When people die on quad bikes, what kills them? Is it head injuries?

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/10051594/Quad-bike-helmet-fine-unjustifiable


I would have thought it would be crush injuries and broken necks.

The point I am getting at is what real utility a helmet has on a quad bike. Any agrarian types care to share?

I have only ever ridden a quad bike once in my life. It was a 50cc one at a kind of rink thing in Picton. We were waiting for the ferry and had time to kill... I spent most of the session riding the thing round on two wheels which was good fun. I was wearing a helmet. Full motorcycle gear in fact.

[bogan]

For a kid it may well be head injuries as they'd be more likely to be thrown clear I would think.

The quad bike issue is very bureaucratic, I mean sure there are risky situations (hills or larking about) but when the quad is used normally the chance of an accident is pretty much 0. Been far closer to rolling a tractor than I have ever been to flipping a farm quad.

[Shaun Harris]

Quad bikes and wanker farm crashes is why you road riders are paying so much in rego fees, they should have to have there own full insurance

[bogan]

Quad bikes and wanker farm crashes is why you road riders are paying so much in rego fees, they should have to have there own full insurance

Wrong, while some do make it through (those that occur on roads generally) it is due to data filing errors, not the design of the system, ie, they are already separate accounts.

[BigAl]

Bro in law, dairy farmer, has flipped his quad more than once.

Once caused by top heavy spray tank that was full, another by a boom that dropped down and dug in, don't know reason for other times and once he was carry one of his kids.

Luckily thrown clear with no injuries in all cases but most of quad injuries are by crushing so helmet would do bugger all.

Perhaps though by wearing it you imply that you are thinking of safety.

[Shaun Harris]

Wrong, while some do make it through (those that occur on roads generally) it is due to data filing errors, not the design of the system, ie, they are already separate accounts.







So are you saying that all accidients related to motorcycles ie quads, motox, dirt bike etc are now seperate entities in the ACC system?

[bogan]

So are you saying that all accidients related to motorcycles ie quads, motox, dirt bike etc are now seperate entities in the ACC system?

They always have been separate categories. But cos your average writer-of-forms is unlikely to know the subtle difference between an XR600 and a CBR600, lots of farm accidents get chucked in with the road stuff.

[willytheekid]

Quad bikes and wanker farm crashes is why you road riders are paying so much in rego fees, they should have to have there own full insurance

+1! :yes:

Totally agree!, Sadly, farmers with a "she'll be right" attitude towards safety & alcohol seem's to be a major factor in farm bike crashes...and involving there kids at the same time!...cos that way...they too can grow up with the same bad habits & attitude towards safety!:facepalm: (Oh...and Quads have an age limit in NZ...its 16! -http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/factsheets/19/all-terrain-vehicles.html ...and its for a good reason!)


Seriously...why are ALL motorcycles carelessly lumped into one stat?, yet only one user group pays??...surely only registered bikes should be covered by ACC, all others should be either clearly seperated from there BS stats, and forced to pay there own way (And DON'T try an sell the bullshit! argument that "but dirt bikers etc pay car rego blah fuckin blah!...Ive got a car too!...I also pay at the pumps, and out of my wages...does that mean I Too can take the high ground and don't need to register my road bike cos Im already paying my "share"?...of course fucking not!...but its ok for us road riders to pay excessive fees to cover every other type of "motorcycle" used within NZ...Just BS!!)

Personally...I feel it should be "individual cover"...the person!, not the vehicle!, and if you use the "service", your fees go up...if you manage to ride safely and avoid the use of the "service", fees should go down!....THATS user pays, and THATS fair....hence, it will never happen

Yes...I just paid my Rego fees:weep:....can ya tell?:mad: (Was tempted to take some lube!...just to ease the pain of being so roughly shafted!)

http://www.screwedbyacc.co.nz/pics/nzaccsituation.jpg

[Shaun Harris]

They always have been separate categories. But cos your average writer-of-forms is unlikely to know the subtle difference between an XR600 and a CBR600, lots of farm accidents get chucked in with the road stuff.








so sorry then, but what I Origianally said still stands then! And the road riders are paying for it

[bogan]

so sorry then, but what I Origianally said still stands then! And the road riders are paying for it

No, it doesn't. Because the proportion of farm bikes in said category has far less of an effect like other factors such as car drivers not seeing us, ACC deciding it is victim pays, and of course unskilled riders having accidents.

One of the big reasons is actually the attitudes you seem to be putting forward, that it is always somebody else's fault. Who gives a shit, put blame where you can actually do some good with it instead of just putting it as far from you as possible.

[Shaun Harris]

No, it doesn't. Because the proportion of farm bikes in said category has far less of an effect like other factors such as car drivers not seeing us, ACC deciding it is victim pays, and of course unskilled riders having accidents.

One of the big reasons is actually the attitudes you seem to be putting forward, that it is always somebody else's fault. Who gives a shit, put blame where you can actually do some good with it instead of just putting it as far from you as possible.






Not arguing man just debating! Can you show me some thing that shows all accidents related to motorcycles are seperate on the ACC books?

[bogan]

+1! :yes:

Totally agree!, Sadly, farmers with a "she'll be right" attitude towards safety & alcohol seem's to be a major factor in farm bike crashes...and involving there kids at the same time!...cos that way...they too can grow up with the same bad habits & attitude towards safety!:facepalm: (Oh...and Quads have an age limit in NZ...its 16! -http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/factsheets/19/all-terrain-vehicles.html ...and its for a good reason!)

C'mon Willy, you're better than that. It isn't the reason our regos are so high, nobody said the dude had been drinking, and the age limit applies to riders not passengers.

