Kawasaki ER6

[Shaun Harris]

so who has one that would be mad enough to let me race it for them in the F3 class? Fuk it, if you do not ask you do not get and Im sick of not racing now, enough is enough

[Drew]

so who has one that would be mad enough to let me race it for them in the F3 class? Fuk it, if you do not ask you do not get and Im sick of not racing now, enough is enoughThought you wanted to come sidecar racing? Kai was looking to lease the Agip recently.

[nodrog]

Thought you were doing IOM this year?

Thought you were moving to UK?

Thought you were sidecar racing?

Thought you were all better now?

[nodrog]

If anybody has an er6 they can lend Shaun, give it to me instead. I have a MNZ licence.

[Shaun Harris]

haha back at ya

[Bert]

Heres one for you Shaun
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-706901870.htm

[Shaun Harris]

Heres one for you Shaun
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-706901870.htm








Be a good unit for some one with the money Bert

[BuzzardNZ]

Heres one for you Shaun
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-706901870.htm

Looks like a nice setup. Anyone know what kind of HP something like that would be putting out?

[Shaun Harris]

Looks like a nice setup. Anyone know what kind of HP something like that would be putting out?






90 HP is a piece of piss to get out of them, I know of 3 in Ireland putting out 99HP on same dyno

[nodrog]

90 HP is a piece of piss to get out of them, I know of 3 in Ireland putting out 99HP on same dyno

Yeah I used to have a fucked dyno too.

[Shaun Harris]

Yeah I used to have a fucked dyno too.





ya must have I guess as those are normall av low HP figures for a tuned ER6

[Drew]

ya must have I guess as those are normall av low HP figures for a tuned ER6

They'd be competitive in F2 with those figures.

[Shaun Harris]

They'd be competitive in F2 with those figures.







I have seen dyno sheets showing 101 from a er6

[BuzzardNZ]

I have seen dyno sheets showing 101 from a er6

Charts don't mean much to me. A dyno chart produced for my SV claimed 150 HP!!!!, when in reality it may have something like 110.

[Shaun Harris]

Charts don't mean much to me. A dyno chart produced for my SV claimed 150 HP!!!!, when in reality it may have something like 110.






maybe to you, but the sheets I am seeing are from aknown proffessional tuner Dyno

[BuzzardNZ]

maybe to you, but the sheets I am seeing are from aknown proffessional tuner Dyno


I was told the same thing.

[Drew]

maybe to you, but the sheets I am seeing are from aknown proffessional tuner Dyno

The graph is moot without a baseline. When Ray dynoed my superbike for Ed, it was pumpin' 187 ponies at the tread. Had I taken it straight to motomart, I bet anything you like it would have said over 200.

Baselines are the most critical part in any experiment, or the results are meaningless.

[Shaun Harris]

The graph is moot without a baseline. When Ray dynoed my superbike for Ed, it was pumpin' 187 ponies at the tread. Had I taken it straight to motomart, I bet anything you like it would have said over 200.

Baselines are the most critical part in any experiment, or the results are meaningless.







rrrr a proffressional tuner has a base line fool

[Drew]

rrrr a proffressional tuner has a base line fool

Calm down wee fella. They do a baseline with whatever they're tuning, yip. Without knowing the figures that were given in those runs, your '99' is completely arbitrary.

Even with the start out number, a true baseline is still not achieved.

[Shaun Harris]

Calm down wee fella. They do a baseline with whatever they're tuning, yip. Without knowing the figures that were given in those runs, your '99' is completely arbitrary.

Even with the start out number, a true baseline is still not achieved.







and round and round we go

[Drew]

and round and round we go

Not at all. You take it on faith that a 650cc twin is capable of 100 horse power. I am of the opinion that a 60% increase in power from that motor, better include a big fucken strap around the cases so they don't fly to bits.

[nodrog]

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090707092927/mrmen/images/3/35/TVMr._Bump.jpg

[mr bucketracer]

The graph is moot without a baseline. When Ray dynoed my superbike for Ed, it was pumpin' 187 ponies at the tread. Had I taken it straight to motomart, I bet anything you like it would have said over 200.

Baselines are the most critical part in any experiment, or the results are meaningless.and rays dyno read 11 hp more on a standard 600 than my dyno jet:brick:

[FROSTY]

Not at all. You take it on faith that a 650cc twin is capable of 100 horse power. I am of the opinion that a 60% increase in power from that motor, better include a big fucken strap around the cases so they don't fly to bits.
I thought the er was 75 ish out of the crate?
I suspect though the limitations of our F3 rules means 85 is a more realistic figure.

[Drew]

and rays dyno read 11 hp more on a standard 600 than my dyno jet:brick:

This isn't a pissing contest. All dynoes give different readings.

