Come to New Zealand and die

[gammaguy]

Is this the way to treat tourism in NZ?

Take a group of people up in a Hot Air Balloon,who rightfully expect to be treated with care and dilligence and return to earth safely.

Instead it turns out the pilot was a habitual drug user...just the sort we want with our lives in his hands right?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10035123/Balloon-crash-inquest-under-way



Family members saw a flash of light and a crack as the basket of a hot air balloon hit 33,000 volt power lines and began to burn, the daughter of two of the victims has told an inquest.

The four day Coroner's inquest began today into the deaths of the pilot and 10 passengers of the hot air balloon which crashed into a paddock near the town of Carterton about 7.30am on January 7 2012.

Valerie Zillah Bennett, 70, Diana Madge Cox, 63, Howard Cox, 71, Ann Lynette Dean, 70, Desmond Athol Dean, 65, Denise Dellabarca, 58, Belinda Elisabeth Harter, 49, Stephen Robert Hopkirk, 50, Johannes Christoffel Jordaan known as Chrisjan, 21, and Alexis Victoria Still, 19, all died in the crash.

The pilot was Lance Robert Hopping, 53. He was found to have levels of THC - an active ingredient in cannabis - of two micrograms per litre of blood.

Police later found he had been a long term user of cannabis.

The daughter of Ann and Desmond Dean, Bronwyn Brewster went with her daughter Aimee to the Paua Shell Factory on the morning of the balloon ride to watch them take off.

She said Hopping talked about flight procedures and where they were going. She remembered seeing Hopping smoking but did not know what he was smoking.

Brewster said she followed the balloon with the ground crew after it took off. There was little wind and the balloon was not moving much.

When they got to Somerset Road they thought the balloon was going to land.

Brewster said she saw the basket hit the powerlines,

"There was a flash of light then a crack," she said.

The power cable got caught up on the basket and she could see the basket burning.

She said she saw someone come out of the basket and thought it was a girl with blonde hair.

"I watched in disbelief as it started burning,"

She described screaming and yelling as the basket and balloon burned then plummet to the ground.

Detective Inspector Sean Hansen began giving evidence today in the four-day inquest into the deaths of the pilot and passengers of the hot air balloon.

Hansen said the fire began in the balloon's basket after it hit 33,000-volt power lines. After the fuel cylinder ruptured, he said Alexis Still and Chrisjan Jordaan jumped from about 20 metres off the ground, dying from their injuries.

The balloon then rose, to about 110 to 150 metres from the ground, before the envelope caught fire and it fell to the ground.

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Hansen said the balloon had undergone a test for airworthiness but it was later found the test for the envelope was wrongly done.

Hopping's last medical certificate had expired on November 25 the year before and he had not made an appointment for another.

He had filled in forms that said he did not use illegal substances. He was not known to have any medical conditions.

Hopping was rated to fly balloons and helicopters, with over 1060 hours of balloon flights.

He had a previous brush with powerlines during a balloon air show and had discussed with others deflating the balloon if it happened again.

Coroner Peter Ryan began the inquest by addressing the families gathered, saying he would not be going over the factual evidence that was outlined in the TAIC reports which he accepted as the basic factual background.

He told the families he had been at the scene the day after the crash and seen for himself the tragedy and the international protocols being undertaken to identify the victims.

He said he was satisfied with the standards of the identification which was greater than that required by the coronial process.

Coroner Ryan said the crash was unsurvivable and every one of the victims had died as a result of the crash or the injuries they received in the case of the two passengers that jumped shortly before the crash.

He told the families that the inquest was not seeking to lay blame or to confirm criminal or civil liability but to seek to see how such a tragedy could be prevented from happening again.

[The Reibz]

Fuck wasn't this like 2 years ago?

Strong copy and paste skills too brother

[bogan]

I think I see where this one is heading...

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/fowjkWn.gif" />

[Akzle]

soooooo. habitual drug user who had been doing it for how many years with no incidents?

just curious. how many people who injure themselves are habitual drug users? (jewtube "epic fail")
oh, that's right. people fuck up.

[SMOKEU]

Being a professional pilot, if he was too baked then I'm sure he wouldn't have flown.

Many other people who we trust our lives with are habitual drug users as well, like people who drink alcohol and then drive afterward, or prescription junkies like Ed.

[george formby]

Is this the way to treat tourism in NZ?



Broaden your perspective.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/11/hot-air-balloon-crash-virginia-university-victims

[mashman]

A scapegoat for the plebs. Accidents happen.

[scumdog]

I bet if he had been drinking booze some of the above comments would be quite different..;)

[SMOKEU]

I bet if he had been drinking booze some of the above comments would be quite different..;)

Alcohol tends to fuck people up a whole lot more than cannabis, and alcohol does significantly lower one's inhibitions, in stark contrast to pot.

[Drew]

Alcohol tends to fuck people up a whole lot more than cannabis, and alcohol does significantly lower one's inhibitions, in stark contrast to pot.

Don't be fucking stupid. What a crock of shit!

The guy had no right to take recreational mind altering drugs and endanger the lives of others!

[ellipsis]

...visit Cardiff and Dai...

[White trash]

Alcohol tends to fuck people up a whole lot more than cannabis,

I dispute this strongly. I can quite easily and safely operate a vehicle and (possibly) a hot air balloon after a couple of pints. Half a joint though, I'm a blithering fucken idiot.

[Katman]

The guy had no right to take recreational mind altering drugs and endanger the lives of others!

Well I suppose it comes down to how long it had been since he lasted smoked it.

If the smoking he was seen to be doing prior to the flight was Cannabis then he would deserve all the condemnation that would be levelled at him.

It doesn't appear that we'll ever know whether that's the case though and as has been mentioned many times in other threads, the presence of THC in one's system doesn't necessarily indicate impairment.

[SMOKEU]

Don't be fucking stupid. What a crock of shit!

The guy had no right to take recreational mind altering drugs and endanger the lives of others!

You're an idiot with no sense of reality if you honestly believe that first sentence. Secondly, people legally operate motor vehicles on public roads every day under the influence of prescription drugs and/or alcohol. How's that any different?


I dispute this strongly. I can quite easily and safely operate a vehicle and (possibly) a hot air balloon after a couple of pints. Half a joint though, I'm a blithering fucken idiot.

A regular pot smoker can handle it fairly well. You may think you can safely do all sorts of things after consuming alcohol, as being under the influence of alcohol can distort the user's sense of reality up to the point that they don't feel intoxicated. Cannabis does the exact opposite, and makes the user more careful than otherwise.

[Swoop]

Quite frankly waiting to see what the finding of the coroner's court will be, is of more interest.

An "aircraft" that you have fuck-all control over, apart from UP and DOWN, is naturally hazardous. Buggered if I'd get in one.

[Berries]

So the guy had THC in his blood and was a habitual user. I didn't see anything in the story that linked that particular factoid to the actual incident. Was he impaired is the question. I doubt very much that he would have got to 1,000 flight hours if he was a habitual user who habitually flew when wasted. Word does tend to get around.

As sad as a crash like this is, I think the OP might have jumped to a conclusion a bit quickly.

[Kickaha]

Half a joint though, I'm a blithering fucken idiot.
You're a blithering fucken idiot before you smoke or drink anything

[Grumph]

Quite frankly waiting to see what the finding of the coroner's court will be, is of more interest.

An "aircraft" that you have fuck-all control over, apart from UP and DOWN, is naturally hazardous. Buggered if I'd get in one.

Quite agree...the bloody things come over us frequently. early AM, you hear the roar of the burners, duck out for a look and there's twenty jap bloody tourists looking at you in your PJ's from about 100 meters up....Give them the cheery fingers and back into the warm...

i'm confidently expecting one to get caught in our trees one day soon - and knowing who owns the local setup, I'll be sueing for plenty....

[skippa1]

You're an idiot with no sense of reality if you honestly believe that first sentence. Secondly, people legally operate motor vehicles on public roads every day under the influence of prescription drugs and/or alcohol. How's that any different?

Quite different but still the same. Impairment is impairment. I'm no happier with those on prescription drugs and/or alcohol on the road. You would be a retard to be happy with that.
the difference of course is that your idiots on the road impaired are not selling commercial transport......big fucken difference


A regular pot smoker can handle it fairly well. You may think you can safely do all sorts of things after consuming alcohol, as being under the influence of alcohol can distort the user's sense of reality up to the point that they don't feel intoxicated. Cannabis does the exact opposite, and makes the user more careful than otherwise.
Fuck me Charlie......spoken like a true pot smoker....."I can concentrate so much more".....
sorry, thats fucken bullshit. It's what you think just like your pisshead thinks he's safe. I've been a hard out smoker making those same fucked up statements, also given up and watched this concentration or "careful" behaviour.......fucken stoners staring into space

[jellywrestler]

I Half a joint though, I'm a blithering fucken idiot.

which half Jimmy, the first or the second?

[tigertim20]

Is this the way to treat tourism in NZ?

Take a group of people up in a Hot Air Balloon,who rightfully expect to be treated with care and dilligence and return to earth safely.

Instead it turns out the pilot was a habitual drug user...just the sort we want with our lives in his hands right?

.

pretty isolated incident.

Im far more concerned about the tourists that come here and kill our citizens with their reckless disregard for our road rules - a far more common occurrence than balloon accidents.

[Bikemad]

pretty isolated incident.

Im far more concerned about the tourists that come here and kill our citizens with their reckless disregard for our road rules - a far more common occurrence than balloon accidents.

in a nutshell...............

[Madness]

I read somewhere the operator had recently received a blood transfusion.

[ellipsis]

...the most dangerous of all the tourist industries here, are the ones that hire vehicles to any person, with no regard to credentials that would allow them to operate a vehicle here, and set them forth amongst us...it's bad enough dodging dodgy locals...