[scott411]

OK this is how it works,

Farm quad crashes are lumped in with the work place injurys, which is paid for by the employers levy, which charges farmers some of the highest rates with forestry contractors, due to the number of accidents in the industry

Road Bike crashes come out of the motor vehicle levy, which is collected from Fuel and rego levy's,. which is why when you fill out a ACC form, it asks you if the accident happend on a public road, or beach (which is technically a public road)

Motocross crashes are paid for out of the general levy, as all sports are, (rugby being the top claimer) which is funded out of the employee levy which is standard across the board for all wage and salary earners,

as stated above, with a beach accident on a quad you may get a cross over, but it would be exception not the rule


now before you start saying farm quad accidents push your road bike fees, there were 41 riders and passengers killed on the road in the last year, (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html) and only 5 quad related deaths , and at the moment its over 2 quads for every road bike and scooter being sold in NZ at the moment, the average farm quad would do probably over 10 x the hours a week than the average road bike rider would in my experience

[bogan]

Not arguing man just debating! Can you show me some thing that shows all accidents related to motorcycles are seperate on the ACC books?

Separate to what? Like how there is separate road user and farm/work accounts (is general knowledge right?) that gets paid out of for the injury? or how they figure to assign them to each?

Edit: hopefully Scott answered your question.

[Shaun Harris]

OK this is how it works,

Farm quad crashes are lumped in with the work place injurys, which is paid for by the employers levy, which charges farmers some of the highest rates with forestry contractors, due to the number of accidents in the industry

Road Bike crashes come out of the motor vehicle levy, which is collected from Fuel and rego levy's,. which is why when you fill out a ACC form, it asks you if the accident happend on a public road, or beach (which is technically a public road)

Motocross crashes are paid for out of the general levy, as all sports are, (rugby being the top claimer) which is funded out of the employee levy which is standard across the board for all wage and salary earners,

as stated above, with a beach accident on a quad you may get a cross over, but it would be exception not the rule


now before you start saying farm quad accidents push your road bike fees, there were 41 riders and passengers killed on the road in the last year, (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html) and only 5 quad related deaths , and at the moment its over 2 quads for every road bike and scooter being sold in NZ at the moment, the average farm quad would do probably over 10 x the hours a week than the average road bike rider would in my experience








Cheers Scott, that clears it up

[scott411]

Back to the OP question, the main cause of death is crushing injuries, but i dont have all the stats,

the helmet thing is off base IMO, but worksafe and acc push them hard,

I think 15K is way over the top for this breach, but the person had been formally warned, and kept going, Farms are work places, and if you were to carry a young child around on a forklift in a warehouse the outcry would be the same, Worksafe are trying to get farmers to change there ways,

[Katman]

I mean sure there are risky situations (hills or larking about) but when the quad is used normally the chance of an accident is pretty much 0. Been far closer to rolling a tractor than I have ever been to flipping a farm quad.

It's not unusual for things like ball joints to break on poorly maintained farm bikes (yes, there's plenty of those out there) - even when used in a normal manner.

Have one of those let go on a hill and the quad won't stop till it gets to the bottom.

[Shaun Harris]

And another brand of Quad bikes to come on our market soon CFMOTO

[willytheekid]

C'mon Willy, you're better than that. It isn't the reason our regos are so high, nobody said the dude had been drinking, and the age limit applies to riders not passengers.

Nah...Im not! lol (just paid a yrs worth of rego mate...Im still bleeding!)

Unfortunately...it is one of the reasons rego is so high mate.
ACC used the combined stats to raise the cost of cover for motocyclists.

As for kids on Quads...yup, dead right, they are not allowed to "ride" them...but MOST farm quads are single seaters...which are NOT allowed passengers.

As for the guy in the article...I think he got unfairly made a scape goat...15k?:crazy:...bit too harsh! (And I never said he was drinking...but alot of these accidents do involve alcohol)

As i said...its the system thats broken, not the over charged users!

...still bleeding tho, so cut me some slack :killingme

[scott411]

And another brand of Quad bikes to come on our market soon CFMOTO

they have been out here for a number of years, but without a heap of success, the new importer will try to change that, they do better in aussie

[HenryDorsetCase]

Back to the OP question, the main cause of death is crushing injuries, but i dont have all the stats,

the helmet thing is off base IMO, but worksafe and acc push them hard,

I think 15K is way over the top for this breach, but the person had been formally warned, and kept going, Farms are work places, and if you were to carry a young child around on a forklift in a warehouse the outcry would be the same, Worksafe are trying to get farmers to change there ways,


Good point. Thanks for your comments.

I believe that the fine for not wearing a helmet on my motorbike ride home this evening, if stopped by a member of HM Constabulary is $50. Yet (IMO, and thinking about the stats you quoted) it is likely 30000 x more dangerous to do that than to drive a quad bike round my farm sans helmet. It seems ..... off to me somehow. The penalty is disproportionate to the mischief, to misquote Lord Denning.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's not unusual for things like ball joints to break on poorly maintained farm bikes (yes, there's plenty of those out there) - even when used in a normal manner.

Have one of those let go on a hill and the quad won't stop till it gets to the bottom.

I talked to a mechanic who worked on them and he HATED them because the cockies just flogged the shit out of them, never cleaned them and never maintained them. He sais that the Honda ones stood the most abuse before dying but were the most expensive (Who would have thought? a Honda the most expensive!!!)

[bogan]

It's not unusual for things like ball joints to break on poorly maintained farm bikes (yes, there's plenty of those out there) - even when used in a normal manner.

Have one of those let go on a hill and the quad won't stop till it gets to the bottom.

I'd consider normal use to include proper servicing. The point is that these sort of laws don't account for personal responsibility. Though of course we might disagree whether that is common enough to not require such laws. I think what we can agree on, is that a 15k fine is unjustifiably expensive. I mean fuck, get one of those heli-cams out rural and you could make 15k per day in just $150 dollar fines (provided it is not duck hunting season).

[Shaun Harris]

Farmers wash there cow shed floor every milking, but the bike gets a wash when it goes to the shop every 6 months or so, they really are ignorent they do not look after there work tools

[scott411]

page 4 of this australian report covers types of injures reported to one hospital over a 7 year preiod, (70 injuries) 20% were head and neck, and a helmet wont help neck,

http://www.healthnetworks.health.wa.gov.au/docs/injury_quad_bike.pdf

[bogan]

Nah...Im not! lol (just paid a yrs worth of rego mate...Im still bleeding!)

