New tyres, question

[Mushu]

My father has a kawasaki GTR 1400 2012 model and had killed the standard tyres pretty quick so I had a trawl through a few forums to find what tyres would be best, and came to the conclusion that Michelin pilot road 3 comes highly recommended for that model, so that's what he had put on a few weeks ago.

He called me today after finally having a chance to go for a ride and was very disappointed with the performance of the tyres and after about 300k he thinks they are far more worn than they should be. So he called to ask my opinion on if there was a problem and if I would have any suggestions on a solution. He is running manufacturers recommended tyre pressure (42psi) and rides very hard especially considering the weight of the bike.

Any suggestions you guys have for me to pass on? I'll call him during the week and tell him how to check the production dates on the tyres.

Also I had him send pics of the tyres so I'll put up a second post with the pics, any suggestions would be appreciated. Would they likely be so far out of balance to cause this? (The dots are lined up with the valves properly but I doubt they were balanced when the new tyres were fitted)

[Mushu]

298811298812

[Gremlin]

Is that a normal PR3, or the B rated PR3? For a Concours he absolutely must have the B rated one, as the standard one would be way too soft for a heavy tourer.

edit: They should have been balanced when fitting...

[FJRider]

Few tyres last long on heavy powerful tourers (of any make or model) ... especially when ridden hard on the coarse chip seal of the south island roads.

[caspernz]

Any other brands tried, other than the OEM tyres and the PR3s? I'd say just like Gremlin commented, start by making sure it's the GT or B version of the tyre. PR3s seemed to be a sportier tyre than the PR2s before them, and thus wear faster as well. I'm on to PR4s now, and I like to think they've got the compromise sorted now.

I've always found south island roads to be murder on tyres, especially when it involves 'spirited riding' and that's even on smaller bikes.

The photos don't show anything that looks surprising to me, just a bike ridden with intent. Last set of PR3s on my old GSX750F looked more tortured.

No doubt we'll get a few of the Concours riders on here commenting soon on the ideal tyre choice...

[p.dath]

Although you have the tyres already (so it is too late) I would consider either:
* Pilot Road 4 GT version (note - GT version, designed for heavier bikes)
* Pilot Power 3 - suitable for high power bikes - but will wear much faster

So take a look at the PR4 GT version next time.

[p.dath]

What tyre pressure is your Dad running on those tyres? The Michelin tyre selector recommends running 42psi front and back on that bike.

The tyres look like they had had a hard day at the track (does your Dad ride quite hard) - or the tyre pressure is too low.

[unstuck]

What tyre pressure is your Dad running on those tyres? The Michelin tyre selector recommends running 42psi front and back on that bike.

The tyres look like they had had a hard day at the track (does your Dad ride quite hard) - or the tyre pressure is too low.

I read the first post, did you? :msn-wink:

[Blackbird]

The stock PR3 rear certainly isn't sufficiently robust for the weight of the GTR, even with 42 psi in it. The "B" spec as others have said has a stronger carcass (it has the letter B in a panel on the sidewall). Even then, tyre life as others have said isn't going to be all that flash. A friend who had them on his ST1300 reported they were starting to lose shape by 6000 km and were completely stuffed by 9000 km.

I'm a big fan of the PR3's and am now using PR4's but as others have said, the PR4 GT's have been specifically designed for heavier bikes, both in terms of compound and carcass construction.

[Mushu]

I'll have him check whether they are the B spec version (but since I didn't know about it when ordering the tyres I would assume they are the regular PR3). But judging by a bit of googling the standard PR3 shouldn't be as bad as he described 1 up and unloaded (panniers on but empty) and on reasonably decent road surface.

He is in Australia, and so am I. Still using KB cos bikeme doesn't seem as good, lol. So the road surface here isn't as abrasive as the south Island.

I'll be giving him a call in a couple of days and I'll let him know what's been said on here. Thanks for the input guys.

[Blackbird]

Looking at the photo of your Dad's tyres again, do you mean 300 km or 3000 km? Looking at the wear and comparing it with my old PR3@ 13,000 km, there's a heck of a difference, even with the Triple being a far lighter bike! Have also attached a photo of where to look for the B specification mark on the sidewall

[tippersv]

Pirelli Angel GTs also do a 'big bike' version with stiffer sidewalls

[buggerit]

Im on my 3rd set of PR3s and find them good, be intersted to see how people find the PR4
95% of my riding is 2 up and I use the B tyre.
This was a photo at about 10500km

[p.dath]

I read the first post, did you? :msn-wink:

My mistake. It was all stated in the original post.

