Is it too easy for tourists to come here and kill people?

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/10110212/Gorgeous-girls-killed-in-car-crash

Plus that fucking Chinese bint that killed the two motorbike riders last year, plus the other chinese cunt that killed the young dude.

Kiwi drivers are fucking hopeless, we all know that, but we have also all heard or had the near misses with fucking tourists. I remember coming round a corner on the West Coast on the bike and some useless cunt is stopped in the middle of the road taking pictures. I missed him by about 300mm because he was standing on the driver side of the van taking photos of the other side of the road. Fucker.

Wonder whether there will be any will to do anything now two young innocent white girls from a wealthy suburb have been murdered by this fucking hemp smoking licorice eating fuckwit?

[Katman]

Wonder whether there will be any will to do anything now two young innocent white girls from a wealthy suburb have been murdered by this fucking hemp smoking licorice eating fuckwit?

As I've said before, it's all too easy to look the wrong way when driving in a country with the opposite road rules.

I'm sure plenty of Kiwi tourists have been guilty of exactly the same thing.

As for the 'hemp smoking' part - not a particularly rational response from a lawyer.

[unstuck]

Why would anyone want to smoke hemp.:weird:
Unless you are into headaches that is.:rolleyes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

As for the 'hemp smoking' part - not a particularly rational response from a lawyer.

I am all about the broad brush.

[Woodman]

Tourism industry = Collateral damage.:shutup:

[R650R]

I think we're all a greater danger to ourselves and each other well before tourists, especially from stats point of view.
There's an opportunity here for someone tech orientated to design a lane navigation type device that detects when driving on wrong side of road and emits an alarm and flashed vehicle headlamps etc...
Govt could mandate all campervans to have it fitted.
I think long term the problem will solve itself mostly as traffic congestion increases to the point even in South Island that it will be obvious where you drive.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/07/volvo-lane-departure-warning-graphic-580.jpg

[AllanB]

Worst thing is the latest import drive had a total amount of driving experience at 'home' of around one month .........

It is interesting in our H&S regulated workplaces that rental companies hiring to tourists do not need to ensure they do some form of compulsory training course first. Yeepers I've had to get site safe qualified to walk onto a domestic home rebuild site.

In 1998, 0.3 per cent of fatal crashes nationally involved drivers with an overseas licence, while in 2012 it was 5 per cent and, last year, it was 6.4 per cent.

Hmmmm better get on the phone to Nic Smith and have him put in place a extremely high ACC levy on tourists who are driving in NZ.

[SMOKEU]

Poorly trained drivers who are in a foreign country with foreign rules, with narrow, badly maintained roads (compared to the main highways in their countries), often driving a significantly bigger vehicle than they've ever driven before. Throw in a bit of jet lag too. What could possibly go wrong?

[slofox]

Whilst I take your point Mr Dorsetcase, it is also true that we hear little about the thousands of kilometres that tourists here travel without mishap.

I have seen plenty of really fucking stupid driving by locals too. And have had a few near misses (and one crash) at such hands.

Having said that, I doubt I would drive at all in a country that used the opposite side of the road. Too used to driving on the left - I'd probably fuck up at least once with who knows what consequences.

[george formby]

Poorly trained drivers who are in a foreign country with foreign rules, with narrow, badly maintained roads (compared to the main highways in their countries), often driving a significantly bigger vehicle than they've ever driven before. Throw in a bit of jet lag too. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, I think you nailed it. They have not "suddenly" become poor drivers.
And campervan / car hire business is increasing.

Driving on the other side of the road ain't too hard. Spent plenty of time in Y'erp with no issues at all. Plenty of shit, twisty roads up there as well so again no real excuse in my book but compounds poor driving.
Not thinking & not looking is the problem. As usual.

[skippa1]

Whilst I take your point Mr Dorsetcase, it is also true that we hear little about the thousands of kilometres that tourists here travel without mishap.

I have seen plenty of really fucking stupid driving by locals too. And have had a few near misses (and one crash) at such hands.

Having said that, I doubt I would drive at all in a country that used the opposite side of the road. Too used to driving on the left - I'd probably fuck up at least once with who knows what consequences.
The very reason I took back my rental in the US and caught a train.....

[FJRider]

Not thinking & not looking is the problem. As usual.

The common fault of Kiwi drivers ... they drive through STOP signs too ...

And if there is single figure percentage of overseas drivers involved in accident deaths ... that must mean at least 90% of road deaths are Kiwi's at fault.

And considering the sheer number of rental vehicles on New Zealand roads on most days ... if all overseas drivers are so bad ... there should be more deaths.

Kiwi drivers are doing more harm to other road users than overseas drivers. Finger pointing at the minority problem seems stupid ...

[george formby]

The common fault of Kiwi drivers ... they drive through STOP signs too ...

And if there is single figure percentage of overseas drivers involved in accident deaths ... that must mean at least 90% of road deaths are Kiwi's at fault.

And considering the sheer number of rental vehicles on New Zealand roads on most days ... if all overseas drivers are so bad ... there should be more deaths.

Kiwi drivers are doing more harm to other road users than overseas drivers. Finger pointing at the minority problem seems stupid ...

Yup, consistently.
I live in a tourist destination with all the issues that a lot of tourists on the road brings but don't find them any worse than home grown drivers. A lot may be slow and some are crap drivers but I don't recall seeing tourist vehicles speeding or driving aggressively. I've never had a campervan over take me through a blind corner. Lots of reasons for that, I know, but just sayin.

[FJRider]

With regard to the tourist that went through the stop sign I read in another forum where the guy who had the right of way should have seen him coming and stopped for him. Just imagine the traffic chaos and rear end collisions if people who had the right of way on roads started doing that on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.

I hope you mean remote chance ... and the chance of people going through Stop signs is getting LESS remote on each passing day.