Unfortunately...it is one of the reasons rego is so high mate.
ACC used the combined stats to raise the cost of cover for motocyclists.

As for kids on Quads...yup, dead right, they are not allowed to "ride" them...but MOST farm quads are single seaters...which are NOT allowed passengers.

As for the guy in the article...I think he got unfairly made a scape goat...15k?:crazy:...bit too harsh! (And I never said he was drinking...but alot of these accidents do involve alcohol)

As i said...its the system thats broken, not the over charged users!

...still bleeding tho, so cut me some slack :killingme

Yeh I distanced myself from the pain by just not paying it...

Maybe, but it is certainly no reason to blame the farmers for that; and its not like a lack of that justification would have reduced the levies they decided to apply anyway; lets be honest.

Is that legislated that single seater quads can't have passengers? and what constitutes a second seat anyway?

I'd disagree there, the quad bike accidents involving alcohol I hear of are people larking about at the beach or whatever, not going about their jobs on the farm.

Yeh I agree on that, won't fix the system by passing the blame around other overcharged users though will we :msn-wink:

[Shaun Harris]

they have been out here for a number of years, but without a heap of success, the new importer will try to change that, they do better in aussie






Yea Norwoods did not have a lot of success with them sales wise

[scott411]

Yea Norwoods did not have a lot of success with them sales wise

nor with Yamaha in the shops they had them in, (Pukekohe and Te Awamutu)

[Banditbandit]

Back to the OP question, the main cause of death is crushing injuries, but i dont have all the stats,

the helmet thing is off base IMO, but worksafe and acc push them hard,

I think 15K is way over the top for this breach, but the person had been formally warned, and kept going, Farms are work places, and if you were to carry a young child around on a forklift in a warehouse the outcry would be the same, Worksafe are trying to get farmers to change there ways,

That's like an argument I have in a 1939 British Motorcycle News, arguing against motorcycle helmets on the basis of them only being useful when a crash is actually happening ..

Yes, there are head injuries caused by quad bike accidents - thrown over the back as they flip, or riders get thrown sideways ..

The crush injuries because motorcycles fall over flat ... and stop .. quads, being basically box-like fall over - and keep rolling - so if you tumble off one side, and the quad tips too, then the bloody things will roll over you - especially if you are on a hill.

I rolled mine a few years ago - luckily I got my feet on the seat as it came down on top of me - the only result was badly bruised ribs were the carrier hit me ..

And yes, ACC levies on farm income are fucking huge - I disliked paying it each year .. it was way more than bike ACC levies ..

[HenryDorsetCase]

When I was a kid all the cockies had TF125's. Or RV90's or RV125's or Honda CT's, i.e. 2 wheelers.

Presumably the utility of a quad (i.e. its a mini ute or tractor) plus ease of operaton means they'be been entirely supplanted by these abortions (i.e. quads)?

One of my mates who was a dairy farmer had a two seat side by side with a rollcage quad that was terrifying. a Kawasaki of some sort. Had seat belts but the one time I was in it I wanted sprintcar arm restraints, full race suit, and a HANS device.... and a full five point harness.

[HenryDorsetCase]

And yes, ACC levies on farm income are fucking huge - I disliked paying it each year .. it was way more than bike ACC levies ..

become an office drone. You will die of septicemia from a paper cut. Or botulism from something gross in the office fridge.

[scott411]

When I was a kid all the cockies had TF125's. Or RV90's or RV125's or Honda CT's, i.e. 2 wheelers.

Presumably the utility of a quad (i.e. its a mini ute or tractor) plus ease of operaton means they'be been entirely supplanted by these abortions (i.e. quads)?

One of my mates who was a dairy farmer had a two seat side by side with a rollcage quad that was terrifying. a Kawasaki of some sort. Had seat belts but the one time I was in it I wanted sprintcar arm restraints, full race suit, and a HANS device.... and a full five point harness.

yes but back then, a 150 cow herd was considered quite big, now its almost hobby farm status,

Yes Kawasaki Teryx's are mighty fun, and you can scare the shit out of people in them ;), we do some much slower ones called mules which are alot less powerfull,

[Ocean1]

yes but back then, a 150 cow herd was considered quite big, now its almost hobby farm status,

Yes Kawasaki Teryx's are mighty fun, and you can scare the shit out of people in them ;), we do some much slower ones called mules which are alot less powerfull,

I see DOC are ditching all quads from their land and replacing them with those wee Suzuki jeeps.

I'd venture to suggest that quads are safer than the tractors/ag bikes they replaced. Which were safert than the horses....

So, where's the evidence that wee Suzuki jeeps will be any safer? The same place as the evidence that helmets on quads in mud at walking pace save lives?

Fk'n panzy-arsed fukwits.

[scott411]

I see DOC are ditching all quads from their land and replacing them with those wee Suzuki jeeps.

I'd venture to suggest that quads are safer than the tractors/ag bikes they replaced. Which were safert than the horses....

So, where's the evidence that wee Suzuki jeeps will be any safer? The same place as the evidence that helmets on quads in mud at walking pace save lives?

Fk'n panzy-arsed fukwits.

they are getting a few different things, landcorp are doing the same,

and I agree, tractors used to kill the most, then quad bikes, and side by sides or utes that roll will cause just as much damage,

in the USA, side by side now out sell quads, and side by side injuries are now catching up to quad injuries as well,

[HenryDorsetCase]

clearly this is the answer:

[Katman]

Farmers wash there cow shed floor every milking, but the bike gets a wash when it goes to the shop every 6 months or so, they really are ignorent they do not look after there work tools

Yep, eventually frame rails will rot right through from the cow shit that never gets washed off.

[Shaun Harris]

Yep, eventually frame rails will rot right through from the cow shit that never gets washed off.