[Akzle]

Fuck me Charlie......spoken like a true pot smoker....."I can concentrate so much more".....
sorry, thats fucken bullshit. It's what you think just like your pisshead thinks he's safe. I've been a hard out smoker making those same fucked up statements, also given up and watched this concentration or "careful" behaviour.......fucken stoners staring into space

sorry tim. You speak in ignorance.
Drugs affect everyone differently. I could function on a cocktail that would comatose young smokey. Similarly, eds daily constitutional would have me choosing not to operate machinery.
Ive met a spectrum of users, of all vices. Some for better, some for worse. I would and do trust (certain) drug users to transport me, operate >20 tonnes of machinery around me, use firearms, ride motorbikes, etcetera. All that "dangerous" shit that requires "more than fuckwit" levels of awareness.

I shit every time i drive in auckland. Those fuckwits drive in to each other EVERY DAY. no medication required.

[Ulsterkiwi]

sorry tim. You speak in ignorance.
Drugs affect everyone differently. I could function on a cocktail that would comatose young smokey. Similarly, eds daily constitutional would have me choosing not to operate machinery.
Ive met a spectrum of users, of all vices. Some for better, some for worse. I would and do trust (certain) drug users to transport me, operate >20 tonnes of machinery around me, use firearms, ride motorbikes, etcetera. All that "dangerous" shit that requires "more than fuckwit" levels of awareness.

I shit every time i drive in auckland. Those fuckwits drive in to each other EVERY DAY. no medication required.

much as it pains me, da master of ironing is correct.

My darling wife can pop some prescription drugs with little or no effect but a half measure of whiskey and she can be drunk and hungover (including all the grumpy shit) all the space of 30 minutes. Its called METABOLISM. Fast or slow is just part of it. The nature of your stomach acid, the enzymes in your intestinal and pancreatic fluid and the flora in your large intestine all play their part. To say nothing of your blood chemistry and how the old liver and kidneys are playing up. Each and every one of us is different.
The guidelines are for average Joe on an average day, guess what, you are all special cases :yawn:

[skippa1]

sorry tim. You speak in ignorance.
Drugs affect everyone differently. I could function on a cocktail that would comatose young smokey. Similarly, eds daily constitutional would have me choosing not to operate machinery.
Ive met a spectrum of users, of all vices. Some for better, some for worse. I would and do trust (certain) drug users to transport me, operate >20 tonnes of machinery around me, use firearms, ride motorbikes, etcetera. All that "dangerous" shit that requires "more than fuckwit" levels of awareness.

I shit every time i drive in auckland. Those fuckwits drive in to each other EVERY DAY. no medication required.
Sorry Fred, there's a world of difference between "functioning" and satisfactorily performing a task

a pissed redneck can pull a trigger with little or no awareness....not much of a measure

i wouldn't get in a ballon with Ed either......more from the yawn factor, but that's another story

[MVnut]

There is a big difference between people who choose to use a recreational drug (which I don't actually agree with unless it is for medical reasons) and those who then cause a 'problem' for others. If this happened in PNG the pilot's family would be chopped up or burnt alive. I know what I would do if he killed my family flying a balloon while on drugs. Just as well he died also, although little consequence for the families of his unfortunate passengers

[oneblackflag]

much as it pains me, da master of ironing is correct.

My darling wife can pop some prescription drugs with little or no effect but a half measure of whiskey and she can be drunk and hungover (including all the grumpy shit) all the space of 30 minutes. Its called METABOLISM. Fast or slow is just part of it. The nature of your stomach acid, the enzymes in your intestinal and pancreatic fluid and the flora in your large intestine all play their part. To say nothing of your blood chemistry and how the old liver and kidneys are playing up. Each and every one of us is different.
The guidelines are for average Joe on an average day, guess what, you are all special cases :yawn:

+1 being a Tramadol junkie like Ed, It simply has no effect on me other than feeling like utter shit when I have none; = far safer driving with me on the drug. Could it possibly be the same for a chronic pot smoker, apart from the addiction.

[Akzle]

Could it possibly be the same for a chronic pot smoker, apart from the addiction.

your opiate addiction?

[Akzle]

Sorry Fred, there's a world of difference between "functioning" and satisfactorily performing a task

a pissed redneck can pull a trigger with little or no awareness....not much of a measure

i wouldn't get in a ballon with Ed either......more from the yawn factor, but that's another story

come on bazza, i didnt even use the word "functioning". And my neck is red because i spend my time outdoors in the sun.
Fuken love vitamin d and melanoma.
Jesus gives you wings...

[Berries]

(which I don't actually agree with)
No shit.





tfc

[Akzle]

I read somewhere the operator had recently received a blood transfusion.

bet it came from a fuken woman. Dem bitches cant drive for shit.

[Madness]

bet it came from a fuken woman. Dem bitches cant drive for shit.

Probably a Catholic Asian woman who had a history of abortion and multiple tattoos.

[oneblackflag]

your opiate addiction?

If you're a 'cronic' pot smoker... I'm asking wouldn't you just feel normal after a sesh? Rather than impaired.

[MVnut]

No shit.





tfc

and your point is ???:tugger:

[Akzle]

If you're a 'cronic' pot smoker... I'm asking wouldn't you just feel normal after a sesh? Rather than impaired.

normal? Wtf is normal?
Smoking cannabis has several chief effects on me, analgesia, increase energy levels, reduced tobacco and alcohol use, turns down the voices, and improves my ocular wellbeing.
So no, i feel different, but is how i feel otherwise ever normal? Judging by my posts on kb. No, probably not.
As to impairment, certainly not.
But hey, i smoke pot, so who am i to estimate myself.

[Drew]

But hey, i smoke pot, so who am i to estimate myself.Therein lies the crux of the problem.

The comparitive lab testing done with weed was so long ago, that no one is still alive to remember the actual results.

Bottom line, I will never believe it doesn't impare judgement and reactive times.

[skippa1]

sorry tim. You speak in ignorance.
Drugs affect everyone differently. I could function on a cocktail that would comatose young smokey. .


come on bazza, i didnt even use the word "functioning". And my neck is red because i spend my time outdoors in the sun.
Fuken love vitamin d and melanoma.
Jesus gives you wings...
Get off the grass Bruce (see what I did there) ........

[skippa1]

Therein lies the crux of the problem.

The comparitive lab testing done with weed was so long ago, that no one is still alive to remember the actual results.

Bottom line, I will never believe it doesn't impare judgement and reactive times.
Sums it up.........

[Berries]

and your point is ???:tugger:
That because you don't agree with something you jump to the same conclusion as the OP with no evidence whatsoever as far as I can tell. And then throw in irrelevant shit about PNG.

Fuck, I imagine a good proportion of the working population are habitual users. So what? Unless you are under the influence of it does it matter?

[Banditbandit]

normal? Wtf is normal?
Smoking cannabis has several chief effects on me, analgesia, increase energy levels, reduced tobacco and alcohol use, turns down the voices, and improves my ocular wellbeing.
So no, i feel different, but is how i feel otherwise ever normal? Judging by my posts on kb. No, probably not.
As to impairment, certainly not.
But hey, i smoke pot, so who am i to estimate myself.

Yeah - as a long time habitual smoker (I'll admit to addict if you need me to) that about sums it all up ... I don't have increased energy levels - I'm more a "chill out" smoker ... I like to cruise out to good music, a book, maybe a vid ... I never use a computer when I'm wasted ..


Therein lies the crux of the problem.

The comparitive lab testing done with weed was so long ago, that no one is still alive to remember the actual results.

Bottom line, I will never believe it doesn't impare judgement and reactive times.

And yeah - it does affect my judgement and reaction times .. I NEVER smoke a ride ... I hate it - I have to concentrate too hard and it spoils the smoke ... and I worry about how I'm riding ... so I haven't smoked and ridden fro about 10 years (maybe more ...) I had to do it then to get the bike a short distance (about 2 ks) - hated it and have never repeated the experience ...

Smoking does change things - that's the whole fucking point !!!

PS - dumb fucking balloon operator .. he should NEVER have flown stoned ... in one of those you only have to fuck up once ... Gravity Sucks ... and he fucked up ...

[Katman]

PS - dumb fucking balloon operator .. he should NEVER have flown stoned ... in one of those you only have to fuck up once ... Gravity Sucks ... and he fucked up ...

Who says he was stoned?

[Banditbandit]

Who says he was stoned?

The toxicology report indicates he had smoked within a few hours of the flight - he was stoned !!!

[Katman]

The toxicology report indicates he had smoked within a few hours of the flight

Have you got a link to that? I must have missed it.

[Banditbandit]

Have you got a link to that? I must have missed it.


Toxicology analysis of the balloon pilot after the accident tested positive for tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), suggesting he may have been under the influence of cannabis at the time of the crash, which ultimately lead to the error of judgement.

The pilot was Lance Robert Hopping, 53. He was found to have levels of THC - an active ingredient in cannabis - of two micrograms per litre of blood.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Carterton_hot_air_balloon_crash



A report quoted in court found the level of cannabis in Mr Hopper's blood was consistent with a person smoking within five hours of the flight.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/first-day-inquest-into-carterton-balloon-crash-wraps-up-5969010

[blue rider]

I dispute this strongly. I can quite easily and safely operate a vehicle and (possibly) a hot air balloon after a couple of pints. Half a joint though, I'm a blithering fucken idiot.

and this is precisely the assumption that usually gets innocent bystanders, pillions or passengers killed, cause when push comes to shove....any and all drugs have some effect on our nervous system and our reaction time.

best is to be sober when operating a vehicle and get shitfaced when at home :)

[Katman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Carterton_hot_air_balloon_crash




http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/first-day-inquest-into-carterton-balloon-crash-wraps-up-5969010

Not exactly what I would call conclusive evidence.

I'm sure if the police were confident that the pilot was impaired at the time they would have come out and said so.

[Banditbandit]

Not exactly what I would call conclusive evidence.

I'm sure if the police were confident that the pilot was impaired at the time they would have come out and said so.

Hmm .. it's a bit of a judgement call. And I don't believe the police are qualified to make that call.

I do know that if I had smoked a joint within five hours I would still be impaired by the THC ... Now the hard core like Akzle may well argue - my experience is that I would still be stoned five hours after smoking a joint (especially if I smoked it alone - i.e. all of it myself).

And if the police did come out and say that there would be a huge scream of "prove it" from the doubters...

