Straightening the road

[Ulsterkiwi]

here is a video which may have been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmYh1FWYtUA

at 2:41 ish into the video the riders straighten the road, ie cross over the centre line to smooth out their route but only when they can see well ahead.

How would this go down with NZ police?

[MVnut]

You have to ask? ...........really?

[scumdog]

Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

[oneofsix]

here is a video which may have been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmYh1FWYtUA

at 2:41 ish into the video the riders straighten the road, ie cross over the centre line to smooth out their route but only when they can see well ahead.

How would this go down with NZ police?

You asked


Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

you were answered :lol:

[Ulsterkiwi]

you were answered :lol:

well I got one answer ;)

[Ulsterkiwi]

Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

Did you read my question? I didn't say I wanted to do it or ask why anyone would; I was curious what NZ police would think about the practice. Its a discussion thread, perhaps I am not supposed to begin discussions? Anyway, you have hinted at your opinion, so thank you for the answer

[scumdog]

Did you read my question? I didn't say I wanted to do it or ask why anyone would; I was curious what NZ police would think about the practice. Its a discussion thread, perhaps I am not supposed to begin discussions?

No discussion needed.
$150.
Ka-ching!

[george formby]

Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

My sentiments exacary.

I should imagine if you were in a pursuit situation with lights & siren used appropriately crossing the centre line would not be an issue.

Any hoo. Cheers for posting the vid. It's great to see how much road they use to maximise visibility. Been endless debate on KB about road position but seeing those guys on a shitty, cold, Autumn morning riding like that sums it up perfectly for me.
From personal experience I know those guys can really punt a bike.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I guess that's what I thought would be the case. Interesting this is a way of training one police force and a ticketable offence to another. Hence my curiosity. Both probably make good arguments why the respective approach is the 'right' one.

[george formby]

I guess that's what I thought would be the case. Interesting this is a way of training one police force and a ticketable offence to another. Hence my curiosity. Both probably make good arguments why the respective approach is the 'right' one.

I think the rules are the same in the UK, don't cross the centre line unless overtaking.

The feds on the bikes are "pursuit" riding. Vid is a bit scant on why they are riding like this so mis-leading.
In pursuit training the candidates are tailed by an instructor & often use a helicopter to check the road ahead. Pilot keeps the instructor up to date on hazards & traffic. There is a great video somewhere of a fed going for his pursuit ticket completely on the wrong side of the road through a very long left hand bend, he is doing 120mph..! His road position gives him the visibility to maximise his speed and still, er, be safe. All the while he is giving a running commentary.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I think the rules are the same in the UK, don't cross the centre line unless overtaking.

The feds on the bikes are "pursuit" riding. Vid is a bit scant on why they are riding like this so mis-leading.
In pursuit training the candidates are tailed by an instructor & often use a helicopter to check the road ahead. Pilot keeps the instructor up to date on hazards & traffic. There is a great video somewhere of a fed going for his pursuit ticket completely on the wrong side of the road through a very long left hand bend, he is doing 120mph..! His road position gives him the visibility to maximise his speed and still, er, be safe. All the while he is giving a running commentary.

that would make more sense.....

there was a 'watch and learn' element to how the video was presented. I know the IAM training system makes much of being based on the UK police pursuit training, much of which is useful to regular road riders, clearly this aspect is for the pros only :)

[george formby]

that would make more sense.....

there was a 'watch and learn' element to how the video was presented. I know the IAM training system makes much of being based on the UK police pursuit training, much of which is useful to regular road riders, clearly this aspect is for the pros only :)

Yup. Allegedly they have a reason for riding balls out on public roads. Last one back buys the donuts.;)

The IAM training goes up to the point of legality but the message & techniques are the same.
Slight aside. Just read a post on another forum from an IAM member after a group ride. His comment was "most boring day I've ever had on a bike"...

There are a series of instructional videos on youtube, some of which have been posted on KB, put out by the Borders & Lothian police. Excellent viewing.
It's raining in every single one.. LOL.:cold:

[R650R]

*YAWN* Well that's ten minutes of my life I'm not getting back, couldn't watch all of it.
About the only benefit I could see of there exercise was going out for a quick ride and just being used to how the bike behaves.
As for crossing centreline, well there cops and allowed so non issue, however I think the benefit is negligible. Perhaps one of our resident officers could do the maths on their crash computer of the visibility gained by lane position X,Y,Z on a corner of set radius R. Unless its a real tight corner according to my scribbles its nothing and being aware of stopping distance more of a concern.
I think their wrong in being so far to the right when overtaking as they'd be outside the view of many motorists mirrors.

[oneofsix]

I think the rules are the same in the UK, don't cross the centre line unless overtaking.

<snipped>.

Ever watched Emergency Bikers? One of the first episode when they introduced the Police bikers they were trying to recreate a bike crash, from the episode it appeared standard practice for them (all bikers) to use the road as required. This also used to be common practice in NZ. I think in NZ the popo have just got away with making money for the govt by twisting the as far left as practical to mean never cross the center line.

[Gremlin]

that would make more sense.....

there was a 'watch and learn' element to how the video was presented. I know the IAM training system makes much of being based on the UK police pursuit training, much of which is useful to regular road riders, clearly this aspect is for the pros only :)
IAM (originally started in UK and now exists in a handful or two of countries worldwide) is based off police roadcraft. IAM NZ basically follows the same thing, however, part of advanced roadcraft is also following the law.

So, to answer your original question, straightening the road is legal in the UK, hence part of the system. System is adjusted for variances in law, so ergo, not legal here. Not really a discussion? :scratch:

Another difference. UK is indicate if someone will benefit and you're actually marked down if you indicate "just because". NZ, you indicate regardless.

[oneofsix]

IAM (originally started in UK and now exists in a handful or two of countries worldwide) is based off police roadcraft. IAM NZ basically follows the same thing, however, part of advanced roadcraft is also following the law.

So, to answer your original question, straightening the road is legal in the UK, hence part of the system. System is adjusted for variances in law, so ergo, not legal here. Not really a discussion? :scratch:

Another difference. UK is indicate if someone will benefit and you're actually marked down if you indicate "just because". NZ, you indicate regardless.

well put. However whilst the law is the law it is always up for discussion lol

Is it also true that in the UK you are marked down if you don't use the bus lane when appropriate whereas in NZ you using the bus lane would be unexpected?

[Motu]

I was curious what NZ police would think about the practice.

Something I do often - ticketed once for failure to keep left, also no WoF or rego, so he made me push it home and followed me to make sure I did...I was also speeding, it all made for an expensive ticket. Another time I passed a mufty cop on the inside of a curve (right hander of an S bend) and he didn't pull me up about it....rural road with lots of visability, so I guess he didn't see a problem with it.

[Blackbird]

The IAM training goes up to the point of legality but the message & techniques are the same.
Slight aside. Just read a post on another forum from an IAM member after a group ride. His comment was "most boring day I've ever had on a bike"...
:

Link please?