Bingo, cow shit eats those things alive

[Akzle]

head injuries, must be:

We are paying high rego because those that cause accidents are not fined high enough.

[buggerit]

I see DOC are ditching all quads from their land and replacing them with those wee Suzuki jeeps.

I'd venture to suggest that quads are safer than the tractors/ag bikes they replaced. Which were safert than the horses....

So, where's the evidence that wee Suzuki jeeps will be any safer? The same place as the evidence that helmets on quads in mud at walking pace save lives?

Fk'n panzy-arsed fukwits.

Mate used to sell quads to them, reconded most of them struggled to work out which way the helmet went and should never be allowed anywhere near a quad, more suited to driving a desk or threading beads.

[buggerit]

they are getting a few different things, landcorp are doing the same,

and I agree, tractors used to kill the most, then quad bikes, and side by sides or utes that roll will cause just as much damage,

in the USA, side by side now out sell quads, and side by side injuries are now catching up to quad injuries as well,

If we added to all the tractor, 2 wheeler, horse , 4wd ute accidents we used to have it and compared to the quad accidents it would be interesting.
Fuck side by sides, useless at stockwork and if you have ever seen a quad come apart as it bounces down a gully you sure as hell dont want to be strapped into a side by side.
The worst thing they did for quads was put indepentant rear suspension in them , makes them a bastard for rolling because of there high c of g, the rear straight axle really stablised them rather than let the bike sag to the down hill side:eek5:

[Robbo]

Despite all the problems with operating quad bikes they are still a bloody side more stable than their predecessor
the mighty Three Wheeler. They were suicidal.

[scott411]

If we added to all the tractor, 2 wheeler, horse , 4wd ute accidents we used to have it and compared to the quad accidents it would be interesting.
Fuck side by sides, useless at stockwork and if you have ever seen a quad come apart as it bounces down a gully you sure as hell dont want to be strapped into a side by side.
The worst thing they did for quads was put indepentant rear suspension in them , makes them a bastard for rolling because of there high c of g, the rear straight axle really stablised them rather than let the bike sag to the down hill side:eek5:

I have seen plenty of straight rear axle quads roll over, and have done a few myself, I did not see a noticeable increase in roll overs with independent rear suspension, but man the ride is so much better, (from memory i have not rolled an independent rear axle quad) Honda dealers always rubbished Independent rear ends as they did not sell any quads with them, but its personal choice really, if you are doing alot of towing, a solid rear end is much better,

basically quads have got bigger, and faster, 20 years ago the biggest quads made were 400cc, now they are the smallest ones you can get, with quads up to 1000cc available,

I agree side by sides are not as good as some jobs as a quad, but they are much better at other jobs, I think a two wheeler and a side by side is the way i would go if i was running a farm, but each farm is different,

[buggerit]

I have seen plenty of straight rear axle quads roll over, and have done a few myself, I did not see a noticeable increase in roll overs with independent rear suspension, but man the ride is so much better, (from memory i have not rolled an independent rear axle quad) Honda dealers always rubbished Independent rear ends as they did not sell any quads with them, but its personal choice really, if you are doing alot of towing, a solid rear end is much better,

basically quads have got bigger, and faster, 20 years ago the biggest quads made were 400cc, now they are the smallest ones you can get, with quads up to 1000cc available,

I agree side by sides are not as good as some jobs as a quad, but they are much better at other jobs, I think a two wheeler and a side by side is the way i would go if i was running a farm, but each farm is different,

Myself and most of my mates would disagree with u about the stability of inderpendant rear ends, and yep, ive rolled a few and worn out quite a few.

[buggerit]

Despite all the problems with operating quad bikes they are still a bloody side more stable than their predecessor
the mighty Three Wheeler. They were suicidal.

Still got a 250es , bloody good fun

[R650R]

What kills them is the she'll be right attitude. I'm only going just up the road, across the paddock etc... then the cemetery afterwards.
Offender warned multiple times, commercial workplace, commercial level fine, nothing to argue about.
Similar culture shift in transport industry received same attitudes but some where along the line someone will have not been run over or crushed by falling freight due to some changes.

[Berg]

What almost killed me when I rolled my quad (400 racing quad) was the neck damage.
I managed to destroy my neck at C2-C4 taking out all movement (fortunately temporarily) below neck level. That should have in theory finished me off but I was lucky.
My helmet saved my head and the damage to it was extreme. Without all the safety gear I think I would have been vegetable at best and probably dead at worst.

[ducatilover]

Plenty enough fullas get brain damage from relatively minor fuck ups on quads, I know of a few who have and it is pretty terrible to see somebody struggle to live and function from a bop on the noggin.
I vote yes to helmets, but a 15k fine is fucking stupid.

[HenryDorsetCase]

What kills them is the she'll be right attitude. I'm only going just up the road, across the paddock etc... then the cemetery afterwards.
Offender warned multiple times, commercial workplace, commercial level fine, nothing to argue about.
Similar culture shift in transport industry received same attitudes but some where along the line someone will have not been run over or crushed by falling freight due to some changes.

Actually another example is the building trades. I have a few clients in that industry and if you want to get them frothing all you have to do is mention "Workplace Safety" and watch them go.....

[Berries]

Presumably the utility of a quad (i.e. its a mini ute or tractor) plus ease of operaton means they'be been entirely supplanted by these abortions (i.e. quads)?.
Got a couple of these on the farm. Weather proof, in that if it is pissing down you can get in it and get some shelter and some heat. So far they have only ever fallen on to their side, not rolled over completely, and definitely not rolled over backwards on a hill. We won't have quads on the farm anymore.

[FJRider]

OK this is how it works ..

Some element of truth in you post. But ACC have the say in rego costs ... as they (Quad bike accidents) are deemed by them as (and included in THEIR statistics as) Motorcycle accidents. Hence ... is added to the ACC levy's ...