In the case you refer to ... if that driver with "Right of way" had given way ... three people (one a mother and two children) who could still be alive. Did those three deserve that .. ?? The heartache that incident will cause for many generations of those family's ... did they deserve that ... ??? Simply because one driver refused to give way when he was "In the right" ... Did he really have the right to cause that end result ..??

If you refuse to give way at any time ... simply because YOU have "Right of way" ... expect the same fate.

Or at least the same (or similar) result. Good luck with that.

[JimO]

I'm sure plenty of Kiwi tourists have been guilty of exactly the same thing.


did it myself on Maui, pulled out of our condo and drove on the wrong side into a corner, almost had a headon with a car coming the other way, its easy to do

[Katman]

With regard to the tourist that went through the stop sign I read in another forum where the guy who had the right of way should have seen him coming and stopped for him. Just imagine the traffic chaos and rear end collisions if people who had the right of way on roads started doing that on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.

Your post is so incredibly simplistic it could only have been written by someone incredibly simple.

Giving way when you are in fact entitled to the right of way does not necessarily require coming to a stop.

A bit of forethought and reduction of speed (if there is doubt whether the other driver is going to concede right of way) is usually all it would take to avoid a crash. (Please note - I'm making no call on this particular crash as I'm not privy to any details).

Your implication that, if people started giving way when they weren't legally required to, it would lead to absolute chaos on our roads is moronic.

[Swoop]

I remember coming round a corner on the West Coast on the bike and some useless cunt is stopped in the middle of the road taking pictures. I missed him by about 300mm because he was standing on the driver side of the van taking photos of the other side of the road. Fucker.
A mate in the tourism industry bitches about this ALL the time. Tourists in their portable maggot vans simply STOP! when a nice view is seen. Get the camera out since there are so few other road users about...

... on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.
Remote? Come to Auckland and take your chances at any of the intersections here! Luckily the pigs do nothing about this safety issue.

did it myself on Maui, pulled out of our condo and drove on the wrong side into a corner, almost had a headon with a car coming the other way, its easy to do
Hawaii has been sensible. All rental cars have number plates that explain that it is a fucking visitor behind the wheel, so locals are aware of the problem.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Your implication that, if people started giving way when they weren't legally required to, it would lead to absolute chaos on our roads is moronic.

Shouldn't be too much of a surprise mate.

[munster]

PM doesn't see it as a problem

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11266142

[Katman]

In fact, what percentage of fatal vehicle accidents do those attributed to tourists make up?

It would be wise to keep it in perspective.

[gammaguy]

I am all about the broad brush.

I see your broad brush and raise you a spray booth


If its OK for tourists to come here and get killed by kiwis in a hot air balloon,it must be OK for them to come here and kill kiwis in their cars

Or conversely the whole tourist industry in this country needs a overhaul

Pick one,answers on a postcard

[Virago]

...I remember coming round a corner on the West Coast on the bike and some useless cunt is stopped in the middle of the road taking pictures. I missed him by about 300mm because he was standing on the driver side of the van taking photos of the other side of the road. Fucker...

My father-in-law was caught the same way. Came over a blind crest to find a car parked right in the middle of the road - the Dutch family had parked their rental there and wandered off to take photos. He couldn't go round it (on-coming cars) so went down the left side - just clipping the car. The real kicker was that the father-in-law was held liable (not able to stop in the visible distance blah-blah).

[R650R]

Just imagine the traffic chaos and rear end collisions if people who had the right of way on roads started doing that on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.

We already have this problem.
Try approaching a roundabout in a truck with good views every which way. There seems to be many drivers who cant extrapolate in their head the flight paths of two vehicles and work out that if they both mind their own business they will not collide. So instead they reduce their speed and enter into a possible collision scenario.
Many of these types of drivers seem to think that anyone else approaching a roundabout must come to a dead stop while their orbiting it.
Oh well buddy if your stopping guess I don't need to now...

Watching the news report I couldn't help but notice as the reporter remarked "these are the exact same fine conditions as when crash happened" and the sun appeared to be right behind the stop sign blinding the offending motorist.
I often wonder if roading authorities consider the sun position and sunstrike at all when marking junctions and putting signs up etc.
Something bikers should be aware of too is the equally dangerous practice of placing signs on traffic islands at car window level almost creating blindspots...
Pic of best example I could find, small sign but you get the idea....

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/imagecache/200x200_scaled_cropped/story/2011/11/emergency_service_workers_work_at_the_scene_of_a_f _4ec0c31c24.JPG

[Berries]

With regard to the tourist that went through the stop sign I read in another forum where the guy who had the right of way should have seen him coming and stopped for him. Just imagine the traffic chaos and rear end collisions if people who had the right of way on roads started doing that on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.
You do have some weird views. Without commenting on the crash in question, if you are happily rolling along at 100km/h and you see a car on a side road heading towards a crossroads intersection ahead and he does not look like he is slowing down at all then you would be a complete idiot to just keep going at 100km/h. You don't need to stop, but you do need to be not at the intersection at the same time as him. There would be no traffic chaos.

This type of crash happens all the time, the fact this one had a tourist driving means everyone jumps on tourists when it could just as easily have been a local. So many rural crossroads are laid out poorly with one shitty sign competing against shelter belts and power lines that take your eyes straight through the intersection.


Pic of best example I could find, small sign but you get the idea....
Totally agree with your comments re sunstrike, but that sign had absolutely nothing to do with the crash in the picture.

[slofox]

The common fault of Kiwi drivers ... they drive through STOP signs too ...

I think I am the only driver in The Tron who actually stops at stop signs. From what I can see anyway.

I went to the trouble of videoing a stop sign here for about 15 minutes one weekend morning. Only one car actually stopped. Another did stop but only because someone was coming along the road. The rest treated it like a give way sign.

Nobody seemed interested in seeing that video...maybe the cops don't care about stop signs any more.

