Losing your licence?

[awa355]

So if someone amasses 100 demerit points, Do they get to wait untill the cops come door knocking before handing over their licence?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11284883

Has anyone here lost their licence and whats the process for handing it in?

[AllanB]

Wait. If the fools take 4 years to notify you I'd figure that provided you had not amassed a load of point in between that the courts would tell em to stuff-off.

Income tax is a whole other thing ....... pay it.

[Gremlin]

Didn't have the cops for mine, contractor for NZTA. Tried door knocking several times, but I was always out. I knew the suspension was coming so was working long days to get as much done. After several visits the person finally took my number when offered, arranged a date, then still tried to visit in between on the weekend... was slightly annoyed but then I guess they don't usually get the honest types. I was still out tho :laugh:

Anyway, I can't remember exactly, but it would have been a matter of weeks after payment of the fine to getting the visits.

I did get the 50dm warning letter, that was a surprise, as I only thought I had one of the two fines. If for some reason your details aren't up to date, then you may not get the letter, however, you can ring driver licencing any time, and you should know you're picking up fines and demerits.

[hayd3n]

i had 90 for 2 years
and never received a 50 letter
thankfully the expired :):bleh::bleh:

[STJim]

Didn't have the cops for mine, contractor for NZTA. Tried door knocking several times, but I was always out. I knew the suspension was coming so was working long days to get as much done. After several visits the person finally took my number when offered, arranged a date, then still tried to visit in between on the weekend... was slightly annoyed but then I guess they don't usually get the honest types. I was still out tho :laugh:

Anyway, I can't remember exactly, but it would have been a matter of weeks after payment of the fine to getting the visits.

I did get the 50dm warning letter, that was a surprise, as I only thought I had one of the two fines. If for some reason your details aren't up to date, then you may not get the letter, however, you can ring driver licencing any time, and you should know you're picking up fines and demerits.

Gremlin has described the process correctly. I have never had the experience of losing mine however we deal with and advise people who have on a regular basis.
I am happy to out line the process for obtaining a work licence and the costs if anyone needs that information. :cry:

[rastuscat]

Just a thought.

Don't do things that carry demerits.

Simple things almost always the best.

Prevention First.

[awa355]

I understand that a work licence is fairly hard to get. No, I'm not losing my licence. Last ticket was back in 1972. 6 mph over the limit ( 45mph ) for carrying a pillion. Cost me $12.00.

The article above seem ludicrous in todays digital age. I would have thought upon reaching 100dm that an automated letter would be sent giving a time frame to hand in your licence.

Still, if I did do my licence, I'd make damn sure they would have to chase me up.

[Gremlin]

Just a thought.

Don't do things that carry demerits.
Novel idea... my moment of clarity was standing in front of a judge pleading for a work licence. Light bulb moment... ahhh, if I stay within the law, I won't get tickets! ;)


I understand that a work licence is fairly hard to get. No, I'm not losing my licence. Last ticket was back in 1972. 6 mph over the limit ( 45mph ) for carrying a pillion. Cost me $12.00.
I lost mine in 2008 for excess demerits. Pretty sure there is a thread here about getting one, although the process could have changed in the last 6 years. I know you get a red licence now, while I didn't. I'm actually trying to think, pretty sure it was a paper licence.

I did all the work for it myself, all the required paperwork and came out around $400, which was purely court fees and licence fees. If you're uncertain, then go the lawyer route but obviously you'll have their fees. Apparently I got one of the most lenient work licences, able to travel 9am to midnight within the bounds of greater Auckland, 6 days a week and on 2 specific Sundays for 10 weeks (3 months less the 2 weeks between loss and court date) and had to be one set vehicle. Every trip (even a couple of km) was logged, all the paperwork had to be carried at all times. Never got stopped though so don't know what kind of process they would have run through. Usually you'll get a set route to and from work, set time bracket in the morning and evening for that commute etc.

I do remember the courts saying the judges don't like too many work licence applications at one time, so they spread them out, and they aren't done every day either...

[Ender EnZed]

You still lose it for the same amount of time regardless of when you hand it in/have it taken off you. Better to do it on your own terms than on the side of the road when a cop notices you haven't.

[BoristheBiter]

The article above seem ludicrous in todays digital age. I would have thought upon reaching 100dm that an automated letter would be sent giving a time frame to hand in your licence.


rastus might be able to clarify this but it has something to do with the suspension of the licence and forbidden to drive rules.