[Berries]

at 2:41 ish into the video the riders straighten the road, ie cross over the centre line to smooth out their route but only when they can see well ahead.
I don't see anything wrong with it but then I am originally from the UK. Used to cut corners all the time when out for a spirited ride - if you could see through it and if you knew it was 'safe' to do so - something along the lines of paying for the whole road so using the whole road. Here, failure to stay in your lane means that even if you have excellent visibility and are no risk to anyone you can get a ticket. That's just the way it is in little old NZ.

[Blackbird]

I don't see anything wrong with it but then I am originally from the UK. Used to cut corners all the time when out for a spirited ride - if you could see through it and if you knew it was 'safe' to do so - something along the lines of paying for the whole road so using the whole road. Here, failure to stay in your lane means that even if you have excellent visibility and are no risk to anyone you can get a ticket. That's just the way it is in little old NZ.

Drivers and riders crossing the centre line in totally inappropriate places is endemic in the area I live (Coromandel Peninsula). Staying in your lane is a good means of staying alive, although I do use Roadcraft extreme positioning for maximum view (and create time) to make good decisions.

[oneofsix]

Drivers and riders crossing the centre line in totally inappropriate places is endemic in the area I live (Coromandel Peninsula). Staying in your lane is a good means of staying alive, although I do use Roadcraft extreme positioning for maximum view (and create time) to make good decisions.

:lol: typical kiwi knee jerk reaction, confusing inappropriate actions with similar save ones. Exactly how they convince us all speed is dangerous without differentiating between speed for conditions and tax collecting.

[AllanB]

I can't watch much of that stuff -bores me silly. NZ police actively set up to check and enforce crossing to the opposite side like that. Last xmas the Press published some images in the Lewis Pass (I think) of a target area - some seriously scary shit - large trucks cutting blind corners etc.

And given the recent serious of deaths by tourists being on the wrong side of road it is surprising you have to ask how the police will react. No special treatment should be shown just because you ride a motorcycle.

[Blackbird]

:lol: typical kiwi knee jerk reaction, confusing inappropriate actions with similar save ones. Exactly how they convince us all speed is dangerous without differentiating between speed for conditions and tax collecting.

Not confusing things at all (ex-pom BTW). I'm simply giving myself the best chance of surviving in the prevailing conditions. I enjoy pressing on on a bit myself but I'm too bloody old (66) for unnecessary risk. Don't bounce too well these days :whistle:

[Drew]

Stopped watching after 30 seconds, when they hugged the centre line on a left. To "see further round the bend". Fuck that, prefer to leave myself a bit of a margin should I need it.

[Ulsterkiwi]

And given the recent serious of deaths by tourists being on the wrong side of road it is surprising you have to ask how the police will react. No special treatment should be shown just because you ride a motorcycle.

I wasn't advocating any special treatment. Plus it would not be the first time there is some variation in interpretation of what the police find acceptable or not. Lane splitting anyone?........ The video got me curious, asked a question, appreciate people taking time to answer.

[Gremlin]

Stopped watching after 30 seconds, when they hugged the centre line on a left. To "see further round the bend". Fuck that, prefer to leave myself a bit of a margin should I need it.
Taken slightly out of context. That position is based upon your Safety, Stability and View (or SSV). Namely, if it's not safe or stable to be somewhere, then don't. However, that position will allow you see further through a corner, you will see oncoming drivers sooner and vice versa, plus, you do not maintain that position should there be an oncoming car. You are also able to read the road more easily as you can see more.

Being further to the inside of a corner (lets say it's blind) actually gives you less reaction time and less opportunities for action, ie, you tuck to the inside should it be necessary...

[caseye]

Yeah Na,taken out of context or otherwise, riding the centre line is not good practice and just because they are police pursuit riders ( superbly trained machines , break too) doesn't mean they won't get collected or worse be the perpetrators of an accident. I too stopped watching after not very long.Practicing that sort of riding ( at those sorts of speeds) on an "open" road doesn't seem like good road craft to me.
I readily acknowledge their professionalism and the need to make sure your guys are supremely capable, but making footage like this freely available to joe bloggs ( dickhead ) bike riders I honestly feel is counterproductive.

[ellipsis]

...we have a line in the centre of the road that really should mean something, other than just being a line in the centre of the road...

[The Reibz]

One Road Brother

[Blackbird]

I readily acknowledge their professionalism and the need to make sure your guys are supremely capable, but making footage like this freely available to joe bloggs ( dickhead ) bike riders I honestly feel is counterproductive.

I suppose it's like giving guns, big bikes or grunty cars to people without the necessary skill :-). Maybe it also shows what's possible with the right training :whistle:

[swbarnett]

Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.
Do you always ride parallel to the center line? If not then why do you 'straighten the road' by apexing a corner in your own lane?

[ellipsis]

...the centre line is all about discipline...

[nzspokes]

...we have a line in the centre of the road that really should mean something, other than just being a line in the centre of the road...

Agreed. Crossing that line when it is safe to do so creates a habit. That habit can get you killed.

[george formby]

Agreed. Crossing that line when it is safe to do so creates a habit. That habit can get you killed.

Exacary. That's why it costs $150 if you get caught doing it.
Which begs the question. Why do I see so many drivers & riders cutting corners? Crossing the white line with an early apex through a blind corner.
Corner cutting cameras. That's a solution.

[Berries]

Agreed. Crossing that line when it is safe to do so creates a habit. That habit can get you killed.
Eh? You just said the habit was to do it only when safe. How do you get killed if you only cross it when it is safe?

[Katman]

Stopped watching after 30 seconds, when they hugged the centre line on a left. To "see further round the bend". Fuck that, prefer to leave myself a bit of a margin should I need it.

Precisely.

I was appalled that no effort at all was made to create space between the riders and oncoming traffic.


However, that position will allow you see further through a corner, you will see oncoming drivers sooner and vice versa, plus, you do not maintain that position should there be an oncoming car.

Did you not watch the video?

[nzspokes]

Eh? You just said the habit was to do it only when safe. How do you get killed if you only cross it when it is safe?

People create habits to how they ride. They then use this habit when they ride all the time. When they are tired, cold or whatever they revert to the habit. The habit of crossing the center line can get you killed.

[Drew]

Taken slightly out of context. That position is based upon your Safety, Stability and View (or SSV). Namely, if it's not safe or stable to be somewhere, then don't. However, that position will allow you see further through a corner, you will see oncoming drivers sooner and vice versa, plus, you do not maintain that position should there be an oncoming car. You are also able to read the road more easily as you can see more.

Being further to the inside of a corner (lets say it's blind) actually gives you less reaction time and less opportunities for action, ie, you tuck to the inside should it be necessary...
You're taking the piss, eh? Blind corner or not, that's fucking stupid.

Agreed. Crossing that line when it is safe to do so creates a habit. That habit can get you killed.Guess everyone should stop overtaking anytime other than passing lanes then. I get fucked off with drivers who can't bring themselves to do it now though, so better paint all the centre lines yellow.