[slofox]

With regard to the tourist that went through the stop sign I read in another forum where the guy who had the right of way should have seen him coming and stopped for him. Just imagine the traffic chaos and rear end collisions if people who had the right of way on roads started doing that on the remote change a person does not stop at a stop sign.

Anyone who rides a bike with any degree of sense at all should be prepared to take evasive action at any intersection when another vehicle is on that piece of road. If I see someone who looks like they might not give way to me when they should, I'll make fucking sure I am not in his way if he comes through. And I get plenty of practice riding round a city.

Common fucking sense. Same should apply when driving any vehicle. Better stopped when you shouldn't than dead.

[Berries]

I went to the trouble of videoing a stop sign here for about 15 minutes one weekend morning. Only one car actually stopped. Another did stop but only because someone was coming along the road. The rest treated it like a give way sign.
A lot of them should be and that is why they don't get complied with. Too much crying wolf.

To be fair though, it does not sound like this crash was someone rolling through a stop sign at low speed and not coming to a complete stop.

[Virago]

You do have some weird views. Without commenting on the crash in question, if you are happily rolling along at 100km/h and you see a car on a side road heading towards a crossroads intersection ahead and he does not look like he is slowing down at all then you would be a complete idiot to just keep going at 100km/h. You don't need to stop, but you do need to be not at the intersection at the same time as him. There would be no traffic chaos...

Yup.

This is precisely the point of the "others make mistakes" advert, which was widely condemned on here. Some people simply can't see past the "right of way" rule, to the concept of defensive driving.

[R650R]

Nobody seemed interested in seeing that video...maybe the cops don't care about stop signs any more.

That's because stuff like that catches everybody including the VIPs and offduty cops etc... and creates a headache for them...
That pushbike nut in Auckland ruined the whole video evidence thing by overdoing it and now they prob assume anyone doing it is just as nutty as him.
Plus think of the workload if every joe blow was doing these types of vids...

[george formby]

If I see someone who looks like they might not give way to me when they should, I'll make fucking sure I am not in his way if he comes through.

Concur. But I would guess that your intuitiveness with other road users is very conscious & constant. Spidey sense. You jump on the bike & tune in. I don't think this is the average mentality of road users, years on a bike with an open mind & the ability to learn kind of make us a bit different.
On a recent ride with a mate & my n00b G/F I spotted an elderly gentleman about to exit a golf club. All the alarm bells rang, I knew he was going to pull out, sure as the sun comes up. My mate who was tail end charlie felt the same thing. My G/F thought he might but was sure he would not..... I was well out of dodge but my G/F stuck to her guns & ended up being forced out of lane as he barged his way out. No harm done but the only difference between the 3 of us was attitude. 2 assumed he would pull out & were proactive, 1 assumed he would not & had to be reactive.
Just another day on the roads.

Summit else I have noticed with tourists is how busy they are when driving, talking, fiddling with sat navs, looking at maps and views or being directed by passengers, a major indicator of unawareness. All attention is on the passenger talking & pointing, not what is happening on the road.
I also get the impression that some tourists feel that their campervan will roll over at the merest hint of a corner, the tension is palpable when your stuck behind them.

[oneofsix]

You do have some weird views. Without commenting on the crash in question, if you are happily rolling along at 100km/h and you see a car on a side road heading towards a crossroads intersection ahead and he does not look like he is slowing down at all then you would be a complete idiot to just keep going at 100km/h. You don't need to stop, but you do need to be not at the intersection at the same time as him. There would be no traffic chaos.

This type of crash happens all the time, the fact this one had a tourist driving means everyone jumps on tourists when it could just as easily have been a local. So many rural crossroads are laid out poorly with one shitty sign competing against shelter belts and power lines that take your eyes straight through the intersection.


Totally agree with your comments re sunstrike, but that sign had absolutely nothing to do with the crash in the picture.

The stop signs are often put at intersection because the vehicle with right of way has no hope of seeing the vehicle approaching on the side road and the vehicle on the side road has little chance of seeing if the way is clear with out stopping.
That said I get pissed off when they put stop sign where there should be give ways and approaching a stop sign I can see the way is clear unless I stop, enough time providing I don't stop, but because it is a stop sign I have to stop and wait for the queue stuck turtle.

[R650R]

How many people could seriously react in time anyway with how common late braking is with busy lives these days.
A trucky mate of mine demolished a rural post van that rocketed out of a driveway. He saw it coming down the hill and assumed it would stop.
But with no driver it wasn't stopping, postie had turned around and pointed it at road and forgot to put handbrake on!!!
But yeah as others have said be aware for anything alright.

[Katman]

I also get the impression that some tourists feel that their campervan will roll over at the merest hint of a corner, the tension is palpable when your stuck behind them.

Ensuring one doesn't add to their nervousness is always a good move too.

[george formby]

Ensuring one doesn't add to their nervousness is always a good move too.

Heh, I keep my distance and stay in the mirror. Not gonna create a problem for meself and I'm not in a hurry. A bit of courtesy goes a long way. The majority of slower vehicles, trucks, buses etc indicate to let me pass when it is safe. As it should be. Campervans, home grown grey nomads or otherwise, considerably less so.

[swarfie]

Concur. But I would guess that your intuitiveness with other road users is very conscious & constant. Spidey sense. You jump on the bike & tune in. I don't think this is the average mentality of road users, years on a bike with an open mind & the ability to learn kind of make us a bit different.
On a recent ride with a mate & my n00b G/F I spotted an elderly gentleman about to exit a golf club. All the alarm bells rang, I knew he was going to pull out, sure as the sun comes up. My mate who was tail end charlie felt the same thing. My G/F thought he might but was sure he would not..... I was well out of dodge but my G/F stuck to her guns & ended up being forced out of lane as he barged his way out. No harm done but the only difference between the 3 of us was attitude. 2 assumed he would pull out & were proactive, 1 assumed he would not & had to be reactive.
Just another day on the road.

