Big bore air-cooled motors in sidecars?

[Kyler]

I was looking at the entries for Phillips Island and saw several GS1168 motors. At the end of this year, I'm switching to a GS1100. I run an external oil cooler. What else is critical to keeping these motors alive in a sidecar?

[Grumph]

For the benefit of the locals, he's talking GSX.....

Warwick, what broke on battletruck ? C'mon several of you guys have run GSX1100's over the years.

[Kyler]

For the benefit of the locals, he's talking GSX.....

Warwick, what broke on battletruck ? C'mon several of you guys have run GSX1100's over the years.

and post pictures! :niceone:

[nodrog]

You do know philip island is in a different country aye?

[steveyb]

Yeah, he might do, but we all know that our sidecar guys are know-it-alls and know all that there is to know about sidechairs.:lol:

[scrivy]

Yeah, he might do, but we all know that our sidecar guys are know-it-alls and know all that there is to know about sidechairs.:lol:

I'll correct you there Steve. We know it all about everything!! Sidecars?? Wouldn't have a fucken clue......... :rolleyes:

[Kickaha]

Warwick, what broke on battletruck ? C'mon several of you guys have run GSX1100's over the years.
We think it was actually a piston which let go intially and then put a rod out the front, but the guy riding it used to adjust the rev limiter depending on how hard he thought we'd need to rev it :facepalm:

Yeah, he might do, but we all know that our sidecar guys are know-it-alls and know all that there is to know about sidechairs.:lol:
Hey Dr check this :shake:

[Drew]

Are they allowed to be dry sumped in P3? That'd take care of the cooling, no?

[kiwi cowboy]

I'll correct you there Steve. We know it all about everything!! Sidecars?? Wouldn't have a fucken clue......... :rolleyes:

:facepalm:If you haven't a fuckin clue reguarding sidecars then clearly you don't know it all about everything!!.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::la ugh::laugh:

[steveyb]

Hey Dr check this :shake:

Now that's just mean!:laugh:

[Kickaha]

Now that's just mean!:laugh:

You've probably tried to blank it from your memory but I can remember Neil Freeman doing it to you in real life at Pukekohe, must have been about 2002

[Kyler]

:eek5: :wacko: there is definitely no difference in sidecar people on different continents :oi-grr::facepalm: :lol:

How about I ask this way :innocent:

do you run oil coolers and if so what size cooler and hoses?

do you do anything special for airflow around the motor? extra ducts?

does anyone track cylinder head temp or oil temp? if so, how hot does it get?

btw, I trashed my first motor when I forgot to test the rev limiter after installing it ... until I missed a shift :facepalm:

[steveyb]

You've probably tried to blank it from your memory but I can remember Neil Freeman doing it to you in real life at Pukekohe, must have been about 2002

You're a sick, sick man for having that in your memory banks......

[Kickaha]

You're a sick, sick man for having that in your memory banks......

It is very hard to block out, drugs and alcohol help though

[sidecar bob]

They run way too hot even in a solo, interestingly with virtually no ill effects whatsoever really.
However, run the biggest oil cooler you can fit on it. When installing an oil cooler to an 1100 engine you must run an 1150 oil filter cover, otherwise the oil wont flow as pressure will be equal in both sides of the cooler.
Run GS750 oil pump gears, the different ratio runs the oil pump faster with obvious benifits.
Also, methanol is a good idea to keep engine temp down if it is behind a big fairing.
You will never need to dry sump the engine as the roller bearing bottom end is oblivious to a bit of oil surge.
In short, they are a bloody great sidecar engine!!
If you want any bits, get in touch with these guys, you wont even lose 20% on your dollar when you deal with them.
http://www.dynoman.net/order.html

[Kyler]

They run way too hot even in a solo, interestingly with virtually no ill effects whatsoever really.
However, run the biggest oil cooler you can fit on it. When installing an oil cooler to an 1100 engine you must run an 1150 oil filter cover, otherwise the oil wont flow as pressure will be equal in both sides of the cooler.
Run GS750 oil pump gears, the different ratio runs the oil pump faster with obvious benefits.
Also, methanol is a good idea to keep engine temp down if it is behind a big fairing.
You will never need to dry sump the engine as the roller bearing bottom end is oblivious to a bit of oil surge.
In short, they are a bloody great sidecar engine!!
If you want any bits, get in touch with these guys, you wont even lose 20% on your dollar when you deal with them.
http://www.dynoman.net/order.html

are the bearings on the 80-83 GSX1100 motors roller bearing type? I thought that was the pre-1980 motors.

