Popos go for Hondas

[rastuscat]

It seems it's now public knowledge.

In the recent tender for the supply of Police patrol bikes, the ST1300PA has been chosen.

It'll take a long time for the first to be delivered, but it seems decided.

Sigh. More Honda jokes on the horizon.:crazy:

[jellywrestler]

dont laugh, sonny Barger; founder of the Hells Onions once said the best bike was a Honda ST1100, before those 1300's were even thought of.

[Big Dog]

I thought the pan euro was a bit small compared to the current ones?
Can I has one of the old ones when you bin them?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2011-honda-st1300pa-ar113603.html

[Oakie]

Why do they go for such big bikes when they hardly ever seem to leave town? Would have thought a 600 / 750 might have been more fit for purpose. Rastus?

[R650R]

So those reviewing the tenders never met the new BMW police bike sales rep :)

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[R650R]

May as well be in a car with the size of those Hondas, this is much more practical

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[george formby]

So those reviewing the tenders never met the new BMW police bike sales rep :)


That's the best way to dress on a Pan in summer, in traffic. They get awfully warm.

Scottish feds, Perth I think, had a couple of R1's for motorway patrol. Must have really focused the riders attention chasing hoons during the winter, black ice, slush & all.

Be interested to read an informed opinion when the new fleet has done some work.

[Gremlin]

Ahah, a significant change then, considering they've had BMWs for a few years. Is there any material on why the change was made?

So... next year a 2013 R1200RT being sold for a bargain? :shifty:

[Fern]

well whatever bike it maybe, loud pipes save lives, small pipes kill licences... a Auckland police cop scared the living daylights out of me coming out of the CBD the other night, full flashing lights but no sirens... quiet as hell. I was shifting a fair few kms, with only one mirror... yowzers... luckily they were off to a prang down south...

[Gremlin]

I remember when the MOT dumped their old BMWs they said it was because they cost as much as a car to service. So that may be the same reason why the modern ones are being dumped.
Clutches on the R1200RT are done every 50k I believe, and that is part of the significant maintenance cost. The BMWs are managed by Custom Fleet (well, in Auckland anyway) I believe. The likes of Kawasaki actively targetted that fact when trying to sell to USA law enforcement demonstrating their clutch job was a few hundy, whereas BMW is a couple of thousand. Bear in mind the review is done however regularly, and it's always come back BMW... except they lost it for some reason this time...

The interesting thing is that very few of the options are actually factory built Authority Editions, BMW being one. ST1300 isn't, so I'm curious how they are being fitted out, who will maintain, fit out etc. That said, Experience sources the bike and Nautech fits the comms and lights currently.

[Big Dog]

Maybe that is why the police BMW I sat on at an expo accommodated my bulk so easily but the bike I was pointed to as being the same at experience was soggy in the suspension and seemed much smaller physically. Not an authority edition at experience?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Sitting on that BMW at the expo made me want to be a cop. Sitting on the one at experience had me wondering how much money had gone in to making them suitable for all day use.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[willytheekid]

Great bikes!...bout time you traded up mate (I hear those ones don't spontaneously combust ;))


There such an amazing brand....Even the council are looking at trading up to honda's to get the job done quicker.
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seriously tho...that V4 engine! :drool: ...sold right there, and so will you be ;)

...TRULY looking forward to your ride review and opinion of it Rastuscat :yes:


ps...ya Ghay onda rider! lol

[rastuscat]

Great bikes!...bout time you traded up mate (I hear those ones don't spontaneously combust ;))


There such an amazing brand....Even the council are looking at trading up to honda's to get the job done quicker.
297949

seriously tho...that V4 engine! :drool: ...sold right there, and so will you be ;)

...TRULY looking forward to your ride review and opinion of it Rastuscat :yes:


ps...ya Ghay onda rider! lol

Our replacement process being what it is, I doubt we'll be seeing one this year.

[george formby]

Our replacement process being what it is, I doubt we'll be seeing one this year.