+1
Out for a ride with my daughter on pillion on Saturday :clap:. She's been driving but not riding for 12 years now and made comment (helmet intercom) on how I backed off the throttle when cars were coming up to us on intersections. Until I am sure they've seen me I'm careful to position myself in a defensive place on the road. That attitude has saved me numerous times. Same on my pushy on my daily commute to work, you wouldn't believe how many cagers don't see you....oh sorry...DON'T LOOK :mad:

[AllanB]

I see on the news tonight a 16 year old exchange student has lost control and driven into a house in Auckland. She does not hold a license and it was a 200sx Nissan she was driving...... so after mummy and daddy are told to pay costs will she be deported?

[unstuck]

I backed off the throttle when cars were coming up to us on intersections. Until I am sure they've seen me I'm careful to position myself in a defensive place on the road. That attitude has saved me numerous times. Same on my pushy on my daily commute to work, you wouldn't believe how many cagers don't see you....oh sorry...DON'T LOOK :mad:

Yep, safer to assume that they are not going to give way, and lose a second or 2. Live longer that way, and enjoy the ride more.:Punk::Punk:

[unstuck]

I see on the news tonight a 16 year old exchange student has lost control and driven into a house in Auckland. She does not hold a license and it was a 200sx Nissan she was driving...... so after mummy and daddy are told to pay costs will she be deported?

Sold to the mob as an "Escort" more likely. :buggerd:

[unstuck]

So if you were the judge in this case you would charge the guy in the right for not giving way??? You have a real sick attitude if you ask me.
For all you know he could have had a truck and trailer behind him and if he had given way the outcome would be the same would it not as they don't have the stopping ability of cars.

Driven a few trucks have you? Surprising how quickly you can pull up a rig these days.

[Virago]

So if you were the judge in this case you would charge the guy in the right for not giving way??? You have a real sick attitude if you ask me.
For all you know he could have had a truck and trailer behind him and if he had given way the outcome would be the same would it not as they don't have the stopping ability of cars.

Has anyone told you that you're completely unhinged?

[george formby]

So if you were the judge in this case you would charge the guy in the right for not giving way??? You have a real sick attitude if you ask me.
For all you know he could have had a truck and trailer behind him and if he had given way the outcome would be the same would it not as they don't have the stopping ability of cars.

You are an argumentative, simplistic, fantasist.
Or, put another way.
You post a load of cobblers.

[bogan]

Driven a few trucks have you? Surprising how quickly you can pull up a rig these days.

Must be on acount of the many roundy rubbey thingos...


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sa6IXQoYY58" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Check out this shit, that last one especially, in the wet no less :gob:

[unstuck]

Bloody great technology in those new volvos. The old F10 would have still been going after going over the top of that car.:shit:

[scumdog]

Whilst I take your point Mr Dorsetcase, it is also true that we hear little about the thousands of kilometres that tourists here travel without mishap.

I have seen plenty of really fucking stupid driving by locals too. And have had a few near misses (and one crash) at such hands.

Having said that, I doubt I would drive at all in a country that used the opposite side of the road. Too used to driving on the left - I'd probably fuck up at least once with who knows what consequences.

Never had an isisue with that in the U.S. - on both 'bike and car.

[george formby]

The problem with your theory is that traffic on all side roads are often obscured by hedges and trees and you would have to stop and give way at all those intersections too. So while it has theoretical merit in practise it would be unworkable on all roads. If it is something people fear they just need to buy a bigger safer vehicle perhaps as I did after being an innocent victim in a head on collision.




The only unhinged ones are those who want drivers with right of way giving way. Lucky people like you are not part of the justice system.

Those posts together scare me.

[Virago]

The only unhinged ones are those who want drivers with right of way giving way. Lucky people like you are not part of the justice system.

:facepalm: :thud:

[scumdog]

For all you know he could have had a truck and trailer behind him and if he had given way the outcome would be the same would it not as they don't have the stopping ability of cars.

What a load of codswollop!

You lost it as soon as you said 'For all you know"...

[george formby]

What a load of codswollop!

You lost it as soon as you said 'For all you know"...

Er, codswallop.

[george formby]

Start giving way at intersections then where you have right of way if not giving way scares you. It is your decision if you think its safer.

Please see my earlier post. The only person mentioning "give way" is you. Adjusting speed & road position to avoid a potential SMIDSY is basic road skills.

Are you on medication for a hormonal disorder?

[Robbo]

Start giving way at intersections then where you have right of way if not giving way scares you. It is your decision if you think its safer.

Here is a pic of Cassina flying into an intersection at breakneck speed of 50km/h in a 100km/h zone with his back wheel locked up and suddenly realising that following his own invaluable advice things were about to go very pear shaped.

[george formby]

In order to know for sure the driver was not giving way the driver with right of way would need mined reading ability would they not???.
Most people cant not read minds but if they could I agree the accident would not have happened.

Allowing for not having crystal balls I find giving myself more time & space, integral elements to seeing the future, helps a lot in collision avoidance.

Are you on medication? I'm sure something is available to fill in the grey scale between black & white. Maybe even primary colours could become visible. Like the ones used in traffic lights.

[Akzle]

natives cant drive for shit.
The old foreigners cant drive for shit, the new foreigners certainly cant drive for shit, the tourists? Youre worried about fucken tourists?
Ban cars.

[george formby]

The problem with your theory though is that every intersection has potential for grief but how quick would traffic get from A to B if everyone with right of way slowed/stopped at intersections. You may as well advocate for a lowering of the speed limit to save lives too which could have happened in this case as the driver in the wrong would have had a better chance of seeing the stop sign travelling at a lower speed.

Only for you in your big tank because you have no ability to anticipate & believe might is right.

Why do you ride a motorcycle?

[george formby]

natives cant drive for shit.
The old foreigners cant drive for shit, the new foreigners certainly cant drive for shit, the tourists? Youre worried about fucken tourists?