[pritch]

I couldn't watch the whole thing but saw two things I didn't like:

Straightening the road, I used to do that. When I got back into riding after a break I thought I had better do some reading and came across Nick ienatch's book.
He says don't cross the centreline, don't even ride with people who do. So I changed my ways. Besides it does seem a waste if after riding along a straight then when you come to a nice S bend you straight iine it. That would seem a technique better suited to someone who should really be driving a car.

Some here will already be aware that I disagree with the UK police technique on blind left hand bends as demonstrated in the video. A few years back there was a campaign in Britain to get the police to change that, but they would not.

[Erelyes]

People create habits to how they ride. They then use this habit when they ride all the time. When they are tired, cold or whatever they revert to the habit. The habit of crossing the center line can get you killed.

So you never pass vehicles unless there's a passing lane then?
Edit: Beaten to it by Drew

[Blackbird]

Some here will already be aware that I disagree with the UK police technique on blind left hand bends as demonstrated in the video.

Me Ron :innocent:? As always, it's a question of context. Positioning close to the centre line for a left - hander to get a better view and create more time for an appropriate response makes a lot of sense. HOWEVER, if a rider failed to sacrifice that position for oncoming traffic, it's plain dumb and if it was a Roadcraft test, it would be a fail. Roadcraft specifically talks about applying the rule flexibly to cater for each individual circumstance. There are blind bends and blind bends!

Unfortunately, it's impossible to discuss it rationally on a forum because it's one of those things which needs both demonstration and practice. Besides, it just feeds the trolls and fuckwits :laugh:

[nzspokes]

Guess everyone should stop overtaking anytime other than passing lanes then. I get fucked off with drivers who can't bring themselves to do it now though, so better paint all the centre lines yellow.

The threads about straightening corners. Not overtaking. I tend not to overtake on corners.

Normal overtaking, go for gold. Make sure its clear and pin that fucker.

[Drew]

The threads about straightening corners. Not overtaking. I tend not to overtake on corners.

Normal overtaking, go for gold. Make sure its clear and pin that fucker.

I overtake on corners, just not blind ones. Anyhoo...

That habit forming thing still doesn't ring true to me though. The mechanics of riding can be habitual, I don't believe the direction we travel is.

[nzspokes]

I overtake on corners, just not blind ones. Anyhoo...



Fair call.

I may from time to time.

[Madness]

Besides, it just feeds the trolls and fuckwits :laugh:

"The Cassina Effect"

[Drew]

Besides, it just feeds the trolls and fuckwits :laugh:Hmm, that's quite inflammatory. Trolling works this way, no?

[scumdog]

Do you always ride parallel to the center line? If not then why do you 'straighten the road' by apexing a corner in your own lane?

A childish effort.

Anyway, I bet one or two here know of cases where mates/loved ones departed because 'someone' decided it was safe to cut a corner they couldn't see around but 'thought' it was OK.

The old "I can't see any danger - ergo there ISN'T any danger" mentality.

[haydes55]

The threads about straightening corners. Not overtaking. I tend not to overtake on corners.



Normal overtaking, go for gold. Make sure its clear and pin that fucker.


I have overtaken around corners with limited visibility before. Safely as well.

Left hand sweeper after a straight, line of traffic (10 or so cars). Overtake most on the straight, I'm on the far right of the oncoming lane, from the position I can see about 150m ahead (that is a very approx measurement as my eye ruler is pretty crap, but basically plenty of time to rejoin the line of traffic if a speeding car came around the bend). Cruising past the cars at about 110km/h so I can easily slow to the pace of the traffic.

Another time I overtook on a tighter left hand corner whilst riding in a group. A very experienced and safe rider was ahead of me. He overtook safely and stayed about 50m ahead of me holding even pace in the opposite lane, I knew he could see further around the corner and stayed in the oncoming lane to signify it was clear to overtake.

Sorry if it's hard to follow my description, but I have one 2 occasions overtaken on corners I couldn't see around, done safely with no risk of a head on.

[swbarnett]

A childish effort.
No. A valid question to those that ask why one should "straighten the road". Valid because the "correct" line around most corners under most circumstances is definitely straighter than the corner itself.


Anyway, I bet one or two here know of cases where mates/loved ones departed because 'someone' decided it was safe to cut a corner they couldn't see around but 'thought' it was OK.

The old "I can't see any danger - ergo there ISN'T any danger" mentality.
There in lies the perception problem. Crossing the center line with clear visibility is not the same as cutting a blind corner. If done properly with a firm knowledge that there is no danger then what's the harm?

[Ulsterkiwi]

Positioning close to the centre line for a left - hander to get a better view and create more time for an appropriate response makes a lot of sense. HOWEVER, if a rider failed to sacrifice that position for oncoming traffic, it's plain dumb and if it was a Roadcraft test, it would be a fail. Roadcraft specifically talks about applying the rule flexibly to cater for each individual circumstance. There are blind bends and blind bends!

That would make sense given what I have been taught by instructors, mentors and my limited experience. 'Never sacrifice safety to maintain position' always rings in my head. Even on the most familiar of roads other road users can create enough variables that you rarely ride exactly the same line each time you ride that road.

I see the sense in taking corner in such a way as to maximise visibility but if I do that and see a B Train coming my way and its a windy winter's day then I am going to get as far away as I can! :rolleyes:

[george formby]

No. A valid question to those that ask why one should "straighten the road". Valid because the "correct" line around most corners under most circumstances is definitely straighter than the corner itself.


There in lies the perception problem. Crossing the center line with clear visibility is not the same as cutting a blind corner. If done properly with a firm knowledge that there is no danger then what's the harm?

If you have awareness, intention & ability & your action is conscious & considered then probably none. Alas, I see little of this attitude on the road.
Lack of all the above is far more common & should be expected.

[george formby]

I see the sense in taking corner in such a way as to maximise visibility but if I do that and see a B Train coming my way and its a windy winter's day then I am going to get as far away as I can! :rolleyes:

Yup. I want as much space & time as possible to get out of dodge and will use as much road as I need to achieve that. Within the law, of course.

[haydes55]

It was only safe because you were lucky. There has been a lot of debate that we should never trust the judgement of others on the road and you think that is safe?


Luck had nothing to do with my survival. I allowed myself 2 escape routes as well as plenty of time to safely re-enter the traffic flow. The only possible situation where my overtake would carry any risk would be if a large vehicle came around the corner at 200km/h. Then I would of had to go straight to the center line brake for half a second and pull behind the car (I was on the little 300 so no chance of accelerating into a gap). If it was a wall of motorbikes going 250km/h I would have just gone 1m wider and ridden in the oncoming lanes shoulder.

Luck is something that dead people relied on. I never leave any situation where my life is at stake to chance.

There are plenty of situations where breaking the law is safe. And plenty of situations where following the law is unsafe. I choose to do what is safe, if Mr popo wants to try tell me otherwise, I'm an arrogant enough cunt to try make his day enjoyable.....

[swbarnett]

If you have awareness, intention & ability & your action is conscious & considered then probably none. Alas, I see little of this attitude on the road.
Lack of all the above is far more common & should be expected.
Agreed. I just mean to say that the action is not inherently dangerous unless it's abused. I dare say this is also the attitude of the UK cops.