Well jump lively. You still have time to get a donut warmer fitted. Just above the right cylinder head.

[Tazz]

Our replacement process being what it is, I doubt we'll be seeing one this year.

Did you guys not only just get some new BMW's a couple of months ago like :scratch:

[Gremlin]

Maybe that is why the police BMW I sat on at an expo accommodated my bulk so easily but the bike I was pointed to as being the same at experience was soggy in the suspension and seemed much smaller physically. Not an authority edition at experience?
Most of the RT you come across are not Authority Edition spec, basically, unless it's a cop bike or there were two for a security company (Damien Rush? originally and since sold) then they are all regular. Spec within both can vary anyway, and it's all from factory. Usually the Authority version doesn't get the goodies like ESA, Radio and has a lower final drive ratio to allow slower speeds (the stock one has quite high gearing being a touring bike). Then you have the obvious stuff like the crash bars front and rear, slim panniers and single seat with pod behind etc. They're also wired from factory with extra light switches and the 2nd battery to run it all...

Thinking about it, it's possible one had ESA and one didn't (hell, could even be aftermarket gear too) and that could account for a difference. Size wise, all R1200RT are the same, but there are options like lower seats. Suspension can also change the ride height.

I considered a custom spec RT at one point with some Authority bits, but then realised the GSA is probably better for what I do, and the GSA also has a lower final drive ratio than most other models (about 8kph up hills before needing the clutch). Still... tis fun looking at the details :)

[willytheekid]

yup...Typical V4 honda

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:D

[Big Dog]

Most of the RT you come across are not Authority Edition spec, basically, unless it's a cop bike or there were two for a security company (Damien Rush? originally and since sold) then they are all regular. Spec within both can vary anyway, and it's all from factory. Usually the Authority version doesn't get the goodies like ESA, Radio and has a lower final drive ratio to allow slower speeds (the stock one has quite high gearing being a touring bike). Then you have the obvious stuff like the crash bars front and rear, slim panniers and single seat with pod behind etc. They're also wired from factory with extra light switches and the 2nd battery to run it all...

Thinking about it, it's possible one had ESA and one didn't (hell, could even be aftermarket gear too) and that could account for a difference. Size wise, all R1200RT are the same, but there are options like lower seats. Suspension can also change the ride height.

I considered a custom spec RT at one point with some Authority bits, but then realised the GSA is probably better for what I do, and the GSA also has a lower final drive ratio than most other models (about 8kph up hills before needing the clutch). Still... tis fun looking at the details :)

Thanks for the details.
The one in the shop was on a firm setting but still seemed soggier than yesterday's Weetbix. The one at the expo was firmer than anything I have had the joy of riding. The "owner" who talked to me for a while about gear thoughts on the bike as an office etc was about my height but considerably more athletic. So he may have had the suspension sorted for him?

It may be my recollection or even just the differences of a nights sleep but I thought the seat height was higher, the tank wider, and taller ( giving the illusion of sitting in rather than on the bike) bars slightly higher and flatter and the whole (expo) bike generally felt more comfortable.

The shop bike felt ok, but did not inspire me to want one any more than other bikes half the price.

Mind you I did not take either for a ride.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Maha]

I once saw a cop on a bike
He told me his name was Mike
He said with a smile
Are you free for a while
It turns out that Mike was a dike.

[SPman]

well whatever bike it maybe, loud pipes save lives, small pipes kill licences... a Auckland police cop scared the living daylights out of me coming out of the CBD the other night, full flashing lights but no sirens... quiet as hell. I was shifting a fair few kms, with only one mirror... yowzers... luckily they were off to a prang down south...If I recall rightly, the Auckland city council cops had CB550s with fecking loud aftermarket pipes on them - well, the one who pulled me over in the Morry Minor did......

[Gremlin]

It may be my recollection or even just the differences of a nights sleep but I thought the seat height was higher, the tank wider, and taller ( giving the illusion of sitting in rather than on the bike) bars slightly higher and flatter and the whole (expo) bike generally felt more comfortable.