I hate to say it, but yeah.

[FJRider]

So if you were the judge in this case you would charge the guy in the right for not giving way??? You have a real sick attitude if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

Your thinking is perverted. Never at ANY stage have I said or suggested ... that other driver should be charged. But every driver/rider has a MORAL obligation to avoid/prevent an accident happening. It is on his/her conscious if they do not. It was not the tourists that were killed. The people (locals) that died were in the vehicle that was (apparently) in the right. But ... THEY'RE STILL DEAD. Had that driver slowed or stopped ... those three might still be alive.


For all you know he could have had a truck and trailer behind him and if he had given way the outcome would be the same would it not as they don't have the stopping ability of cars.


Fanciful thinking really is your thing ... good luck with that ...

[FJRider]

The only unhinged ones are those who want drivers with right of way giving way.

You would describe the act of self preservation (by giving way.. whilst having right of way) UNHINGED .. ??? :scratch:

[FJRider]

Your thinking is perverted. Never at ANY stage have I said or suggested ... that other driver should be charged. But every driver/rider has a MORAL obligation to avoid/prevent an accident happening. It is on his/her conscious if they do not. It was not the tourists that were killed. The people (locals) that died were in the vehicle that was (apparently) in the right. But ... THEY'RE STILL DEAD. Had that driver slowed or stopped ... those three might still be alive.




Fanciful thinking really is your thing ... good luck with that ...

But unlike you the driver with the right of way did not have the ability to read the other drivers mind. Lack of mind reading ability is a killer eh!!![/QUOTE]


You can't even quote post in the forums properly ... and you expect us to take you seriously as someone with some degree of intelligence.

A big FAIL in both regards ... :killingme

[george formby]

.[QUOTE]

But unlike you the driver with the right of way did not have the ability to read the other drivers mind. Lack of mind reading ability is a killer eh!!!


Yup, lack of telepathy ranks right up there with a lack of common sense as one of the biggest killers on our roads. Statistically proven on KB by relevant post count tonight.

Go on. Tell me, please. What do you get out of riding a motorcycle?

[scumdog]

Er, codswallop.

Yeah, that too!:lol:

[george formby]

Yeah, that too!:lol:

They're almost indistinguishable. Bollocks, basically.

[Laava]

Er, codswallop.

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o&sns=em

[Berries]

The problem with your theory is that traffic on all side roads are often obscured by hedges and trees and you would have to stop and give way at all those intersections too. So while it has theoretical merit in practise it would be unworkable on all roads.
My theory? My general comment was in direct response to you bringing up some rubbish you read in another forum about this particular crash.


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[FJRider]

For those interested ... and those not familiar with Thomsons track in Canterbury where the three deaths occurred.

Google maps ... the direction the Kiwi driver was traveling was right to left on Thomsons track....

https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=Somerton+Road,+Mitcham,+Canterbury&hl=en&ll=-43.755117,171.918193&spn=0.006347,0.009645&sll=-40.799894,175.310128&sspn=53.589423,79.013672&oq=Somerton+road,+Canterbury&t=h&hnear=Somerton+Rd&z=17

[oneblackflag]

You can't even quote post in the forums properly ... and you expect us to take you seriously as someone with some degree of intelligence.

A big FAIL in both regards ... :killingme

Let he who is without sin cast the firt stone.... ;) (Cause you fucked up your quoting to eh)

[Virago]

For those interested ... and those not familiar with Thomsons track in Canterbury where the three deaths occurred.

Google maps ... the direction the Kiwi driver was traveling was right to left on Thomsons track....

https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=Somerton+Road,+Mitcham,+Canterbury&hl=en&ll=-43.755117,171.918193&spn=0.006347,0.009645&sll=-40.799894,175.310128&sspn=53.589423,79.013672&oq=Somerton+road,+Canterbury&t=h&hnear=Somerton+Rd&z=17

Interesting. The street view shows no hedges etc impeding view. Both drivers should have been able see the other approaching?

[Akzle]

Let he who is without sin cast the firt stone.... ;) (Cause you fucked up your quoting to eh)

you sir, have just been trolled.

[oneblackflag]

you sir, have just been trolled.

Good grief..... Nooooo! :shit:

[FJRider]

Interesting. The street view shows no hedges etc impeding view. Both drivers should have been able see the other approaching?

Judging by the location of the car in the photos at the crash scene (they were going to the ski-field)... the tourist was on Somerton road travailing from south to north. Possibly intending to turn onto Thomsons track. Little chance of the sun obscuring the stop signs.

[jonbuoy]

2.6 million tourists visited NZ in 2013 - you would think at least half of them hired some sort of vehicle so are the stats that bad?

[bogan]

But only one could reasonably have assumed (having right of way) they were not on a collision course. How do you guys know that you would have necessarily have slowed down having right of way unless of course its a habitual thing you do when you have right of way at all intersections.

Defensive Riding.

When two vehicles are moving towards an intersection point, the one with the right of way should apply something similar to a half deceleration rate to the vehicle that must yeild. Ie, if they haven't started slowing down when they are twice as far away from the intersection as you would need to do an e-stop, then you should start slowing and be prepared to do one of your own.
That is the absolute basic stuff btw, a rider should always look for other vehicle cues which indicate driver's intent.

[george formby]

2.6 million tourists visited NZ in 2013 - you would think at least half of them hired some sort of vehicle so are the stats that bad?

You're on my Christmas card list.

[FJRider]

No ski fields are open yet.

I never said they were. But that IS where they WERE reported as going to ... Do you not read the papers ...

In the New Zealand Herald ..

"A 52-year-old Dutch tourist has been charged over the crash after allegedly driving through ... crossed the centreline and collided with the 4-wheel-drive she was travelling ... away with two other families to the Ohau ski area in the Mackenzie Basin."