You can make your own judgement - I call it he was stoned and fucked up ..

[Katman]

Hmm .. it's a bit of a judgement call. And I don't believe the police are qualified to make that call.

I do know that if I had smoked a joint within five hours I would still be impaired by the THC ... Now the hard core like Akzle may well argue - my experience is that I would still be stoned five hours after smoking a joint (especially if I smoked it alone - i.e. all of it myself).

And if the police did come out and say that there would be a huge scream of "prove it" from the doubters...

You can make your own judgement - I call it he was stoned and fucked up ..

So you're taking as gospel the report saying the traces of THC were consistent with someone smoking within 5 hours? (If testing methods are that accurate why are work places not actually testing for impairment rather than just traces)?

The police have stated that it was unlikely that the smoking the pilot was seen to be doing before the flight was Cannabis. The flight took off at 6.30am and crashed about 40 minutes later.

I suppose it's possible that the pilot sparked up a super early number before he left home in the morning but it's just as possible that he smoked the previous night and that the report isn't as accurate as they might like you to believe.

As I've already stated, if the pilot was actually impaired then he deserves to be condemned for it. I haven't seen anything that states that conclusively though.

[Banditbandit]

So you're taking as gospel the report saying the traces of THC were consistent with someone smoking within 5 hours?


Yes - given the level, that's a definite.


If testing methods are that accurate why are work places not actually testing for impairment rather than traces?

While it is true that cannabis can be detected in the human metabolism three months after it was consumed, there is considerable argument about what that means in terms of impairment. Even at the level of the balloon pilot, no-one wants to say conclusively "impaired".



The police have stated that it was unlikely that the smoking the pilot was seen to be doing before the flight was Cannabis. The flight took off at 6.30am and crashed about 40 minutes later.

I suppose it's possible that the pilot sparked up a super early number before he left home in the morning but it's just as possible that he smoked the previous night and that the report isn't as accurate as they might like you to believe.

A flight at 6.30 - with cannabis smoked within five hours - means about 1.30am he may have had a joint and then gone to bed? I doubt it - I think he smoked at home before he went to fly that morning .. If he did smoke at 1.340am (earliest) and went to bed - then he woke up stoned/half asleep and in not state to fly .. . Naaa .. he had an early one at home ...


As I've already stated, if the pilot was actually impaired then he deserves to be condemned for it. I haven't seen anything that states that conclusively though.

And you are never likely to see anyone official come out and say that - conclusive proof is difficult ...

[Katman]

And you are never likely to see anyone official come out and say that - conclusive proof is difficult ...

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Interpretation of Blood Concentrations: It is difficult to establish a relationship between a person's THC blood or plasma concentration and performance impairing effects. Concentrations of parent drug and metabolite are very dependent on pattern of use as well as dose. THC concentrations typically peak during the act of smoking, while peak 11-OH THC concentrations occur approximately 9-23 minutes after the start of smoking. Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours. Significant THC concentrations (7 to 18 ng/mL) are noted following even a single puff or hit of a marijuana cigarette. Peak plasma THC concentrations ranged from 46-188 ng/mL in 6 subjects after they smoked 8.8 mg THC over 10 minutes. Chronic users can have mean plasma levels of THC-COOH of 45 ng/mL, 12 hours after use; corresponding THC levels are, however, less than 1 ng/mL. Following oral administration, THC concentrations peak at 1-3 hours and are lower than after smoking. Dronabinol and THC-COOH are present in equal concentrations in plasma and concentrations peak at approximately 2-4 hours after dosing.

It is inadvisable to try and predict effects based on blood THC concentrations alone, and currently impossible to predict specific effects based on THC-COOH concentrations. It is possible for a person to be affected by marijuana use with concentrations of THC in their blood below the limit of detection of the method. Mathematical models have been developed to estimate the time of marijuana exposure within a 95% confidence interval. Knowing the elapsed time from marijuana exposure can then be used to predict impairment in concurrent cognitive and psychomotor effects based on data in the published literature.

Interpretation of Urine Test Results: Detection of total THC metabolites in urine, primarily THC-COOH-glucuronide, only indicates prior THC exposure. Detection time is well past the window of intoxication and impairment. Published excretion data from controlled clinical studies may provide a reference for evaluating urine cannabinoid concentrations; however, these data are generally reflective of occasional marijuana use rather than heavy, chronic marijuana exposure. It can take as long as 4 hours for THC-COOH to appear in the urine at concentrations sufficient to trigger an immunoassay (at 50ng/mL) following smoking. Positive test results generally indicate use within 1-3 days; however, the detection window could be significantly longer following heavy, chronic, use. Following single doses of Marinol®, low levels of dronabinol metabolites have been detected for more than 5 weeks in urine. Low concentrations of THC have also been measured in over-the-counter hemp oil products – consumption of these products may produce positive urine cannabinoid test results.

(I threw in the Urine test information to show that workplace testing is a crock of shit).

[Grubber]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Interpretation of Blood Concentrations: It is difficult to establish a relationship between a person's THC blood or plasma concentration and performance impairing effects. Concentrations of parent drug and metabolite are very dependent on pattern of use as well as dose. THC concentrations typically peak during the act of smoking, while peak 11-OH THC concentrations occur approximately 9-23 minutes after the start of smoking. Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours. Significant THC concentrations (7 to 18 ng/mL) are noted following even a single puff or hit of a marijuana cigarette. Peak plasma THC concentrations ranged from 46-188 ng/mL in 6 subjects after they smoked 8.8 mg THC over 10 minutes. Chronic users can have mean plasma levels of THC-COOH of 45 ng/mL, 12 hours after use; corresponding THC levels are, however, less than 1 ng/mL. Following oral administration, THC concentrations peak at 1-3 hours and are lower than after smoking. Dronabinol and THC-COOH are present in equal concentrations in plasma and concentrations peak at approximately 2-4 hours after dosing.

It is inadvisable to try and predict effects based on blood THC concentrations alone, and currently impossible to predict specific effects based on THC-COOH concentrations. It is possible for a person to be affected by marijuana use with concentrations of THC in their blood below the limit of detection of the method. Mathematical models have been developed to estimate the time of marijuana exposure within a 95% confidence interval. Knowing the elapsed time from marijuana exposure can then be used to predict impairment in concurrent cognitive and psychomotor effects based on data in the published literature.

Interpretation of Urine Test Results: Detection of total THC metabolites in urine, primarily THC-COOH-glucuronide, only indicates prior THC exposure. Detection time is well past the window of intoxication and impairment. Published excretion data from controlled clinical studies may provide a reference for evaluating urine cannabinoid concentrations; however, these data are generally reflective of occasional marijuana use rather than heavy, chronic marijuana exposure. It can take as long as 4 hours for THC-COOH to appear in the urine at concentrations sufficient to trigger an immunoassay (at 50ng/mL) following smoking. Positive test results generally indicate use within 1-3 days; however, the detection window could be significantly longer following heavy, chronic, use. Following single doses of Marinol®, low levels of dronabinol metabolites have been detected for more than 5 weeks in urine. Low concentrations of THC have also been measured in over-the-counter hemp oil products – consumption of these products may produce positive urine cannabinoid test results.

(I threw in the Urine test information to show that workplace testing is a crock of shit).

Urine testing can tell us if there has been a hit in the last 6 days.
We had a guy tested on a Friday and was found to have enough to indicate usage in the last 6 days.
Which meant he was driving a 50 ton rig through the night while he was using on the Saturday night prior.
Ill take that result and run with it thanks. We sacked him!

[Katman]

Urine testing can tell us if there has been a hit in the last 6 days.
We had a guy tested on a Friday and was found to have enough to indicate usage in the last 6 days.
Which meant he was driving a 50 ton rig through the night while he was using on the Saturday night prior.
Ill take that result and run with it thanks. We sacked him!

And that's a prime example of why it's a crock of shit.

[Grubber]

And that's a prime example of why it's a crock of shit.

I have no fuckin idea how you could come to that conclusion from what i have written above! Are you stoned as well?

[Katman]

I have no fuckin idea how you could come to that conclusion from what i have written above! Are you stoned as well?

It's a crock of shit because you clearly have no interest in whether the employee was actually impaired or not.

[Drew]

It's a crock of shit because you clearly have no interest in whether the employee was actually impaired or not.And since the driver has no way to prove he wasn't, he needs to accept that he was sacked.

Off topic though.

If this cat had smoked in the last five hours, I am willing to condemn him straight away.

[Katman]

And since the driver has no way to prove he wasn't, he needs to accept that he was sacked.


I'm sure he knew the rules Drew.

All I'm saying is that until some effort is made to determine a person's level of impairment then the rules are a crock of shit

[Akzle]

Bottom line, I will never believe it doesn't impare judgement and reactive times.

come up with the test, ill do a before an after.

[Grubber]

It's a crock of shit because you clearly have no interest in whether the employee was actually impaired or not.

You fuckin serious.
5 days prior to test he obviously was and he was in possession of one of our $600,000 rigs with a million bucks worth of goods on, driving on the same road as your grand kids and every other road user as well.

As usual your still a bloody retard!
Back on ignore!

[Katman]

5 days prior to test he obviously was and he was in possession of one of our $600,000 rigs with a million bucks worth of goods on, driving on the same road as your grand kids and every other road user as well.


So he may not have been impaired when he was driving your truck.

(And we all know you wouldn't know impairment if it visited your family home, right?)

[blue rider]

You fuckin serious.
5 days prior to test he obviously was and he was in possession of one of our $600,000 rigs with a million bucks worth of goods on, driving on the same road as your grand kids and every other road user as well.

As usual your still a bloody retard!
Back on ignore!



just out of curiosity, is testing also done for alcohol, and or prescription drugs such as Tremadol?
If someone has one or several drinks the night before going of to travel in a rig or on a balloon how is that impairment considered?

I am just asking, as it seems there is the perception that canabis use = refer madness and shit reaction etc, however alcohol = right on bro, have another one, no harm done. And have a couple of painkillers....cause its legal.

[gammaguy]

pretty isolated incident.