The shop bike felt ok, but did not inspire me to want one any more than other bikes half the price.

Assuming both were R1200RT, then those differences aren't possible. Depending on when this was, BMW has just released a new R1200RT (which the police certainly won't be getting now) and the police also have some R1150RT (previous model) in service, so that's a possible reason, which is essentially two different bikes.

They can feel slightly saggy when stationary or getting on them, but it's more about the road performance and whether it's suitable for you. Even a mate declared mine a couch, but revised that after riding it, and said it's a couch that can really go around corners...

[Big Dog]

Assuming both were R1200RT, then those differences aren't possible. Depending on when this was, BMW has just released a new R1200RT (which the police certainly won't be getting now) and the police also have some R1150RT (previous model) in service, so that's a possible reason, which is essentially two different bikes.

They can feel slightly saggy when stationary or getting on them, but it's more about the road performance and whether it's suitable for you. Even a mate declared mine a couch, but revised that after riding it, and said it's a couch that can really go around corners...

If memory serves it was speed show about 2-3 years ago and then the BMW shop in Kingsland (Experience?) the day after. I just told them I liked the one at the Expo and asked if they had one and how much.
If it hadn't felt like such a let down over the previous day I might have taken it for a spin... but then I would have probably bought it and no doubt the debt collectors would have been around sooner or later.

I really wish my finances would keep up with my tastes....

[AllanB]

It is due to the BMW's catching fire ............. :lol:


So if you get a Honda do I get a discount if you catch me speeding. You know, Honda thing and all that.

[Gremlin]

... but then I would have probably bought it and no doubt the debt collectors would have been around sooner or later.

I really wish my finances would keep up with my tastes....
Yar, they ain't cheap, but they're actually cheaper now than in the last couple of years... Still...


So if you get a Honda do I get a discount if you catch me speeding. You know, Honda thing and all that.
Probably give you a free reach around :crazy: I'd take the fine...

[Erelyes]

I once saw a cop on a bike
He told me his name was Mike
He said with a smile
Are you free for a while
It turns out that Mike was a dike.

When pulled up by a cop on a Honda
An offence they were trying to conjure.
Said I, 'This is daft
You can suck on my shaft'
... It transpired the cop's name was Rhonda.
:Police:

[awa355]

Coming to a highway near you. :lol: At least he wont pass his own bullet.

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[BMWGSER]

Those 10 year old design Honda's would be a lot cheaper to purchase than the new BMW RT or Yamaha's new FJR 1300
What's worse the Honda won't break down and cost very little to keep on the road, The Honda ST1100 that the Police last bought for APEC or CHOGEM? costed very little to keep on the road.
No more waiting for BMW parts with bikes of the road.
Rusticat it's not the end of the World least the Beancounters could of got You Guys VFR800's like Japan use , They would be to Fast.
Bugger I am a BMW fan/owner.

[rastuscat]

Big Dog and Grem...............here's some thoughts.

My civilian 09 R1200RT is a lot lighter than the 07 work bike, but only a little lighter than the 13 work bike. The 13 work bike is the DOHC model. I don't like the new indicator switches, I'm a BMW separated switch fan. Just personal preference.

The 13 is the one we have on loan from the Popo college pending the replacement for the bonfire bike. The 07 is the sister ship to the bonfire bike. It now has 144000 km on it, and it's getting tired.

My 09 has a stereo and CD player, ESA, cruise control, and fat arse bags. It only has one battery. I think the gearbox is taller, at least in first, as Grem has pointed out. The authority bags are top opening for a quick get away from donut sales.

My electronics are different too. The work bikes have a digital speedo readout which we calibrate in the middle of the main display. We don't look at the factory analogue speedo much. It's pish.