[Virago]

2.6 million tourists visited NZ in 2013 - you would think at least half of them hired some sort of vehicle so are the stats that bad?

It's fair to say that this weekend is a statistical anomaly. But those of us who live in or regularly travel the South Island tourist routes all have too many near-miss horror stories.

[Virago]

Defensive Riding.

When two vehicles are moving towards an intersection point, the one with the right of way should apply something similar to a half deceleration rate to the vehicle that must yeild. Ie, if they haven't started slowing down when they are twice as far away from the intersection as you would need to do an e-stop, then you should start slowing and be prepared to do one of your own.
That is the absolute basic stuff btw, a rider should always look for other vehicle cues which indicate driver's intent.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

This.

Cassina, if you still don't get it, there's no hope for you.

[FJRider]

Defensive Riding.

When two vehicles are moving towards an intersection point, the one with the right of way should apply something similar to a half deceleration rate to the vehicle that must yeild. Ie, if they haven't started slowing down when they are twice as far away from the intersection as you would need to do an e-stop, then you should start slowing and be prepared to do one of your own.
That is the absolute basic stuff btw, a rider should always look for other vehicle cues which indicate driver's intent.

When the act of slowing may save your life, at the expense of a few seconds ... if there is suspicion the other driver may not give way ... I have and will continue to do so.

On a number of occasions it HAS worked.

Those that trust an unknown stranger to do the right thing ... on the premise that THEIR right of way is THEIR guarantee no harm will come to them ... good luck to them.

[skippa1]

Its funny how all those who have attacked my view of the guy with the right of way have not said on here
"if it had been me I would have given way as I give way at all intersections where I have right of way anyway".
You're stupidity is mildly amusing

[oneblackflag]

Its funny how all those who have attacked my view of the guy with the right of way have not said on here
"if it had been me I would have given way as I give way at all intersections where I have right of way anyway".

Fuck me, does light bend around you too, or just 'the point'.

[oneofsix]

Its funny how all those who have attacked my view of the guy with the right of way have not said on here
"if it had been me I would have given way as I give way at all intersections where I have right of way anyway".

What's wrong cassina? Are the holier than thou crowd upsetting you? They are just struggling to make-up alternatives to justify their positions. The vehicle with right of way probably could have seen the other vehicle until too late and had no time to judge if it was stopping or not but in line with NZ excuse society don't blame the retard that failed to obey the law.

[Scuba_Steve]

I can't be arsed reading the whole thread but looking at the crash & reading the "news" it would appear that stop sign runner wasn't a rolling stop, they came through at speed; It would also appear this was on 100km/h & 100km/h cross roads (I don't know the area so feel free to correct); Visibility also doesn't appear the best.

So given all the above I'd say there was shit all to nothing to be done about it for your avg person & I'm willing (like always) to put my Landy's bodywork on the line for anyone willing to prove they're so awesome they could avoid the crash because IMO if you're going slow enough to avoid that crash you're going too fucking slow for the road & reinforcing the retard idea we should all be travelling no more than 60km/h anywhere anytime. So I don't think shit all to none of you could have avoided that crash but again I'm willing to have you prove me & the Landy wrong

We're all reliant on others doing the right thing on the road whether you want to admit it or not, yes you can take certain precautions to minimise risk but you cannot eliminate it. People need to learn to drive & it'd be nice if we had some sort of test of road skill/vehicle operation before people (NZ or not) were allowed to drive on our road but we don't, best we have is a "have money, get ID" system.

[jonbuoy]

It's fair to say that this weekend is a statistical anomaly. But those of us who live in or regularly travel the South Island tourist routes all have too many near-miss horror stories.

I hear what your saying.

Just like immigration in general- the NZ government wants the cash but the general population of NZ don't want tourists or immigrants.

[slofox]

Never had an isisue with that in the U.S. - on both 'bike and car.

You are probably not a doddering old fool like me scummy...

I daresay I could manage if I really tried but I'd probably want a few training runs before I did.

[Katman]

I can't be arsed reading the whole thread but looking at the crash & reading the "news" it would appear that stop sign runner wasn't a rolling stop, they came through at speed; It would also appear this was on 100km/h & 100km/h cross roads (I don't know the area so feel free to correct); Visibility also doesn't appear the best.


Do you know the difference between a Give Way sign and a Stop sign?

[Katman]

Interesting that in the Google street view there is a trailer unit parked in a position that could hamper the visibility of someone at the Give Way sign.

(Yes, I'm aware that the trailer was highly unlikely to have still been parked there this weekend).

[Oscar]

Fuck me, what a media beat up.
Tests for rental car drivers..

According to National Radio, the Dutch guy went through a stop sign.
How does a driving test before hiring a car help with that? They have stop signs in Holland and no end of tests is going to guard against stupidity.

The Asian chick in Christchurch had no license at all, was a o/seas student, no a tourist, so what kind of test or regulation is going to help with that?


Meanwhile, the fuckwit from the Police is droning on about speed and alcohol.

In the meantime, our roads are full of Kiwi drivers who have been on provisional licenses for years, our roads are full of aggressive fuckwits in sub-standard cars, and in the Harald last week, a guy who has had summat like 13 DIC convictions.

And then there's the state of our roads. In our district, every year about this time, the council peels out "slippery road" signs on dnagerous corners because it's cheaper than actually fixing the roads, and it covers them from a legal point of view.

[buggerit]

[QUOTE=cassina;1130727855].


Yup, lack of telepathy ranks right up there with a lack of common sense as one of the biggest killers on our roads. Statistically proven on KB by relevant post count tonight.

Go on. Tell me, please. What do you get out of riding a motorcycle?

Thrush?:rofl:

[Ocean1]

what kind of test or regulation is going to help with that?.

At least they're consistent, the country's most dangerous road had its speed reduced from 100k to 60 in several bites after several serious accidents, all we'll over the current legal limit. And the mother was put in hospital a couple of weeks ago on the same road when a driver with no licence and multiple convictions lost it on a tight left hander, crossed the centreline and hit her head on.