[Mushu]

Looking at the photo of your Dad's tyres again, do you mean 300 km or 3000 km? Looking at the wear and comparing it with my old PR3@ 13,000 km, there's a heck of a difference, even with the Triple being a far lighter bike! Have also attached a photo of where to look for the B specification mark on the sidewall
300km, that's why he's worried cos already his tyres look like they've been a lot further than that, and they don't feel sticky while riding either. Just sent him a message with the photo showing how to identify if they're B spec or not, should hear from him about it when he gets home from work in about am hour.

[Mushu]

He just got home and checked and they have the B as shown in the above photo. Any other ideas?

[Blackbird]

He just got home and checked and they have the B as shown in the above photo. Any other ideas?

Difficult without real facts. Can we accept that the quoted 42 psi tyre pressure was accurate? i.e, a decent gauge as opposed to a gas station forecourt. How about before and after the ride pressures in case there was an air leak? So many heavy bikes like ST 1300's, Connies and so on happily use PR3's so occurrences of this nature are rare. Looking at you Dad's photo again, there's a lot of damage/wear on the edge of the rain grooves which is really unusual over so little distance.

One thing is for sure, I'd be taking it back for an objective examination by a Michelin rep. Even if your Dad rides hard, there are substantial chicken strips so unless he's been drag racing, I doubt whether cornering forces have been particularly high. Would love to hear the likely outcome if he takes it further!

[Mushu]

Difficult without real facts. Can we accept that the quoted 42 psi tyre pressure was accurate? i.e, a decent gauge as opposed to a gas station forecourt. How about before and after the ride pressures in case there was an air leak? So many heavy bikes like ST 1300's, Connies and so on happily use PR3's so occurrences of this nature are rare. Looking at you Dad's photo again, there's a lot of damage/wear on the edge of the rain grooves which is really unusual over so little distance.

One thing is for sure, I'd be taking it back for an objective examination by a Michelin rep. Even if your Dad rides hard, there are substantial chicken strips so unless he's been drag racing, I doubt whether cornering forces have been particularly high. Would love to hear the likely outcome if he takes it further!

The GTR has on board tyre pressure sensors so we are assuming they are accurate and he monitors them regularly throughout the ride, he will be making contact with Michelin to ask what they have to say on the subject, at the moment I'd like to know the manufacture date of the tyres because the supplier (local kawasaki dealer) already had them in stock so possibly they are quite old, but whether this would be a major factor, I don't know, tyres never last long for me so I've never ridden on old ones.

Also I'm wondering if his suspension settings will be a factor as the bike is usually used for 2 up touring so I set up the suspension quite hard to compensate for the added weight of passenger and luggage, his wife doesn't exactly pack light, panniers and top box are always filed to their limits. He didn't soften the suspension for this ride but it was never a problem on the factory Bridgestones.

Also traction control was on for the entire ride so there couldn't have been any major over throttle throughout the corners or the TC would have sorted it out anyway.

[nzspokes]

Build date is on the side of the tyre. From memory the first 2 numbers are week # and second 2 are year. Normally in a rectangular box.

[haydes55]

Show and tell time with PR3's.

Mine got hot too easily in the dry and I never really enjoyed them as much as I'm liking the new T30's.

I originally used 38/40psi. But the tires were over heating and didn't feel right. 42/42psi was better, but still got too hot on a spirited ride.

I'd avoid PR3's on the future, their "superior" wet weather grip didn't shine through. In the rain I don't exactly push it, so anything bar slicks would handle my wet weather riding anyway. I'd stick to sport/sport touring tires in the future with bigger tread blocks. Every groove in the PR3 rounded off/got the sharp edge, after only a couple thousand K's and I replaced them after 6,000km because their shape was screwed, some tread was down to flat and the bike handled like shite. I've done 2000km so far on the T30, no uneven wear, tires look good and still feel great. Best of all, they can be run at 38/40psi and not over heat on hot days of spirited riding.

[nzspokes]

Show and tell time with PR3's.

Mine got hot too easily in the dry and I never really enjoyed them as much as I'm liking the new T30's.

I originally used 38/40psi. But the tires were over heating and didn't feel right. 42/42psi was better, but still got too hot on a spirited ride.

I'd avoid PR3's on the future, their "superior" wet weather grip didn't shine through. In the rain I don't exactly push it, so anything bar slicks would handle my wet weather riding anyway. I'd stick to sport/sport touring tires in the future with bigger tread blocks. Every groove in the PR3 rounded off/got the sharp edge, after only a couple thousand K's and I replaced them after 6,000km because their shape was screwed, some tread was down to flat and the bike handled like shite. I've done 2000km so far on the T30, no uneven wear, tires look good and still feel great. Best of all, they can be run at 38/40psi and not over heat on hot days of spirited riding.