The work bikes have disco lights, to match my disco ball(s). They're red and blue. (The lights, not my balls). Somewhere down in the electronics there is a suffering cat being tortured. Allegedly it's a siren, but I'm not convinced. We can turn the torture on and off with a switch with a klaxon graphic on it. Go figure. I think it should be a cat graphic.

More people pull out in front of my private bike. Fact. Maybe it's because the work bikes look like.......well.......Popo bikes. People still pull out in front of the work bikes, but less so. Followed closely by application of the disco lights..................

The Hondas will be interesting, but to be fair, I like the Bimmers. That said, any bike the Bwana provides with a full tank and a fuel card will do me just fine. It's not all about the bike, but rather the work we do which the bike is a tool for. I'd ride anything, if it was provided.

Well, almost anything.

[rastuscat]

Those 10 year old design Honda's would be a lot cheaper to purchase than the new BMW RT or Yamaha's new FJR 1300
What's worse the Honda won't break down and cost very little to keep on the road, The Honda ST1100 that the Police last bought for APEC or CHOGEM? costed very little to keep on the road.
No more waiting for BMW parts with bikes of the road.
Rusticat it's not the end of the World least the Beancounters could of got You Guys VFR800's like Japan use , They would be to Fast.
Bugger I am a BMW fan/owner.

I've only ridden an ST1300 once. Just prior to buying my R1200RT. That says something, I guess.

I didn't like the high pitched engine tone, but I'm just a horizontally opposed old bugger.

[Big Dog]

Big Dog and Grem...............here's some thoughts.

My civilian 09 R1200RT is a lot lighter than the 07 work bike, but only a little lighter than the 13 work bike. The 13 work bike is the DOHC model. I don't like the new indicator switches, I'm a BMW separated switch fan. Just personal preference.

The 13 is the one we have on loan from the Popo college pending the replacement for the bonfire bike. The 07 is the sister ship to the bonfire bike. It now has 144000 km on it, and it's getting tired.

My 09 has a stereo and CD player, ESA, cruise control, and fat arse bags. It only has one battery. I think the gearbox is taller, at least in first, as Grem has pointed out. The authority bags are top opening for a quick get away from donut sales.

My electronics are different too. The work bikes have a digital speedo readout which we calibrate in the middle of the main display. We don't look at the factory analogue speedo much. It's pish.

The work bikes have disco lights, to match my disco ball(s). They're red and blue. (The lights, not my balls). Somewhere down in the electronics there is a suffering cat being tortured. Allegedly it's a siren, but I'm not convinced. We can turn the torture on and off with a switch with a klaxon graphic on it. Go figure. I think it should be a cat graphic.

More people pull out in front of my private bike. Fact. Maybe it's because the work bikes look like.......well.......Popo bikes. People still pull out in front of the work bikes, but less so. Followed closely by application of the disco lights..................

The Hondas will be interesting, but to be fair, I like the Bimmers. That said, any bike the Bwana provides with a full tank and a fuel card will do me just fine. It's not all about the bike, but rather the work we do which the bike is a tool for. I'd ride anything, if it was provided.

Well, almost anything.

True that. "Anyting you wan" is the term comes to mind when someone says here is the fuel card go for a ride.

People often mistake me for police as it is. So a police bike would be ironic.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[AllanB]

I didn't like the high pitched engine tone.



Put a rowdy aftermarket can on it :2thumbsup

[BMWGSER]

Just a reply on RT 1200 gearing. Differences are mainly in the final drive ratio.


RT /ST. 2.6 to 1
RT-P 2.75to 1
Pre 08 GS/ADV 2.82 to 1
Post 08 GS/ADV2.91to 1
Most ADVentures that came to NZ had the Enduro option lower first Gear.

I have a 2.82 to 1 final drive for sale if any one wants to make there RT orST go a little harder.

[Moise]

It's an interesting decision. Not sure I'd enjoy riding a fully loaded ST1300 around town.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It is due to the BMW's catching fire ............. :lol:


So if you get a Honda do I get a discount if you catch me speeding. You know, Honda thing and all that.

nah mate, its the OTHER Honda thing that'll get you off. If you catch my drift. Nods as good as a wink eh?