Im far more concerned about the tourists that come here and kill our citizens with their reckless disregard for our road rules - a far more common occurrence than balloon accidents.

Totally agree with the fact we need to carefully manage who we let loose on our roads.

Our whole tourism industry needs a big overhaul

Never mind though aye,shell be right

[Banditbandit]

come up with the test, ill do a before an after.

Jeez ... there'd be little difference for a "before and after" from your blood ..

[avgas]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/ALL_7b5714_3010340.jpg

I'M A FUCKING PILOT!!!

[Banditbandit]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/ALL_7b5714_3010340.jpg

I'M A FUCKING PILOT!!!

Are you wasted or something bro ???

[MVnut]

Can't understand why you all are sympathetic to the pilot, he murdered his passengers...what would you be saying if it was your family members dead

[Katman]

Can't understand why you all are sympathetic to the pilot, he murdered his passengers...what would you be saying if it was your family members dead

If he wasn't impaired at the time then the worst he did was make a terrible mistake.

If he was impaired at the time then he fucked up big time and deserves outright condemnation. Trouble is, we'll never know.

To say he murdered his passengers though doesn't say much for your rationality.

[Bassmatt]

Seems that there is an assumption here that if someone smokes pot then its always a big fat one and they get themselves totally ripped. It is possible to smoke a little bit just to "take the edge off", in the same way you may have one or two beers to do the same thing.

[Grubber]

just out of curiosity, is testing also done for alcohol, and or prescription drugs such as Tremadol?
If someone has one or several drinks the night before going of to travel in a rig or on a balloon how is that impairment considered?

I am just asking, as it seems there is the perception that canabis use = refer madness and shit reaction etc, however alcohol = right on bro, have another one, no harm done. And have a couple of painkillers....cause its legal.

We test for everything.
If there was alcohol involved he wouldn't have been going anywhere either, as per our policy. If he was in fact tested over the legal limit he would have suffered the same consequence but if under he would have been stood down until further notice without pay.
Likewise with any drugs of any kind unless they have sufficient medical clearance to state otherwise.
Basically if you have it in your system it is just a matter of how much with alcohol, if it's still under the legal limit we just hold them back if it's over then they are gone. With dope or drugs of any kind then they are automatically gone as there is legal requirements we have to meet by law and by our insurance company that requires us to dismiss them. Impaired or otherwise due to the fact that at some stage they definitely were impaired and law states that they must be clear of all drugs whilst operating a heavy vehicle. Personally i agree.

[gammaguy]

Seems that there is an assumption here that if someone smokes pot then its always a big fat one and they get themselves totally ripped. It is possible to smoke a little bit just to "take the edge off", in the same way you may have one or two beers to do the same thing.

Next time you fly,see how you feel if the pilot has a couple of beers in the bar before boarding.

If you think that's cool I suspect you will be a minority.

All I can say is that anyone who is happy to place their life in the hands of a drug affected person either has a strong belief in the afterlife or is tired of their current one

[pritch]

Originally Posted by MVnut
(which I don't actually agree with)



No shit.


That about sums it up. :whistle:

[oneblackflag]

Next time you fly,see how you feel if the pilot has a couple of beers in the bar before boarding.

If you think that's cool I suspect you will be a minority.

If he wasn't 'impaired' I couldn't give a fuck.

[MVnut]

If he wasn't impaired at the time then the worst he did was make a terrible mistake.

If he was impaired at the time then he fucked up big time and deserves outright condemnation. Trouble is, we'll never know.

To say he murdered his passengers though doesn't say much for your rationality.

In my opinion it has been proven (enough for me anyway) that he was under the influence, therefore committing a crime by piloting the balloon...then when people get killed while committing a crime (felony) it becomes murder

[Bassmatt]

Next time you fly,see how you feel if the pilot has a couple of beers in the bar before boarding.

If you think that's cool I suspect you will be a minority.

All I can say is that anyone who is happy to place their life in the hands of a drug affected person either has a strong belief in the afterlife or is tired of their current one

Two beers? I couldn't care less. I'd be more worried if I knew he had been up all night watching tv and hadn't had enough sleep. But of course its only those evil drugs which cause impairment.

[skippa1]

If he wasn't 'impaired' I couldn't give a fuck.
Minority....I would give a fuck....cause he would be impaired, a couple of beers will impair you

[MVnut]

Originally Posted by MVnut
(which I don't actually agree with)




That about sums it up. :whistle:

so you don't think people are entitled to an opinion, I certainly don't mind if you disagree with me, but if he was on drugs, I think he's a criminal. ...and if I'm against drugs in general, am I not entitled to that opinion

[oneblackflag]

Minority....I would give a fuck....cause he would be impaired, a couple of beers will impair you

Maybe me; maybe not the pilot.

[Berries]

Can't understand why you all are sympathetic to the pilot, he murdered his passengers...what would you be saying if it was your family members dead
Who is sympathetic to the pilot? If he was impaired then I would be agreeing with you but just because someone is a habitual user and had THC in the system does not mean they were impaired. If he was then fuck him but I guess it is something we will never know.

Things go wrong quickly in the air and without power to get out of trouble you can watch it all unfold before you. It is not as if balloons hitting power lines are rare, as evidenced by the link in post #6 to the balloon in the US this week. You obviously have a very strong view of cannabis which is why you have already hung the pilot and taken his family out to be shot.

If the guy had over 1,000 hours flying and habitually flew while stoned then I would have thought evidence would have already been presented. In fact he would have had his licence taken off him years ago. It hasn't and they haven't so I don't think this is as clear cut as you are making out.

[Woodman]

Next time you fly,see how you feel if the pilot has a couple of beers in the bar before boarding.

If you think that's cool I suspect you will be a minority.

All I can say is that anyone who is happy to place their life in the hands of a drug affected person either has a strong belief in the afterlife or is tired of their current one

Sums it up really

Fuck the coneheads

[SMOKEU]

Quite different but still the same. Impairment is impairment. I'm no happier with those on prescription drugs and/or alcohol on the road. You would be a retard to be happy with that.
the difference of course is that your idiots on the road impaired are not selling commercial transport......big fucken difference


How does it make any difference if a drug affected person is "selling commercial transport" or not? They could still be operating a private vehicle, and the laws of physics don't care if it's a commercial operation or not.


It's a crock of shit because you clearly have no interest in whether the employee was actually impaired or not.

Exactly.


And since the driver has no way to prove he wasn't, he needs to accept that he was sacked.


Why? The person could come to work hungover with no detectable alcohol levels in their breath and still be significantly impaired.


You fuckin serious.
5 days prior to test he obviously was and he was in possession of one of our $600,000 rigs with a million bucks worth of goods on, driving on the same road as your grand kids and every other road user as well.

As usual your still a bloody retard!
Back on ignore!

That was 5 days ago. You're the only "bloody retard" here if you think someone is still going to be high 5 days after the last dose. I'm starting to think that you're the one affected by drugs here since you can't even put a rational argument together. Alcohol impairment the night before, a lack of sleep, and prescription drugs all affect someone much, much more than some weed up to a few days previously.


Can't understand why you all are sympathetic to the pilot, he murdered his passengers...what would you be saying if it was your family members dead

Where's the evidence?


We test for everything.
If there was alcohol involved he wouldn't have been going anywhere either, as per our policy. If he was in fact tested over the legal limit he would have suffered the same consequence but if under he would have been stood down until further notice without pay.
Likewise with any drugs of any kind unless they have sufficient medical clearance to state otherwise.
Basically if you have it in your system it is just a matter of how much with alcohol, if it's still under the legal limit we just hold them back if it's over then they are gone. With dope or drugs of any kind then they are automatically gone as there is legal requirements we have to meet by law and by our insurance company that requires us to dismiss them. Impaired or otherwise due to the fact that at some stage they definitely were impaired and law states that they must be clear of all drugs whilst operating a heavy vehicle. Personally i agree.

"Test for everything?" :brick: You're far more naive than I ever thought possible. Drug tests for recreational drugs only test a tiny minority of known psychoactive substances, probably less than 1% of known drugs.

The person could have been hungover as fuck, but how would you prove that with no detectable alcohol in their breath? Alcohol, caffeine and tobacco are all psychoactive drugs that very few people get "medical clearance" to consume. So are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed coffee or cigarettes on the job, or alcohol in their spare time after work?





All I can say is that anyone who is happy to place their life in the hands of a drug affected person either has a strong belief in the afterlife or is tired of their current one

Then what are you doing on KB if that's your view? You shouldn't drive a cage, ride a motorbike or pushbike, or even be a pedestrian then because there could be some drug crazed muppet ready to run you over. Stay home, it will be safer.

[SMOKEU]

Sums it up really

Fuck the coneheads

Fuck all the alcohol drinkers too, especially for being stupid enough to willingly ingest a neurotoxin that has very few medical benefits.

[imdying]

A number of wasters write the code for our air traffic control systems... enjoy that thought :niceone:

[skippa1]

How does it make any difference if a drug affected person is "selling commercial transport" or not? They could still be operating a private vehicle, and the laws of physics don't care if it's a commercial operation or not.
Because they are not only taking the risk for themselves and those that my or may not be collateral damage of their choice, they are advertising, enticing and charging money for them to take part in their magical adventure. It's not physics, it's moral responsibility

[skippa1]

Fuck all the alcohol drinkers too, especially for being stupid enough to willingly ingest a neurotoxin that has very few medical benefits.
Your point may have more impact if you stayed on topic

[gammaguy]

How does it make any difference if a drug affected person is "selling commercial transport" or not? They could still be operating a private vehicle, and the laws of physics don't care if it's a commercial operation or not.



Exactly.



Why? The person could come to work hungover with no detectable alcohol levels in their breath and still be significantly impaired.



That was 5 days ago. You're the only "bloody retard" here if you think someone is still going to be high 5 days after the last dose. I'm starting to think that you're the one affected by drugs here since you can't even put a rational argument together. Alcohol impairment the night before, a lack of sleep, and prescription drugs all affect someone much, much more than some weed up to a few days previously.



Where's the evidence?



"Test for everything?" :brick: You're far more naive than I ever thought possible. Drug tests for recreational drugs only test a tiny minority of known psychoactive substances, probably less than 1% of known drugs.