Quad bikes and wanker farm crashes is why you road riders are paying so much in rego fees, they should have to have there own full insurance

Private health Insurance has nothing to with the ACC levy's being added to the rego costs. Nor will an increase in private insurance change ACC policy.Those "Wanker Farm crashes" victim is still entitled to ACC assistance ... even if he was at fault. Such is ACC policy.


There is enough "Idiot" (Two wheel) motorcyclists that should NOT get ACC assistance ... regardless if they DID have their own private insurance ... OR NOT ... !!!

[ducatilover]

Some element of truth in you post. But ACC have the say in rego costs ... as they (Quad bike accidents) are deemed by them as (and included in THEIR statistics as) Motorcycle accidents. Hence ... is added to the ACC levy's ...




Private health Insurance has nothing to with the ACC levy's being added to the rego costs. Nor will an increase in private insurance change ACC policy.Those "Wanker Farm crashes" victim is still entitled to ACC assistance ... even if he was at fault. Such is ACC policy.


There is enough "Idiot" (Two wheel) motorcyclists that should NOT get ACC assistance ... regardless if they DID have their own private insurance ... OR NOT ... !!!

Read Scott's post.

[jellywrestler]

Wrong, while some do make it through (those that occur on roads generally) it is due to data filing errors, not the design of the system, ie, they are already separate accounts.

do you have proof of that, in the old days ACC forms had questions like was it on a registered bike on a legal road but i think that's long gone

[scott411]

Some element of truth in you post. But ACC have the say in rego costs ... as they (Quad bike accidents) are deemed by them as (and included in THEIR statistics as) Motorcycle accidents. Hence ... is added to the ACC levy's ...




Private health Insurance has nothing to with the ACC levy's being added to the rego costs. Nor will an increase in private insurance change ACC policy.Those "Wanker Farm crashes" victim is still entitled to ACC assistance ... even if he was at fault. Such is ACC policy.


There is enough "Idiot" (Two wheel) motorcyclists that should NOT get ACC assistance ... regardless if they DID have their own private insurance ... OR NOT ... !!!

can you tell me were you get your information? as i have never seen any information from ACC saying such things, farm accidents are not counted in the motor vehicle account,

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/how-were-funded/index.htm

[FJRider]

can you tell me were you get your information? as i have never seen any information from ACC saying such things, farm accidents are not counted in the motor vehicle account,

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/how-were-funded/index.htm

I lived with an ACC employee for a while.

And not ALL quad bike accidents happen on farms. They are popular on lifestyle blocks, for fishing/hunting, racing ... and just fucking around on ..

[Berries]

I lived with an ACC employee for a while.
Can you claim for that?

[scott411]

I lived with an ACC employee for a while.

And not ALL quad bike accidents happen on farms. They are popular on lifestyle blocks, for fishing/hunting, racing ... and just fucking around on ..

yes, but unless they are on a public road, or a beach, they are not counted on the Motor Vehcile account, (unless the form is completed wrong, which I said would happen)

I agree, It is not right that when a car is at fault it is still counted as a motorcycle accident on the road for their recording purposes,

[FJRider]

yes, but unless they are on a public road, or a beach, they are not counted on the Motor Vehcile account, (unless the form is completed wrong, which I said would happen)

Change your word Account ... to category ... it may help understand a little better.

For example ... some chainsaw accidents are Forestry accidents. Not ALL forestry accidents are chainsaw accidents. Nor are all chainsaw accident forestry accidents. But a chainsaw accident is always a chainsaw accident. (Chainsaw involved ... Chainsaw accident)


I agree, It is not right that when a car is at fault it is still counted as a motorcycle accident on the road for their recording purposes,

ACC is "No fault insurance" ... who is at fault is of NO consequence. A motorcycle involved is always listed as a motorcycle accident. The Claimant will ALWAYS say they were in a MOTORCYCLE accident ... as they WERE riding a motorcycle.

Motocross bike accidents are also added to their motorcycle crash statistics ...



Stat's can prove what ever you want proved.

[FJRider]

Can you claim for that?

I did .... I claimed Insanity.

But that's another story ...

[bogan]

do you have proof of that, in the old days ACC forms had questions like was it on a registered bike on a legal road but i think that's long gone

I can certainly recal seeing a distinction on a form, and have talked about it with a guy who does CAS stuff back when the ACC levy thingo was in full swing. But the specific search term to find said info escapes me atm.

[Milts]

Not about to jump into the politics of the fine, because I'm not sure what my opinion is on that.

However re stats: A large proportion of the injuries are head injuries.

ATV (quad bike) injuries in New Zealand children: their extent and severity (http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1302/3786/) / New Zealand Medical Journal, 2009

There were 218 confirmed cases of ATV injury. Mechanisms of injury were: a fall from the ATV, 105 cases (48%), a collision, 59 cases (31%), rolling 31 cases (14%) [...] The majority of injuries were orthopaedic, soft tissue injuries and head injuries.


Quad bike injuries in Waikato, New Zealand: an institutional review from 2007-2011. / Australia and New Zealand Journal of Surgery, 2013

From the local database of 13 400 trauma patients, 101 patients with ATV-related injury or death were identified. [...] A large number of head injuries were found.

Surgeons call for tighter regulation of quad bikes (http://www.surgeons.org/media/293490/MED_2011-09-14_Surgeons_call_for_tighter_regulation_of_quad_bi kes.pdf) / Media release, Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, 2011

Australian hospital data suggests they are responsible for 8 to 11 per cent of all on-farm injuries, and rollover of the vehicle was associated with the largest number of fatalities (39 per cent). Head injuries occurred in 24 per cent of cases.

[skippa1]

I was driving home last night, was between Patea and Waverley, and a older gentleman was riding a quad on the road in a 100km/hr zone(I am guessing between farm gates) with a small child sitting in front of him. The child would have been no older than 3, neither were wearing any safety gear. He was going pretty much balls to the wall and it didn't look stable. The Fuel tanker in front of me gave him a blast on the horn and had to brake as the quad wasn't holding a consistent line. The farmer flicked him the bird.:finger:

you can't help stupid. Maybe $15k fine might force him to think safety.