[swbarnett]

I would have just gone 1m wider and ridden in the oncoming lanes shoulder.
Bad idea. If the opposing vehicle also tries to avoid a collision they will more than likely veer left, right into your new path.

[george formby]

Agreed. I just mean to say that the action is not inherently dangerous unless it's abused. I dare say this is also the attitude of the UK cops.

Cops being abusive!:shit: Shirley not?

I have been pulled in the UK for being a dangerous dick head & ignored for exceeding the speed limit in a safe situation by the feds. I think same as here common sense prevails quite often.


Seeing the number of people who cut corners, cross the centre line, makes me think they do not know where there vehicle is positioned on the road. Not thinking, looking or giving a shit.
I reckon more than 30% of oncoming vehicles I meet on my daily commute will be over the centre line. During the holidays getting towards 70%.

[Urano]

at 2:41 ish into the video the riders straighten the road, ie cross over the centre line to smooth out their route but only when they can see well ahead.
How would this go down with NZ police?

do they really have problems if there's a broken center line?

(by the way, the thing i noticed is that in a similar road, with bushes, trees, bends and not always the clearest visibility, here it wouldn't have been a broken line...)



Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

have you seen their bikes? i'm pretty surprised they even lean... :lol:

[haydes55]

I hope you are assuming there is a big enough gap between cars to pull into and it would be very easy to predict that wrong if they are bumper to bumper. I do agree there can be some situations where following the law is unsafe but not plenty otherwise the law would be relaxed wouldn't it? Traffic law that is.


The cars were going 80-90ish km/h. They weren't bumper to bumper. Even following with a 2 second gap there's plenty of room for a motorbike, even staggered with the cars or alongside the cars still in their lane.

[george formby]

have you seen their bikes? i'm pretty surprised they even lean... :lol:



Contact patch is the same as any big bike. It's stopping them leaning that gets me.

[Ulsterkiwi]

When riding the earthquake damaged roads in ChCh "position" can vary very suddenly so I focus on safety and who cares about riding the same line for the sake of it being the same line anyway.

huh? :wacko:

lots of people seem to think you talk crap, I don't know, but it takes a special kind of special to sound like you are arguing with someone who has just made the point you are trying to make.

[george formby]

huh? :wacko:

lots of people seem to think you talk crap, I don't know, but it takes a special kind of special to sound like you are arguing with someone who has just made the point you are trying to make.

Special kind of special. Post of the evening. Ta.

[unstuck]

Special kind of special. Post of the evening. Ta.

LOL, yep, thats a goodun.:2thumbsup

[scumdog]

There in lies the perception problem. Crossing the center line with clear visibility is not the same as cutting a blind corner. If done properly with a firm knowledge that there is no danger then what's the harm?


I would hazard a guess that most people who perpetrated a head-on collision had a 'firm knowledge' there was no danger when they commenced the their tragic mannouevre, the corner would not have been 'blind' in their estimation.

[scumdog]

huh? :wacko:

lots of people seem to think you talk crap, I don't know, but it takes a special kind of special to sound like you are arguing with someone who has just made the point you are trying to make.

My brain is hurting.

A lot.:crazy:

[george formby]

My brain is hurting.

A lot.:crazy:

I had to read it threes times.

[R650R]

Another time I overtook on a tighter left hand corner whilst riding in a group. A very experienced and safe rider was ahead of me. He overtook safely and stayed about 50m ahead of me holding even pace in the opposite lane, I knew he could see further around the corner and stayed in the oncoming lane to signify it was clear to overtake.



Never rely on someone elses position/signals or word that its clear to be out there.
A mate of mine overtook a car on blind corner on SH5 Tirau to Rotovegas in truck after truck ahead told him on CB it was clear.
Fractions of a second later he cancelled the all clear after mate already commited...
Result - oncoming car confronted by truck at 100 +100, panics and 360s into ditch, no direct collision. Lucky for him he only lost his job over it and cops gave him weak $150 fine.
But if ended in tragedy guess who the one in court will be.
There's so many things to be caught out by when taking shortcuts overtaking, its too easy to lose sight of an oncoming car behind a tree of bush etc...
Then there's the risk of several *555 stasi phoning you in and its goodbye license or expensive court case at the least...
People tend to freak out before you will and brake closing any gap you intended to pull back into also...

[swbarnett]

I would hazard a guess that most people who perpetrated a head-on collision had a 'firm knowledge' there was no danger when they commenced the their tragic mannouevre, the corner would not have been 'blind' in their estimation.
It's thinking like that that makes me wonder how anybody ever gets anywhere.

Apply that to some legal manoeuvres and we'd never set tyre to road.

[nzspokes]

Check out about 1.50 in this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=23rs2krvrxE

And crossing the line in a corner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNfFLuUC1QA&feature=player_detailpage

[ducatilover]

That guy on the 848 certainly couldn't ride very well


And all you fullas is pussies ow.

[ellipsis]

That guy on the 848 certainly couldn't ride very well


...there's a lot of it about...toys and mindsets are cheap...

[Drew]

There are countless fail compilations, consisting of nothing but that one corner where the Ducati went down.

[eldog]

Maybe stlightly off topic.

I hate meeting oncoming vehicles on my side of the road, by those talentless steerers crossing the centre line on blind corners and overtaking on blind hills.

Have often followed these morons, and for a few years travelled the Franklin Area each day would see at least 1 or 2 doing some of the above. Then watch the face of panic when they realise that they are in the wrong place! :mad:

From the above experiences I try not to be close to the centre line unless I can see a long way ahead.
I am being 'trained' by an IAM member who does ride to the edge of the lane, but reminds you that 'Safety' is paramount, and if it isn't safe to do so then stay clear of edges of the lanes. The left hand edge can also be difficult in the rural areas and when new chip seal has been laid with loose stones causing loss of traction.

I have used the other side of the lane to overtake or move around another obstacle when I have made sure it is safe to do so.

[nzspokes]

There are countless fail compilations, consisting of nothing but that one corner where the Ducati went down.

Well yes, but that give us the ability to get vids of all kinds on muppetry to use to prove a point.

[ducatilover]

There are countless fail compilations, consisting of nothing but that one corner where the Ducati went down.

There are a few vids of that road being well ridden, Mulholland drive in CA. Pretty cool bit of road, if it wasn't coated in squidjuice


Looks like a place I'd go and flip one of mine

[eldog]

So from what you have said then it is really safer and more relaxing to ride in the middle of the lane? I would far rather just have to focus on where I am going and what other traffic is doing than add on having to play dodgem with gravel and broken seal at the edge of the road as well. Mind you though in ChCh we occasionally have to play dodgem with gravel and pot holes in the centre of the road too.

I am trying to get more skilled at riding everywhere, even at the edges of the lane, but I ride to the conditions and I am aware of what I can expect to appear on the roads that I ride. I know my life and ride is upto ME to ride the best I can and wear good gear etc although I could be taken out by any event etc I have underestimated.
Yeah I know BORING AS. FYI - Eventually want to Tour NZ and do some Long Distance rides, NZ is such a good place to tour

[cheshirecat]

So from what you have said then it is really safer and more relaxing to ride in the middle of the lane? I would far rather just have to focus on where I am going and what other traffic is doing than add on having to play dodgem with gravel and broken seal at the edge of the road as well. Mind you though in ChCh we occasionally have to play dodgem with gravel and pot holes in the centre of the road too.