The point is that since all dynoes give different readings, there IS NO BASELINE!

[scott411]

Not at all. You take it on faith that a 650cc twin is capable of 100 horse power. I am of the opinion that a 60% increase in power from that motor, better include a big fucken strap around the cases so they don't fly to bits.

i think you may be right, but not many motors have won a isle of man TT and the springfield mile in the same year, not bad for a commuter bike,

[neil_cb125t]

I thought the er was 75 ish out of the crate?
I suspect though the limitations of our F3 rules means 85 is a more realistic figure.

Stock Std is around 65-70 at the wheel depending on your bar code reader/Dyno...... the limitations of F3 don't really matter allot WRT max power - its how well you build the donk. Std rods will handle 80hp, maybe a little more........once you get more manly power ( closer to what shauns talking about ) then you need to get some stronger rods and do some good bottom end work.......not to make the power but to keep it together. if we could go aftermarket airbox and carbs then 100+HP easy PEASEY

Its quite easy to make the motor make power - they just weigh a ton......the stock crank without the flywheel, balance shaft or any thing on the crank is nearly 10kg!!!!! have a look at the attachments and you'll see stage one before and after, we have actually taken MORE off the crank since adding the carrillos.

[Shaun Harris]

Stock Std is around 65-70 at the wheel depending on your bar code reader/Dyno...... the limitations of F3 don't really matter allot WRT max power - its how well you build the donk. Std rods will handle 80hp, maybe a little more........once you get more manly power ( closer to what shauns talking about ) then you need to get some stronger rods and do some good bottom end work.......not to make the power but to keep it together. if we could go aftermarket airbox and carbs then 100+HP easy PEASEY

Its quite easy to make the motor make power - they just weigh a ton......the stock crank without the flywheel, balance shaft or any thing on the crank is nearly 10kg!!!!! have a look at the attachments and you'll see stage one before and after, we have actually taken MORE off the crank since adding the carrillos.







It is just typicall of a Kawasaki motor to be so over engineered. worked on well they really can haul ass

[RobGassit]

And that's why they don't grenade like SV's.

[Mental Trousers]

And that's why they don't grenade like SV's.

That's right, they explode in totally different ways. Just ask neil_cb125t

[Shaun Harris]

That's right, they explode in totally different ways. Just ask neil_cb125t







unfair dude, one mtr in NZ you are refering too. Take a look at how many are raced in the UK to around the spec I mentioned above.

[BuzzardNZ]

Don't get me wrong, I think the ER-6 is a great wee bike for what it was intended for, but I find it mind boggling that anyone would
drop $30k on mods for one ( see http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-706901870.htm ) to get it up to that spec when there are way better bikes available for half the price.

[FROSTY]

hey chappy --im aways outa the loop so forgive my ignorance-I thought the limiting factor with the kiwi bikes was the airbox rules.
Crikey you could buy a rocketship engine and it just won't be able to breath?

[neil_cb125t]

Don't get me wrong, I think the ER-6 is a great wee bike for what it was intended for, but I find it mind boggling that anyone would
drop $30k on mods for one ( see http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-706901870.htm ) to get it up to that spec when there are way better bikes available for half the price.

Hmmmmm don't trust everything you read - I bought an engine from the US for around $1500-2000nz. Then another 3-4k on full rebuild/tune/power commanders/exhausts to make 88ish HP at the wheel.... that was evo I - that had STD rods and no slipper clutch....... then when I over revved it on a down change it let go (my belief is a rod stretched on over rev and piston touched the head, cracking the top end of the rod ) as the other cylinder was fine.

Carrillo Rods and slipper clutch were only around $1800 US.... rest of the motor was left as it was (rebuilt to the same specs) - infact we gave the piston to head more clearance and lessened the cam timing and got MORE POWER.

Every F3 bike that you want to run at the top of the class will cost you money - not like tires and petrol and crap, like order your own titanium and make your own titanium exhaust, carbon fibre wheels money..........

Protwin/SV650 class is there for those who don't .

[neil_cb125t]

hey chappy --im aways outa the loop so forgive my ignorance-I thought the limiting factor with the kiwi bikes was the airbox rules.
Crikey you could buy a rocketship engine and it just won't be able to breath?

Yeah defo is the ONLY thing that limits you - but at 90+RWHP its not really that limiting, Svs cant seem to match that - im still running a lot of std stuff that could be modded - valves/top end etc. At the mo the only bikes that have more power are the 2 stroke 400cc thingys.

Wonder how many types/versions of std airbox there are..........??????:msn-wink:

[neil_cb125t]

unfair dude, one mtr in NZ you are refering too. Take a look at how many are raced in the UK to around the spec I mentioned above.