I have a custom made filter cover that routes 100% of the oil out the motor, through an automotive oil filter, through the cooler, then returning to the motor. I got rid of the internal oil filter entirely. I'm planning on using the same cover on the GSX1100 motor.

http://www.kyler.net/Kens-Photos/Sidecar-Racing/Oil-Cooler-Mod/i-5cwcPSQ/0/L/P6032044-L.jpg

http://www.kyler.net/Kens-Photos/Sidecar-Racing/Oil-Cooler-Mod/i-NBszkVn/0/L/P6032049-L.jpg

good feedback. thanks!

[Grumph]

are the bearings on the 80-83 GSX1100 motors roller bearing type? I thought that was the pre-1980 motors.

I have a custom made filter cover that routes 100% of the oil out the motor, through an automotive oil filter, through the cooler, then returning to the motor. I got rid of the internal oil filter entirely. I'm planning on using the same cover on the GSX1100 motor.



good feedback. thanks!

All the 16V air cooled 1100/1150 motors are roller bearing. Use the 1150 oil filter and cover as they're sized appropriately for the lower oil pressures in the roller motors.
The 750 oil pump gears will give you better pumping capacity to serve a bigger cooler.
i've never worked out whether your rules allow Methanol...if they do, use it.

[Kyler]

All the 16V air cooled 1100/1150 motors are roller bearing. Use the 1150 oil filter and cover as they're sized appropriately for the lower oil pressures in the roller motors.
The 750 oil pump gears will give you better pumping capacity to serve a bigger cooler.
i've never worked out whether your rules allow Methanol...if they do, use it.

No methanol - Gasoline only; maximum 115 octane [using formula (R+M)/2].

and the way my pipes are routed, I'd have to pull #3 & #4 exhaust pipe to get the cover off. But I bet I can find a low pressure external filter. If not, won't be the first custom part I've made!

thanks!

[sidecar bob]

To be perfectly honest your oil cooler cover device looks like a lot of angst for very little or no benifit, unless of course, if the cover wont come off with the engine in the chassis.
Get the last of the black 1150 engines, use the factory welded crank out of it with the 20mm gudeon pins, use the factory 1150 heavy duty clutch basket.
Have the 1150 sleeves fitted to the 1075 barrells, bore them to 1229, use the 2mm bigger inlet valves from the 1150, port it & fit a pair of stage 2 yoshi cams or just the inlet cam & you will have a reliable weapon on a very small budget.
And anything Grumph says should be taken more notice of than anything I say.

[Grumph]

To be perfectly honest your oil cooler cover device looks like a lot of angst for very little or no benifit, unless of course, if the cover wont come off with the engine in the chassis.
Get the last of the black 1150 engines, use the factory welded crank out of it with the 20mm gudeon pins, use the factory 1150 heavy duty clutch basket.
Have the 1150 sleeves fitted to the 1075 barrells, bore them to 1229, use the 2mm bigger inlet valves from the 1150, port it & fit a pair of stage 2 yoshi cams or just the inlet cam & you will have a reliable weapon on a very small budget.
And anything Grumph says should be taken more notice of than anything I say.

Flattering....all that depends on the eligibilty dates of the period he's racing in of course.

