White Poppies?

[Oscar]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/9963190/Editorial-Peace-poppy-not-welcome

I tend to agree with the editorial:


To pin a red poppy on one's lapel is to convey an understanding for what our forebears gave and the sentiments, such as respect, regret, hope and despair, that have come to define our sense of nationalism.

To be offered a white poppy as well, as some sort of simplistic counterpoint in the name of "peace", particularly in April, is redundant and unwelcome


Maybe the White Poppy people should find another date.

[mashman]

Disagree. Those who fought for my freedoms did so to bring about peace. Perhaps they should make a red and white poppy as in no way do I see it detracting anything away from those who fought.

[ellipsis]

...have to agree with OP on this...there are another 11 months in the year...why April...

[Oscar]

Disagree. Those who fought for my freedoms did so to bring about peace. Perhaps they should make a red and white poppy as in no way do I see it detracting anything away from those who fought.

What a surprise.

ANZAC day is a remembrance.
White Poppy day is about peace.
Both worthy, but not quite the same. Why can't the two be kept separate?

[rustyrobot]

ANZAC day is about a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For some people it's remembrance, for some it's a chance to score a few political points, for some it's about glorification of the military, for some it's about the madness of war.

I don't see how white poppies detract from people wearing red, or why it needs to be seen as somehow offensive. I find it much more offensive to hear grandstanding from politicians, who are the same sort of people that sent 18,000 New Zealanders to die needlessly in WW1.

Wear red, wear white, remember who will send who to die, and who won't be the ones to fight.

[mashman]

What a surprise.

ANZAC day is a remembrance.
White Poppy day is about peace.
Both worthy, but not quite the same. Why can't the two be kept separate?

I'm not saying that they can't be kept separate... but I don't see the point. The red poppy is used for Remembrance Day. Why doesn't ANZAC Day have a different colour? They all fought for peace.

[buggerit]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/9963190/Editorial-Peace-poppy-not-welcome

I tend to agree with the editorial:



Maybe the White Poppy people should find another date.

plus 1, another time and a white ribbon might be more appropriate.
The poppies are red because that is the colour that the feild poppies were that grew in many of the ww1 battlefields where our forefathers
spilt their blood.

[Oscar]

I'm not saying that they can't be kept separate... but I don't see the point. The red poppy is used for Remembrance Day. Why doesn't ANZAC Day have a different colour? They all fought for peace.

Who says they fought for peace?
They fought for all sorts of reasons; adventure, freedom, patrotism, to keep their family safe, nationalism, imperialism, peer pressure...

None of us have a right to judge them.

[SMOKEU]

Who cares what colour the poppies are? As long as they're proper opium poppies; Papaver somniferum, then that's what really counts.

[caseye]

OK, so of all those who have posted in this thread, please step forward all those who have served in their countries armed services.
Right then, a red poppy IS for ANZAC day.
A white, apologist flower is neither for peace or sacrifice but about being a bunch of do gooders trying to rewrite history, the way they'd like to see it.
Just my take on things, my poppy will always be red and God help the turkey who shows up on parade with anything remotely white on either side of their chest.

[mashman]

Who says they fought for peace?
They fought for all sorts of reasons; adventure, freedom, patrotism, to keep their family safe, nationalism, imperialism, peer pressure...

None of us have a right to judge them.

My Grandad....

You're right and I wasn't.

[willytheekid]

plus 1, another time and a white ribbon might be more appropriate.
The poppies are red because that is the colour that the feild poppies were that grew in many of the ww1 battlefields where our forefathers
spilt their blood.

This! +1

...and the only one on here to use the historical facts surrounding the RED! poppies

"In Flanders fields"

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Source- http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/anzac-day/poppies

...Least we forget

(And I TOTALLY agree...there are another 11 months in the year to choose...and a shit load of other flowers that could also be choosen...they are clearly piggybacking ANZAC day...nothing to do with "peace"...just shameful marketing!)