You need to get some Romans in. Some of their roads were 16 meters wide and 6 meters high. Not only only they had grooves to keep oncoming chariots apart. Hm, now why, oh never mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads_in_Britain#mediaviewer/File:Roman.Britain.roads.jpg

[ellipsis]

...a sportster with a cheap chinese tyre on the back coupled with the factory boing is all thats required to sort out holes and loose shit...who the fuck wants to play with the fucking centre line...it's cold and never ending out there man...where the fuck is the sarcasm font when it's needed...more muppets needed for this play...



<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2gE4UncSsAI?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[rastuscat]

There in lies the perception problem. Crossing the center line with clear visibility is not the same as cutting a blind corner. If done properly with a firm knowledge that there is no danger then what's the harm?

You'd be surprised how many good and sensible folk collide with things they didn't see. Inattention blindness disorder. It affects us all. Well, the humans amongst us anyway.

Only thing that can virtually guarantee no head ons is if everyone stayed on their own side of the road.

[unstuck]

You'd be surprised how many good and sensible folk collide with things they didn't see. Inattention blindness disorder. It affects us all. Well, the humans amongst us anyway.

Only thing that can virtually guarantee no head ons is if everyone stayed on their own side of the road.

Yep, has happened to me a couple of times. Was sure there was nothing there, then, nek minit, holy shit where did that come from.:o

[unstuck]

Didn't you know Rastus there are some on here that can read the minds of other drivers and their mind reading ability has always kept them safe. If we all had that ability there would be no accidents eh.

Now your just sounding like a snide little cock.:not:

[swbarnett]

You'd be surprised how many good and sensible folk collide with things they didn't see.
Being "good and sensible" doesn't make you a good driver.


Only thing that can virtually guarantee no head ons is if everyone stayed on their own side of the road.
So no overtaking then?

We're allowed to overtake (when it's safe) to make progress. I don't see how straightening the road is any different.

[buggerit]

You'd be surprised how many good and sensible folk collide with things they didn't see. Inattention blindness disorder. It affects us all. Well, the humans amongst us anyway.

Only thing that can virtually guarantee no head ons is if everyone stayed on their own side of the road.

Its interesting how our eyes actually work.
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

[FJRider]

You'd be surprised how many good and sensible folk collide with things they didn't see. Inattention blindness disorder. It affects us all. Well, the humans amongst us anyway.

They DO see things ... just not SOON enough. They don't have inattention deafness ... they still hear their cell phone ring/text alerts ...


Only thing that can virtually guarantee no head ons is if everyone stayed on their own side of the road.

Great ... but the "nose to tail" meetings can hurt too ... don't you hate it when people get in your way ... ???

[unstuck]

don't you hate it when people get in your way ... ???

Yep, the bastards.:msn-wink:

[Ribit]

Was watching Road patrol last night (or whatever the cop show is called) and the cop handed out a ticket to a cager that was crossing the center line while corning.

[ducatilover]

What you are saying then is that staying on the correct side of the road just slows you down too much whether there is slow traffic in front of you or not?

I suggest you read it slowly. The message was very clear.
You interperet things in strange ways, probably just to justify your distaste for other people with strong opinions.

Nothing wrong with cutting a corner where it's safe. I personally don't cut very often, unless there is a cunty camber and strange apex, where I can see it is clear. I find you never really need to cut on a bike, far too much fun to be had in my own lane.

The bunch of precious wimps on here is getting greater. I vote Mashy for PM

[ducatilover]

Didn't you know Rastus there are some on here that can read the minds of other drivers and their mind reading ability has always kept them safe. If we all had that ability there would be no accidents eh.
You're a ballsack.

[buggerit]

Didn't you know Rastus there are some on here that can read the minds of other drivers and their mind reading ability has always kept them safe. If we all had that ability there would be no accidents eh.

The ones with an IQ greater than a rabbit call it observation, they can generally tie their own shoe laces too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I reg straighten certain pieces of road out. Far less taxing on everything.

[ducatilover]

Any cop would consider your logic strange too and if there was nothing wrong with it there would be no fine for doing it now would there?
I occasionally break road rules when I consider its "Safe" too but legally speaking we are not allowed to be our own judges of the law when we break it eh.

I never said it wasn't illegal ;)

I have no logic

[swbarnett]

What you are saying then is that staying on the correct side of the road just slows you down too much whether there is slow traffic in front of you or not?
I'm saying no such thing. I'm just saying that I can't see what's so wrong with it. A view shared by the UK police force it seems.

[swbarnett]

Any cop would consider your logic strange too and if there was nothing wrong with it there would be no fine for doing it now would there?
The law is not always right. That's why it's not set in stone.

[swbarnett]

As NZ police would never agree with your argument if its ok for UK police it should be legally ok here too, maybe you will just have to go and live there if you want to do it legally.
You seem to have the mistaken impression that I'm talking about the legality of the practice. I'm not. I know that if I do it here and a cop sees it I'm likely to get a ticket. All I'm talking about is whether calling the practice dangerous holds water.

[ellipsis]

...I'm going to go out now and pour concrete in the rain, with leaky boots and only a bent stick to screed it off and make it nice and flat, on my own...but it beats listening to cassina's shit...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ok I will bow out as there are many discussions on Kiwibiker about the logic of laws speed tolerance being a big one but things wont change no matter how big the debate is on here is eh. Out of the 2 though allowing straightening of the road is perhaps more dangerous than the 10km speed tolerance I feel.

I get the feeling not too many peeps give a shit what you think.

[swbarnett]

things wont change no matter how big the debate is on here is eh.
I beg to differ. How does an unjust law get repealed? Well, it all starts with public discussion. Forums like this are really no different than standing up on a soap box in the town square.



Out of the 2 though allowing straightening of the road is perhaps more dangerous than the 10km speed tolerance I feel.
Totally agree. That doesn't make either of them in any way dangerous if used judiciously.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It seems to be a favourite pass time as I note in some other threads I have not debated in the same sort of shit slinging goes on too.

English please.

[Drew]

English please.Now just steady on there wee fella. You can't expect the unwashed masses of KB, to make sense all/any of the time!

[Berries]

Ok I will bow out as there are many discussions on Kiwibiker about the logic of laws speed tolerance being a big one but things wont change no matter how big the debate is on here is eh. Out of the 2 though allowing straightening of the road is perhaps more dangerous than the 10km speed tolerance I feel.
Jesus Christ. The thread was about straightening the road where it was safe to do so, not about straightening the road on blind corners, crests, with oncoming traffic, driveways, etc etc etfc.


That's odd because I would not get so many responses if they did not give a shit.
No, it is because you come across as a complete imbecile with your tone, your views, your head in the sand, your obvious feeling of righteousness and the fact you post unrelated nonsense like the quote above. No offence.

