Haircut boy gets $24k costs

[MVnut]

Well it's $24k down the drain for the school.....isn't that taxpayers money in there somewhere....actual costs were about $36k apparently....what a waste of time and money, the little shit should've just got a haircut

[neels]

Perhaps some of the other students should give him a haircut, as a special thank you for wasting $24k of the schools money that could have been put to far better use.

Still can't understand how he can enrol at a school knowing what the rules are, then take the school to court because he doesn't like the rules, the world has gone mad......

[sil3nt]

Still can't understand how he can enrol at a school knowing what the rules are, then take the school to court because he doesn't like the rules, the world has gone mad......That isn't what happened.

[MVnut]

Perhaps some of the other students should give him a haircut, as a special thank you for wasting $24k of the schools money that could have been put to far better use.

Still can't understand how he can enrol at a school knowing what the rules are, then take the school to court because he doesn't like the rules, the world has gone mad......

Agreed, back in my day (at Auckland Grammar) violence from peers was a good deterrent....plus caning of course if you sneezed out of turn. Discipline.....is that even still in the dictionary?

[MVnut]

That isn't what happened.

In basic terms, it pretty much is

[BigAl]

Been already discussed but the blame lies with the parents imo.

What a bloody waste of money, good way to a new S1000RR......:angry:

[Bikemad]

shithot......now the precedent has been set.....i'm gonna sue my employer cause company rules state i must wear a poofy blue shirt to work and i don't look good in blue...........:headbang:

[James Deuce]

It's a non-issue inflated into a battle of egos by a school who found it more important to make a principled stand about a student ever so slightly bending rules than using common sense. Serves us right for thinking Authority = 100% right. Society will not collapse if a boy ties his hair up.

[sil3nt]

In basic terms, it pretty much isHe had been at the school for some time and it was never an issue. The headmaster had been at the school only a month and decided his haircut was unacceptable. We know he has had long hair for a while because he was in the news January 2013. So unless I missed the part where the kid had just enrolled it is nothing like what neels has said.

[MVnut]

He had been at the school for some time and it was never an issue. The headmaster had been at the school only a month and decided his haircut was unacceptable. We know he has had long hair for a while because he was in the news January 2013. So unless I missed the part where the kid had just enrolled it is nothing like what neels has said.

Changes nothing, basically he was running close to the wire for some time, the rule was still there, even though now it is deemed to be poorly worded.

[scott411]

They should just post a list of things that will be cancelled due to the 24 k they were charged,

[buggerit]

Well it's $24k down the drain for the school.....isn't that taxpayers money in there somewhere....actual costs were about $36k apparently....what a waste of time and money, the little shit should've just got a haircut

Lots of employers do a facebook search now , ooh bugga!
Hope they dont cancel to many activities to claw back the budget deficit ,someone would be popular:bash:

[neels]

He had been at the school for some time and it was never an issue. The headmaster had been at the school only a month and decided his haircut was unacceptable. We know he has had long hair for a while because he was in the news January 2013. So unless I missed the part where the kid had just enrolled it is nothing like what neels has said.

If the headmaster changed the school rules when he started and then enforced the new rule a month later then fair enough, different if the rule already existed when he enrolled at the school but just hadn't been enforced. Most people would view a headmaster trying to improve discipline or the image of their school as a good thing.

Either way one parent making a point on behalf of his poor hard done by son has wasted a shitload of the schools money.

[jasonu]

Hopefully the prefects will flush the little pricks head down the bog. That will fix his hair doo.

[Trade_nancy]

It's a non-issue inflated into a battle of egos by a school who found it more important to make a principled stand about a student ever so slightly bending rules than using common sense. Serves us right for thinking Authority = 100% right. Society will not collapse if a boy ties his hair up.

Tell that to the defense force if you want a job there....or my workplace..girlie..
Rules are not necessarily about the state or appearance of the person as defined by said rules - rather a means of instilling a willingness to conform and follow directions. A means of making a yob disciplined. Otherwise - fuck off and live outside of the society you are rocking the boat of - fuck off to the boonies and live like a hermit under a rock.
Wonder how he'll react to law enforcement telling him he has to wear a seat belt in his car? Or will he not want a crash helmet on a bike? Bet he'd not wear hi-viz...oops.

[TheDemonLord]

Changes nothing, basically he was running close to the wire for some time, the rule was still there, even though now it is deemed to be poorly worded.

Running Close to the wire doesn't equal exceeding it - unless of course you would be happy to get a speeding ticket for doing 95 in a 100 zone?

IMO the Bill serves as a valuable lesson to the school - that tyrannically enforcing and following arbitrary rules is a very slippery slope indeed.

I personally 100% support the kid - not only because I have long hair and have been through similar issues - but also because challenging BS rules and using ones brain IMO is a very important lesson we all should learn (but very few apparently do....)