[Mo NZ]

"The persistence of the "peace poppy" brigade to piggyback on Anzac commemorations shows both a lack of respect and understanding for New Zealand's most hallowed day".

[frogfeaturesFZR]

"The persistence of the "peace poppy" brigade to piggyback on Anzac commemorations shows both a lack of respect and understanding for New Zealand's most hallowed day".

Agreed....

[MD]

"The persistence of the "peace poppy" brigade to piggyback on Anzac commemorations shows both a lack of respect and understanding for New Zealand's most hallowed day".

The same approach was used to hijack and corrupt the meaning of the word marriage. Makes me wonder if the same sort of people hang out in the peace brigade?

[Mo NZ]

OK, so of all those who have posted in this thread, please step forward all those who have served in their countries armed services.
Right then, a red poppy IS for ANZAC day.
A white, apologist flower is neither for peace or sacrifice but about being a bunch of do gooders trying to rewrite history, the way they'd like to see it.
Just my take on things, my poppy will always be red and God help the turkey who shows up on parade with anything remotely white on either side of their chest.

3rd gen count??

[bogan]

+1 fwiw


The same approach was used to hijack and corrupt the meaning of the word marriage. Makes me wonder if the same sort of people hang out in the peace brigade?

What, Women? Probably...

[caseye]

3rd gen count??

If you feel it, then Absolutely.

[FJRider]

Disagree. Those who fought for my freedoms did so to bring about peace. Perhaps they should make a red and white poppy as in no way do I see it detracting anything away from those who fought.

It's not about "Fight for freedoms"

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


The meaning is to each ... personal ... and to each individual ... their own.

No right (or wrong) interpretation.

But worthy of each to give thought on it ...

[awa355]

This! +1


"In Flanders fields"[/B]

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.




There is another poem that was written by a Moina Michael November 1918 as a tribute to the original poem.

" We shall keep the faith ".

Oh! you who sleep in Flanders Fields,
Sleep sweet - to rise anew!
We caught the torch you threw
And holding high, we keep the Faith
With All who died.

We cherish, too, the poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led;
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies,
But lends a lustre to the red
Of the flower that blooms above the dead
In Flanders Fields.

And now the Torch and Poppy Red
We wear in honor of our dead.
Fear not that ye have died for naught;
We'll teach the lesson that ye wrought
In Flanders Fields.

[mashman]

It's not about "Fight for freedoms"

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


The meaning is to each ... personal ... and to each individual ... their own.

No right (or wrong) interpretation.

But worthy of each to give thought on it ...

It does indeed. Perhaps if the peace brigade were listened to more often, instead of the war mongers, we wouldn't have as many fatherless children and childrenless fathers.

[bogan]

It does indeed. Perhaps if the peace brigade were listened to more often, instead of the war mongers, we wouldn't have as many fatherless children and childrenless fathers.

Perhaps if they have a message worth delivering, they could do so on many of the other 364 days a year instead of trying to change the meaning of our day of remembrance for those brave souls who gave their lives in circumstances completely beyond our comprehension, but not beyond our profound respect.

[Oscar]

It does indeed. Perhaps if the peace brigade were listened to more often, instead of the war mongers, we wouldn't have as many fatherless children and childrenless fathers.

What rubbish.
The sad fact about human nature is that sometimes (Hitler, Saddam, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc) true evil appears and has to be eliminated.
Go to Tehran and babble about freedom and peace.
See how long you last.

[mashman]

Perhaps if they have a message worth delivering, they could do so on many of the other 364 days a year instead of trying to change the meaning of our day of remembrance for those brave souls who gave their lives in circumstances completely beyond our comprehension, but not beyond our profound respect.

I completely take your point... however I don't see that the meaning of the day is being changed or hijacked or anything at all, and I don't see it as being disrespectful to those who fought and those who died to be wishing and displaying a desire for peace on the same day. They kind of go hand in hand for me.