[bogan]

not about straightening the road on blind corners

One must question the viability of straightening a thing given the fact that its end point is still unknown :innocent:

[GTRMAN]

One must question the viability of straightening a thing given the fact that its end point is still unknown :innocent:
stop drinking the coolaid

[FJRider]

Jesus Christ. The thread was about straightening the road where it was safe to do so, not about straightening the road on blind corners, crests, with oncoming traffic, driveways, etc etc etc.

Plenty (of bikers) have died through their actions on the road that they had thought safe ... and often ... done on the road many times before without incident.

[swbarnett]

Plenty (of bikers) have died through their actions on the road that they had thought safe ... and often ... done on the road many times before without incident.
So what? I would hazard a guess to say that the vast majority or road fatalities happen with all involved parties thinking their driving was "safe".

[nzspokes]

I would hazard a guess to say that the vast majority or road fatalities happen with all involved parties thinking their driving was "safe".

Thanks Captain Obvious.

People generally drive along thinking they are about to kill themselves. I realize some do but that's a separate issue.

[FJRider]

So what? I would hazard a guess to say that the vast majority or road fatalities happen with all involved parties thinking their driving was "safe".

I think THAT is the Road Police argument ... # One.

Replies to said argument is usually .. I thought it was safe ... or ... I didn't know THAT would/could happen.

Get it right ... no problem.

Get it wrong ...

[Berries]

Plenty (of bikers) have died through their actions on the road that they had thought safe ... and often ... done on the road many times before without incident.
Then it wasn't safe was it?

If you are straightening a corner, which is what this thread is about, and you can see right through it, can see no oncoming vehicles, no intersections or driveways and no other hazards on the road all the way through it then how is it unsafe? I will ignore comments about falling off while crossing the centre line.

[FJRider]

There are a few posters on here with that attitude.

Only idiots do the unsafe riding on the open road. A few of those on here too ... :crazy:

[FJRider]

Then it wasn't safe was it?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ...


... and you can see right through it, can see no oncoming vehicles.

On familiar roads ... that seems simple. But "Things" that were not on the road prior .. (sheep/cattle/parked cars etc) and NOT seen prior ... have a habit of popping up.

Driver/rider responsibility to ensure it IS safe.

Get it right .. ::2thumbsup

get it WRONG ... :argh:

[Berries]

Stop the planet.



I want to get off.

[G4L4XY]

Pfft no wheelies, no knee-down....They're pretty keen on riding on the painted lines in wet weather though

[swbarnett]

Get it right ... no problem.

Get it wrong ...
Which is exactly my point. A given action can't be labelled dangerous if, when done right, has almost no chance of ending in disaster.

[swbarnett]

They're pretty keen on riding on the painted lines in wet weather though
A lot of the painted lines I've seen on the open road are the least of one's worries when it comes to grip problems. They're often very old and worn down to almost nothing.

[scumdog]

Which is exactly my point. A given action can't be labelled dangerous if, when done right, has almost no chance of ending in disaster.

Pfft...the cemeteries are full of people that thought along those lines...

[FJRider]

Which is exactly my point. A given action can't be labelled dangerous if, when done right, has almost no chance of ending in disaster.

Given actions are one thing ... given circumstances are another. You only know ANY road as well as the last time you traveled it.

A bit of tar seal may have lifted ... a diesel trail may have been left over the apex of the corner ... a gate nearby may have been left open letting stock on the roadside .... the list goes on.

UNKNOWN dangers have NO danger ... right .. ??? (well maybe ... until you find them)

And when that happens ... "It (still) wasn't MY fault ... because ..." ;)

[Berries]

Given actions are one thing ... given circumstances are another. You only know ANY road as well as the last time you traveled it.

A bit of tar seal may have lifted ... a diesel trail may have been left over the apex of the corner ... a gate nearby may have been left open letting stock on the roadside .... the list goes on.
And on and on. But these are all dangers which could affect the lane you are in just as much as the lane you might stray in to if straightening the road.

[swbarnett]

Pfft...the cemeteries are full of people that thought along those lines...
You do realise that that's all any sentient being is capable of?

EVERY action we do (not just on the road) unless it's the first time is based on either our own or other's experience i.e. if it has worked many times before why shouldn't it work again under the same circumstances.

[swbarnett]

Given actions are one thing ... given circumstances are another. You only know ANY road as well as the last time you traveled it.
Which is exactly why I said "when done right". You're talking about times when it's done wrong.

[george formby]

Given actions are one thing ... given circumstances are another. You only know ANY road as well as the last time you traveled it.

A bit of tar seal may have lifted ... a diesel trail may have been left over the apex of the corner ... a gate nearby may have been left open letting stock on the roadside .... the list goes on.

UNKNOWN dangers have NO danger ... right .. ??? (well maybe ... until you find them)

And when that happens ... "It (still) wasn't MY fault ... because ..." ;)

Concur. A lorra accidents happen close to home or on familiar roads. Familiarity breeds, er, lack of thinking I guess. The feds may well straighten the road but they have a far better reason for doing so than Joe Public.

I'm all for developing good habits. The centre line is not an optional suggestion. Crossing it is laziness & unnecessary. Most of the time.

I know a few roads round here intimately but never get any quicker on them. My speed is dictated by how far I can see & stop. The visibility never changes. Straightening out a series of bends that you can see through strikes me as being unmotorcycling. More lean vicar I say.

[swbarnett]

Crossing it is laziness & unnecessary. Most of the time.
While I agree with the above as yet no-one has yet answered the real question - why is is considered unsafe if done properly?



I know a few roads round here intimately but never get any quicker on them. My speed is dictated by how far I can see & stop. The visibility never changes.
No argument here.


Straightening out a series of bends that you can see through strikes me as being unmotorcycling. More lean vicar I say.
In that case why do we deviate from the curve of the corner at all? Do you have a problem with the likes of Rossi and Marquez straightening their road?

[george formby]

While I agree with the above as yet no-one has yet answered the real question - why is is considered unsafe if done properly?

If done properly then it has no consequence. My experience of other road users straightening the road is mainly on blind corners which has potentially horrendous consequences. A bad habit created by thoughtlessness.
Considered road position is exactly that. Conscious & considered.




In that case why do we deviate from the curve of the corner at all? Do you have a problem with the likes of Rossi and Marquez straightening their road?

I think that perfectly highlights the risk of straightening the public highway without considered reason. Crossing the centre line to increase safety is valid. Doing so to be quicker is cock. My only problem with Rossi is the time it's taking him to get back on top. No probs at all with MM, might even try the elbow down front wheel save meself. In my lane of course.;)

Hope that bold bit is not shouty.

[swbarnett]

Crossing the centre line to increase safety is valid. Doing so to be quicker is cock.
I think we're going to have to agree to differ on this one. Nobody has come up with a valid reason for the latter statement above.

[Lelitu]

While I agree with the above as yet no-one has yet answered the real question - why is is considered unsafe if done properly?


it's generally considered unsafe, not because it's dangerous when done properly, but because it's very dangerous when done improperly, and quite easy to fuck up.

it only takes a moment or two's lapse in attention to really fuck it up and make a mess of yourself.