The person could have been hungover as fuck, but how would you prove that with no detectable alcohol in their breath? Alcohol, caffeine and tobacco are all psychoactive drugs that very few people get "medical clearance" to consume. So are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed coffee or cigarettes on the job, or alcohol in their spare time after work?





Then what are you doing on KB if that's your view? You shouldn't drive a cage, ride a motorbike or pushbike, or even be a pedestrian then because there could be some drug crazed muppet ready to run you over. Stay home, it will be safer.

One big difference......in all those scenarios I am driving.....in the balloon/aircraft I am not,so my life is clearly in the hands of someone else

[Katman]

so you don't think people are entitled to an opinion, I certainly don't mind if you disagree with me, but if he was on drugs, I think he's a criminal. ...and if I'm against drugs in general, am I not entitled to that opinion

See that's your problem - you see a Cannabis user as a criminal but someone who drinks alcohol is just a person who sometimes drinks alcohol.

You sound like you've been well and truly brain washed.

[Jay GTI]

In my opinion it has been proven (enough for me anyway) that he was under the influence, therefore committing a crime by piloting the balloon...then when people get killed while committing a crime (felony) it becomes murder

Good thing we don't convict people based on someone's opinion formed from reading an article in the newspaper then. Breathe more, your brain is obviously not getting enough oxygen.

[Drew]

See that's your problem - you see a Cannabis user as a criminal but someone who drinks alcohol is just a person who sometimes drinks alcohol.

You sound like you've been well and truly brain washed.

A cannabis user IS a criminal though. Whether or not that is to your liking, it's a fact.

Heavy or moderate drinkers, are within the law to be so.


Still off topic though.

[Katman]

A cannabis user IS a criminal though. Whether or not that is to your liking, it's a fact.


And anyone who considers that opinion to be fair and just IS a fuckwit.

[oneblackflag]

In my opinion it has been proven (enough for me anyway) that he was under the influence, therefore committing a crime by piloting the balloon...then when people get killed while committing a crime (felony) it becomes murder

Did I miss something? The only thing proven is that he had smoked pot at some stage in the past, maybe days ago for all we know... How that leads you to believe he was under the influence during the flight is beyond me:scratch:

Murder.... WTF...

[Ocean1]

And anyone who considers that opinion to be fair and just IS a fuckwit.

So what does that make anyone who confuses facts for opinion, fuckwit?

[Katman]

...and if I'm against drugs in general, am I not entitled to that opinion

Are you against tobacco?

Are you against alcohol?

Are you against prescription drugs?

[SMOKEU]

Because they are not only taking the risk for themselves and those that my or may not be collateral damage of their choice, they are advertising, enticing and charging money for them to take part in their magical adventure. It's not physics, it's moral responsibility


One big difference......in all those scenarios I am driving.....in the balloon/aircraft I am not,so my life is clearly in the hands of someone else

Tell that to all the people who have died because of SMIDSYs.


Your point may have more impact if you stayed on topic

I was pointing out the blatant hypocrisy that most people have when it comes to illegal drugs vs prescription drugs and alcohol.

[Drew]

And anyone who considers that opinion to be fair and just IS a fuckwit.

No no, it is a fact that cannabis use is a crime. Not an opinion.

Whether it is fair or not, comes down to opinion. Of which I have offered none regarding legality.

[MVnut]

See that's your problem - you see a Cannabis user as a criminal but someone who drinks alcohol is just a person who sometimes drinks alcohol.

You sound like you've been well and truly brain washed.

How the fuck do you know what I think about people that take drugs or drink alcohol.....I have only been referring to a habitual drug user who killed a lot of innocent people

[MVnut]

Good thing we don't convict people based on someone's opinion formed from reading an article in the newspaper then. Breathe more, your brain is obviously not getting enough oxygen.

.......so you are presuming that I only get my information via the newspaper??? My brain is getting enough oxygen, don't worry about that

[Katman]

.......so you are presuming that I only get my information via the newspaper??? My brain is getting enough oxygen, don't worry about that

Hey, if you're privy to some damning evidence against the pilot then share it with us.

Otherwise you're just a retard who doesn't understand the definition of murder.

[oneblackflag]

How the fuck do you know what I think about people that take drugs or drink alcohol.....I have only been referring to a habitual drug user who killed a lot of innocent people

It's fairly obvious what you think when you want to crucify someone for murder going on one fact; he has used drugs in the past.

[SMOKEU]

No no, it is a fact that cannabis use is a crime. Not an opinion.

Whether it is fair or not, comes down to opinion. Of which I have offered none regarding legality.

The fact that the NZ government says that cannabis use is a crime whereas alcohol use is not, IS a crime in itself. Therefore, I don't recognise the NZ government jurisdiction when they say that cannabis is illegal since it causes negligible harm to myself, and none whatsover to other people.

[mashman]

Who is sympathetic to the pilot? If he was impaired then I would be agreeing with you but just because someone is a habitual user and had THC in the system does not mean they were impaired. If he was then fuck him but I guess it is something we will never know.

Things go wrong quickly in the air and without power to get out of trouble you can watch it all unfold before you. It is not as if balloons hitting power lines are rare, as evidenced by the link in post #6 to the balloon in the US this week. You obviously have a very strong view of cannabis which is why you have already hung the pilot and taken his family out to be shot.

If the guy had over 1,000 hours flying and habitually flew while stoned then I would have thought evidence would have already been presented. In fact he would have had his licence taken off him years ago. It hasn't and they haven't so I don't think this is as clear cut as you are making out.

Being that sensible really doesn't suit you.

[MVnut]

Hey, if you're privy to some damning evidence against the pilot then share it with us.

Otherwise you're just a retard who doesn't understand the definition of murder.

In commission of a crime causing death, 2nd degree murder, or did you miss something in Law School (maybe a braincell?) go back to sleep

[MVnut]

It's fairly obvious what you think when you want to crucify someone for murder going on one fact; he has used drugs in the past.

Only if the 'past' is recent enough to be current.........and yes I am more than happy to crucify someone who I believe causes death while committing a crime.

[Drew]

The fact that the NZ government says that cannabis use is a crime whereas alcohol use is not, IS a crime in itself. Therefore, I don't recognise the NZ government jurisdiction when they say that cannabis is illegal since it causes negligible harm to myself, and none whatsover to other people.

Oh yeah, how is that gonna stand up as a defence do ya think?

Look, this is all very interesting. It's moot though.

[skippa1]

Tell that to all the people who have died because of SMIDSYs.



I was pointing out the blatant hypocrisy that most people have when it comes to illegal drugs vs prescription drugs and alcohol.
You change these discussions into alcohol vs drugs every time. It's not about that. You loose all credibility by doing it. Just argue your corner if you believe you're right.

[Katman]

In commission of a crime causing death, 2nd degree murder, or did you miss something in Law School (maybe a braincell?) go back to sleep

You really have no clues, do you?

[Drew]

You really have no clues, do you?

Strong argument.

[Katman]

Strong argument.

Thank you Drew.

I pride myself on ensuring my opinion outweighs that of any fucking idiot.

[oneblackflag]

Only if the 'past' is recent enough to be current.........and yes I am more than happy to crucify someone who I believe causes death while committing a crime.

You have no idea if the past was recent enough to cause impairment.

On a side note; if he was blazed it would become apparent to the passengers as he got set up... They decided to get in with him.

[MVnut]

You really have no clues, do you?

I find it very strange that you defend this drug using pilot whose .... let's say inadequacy..... killed a lot of innocents when you continually persecute people breaking the odd speed law ....whether you actually have correct information or not

[MVnut]

You have no idea if the past was recent enough to cause impairment.

On a side note; if he was blazed it would become apparent to the passengers as he got set up... They decided to get in with him.

...........and you know this how?

[Katman]

I find it very strange that you defend this drug using pilot whose .... let's say inadequacy..... killed a lot of innocents when you continually persecute people breaking the odd speed law ....whether you actually have correct information or not

You should probably learn to read then.

[oneblackflag]

...........and you know this how?

I don't I'm following your lead and making wild assumptions.

[SMOKEU]

Oh yeah, how is that gonna stand up as a defence do ya think?

Look, this is all very interesting. It's moot though.

It won't come to that.


You change these discussions into alcohol vs drugs every time. It's not about that. You loose all credibility by doing it. Just argue your corner if you believe you're right.

People don't seem to have a problem with alcohol abuse or prescription drug use that may well impair people who are directly responsible for the lives of others, because it's too hard to enforce.

These same people are then all too happy to demonize illicit drug users, even when there's no evidence to show current impairment. It's akin to being sacked because the boss got wind that you had a few alcoholic beverages on your day off work.

[skippa1]

It won't come to that.



People don't seem to have a problem with alcohol abuse or prescription drug use that may well impair people who are directly responsible for the lives of others, because it's too hard to enforce.

These same people are then all too happy to demonize illicit drug users, even when there's no evidence to show current impairment. It's akin to being sacked because the boss got wind that you had a few alcoholic beverages on your day off work.
Ahh well, you carry on down your historic track, you brought alcohol into it and you can't see past your own logic....... A bit like some stoners I know.

[MVnut]

I don't I'm following your lead and making wild assumptions.

That is actually funny........but I am not making wild assumptions. You are welcome to continue the argument without me

[skippa1]

You have no idea if the past was recent enough to cause impairment.

On a side note; if he was blazed it would become apparent to the passengers as he got set up... They decided to get in with him.
Shall we ask them why..............?

[Katman]

That is actually funny........but I am not making wild assumptions.

You are assuming that the accident was caused by drug impairment.

You have no proof of that so it sounds like a fairly wild assumption to me.

[oneblackflag]

Shall we ask them why..............?

Got a wigi (sp) board handy?

[skippa1]

Got a wigi (sp) board handy?
Hardly a valid statement then aye.....

[oneblackflag]

Hardly a valid statement then aye.....

Didn't you catch the drift i was taking the piss out of the wild assumptions some have jumped to regarding impairment... Was only a few posts back...