You went the wrong way. When i ran them 36/38 they were nasty on a hot day. Over heated. Remember Michys are a stiff carcass with soft tread. Higher pressure means more heat. I ended up with them at 32/34 for road and 30/30 for track and they worked much better.

[Mushu]

I told him to play with the pressure a bit go up and down a couple of pounds and see if it makes any improvement but since he works long hours and most weekends it may be awhile before he gets a chance to try it out.

[p.dath]

You went the wrong way. When i ran them 36/38 they were nasty on a hot day. Over heated. Remember Michys are a stiff carcass with soft tread. Higher pressure means more heat. I ended up with them at 32/34 for road and 30/30 for track and they worked much better.

Higher pressure reduces tyre flex, and makes them run cooler.

[dinosaur]

I found I didn't get real good kilometers out of any tyres - i ride a heavy bike Bandit 1200, and ride like I'm on a sports bike

The 3's I found re awesome - good grip and not bad wear 4000ks

looking at your dads tyres they wear like mine did - real normal for hard into the corner, full throttle out
The problem with the tourers being ridden hard is the wider torque curve and lower HP than the sports bike equivalent
Basically you can use all the available HP and torque comfortably to slow down and rip out of a corner - do that on a sports bike and the rear wheel tends to get real twitchy and can spit you off - I love the way the bandit has such usable power on the road in so many conditions without having to be a track guru
I can ride it faster and harder than a GSXR 1000 (until the straight bits of road)

Just generally slowing down will make a huge difference

To get better ks I modified my riding - not opening it up so much on exit of the corner (I use to love the feeling of the back wheel coming around slipping as i rolled on the throttle)
then breaking a bit earlier into the corner and breaking less, not dragging an almost locked up rear wheel into the corner. the bandit has lots of torque so the rear wheel will drag on de-acceleration

the big difference came when RT up-graded my suspension - Ohlins rear and racetech front http://kiwirider.co.nz/ckt/

I got about 8000ks on my last set

[Blackbird]

the big difference came when RT up-graded my suspension - Ohlins rear and racetech front http://kiwirider.co.nz/ckt/

I got about 8000ks on my last set

Yep, when I fitted a Penske rear unit with adjustable compression and rebound damping to my 230 kg Blackbird, my rear tyres lasted on average 2000 km more than with the OEM unit, through not carrying so much shock load.

[Mushu]

Yep, when I fitted a Penske rear unit with adjustable compression and rebound damping to my 230 kg Blackbird, my rear tyres lasted on average 2000 km more than with the OEM unit, through not carrying so much shock load.


I found I didn't get real good kilometers out of any tyres - i ride a heavy bike Bandit 1200, and ride like I'm on a sports bike

The 3's I found re awesome - good grip and not bad wear 4000ks

looking at your dads tyres they wear like mine did - real normal for hard into the corner, full throttle out
The problem with the tourers being ridden hard is the wider torque curve and lower HP than the sports bike equivalent
Basically you can use all the available HP and torque comfortably to slow down and rip out of a corner - do that on a sports bike and the rear wheel tends to get real twitchy and can spit you off - I love the way the bandit has such usable power on the road in so many conditions without having to be a track guru
I can ride it faster and harder than a GSXR 1000 (until the straight bits of road)

Just generally slowing down will make a huge difference

To get better ks I modified my riding - not opening it up so much on exit of the corner (I use to love the feeling of the back wheel coming around slipping as i rolled on the throttle)
then breaking a bit earlier into the corner and breaking less, not dragging an almost locked up rear wheel into the corner. the bandit has lots of torque so the rear wheel will drag on de-acceleration

the big difference came when RT up-graded my suspension - Ohlins rear and racetech front http://kiwirider.co.nz/ckt/

I got about 8000ks on my last set

Since it's a near new bike and he's still paying it off I doubt he will want to upgrade/modify any part of it, he was just hoping for something better than the factory rubber since he needed to replace them anyway.

The PR3s came recommended after a few days of Internet trawling on my part but so far they seem worse in both grip and wear rate. I guess we'll just have to see what effect playing with the pressure has and if no luck there we will contact Michelin and see what they say.

Like I said he doesn't ride to often and he owns 2 bikes so they should still last until next year and then he might have to try something else maybe Pirellis or Metzlers or something.

[Gremlin]

The PR3s came recommended after a few days of Internet trawling on my part but so far they seem worse in both grip and wear rate. I guess we'll just have to see what effect playing with the pressure has and if no luck there we will contact Michelin and see what they say.
Dunno what you read, but opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one... Whether they are qualified is another matter...