[Drew]

I think that perfectly highlights the risk of straightening the public highway without considered reason. Crossing the centre line to increase safety is valid. Doing so to be quicker is cock. My only problem with Rossi is the time it's taking him to get back on top. No probs at all with MM, might even try the elbow down front wheel save meself. In my lane of course.;)

Hope that bold bit is not shouty.Keh? Your whole post is cock then. If your only concern is safety then staying in your own lane, and going slower is the obvious answer.

[FJRider]

While I agree with the above as yet no-one has yet answered the real question - why is is considered unsafe if done properly?


You only know it was safe .. when you make it through .. safely .. ;)

[Berries]

While I agree with the above as yet no-one has yet answered the real question - why is is considered unsafe if done properly?
How can it be?

If it is unsafe, when done properly with all due consideration to all the potential dangers mentioned in this thread (including fucking up), then it must be unsafe to corner in your own lane as well. Might as well stay in bed.

[swbarnett]

it's generally considered unsafe, not because it's dangerous when done properly, but because it's very dangerous when done improperly, and quite easy to fuck up.

it only takes a moment or two's lapse in attention to really fuck it up and make a mess of yourself.
The same could be said for overtaking. But that's legal and generally accepted.

[swbarnett]

How can it be?

If it is unsafe, when done properly with all due consideration to all the potential dangers mentioned in this thread (including fucking up), then it must be unsafe to corner in your own lane as well. Might as well stay in bed.
Which is exactly my point.

[jonbuoy]

I´m sure those guys are better trained riders than me but I´m still gonna call bullshit - if another car/bike was coming the other way doing a similar thing at well over the speed limit he didn't have enough room to see far enough ahead for that maneuver.

[GrayWolf]

No discussion needed.
$150.
Ka-ching!

Funny thing is... straightening the road is 'lifted' from the UK Police roadcraft manual, the very same 'system' used for the IAM, and I believe the basis of the training a lot of Popo forces use.....

Same as the 'keep left' rule... really improves vision around a left hand bend (not).

It's not a practice I use constantly, but on a clear road, with plenty of vision (IE series of small left/right you can clearly see the length of, then yes I'll straighten the road.

Outside of 'law enforcement issues' it's a debate that seems hotly defended from both sides......

[Blackbird]

Funny thing is... straightening the road is 'lifted' from the UK Police roadcraft manual, the very same 'system' used for the IAM, and I believe the basis of the training a lot of Popo forces use.....

Same as the 'keep left' rule... really improves vision around a left hand bend (not).

Do you want to quote verbatim from Roadcraft because I think you're being a bit selective :whistle:

In both the previous and latest issues, it talks about moving your bike from one side of YOUR road space (the left lane) to the other. It also says don't take a straighter course until you can see clearly across the bend. That may or may not mean crossing the centre line but in any event, it clearly says you have to see clearly across the bend. As crossing the centre line under those conditions is not legal in NZ and people sticking to their respective side of the road undoubtedly reduces the risk of accidents, it's not supported here.

This thread has all the hallmarks of matching Cassina's (in)famous saga about the South Island rider showing good Roadcraft :crazy:

[jonbuoy]

Its just a daft/pointless thing to do on the road unless you can see really far off in the distance and in that video it didn't look that way to me.

[Berries]

This thread has all the hallmarks of matching Cassina's (in)famous saga about the South Island rider showing good Roadcraft :crazy:
We are not talking roadcraft though, or the legality. The question was is straightening the road unsafe.

The answer to me appears to be to be that no, it is not always unsafe however it is unsafe if you get twatted while doing it. A bit like riding a motorbike in general.

[george formby]

The answer to me appears to be to be that no, it is not always unsafe however it is unsafe if you get twatted while doing it. A bit like riding a motorbike in general.


Excellent. No argument from me.

[ellipsis]

...settled then.............................................. ...........?

[swbarnett]

...settled then.............................................. ...........?
Definitely is as far as I'm concerned.

[Berries]

My work here is done.




Nanu nanu.

[unstuck]

But what about those corners where you think you can see all the way through it, but you can't. :crazy:

[george formby]

But what about those corners where you think you can see all the way through it, but you can't. :crazy:

And dips, too. Don't forget dips. Been caught out by more dips than misjudged corners. Not to the point of being twatted thankfully. Just had to breath in a bit.

[dinosaur]

Why 'straighten the road' - I thought motorcycling was all about flowing through the bends and corners.

Better visibilty for a start
better lines and less to avoid less desirable elements like wet tar, water, road works, loose pea metal .......
If you can see clearly - why not?

[unstuck]

And dips, too. Don't forget dips. Been caught out by more dips than misjudged corners. Not to the point of being twatted thankfully. Just had to breath in a bit.

Yeah, those dips are bad news, we should ban them, and corners. Keep everything straight and orderly, that way all the tards have less to hurt themselves on. :2thumbsup

[dinosaur]

No discussion needed.
$150.
Ka-ching!

I think you'll find you maybe wrong (yes i know what you do for a living) but there is no law preventing you from crossing the center line - yes keep as far left as practical - but whats Practical

As i understand it;
Yellow no passing line - is actually the only time you are legally required to stay on the left of that line (and you can still overtake as long as you stay to the left of the solid yellow line, have a 100 meters clear visibility .... bla bla bla)

A solid white line is used to show traffic lanes where traffic is being directed to stay in the lane, and shouldn't be crossed as they are designed to direct traffic flow (mainly in town or motorways, you'll find solid white lines on main roads where there is some kind of obstacle to vision ahead or around the corner that may catch a driver or rider out

However I would caution that using the 'whole road' where you can so you can go faster is foolish - and leaves you in the position of not being able to get back onto your side of the road should something come the other way or you missed some thing

[Ulsterkiwi]

Fascinating discussion, especially when I was told there wasnt anything to discuss :lol:

I guess what this has shown (like many other threads) is that no discussion can cover each and every scenario. Every rider makes a series of decisions on every ride and they are usually the 'best' that can be made at that time; few will deliberately choose to put themselves in imminent danger!

I tend to think part of the fun and challenge of riding a motorcycle is getting most out of your machine in the road space available to you. That usually means the lane you are in.
I wondered what the Police would think of maximising that space a bit more by straightening the road if conditions allowed. It seems they don't like it and some of us don't like that they don't like it.....or something........:wacko:

Another question. I know BRONZ, Ulysses and similar groups have contact with the authorities. Is there any statuatory obligation on the Police or NZTA to regularly consult with the public on reviewing or updating legislation and policy on road rules and policing?

[dinosaur]

Cornering while crossing white lines is running the risk of coming off as the road is wet and far to much time was riding the centre line risking a head on. They overlook the possibility of someone doing a left hand turn out of a driveway and having a head on.