[Gremlin]

I certainly get a few more looks with the extra lights attached for part of the year.

I was filling the bike in a servo earlier this year and I think coupled with the fluoro helmet, a women is constantly looking at me, and finally asks if I'm a cop or something. No-one knows they're orange because they're not used outside of events (well, plus I'd probably get into big trouble if I tried using them whenever I felt like it)...

The gear the police/ambo bikes use is freaken expensive, the lighting controller itself is over $400... bugger that. My first test with some lights didn't work, they were good in low light but barely noticeable in daylight. These 4 (2 per side) were about $100 (excluding custom brackets) and I'm definitely satisfied with the result... Even better, no controller required, so I set them up with an existing loom for other lights for a simple on/off and they automatically cycle through patterns.

[rastuscat]

I certainly get a few more looks with the extra lights attached for part of the year.

I was filling the bike in a servo earlier this year and I think coupled with the fluoro helmet, a women is constantly looking at me, and finally asks if I'm a cop or something. No-one knows they're orange because they're not used outside of events (well, plus I'd probably get into big trouble if I tried using them whenever I felt like it)...

The gear the police/ambo bikes use is freaken expensive, the lighting controller itself is over $400... bugger that. My first test with some lights didn't work, they were good in low light but barely noticeable in daylight. These 4 (2 per side) were about $100 (excluding custom brackets) and I'm definitely satisfied with the result... Even better, no controller required, so I set them up with an existing loom for other lights for a simple on/off and they automatically cycle through patterns.

We need to talk. I want some of those lights for my private bike. I want to avoid a Canbus crisis too.

[GrayWolf]

I've only ridden an ST1300 once. Just prior to buying my R1200RT. That says something, I guess.

I didn't like the high pitched engine tone, but I'm just a horizontally opposed old bugger.


Hell, you'll be able to get from Donut provider, to donut provider, without the coffee getting cold between them. :killingme

However, I take it your Bwana is aware of the issue they had with the ST1300's in the UK Popo service?

Quote:
Evidence indicates the ST1300 can exhibit a weave instability mode at high speed — known in the case of the ST1300 as Pan Weave.

In April 2007, subsequent to the death of a police motorcyclist riding a single seat ST1300, the emergency service version of the ST1300, a British coroner announced he would warn all Chief Constables in England and Wales of the "serious threat" to riders' lives posed by the ST1300 and the "catastrophic result" of the high speed weave.[13] Later safety checks resulted in one examiner sustaining several broken bones in a similar incident. UK police forces subsequently withdrew the ST1300 from police service;[14] Freewheelers EVS and London Ambulance Service continue to operate the ST1300.[15][16]

RiDE Magazine reported in October 2007 that a team replicated weave instability mode with a civilian Honda ST1300 — reproducing the instability at a speed of 110 miles per hour (180 km/h) under certain loading conditions. The rider noticed a rear wheel maximum yaw of 11 degrees per second, described as "a consistent and alarming sideways movement." The editors named the behavior "Pan weave". The intent of the testing was not to determine the cause of the weave, but to confirm its existence. Also, the article reported that 43% of surveyed ST1300 owners had experienced the weave.[17]

So the Pan, may rival the HD 'death weave'......:gob::gob:

That being said though Rastus, a couple of the guys at work (work's bike club) have later model ST1300's... and believe me those ST's can really honk along when used in anger.

[rastuscat]

Hell, you'll be able to get from Donut provider, to donut provider, without the coffee getting cold between them. :killingme

However, I take it your Bwana is aware of the issue they had with the ST1300's in the UK Popo service?

Quote:
Evidence indicates the ST1300 can exhibit a weave instability mode at high speed — known in the case of the ST1300 as Pan Weave.