[Voltaire]

What are the rules for judges and long hair....:killingme
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/29/article-2137076-12D5E3C1000005DC-484_306x423.jpg

They are nearly as out of touch as Saint John's College....

oddly the bloke they were named after also had long hair.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpMTt2KIooDuWVtyfEfJwax8__1XfkA QydpGFABN6-eqkIaItW

[James Deuce]

Tell that to the defense force if you want a job there....or my workplace..girlie..
Rules are not necessarily about the state or appearance of the person as defined by said rules - rather a means of instilling a willingness to conform and follow directions. A means of making a yob disciplined. Otherwise - fuck off and live outside of the society you are rocking the boat of - fuck off to the boonies and live like a hermit under a rock.
Wonder how he'll react to law enforcement telling him he has to wear a seat belt in his car? Or will he not want a crash helmet on a bike? Bet he'd not wear hi-viz...oops.

It's school. He's not operating a lathe or an M134. It's a non-issue that's cost tax-payer money when it should have been resolved within the school system.

Who are you calling girlie? If you're a "trade_nancy" I rather suspect you're calling the kettle black, pot.

An ad hominem attack usually means you've conceded the point and your overreacting angrily to hide the sneaking suspicion that there is more truth in my position than your own. Nothing bad will happen if a schoolboy ties his hair up. I promise. Something bad happened because a reactionary pillock with a Hitler complex pushed it into court. Whihc may or may not have been his own Dad.

[toycollector10]

Despite all the rights and wrongs of the situation he won but ultimately he will lose.
"So what was you name again? Battison, Lucan Battison. We'll be in touch about the job interview"
Who would employ a litigious person with inflated, exaggerated ideas about his rights and place in society? An employer would just be buying a whole lot of trouble by putting him on the payroll and now every employer in NZ has got a ring around his name.

I was involved with this crap myself (hair off the collar) in 1970 but quickly realised it was just conceit. I joined the RNZAF in '72 and got me a real man cut and it didn't bother me at all.

[Akzle]

Discipline.....is that even still in the dictionary?

no. Women had it replaced with 'not achieved compliance'

of course the decision can be appealed.
The real offense is that the lawerjews on both sides are smiling as they sign for their timeshare yachts...

[Akzle]

If the headmaster changed the school rules when he started and then enforced the new rule a month later then fair enough, different if the rule already existed when he enrolled at the school but just hadn't been enforced.

no. See, it not being enforced sets a (jew term) common law precedent.

[Trade_nancy]

It's school. He's not operating a lathe or an M134. It's a non-issue that's cost tax-payer money when it should have been resolved within the school system.

Q.
Who are you calling girlie? If you're a "trade_nancy" I rather suspect you're calling the kettle black, pot.
A. Him and his dad.

An ad hominem attack usually means you've conceded the point and your overreacting angrily to hide the sneaking suspicion that there is more truth in my position than your own.
A. Irrelevant based on answer to Q1.

Nothing bad will happen if a schoolboy ties his hair up. I promise.
A. OK. Unless he gets it caught in the overhead revolving dishwasher ringers...and I guess you like long hair. I did too.

Something bad happened because a reactionary pillock with a Hitler complex pushed it into court. Whihc may or may not have been his own Dad.
A. Agreed. See I am not a hominem....longhair.

[oldrider]

He had been at the school for some time and it was never an issue. The headmaster had been at the school only a month and decided his haircut was unacceptable. We know he has had long hair for a while because he was in the news January 2013. So unless I missed the part where the kid had just enrolled it is nothing like what neels has said.

True, it is the new headmaster that should be looking for a new job, he was completely out of line and obviously promoted beyond his competence level!

It should never have happened ... the school board should never have appointed him ... bet they whish they hadn't now! :rolleyes:

Custom and practice had been well established on a subjective school rule but that new headmaster showed them just who was boss! :kick: . Didn't he? 24k later! :facepalm:

[buggerit]

It's school. He's not operating a lathe or an M134. It's a non-issue that's cost tax-payer money when it should have been resolved within the school system.

Who are you calling girlie? If you're a "trade_nancy" I rather suspect you're calling the kettle black, pot.

An ad hominem attack usually means you've conceded the point and your overreacting angrily to hide the sneaking suspicion that there is more truth in my position than your own. Nothing bad will happen if a schoolboy ties his hair up. I promise. Something bad happened because a reactionary pillock with a Hitler complex pushed it into court. Whihc may or may not have been his own Dad.

News flash: schools have lathes, unfortunately alot sit unused because with the lack of disipline at school these days, it is to hard health
and safety wise so everyone misses out.:mad:

[Tazz]

It's a non-issue inflated into a battle of egos by a school who found it more important to make a principled stand about a student ever so slightly bending rules than using common sense. Serves us right for thinking Authority = 100% right. Society will not collapse if a boy ties his hair up.

Yep, and then once they've stamped all the 'creative thinking' and individuality out of him at high school he'll get the KB sheeples choice award and then a few years at uni trying to claw some of it back (depending on field).

You'd think a school of all places would have enough intelligence between the decision makers to not let things progress this far over a dumb rule that is no longer socially relevant, but the new guy is obviously a power tripping retard who I hope is sacked and never put in a leadership role again.