[SMOKEU]

How the fuck does someone go about getting enough demerits to have their license suspended?

[Mike.Gayner]

Just a thought.

Don't do things that carry demerits.

Simple things almost always the best.

Prevention First.

Or just don't get caught.

[rastuscat]

rastus might be able to clarify this but it has something to do with the suspension of the licence and forbidden to drive rules.

Related but distinct. You get forbidden if you don't hold a licence. Or maybe you're on a bike, and you have a car licence only, then you get forbidden from riding a Class 6 until you get a Class 6.

A forbidden driver gets dealt with similar to a suspended driver, but via a different charge.

Driving While Forbidden gets a vehicle impounded for 28 days, as does Driving While Suspended.
Difference is the potential penalty. Generally Forbidden just carries a fine. It can carry disqualification, but only if you really cheese the JP off. Suspended is treated far more seriously, basically because "The Man" (Clint Eastwood, a.k.a. the System) has told you not to drive, and you've raised a finger and driven anyway. Penalty has 6 months minimum disqualification of all licences held.

Post your queries on this, when I've got time I'll post replies.


How the fuck does someone go about getting enough demerits to have their license suspended?

Here's the link to the list of dumb shit that carries demerits.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/offences-penalties/demerit.html

Cool, learned to multi quote. Slow learner I am, Yoda.

[rastuscat]

Or just don't get caught.

+1

Almost the same thing, but with more derring do. :2thumbsup

[Gremlin]

How the fuck does someone go about getting enough demerits to have their license suspended?
In about 20 months I picked up passing on yellows (35), careless (35) and then speeding (50)... :facepalm: Worst part was, the speeding one was in a really obvious place (Marton region, SH1 long straights), not riding my bike and I didn't realise I was going that quick... Cop was the only one coming towards me, and then I looked at my speed right before he radar'd me ...


Penalty has 6 months minimum disqualification of all licences held.
Technically, you only have one licence and multiple classes... people get confused so I thought I'd correct. When your licence is suspended/taken/whatever, it affects every class, as there is only one licence.

[Banditbandit]

How the fuck does someone go about getting enough demerits to have their license suspended?

Two tickets will do it. 135 - 140klicks is worth 55 demerit points - two of those and you will lose your licence .. (I believe I had 60 demerit points when I got caught at 136 klicks .. that took me over the limit ..

[Gremlin]

Two tickets will do it. 135 - 140klicks is worth 55 demerit points - two of those and you will lose your licence .. (I believe I had 60 demerit points when I got caught at 136 klicks .. that took me over the limit ..
I believe the highest amount of dm is 50. 35+ over will earn you that... I got 136 in a 100... at least it wasn't 141 I guess...

[STJim]

Novel idea... my moment of clarity was standing in front of a judge pleading for a work licence. Light bulb moment... ahhh, if I stay within the law, I won't get tickets! ;)


I lost mine in 2008 for excess demerits. Pretty sure there is a thread here about getting one, although the process could have changed in the last 6 years. I know you get a red licence now, while I didn't. I'm actually trying to think, pretty sure it was a paper licence.

I did all the work for it myself, all the required paperwork and came out around $400, which was purely court fees and licence fees. If you're uncertain, then go the lawyer route but obviously you'll have their fees. Apparently I got one of the most lenient work licences, able to travel 9am to midnight within the bounds of greater Auckland, 6 days a week and on 2 specific Sundays for 10 weeks (3 months less the 2 weeks between loss and court date) and had to be one set vehicle. Every trip (even a couple of km) was logged, all the paperwork had to be carried at all times. Never got stopped though so don't know what kind of process they would have run through. Usually you'll get a set route to and from work, set time bracket in the morning and evening for that commute etc.

I do remember the courts saying the judges don't like too many work licence applications at one time, so they spread them out, and they aren't done every day either...

We charge a $1,000.00 for a work licence plus Court filing fees etc. The order is issued by the Court and you then have to apply for the licence. You were lucky to get that wide. In Hamilton when we file we serve the police who usually come back to us promptly if they consider it to be too wide. All over the North Island 24/7 wouldn't go down well.
I have yet to do a limited licence for a motorcycle. I wouldn't think that would be too much of a problem for a GN250 commuting to and from work by a set route. Anything much bigger which looked too much like a toy would be an interesting challenge.

