NZ national motorcycle road racers' association?

[RobGassit]

In light of both recent and historic events relating to how,when and where the National NZSBK, GP and TT Championships are conducted, is it time for the National Level Riders and Team Owners to form an association to protect their collaberative interests?

This could be as simple as a Moderated FaceBook page or a full Association Level Group which would, as a collective, negotiate with MNZ on matters relating to the National Championship.
An example would be the Grand Prix Drivers Association set up by Formula 1 drivers to negotiate matters of safety with the F1 owner, (Bernie Ecclestone).

As separate voices, there appears to be no one listening, but as a collective, our interests could not be routinely ignored.
If racers and team owners are financing and providing all the entertainment, why are they not in a stronger position to negotiate terms and conditions.

MNZ have recently released a survey seeking feedback for their consideration. A good start. But perhaps if the Racers had an association, we would not have to rely on MNZ internal systems to further our own concerns.

National Level Racers and Team Owners,,,, Your thoughts?

[budda]

In light of both recent and historic events relating to how,when and where the National NZSBK, GP and TT Championships are conducted, is it time for the National Level Riders and Team Owners to form an association to protect their collaberative interests?

This could be as simple as a Moderated FaceBook page or a full Association Level Group which would, as a collective, negotiate with MNZ on matters relating to the National Championship.
An example would be the Grand Prix Drivers Association set up by Formula 1 drivers to negotiate matters of safety with the F1 owner, (Bernie Ecclestone).

As separate voices, there appears to be no one listening, but as a collective, our interests could not be routinely ignored.
If racers and team owners are financing and providing all the entertainment, why are they not in a stronger position to negotiate terms and conditions.

MNZ have recently released a survey seeking feedback for their consideration. A good start. But perhaps if the Racers had an association, we would not have to rely on MNZ internal systems to further our own concerns.

National Level Racers and Team Owners,,,, Your thoughts?

Definition of "National level riders " ????????????????? Ditto "Team Owners"???????????????

Worth remembering, you all already HAVE an Association - its called MNZ: just need to get involved, eh ?

[scott411]

along with budda's thoughts, the riders (liceince holders) elect the board (who appoint the commisioners) most dont bother to vote,

what do you think this new entity's roles would be? and how different from the riders rep on the day of the meeting?

[scott411]

to put something in perspective, 5 of the 6 team managers had a phone conference before and after the MX series with the Comissioner, and we all got together to put in some rule changes, you dont need a organisation if the commissioner is willing to listen,

[Mental Trousers]

MNZ members got an email from the new Road Race Commissioner today for a survey about the what we would like to see for the upcoming NZSBK series. This is a very good start for the new Commissioner, asking the members for feedback and it's something that I'd like to see continue. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/167590-Time-to-have-your-say-boys-and-girls

As for what RobGassit is talking about, I believe an analogy would be a workers Union. The current and previous Commissioners have been getting things going in the right direction so I would rather wait and see how things go. Change takes time and there's been plenty of changes in MNZ recently, hopefully with more to come.

[Drew]

Only problem with the poll on MNZ website. You don't have to be a license holder to vote.

[Robert Taylor]

In light of both recent and historic events relating to how,when and where the National NZSBK, GP and TT Championships are conducted, is it time for the National Level Riders and Team Owners to form an association to protect their collaberative interests?

This could be as simple as a Moderated FaceBook page or a full Association Level Group which would, as a collective, negotiate with MNZ on matters relating to the National Championship.
An example would be the Grand Prix Drivers Association set up by Formula 1 drivers to negotiate matters of safety with the F1 owner, (Bernie Ecclestone).

As separate voices, there appears to be no one listening, but as a collective, our interests could not be routinely ignored.
If racers and team owners are financing and providing all the entertainment, why are they not in a stronger position to negotiate terms and conditions.

MNZ have recently released a survey seeking feedback for their consideration. A good start. But perhaps if the Racers had an association, we would not have to rely on MNZ internal systems to further our own concerns.

National Level Racers and Team Owners,,,, Your thoughts?


By definition then as one of the very biggest bill payers Suzuki NZ should have a major say in what goes on.

[RobGassit]

By definition then as one of the very biggest bill payers Suzuki NZ should have a major say in what goes on.