[Tazz]

News flash: schools have lathes, unfortunately alot sit unused because with the lack of disipline at school these days, it is to hard health
and safety wise so everyone misses out.:mad:

Maybe if there weren't so many stupid rules and kids minds were kept active rather than being taught to be drones they'd be a bit more 'disciplined'? There are always going to be 'bad apples' but why hold back other kids because of them. Let them lose a hand or two.

How is that primary school that relaxed it's rules going again...?

Actually, just thinking about it some of the most 'smart arse' kids at school were the most creative with their hands as far as wood and metal work went. Others were just geniuses all over but liked to tell authority to fuck off and leave them be. Guess they were failures though because they didn't respect some pillock who was in the wrong career pushing them around.

[Akzle]

Maybe if there weren't so many stupid rules and kids minds were kept active rather than being taught to be drones they'd be a bit more 'disciplined'? There are always going to be 'bad apples' but why hold back other kids because of them. Let them lose a hand or two.

How is that primary school that relaxed it's rules going again...?

Actually, just thinking about it some of the most 'smart arse' kids at school were the most creative with their hands as far as wood and metal work went. Guess they were failures though because they didn't respect some pillock who was in the wrong career pushing them around.

i could weld better than my shop teacher...
Roll a fuken joint better than him too.
But im a fucking failure at society.
Oh. And i have long hair.
Fuck yourself, old white prats.

[MVnut]

it should have been resolved within the school system.
Something bad happened because a reactionary pillock with a Hitler complex pushed it into court. Whihc may or may not have been his own Dad.

Now that is a sensible comment. While I don't agree 100% with the School, the boy (who will now be marked for life via the internet) should simply have accepted that while at that school, the headmaster is the law (within reason) even if only in the job for a month. When Auckland Grammar changed Heads (from W. Copper to D.J. Graham) we thought we were in for easy street.(Wrong haha)....if this kid was at AGS back then and caused a $$$$$ issue so we didn't get rugby balls or whatever, he would have been scragged every lunchtime for a couple of terms and caned after lunch every day for having school uniform in disarray......a perfect punishment in my mind, sometimes the old ways work best

[Swoop]

shithot......now the precedent has been set.....i'm gonna sue my employer cause company rules state i must wear a poofy blue shirt to work and i don't look good in blue...........:headbang:
Excellent! There goes the faggoty Hi-Vis jackets of invisibility!

What are the rules for judges and long hair....
The queer-as-fuck look is entirely optional for the judiciary. Has been for ages.

[oldrider]

The queer-as-fuck look is entirely optional for the judiciary. Has been for ages.

IMHO says a lot about the maturity of those people and they sit in judgement of others FFS! :wacko:

[Akzle]

IMHO says a lot about the maturity of those people and they sit in judgement of others FFS! :wacko:

oh come on! As a grown man you cant tell me you dont like playing dress up, just a bit...

[Voltaire]

I went to a Catholic School and they used to get all twisted up if you were not wearing your cap.
They liked using the cane too, and being generally miserable
Like a magic less version of Hogworts.
Previously I went to a state primary school , it was much better.
My Kings College mates at tech said that was nothing compared to Fagging and other things....
That's what you get a Dickensian private schools run by teachers with delusion of power.
Sent my kids to a state school.

[TheDemonLord]

Now that is a sensible comment. While I don't agree 100% with the School, the boy (who will now be marked for life via the internet) should simply have accepted that while at that school, the headmaster is the law (within reason) even if only in the job for a month.

Cool - so what you are saying is that you must never disagree with Authority, even when authority is acting stupidly, ignoring the rules or interpreting the rules incorrectly.

I myself prefer to think for myself and if a rule is either illogical, illegal or just plain wrong it is my right AND duty to challenge it.

This kid did, Won (proving that he was RIGHT to challenge it) and now the School has Egg on its face, a hefty Bill to pay and a Headmaster who thought that his power trip as Headmaster was more important than logic and reason.

[Trade_nancy]

Cool - so what you are saying is that you must never disagree with Authority, even when authority is acting stupidly, ignoring the rules or interpreting the rules incorrectly.

I myself prefer to think for myself and if a rule is either illogical, illegal or just plain wrong it is my right AND duty to challenge it.

This kid did, Won (proving that he was RIGHT to challenge it) and now the School has Egg on its face, a hefty Bill to pay and a Headmaster who thought that his power trip as Headmaster was more important than logic and reason.

Well there are even rules on this forum mate. Try replying to a thread without 1st stripping out any embedded image and the mod will send u a stroppy note real fast....and eventaully you'll be removed if you persist (sorry Hitcher) even if you think that is silly..you have to accept the rules of the group/organisation/society - or petition for change through the avenues available...or fuck off.

[Woodman]

Cool - so what you are saying is that you must never disagree with Authority, even when authority is acting stupidly, ignoring the rules or interpreting the rules incorrectly.

I myself prefer to think for myself and if a rule is either illogical, illegal or just plain wrong it is my right AND duty to challenge it.

This kid did, Won (proving that he was RIGHT to challenge it) and now the School has Egg on its face, a hefty Bill to pay and a Headmaster who thought that his power trip as Headmaster was more important than logic and reason.