[Akzle]

fuken. Dont care what color, as long as i can keep riding my unicorn along the hooferdoo dar dae.

[scumdog]

Who cares what colour the poppies are? As long as they're proper opium poppies; Papaver somniferum, then that's what really counts.

C'mon, you're not 12 anymore...

[FJRider]

Who cares what colour the poppies are? As long as they're proper opium poppies; Papaver somniferum, then that's what really counts.

Plenty care ... and for your interest ... the "Flanders Poppy' is NOT that variety ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_rhoeas

[oldrider]

Neither are compulsary purchases or donations (Whatever you prefer to call it) and people are free to participate! (or not)

Motorcycle rallies are often doubled up on the same weekends and while some of us get our feathers ruffled over it they soon sort themselves out!

Red poppy day has had quite a bit of unsolicited advertising as a result of the white poppy initiative, so it's not all bad!

Just another fund raiser ... as the Yoda said Do or do not ... sorted! :rolleyes:

[SMOKEU]

C'mon, you're not 12 anymore...

Exactly, now I'm old enough to try the good drugs!

[imdying]

Just another fund raiserThat is the reality. All the other drivel is just in peoples minds.

[Katman]

The poppies are red because that is the colour that the feild poppies were that grew in many of the ww1 battlefields where our forefathers
spilt their blood.

I think you'll find that white poppies grow there as well.

I imagine red was simply chosen, in preference to white, as a symbol of the blood that was shed.

I think people are getting too hung up on this issue.

[buggerit]

I think you'll find that white poppies grow there as well.

I imagine red was simply chosen, in preference to white, as a symbol of the blood that was shed.

I think people are getting too hung up on this issue.

I think you will find you are wrong.

[Katman]

I think you will find you are wrong.

I'm going to call this a field in Flanders.

<img src="http://www.kingsseeds.co.nz/site/kingseeds/images/Blog_photos/Poppies/red%20and%20white%20poppies.jpg"/>

[buggerit]

papaver rhoeas
common names, corn poppy,corn rose, feild poppy, FLANDERS poppy, RED poppy, RED weed, coquelicot

[Murray]

They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them.

We will remember them!!

Enough said

[puddytat]

I reckon Rainbow coloured ones'd be the shizz....

[SPman]

Disagree. Those who fought for my freedoms did so to bring about peace. Perhaps they should make a red and white poppy as in no way do I see it detracting anything away from those who fought.

Those who fought for my freedoms were just fucking happy to be back in one piece (some of them). Some of those who didn't return weren't too happy to be there and, from 1917 on, were discouraging friends and relations from joining up and going (I have the letters and diaries).

Official days and poppies (who cares what f*cking colour they are) are all very nice, and appeal to the colonel blimps, but, to those that really care, they are always quietly remembered.

(I got that from my Grandmother, who lost her fiance, her favourite brother, and 2 close friends within 3 days!)

[FJRider]

I think you'll find that white poppies grow there as well.

Not documented in any historical records I've found ...

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/anzac-day/poppies


I imagine red was simply chosen, in preference to white, as a symbol of the blood that was shed.

You have no imagination ... you merely guessed ... and guessed WRONG. The link I included in this post refers to them being a symbol of regeneration ... not blood shed.


I think people are getting too hung up on this issue.

Many have valid personal reasons to be "Hung up on this issue" ... and your opinion carries no weight to convince them otherwise.

[mashman]

Those who fought for my freedoms were just fucking happy to be back in one piece (some of them). Some of those who didn't return weren't too happy to be there and, from 1917 on, were discouraging friends and relations from joining up and going (I have the letters and diaries).

Official days and poppies (who cares what f*cking colour they are) are all very nice, and appeal to the colonel blimps, but, to those that really care, they are always quietly remembered.

(I got that from my Grandmother, who lost her fiance, her favourite brother, and 2 close friends within 3 days!)