If they qualified for membership, They would get one vote, as per all members.

[nodrog]

Only problem with the poll on MNZ website. You don't have to be a license holder to vote.

and you can vote multiple times from multiple devices.

[sidecar bob]

By definition then as one of the very biggest bill payers Suzuki NZ should have a major say in what goes on.

So the more you pay the more say you get?? Interesting concept. Does it have to be publicly flaunted obvious money, or does anonomys support also get you a bigger slice of the pie?

[Billy]

So the more you pay the more say you get?? Interesting concept. Does it have to be publicly flaunted obvious money, or does anonomys support also get you a bigger slice of the pie?

Thank fuck somebody else answered that and very politely to I thought

[Robert Taylor]

To not put too fine a point on it if Suzuki NZ immediately pulled out ALL of their substanial direct and indirect support the sport would be in a very sorry state. So much, this support gets taken for granted. We should embrace their huge support and if that means they have a bigger say, then so be it.
The number of rounds for the Nationals should also be firmly capped at 4 with no double headers / extra days of racing. This to keep the costs at a sensible level, also for the sponsors ( like SNZ as one big example ) whom I expect their support gets taken for granted when members vote for more racing. ''The cow will only deliver so much milk'' and should'nt be asked for more. ( Americas cup funding springs to mind )
The reality check is ''who is paying for all of this and will they continue to be happy paying?" Its all very well having champagne tastes with a wish to consume more but you have to have the income stream or support to fund it.
Sponsorship money was a few years back flowing freely but given the scare of the recession and in spite of the economy picking up many potential sponsors are a hell of a lot more reticent and frugal about splashing money around. So extra tyres, accomodation , meals , conveyance costs and engine wear from having more racing impacts on end costs quite substanially. Not to mention downtime when employers may need you most and using holiday allocations up while marshalling on cold corners etc. There are limits
Its a matter of keeping things at a realistic and sustainable level.

[Shaun Harris]

I am quite comfortable with the Fact that Suzuki can speak for them self on this issue Robert if they feel the need to tell eveyone how they feel about it

[Kickaha]

The number of rounds for the Nationals should also be firmly capped at 4 with no double headers / extra days of racing. This to keep the costs at a sensible level
I agree with the 4 rounds and although I originally thought it was a crap idea I didn't mind the extra day at Manfield

I am quite comfortable with the Fact that Suzuki can speak for them self on this issue Robert if they feel the need to tell eveyone how they feel about it
He didn't say they couldn't, nor did he say he was speaking for them

[Kickaha]

Only problem with the poll on MNZ website. You don't have to be a license holder to vote.
I don't have a problem with that as there are a lot of other people involved like pit crew and sponsors who attend these events

[Drew]

I don't have a problem with that as there are a lot of other people involved like pit crew and sponsors who attend these eventsSo? Are they racing? They want to spend more/less money, they can discuss it with their rider/s. Why the fuck should their input effect the racing? They're not paying for everyone out there.

[Shaun Harris]

So? Are they racing? They want to spend more/less money, they can discuss it with their rider/s. Why the fuck should their input effect the racing? They're not paying for everyone out there.






Be carefull buddy, you have already got your self kicked off this site once this week

[Drew]

Be carefull buddy, you have already got your self kicked off this site once this weekCareful of what? Have you had your windows washed lately?

[Billy]

To not put too fine a point on it if Suzuki NZ immediately pulled out ALL of their substanial direct and indirect support the sport would be in a very sorry state. So much, this support gets taken for granted. We should embrace their huge support and if that means they have a bigger say, then so be it.
The number of rounds for the Nationals should also be firmly capped at 4 with no double headers / extra days of racing. This to keep the costs at a sensible level, also for the sponsors ( like SNZ as one big example ) whom I expect their support gets taken for granted when members vote for more racing. ''The cow will only deliver so much milk'' and should'nt be asked for more. ( Americas cup funding springs to mind )
The reality check is ''who is paying for all of this and will they continue to be happy paying?" Its all very well having champagne tastes with a wish to consume more but you have to have the income stream or support to fund it.
Sponsorship money was a few years back flowing freely but given the scare of the recession and in spite of the economy picking up many potential sponsors are a hell of a lot more reticent and frugal about splashing money around. So extra tyres, accomodation , meals , conveyance costs and engine wear from having more racing impacts on end costs quite substanially. Not to mention downtime when employers may need you most and using holiday allocations up while marshalling on cold corners etc. There are limits
Its a matter of keeping things at a realistic and sustainable level.