Yep and that was because I thought the UK guys said the std rods were fine..... I was wrong ( they said carrillos were fine) ......I also did the damage myself.. they also run STD cranks......!!!not lightened at all... last time I looked.

[Grumph]

hey chappy --im aways outa the loop so forgive my ignorance-I thought the limiting factor with the kiwi bikes was the airbox rules.
Crikey you could buy a rocketship engine and it just won't be able to breath?

The one I built to F3 rules was definitely not limited by the stock airbox. I'm pretty sure it would have given over 100 at the wheel with the right pipe - 96 on the Ashburton Dyno. But looking at the probs chappy has had i don't know how it would have lasted. Shot peened std rods and properly set up bottom end - but that wasn't what let go. #1 exhaust valve seat dropped out cooling on the dyno...and the owner didn't pick what had happened when he next fired it up. Oops...

Back in the day we got over 80 out of the 500's with the aid of exotic fuels - using std rods and pistons too. The 650's are a shitload better head setup.

[neil_cb125t]

The one I built to F3 rules was definitely not limited by the stock airbox. I'm pretty sure it would have given over 100 at the wheel with the right pipe - 96 on the Ashburton Dyno. But looking at the probs chappy has had i don't know how it would have lasted. Shot peened std rods and properly set up bottom end - but that wasn't what let go. #1 exhaust valve seat dropped out cooling on the dyno...and the owner didn't pick what had happened when he next fired it up. Oops...

Back in the day we got over 80 out of the 500's with the aid of exotic fuels - using std rods and pistons too. The 650's are a shitload better head setup.

Yep my total power is on Chris Osbournes dyno - motormarts reads around 10% over so 100 at the wheel there would be easy. I had shot peened the rods, but was running the JE pistons, a lot heavier than stock - the stocks seem good IF you can get the compression high enough with them.

Agreed on exhaust - new one built, we trailed a poo stainless version, got good gains everywhere - pics attached........

The heads are way better I hear - they take a lot of porting to get them breathing.

If you guys want more dets on mine email me neil.chappell@ymail.com

Put it this way - US ones struggle to make over 85 at the wheel, the only guys making more than kiwis are the brits at IOM.....so think we are doing pretty good:headbang:

[neil_cb125t]

pipey pipey no 2...... we have been running stainless leo vince race headers slightly modified, since the beginning - now its fully TI from the sump back in the end can.

so who can guess how heavy the entire system is.........

[richban]

pipey pipey no 2...... we have been running stainless leo vince race headers slightly modified, since the beginning - now its fully TI from the sump back in the end can.

so who can guess how heavy the entire system is.........

My best guess is Not Very Heavy. I'm close right? 3.2kg

[Grumph]

The pipe on the one I did was a Leo Vince - I didn't like it, headers were too small IMO, no proper system length either.

Based on what worked on the 500's I'd have built a 2:1 with 26inches of 1 5/8in OD headers and a tailpipe ideally 1 15/16 od (but i'd probably have had to settle for 2in) around 26in before a 2in bore straight thru muffler.

As chappy has heard from me before i think i went with bigger cams than most have tried - I knew what worked on the 500's and didn't see why people were using milder cams on the 650. Your bro Kev, Rich, pointed me at Toyota 4AGE grinds as the 650 buckets are the same diameter...and there's a heap to choose from.

[neil_cb125t]

My best guess is Not Very Heavy. I'm close right? 3.2kg

I must have blabbed ......not too many pipes are that incl springs, not bad considering the endcan is 1100grams - need to find lighter packing

Now if only I didn't weigh 94KGs:(

[neil_cb125t]

The pipe on the one I did was a Leo Vince - I didn't like it, headers were too small IMO, no proper system length either.

Based on what worked on the 500's I'd have built a 2:1 with 26inches of 1 5/8in OD headers and a tailpipe ideally 1 15/16 od (but i'd probably have had to settle for 2in) around 26in before a 2in bore straight thru muffler.

As chappy has heard from me before i think i went with bigger cams than most have tried - I knew what worked on the 500's and didn't see why people were using milder cams on the 650. Your bro Kev, Rich, pointed me at Toyota 4AGE grinds as the 650 buckets are the same diameter...and there's a heap to choose from.

yeah you just have to try each idea out aye - we literally tried a bunch of ugly but different ideas out on the DYNO..... We haven't even tried new cam grinds as yet....

[wayne]

arata make a ti exhaust ........

[neil_cb125t]

arata make a ti exhaust ........

not anymore they don't - haven't for years. They weren't able to bolt on for ZXR400/ER650s either...