Yea but its not like some long haired rebellious teen went up against "the man" was it.
The jumped up little prick told his daddy and they got a lawyer. Thats just a little ghey IMHO.

Anyway its a fuckup all round.

[MVnut]

Cool - so what you are saying is that you must never disagree with Authority, even when authority is acting stupidly, ignoring the rules or interpreting the rules incorrectly.

I myself prefer to think for myself and if a rule is either illogical, illegal or just plain wrong it is my right AND duty to challenge it.

This kid did, Won (proving that he was RIGHT to challenge it) and now the School has Egg on its face, a hefty Bill to pay and a Headmaster who thought that his power trip as Headmaster was more important than logic and reason.

I will put it another way, as a kid growing up I learned respect and discipline (among other things) and these 2 things have saved my life on more than one occasion. The boy won his case because the wording of the rule was deemed inadequate, not because the rule was 'wrong' and regardless of your or my thoughts, he will have future employment prospects greatly lessened because of this case. I certainly would never employ him, nor would I wish to be in a jungle relying on someone like him watching my back. If you want to challenge all unfair laws you should move from the safety of NZ and try that in somewhere like Iraq or the highlands of Papua New Guinea, there being a rebel is necessary, as is occasionally towing the line. School is about gaining a learning process and some life resources for the outside world. Kids today follow few rules and I think society is too PC, allowing them in general to get away with too much. I love rebellion in the right circumstance, this haircut case was not it.

[Akzle]

Yea but its not like some long haired rebellious teen went up against "the man" was it.
The jumped up little prick told his daddy and they got a lawyer. Thats just a little ghey IMHO.

Anyway its a fuckup all round.
i would say they first tried discussing it like adults. The school/principal? Said: 'so sue me', and they did.

Thats the farce/system which exists under crown legislation to settle disputes when men act like kindergarten children. Which is encouraged. And profitable, under the same farce.

[MVnut]

i would say they first tried discussing it like adults. The school/principal? Said: 'so sue me', and they did.

Thats the farce/system which exists under crown legislation to settle disputes when men act like kindergarten children. Which is encouraged. And profitable, under the same farce.

True, a normally rhetorical statement like 'so sue me' may have started the farce of the court case....the headmaster and the father I think both maybe went down a path of no return, but it was the stupid kid that initiated it all crying to his dad (in my opinion). He will be a poor specimen of a man if he continues like that. I have sympathy for the school in general as $24000 is a lot of money for the parents to fork out, where do you think the school gets money, from government or on trees?

[TheDemonLord]

Well there are even rules on this forum mate. Try replying to a thread without 1st stripping out any embedded image and the mod will send u a stroppy note real fast....and eventaully you'll be removed if you persist (sorry Hitcher) even if you think that is silly..you have to accept the rules of the group/organisation/society - or petition for change through the avenues available...or fuck off.

Let us take your example - for that Rule there is a perfectly good reason for it - it increases loading time, often cause the Webpage to display incorrectly and increases bandwidth. Also it is considered impolite (due to the factors mentioned)

Rules that can stand up to the rigor of critical analysis and can be defended using reason and Logic are fine - rules that cannot and are simply enforced arbitrarily aren't.


Yea but its not like some long haired rebellious teen went up against "the man" was it.
The jumped up little prick told his daddy and they got a lawyer. Thats just a little ghey IMHO.

Anyway its a fuckup all round.

Both scenarios you listed could be viewed as interpretations of events. I myself had run ins when I was in school and on one occasion resulted in a strongly worded letter to the school - written by my Dad, the result was the school backed down. I see little difference between this scenario and what happened in NZ - The Kid had a good case to be made, but didn't have the Experience or skills to properly argue it - so the enlisted the help of someone who did.


I will put it another way, as a kid growing up I learned respect and discipline (among other things) and these 2 things have saved my life on more than one occasion.

There is a time for rigid discipline, and there is a time to respectfully challenge authority - being an adult is partly knowing when to do which - for every occasion you can list where rigid discipline saved your life - I bet I can come up with an occasion where bending or breaking the rules has saved mine.


The boy won his case because the wording of the rule was deemed inadequate, not because the rule was 'wrong' and regardless of your or my thoughts,

So, if the Headmaster had pulled his head out from his Egotistical power trip - he would have seen that the rule was poorly worded and updated it and THEN enforced that rule, OR he would have entered mediation and agreed that whilst the boy wasn't following the spirit of the rule, he was following the letter of the rule.


he will have future employment prospects greatly lessened because of this case. I certainly would never employ him, nor would I wish to be in a jungle relying on someone like him watching my back.

I would employ him in a heartbeat - he clearly has a brain and can think for himself - two qualities that seem to be more and more lacking in the general populace. As for being in a Jungle - maybe not in the combat sense, but in the corporate jungle sense I would.


If you want to challenge all unfair laws you should move from the safety of NZ and try that in somewhere like Iraq or the highlands of Papua New Guinea, there being a rebel is necessary, as is occasionally towing the line.