[Berries]

I can certainly recal seeing a distinction on a form, and have talked about it with a guy who does CAS stuff back when the ACC levy thingo was in full swing. But the specific search term to find said info escapes me atm.
In your NZTA/CAS data the bike should be classed as Other, not a Motorbike. But the info will only be there if it crashes on the road, for instance it crashed while crossing the road between paddocks. If it was in his paddock the data won't exist with NZTA/CAS, you'd have to try Workplace NZ or whatever OSH are called this week.

No idea what the ACC data look like. And this takes us right back to the ACC levy thing and their base information. When the MOT or NZTA quote figures of the number of motorcycle injuries then it does not include quad bikes off road, or motocross bikes. ACC? Who knows. If scott411 is right then they are separate as long as the person filling in the form was truthful - apparently a lot of facial injures received in a "car crash" in some areas though are actually caused by not cooking the man his eggs so the distinction between farm bike and road bike may not be all that clear.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Not about to jump into the politics of the fine, because I'm not sure what my opinion is on that.

However re stats: A large proportion of the injuries are head injuries.

ATV (quad bike) injuries in New Zealand children: their extent and severity (http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1302/3786/) / New Zealand Medical Journal, 2009



Quad bike injuries in Waikato, New Zealand: an institutional review from 2007-2011. / Australia and New Zealand Journal of Surgery, 2013


Surgeons call for tighter regulation of quad bikes (http://www.surgeons.org/media/293490/MED_2011-09-14_Surgeons_call_for_tighter_regulation_of_quad_bi kes.pdf) / Media release, Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, 2011

Whoever posted and said "this isn't a motorbike thing, its a workplace safety thing, and if he was doing doughnuts in a forklift* the business would be fined at the same level" put it into the proper perspective for me.


*bloody good fun by the way.

[Oakie]

Whoever posted and said "this isn't a motorbike thing, its a workplace safety thing, and if he was doing doughnuts in a forklift* the business would be fined at the same level" put it into the proper perspective for me. .

Yup. Spot on.
Just a point ... part of the thread title is "what kills them". Remember this issue is not just about people who hit the jackpoint and die ... it's the much larger group who have accidents and finish up with long term injuries. While the OP is probably right that the majority of fatalities will be crush injuries ... there'll be many more who survive but with the legacy of an ongoing injury. Helmets on!

[Grumph]

Yup. Spot on.
Just a point ... part of the thread title is "what kills them". Remember this issue is not just about people who hit the jackpoint and die ... it's the much larger group who have accidents and finish up with long term injuries. While the OP is probably right that the majority of fatalities will be crush injuries ... there'll be many more who survive but with the legacy of an ongoing injury. Helmets on!

Um, anecdotal evidence from the guys i know with long term injuries and disabilities from quad accidents suggests that crush injuries may actually be preponderant....it's only a small sample of course....but one of those on top of you hurts - even if it doesn't kill.

[GavinB]

For what it's worth, and possibly a wee bit tangential to the OP...

The costs are driven by surviving with a Traumatic Brain Injury or Spinal Cord Injury (or multiple amputations, serious burns etc).

Strictly speaking, when we kill ourselves is relatively cheap.

And the earlier post re the Accounts (Motor Vehicle vs Work) was correct including about beaches etc.

Gavin

[Asher]

Ive never crashed a quad but ive ridden them a fair bit. I would have thought most of the injuries from crashing one would be a crushing injuring. I feel it would be unlikely that someone would get very hurt falling from quad but rather the quad falling onto them. There is plenty of exposed steel bar on quads to make a mess of your head/chest if one was to roll on to you.

As for mandatory helmets; those ag-hats are pretty bloody useless.

[Winston001]

Farmers wash there cow shed floor every milking, but the bike gets a wash when it goes to the shop every 6 months or so, they really are ignorent they do not look after there work tools

True but understandable. When I was a lad we seldom washed the tractor or the farm bike. It seemed pointless because it would be out in the mud/dust again next morning. We did go around with the grease gun occasionally.

4 wheelers are low to the ground cleaning isn't easy. A simple solution would be a raised platform beside a hose - ride up - 30 secs wash underneath - ride off.

[Winston001]

Whatever happened to roll-over frames on quads? I thought they were going to be made compulsory.

[Ocean1]

Whatever happened to roll-over frames on quads? I thought they were going to be made compulsory.

The Kiwi one? http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-invented-quad-bike-roll-bar-picked-up-in-aus-video-5331956

Or the Aussie one? http://www.quadbar.com.au/

The squashy one actually looks useful, I still wouldn't like to see them made compulsory. Unless it was an "either / or helmet" deal.

And then, you'd have to get it past the bike manufacturer's warrantee issue, which simply wouldn't happen.

[Grumph]

Whatever happened to roll-over frames on quads? I thought they were going to be made compulsory.

Not feasible unless you combine them with belts and arm restraints. Even more crush injuries when an unrestrained rider is under a rolled quad.....

[SPman]

I see DOC are ditching all quads from their land and replacing them with those wee Suzuki jeeps.

I'd venture to suggest that quads are safer than the tractors/ag bikes they replaced. Which were safert than the horses....

So, where's the evidence that wee Suzuki jeeps will be any safer? The same place as the evidence that helmets on quads in mud at walking pace save lives?

Fk'n panzy-arsed fukwits. And I bet those 3 wheel abominations killed/injured more than the rest put together.....

[avgas]

Mountain Lions. Big Nasty Mountain Lions.

[Ocean1]

And I bet those 3 wheel abominations killed/injured more than the rest put together.....

They had a habit, (when you put a foot down) of climbing up your leg and completely fucking your knee.

Apart from that they were an excellent device.

[Oakie]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10057558/Quad-bike-rolls-on-woman ... today

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10057558/Quad-bike-rolls-on-woman ... today

:(

was speed a factor? and was she wearing a helmet?