Of that I have no doubt. My Grandad (WWII) never spoke about it much and usually brushed it off with, "I had to come back to your Grandmother or she'd have killed me" (they married the day before he shipped out). I know he lost many friends and I know he wanted rid of the tattoo he carried as a reminder.

Totally agree, we remember them how we with to remember them. My Grandad fought for peace and I'm damned sure he didn't enjoy it in the slightest, so that's what it means to me.

[Katman]

Not documented in any historical records I've found ...

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/anzac-day/poppies


Does it say anywhere in there that white poppies don't grow in Flanders?

Other than that - go fuck yourself.

[FJRider]

Does it say anywhere in there that white poppies don't grow in Flanders?

Other than that - go fuck yourself.

You made the suggestion they did ... you provide the proof they did.

And ... I might suggest you keep your attentions on your own sex life. Whatever that pertains to ... and whatever that includes ...


Apart from that ... have a nice day ..

[SPman]

OK, so of all those who have posted in this thread, please step forward all those who have served in their countries armed services.
.
Guilty as charged!

[Katman]

You made the suggestion they did ... you provide the proof they did.


I have a large bookshelf overflowing with books - easily 90% of them a relating specifically to New Zealand's involvement in war. Unfortunately none of them tells me if white poppies grow in Flanders.

Doesn't lessen the validity of my opinion so you can still fuck yourself.

[FJRider]

I have a large bookshelf overflowing with books - easily 90% of them a relating specifically to New Zealand's involvement in war. Unfortunately none of them tells me if white poppies grow in Flanders.

Doesn't lessen the validity of my opinion so you can still fuck yourself.

It won't be the first time you've made statements ... without proof to back them up.

Our opinion of your opinions ... are well documented in these forums. And your current effort doesn't lessen their validity one iota ...



But have a nice day anyway ...

[Katman]

Our opinion of your opinions ... are well documented in these forums. And your current effort doesn't lessen their validity one iota ...


I'm just pleased to be still able to offer them.

[The Reibz]

I love Anzac day on KB. Another thread of shit slinging just like last year!
Just go buy your poppies and support your local RSA, you can even donate with your credit card online this year. Least we forget
First jug will have disappeared down my throat by the end of dawn service

[Katman]

First jug will have disappeared down my throat by the end of dawn service

Good to see it's such a special day for you.

[FJRider]

I'm just pleased to be still able to offer them.

Make the most of the opportunities to do such ... and our opinions of such will also be offered ..

Have a great day ...

[mashman]

My wife was wished Happy ANZAC Day twice today :facepalm:

[Murray]

Mr Katman I suggest you do a google search IMAGES of flanders field count the white poppies you miserable bastard

[caseye]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murray again.
Love your work mate.
And hey, say what you really mean.

[puddytat]

OK, so of all those who have posted in this thread, please step forward all those who have served in their countries armed services.
.

Yep...I have.

[Waihou Thumper]

Yep...I have.

Ditto! I could have, would have? didn't have a choice...

Let's just remember the 2200 odd that never returned huh!
Many were farmers, farm hands and young blokes, like what we used to be once....not the modern Country Calendar blokes..
I bet if the choice was there and we had to defend our rights, most would be running away in this day and age.

Is there Facebook or twitter? Oh, I want a selfie...

The guys had it tough, the hiking up to Chanuk Bair, the conditions and the sheer hell of the fighting...
I am glad I live in a different age...

Let me ask yourselves one question..

Under fire, and in the conditions of WW I and WW II, how would you behave?
Honestly?

[mashman]

Under fire, and in the conditions of WW I and WW II, how would you behave?
Honestly?


Honestly, I would have to be there to know.

I saw the aftermath of the last Balkans war, saw the kids without parents, saw the loss and destruction and highly doubt that I would get involved in war unless there was a seriously compelling reason to do so. It's seems that war in this day and age is politically motivated and I do wonder how many wars have been similar from the past... either way, we should have learned our lesson by now.

Lest we forget. R.I.P.