Risk Vs Reward - its a great risk for me to go to places like iraq or PNG, and until they figure it out for themselves - there is no point me or anyone else going in there to tell them otherwise.


School is about gaining a learning process and some life resources for the outside world. Kids today follow few rules and I think society is too PC, allowing them in general to get away with too much. I love rebellion in the right circumstance, this haircut case was not it.

I agree school is about learning - and what better lesson to teach people than to challenge poorly written or poorly thought out rules and to not be afraid to go against the norm? Most visionary leaders, in business and politics often start out this way - and I suspect if the Kid is as smart as I suspect he is, he will do well in later life.

[jellywrestler]

Well it's $24k down the drain for the school.....isn't that taxpayers money in there somewhere....actual costs were about $36k apparently....what a waste of time and money, the little shit should've just got a haircut

nah that lawyers kid will be able to stay and extra year at a private school so it's all good

[MVnut]

There is a time for rigid discipline, and there is a time to respectfully challenge authority - being an adult is partly knowing when to do which - for every occasion you can list where rigid discipline saved your life - I bet I can come up with an occasion where bending or breaking the rules has saved mine.







.
So you have been in a fair number of situations involving imminent danger and risk of your life, that surprises me (sorry for off topic). By the way I am all for bending or breaking the rules but only in the right circumstance, big difference between discipline and being a dork, sometimes you do need to make the rules as you go along, but not with the haircut issue. We should probably just agree to disagree, this could go on for a while

[buggerit]

So who is the longtime loser in all this,I don't think the school is and def not the lawyers.
And therein lies the lesson,pick your fights and remember, being right can still bite u on the arse .

[oldrider]

The art of diplomacy is to be able to "tell someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip"!

The previous head master had it under control the new man was obviously a zealot .. My way or the highway type!

The judge sorted the "facts of law" out for him and now the school is paying for their own indiscretion in employing him --- $24,000.00 later!

Most schools can't afford that level of incompetence. :facepalm:

[Blackbird]

The art of diplomacy is to be able to "tell someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip"!

I thought the art of diplomacy was to talk softly and carry a big stick :innocent: . None of the parties seen to have talked softly first in this case.

When I was at grammar school in the UK, a smartarse remark to one of the teachers earned me a week of lunchtimes pulling a heavy roller up and down the cricket pitches. As far as I remember, I didn't think it was unfair at all and whining to my parents involved would have caused me a world of pain :yes:

[mashman]

Cut your hair because we said so. What is the reason for having to have one's haircut above the collar? As a show of respect? I was kicked out of school for a week/until hair was cut nearly 30 years ago and some schools are still overly fuckin ridiculous about it? If girls can have long hair, then why can't boys? What a load of nazi north korean bullshit Money well spent.

[Yow Ling]

Well it's $24k down the drain for the school.....isn't that taxpayers money in there somewhere....actual costs were about $36k apparently....what a waste of time and money, the little shit should've just got a haircut

If their actual costs were 36k and they were awarded 24k it makes it a pretty expensive principle to stand up for.
Plus the now somewhat limited employment prospects for Lucan, really who would want to employ a agitator, maybe he will need to join the public service, unions or a fringe political party

[MVnut]

If their actual costs were 36k and they were awarded 24k it makes it a pretty expensive principle to stand up for.
Plus the now somewhat limited employment prospects for Lucan, really who would want to employ a agitator, maybe he will need to join the public service, unions or a fringe political party

Why can't he just live off the dole like a lot of others (hey I'm not knocking you if you really can't get a job)

[Ocean1]

It's school. He's not operating a lathe or an M134. It's a non-issue that's cost tax-payer money when it should have been resolved within the school system.

Who are you calling girlie? If you're a "trade_nancy" I rather suspect you're calling the kettle black, pot.

An ad hominem attack usually means you've conceded the point and your overreacting angrily to hide the sneaking suspicion that there is more truth in my position than your own. Nothing bad will happen if a schoolboy ties his hair up. I promise. Something bad happened because a reactionary pillock with a Hitler complex pushed it into court. Whihc may or may not have been his own Dad.

Aannnd what happens when the next wee git ties his hair up so it only touches his collar sometimes?

Somewhere, someone has to draw a line, knowing that every fucking adolescent on the planet is going to step over it. And sooner, not later a kid absolutely has to be told that he's over the line.

Because the consequences of just giving up and letting them have long hair is that they'll ignore rules for the rest of their lives.

Really. Can't you see the results of exactly that all around you even now?

[swbarnett]

Aannnd what happens when the next wee git ties his hair up so it only touches his collar sometimes?

Somewhere, someone has to draw a line, knowing that every fucking adolescent on the planet is going to step over it. And sooner, not later a kid absolutely has to be told that he's over the line.

Because the consequences of just giving up and letting them have long hair is that they'll ignore rules for the rest of their lives.

Really. Can't you see the results of exactly that all around you even now?
Yes, but if the lesson was to challenge those laws that just don't stand up to close scrutiny then that rebellious streak would be of great benefit to us all and should be encouraged.