The reality is Robert,The board at MNZ don't see it the way you do either,When I approached them very early on and asked the question,That if Suzuki NZ were to offer $100K to sponsor NZSBK(Not that they were),Was I to tell them no,The answer was an emphatic "YES",Its of note that Suzuki have done just that(Although I don't know the figure involved) with the old Tri Series.

Also re the double headers,They are an effective compromise to extra rounds and I was pleasantly surprised with the response to the Manfeild round,So I guess it comes back to the old chestnut,Your entitled to your opinion,BUT thats ALL it is.

[scracha]

T
Its a matter of keeping things at a realistic and sustainable level.

Can someone phone Robert and tell him his account has been hacked.


Careful of what? Have you had your windows washed lately?
After his head injury he's mibby licked them clean.

[suzuki21]

So? Are they racing? They want to spend more/less money, they can discuss it with their rider/s. Why the fuck should their input effect the racing? They're not paying for everyone out there.

I am pit bitch for a team which has bought many international riders to NZ in the past. These riders aren't really interested in the politics of where they ride so they wont provide input - they just want to ride. Team owners, sponsors and crew pay the bills so they should have a HUGE input on format etc.

[Pumba]

.... Team owners, sponsors and crew pay the bills so they should have a HUGE input on format etc.

And if they want to have that input into MNZ then pay the $70 to join as an associate member and enjoy the "benefit" of having full voting rights without a competition licence

[steveyb]

And if they want to have that input into MNZ then pay the $70 to join as an associate member and enjoy the "benefit" of having full voting rights without a competition licence

Yes, as a former licence holder but no longer MNZ member I think that is a fair enough call in many respects. Won't be taken up by many, but I think that many people in my situation can and should become associate members. I will rectify my own situation soon.

[Drew]

And if they want to have that input into MNZ then pay the $70 to join as an associate member and enjoy the "benefit" of having full voting rights without a competition licence


Yes, as a former licence holder but no longer MNZ member I think that is a fair enough call in many respects. Won't be taken up by many, but I think that many people in my situation can and should become associate members. I will rectify my own situation soon.

Spot on fellas. Steve, Christ knows you don't need to do any more for the sport. But I think anyone voting should be a member.

[Robert Taylor]

The reality is Robert,The board at MNZ don't see it the way you do either,When I approached them very early on and asked the question,That if Suzuki NZ were to offer $100K to sponsor NZSBK(Not that they were),Was I to tell them no,The answer was an emphatic "YES",Its of note that Suzuki have done just that(Although I don't know the figure involved) with the old Tri Series.

Also re the double headers,They are an effective compromise to extra rounds and I was pleasantly surprised with the response to the Manfeild round,So I guess it comes back to the old chestnut,Your entitled to your opinion,BUT thats ALL it is.

Granted, a double header is preferable to an extra round or two.

[jellywrestler]

Spot on fellas. Steve, Christ knows you don't need to do any more for the sport. But I think anyone voting should be a member.

Did you vote Drew?, I don't believe you should have as the New Zealand Sidecar Racing Association generally discusses the nationals format on you behalf so theoretically you should step back and not bend the results of the survey for the Solo riders...


and for the record, I voted too, I voted for the way I see it working best, not for they way I'd prefer to spend my summer watching bikes....

[Robert Taylor]

I am pit bitch for a team which has bought many international riders to NZ in the past. These riders aren't really interested in the politics of where they ride so they wont provide input - they just want to ride. Team owners, sponsors and crew pay the bills so they should have a HUGE input on format etc.

Well said.

[Billy]

I am pit bitch for a team which has bought many international riders to NZ in the past. These riders aren't really interested in the politics of where they ride so they wont provide input - they just want to ride. Team owners, sponsors and crew pay the bills so they should have a HUGE input on format etc.