[pritch]

..then when people get killed while committing a crime (felony) it becomes murder

In the USA if you kill someone on the way to committing a felony, during the commisioning of a felony, or while leaving the scene of a crime where a felony has been committed, the charge is murder in the first degree.

But that's in the USA, this is New Zealand. (Just thought you ought to know that.) :whistle:

[skippa1]

Didn't you catch the drift i was taking the piss out of the wild assumptions some have jumped to regarding impairment... Was only a few posts back...
What I get is that the coroner has seen his drug use as recent enough to rate mention. That in itself is not jumping to a wild conclusion, it is a statement made by one that is qualified and has scientific fact at their disposal. To minimise or defend the effects of the drug, talk down the impact based on the users consumption and immunity to its effects or defence of his actions based on a measure against alcohol abuse is to minimise the value of the lives lost.

The use of drugs in this instance has been mentioned at this point as a possible contributing factor, if not the reason for the whole sad episode. It's not a mistake that this is raised, the proof at this point has been sufficient to release to the press......have you got some evidence that counters that?

[Katman]

What I get is that the coroner has seen his drug use as recent enough to rate mention. That in itself is not jumping to a wild conclusion, it is a statement made by one that is qualified and has scientific fact at their disposal.

Are they qualified enough to make a call on whether the accident was caused by drug impairment?

[skippa1]

Are they qualified enough to make a call on whether the accident was caused by drug impairment?
More than you or I

[oneblackflag]

What I get is that the coroner has seen his drug use as recent enough to rate mention. That in itself is not jumping to a wild conclusion, it is a statement made by one that is qualified and has scientific fact at their disposal. To minimise or defend the effects of the drug, talk down the impact based on the users consumption and immunity to its effects or defence of his actions based on a measure against alcohol abuse is to minimise the value of the lives lost.

The use of drugs in this instance has been mentioned at this point as a possible contributing factor, if not the reason for the whole sad episode. It's not a mistake that this is raised, the proof at this point has been sufficient to release to the press......have you got some evidence that counters that?

No I don't its still unknown and always will be.

The fact the Coroner has mentioned it in no way justifies people jumping on the boat of saying the pilot was under the influence, there is simply no proof.

If he was in fact under the influence, like most others I totally find it abhorrent but there is just no way to prove that. Innocent until proven guilty.

[Katman]

More than you or I

But they never made that call, did they?

[skippa1]

there is just no way to prove that

Ahhh I believe that the level of drugs detected has been proved already, this can then be applied to known impairment levels. Or are you better informed of the real facts?

[skippa1]

But they never made that call, did they?
Not yet, they haven't ruled it out either

[Katman]

.... this can then be applied to known impairment levels.

Wow, sounds like you are privy to knowledge that no-one else is.

What are these known impairment levels you speak of and why aren't they in common use?

(Or are you just making shit up?)

[oneblackflag]

Ahhh I believe that the level of drugs detected has been proved already, this can then be applied to known impairment levels. Or are you better informed of the real facts?

So did the Coroner say he was impaired using these 'impairment levels'?

[oneblackflag]

Wow, sounds like you are privy to knowledge that no-one else is.

What are these known impairment levels you speak of and why aren't they in common use?

(Or are you just making shit up?)

Id go with "making shit up" based on crap.

[skippa1]

Wow, sounds like you are privy to knowledge that no-one else is.

What are these known impairment levels you speak of and why aren't they in common use?

(Or are you just making shit up?)
Not privy to fuck all....nor are you. I'm no more into blaming the innocent than you are but there has to be a point where some assumptions must be drawn with a given set of facts.

This fucker roasted 11 people through either incompetence, impairment or stupid decision making. It's been proved that he had levels of marijuana in his system that strongly suggests drug use within 6 hours of setting sail. Those are facts. What do you base any defence of his actions on?

[skippa1]

Id go with "making shit up" based on crap.
You may well be an expert on this.......smoke pot do you?

[oneblackflag]

You may well be an expert on this.......smoke pot do you?

10 years ago... Stupid assumption that I must smoke to take this side of the argument.

[oneblackflag]

Not privy to fuck all....nor are you. I'm no more into blaming the innocent than you are but there has to be a point where some assumptions must be drawn with a given set of facts.

This fucker roasted 11 people through either incompetence, impairment or stupid decision making. It's been proved that he had levels of marijuana in his system that strongly suggests drug use within 6 hours of setting sail. Those are facts. What do you base any defence of his actions on?

Mistakes never happen? Heads must always roll... Even if they are 6 foot under huh?

[Katman]

What do you base any defence of his actions on?

Simply the fact that none of us know whether the THC in his system indicates impairment or not.

[skippa1]

Mistakes never happen? Heads must always roll... Even if they are 6 foot under huh?
Smoking drugs within 6 hours of taking paying passengers on a ballon ride is not a mistake. It's a decision. Wonder if your view would be the same if your kid had been killed on that ballon.

[skippa1]

Simply the fact that none of us know whether the THC in his system indicates impairment or not.
Yet...........

[ellipsis]

assumptions must be drawn


...that's fucked your reasoning, right there...

[oneblackflag]

Yet...........

Don't let that stop ya lynching him :niceone:

[oneblackflag]

Smoking drugs within 6 hours of taking paying passengers on a ballon ride is not a mistake. It's a decision. Wonder if your view would be the same if your kid had been killed on that ballon.

I wouldn't be making assumptions.

[Katman]

Yet...........

Hey, feel free to get back to us with those known impairment levels.

[skippa1]

I wouldn't be making assumptions.
Yeah but you're happy for cunts to kill your family with drugs in their system

[skippa1]

Hey, feel free to get back to us with those known impairment levels.
Likewise......

[skippa1]

...that's fucked your reasoning, right there...
Only if you want it to

[Madness]

...that's fucked your reasoning, right there...

If that didn't do it alone I think the "strongly suggests" in the next paragraph sealed the fail.

[Katman]

Likewise......

Likewise what?

I'm not aware of any known impairment levels.

I thought you were the one in the know.

[pritch]

I think the pilot's marijuana use is something of a distraction. Some people come to New Zealand under the impression that it's just another theme park. It isn't.

Bungy jumping, white water rafting, parachute jumping, jet boating, mountain climbing, and in this case ballooning, all contain an element of risk. The best we can hope for is that the risks are recognised and managed appropriately, but there have been, and will be, fatalities.

None of hese activities were designed by Disney's "imagineers", and New Zealand is definitely not Disneyland.

[oneblackflag]

Yeah but you're happy for cunts to kill your family with drugs in their system

You still haven't got that traces of drugs in your system doesn't mean your influenced by them aye?

[skippa1]

Likewise what?

I'm not aware of any known impairment levels.

I thought you were the one in the know.
You must be, or your defence of his actions is based on..........assumption?

[skippa1]

If that didn't do it alone I think the "strongly suggests" in the next paragraph sealed the fail.
Semantics.......gets me every time

[oneblackflag]

You must be, or your defence of his actions is based on..........assumption?

Put up or shut up

[Katman]

You must be, or your defence of his actions is based on..........assumption?

I'm not defending his actions. I'm simply pointing out that you have no proof that the THC in his system was the cause of (or even contributed to) the accident.

[skippa1]

Put up or shut up
At the moment I have a corners findings. What facts do you have big talker......you're full of shit.

[Kickaha]

when you continually persecute people breaking the odd speed law ....
He does nothing of the sort, your comprehension and reading skills need work if you think that

[skippa1]

I'm not defending his actions. I'm simply pointing out that you have no proof that the THC in his system was the cause of (or even contributed to) the accident.
And you have no proof it didn't. Therefore your argument is no more or less valid

[Madness]

Semantics.......gets me every time

Trust me on this. Stick with the fish.

[Katman]

And you have no proof it didn't. Therefore your argument is no more or less valid

Yes, but I'm not the one jumping to conclusions.

[skippa1]

Trust me on this. Stick with the fish.
I love seafood

[skippa1]

Yes, but I'm not the one jumping to conclusions.
Ahhh yes you are, just the opposite end of the scale.


Anyway way im done. Bed time, ipad going flat. Work tomorrow. C u

[oneblackflag]

At the moment I have a corners findings. What facts do you have big talker......you're full of shit.

impairment levels... Put up your impairment levels table/calcs.... You seem to be avoiding that.

Facts I have?.. corners findings like you.... Big talker...

[Katman]

Ahhh yes you are, just the opposite end of the scale.


No I'm not. I have said a number of times that if he was impaired then he deserves condemnation. However, if he wasn't impaired then the THC in his system is irrelevant.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

[avgas]

Are you wasted or something bro ???
http://rlv.zcache.com/unicorn_i_am_full_of_magical_drugs_t_shirts-rd6f555a7d70042fe9f9802343dbc9e4c_va6l5_512.jpg

[Grubber]

I find it very strange that you defend this drug using pilot whose .... let's say inadequacy..... killed a lot of innocents when you continually persecute people breaking the odd speed law ....whether you actually have correct information or not

Agreed. He seems happy to give it out to a barely slow speeder but defend a dope head. No sense at all!



People don't seem to have a problem with alcohol abuse or prescription drug use that may well impair people who are directly responsible for the lives of others, because it's too hard to enforce.

These same people are then all too happy to demonize illicit drug users, even when there's no evidence to show current impairment. It's akin to being sacked because the boss got wind that you had a few alcoholic beverages on your day off work.[/QUOTE]

Since when don't we have an issue with alcohol abuse??? Try and stick to the drug bit aye. If you use on the job then don't expect sympathy for your employer if you get caught, but hey, as a dope head you will always argue the point to defend your pathetic need for dope.

[Grubber]

How does it make any difference if a drug affected person is "selling commercial transport" or not? They could still be operating a private vehicle, and the laws of physics don't care if it's a commercial operation or not.



Exactly.



Why? The person could come to work hungover with no detectable alcohol levels in their breath and still be significantly impaired.



That was 5 days ago. You're the only "bloody retard" here if you think someone is still going to be high 5 days after the last dose. I'm starting to think that you're the one affected by drugs here since you can't even put a rational argument together. Alcohol impairment the night before, a lack of sleep, and prescription drugs all affect someone much, much more than some weed up to a few days previously.