In April 2007, subsequent to the death of a police motorcyclist riding a single seat ST1300, the emergency service version of the ST1300, a British coroner announced he would warn all Chief Constables in England and Wales of the "serious threat" to riders' lives posed by the ST1300 and the "catastrophic result" of the high speed weave.[13] Later safety checks resulted in one examiner sustaining several broken bones in a similar incident. UK police forces subsequently withdrew the ST1300 from police service;[14] Freewheelers EVS and London Ambulance Service continue to operate the ST1300.[15][16]

RiDE Magazine reported in October 2007 that a team replicated weave instability mode with a civilian Honda ST1300 — reproducing the instability at a speed of 110 miles per hour (180 km/h) under certain loading conditions. The rider noticed a rear wheel maximum yaw of 11 degrees per second, described as "a consistent and alarming sideways movement." The editors named the behavior "Pan weave". The intent of the testing was not to determine the cause of the weave, but to confirm its existence. Also, the article reported that 43% of surveyed ST1300 owners had experienced the weave.[17]

So the Pan, may rival the HD 'death weave'......:gob::gob:

That being said though Rastus, a couple of the guys at work (work's bike club) have later model ST1300's... and believe me those ST's can really honk along when used in anger.

Honda reckon they've fixed the weaving.

Exactly who is going to weave the baskets now is unclear.

Our model will be an ST1300PA

They're back buying them in the UK too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

One of the early pleece moorsickles was withdrawn from service here too: CBX750 or CB650 SOHC?

basically putting dirty big fairings on them and loading them up to the max and they wonder why they're unstable.

[Gremlin]

One of the early pleece moorsickles was withdrawn from service here too: CBX750 or CB650 SOHC?

basically putting dirty big fairings on them and loading them up to the max and they wonder why they're unstable.
Turning bikes into disco ones isn't an old problem. Aftermarket companies geared up the Concours14 in the USA and sold them as police bikes. Several departments received bikes, then the issues came out. Bikes master fuse wasn't handling all the extra accessories, the link between the two batteries caused problems and well... turned into a shit storm with the bikes recalled. However, it does mean that if you have a Concours14 (I did muse over one) you can get the police style crash bars on the front ;) (Accessory mounting heaven).

[willytheekid]

...I didn't like the high pitched engine tone.

:gob:

...the trick is to balance it with a nice free flow pipe ;)

Please note how the sexy V4 exhaust sound, mixed with the whine of the cam gears = pure heaven! to the ears :drool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImWUde4p0U&list=PL3eJOJP886BzUN6t11J8mMhAker0EwkAB&index=10

hay!...Ive got a cordless drill!:eek:...will happily sort the muffler for ya Ras :D



...your gonna fall for that V4, just wait ;)

[Gremlin]

...your gonna fall for that V4, just wait ;)
I seriously can't imagine an ST1300 sounding like that :wacko:

However, I can imagine the whine, because I've been in conference comms with 2 other bikes, one an ST1300, and the whole time there was that high pitched whine.

[willytheekid]

I seriously can't imagine an ST1300 sounding like that :wacko:

However, I can imagine the whine, because I've been in conference comms with 2 other bikes, one an ST1300, and the whole time there was that high pitched whine.

yeah...ripped off sound wise it seems :oi-grr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CajergOCyQs
:weep:...and I was so looking forward to "moding" Rastuscats muffler's as a surprise prezzy

That whinging sound, I just noticed...there a belt drive! :crazy:...hence the different tone...yuck!



BRING BACK GEAR DRIVEN CAMS!! :2thumbsup

[GrayWolf]

I seriously can't imagine an ST1300 sounding like that :wacko:

However, I can imagine the whine, because I've been in conference comms with 2 other bikes, one an ST1300, and the whole time there was that high pitched whine.

it's nothing new, the old Yam XJ's had a 'turbine' like whistle.... actually it was quite 'pleasing' in a funny sorta way. :wacko:

[Big Dog]

I like big bikes and I cannot lie...


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.