You can vote,But bear in mind when voting,Its the commissioner that has the final say,Quite honestly,If I had of caved in and gone with the competitors suggestions last year,It would have been far less successful,Problem with these polls is,Those that take part will be wanting to see a WSBK type format with bouncy castles and all sorts of other entertainment,All good stuff,BUT who pays for it all?????,I voted for a continuation of last years series only with a doubleheader at round 1 because in my mind we are heading in the right direction in the area of competitor participation,The more there are,The more competitive it will become therefore leading to a spectacle worth enticing the general public along to have a look,Theres NO point getting them in to watch 7 or 8 bikes running around in each class.

[quickbuck]

You can vote,But bear in mind when voting,Its the commissioner that has the final say,Quite honestly,If I had of caved in and gone with the competitors suggestions last year,It would have been far less successful,Problem with these polls is,Those that take part will be wanting to see a WSBK type format with bouncy castles and all sorts of other entertainment,All good stuff,BUT who pays for it all?????,I voted for a continuation of last years series only with a doubleheader at round 1 because in my mind we are heading in the right direction in the area of competitor participation,The more there are,The more competitive it will become therefore leading to a spectacle worth enticing the general public along to have a look,Theres NO point getting them in to watch 7 or 8 bikes running around in each class.




All fair points Billy. One thing though, I reckon double header at final round is the way to go. That way we can all go to the final round with almost all the championships still to be decided.....

Still, I can see why you would do it for round one.... To get the numbers entered from the get go.





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Billy]

All fair points Billy. One thing though, I reckon double header at final round is the way to go. That way we can all go to the final round with almost all the championships still to be decided.....

Still, I can see why you would do it for round one.... To get the numbers entered from the get go.





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

Yerr,

Thats why it says a continuation of last year,So would be 2 double headers,1 at round 1 which would run through til the monday night,From Friday and the infamous Finale at the Minefeild.

[Tony.OK]

You can vote,But bear in mind when voting,Its the commissioner that has the final say,Quite honestly,If I had of caved in and gone with the competitors suggestions last year,It would have been far less successful,Problem with these polls is,Those that take part will be wanting to see a WSBK type format with bouncy castles and all sorts of other entertainment,All good stuff,BUT who pays for it all????.

If the track owners didn't have the silly contracted "hotdog caravans only" type setups it would be much easier IMHO, what would be wrong with inviting bouncy castle (or whatever) vendors to come along to make some coin for themselves, at first it could be free setup for them, and when or if it works maybe they could be offered space to rent for the event, no cost, but a little time to organise. But I have a feeling the tracks want in on everything that makes money?

[budda]

If the track owners didn't have the silly contracted "hotdog caravans only" type setups it would be much easier IMHO, what would be wrong with inviting bouncy castle (or whatever) vendors to come along to make some coin for themselves, at first it could be free setup for them, and when or if it works maybe they could be offered space to rent for the event, no cost, but a little time to organise. But I have a feeling the tracks want in on everything that makes money?

Cant tar the ALL with the same brush - some are great to deal with. In some cases the stumbling block aint the CAR club ...........

[Tony.OK]

Cant tar the ALL with the same brush - some are great to deal with. In some cases the stumbling block aint the CAR club ...........

Fairy muff, was thinking of Manners when I wrote that.

[Robert Taylor]

You can vote,But bear in mind when voting,Its the commissioner that has the final say,Quite honestly,If I had of caved in and gone with the competitors suggestions last year,It would have been far less successful,Problem with these polls is,Those that take part will be wanting to see a WSBK type format with bouncy castles and all sorts of other entertainment,All good stuff,BUT who pays for it all?????,I voted for a continuation of last years series only with a doubleheader at round 1 because in my mind we are heading in the right direction in the area of competitor participation,The more there are,The more competitive it will become therefore leading to a spectacle worth enticing the general public along to have a look,Theres NO point getting them in to watch 7 or 8 bikes running around in each class.

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

If a lot of roadracers are honest with themselves less will be more. ( Their pockets and others helping to pay their bills )

[nodrog]

Maybe the Nationals should be a one day, all classes in one race, last man standing endurance race.

That would be cheap and exciting.

[Robert Taylor]

To get back on track after pointless trivialisation 4 ROUNDS.

[nodrog]

To get back on track......

Oh the irony.

[RobGassit]

Typical KB. You are all discussing the National Rounds Poll on the wrong phucken thread!

[quickbuck]

Typical KB. You are all discussing the National Rounds Poll on the wrong phucken thread!