[Ocean1]

Yes, but if the lesson was to challenge those laws that just don't stand up to close scrutiny then that rebellious streak would be of great benefit to us all and should be encouraged.

But that's not the lesson.

For adolescent boys the lesson is: Can you obey orders?

Historically those that answered "no" too often didn't survive to become men.

Today they do, we just often wish they hadn't.

[Winston001]

Don't you think its astonishing that in 2014 schools are still arguing over the length of boys hair? I remember this stuff well in the 1970s and eventually the schools gave up. Funny how things come around.

The general views expressed online, in public opinion letters, and talkback, support the school which is a little surprising.

Anyway leaving that aside, the one statement which annoyed me was from the boy's father who said his son had learned to stand up for himself. Nonsense.

If his son had intervened in a bullying situation, or publicly rejected racial discrimination among his peers, or had taken some unpopular stand to protect others - yes that would be standing up.

But his issue was completely self-centred - all about him, on a trivial matter.

As someone said upthread, pick your battles.

[swbarnett]

Far too many apathetic yes men (and women) around today. I'd far rather have people who are able to judge for themselves if a rule is just or not. Even better if they have the wisdom to know when to challenge said rules.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Well it's $24k down the drain for the school.....isn't that taxpayers money in there somewhere....actual costs were about $36k apparently....what a waste of time and money, the little shit should've just got a haircut

incorrect. The school shouldn't have been a bunch of fascists. the principal and the board should be sacked and also prosecuted for wasting taxpayers goddamn money.

Pointless, futile, absolute waste of time, effort and energy. School uniforms are instruments of fascism, and school teachers are, almost without exception, power crazed, terrible human beings. They got exactly what they deserved. Fuck them.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If their actual costs were 36k and they were awarded 24k it makes it a pretty expensive principle to stand up for.
Plus the now somewhat limited employment prospects for Lucan, really who would want to employ a agitator, maybe he will need to join the public service, unions or a fringe political party

I would be happy to employ someone who was prepared to endure the ridicule of fuckwits to stand up for a principle they thought was right.

I can't believe the attitude of some of you people. talk about chop your tall poppies.

[Akzle]

'this is the way we've akways whipped dead horses'

[mashman]

Aannnd what happens when the next wee git ties his hair up so it only touches his collar sometimes?

Somewhere, someone has to draw a line, knowing that every fucking adolescent on the planet is going to step over it. And sooner, not later a kid absolutely has to be told that he's over the line.

Because the consequences of just giving up and letting them have long hair is that they'll ignore rules for the rest of their lives.

Really. Can't you see the results of exactly that all around you even now?

Cachchchchchching.

Compliance using force. Priceless. Gawd yer a fossil. If the rules are fuckin stupid, then they should be removed. I hope all of the boys at the school grow their hair. It ain't like it's going to change the person, although they may have a bit more respect for the authority figures in that their concerns will have been addressed.

[Yow Ling]

I would be happy to employ someone who was prepared to endure the ridicule of fuckwits to stand up for a principle they thought was right.

I can't believe the attitude of some of you people. talk about chop your tall poppies.

Give him a job then. How many people do you currently employ ? Or are you just talking hypothetically

[Akzle]

Give him a job then. How many people do you currently employ ? Or are you just talking hypothetically

the kids still in school, doing well, incase you didnt notice.

i know how distracting the big letters on headlines can be, and with so many people repeating the same irrelevant shit, i can see how you wouldnt notice that.

[Ocean1]

Cachchchchchching.

Compliance using force. Priceless. Gawd yer a fossil. If the rules are fuckin stupid, then they should be removed. I hope all of the boys at the school grow their hair. It ain't like it's going to change the person, although they may have a bit more respect for the authority figures in that their concerns will have been addressed.

You must really enjoy being wrong, anyone else would get sick of the ridicule.

The rules aren't stupid, they're there to effect a change in adolescent behaviour to that required of an adult.

Adults that contribute positively to society, rather than themselves.

Adults that don't steal your shit.

Adults that don't rape your daughter.

[Berries]

incorrect. The school shouldn't have been a bunch of fascists. the principal and the board should be sacked and also prosecuted for wasting taxpayers goddamn money.

Pointless, futile, absolute waste of time, effort and energy. School uniforms are instruments of fascism, and school teachers are, almost without exception, power crazed, terrible human beings. They got exactly what they deserved. Fuck them.
Twenty bucks says you have dreads.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Give him a job then. How many people do you currently employ ? Or are you just talking hypothetically

our current staff is six, down from 11 at our peak in 2006-7. Our roster is full at present - last new hire was October last year.

If you have nice tits and a bit of a personality we will be looking for a receptionist/coffee maker in the near-ish future. You need to be good with the customers, able to do the secretary thing, and willing to relieve my midafternoon urges. If interested shoot me a PM.

[HenryDorsetCase]

You must really enjoy being wrong, anyone else would get sick of the ridicule.

The rules aren't stupid, they're there to effect a change in adolescent behaviour to that required of an adult.

Adults that contribute positively to society, rather than themselves.