[Gremlin]

We charge a $1,000.00 for a work licence plus Court filing fees etc. The order is issued by the Court and you then have to apply for the licence. You were lucky to get that wide. In Hamilton when we file we serve the police who usually come back to us promptly if they consider it to be too wide. All over the North Island 24/7 wouldn't go down well.
I have yet to do a limited licence for a motorcycle. I wouldn't think that would be too much of a problem for a GN250 commuting to and from work by a set route. Anything much bigger which looked too much like a toy would be an interesting challenge.
Yeah, I meant to add while writing actually. The whole intent is to penalise you for what you've done, but not cause undue hardship on others, ie, employer, family etc.

For my job, being in IT, I travel the city as required, SLAs to service clients, and I marked all the locations on a map, drew a boundary around it. Was something like Orewa ish to Ardmore, Titirangi to Maraetai... Specified vehicle was the CB919 Hornet, that actually wasn't any drama (plus I probably held a learners car). Biggest issue was going back and forth with prosecutions to get agreeable terms. Try telling a government employee who seems to work from 0830 to 1630 that yes, I was actually doing 13+ hour days plus on call 24/7... supplied 6 weeks of my calendar as well to prove it...

[jasonu]

Just a thought.

Don't do things that carry demerits.

Simple things almost always the best.

Prevention First.

Fair enough except some demerit offenses are petty at best and the pigs really like to hide behind bushes to catch generally law abiding folks doing them. ChaChing!!!

[Blackbird]

Worst part was, the speeding one was in a really obvious place (Marton region, SH1 long straights), not riding my bike and I didn't realise I was going that quick... Cop was the only one coming towards me, and then I looked at my speed right before he radar'd me ...


Alan, that was the location of my last points speeding offence too, albeit a good few years ago. Towing a trailer with the car at 100 km/hr when the rule was 80k. It was a mufti cop in a maroon Nissan 200SX of all things!

[Big Dog]

We charge a $1,000.00 for a work licence plus Court filing fees etc. The order is issued by the Court and you then have to apply for the licence. You were lucky to get that wide. In Hamilton when we file we serve the police who usually come back to us promptly if they consider it to be too wide. All over the North Island 24/7 wouldn't go down well.
I have yet to do a limited licence for a motorcycle. I wouldn't think that would be too much of a problem for a GN250 commuting to and from work by a set route. Anything much bigger which looked too much like a toy would be an interesting challenge.

It would be a challenge someone would have to take up if I ever went over. I would be unemployed without transport. My only viable transport mode to work is a 1300 and I have to be available to come in for a disaster.
Nearest public transport is a 10 minute drive away.

I wonder if that is why I don't ever travel faster than 1/3 of the available demerits?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[R650R]

Never lost mine but I'd assume the cops or LTSA would send you a letter out as soon as you max out. I'd be handing over the licence asap so your back to new one quick as possible, never know what the future holds.
And COMPLY with the dates precisely. Saw a fella going bananas outside my place, got pulled for some reason and he only had 12hrs left to go on suspension but he still got impounded!

As for work licences well they give those out as freely as real licences it appears.
Muppet at our work got served, trucks running daily from Hastings to Auckland, he was allowed to drive a nominated truck for work and still drive to and from work in his evo6...
It all turned to shit pretty quick for him as he put down the number plate of good truck he was on before, but when ever you misbehave in trucking you always get demoted to the old banger at back of yard so he had to go back and grovel again to get that changed.
And at the time I'd have classed this young driver involved as the highest crash risk in our fleet too. BTW the whole affair had zero impact on adjusting his road behaviour afterwards.

Really the system is a complete joke that you can get a 'work licence'. If they did away with them I'd say a remarkable portion of drivers would up their standards quickly.
All these pleas for work licences must waste a considerable amount of court time also.

[neels]

Seems fair enough to me, whenever they manage to catch up with you if the demerits are still current you get the suspension, if they don't find you in time and they expire you get away with it.

If they finally catch up with you 4 years later and you're stupid enough to keep accumulating enough demerits in that time that the suspension still stands, I wouldn't think there's a lot of justification for having a moan about it.

[Akzle]

All these pleas for work licences must waste a considerable amount of court time also.

youre looking at it from the wrong side.
A half dozen lawyers at 200/hr, a judge on half a mil, miscellaneous jewry betwixt,
the game of court is highly profitable!

[Akzle]

oh. And no one here owns a license.
But if you enjoy it in the ass, i suggest you find a black husband.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Two tickets will do it. 135 - 140klicks is worth 55 demerit points - two of those and you will lose your licence .. (I believe I had 60 demerit points when I got caught at 136 klicks .. that took me over the limit ..

It seems wrong when its just at the top of second gear, dunnit?

:( spoilsports.

I'm a good driver I should be able to go as fast as I like. Plus our roads are just like autobahns.

Speed limits are just suggestions for the weak-willed I reckon.

go as fast as you like. :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

oh. And no one here owns a license.
But if you enjoy it in the ass, i suggest you find a black husband.

I do enjoy it in the arse, so I will take your suggestion. thank you.

[HenryDorsetCase]

youre looking at it from the wrong side.
A half dozen lawyers at 200/hr, a judge on half a mil, miscellaneous jewry betwixt,
the game of court is highly profitable!

$200 an hour? amateurs!

[SMOKEU]

Here's the link to the list of dumb shit that carries demerits.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/offences-penalties/demerit.html

Cool, learned to multi quote. Slow learner I am, Yoda.


Two tickets will do it. 135 - 140klicks is worth 55 demerit points - two of those and you will lose your licence .. (I believe I had 60 demerit points when I got caught at 136 klicks .. that took me over the limit ..


In about 20 months I picked up passing on yellows (35), careless (35) and then speeding (50)... :facepalm: Worst part was, the speeding one was in a really obvious place (Marton region, SH1 long straights), not riding my bike and I didn't realise I was going that quick... Cop was the only one coming towards me, and then I looked at my speed right before he radar'd me ...


Technically, you only have one licence and multiple classes... people get confused so I thought I'd correct. When your licence is suspended/taken/whatever, it affects every class, as there is only one licence.

That's out of it! Back when I had a GTiR with a 108dB exhaust (just a little resonator, and straight pipe the rest of the way) I'd do double the speed limit in front of cops and get it sideways, and the worst I'd get was a minor telling off or the one time that I got an infringement notice for a noisy exhaust. I don't know how some people manage to keep getting ticketed. Maybe it's just luck.

[Akzle]

$200 an hour? amateurs!

legal aid ticket dude.

[Akzle]

I don't know how some people manage to keep getting ticketed. Maybe it's just luck.

you're pasty white. Iffen you were black, thats a 4 year sentence.

(yes, the nz jewdiciary is that racist)

[rastuscat]

Seems fair enough to me, whenever they manage to catch up with you if the demerits are still current you get the suspension, if they don't find you in time and they expire you get away with it.

Nope. Once a suspension is triggered it remains alive until it is served. Time doesn't make a difference.

Still, thanks for posting that. It'll make for some interesting roadside discussions when people quote your post as law.

[SMOKEU]

you're pasty white. Iffen you were black, thats a 4 year sentence.

(yes, the nz jewdiciary is that racist)

Lucky I'm white then!

You'd also be surprised at how much shit Asians get away with, a mate of mine would pretend he can't speak English and show cops his Thai license, then next time he'd show them his California license, then next time the international license etc. Worked every time.

[R650R]

youre looking at it from the wrong side.
A half dozen lawyers at 200/hr, a judge on half a mil, miscellaneous jewry betwixt,
the game of court is highly profitable!

I don't disagree with that, but what I meant is that without these cases tying up the courts time, it could be used more effectively.
Like getting through the other cases faster, a benefit to society as a whole etc.... nah screw it your right, they'd still find a new way to piss about and milk the system/govts money....

[R650R]

Nope. Once a suspension is triggered it remains alive until it is served. Time doesn't make a difference.

Still, thanks for posting that. It'll make for some interesting roadside discussions when people quote your post as law.

LOL, meant to say that also, he needs to read this thread... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/167403-Statute-of-limitations-regarding-3-month-license-suspension

[Gremlin]

BTW the whole affair had zero impact on adjusting his road behaviour afterwards.

Really the system is a complete joke that you can get a 'work licence'. If they did away with them I'd say a remarkable portion of drivers would up their standards quickly.
All these pleas for work licences must waste a considerable amount of court time also.
Opposite for me... realised how much I needed it, and I'm still on 0 demerits since 08 (reaches to touch wood coz shit, I don't want to jinx that!)


Nope. Once a suspension is triggered it remains alive until it is served. Time doesn't make a difference.

Still, thanks for posting that. It'll make for some interesting roadside discussions when people quote your post as law.
I was curious about that. That was my understanding, but in the article it made mention about no demerits for two years (or four) and unless you're constantly racking up more, it disappears...