Kyler and i both belong to the US based GS resources site where there are a ton of people who can tell you how to set up an 1100 for drag racing....which is why I aimed him here as there are several on here who have run gsx1100's in chairs over the years and might be asked for advice. Anyone with an internet connection can find out how to get big HP out of them - but making them live in the weird confines of a chair is a bit different.
Anyone modify the sumps ? I see some drag guys cut out the internal crossmember above the sump to make it easier to change bent selector forks....would have been handy on a couple of motors I remember.

[Kyler]

To be perfectly honest your oil cooler cover device looks like a lot of angst for very little or no benefit, unless of course, if the cover wont come off with the engine in the chassis.

My '80 GSX750 motor was not plumbed to use an external cooler and I couldn't find an oil filter cover with two holes to use. This seemed like the best solution at the time.

Based on what I've read above, I'll have to reconsider when I install a GSX1100.

[sidecar bob]

Here is a clip of number 97 a 1327 Hilborn injected Methanol GSX1100 I raced against in the '80s.
Bike #1 is Lind & Hart from the US on a TZ outfit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdHUVu290BI

[Kyler]

Here is a clip of number 97 a 1327 Hilborn injected Methanol GSX1100 I raced against in the '80s.
Bike #1 is Lind & Hart from the US on a TZ outfit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdHUVu290BI

was the front fairing off the #97 for cooling? great race!

btw, was the first time I have seen a driver falling off! :facepalm:

[sidecar bob]

was the front fairing off the #97 for cooling? great race!

btw, was the first time I have seen a driver falling off! :facepalm:

97 never ever had a fairing, it was about as aerodynamic as a letterbox & punched through it with raw horsepower.
Lind & Hart returned to the US quite unable to believe they had been beaten by an un faired 4 stroke.
Interestingly, 97's chassis is still being raced. now with a GSXR1100w engine. Im not sure its a better machine for it though.
Kiwi sidecar riders are so crap & their passengers are so awesome that the riders are falling out all the time.
Heres a clip of my mate Corey showing how its done on a DMR 600 F2 outfit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXwTm8ehA9A

[Kickaha]

Heres a clip of my mate Corey showing how its done on a DMR 600 F2 outfit.

I remember standing there watching that happen and thinking WTF

Which bike is/was #97? is that Barry Fanes?

[Mental Trousers]

Kiwi sidecar riders are so crap & their passengers are so awesome that the riders are falling out all the time.

Those leathers look strangely familiar.

[sidecar bob]

I remember standing there watching that happen and thinking WTF

Which bike is/was #97? is that Barry Fanes?

Sure is. They cracked a side brake disc at HD last BSTT, it had a ford part number on it, I worked at the local ford dealer parts division when I first left school for a couple of years & it looked like an old UK part number.
I phoned a Ford nutter that lived about half an hour up the road that I knew through a mates mate & he had a couple off a '63 Consul 315, Barry was rapt to get one for about $20
Its a Mobuilt & weighs a ton, but the massive GSX11 got around that ok.

[Drew]

I remember standing there watching that happen and thinking WTF

Which bike is/was #97? is that Barry Fanes?
Sister bike to the Agip isn't it? Looks a lot like it if it isn't.

[swarfie]

Sister bike to the Agip isn't it? Looks a lot like it if it isn't.

Yep. And Bobs not wrong about it weighing a ton. In fact I think in fact he's under estimated that :lol:

[Drew]

Yep. And Bobs not wrong about it weighing a ton. In fact I think in fact he's under estimated that :lol:

Agip weighs 350kilos according to it's owner. Things should be allowed an exemption from the no turbo rule with that sort of mass!

[Mental Trousers]

Agip weighs 350kilos according to it's owner. Things should be allowed an exemption from the no turbo rule with that sort of mass!

Imagine the sort of mess Scrivy could make with that mass, a turbo and a shipping container.

[Kyler]

Kiwi sidecar riders are so crap & their passengers are so awesome that the riders are falling out all the time.
Heres a clip of my mate Corey showing how its done on a DMR 600 F2 outfit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXwTm8ehA9A

:laugh: great clip - I watched it 3 times and never figured out how he ejected without getting his feet tangled up.