Adults that don't steal your shit.

Adults that don't rape your daughter.

Laudable aims, of course.

Please explain how dressing the kids like 1930's brownshirts, and making them march, and policing the length of their goddamn hair achieves those laudable goals. I suggest to you, Sir, that it does neither, and is more about the people imposing the rules than the ruled..

[Ocean1]

Laudable aims, of course.

Please explain how dressing the kids like 1930's brownshirts, and making them march, and policing the length of their goddamn hair achieves those laudable goals. I suggest to you, Sir, that it does neither, and is more about the people imposing the rules than the ruled..

Probably. And feel free to get as pissy at the relevance or provenance of the rule as you like, but the rule itself is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you enforce it.

Because if you're not going to enforce it then there's no point in having it. And as you might have noticed, for every rule there's a whole bunch of citizens that don't believe the rule has relevance to them. Should we arsehole those rules too? Or are you going to get more specific? Are you going to just say "Oh that's OK then, as long as you genuinely think that rule doesn't apply to you personally then feel free to do whatever you like"?

I don't think so. It doesn't matter what the rules are, adolescent boys will break them, and unless you teach them otherwise they will continue to break more of them. Might be good for long term business, but I believe the general idea most have is that they don't want a nation of criminals.

[oldrider]

This whole nation is awash with redundant ridiculous rules and laws ... time for a clean out IMHO! :yes:

[buggerit]

This whole nation is awash with redundant ridiculous rules and laws and lawyers ... time for a clean out IMHO! :yes:

fixed that for ya:lol:

[mashman]

You must really enjoy being wrong, anyone else would get sick of the ridicule.

The rules aren't stupid, they're there to effect a change in adolescent behaviour to that required of an adult.

Adults that contribute positively to society, rather than themselves.

Adults that don't steal your shit.

Adults that don't rape your daughter.

You have nothing to ridicule me with.

:killingme HEIL.

I do that.

I do that too.

I do that too.

I had hair longer than my shirt. Your argument, as per usual, is full of shite.

[swbarnett]

You must really enjoy being wrong, anyone else would get sick of the ridicule.
I'm sure that the likes of Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela were sick of the ridicule. That didn't stop them standing up for what they believed in.


The rules aren't stupid, they're there to effect a change in adolescent behaviour to that required of an adult.
How about producing adults that can think for themselves?


Adults that contribute positively to society, rather than themselves.
How about both? What you want are conformists. I thought that as a motorcyclist you'd understand how necessary it is to have non-conformists in society.


Adults that don't steal your shit.
Anyone with a sense of right and wrong would suit this point. You don't have to be someone that blindly follows stupid rules.


Adults that don't rape your daughter.
Boy, now your really reaching. See above.

[swbarnett]

the rule itself is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you enforce it.
Tell that to any of a number of oppressed masses throughout the centuries. Nuremberg sprung immediately to mind when I read that.

[Woodman]

Um its a school, school learning is theoretical to arm the pupils with a basic understanding of stuff that they may use when they get out into the real world. The hair rule is just another theory to teach the students about how life is on the outside.

Anyway the boy is in the 1st XV, so should be able to do what the fuck he likes. Unless the world has gone topsy turvy and rugger isn't compulsory anymore.

[jasonu]

If you have nice tits and a bit of a personality we will be looking for a receptionist/coffee maker in the near-ish future. You need to be good with the customers, able to do the secretary thing, and willing to relieve my midafternoon urges. If interested shoot me a PM.

Do you have to supply your own boat and motor and be willing to gut fish too?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Probably. And feel free to get as pissy at the relevance or provenance of the rule as you like, but the rule itself is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you enforce it.

Because if you're not going to enforce it then there's no point in having it. And as you might have noticed, for every rule there's a whole bunch of citizens that don't believe the rule has relevance to them. Should we arsehole those rules too? Or are you going to get more specific? Are you going to just say "Oh that's OK then, as long as you genuinely think that rule doesn't apply to you personally then feel free to do whatever you like"?

I don't think so. It doesn't matter what the rules are, adolescent boys will break them, and unless you teach them otherwise they will continue to break more of them. Might be good for long term business, but I believe the general idea most have is that they don't want a nation of criminals.

Awwwwww, seriously? You didnt just say that someone who breaks a rule that pretty much everyone agrees is stupid and pointless will end up a criminal because of that? Because I think we both can agree thats just silly.


I actually do take Winston001's point about this being sort of a selfish action (in that it was about him, and his issues) but I do applaud someone who sees a ridiculous, pointless stupid rule, and then who takes a principled stand against it using the tools available to them up to and including the judicial system. And won.

And made the fascists pay. Let's not forget that.

Meh, over it now. How about that local sports team?

[bluninja]

our current staff is six, down from 11 at our peak in 2006-7. Our roster is full at present - last new hire was October last year.

If you have nice tits and a bit of a personality we will be looking for a receptionist/coffee maker in the near-ish future. You need to be good with the customers, able to do the secretary thing, and willing to relieve my midafternoon urges. If interested shoot me a PM.