Article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11284883


The process

*NZTA sends a letter to driver warning them they have reached 50 demerit points.
*Suspension notice served once the driver has reached 100 demerit points.
*Suspension cannot be served once the most active demerit points are more than two years old. If the driver continues to offend before being served with a suspension notice and the total number of active demerit points does not drop below 100 then the driver will remain wanted for a suspension.

[Akzle]

I don't disagree with that, but what I meant is that without these cases tying up the courts time, it could be used more effectively.
Like getting through the other cases faster, a benefit to society as a whole etc.... nah screw it your right, they'd still find a new way to piss about and milk the system/govts money....

benefit society?? The government??
:rofl:

Clearly you dont get how it works...

[AllanB]

T I don't know how some people manage to keep getting ticketed. Maybe it's just luck.

They actually finish their project bikes then ride them ....:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[neels]

Nope. Once a suspension is triggered it remains alive until it is served. Time doesn't make a difference.

Still, thanks for posting that. It'll make for some interesting roadside discussions when people quote your post as law.


I was curious about that. That was my understanding, but in the article it made mention about no demerits for two years (or four) and unless you're constantly racking up more, it disappears...

What he said, I obviously made the mistake of believing what was written by the media on the interwebs. If anyone quotes me feel free to tell them I'm an idiot, and they shouldn't believe anything I post.

[Madness]

What he said, I obviously made the mistake of believing what was written by the media on the interwebs. If anyone quotes me feel free to tell them I'm an idiot, and they shouldn't believe anything I post.

I'm pretty sure I could do a poo that could perform a better job of writing that article. Piss poor journalism and they even quoted that fuckwit Clive Wilson-Lemon as if the article wasn't shit enough to start with.

[R650R]

That Herald article is a bit wishy washy. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't being aware of the demerit scheme part of passing licence exam etc...
Back in sixth form I did legal studies to fill a gap, our teacher was a former clerk of the court and stenographer also I think.
The first thing she taught us was ignorance of the law is never a valid excuse to defeat any charge.

"An Auckland mother-of-two had her driver's licence taken off her for exceeding demerit points 21 months earlier.

The solo mum was out when two police officers arrived on her doorstep at 8pm last October. Worried, she visited her local police station the next morning, where the officer asked for her licence before confiscating it immediately.

The sales representative said she had no idea she had even exceeded 100 demerit points nearly two years earlier and would have appreciated some warning to make arrangements. As Rastus likes to say tickets 1,2 and 3 etc are the warning your going to lose your licence...

She called a friend in a panic who collected her because she could not drive home. She then called a lawyer to help her obtain a work licence as soon as she could.

"It's my fault getting the demerit points, I'm not opposed to that but it's just the way they did it - just like that. You don't get time to even think about it, no prior warning, no nothing."
Sounds just like the last few seconds before impact after doing something wrong on road...

From anecdotal evidence down here it seems most people wanted for license suspension are usually attracting cop attention for other things also. I think it would be exceptionally rare to have had enough serious tickets or a heap of small ones of enough to lose your licence in the timeframe required and not be aware of it. Bit like the people who would fill their car up at our gas station and then discover there was no money left on their eftpos card. "Awww jesus I didn't know I had no money left... Yeah right.

[rastuscat]

It's a cruel system at times.

If it wasn't it'd be wroughted.

I started in 1989 and back then it was very different. If you got 100 points in 12 months you lost your licence for 6 months. Get them in 24 months and it was 3 months of walking.

We used to get the letters to serve before Baycorp got the contract. People tried to avoid service but there was no point. The sooner the 3 months started the sooner it finished.

Speeding tickets were all 35 points back then, 3 of those got you a compulsory walk.

Used to be the points only counted from date of admission of guilt BT paying the fine or conviction in court. People who had 70 points could string a 3rd ticket out long enough to mean their old points evaporated before the new ones were lodged.

It's better now that points are incurred when the fine is paid or you're declared guilty by a court, but their effective date is the offence date. That way there's no benefit in stringing the last one out, it won't help.

It's very complex the way points😇😆 their way on and off licences. It's an NZTA system so Popo's shouldn't be telling people when their points drop off when it's not the Popo who administer them. Call the 0800 number to get details of when your points drop off. Most Popo's aren't experts in demerits.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's a cruel system at times.

If it wasn't it'd be wroughted.

I started in 1989 and back then it was very different. If you got 100 points in 12 months you lost your licence for 6 months. Get them in 24 months and it was 3 months of walking.

We used to get the letters to serve before Baycorp got the contract. People tried to avoid service but there was no point. The sooner the 3 months started the sooner it finished.

Speeding tickets were all 35 points back then, 3 of those got you a compulsory walk.

Used to be the points only counted from date of admission of guilt BT paying the fine or conviction in court. People who had 70 points could string a 3rd ticket out long enough to mean their old points evaporated before the new ones were lodged.

It's better now that points are incurred when the fine is paid or you're declared guilty by a court, but their effective date is the offence date. That way there's no benefit in stringing the last one out, it won't help.

It's very complex the way points their way on and off licences. It's an NZTA system so Popo's shouldn't be telling people when their points drop off when it's not the Popo who administer them. Call the 0800 number to get details of when your points drop off. Most Popo's aren't experts in demerits.

Excellent potted history. SWIM* lost their licence for speeding doing the 3 months because of demerit points a long time ago because of that - I thought it was still the same.

Of course you do realise that the demerit point system is fundamentally flawed? When I amass a lot of Flybuys, I can redeem them for, you know, vouchers and shit. So the purpose of road policing is to collect revenue, right? So what the demerits do is stop your frequent flyers, your gold card holders if you like, from participating in the system and earning more rewards. I mean, what are they thinking?

*OK it was me.

[Gremlin]

Of course you do realise that the demerit point system is fundamentally flawed? When I amass a lot of Flybuys, I can redeem them for, you know, vouchers and shit. So the purpose of road policing is to collect revenue, right? So what the demerits do is stop your frequent flyers, your gold card holders if you like, from participating in the system and earning more rewards. I mean, what are they thinking?
The prize for collecting these points is crap... so crap I've decided I won't bother collecting them again... <_<

[avgas]

I never hit the full 100.
Had 90 for 2 years, then cleared and got 80 for 2 years, then cleared, then 90 for 2 years, then 50......then nothing for like 8 years.

Whenever it got close I used to downgrade me bike/car for a bit.

[rastuscat]

Demerits have been devalued by the gubbermint.

Used to be they were for road safety offences. Stop signs, speed. That sort of thing.

When the Pollies wanted kudos for nudging the Boy Racers 20 points got put on noisy exhaust tickets. Couple of years back they got added to vehicle registration tickets. How many people ever died from noisy or unlicensed vehicles?

Nil points for seatbelts offences. Nil for traffic light offences. Bizarre. I've been writing reports for years on that subject.

Reduce fines and increase demerits.

[Ender EnZed]

I started in 1989 and back then it was very different. If you got 100 points in 12 months you lost your licence for 6 months. Get them in 24 months and it was 3 months of walking.

Speeding tickets were all 35 points back then, 3 of those got you a compulsory walk.


3 tickets in 2 years to lose your licence? That seems harsh.

Some lawyers must have got pretty adept at stringing the third one along.

[awayatc]

twas before speed cameras, and before quotas.

You only got speeding tickets for being a complete egg......

nothing like nowadays.

( 0 tickets for umpteen years pretty standard back then)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Demerits have been devalued by the gubbermint.

Used to be they were for road safety offences. Stop signs, speed. That sort of thing.

When the Pollies wanted kudos for nudging the Boy Racers 20 points got put on noisy exhaust tickets. Couple of years back they got added to vehicle registration tickets. How many people ever died from noisy or unlicensed vehicles?

Nil points for seatbelts offences. Nil for traffic light offences. Bizarre. I've been writing reports for years on that subject.

Reduce fines and increase demerits.

no demerits. no instant fines. Every ticket goes to court. Only three offences: careless, reckless, dangerous use. Let the people who get the big bucks (Judges) decide.

[Scuba_Steve]

no demerits. no instant fines. Every ticket goes to court. Only three offences: careless, reckless, dangerous use. Let the people who get the big bucks (Judges) decide.

Which ironically are the worst drivers by occupation; so someone who can't drive is judging you on your driving :facepalm:

[Big Dog]

no demerits. no instant fines. Every ticket goes to court. Only three offences: careless, reckless, dangerous use. Let the people who get the big bucks (Judges) decide.