Yup... And that thread is raring on about Test days and rules regarding bikes and chairs on the track at the same time.......

I wonder if we go to the Track Day thread we will find anything about what you started here Rob.....
Ah well.....

Now where were we??

[jellywrestler]

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

[RobGassit]

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

Actually Jelly, that was funny. Well done..

[jellywrestler]

Actually Jelly, that was funny. Well done..

fuck, now you've done that i can't delete it...

[Madness]

Maybe the Nationals should be a one day, all classes in one race, last man standing endurance race.

That would be cheap and exciting.

I'd actually pay to see that. Money.

[ellipsis]

To get back on track ....

...at Ruapuna, is going to cost clubs twice as much, now that the CAR CLUB has doubled the track hire fee...

[Robert Taylor]

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

CLICK

Thats why Billy I think less rounds so that the fields arent diluted too much by people having to take extra weekends and incur substanial extra cost. Quality, not quantity.

I said quality, not quantity!

[jellywrestler]

you know what they say, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil...

[RobGassit]

It would clearly appear that racers are happy to allow MNZ to make the right decisions using individual rider feedback to the Road Race Commissioner for their consideration. In other words, carry on as usual. Good luck with that then. If you always do, what you have always done, you will always get , what you have always got.
No surprises there then.

[Shaun Harris]

It would clearly appear that racers are happy to allow MNZ to make the right decisions using individual rider feedback to the Road Race Commissioner for their consideration. In other words, carry on as usual. Good luck with that then. If you always do, what you have always done, you will always get , what you have always got.
No surprises there then.








Rob the plan I put to ALL the REGISTERED riders years ago about taking ownership of the future proved that they really do not care and expect others to do all for them

[scott411]

Rob the plan I put to ALL the REGISTERED riders years ago about taking ownership of the future proved that they really do not care and expect others to do all for them

if you have been organising meetings for long enough, you understand that,

the only real way to see if riders are happy or not is if they turn up, if your numbers are going up your doing ok, if they are dopping you need to change stuff, as far as the stats I have seen, the numbers were up last year, that is a good sign that people like the way it was going,

[Shaun Harris]

if you have been organising meetings for long enough, you understand that,

the only real way to see if riders are happy or not is if they turn up, if your numbers are going up your doing ok, if they are dopping you need to change stuff, as far as the stats I have seen, the numbers were up last year, that is a good sign that people like the way it was going,









Numbers did look good last season Scott due to good positive work done in the back ground by a few

[budda]

Numbers did look good last season Scott due to good positive work done in the back ground by a few

Rev/Dr/Mr Chow - would you care to elaborate for the uninformed ?

[Billy]

Rev/Dr/Mr Chow - would you care to elaborate for the uninformed ?

I will,

Seeing as I have the inside info,It was due to input from a large number of experienced competitors and officials AND the commissioner sorting through the information they furnished and picking the bits he thought would work,It was NEVER about one or more people,It was about changing the direction of the series as the format in place was ineffective,Regretfully MOST of those people have moved on or been replaced,Lets hope the new commissioner doesn't fall into the old traps that were put in front of us by the old boys club,His statement too me was that he intended to keep up the momentum,Lets hope he does,I have every faith its his intention.

[The Chow]

Rev/Dr/Mr Chow - would you care to elaborate for the uninformed ? No thanks I'll pass on this thanks Budda. I have other fish to fry :rolleyes:

[budda]

No thanks I'll pass on this thanks Budda. I have other fish to fry :rolleyes:

Sorry Old mate, wasnt trying to suck you into the vortex again - just thought you may have your interesting list of Competitor numbers from the last few years, so we could see the effect of all the bad decisions on entries ........ Enjoy your anonymity, you've earned it:clap:

[budda]

I will,

Seeing as I have the inside info,It was due to input from a large number of experienced competitors and officials AND the commissioner sorting through the information they furnished and picking the bits he thought would work,It was NEVER about one or more people,It was about changing the direction of the series as the format in place was ineffective,Regretfully MOST of those people have moved on or been replaced,Lets hope the new commissioner doesn't fall into the old traps that were put in front of us by the old boys club,His statement too me was that he intended to keep up the momentum,Lets hope he does,I have every faith its his intention.

:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:dodge: