Building a 250cc training and Minigp race track

[Shaun Harris]

So if some land had been made availlable to build a race track that would be designed to train young riders on 250cc production bikes as well as to allow Minigp racing, what land mass does the racing world say would be enough, obviously less is cheaper hence the size. It,s main focus is to give kids a place to learn at that is designed for them mainly. I do not want NO dam streight on this track of real length, anyone can go fast in a streight line.


What material would you reccomend for the surface


What company would you reccomend getting pricing from to prep and seal it

There will be a seperate dirt track involved with this.


Nothing more to add, just help me chase my dreams thanks.

[ellipsis]

...apart from a huge amount of money, the biggest and main problem would be consents and the cunts who give them... checking out and having this shit sorted first would be the priority before designing the wiggly bits...

[Shaun Harris]

...apart from a huge amount of money, the biggest and main problem would be consents and the cunts who give them... checking out and having this shit sorted first would be the priority before designing the wiggly bits...






Thanks for the input dad and obviously realise this already buddy, so do you have an idea on size or not?

[ellipsis]

...something similar to the B-Track at Ruapuna...

[Shaun Harris]

...something similar to the B-Track at Ruapuna...




can you show me a link to the B track, I am not sure what that means for there man cheers.

[ellipsis]

http://www.canterburycarclub.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=468

[Shaun Harris]

http://www.canterburycarclub.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=468





Cheers , yep that looks about write to me. Best I get down there and look at it in real time, that always works best for me.

[ellipsis]

...there's plenty of meetings coming up on it...BEARS Winter Series...CAMS class and Buckets...(and day licences, haha)...

[quickbuck]

I would say the 2.2k Taupo track is a pretty good model too.... 13 turns makes it pretty busy.... I think you should be able to make it all fit on 4 acres?

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Shaun Harris]

...there's plenty of meetings coming up on it...BEARS Winter Series...CAMS class and Buckets...(and day licences, haha)...







What is the next date booked for track B please to perhaps come check it out

[Shaun Harris]

I would say the 2.2k Taupo track is a pretty good model too.... 13 turns makes it pretty busy.... I think you should be able to make it all fit on 4 acres?

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.





Agreed man

[ellipsis]

...both CAMS and BEARS next meetings are on the full track...June 15th, rnd 2 BEARS winter series...you can get as many laps in as you want on the practice/hire days which are weekly things...

[Shaun Harris]

...both CAMS and BEARS next meetings are on the full track...June 15th, rnd 2 BEARS winter series...you can get as many laps in as you want on the practice/hire days which are weekly things...




swt. I like the idea of using CH CH for this plan, there are some key people there already to make it happen proffessionaly

[quickbuck]

swt. I like the idea of using CH CH for this plan, there are some key people there already to make it happen proffessionaly




Funny thing.... When the news article came up asking what should be done with all the land nobody wants to build on, my immediate thought was build a track that is totally bike friendly......
Not taking anything away from Ruapuna Park, that is an awesome facility.... Would just be nice to have another modern track......
Of course the old money thing is the first issue. Also the fact that there are only so many punters who would want to use it....

So, Shauns idea of a specific little track especially for smaller bikes has merit. Saves the bucket racers using Carrs Road, if they even do....







Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Kickaha]

Saves the bucket racers using Carrs Road, if they even do....
Not allowed to as it isn't part of the terms of use or consent or some shit like that and the cunting residents know it and made sure we couldn't

[Shaun Harris]

My Brief on this venture after laying the ground work to him via a very good friend of his ( From a Huge USA name) is to create some where that we can safely train youth for the future! we are looking to involve dirt flat track riding into this school as well as safe secure quality living accomadation as well as Home schooling facillities for these youth.

If ya do not try you do not get, the spin off for Kiwi Youth is huge with this.


My pother thread re MODERN NAMED Kiwi racers is a part of this programme

Mimigp bikes and 250 prod bikes will be the main aim of the school

[sil3nt]

A group of people in NY built a training facility. Although it quickly turned into a race track and that pissed the neighbours off http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/report-new-york-safety-track-loses-legal-challenge/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kyovmaO2Uo

[Shaun Harris]

A group of people in NY built a training facility. Although it quickly turned into a race track and that pissed the neighbours off http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/report-new-york-safety-track-loses-legal-challenge/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kyovmaO2Uo








yep that has turned into a major screw up

[Dave-]

Where do you build it though?

As soon as you get out of earshot of civilisation you run the risk of upsetting somebodies tranquillity or pissing off the greens over some stupid rare tree mollusc.

[quickbuck]

Where do you build it though?



As soon as you get out of earshot of civilisation you run the risk of upsetting somebodies tranquillity or pissing off the greens over some stupid rare tree mollusc.




Right smack bang in the middle of the area of Christchurch that nobody wants to build in anymore.....
A bunch of 250's going round and round will be nothing compared to the traffic noise that used to be in that place.....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Shaun Harris]

Where do you build it though?

As soon as you get out of earshot of civilisation you run the risk of upsetting somebodies tranquillity or pissing off the greens over some stupid rare tree mollusc.









Ruapuna already exists with the B course, so need what so ever to build anything track related now. Just now to negotiate with the track direct re fees and time availlable to do this. And no one in there write mind would build a new track on the proven swamp land down town ch ch is! They would have to be crazier than me hahaha

[Dave-]

Right smack bang in the middle of the area of Christchurch that nobody wants to build in anymore.....
A bunch of 250's going round and round will be nothing compared to the traffic noise that used to be in that place.....

Yes, this is true. Though I can't see it happening.


Ruapuna already exists with the B course, so need what so ever to build anything track related now. Just now to negotiate with the track direct re fees and time availlable to do this. And no one in there write mind would build a new track on the proven swamp land down town ch ch is! They would have to be crazier than me hahaha

Ah, so you're no longer planning on building a new facility. Ruapuna B track is the best solution.

[Shaun Harris]

Yes, this is true. Though I can't see it happening.



Ah, so you're no longer planning on building a new facility. Ruapuna B track is the best solution.







was not aware of the options with Ruapuna mate before starting this thread. So NO re building one from scratch now.

[schrodingers cat]

...something similar to the B-Track at Ruapuna...

B track still has the 2nd fastest straight of the track, the single fastest corner and hardest braking zone directly afterwards.
The link from the carousel to the first corner has a strange crest and since it is seldom used it is very dusty and low grip.

A track with the dipper would be a safer section

You can still use Timaru in its original (pre 88?) configuration also

So there you have effectively 3 little tracks within a couple of hours of each other and all with the appropriate licenses/insurances etc etc

[quallman1234]

Bucket Racing on kart tracks in NZ is still alive. Well in the NI anyway. It is good training. We even have awesome elevation change at our one in Wellington.

[richban]

Bucket Racing on kart tracks in NZ is still alive. Well in the NI anyway. It is good training. We even have awesome elevation change at our one in Wellington.

If you want to train young ones. Bring them to Buckets and mentor them there. Plenty of names have come through the ranks and still use it for bike fitness and race craft. It is close fast and really keeps you on your toes. Step from a kart track to a big track and you always wonder why everyone is braking so early. Takes a bit of time to get used to all that open space though. If you want to whip them into shape fast Kart track racing will do it. Then off they go to spend all daddies money on the big tracks.

These guys have a massive spread of classes and disaplins on some cool tracks. I almost moved there so had a good look at these guys. http://www.oregonsuperbikers.com/classes

[Yow Ling]

The biggest problem with Ruapuna is getting a booking especially if you arent MCI, Cams or Bears which are all financial contributers to the track.
B track is only available if the full track is closed, A track or Tri oval can run at the same time as B track. Shrodingers cat wouldnt have a clue about the B track link, its not dusty or anything bad , in fact it is one of the least crashed parts of the track. Full track is available Tuesdays and Fridays price depends on what clubs you belong to.

[Pumba]

So if some land had been made availlable to build a race track that would be designed to train young riders on 250cc production bikes as well as to allow Minigp racing, what land mass does the racing world say would be enough, obviously less is cheaper hence the size. It,s main focus is to give kids a place to learn at that is designed for them mainly. I do not want NO dam streight on this track of real length, anyone can go fast in a streight line.

Ok Shaun, I was involved in the early stages of Colin Dale Park, the "motorsport park" that had been designated by Manaku City Council and the later Auckland Council for noisy unsociable activities. This is where the new Auckland Kart track will be built to replace Mt Wellington and Rosebank Rd.

I was directly part of the consultation with the user groups, and work with the designers in the development of the master plan for the entire site (a 50 hectare piece of land). I then took over the Civil enabling works, primarily the earthworks, roading and stormwater designs for the relevant consents that the council was obtaining prior to handing over the designated areas to each of the user groups.

The Kart club ended up with a 10 hectare site allocation. The wanted 20 hectare to start with. Bear in mind that the goal is to build an international level karting facility. From memory they are going to build a 1200m track with the ability to increase its length to 1600m (or 1800m I cant quite recall). Average track width of 10m. Given that they were buying no land (pepper corn lease to the council) the budget was in the order of $3million.


What material would you reccomend for the surface

You would be stupid to use anything other than Asphaltic Concrete. What mix to use you would need professional advise. Mix 10 is standard for roads, but I know they did use something special at Hampton Downs. No idea what the mix is in Taupo.


What company would you reccomend getting pricing from to prep and seal it

Not enough details to answer the question. But at the very least an invited tender process, at the most public open tender, would be required to get the best price.


There will be a seperate dirt track involved with this.

Oval dirt track? Motocross? Just curious not much to add on this, apart from un-stabilised dirt tracks are starting to run into there own consenting issues due to sediment runnoff. Just something to think about.


Nothing more to add, just help me chase my dreams thanks.

Its a big dream, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the practical engineer realist in me says you better have big pockets or big backers as you will spend (in my opinion) several $100,000 before you even turned dirt.

[Kickaha]

The Kart club ended up with a 10 hectare site allocation. The wanted 20 hectare to start with. Bear in mind that the goal is to build an international level karting facility. From memory they are going to build a 1200m track with the ability to increase its length to 1600m (or 1800m I cant quite recall). Average track width of 10m. Given that they were buying no land (pepper corn lease to the council) the budget was in the order of $3million.
I think 800m is the minimum to run a CIK event so they generally look to make them a minimum of 1 - 1.2 km and I think 1.7km is the maximum and between 7-12m wide

Several years ok we were talking to guy who worked for Fulton Hogan and involved with building Ruapuna, he reckoned close to $1m per kilometre starting from scratch

[jellywrestler]

Several years ok we were talking to guy who worked for Fulton Hogan and involved with building Ruapuna, he reckoned close to $1m per kilometre starting from scratch what about getting one of those 3D printers, they reckon they can make heaps now so if you buy one, get it to make a 3d printer twice it's size, do this ten times then it'll print a track and we're done. don't forget to put a ban on hot dog stands as they're so last century.

[Shaun Harris]

Cheers guys. I have done about all I can with the home work involved in this plan for now from here in New Zealand. The next stage of this is a trip to the USA to sit down with certain people and discuss the rest of it face to face.

[chrisc]

Ok Shaun, I was involved in the early stages of Colin Dale Park, the "motorsport park" that had been designated by Manaku City Council and the later Auckland Council for noisy unsociable activities. This is where the new Auckland Kart track will be built to replace Mt Wellington and Rosebank Rd.

I was directly part of the consultation with the user groups, and work with the designers in the development of the master plan for the entire site (a 50 hectare piece of land). I then took over the Civil enabling works, primarily the earthworks, roading and stormwater designs for the relevant consents that the council was obtaining prior to handing over the designated areas to each of the user groups.

The Kart club ended up with a 10 hectare site allocation. The wanted 20 hectare to start with. Bear in mind that the goal is to build an international level karting facility. From memory they are going to build a 1200m track with the ability to increase its length to 1600m (or 1800m I cant quite recall). Average track width of 10m. Given that they were buying no land (pepper corn lease to the council) the budget was in the order of $3million.

You would be stupid to use anything other than Asphaltic Concrete. What mix to use you would need professional advise. Mix 10 is standard for roads, but I know they did use something special at Hampton Downs. No idea what the mix is in Taupo.

Not enough details to answer the question. But at the very least an invited tender process, at the most public open tender, would be required to get the best price.