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-729112670.htm

clearly this is the answer. First bike I ever rode. First bike I ever got airborne. First bike I ever fell off of. All within 60 seconds of each other.

[Robbo]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-729112670.htm

clearly this is the answer. First bike I ever rode. First bike I ever got airborne. First bike I ever fell off of. All within 60 seconds of each other.

Yep, they were shockers alright, especially trying to go around corners on a wet road. Those big fat tyres wanted to go every way but where they were supposed to. They were great on the beach though.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We were riding in what was called the shingle pit. basically where they quarried gravel for the local roads. there were big piles and holes and stuff and all the local kids with motorbikes used to ride round in it.

In a kind of "Good old days" moment I was just thinking that you wouldnt get near a place like that today. It would be crawling with people in hi viz and hardhats carrying clipboards and walkie talkies. The one we were in didnt even have a gate!...

Pleased to report no deaths or injuries, plus learning to ride a motorbike in a place like that teaches you valuable lessons. The value of gloves and kneepads frinstance. Cor, those were the days.

[scott411]

this guy would added to the road bike statistics if he had crashed,

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10076682/Quad-bike-rider-arrested-after-police-pursuit

[MD]

I can't be stuffed reading all these posts but to answer the opening question: why do people die riding quads, it's simple. They are not motorcyclists.

I've ridden quads many times and in my youth those ridiculously dangerous earlier versions that were three wheelers. Both were inherently dangerous vehicles best left to those familiar with two wheeled motorbikes. End of story.
If you aren't familiar with how to control a 2 wheeled motorbike, then stay the hell off quad bikes.

I doubt an experienced motorcyclist would come to grief on a quad. We have a higher level of appreciation of the dynamics of bikes.

[Akzle]

I can't be stuffed reading all these posts but to answer the opening question: why do people die riding quads, it's simple. They are not motorcyclists.

I've ridden quads many times and in my youth those ridiculously dangerous earlier versions that were three wheelers. Both were inherently dangerous vehicles best left to those familiar with two wheeled motorbikes. End of story.
If you aren't familiar with how to control a 2 wheeled motorbike, then stay the hell off quad bikes.

I doubt an experienced motorcyclist would come to grief on a quad. We have a higher level of appreciation of the dynamics of bikes.

quads have different "dynamics".
' to mention steering.
You can traverse so far, stable as shit, but once you reach tipping point... Game over.

[unstuck]

We were riding in what was called the shingle pit. basically where they quarried gravel for the local roads. there were big piles and holes and stuff and all the local kids with motorbikes used to ride round in it.

In a kind of "Good old days" moment I was just thinking that you wouldnt get near a place like that today. It would be crawling with people in hi viz and hardhats carrying clipboards and walkie talkies. The one we were in didnt even have a gate!...

Pleased to report no deaths or injuries, plus learning to ride a motorbike in a place like that teaches you valuable lessons. The value of gloves and kneepads frinstance. Cor, those were the days.

There is a spot along the river down here that is like that, no gates, no hi-viz, on public land too. There is a local company that is going to give it,s employees the day off to give the area a good clean up, because some shitheads have been dumping a bit of rubbish down there.

[MD]

quads have different "dynamics".
' to mention steering.
You can traverse so far, stable as shit, but once you reach tipping point... Game over.

Agree they are different vehicles in many ways, especially how they behave and suddenly throw you. I think people going from riding bikes to quads are better skilled though to cope with a quad, than people who have only ever driven cars. Especially dirt bike riders - who know they can dump you!

[Akzle]

Agree they are different vehicles in many ways, especially how they behave and suddenly throw you. I think people going from riding bikes to quads are better skilled though to cope with a quad, than people who have only ever driven cars. Especially dirt bike riders - who know they can dump you!

but that riding a bike doesn't make you good at quads, nor do i think the skills are really that transferable.

bikers > carsers,
that's just fact all over the place, so it stands to reason that they're generally better at life.

[SMOKEU]

I doubt an experienced motorcyclist would come to grief on a quad.

Mix a bit of bad luck with stupidity, and anything can happen.

[FJRider]

Mix a bit of bad luck with stupidity, and anything can happen.

A dash of bravado ... with a bit of bad timing ... leads to the same thing. Risk taking is a favorite Kiwi past time. (for young and old) When nothing untoward happens ... we pat ourselves on the back for having the skills ...

When shit DOES happen ... the search for blame starts ... (It can't be MY fault .. !!)

Experience (with no previous problems) can lead to pushing the boundary's of what is possible ... in dubious conditions or unfamiliar locations. (I never thought THAT would happen ... !!!)

[Winston001]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/10051594/Quad-bike-helmet-fine-unjustifiable


I would have thought it would be crush injuries and broken necks.



Back on topic, I'm having trouble seeing how these accidents happen in the first place. I've ridden farm quads and they are low slung creatures with a wide footprint. IMHO you'd have to really try to tip one over.

[bogan]

It would not be too difficult to develop a tip sensor alarm which goes off when the bike has reached its safe tilt limit.

We looked into that, cos a lot of the bike's dynamics is to do with how the rider/gear/dog loads the bike, a simple gyro wouldn't be enough. Suspension and tyre pressures would be possible, but, such an approach completely overlooks the sudden nature of a rollover; hills are often bumpy as shit. Balancing safety tolerance to be realistic enough to catch serious incidents but not give too many false positives to get it discounted entirely would be very very difficult; not to mention having fuck all uptake anyway.

[Big Dog]

Back on topic, I'm having trouble seeing how these accidents happen in the first place. I've ridden farm quads and they are low slung creatures with a wide footprint. IMHO you'd have to really try to tip one over.

Also they often carry large tool kits, large animals or worse liquid loads. A sprayer can be the max laden weight sans rider.