Yes white lines are bloody slippery of course - but it all depends on level of experience, bike and tyre choice, and direction of corner.

if you're cornering and leaning to the right - and come off you'll go to the side of the road (and could end up wrapped around a power pole, or fence baton) but not likely to head into on coming traffic
However the same could be said for keeping too far left and hitting the outside white line

I don't mind a little bit of slippage int he right direction - and with good tyres and suspension my bike doesn't slip very often at all - when it does it regains traction real quick

You always - always need to be aware of the possibilty of some pulling out of any drive or intersection
Worst is when you're overtaking and some one pulls out into the oncoming lane heading toward you ....... fuckin heart stopping moments

[haydes55]

If you are able to have a choice as to whether you corner on a white line or not some of us would rather avoid and just save any cornering on white lines for when it's for the purpose of avoiding something else.


I don't know why wet white lines are even being mentioned in this thread, straightening a corner means you will be taking a bend closer to straight.... So less lean angle.... So less concern about grip.

How do you manage to get over a painted white line at a give way sign in the rain?

[Ulsterkiwi]

I don't know why wet white lines are even being mentioned in this thread, straightening a corner means you will be taking a bend closer to straight.... So less lean angle.... So less concern about grip.

How do you manage to get over a painted white line at a give way sign in the rain?

this, definitely this

[bogan]

How do you manage to get over a painted white line at a give way sign in the rain?

Pretty sure in another thread she mentioned they were shiny and she just couldn't see them; sounds safe right?

[george formby]

this, definitely this

Pulling away from a wet junction or less lean dangle?

A new chapter dawns. Straighten the road to be safer & smoother or to be faster?

[swbarnett]

But what about those corners where you think you can see all the way through it, but you can't. :crazy:
I think that's been covered already.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Pulling away from a wet junction or less lean dangle?

A new chapter dawns. Straighten the road to be safer & smoother or to be faster?

less lean.The reason we lean is to get around the corners right? If we straighten those corners there is less lean required. I thought the whole idea of straightening the road was supposed to make things smoother and safer. Discussing leaning on white lines while wet is a bit distracting.

I have been wrong before and it will happen again.

[swbarnett]

How do you manage to get over a painted white line at a give way sign in the rain?
That brings back a not to happy memory. Took off from the lights once and as my rear tyre crossed the white paint it slid out to the right - straight towards the underside of a rather large truck. I remember looking at the truck thinking "I'm toast!". Luckily there was enough forward momentum and I was yanked back on line when tyre once again hit tarmac.

[george formby]

less lean.The reason we lean is to get around the corners right? If we straighten those corners there is less lean required. I thought the whole idea of straightening the road was supposed to make things smoother and safer. Discussing leaning on white lines while wet is a bit distracting.

I have been wrong before and it will happen again.

I concur wid the safety angle. Roads up here rarely require a drastic lane shift unless your avoiding gravel or the dreaded green spooge which we have now.
The problems start when riders straighten the road to maintain a higher average speed. A different mind set.

[willytheekid]

Im confused?...I thought that cornering was GOOD??:confused:

297955

...so much for all that practice

[george formby]

Im confused?...I thought that cornering was GOOD??:confused:


...so much for all that practice

It's the best! Getting twatted sucks, though.

[GrayWolf]

Do you want to quote verbatim from Roadcraft because I think you're being a bit selective :whistle:

In both the previous and latest issues, it talks about moving your bike from one side of YOUR road space (the left lane) to the other. It also says don't take a straighter course until you can see clearly across the bend. That may or may not mean crossing the centre line but in any event, it clearly says you have to see clearly across the bend. As crossing the centre line under those conditions is not legal in NZ and people sticking to their respective side of the road undoubtedly reduces the risk of accidents, it's not supported here.

This thread has all the hallmarks of matching Cassina's (in)famous saga about the South Island rider showing good Roadcraft :crazy:

I did point out that I make sure I have a clear view through the bends, and just to respond to your point about the 'Police roadcrft' manual.....
This is a UK Police Rider on patrol on an unmarked 'busa.... note from about 20 seconds, the open 'S' bends that he 'straightens out'.

http://tinyurl.com/m9bbwvu

Whether here it is legal or not, it IS an accepted method of road navigation by many 'advanced' riders.
I certainly would not tell anyone who doesnt do it at any time they are wrong. In fact most of the time here, I see a large percentage of riders almost hugging the inner curb/line on bends.

[Blackbird]

I did point out that I make sure I have a clear view through the bends, and just to respond to your point about the 'Police roadcrft' manual.....
This is a UK Police Rider on patrol on an unmarked 'busa.... note from about 20 seconds, the open 'S' bends that he 'straightens out'.

http://tinyurl.com/m9bbwvu

Whether here it is legal or not, it IS an accepted method of road navigation by many 'advanced' riders.
I certainly would not tell anyone who doesnt do it at any time they are wrong. In fact most of the time here, I see a large percentage of riders almost hugging the inner curb/line on bends.

I take your point but pursuit riding by police is a whole world different from other riders who are less skilled. However, in NZ, the rules of the road take precedence, irrespective of whether a rider or car driver thinks it's a stupid rule or not. You're quite right about hugging the inner track too. A friend of mine used to do that and a few years ago, dropped his bike avoiding a sheep which he'd have seen earlier had he been closer to the centre line. I will freely admit that my views are heavily influenced by the fact that on the Coromandel Peninsula where I live, the number of cars and bikes cutting blind corners is appallingly high. Also, my IAM training over the last 3 years has conditioned me not to cut corners. Reckon this has been a life-saver on the Peninsula in particular :yes:

[Ulsterkiwi]

I take your point but pursuit riding by police is a whole world different from other riders who are less skilled. However, in NZ, the rules of the road take precedence, irrespective of whether a rider or car driver thinks it's a stupid rule or not. You're quite right about hugging the inner track too. A friend of mine used to do that and a few years ago, dropped his bike avoiding a sheep which he'd have seen earlier had he been closer to the centre line. I will freely admit that my views are heavily influenced by the fact that on the Coromandel Peninsula where I live, the number of cars and bikes cutting blind corners is appallingly high. Also, my IAM training over the last 3 years has conditioned me not to cut corners. Reckon this has been a life-saver on the Peninsula in particular :yes:

I think you hit on something there (pun not intended). I accept there are loads of people on here who have been riding for years and years. However those 'years and years' might equate to being on the bike twice a month over the summer months on the same roads and thats it. Its easy then to think of yourself as really experienced and not take heed of well thought out, evidence based theory and practice from experts who do this for a living.

So we take the Coromandel as an example, it seems to be a magnet for the weekend biker who refuses to accept there might be a better way of doing things and yet they constantly get into trouble and come off second best.

I will maybe get blasted now for discounting experience other than my own, not my intention. Just saying a smart approach is to consider that a bit of training and reflecting on what you do on the road can make a huge difference. If you think you have nothing to learn you probably missed the point.

I can see the thinking behind straightening the road but the rules here say otherwise if it means crossing the centre line. Knowing that you make your decision whether to or not and accept the consequences. Maybe the major point is you can make your ride safer and more enjoyable by taking steps to maximise what you can see and that means making the most of the road available to you.

[Erelyes]

http://tinyurl.com/m9bbwvu

5:17.... hahahahaha