Oval dirt track? Motocross? Just curious not much to add on this, apart from un-stabilised dirt tracks are starting to run into there own consenting issues due to sediment runnoff. Just something to think about.

Its a big dream, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the practical engineer realist in me says you better have big pockets or big backers as you will spend (in my opinion) several $100,000 before you even turned dirt.

I remember briefly talking about this in another thread, and maybe a bit at a Tokoroa meet Pumba. I'm unsure if you're aloud to speak of the project much in a public area but are you able to give an update for those interested like me? I haven't actually been out to that area to have a look if there is visible progress. I can't find any recent discussion on it online either. Cheers

[Pumba]

You are just in luck as I have been looking back in the last week over some old project files and have my hard drive sitting right here beside me. I dont have any concerns talking about it now. I left the consultancy that was dealing with the consents, enabling earthworks, stromwater, and roading designs back in December 2012. So bear in mind some of my info may be out of date.

So the Manukau City Council obtained a 50 odd hectare site at 87 Prices Rd.

296487

This site is adjacent to the existing Puhinui Reserve (Horse Facility. Big 3 day event thing here once a year) and under the approach path for the Airport. The land was called Colin Dale park and designated as a "Motorsport Park" back in the early 2000 with a Plan Change in the District Plan.

This was the concept plan at that stage

296488

As you can see the plan was centred around the Kart Club (Mt Wellington is on Council leased land and has been looking for a new home for a while now) and this being the future home of speedway (once the arseholed Western Springs). I think I recall Ivan Mauger being involved in some capacity at this early stage and that was the reason for the long track. Anyway. Oh the other thing you may notice is that a quarter of the site at the headlands was the harbour lost to the local Iwi for a Marae site. A deal that was done at the Mayoral level to get the plan change through.

Back in 2010ish the council advertised for expressions of interest from potential user groups facility. This is about when we became involved. We interviewed each of the groups, figured out what they wanted, and then worked with a landscape architect to develop a master concept plan for the site.

This was a hell of a process because each group wanted at least half the site, and we had to leave room for the speedway even though we had no one to talk to because the no body wanted to be seen to be involved as it would compromise their position at western springs.

Anyway lots of backwards and forwards and council bureaucracy and not understanding what each of the groups actual wanted and grossly underestimating the cost and we ended up with this Master Plan.

296489

(Note speedway had fallen by the wayside at this point)

In tandem with all this I was doing the engineering designs and consenting packages. I think we were up to about 150,000m3 of earthworks for the site with my final design.

Last I heard was that the earthworks consent for the enabling earthworks was issued in February/March 2013. So I would have expected there to be some movement of dirt in the last earthworks season.

But really after this point I don't know. The company I was with had grossly underestimated the work involved in the project and was looking to cut it loose. Add to that the fact they made most of the people left that were involved in the project redundant about the same time as the consent came through I lost most of my contacts at that particular company (well the ones that would tell me ALL the details anyway).

If anyone is out and around that area and wants to have a look at the site (I keep meaning to but the few times I have been back to Auckland since leaving doesn't take me in that direction) and tell us what it looks like (maybe some photos?) now it would probably give us a good idea what stage it is at.

[chrisc]

You can never make everyone happy, that sounds like some painful job you there for a while! Thanks for the low down.
I'm definitely keen to see if anything has happened, anyone live close by?

[Shaun Harris]

Be great to find out an update regarding this motorsports park

[kiwi cowboy]

...both CAMS and BEARS next meetings are on the full track...June 15th, rnd 2 BEARS winter series...you can get as many laps in as you want on the practice/hire days which are weekly things...

Is the Cams meet on the 10th and bears on the 11th may not on?????????:bleh:

[ellipsis]

...going by the CMI calendar BEARS Rnd 1 is the 11th...day after CAMS AGM meeting...

[scott411]

Be great to find out an update regarding this motorsports park

it got put on the back burner when the supercity was formed, although I know the person with the rights to the motocross side of it, and there is still some talk about it, I think the offroaders held a race meeting there,

on our orginal question, about 10 years ago we talked to the Auckland Kart Club about moving out to Harrisville to be with the MX track, but the land was unsuitable, I know they have been trying to replace Mt Wellington for a while,