Not too bad when full I a little slow to turn. But as you take the liquid out the bike becomes less stable and more prone to a tip.
The one I rode like that was stable as anything full but pitched an swayed all over the show when 1/2 full. 120+ litres slopping around took care of any macho ideas I had about anything my ex could do this city boy could do better. Took a pretty steady nerve to go half tilt on relatively flat dirt track. The arse took a few bites at half full.

Not for me. I traded for the farm bike at the next stop. Mind you she got me to ride it out of the gulch after lunch. A bit steep for her liking. Bit steep for mine too but never let a damsel down...


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Akzle]

It would not be too difficult to develop a tip sensor alarm which goes off when the bike has reached its safe tilt limit.

its actually not too difficult to not flip the cunts.
Being said, i dont know anyone, self included, that hasnt flipped one at least once.

[unstuck]

Seen plenty of road bike riders fuck things up on quads, so that guys theory is a load of bollocks:tugger: . Humans are stupid fuckers. There is a massive weight coming down on you if your unlucky enough to be under one when things go wrong. They can be an awesome work tool in the right hands, and a potential disaster when used by muppets, which 99% of the humans on this planet are.:devil2:

[unstuck]

It would not be too difficult to develop a tip sensor alarm which goes off when the bike has reached its safe tilt limit.

What the fuck you smoking. by the time it gets to safe tipping point where an alarm kicks in, your already fucked.:brick:

[scott411]

Safe tilt meaning they maximum point they can be safely tilted. You would not set it at the point where it actually tips. if you can think of a better idea state it?

the problem is that you are going forward at speed, and the difference between tipping, and not tipping is micro seconds, you would already need to be reacting when the alarm will go off, the time between the alarm going off, and you reacting is to long,

[ellipsis]

There would be a chance of the alarm going off though if you are not travelling at an excessive speed for the terrain though. Too many people think they can handle high speed on any terrain maybe.

...a bit like hearing the train whistle just as you drove onto the tracks when the train is upon you...(why the fuck am I even replying to your trite wank)...take the bus...

[bogan]

There would be a chance of the alarm going off though if you are not travelling at an excessive speed for the terrain though. Too many people think they can handle high speed on any terrain maybe.

So, in small print "safety alarm only effective if the rider is already riding safely" ? :facepalm: yeh, can't see that one selling too good :killingme

[bogan]

Considering they can tip over at any speed the slower you are going the more chance of the alarm working. How about you put your energy into posting a tip over warning idea yourself or are you too frightened of the idea being attacked by others on here like yourself? Or maybe you are just not bright enough!!

Did you mis the post where I said we had investigated exactly this idea? I can tell you we spent more than 10 mins bitching away on the internet about it too, by actually doing a bit of research you'd learn it is impractical, as many of us here are pointing out.
The only way this works is by providing continuous rider feedback as to how close they are to tip-over so they learn to avoid such situations in future, this requires the rider to a) look/listen to that feedback and b) that information to be (and feel) more accurate than the normal rider feedback.

So to summarise, my tip over warning idea, is learn to ride you thunderous shitlord!

[unstuck]

if you can think of a better idea state it?

Ban the use of them by fuckwits.:bleh:

[bogan]

Yes I did read the post where you researchd it but not everyone gives up at the research stage and prototypes are made and designs are tweeked. All it would take is someone to do different research to you and take the next step and build a prototype which may not necessarily be in the form of sensors but fancy roll bar set ups which I have seen in the old press article over the years. You have just put anyone else off putting an idea on here as you wil likely attack them too.

Wait, you think you put up an idea that I attacked? You've said nothing new, and nothing of value, and used very little logic; that's why I call you a fucking pleb. Let me know if you have an actual idea and I'll take it seriously as I always have done.

[Akzle]

:girlfight: :corn:

[bogan]

Are you a kiwi by any chance because if you are not that would explain your attitude as if kiwis want to do something they often ignore theorists like yourself and do it anyway and are often successful. Pleb yourself!!

Sure am, raised on a farm the family has had so long the road bears our name. Spent much time in the shed actually building things, so there goes your theorist theory too :innocent:

Also, pleb is a noun, not a verb so one can't pleb oneself :shutup:

Perhaps you should stick to vague 'ideas' instead of trying personal attacks as yours have all the 'bite' of a post menopausal growler after being ravaged by the south african rugby team.

[ducatilover]

Safe tilt meaning they maximum point they can be safely tilted. You would not set it at the point where it actually tips. if you can think of a better idea state it?

Does it take in to account the load of the quad? Or how fat the rider is? Or...
Why don't we educate riders on quads or stop giving a fuck and let idiots die.
Or, you can go play cotton wool lean buzzers games with your sandal wearing mates :bleh:

[oldrider]

Are you a kiwi by any chance because if you are not that would explain your attitude as if kiwis want to do something they often ignore theorists like yourself and do it anyway and are often successful. Pleb yourself!!


:girlfight: :corn:


Sure am, raised on a farm the family has had so long the road bears our name. Spent much time in the shed actually building things, so there goes your theorist theory too :innocent:

Also, pleb is a noun, not a verb so one can't pleb oneself :shutup:

Perhaps you should stick to vague 'ideas' instead of trying personal attacks as yours have all the 'bite' of a post menopausal growler after being ravaged by the south african rugby team.


Does it take in to account the load of the quad? Or how fat the rider is? Or...
Why don't we educate riders on quads or stop giving a fuck and let idiots die.
Or, you can go play cotton wool lean buzzers games with your sandal wearing mates :bleh:

KB ... a place where like minded can enjoy social intercourse, exchange views and ideas, maybe even become friends! :killingme

[bogan]

KB ... a place where like minded can enjoy social intercourse, exchange views and ideas, maybe even become friends! :killingme

Naaaahhhh mate, it's for talking shit and laughing at fat nerds, neckbeards, and plebs. Scores ten tenths in those categories.

[oldrider]

Naaaahhhh mate, it's for talking shit and laughing at fat nerds, neckbeards, and plebs. Scores ten tenths in those categories.

True! ... :drinknsin