I'm a retard. You been smokin just recently have you. What don't you get here??? I siad he was operating one of our vehicles 5 days ago, which is when he would have been high as a kite. And you reckon i'm a retard. Lsiten carefully in future.

Where's the evidence?



"Test for everything?" :brick: You're far more naive than I ever thought possible. Drug tests for recreational drugs only test a tiny minority of known psychoactive substances, probably less than 1% of known drugs.

The person could have been hungover as fuck, but how would you prove that with no detectable alcohol in their breath? Alcohol, caffeine and tobacco are all psychoactive drugs that very few people get "medical clearance" to consume. So are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed coffee or cigarettes on the job, or alcohol in their spare time after work?


Here we go again, WE TEST FOR EVERYTHING! Check with the NZ Drug testing and see what you can find these days. Pay to get your facts right big fella.
Find this all very typical from dope users. Switch arguments onto alcohol or prescription drugs to further their efforts to justify their use of dope.


Then what are you doing on KB if that's your view? You shouldn't drive a cage, ride a motorbike or pushbike, or even be a pedestrian then because there could be some drug crazed muppet ready to run you over. Stay home, it will be safer.

Maybe if you would stay home the roads might become less of a danger to be on.

[Grubber]

Because they are not only taking the risk for themselves and those that my or may not be collateral damage of their choice, they are advertising, enticing and charging money for them to take part in their magical adventure. It's not physics, it's moral responsibility

You may have to say that a little louder. Don't think he gets much of the moral thing or the commercial to be fair.

[Katman]

Agreed. He seems happy to give it out to a barely slow speeder but defend a dope head. No sense at all!


That's been covered at post #156.

Do try to keep up.

[Katman]

Quite frankly, there would be a far greater level of impairment caused by a hangover from someone having a drinking session, coupled with very little sleep, than there would be from someone having a cone the night before.

[Banditbandit]

In commission of a crime causing death, 2nd degree murder, or did you miss something in Law School (maybe a braincell?) go back to sleep

I'm sorry - but there is no such crime as 2nd degree murder in Godzone - you've been watching too much television ..


Thank you Drew.

I pride myself on ensuring my opinion outweighs that of any fucking idiot.

And most of the time you do manage to scrape passed that mark ...


I'm not defending his actions. I'm simply pointing out that you have no proof that the THC in his system was the cause of (or even contributed to) the accident.

What do you mean by "proof"?

I have experience (quite a lot and over a long time) of the effects of both alcohol and cannabis ... My experience tells me that if he smoked within five hours of flying then he was impaired ... he might not have been completely wasted if he smoked five hours earlier (but the report says within five hours - so it could have even been half an hour earlier0 But if he had smoked five hours earlier, then he was still coming down .. possibly a worse state for flying a balloon than if he was recently stoned.



Quite frankly, there would be a far greater level of impairment caused by a hangover from someone having a drinking session, coupled with very little sleep, than there would be from someone having a cone the night before.

Are you speaking here from experience???

And "having a cone the night before"? The report says he smoked within five hours of the 6.30 flight - that at least puts the ingestion of THC o the same day .. you are trying to create wriggle room for your arguments .. not a valid step ..

I

[Madness]

Sleep deprivation could also lead to a greater level of impairment than any negligible residual effects from using Cannabis in my opinion. There was some talk on the web several months ago that suggested Lance Hopping may have had only a couple of hours sleep in the 24 hours preceding the accident and if I recall correctly, those close to Hopping believe that this was way more likely to have been a contributing factor than his Cannabis use.

A lack of sleep is so much less dramatic though, huh?

To those who are so quick to throw shit at the dead based on the Coroners mention of trace levels of THC should take a good look at themselves. It would pretty gutting to read some of the shit posted in this thread if you were a friend or relative of Hopping in light of the lack of facts available to prove that Hoppings' previous Cannabis use was indeed the cause or at least a contributing factor to the accident. Heartless cunts.

[Katman]

What do you mean by "proof"?

I have experience (quite a lot and over a long time) of the effects of both alcohol and cannabis ... My experience tells me that if he smoked within five hours of flying then he was impaired ... he might not have been completely wasted if he smoked five hours earlier (but the report says within five hours - so it could have even been half an hour earlier0 But if he had smoked five hours earlier, then he was still coming down .. possibly a worse state for flying a balloon than if he was recently stoned.

And "having a cone the night before"? The report says he smoked within five hours of the 6.30 flight - that at least puts the ingestion of THC o the same day .. you are trying to create wriggle room for your arguments .. not a valid step ..


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11254571

Forensic pathologist Fintan Garavan and ESR scientist Helen Poulsen said samples taken from Mr Hopping more than three days after the crash found 2 micrograms per litre of blood of the active ingredient in cannabis, THC, in his system.

Dr Poulsen said under normal conditions, that could indicate a cannabis cigarette was smoked up to five hours before death. But if smoked regularly, cannabis could accumulate in the body tissue.

In Mr Hopping's case, some decomposition of the sample and mixing of other bodily fluids could have increased or decreased the level of THC found.

"If he was a frequent user, then there would be a possibility that THC stored in the body could have increased the level found," she said. Dr Garavan said once-a-week use was sufficient to build up THC levels in the body. Once a user stopped smoking, the amount of THC could build up in the blood system as the drug, which had accumulated in the body tissue over a long period, was released into the body.

The evidence supported that Mr Hopping was a chronic user, not that he had smoked that morning, Dr Garavan said.

There was also no evidence of cannabis smoke in his lungs, which there would have been if he had smoked that day.

"It's highly unlikely that he smoked that morning."




At the risk of sounding like Ed, you really should do some research before before opening your mouth.

[ellipsis]

...someone will be along to tell us the coroner is a cunt and must have been stoned, soon...

[Bassmatt]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11254571

[B
The evidence supported that Mr Hopping was a chronic user, not that he had smoked that morning, Dr Garavan said.

There was also no evidence of cannabis smoke in his lungs, which there would have been if he had smoked that day.

"It's highly unlikely that he smoked that morning."
[/B]



At the risk of sounding like Ed, you really should do some research before before opening your mouth.

:laugh::laugh:

[oneblackflag]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11254571

Forensic pathologist Fintan Garavan and ESR scientist Helen Poulsen said samples taken from Mr Hopping more than three days after the crash found 2 micrograms per litre of blood of the active ingredient in cannabis, THC, in his system.

Dr Poulsen said under normal conditions, that could indicate a cannabis cigarette was smoked up to five hours before death. But if smoked regularly, cannabis could accumulate in the body tissue.

In Mr Hopping's case, some decomposition of the sample and mixing of other bodily fluids could have increased or decreased the level of THC found.

"If he was a frequent user, then there would be a possibility that THC stored in the body could have increased the level found," she said. Dr Garavan said once-a-week use was sufficient to build up THC levels in the body. Once a user stopped smoking, the amount of THC could build up in the blood system as the drug, which had accumulated in the body tissue over a long period, was released into the body.

The evidence supported that Mr Hopping was a chronic user, not that he had smoked that morning, Dr Garavan said.

There was also no evidence of cannabis smoke in his lungs, which there would have been if he had smoked that day.

"It's highly unlikely that he smoked that morning."




At the risk of sounding like Ed, you really should do some research before before opening your mouth.

But but but, skippa1's known impairment levels (tables /calcs/whatever) prove the pilot was under the influence... How can this be?

[Katman]

But but but, skipa1's known impairment levels (tables /calcs/whatever) prove the pilot was under the influence... How can this be?

He probably got his degree in forensic pathology at a different university.

[oneblackflag]

He probably got his degree in forensic pathology at a different university.

Ah an online jobbie... That explains it, thanks.

[Katman]

I suspect Banditbandit must be off searching for some 'wriggle room'.

[pritch]

So now I have a new question; why wait three days before deciding to do a drug test? If they'd waited much longer they'd have had to dig the poor bugger up to test him.

On another unrelated note, I'm concerned that young people watch so much US sourced TV that they don't even know what bloody country they live in.
If they aren't all that young that's even more of a worry. The stuff we see on KB that refers to, "Protect and Serve", cops and donuts, and now "murder in the second degree". WTF?
/Rant

[Grubber]

That's been covered at post #156.

Do try to keep up.

Adding my 5c worth so you can actually get fucked!

[mashman]

On another unrelated note, I'm concerned that young people watch so much US sourced TV that they don't even know what bloody country they live in.
If they aren't all that young that's even more of a worry. The stuff we see on KB that refers to, "Protect and Serve", cops and donuts, and now "murder in the second degree". WTF?
/Rant

Coming to a country near you, soon!

[Akzle]

You fuckin serious.
5 days prior to test he obviously was and he was in possession of one of our $600,000 rigs with a million bucks worth of goods on, driving on the same road as your grand kids and every other road user as well.

so, he was an observably poor driver?

Minority....I would give a fuck....cause he would be impaired, a couple of beers will impair you
no. Studies show that one or two beers improve your driving. After that its downhill.


"Test for everything?" :brick: You're far more naive than I ever thought possible. Drug tests for recreational drugs only test a tiny minority of known psychoactive substances, probably less than 1% of known drugs.
and that things like heroin, crack, meth etc metabolise and are undetectable after a few days.

No no, it is a fact that cannabis use is a crime. Not an opinion.

no. Its a civil offence. An infringement against legislation.
A crime requires an injured party.

Only if the 'past' is recent enough to be current.........and yes I am more than happy to crucify someone who I believe causes death while committing a crime.
as above

Oh yeah, how is that gonna stand up as a defence do ya think?

Quite well. To charge some person the police need several things. If you dont give them those, they dont have legal standing.

[Akzle]

On a side note; if he was blazed it would become apparent to the passengers as he got set up... They decided to get in with him.
well, unless they were ignorant 'tards like grubby. In which case, good fucking show!
(no, i think youd be surprised who can seem "normal" while under any influence)

Got a wigi (sp) board handy?

ouija. Ouiji.

[Swoop]

At the moment I have a corners findings.
No you don't.

The Coroner has yet to make any since that occurs at the end of the case.

What you do have, is an evidential submission to the court.

[Madness]

No you don't.

The Coroner has yet to make any since that occurs at the end of the case.

What you do have, is an evidential submission to the court.

And a pile of stinking fish-heads.

[Grubber]

well, unless they were ignorant retards like grubby. In which case, good fucking show!
(no, i think youd be surprised who can seem "normal" while under any influence)


ouija. Ouiji.

Comments like that coming from a dope head doesn't really faze me too much.
Salt, Grain, etc.
Grow up!

[Akzle]

Comments like that coming from a dope head doesn't really faze me too much.
Salt, Grain, etc.
Grow up!

grubby, i'd pass a drug test right now. that means there isn't even residual cannabis in my system. (i'm going to have a cone in about 5 minutes, but that's aside the point. i'm legally entitled to call you a moron) and being that i'm "clean", you have to accept it. eh.

but hey, continue to prove your ignorance, just for something new and exciting.

[Katman]

grubby, i'm legally entitled to call you a moron.

I'll second that.

[Grubber]

grubby, i'd pass a drug test right now. that means there isn't even residual cannabis in my system. (i'm going to have a cone in about 5 minutes, but that's aside the point. i'm legally entitled to call you a moron) and being that i'm "clean", you have to accept it. eh.

but hey, continue to prove your ignorance, just for something new and exciting.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything. Clean now doesn't mean ya will be in 5 minutes, so whats ya point with all that.
Oh and im clean now and always am so I can call you names too eh. Dickhead!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[pritch]

Irrelevant I know but...

THC is fat soluble, unlike alcohol which is water soluble. What use is that information I hear you ask?

Well, if you are somewhat overweight and go on a diet, THC may be released back into the system as you lose weight even though you may not have partaken in a considerable time. The phenomenon known as flashbacks.

Ummm don't ask me how i know this.

[avgas]

grubby, i'd pass a drug test right now. that means there isn't even residual cannabis in my system. (i'm going to have a cone in about 5 minutes, but that's aside the point. i'm legally entitled to call you a moron) and being that i'm "clean", you have to accept it. eh.

but hey, continue to prove your ignorance, just for something new and exciting.
You do know you have to be clean for 21 days to pass that test? That's how long they can grab you for it.
Dope is fucking horrible like that. You can be a really casual smoker (like once a month) but still lose your job.......but do P on friday and your "clean" on monday. Fucking horrible.

[Akzle]

What the fuck does that have to do with anything. Clean now doesn't mean ya will be in 5 minutes, so whats ya point with all that.
Oh and im clean now and always am so I can call you names too eh. Dickhead!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

you are just-too-muchery grubb. :lol:

maybe a hot tea and a lie down for you eh.

just to be clear. if anyone ever takes drugs, they're bad, eh?

[Akzle]

You do know you have to be clean for 21 days to pass that test? That's how long they can grab you for it.
Dope is fucking horrible like that. You can be a really casual smoker (like once a month) but still lose your job.......but do P on friday and your "clean" on monday. Fucking horrible.

yes i do know that. and with my level of use it's more like 3 months. not that i carry much fat. but, as i said, and knowing that, i'd have passed a drug test.
hell, i still might, i don't know how long it actually takes to show up.

[avgas]

....overweight and go on a diet,..... The phenomenon known as flashbacks.
You sure the last time you went to the gym wasn't a flashback?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fRscYVvEFt8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[imdying]

Irrelevant I know but...

THC is fat soluble, unlike alcohol which is water soluble. What use is that information I hear you ask?

Well, if you are somewhat overweight and go on a diet, THC may be released back into the system as you lose weight even though you may not have partaken in a considerable time. The phenomenon known as flashbacks.

Ummm don't ask me how i know this.

BRB ordering more donuts.

[pritch]

You sure the last time you went to the gym wasn't a flashback?


I can remember my last visit to a gym and it was in Wellington not long after I got out of the army so, although I was worried about putting on weight, I hadn't seen nothin' yet. This is prolly back before most KBers were born.

Stopped and looked in one night after work and there were a bunch of gay guys doing a few reps of whatever and then taking turns to ponce around in front of the mirror. Ummm no thanks.

[Banditbandit]

If ever a thread deserved to be dumped into Pointless Drivel this is it now ...

[Madness]

If ever a thread deserved to be dumped into Pointless Drivel this is it now ...

Lesbians seem to work.

[Katman]

If ever a thread deserved to be dumped into Pointless Drivel this is it now ...

Really? Is that because you've been shown up as a fool?

[pritch]

If ever a thread deserved to be dumped into Pointless Drivel this is it now ...

I hope you weren't offended by my post? :whistle:

[skippa1]

But but but, skippa1's known impairment levels (tables /calcs/whatever) prove the pilot was under the influence... How can this be?


He probably got his degree in forensic pathology at a different university.
I see a budding romance here.......I might have brought a couple together:love:

[oneblackflag]

I see a budding romance here.......I might have brought a couple together:love:

Got nothing huh?

[skippa1]

Got nothing huh?
I don't think you really know what your opinion is so you take two actions.....back people you think might back you.....or say plenty because if you say enough, something you say might be right.

you have nothing, no opinion of your own, no idea of your own.......and I can't be fucked wasting my time on you

[oneblackflag]

I don't think you really know what your opinion is so you take two actions.....back people you think might back you.....or say plenty because if you say enough, something you say might be right.

you have nothing, no opinion of your own, no idea of your own.......and I can't be fucked wasting my time on you

My opinion all along was there was no evidence to prove the pilot was under the influence. If there was proof he was stoned while flying he would be a bad man.

You believed he was under the influence and were quite happy to join the lynch mob without any evidence... Oh no sorry you had the impairment levels aye... What were they again?

[skippa1]

My opinion all along was there was no evidence to prove the pilot was under the influence. If there was proof he was stoned while flying he would be a bad man.

You believed he was under the influence and were quite happy to join the lynch mob without any evidence... Oh no sorry you had the impairment levels aye... What were they again?
If I was to engage with you on this as you want me to driven by your petty taunting, I would be wasting my fuckin time and I won't do that:oi-grr:

[Madness]

Got nothing huh?

Absolutely fucking nothing by the looks. Not even 2%.

[oneblackflag]

If I was to engage with you on this as you want me to driven by your petty taunting, I would be wasting my fuckin time and I won't do that:oi-grr:

Yet you can't help but come back.

How am I taunting you?

[skippa1]

Absolutely fucking nothing by the looks. Not even 2%.
You're ignore list must be broken

[scumdog]

I bet if he had been drinking booze some of the above comments would be quite different..;)

See?

I was right.;):yes:

Do I get a prize??

[Madness]

You're ignore list must be broken

I took you off, I was always left wondering what the big joke was.

[skippa1]

I took you off, I was always left wondering what the big joke was.
I think you might have just missed me

[ellipsis]

...666...the devil is in the detail...:argue:

[avgas]

Stopped and looked in one night after work and there were a bunch of gay guys doing a few reps of whatever and then taking turns to ponce around in front of the mirror. Ummm no thanks.
Ummm you sure that was a gym? How long did you look before deciding no thanks?

[pritch]

Ummm you sure that was a gym? How long did you look before deciding no thanks?

Funny enough it was the YMCA gym, I smiled when I first heard the song. That was nearly 45 years ago though, there wasn't a gym on nearly every street like there is now. How long did I watch? Too long ago to say, but I wouldn't have watched too long in case they thought I was umm interested (?).

[Banditbandit]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10345805_819741021380244_281065345465218602_n.jpg

[mashman]

"It would appear that we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with computer technology. Although one should be careful with such statements as they tend to sounds pretty silly in five years" - John von Neumann 1949

"computers in the future may have only 1000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons" - Popular Mechanics 1949

[Shaun Harris]

Being a professional pilot, if he was too baked then I'm sure he wouldn't have flown.

Many other people who we trust our lives with are habitual drug users as well, like people who drink alcohol and then drive afterward, or prescription junkies like Ed.









Bang on mate, pot is a lot less harmfull and distracting than alchohol any day of the week, YES I know that Factually!

[Berries]

Good to finally see some wider reporting rather than jumping in with both feet on one issue as the Dominion Post and some on here seem to have done - balloon-ground-crew-deny-dope-claims. (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/23533507/balloon-ground-crew-deny-dope-claims/)

The only informative thing the Dom Post have published are comments about some of the issues caused by power lines when coming in to land - pilot-likely-failed-to-see-power-lines. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10043009/Pilot-likely-failed-to-see-power-lines) I can vouch from experience how hard it is to see power lines when you are above them and doing an off airfield landing and have watched a mate fly straight in to them.

I have known a lot of pilots over the years, fixed wing, balloon and parachute. Most of them enjoyed a beer, one or two could probably be considered as long term users of cannabis, but not one of them would have flown in a mind altered state. Forget the law, it is the first rule of self survival when playing around with gravity. I am not convinced that a professional pilot with that level of experience would go flying with passengers while wasted. I find the way that Stuff and the Dom Post have been reporting on this quite revealing.

[Shaun Harris]

Good to finally see some wider reporting rather than jumping in with both feet on one issue as the Dominion Post and some on here seem to have done - balloon-ground-crew-deny-dope-claims. (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/23533507/balloon-ground-crew-deny-dope-claims/)

The only informative thing the Dom Post have published are comments about some of the issues caused by power lines when coming in to land - pilot-likely-failed-to-see-power-lines. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10043009/Pilot-likely-failed-to-see-power-lines) I can vouch from experience how hard it is to see power lines when you are above them and doing an off airfield landing and have watched a mate fly straight in to them.

I have known a lot of pilots over the years, fixed wing, balloon and parachute. Most of them enjoyed a beer, one or two could probably be considered as long term users of cannabis, but not one of them would have flown in a mind altered state. Forget the law, it is the first rule of self survival when playing around with gravity. I am not convinced that a professional pilot with that level of experience would go flying with passengers while wasted. I find the way that Stuff and the Dom Post have been reporting on this quite revealing.







12 hours bottle to throttle and are sure re his smoking would have been simillar