Tyre choice is always subjective...

[p.dath]

The PR3s came recommended after a few days of Internet trawling on my part but so far they seem worse in both grip and wear rate. I guess we'll just have to see what effect playing with the pressure has and if no luck there we will contact Michelin and see what they say.


The Pilot Road 3 (PR3) is a good tyre. Michelin recommend Pilot Road 3's for for sub 1000cc bikes. Michelin don't recommend them for 1000cc and over bikes in general. That's not to say you can't fit them to 1000cc and over bike.

Michelin normally recommend the Pilot Power 3 (PP3) for 1000cc and over bikes. The PP3 is a much stronger tyre construction. So if you have a 1000cc bike, and like opening the throttle right up and laying down a lot of power you are less likely to rip the tyre up. By contrast, the PR3 will wear significantly - but only if you are laying down a lot of power.

The other twist is if you have a 1000cc and over bike and it is heavy (your case). You should be choosing between the Pilot Road 4 GT version (or PR3 B spec), or if you like to lay down lots of power all the time the Pilot Power 3.

[pritch]

My brother runs a Concours so I have asked him some questions. He is in West Australia though so he won't read my post for a couple of hours at least.
There was a fishing trip planned, I hope he hasn't left yet.

[Blackbird]

My brother runs a Concours so I have asked him some questions. He is in West Australia though so he won't read my post for a couple of hours at least.
There was a fishing trip planned, I hope he hasn't left yet.

From memory, KoroJ and Bandit Rider (ST1300 and Concours respectively) have both run PR3's and got decent life from them. I don't think either riders are slowcoaches :msn-wink: so without actual data, it's nigh on impossible to determine root cause.

[Owl]

From memory, KoroJ and Bandit Rider (ST1300 and Concours respectively) have both run PR3's and got decent life from them. I don't think either riders are slowcoaches :msn-wink: so without actual data, it's nigh on impossible to determine root cause.

Thread never concluded, but his spreadsheet is up to date.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140281-Pilot-Road-3-for-The-Concours-14?highlight=pr3+michelin

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...Gc&output=html (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_GB&hl=en_GB&key=0AsXSsPBaLry4dE5lUnZyWEs5dWFMWEhGM3JDN1NmdGc&output=html)

[Blackbird]

Thread never concluded, but his spreadsheet is up to date.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140281-Pilot-Road-3-for-The-Concours-14?highlight=pr3+michelin

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...Gc&output=html (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_GB&hl=en_GB&key=0AsXSsPBaLry4dE5lUnZyWEs5dWFMWEhGM3JDN1NmdGc&output=html)

Awesome! :niceone: Well done Andrew. Thanks Owl :not:

[pritch]

Reply back from the West, all the detail I could have wished for - and more:


Weeeeeeelllllllll weren't they lucky,
You've a brother that's done over 80k's on two of these bikes an 09 and presently 2011 both from new.
The research was carried out by a guy over here that headed up the Aussie site "gtr-aus.com"
His name was Davo and some of the guys might have read about him. He was killed a couple of years
ago in the States when he ran into a Moose whilst competing in the unofficial race across the states, cant
for the life of me remember what it's called.
Anyway back in about 08/ 09 he carried out a study based on all the good tyres sold here in Oz.
With the best results going to the Michelin PR2'S.
Anyway Bro to answer you questions in order;
Front tyre is a Michelin 120/ 70 ZR 17 mc (58w) Pilot Power
Back tyre is a Michelin 190/ 50 ZR 17 mc (73w) Pilot road 2

We run at a pressure of 42 taken cold (bike sensors aren't accurate and normally read at 44)

We get between 19k's and 20k's from this combination. Very pleasing, we buy from the states and
fit ourselves, that is the four guys I ride with who all have 1400 GTR's.
I rang the National Manager Michelin Tyres in the Eastern states when they first changed to PR3's and
he advised me not to change as they would still be producing PR2's for some time. We're very happy
with the wear. The OEM's Bridgestone's are worse than useless!
Your guys should look at where we buy ours from "Jake Wilson.com" ex USA and if unable to fit their own
pay to have a tyre shop fit, It'll still be cheaper than having them supply and fit.
We can land them here for around $320.00 including freight a set. Where our bike tyre shop charges $525.00
for the same service, not forgetting we fit and balance our own. I'm on my second set with this bike at 60k's having
only run the originals for about 7k's and they were totally Fu@ked!
The guy over east did say the 3's and 4's were designed for the States and European wet roads.
If your guys over their look up the OZ site there's plenty to read up on.