Flaw here being the judge does not witness the incident. Next you'll have every driver carrying a lawyer and every cop carrying a judge.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Flaw here being the judge does not witness the incident. Next you'll have every driver carrying a lawyer and every cop carrying a judge.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

No, that would be silly. We have drug courts and environment courts and family courts: we should have traffic courts.

and a judge is never present when a rape or bestiality or tax fraud is committed: they are the people we as a society have empowered to consider two competing arguments, and to decide who is right. There is no conceptual difference between an alleged traffic offence, and tax fraud or murder in that sense. Plus there are checks and balances built into that system which prevent (or at least reduce) the chances of mistake and allow for appeals and whatever. If you accept an infringement notice and do not take the opportunity of having it tested in court, then you have abandoned one of the fundamental principles of our democracy. Its a bad show.

I am as lazy as the next man (actually probably lazier) so I can see the attraction, but its just wrong.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Which ironically are the worst drivers by occupation; so someone who can't drive is judging you on your driving :facepalm:

Have you some statistics to back that assertion up? Given they (Judges) are relatively few in number, and generally well paid and cautious individuals by nature, I suspect that you are full of shit. But prove me wrong.

[rastuscat]

Have you some statistics to back that assertion up? Given they (Judges) are relatively few in number, and generally well paid and cautious individuals by nature, I suspect that you are full of shit. But prove me wrong.

Dude. Stop reacting to Scoober. He's a unique individual who we all treasure for his unique views. But don't take him seriously.

He lives in his own world, free of the responsibilities we regular citizens have. He exempt from all laws, including Newtons laws of motion.

Just let his creative fantasising roll, and accept it for what it is......ramblings of a unique individual.

[Akzle]

Flaw here being the judge does not witness the incident. Next you'll have every driver carrying a lawyer and every cop carrying a judge.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

that might save me a lot of time trying to explain legislation to the popo...

[STJim]

that might save me a lot of time trying to explain legislation to the popo...

At $200 per hour for an amateur???

[HenryDorsetCase]

that might save me a lot of time trying to explain legislation to the popo...

you should, like, get some cards printed, and laminated, and hand them out. Send me one too.

[bluninja]

and a judge is never present when a rape or bestiality or tax fraud is committed:

Interesting that you would group those 3 offences together.....and no judge has ever committed any of those acts?? hmmmmm...you got any statistics to back that up?? :innocent:

[Big Dog]

No, that would be silly. We have drug courts and environment courts and family courts: we should have traffic courts.

and a judge is never present when a rape or bestiality or tax fraud is committed: they are the people we as a society have empowered to consider two competing arguments, and to decide who is right. There is no conceptual difference between an alleged traffic offence, and tax fraud or murder in that sense. ,.

But it is rare to get any form of conviction for these types of crime without other evidence than a single witness.

I am all for a right to contest a ticket. Dead against making all tickets something you have to defend.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Scuba_Steve]

Have you some statistics to back that assertion up? Given they (Judges) are relatively few in number, and generally well paid and cautious individuals by nature, I suspect that you are full of shit. But prove me wrong.

Sorta, I just looked up what I had & turns out it was a study from America insurance companies & also included Lawyers as #1



Dude. Stop reacting to Scoober. He's a unique individual who we all treasure for his unique views. But don't take him seriously.

He lives in his own world, free of the responsibilities we regular citizens have. He exempt from all laws, including Newtons laws of motion.

Just let his creative fantasising roll, and accept it for what it is......ramblings of a unique individual.

Cept I can backup most of what I say with legitimate science, studies, legislation & shit.

I'm a little upset, seems you don't know me too well at all; we'll have to go on more Vodka & Donut dates where you'll learn I'm a very uncreative person but extremely logical & reasoned.
As for "unique"? well isn't everyone... but na there are quite a few others like me just the idiots outrank us so we're not the majority.

[Akzle]

you should, like, get some cards printed, and laminated, and hand them out. Send me one too.

i did for a while. Ironically the cops think handing back a notice is ok when they do it, but if you joe public do, oh dear!

[Akzle]

I am all for a right to contest a ticket. Dead against making all tickets something you have to defend.


Dont defend.
Accept. Conditionally.

[R650R]

Dont defend.
Accept. Conditionally.

add the words "Under duress"

[Akzle]

add the words "Under duress"

i do. And protest. And claim. And jurisdiction.
Best summed up as "tits or gtfo"

[BoristheBiter]

Flaw here being the judge does not witness the incident. Next you'll have every driver carrying a lawyer and every cop carrying a judge.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Sounds like a good idea. think it should be trialed.
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