[neels]

Fuck me, what a media beat up.
That about sums it up.

This story is tragic for the family, and therefore makes for excellent news fodder and outpourings of public outrage/sympathy, meanwhile the people affected by the other fatal road accidents over the weekend carry on with their lives unnoticed.

[oldrider]

Fuck me, what a media beat up.
Tests for rental car drivers..

According to National Radio, the Dutch guy went through a stop sign.
How does a driving test before hiring a car help with that? They have stop signs in Holland and no end of tests is going to guard against stupidity.

The Asian chick in Christchurch had no license at all, was a o/seas student, no a tourist, so what kind of test or regulation is going to help with that?


Meanwhile, the fuckwit from the Police is droning on about speed and alcohol.

In the meantime, our roads are full of Kiwi drivers who have been on provisional licenses for years, our roads are full of aggressive fuckwits in sub-standard cars, and in the Harald last week, a guy who has had summat like 13 DIC convictions.

And then there's the state of our roads. In our district, every year about this time, the council peels out "slippery road" signs on dnagerous corners because it's cheaper than actually fixing the roads, and it covers them from a legal point of view.

I gave Oscar a greenie for this post but I believe it is in need of more than just a private acclamation ... he has nailed it right there! :yes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Do you know the difference between a Give Way sign and a Stop sign?

I know this!

stopping is optional at both.

Where's my chocolate fish!???!?!?

[haydes55]

I know this!



stopping is optional at both.



Where's my chocolate fish!???!?!?


I treat stop signs as give way signs, unless I see a cop. You have to have an IQ of 24 or below to need to stop to see a vehicle. Stop giving downies licenses, problem solved

[Robbo]

I know this!

stopping is optional at both.

Where's my chocolate fish!???!?!?

Here ya go Tim

Cheers

[Scuba_Steve]

Do you know the difference between a Give Way sign and a Stop sign?

Yes, but please do tell the price of fish... especially the chocolate ones

[Crasherfromwayback]

How are these muppets?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Z3-T2u-bc0g?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[slofox]

I gave Oscar a greenie for this post but I believe it is in need of more than just a private acclamation ... he has nailed it right there! :yes:

I gave him a green too. Nice summary of the reality of it all.

[Swoop]

I believe the gubbinment already has the situation under control and it's working like this:

#1: Do nothing about driver skills and then watch the standards of road usage decline.
#2: (Bonus part here: enjoy the profits from the road-based tax collectors)
#3: Once the roads are so dangerous to use, tourists will not choose to drive or ride here, but will employ locals to chauffeur them around.
#4: (Bonus part here: additional jobs created for locals)

Hey, it works fine in Thailand! I'm shit scared to hire anything up there! Get a local to drive for you instead!

[Paul in NZ]

Back when I were a lad I used to drive that area daily as a part of my job...

Its flat as a pancake there and the roads look like they were laid out by a OCD ancient Roman roading engineer with a pathalogical hatred of curves. ie they are about the straightest roads you will ever find in NZ and yet there are hazards.

Shelter belts and sun strike are the most obvious hazards but the biggest one is that these roads are rare here and your view down the road disappears to 'vanishing point' and some folks fail to see the stop signs or register that other similar roads cross them. The stop signs are well situated and from memory its marked on the road clearly.

I have had a couple of close ones down there and used to slow and cover the brake at every intersection right of way or not.

I was stopped at a similar one there waiting for a car when the vehicle opposite didn't. The crash was spectacular and right in front of my bonnet. The usual cloud of glass fragments ended up all over my vehicle - bloody scary. There is always a moment of scilence before the screaming starts... No cell phones then but we had an RT in the vehicle and called it in. No casualties but I cut my hand pretty bad getting people out on the innocent car...

[Katman]

Have the signs at that intersection been changed to Stop signs since the Google street view pictures were taken?

[Motu]

Back when I was hireing out cars (and motorcycles) to tourists on Waiheke Island, if they could produce a license, any old license, in any language, they got a car ( or GP100) Never had a foreign tourist smack up a car, although we did take off a bike from a guy who had 3 on it. Young Kiwi's used to put cars into the ditch playing rally driver.

[FJRider]

I saw a movie on extreme skiing recently and one of the skiers said you never call yourself an expert doing this because if you do things will turn pear shaped the same applies to riding a motorbike I feel but some on here would rubbish such a claim too I guess.

It's called "Murphy's Law" .. and it's not a law to be rubbished or ignored.

And I am surprised your attention span allowed you to watch the whole movie ..

[FJRider]

I would hardly call them a crowd more like 3 or 4 posters who ...

Two's company ... three's a crowd.

Don't you know anything ... ???

[HenryDorsetCase]

Young Kiwi's used to put cars into the ditch playing rally driver.

I wish I had thought of that instead of using my own cars (or ones that belonged to the gubblemunt... oh, the paperwork)

[blue rider]

a couple of years ago Iwent to the local AA Branch determined to find out how to go about getting a NZ driver license.

I got one within 15 minutes of entering their office. They took my German driver license (after giving me a copy of it) and i received a provisional driver license for NZ (the plastic one arrived 10 days later by post). And that was that.

Do you feel safe now? :devil2:

[george formby]

I would hardly call them a crowd more like 3 or 4 posters who have never crashed in their life or if they had have, learnt so much from it they are certain they will never crash again whether though an action of themselves or another road user.

I saw a movie on extreme skiing recently and one of the skiers said you never call yourself an expert doing this because if you do things will turn pear shaped the same applies to riding a motorbike I feel but some on here would rubbish such a claim too I guess.



This, from somebody who's reaction to an accident they were involved in was to buy an Urban Assault Vehicle.
The concept of self improvement might be worth investigating Cassina. Not saying you should do it, just try to understand it.

I fail to see the link between extreme skiing which involves throwing yourself down a snow covered mountain at the whim of nature & gravity with sticks on your feet & riding a motorcycle on public roads.

[Berries]

a couple of years ago Iwent to the local AA Branch determined to find out how to go about getting a NZ driver license.

I got one within 15 minutes of entering their office. They took my German driver license (after giving me a copy of it) and i received a provisional driver license for NZ (the plastic one arrived 10 days later by post). And that was that.

Do you feel safe now? :devil2:
Of course, if you had caused a crash in those first few months it would have been blamed on the fact that you were from overseas rather than the fact you made a mistake that caused a crash. Would doing a 30 minute practical driving test have made any difference? I didn't think so. It won't stop people from driving on the wrong side of the road occasionally and it seems to me they are the only crashes where being from overseas is actually an issue (apart from shitty third world countries like China and India). Failing to see a sign is failing to see a sign, failing to stop at a red light is failing to stop at a red light and losing it when cornering in the wet is losing it when cornering in the wet.

Tourism is a big part of NZ. If 5% of drivers are overseas tourists then it stands to reason that 5% of crashes will involve them and they will be at fault in some of them. It is not the fact that they are a tourist, it is the fact that they are human and make the same mistakes.

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a local. Those crashes drop from the headlines quickly though and don't get the frothing at the mouth caused by those dirty fucking foreigners.

[george formby]

Of course, if you had caused a crash in those first few months it would have been blamed on the fact that you were from overseas rather than the fact you made a mistake that caused a crash. Would doing a 30 minute practical driving test have made any difference? I didn't think so. It won't stop people from driving on the wrong side of the road occasionally and it seems to me they are the only crashes where being from overseas is actually an issue (apart from shitty third world countries like China and India). Failing to see a sign is failing to see a sign, failing to stop at a red light is failing to stop at a red light and losing it when cornering in the wet is losing it when cornering in the wet.

Tourism is a big part of NZ. If 5% of drivers are overseas tourists then it stands to reason that 5% of crashes will involve them and they will be at fault in some of them. It is not the fact that they are a tourist, it is the fact that they are human and make the same mistakes.

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a local. Those crashes drop from the headlines quickly though and don't get the frothing at the mouth caused by those dirty fucking foreigners.

That sounds way to logical.

I guess this thread came about more from media coverage than an actual issue.

[Berries]

I guess this thread came about more from media coverage than an actual issue.
There is an issue here, that is why the crash occurred, but I don't see why the drivers nationality had anything to do with it.


Shelter belts and sun strike are the most obvious hazards but the biggest one is that these roads are rare here and your view down the road disappears to 'vanishing point' and some folks fail to see the stop signs or register that other similar roads cross them. The stop signs are well situated and from memory its marked on the road clearly.
There's your potential issue, the road. If you are not concentrating 100% you can easily miss the signs and sadly this can be the result. Of course, as suggested in the OP, the driver could have been wearing clogs and smoking a joint at the time and then perhaps it was a factor.

[george formby]

There is an issue here, that is why the crash occurred, but I don't see why the drivers nationality had anything to do with it.



Yeah, exacary. That's what I meant.

[george formby]

You really are a nutter to draw the conclusion you have for me buying an Urban Assault vehicle when I have said no details at all about the accident. I might have actually given you the details if you had politely asked but I think I will just let you continue in your dream world about it and the Hummer type vehicle I assume you think I bought.

Take up skiing and you might understand the link otherwise just dream on about it since you like dreaming.

Been skiing since I was six and I see you in a Rav 4.

I bet your helmet size is xxxxxxs.

[Oscar]

Does anyone see the irony in this?
A nationwide discussion about the failings of overseas drivers?
New Zealanders casting aspersions on the driving skills of others?

Fuck me, this country is insular and naive sometimes...

[scumdog]

Does anyone see the irony in this?
A nationwide discussion about the failings of overseas drivers?
New Zealanders casting aspersions on the driving skills of others?

Fuck me, this country is insular and naive sometimes...

Maybe the overseas drivers come to NZ to learn all about bad driving behaviour from our own 'home-grown' crap drivers?;)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Does anyone see the irony in this?
A nationwide discussion about the failings of overseas drivers?
New Zealanders casting aspersions on the driving skills of others?

Fuck me, this country is insular and naive sometimes...

I'm not allowed to bling you again but yes, the irony did not escape me either.

[awa355]

I think it was Stirling Moss who said there are two things few men will never admit they can not do, one is drive a car, and the other is making love.

[scumdog]

I'm not allowed to bling you again but yes, the irony did not escape me either.

This thread (Forum?) is full of ironing...:wacko:

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was quite proud of "hemp smoking licorice eating fuckwit" I must say.

[oldrider]

Maybe the overseas drivers come to NZ to learn all about bad driving behaviour from our own 'home-grown' crap drivers?;)

Hey you ... keep my name out of this! :innocent:

[R650R]

Interesting response/idea/action... http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10348715/Queenstown-police-target-tourist-drivers

So not enough evidence to ticket or charge driver, but; we are going to ring the rental company up and tell them to strand you....

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO will they next be ringing the bank to tell them to close the accounts of suspected gang memebers, drug dealers etc where they don't have enough evidence.
Will they ring landlords and tell them to cancel the lease of party houses and bars with bad reps...
Opening a whole can of worms with this one....

[Ocean1]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO will they next be ringing the bank to tell them to close the accounts of suspected gang memebers, drug dealers etc where they don't have enough evidence.
Will they ring landlords and tell them to cancel the lease of party houses and bars with bad reps...
Opening a whole can of worms with this one....

We can only hope.

Meh. When you can't ping the fuckers for incompetence...

[R650R]

Actually this goes back to my recent argument that we should throw away all the separate charges/laws and just have one offence of "failing to meet the required/accepted standard" that would cover all offences and infringment/penalty at the discretion of police/courts.