Sheesh that's an interesting way to show your interest in a job...Any particular PM you want shooting? What? you didn't mean that sort of PM? :facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

but the rule itself is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you enforce it.

Wow.

As others have pointed out - that is a slippery slope - normally ending in Genocide.

[mashman]

Awwwwww, seriously? You didnt just say that someone who breaks a rule that pretty much everyone agrees is stupid and pointless will end up a criminal because of that? Because I think we both can agree thats just silly.


I actually do take Winston001's point about this being sort of a selfish action (in that it was about him, and his issues) but I do applaud someone who sees a ridiculous, pointless stupid rule, and then who takes a principled stand against it using the tools available to them up to and including the judicial system. And won.

And made the fascists pay. Let's not forget that.

Meh, over it now. How about that local sports team?

http://37.media.tumblr.com/26494ac4ab11aa83f22f251d8ef20459/tumblr_n0lexnKsTx1qmrflko7_250.gif

[Ocean1]

You have nothing to ridicule me with.

:killingme HEIL.

I do that.

I do that too.

I do that too.

I had hair longer than my shirt. Your argument, as per usual, is full of shite.

Like I need to.

And the fact that you never achieved adulthood is glaringly obvious.

[Ocean1]

Awwwwww, seriously? You didnt just say that someone who breaks a rule that pretty much everyone agrees is stupid and pointless will end up a criminal because of that?

Of course not. They become criminals because they're not taught to obey rules.

Isn't that the definition of a criminal? A career rule breaker?

[Ocean1]

Wow.

As others have pointed out - that is a slippery slope - normally ending in Genocide.

So, remind me, what's the point of having a rule that anyone can ignore with impunity?

[Winston001]

Tell that to any of a number of oppressed masses throughout the centuries. Nuremberg sprung immediately to mind when I read that.

Ho YUS! Godwins Law manifests once again.

[mashman]

And the fact that you never achieved adulthood is glaringly obvious.

Thank fuck for that too if you're the definition of what an adult is.

[Winston001]

I'm sure that the likes of Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela were sick of the ridicule. That didn't stop them standing up for what they believed in.



Very true and the examples of Ghandi, King, and Mandela ilustrate the sheer unimportance of what we are discussing.

To compare a hair-cut with the years of privations and risks - indeed assassination, faced by those three men on behalf of millions of others, is to trivialise their work.

Lucan Battison has a First World problem. About the same level of importance as having a rule against cell-phones in classrooms.

[Winston001]

Ironically Lucan appears to be a good lad and normally one we'd all respect.

I'd guess he was encouraged by his father who had a misplaced sense of importance.

[TheDemonLord]

So, remind me, what's the point of having a rule that anyone can ignore with impunity?

Rules are not created solely for the sake of themselves - yes rules need to be enforced, but rules also need to be debated, challenged and argued to ensure that they are just. We would still be selling Slaves if everyone where to take your attitude - that the Rule is sacrosanct.

Any rule is created by Humans, Humans are inherently Fallible, therefore any rules we create are inherently fallible - it is correct that when we perceive a rule to be unjust, unfair, incorrect or being enforced incorrectly that we should challenge it.

[Ocean1]

Rules are not created solely for the sake of themselves - yes rules need to be enforced, but rules also need to be debated, challenged and argued to ensure that they are just.

No indeed. In fact the majority of rules are completely unnecessary for the majority of people. But in spite of your assertion rules serve a function beyond that of defining acceptable behaviour. They imply discipline in putting others wishes before your own.

And in spite of millennia of adolescents insisting otherwise self discipline often has to be procured by the sort of discipline imposed by those others.

No problem with debating, arguing and challenging rules.

No problem with changing them.

In the meantime obey the ones you've got, they were debated, argued and challenged to become rules in the first place. There's little more odious than a jumped up young git crying about how unfair the rules are.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Sheesh that's an interesting way to show your interest in a job...Any particular PM you want shooting? What? you didn't mean that sort of PM? :facepalm:

I'm up for pics of boobs by PM, who isn't?

[jonbuoy]

Long as he was well behaved who cares how long his hair is. Not really important in the grand scheme of real life. This is the general problem with teachers - most have never been in the real world. Most have spent their entire lives in the education system.

[oldrider]

Long as he was well behaved who cares how long his hair is. Not really important in the grand scheme of real life. This is the general problem with teachers - most have never been in the real world. Most have spent their entire lives in the education system.

Dog owners look like their dogs -- teachers behave like children -- psychiatrists behave like loonies --- it's all to do with the environment they live in! :shifty:

Monkey see -- monkey do! :blip:

[HenryDorsetCase]

I have often heard teachers referred to as "the third sex". It should be funny but is true.

[Winston001]

Kids today follow few rules and I think society is too PC, allowing them in general to get away with too much. I love rebellion in the right circumstance, this haircut case was not it.

In a nutshell. There are few rules and lots of "rights".

Leaving that aside, Luc attends a Catholic secondary school which is allowed to make tighter rules than a state school. If he doesn't like one particular rule he is entitled to move to the state school a few hundred yards down the road. Simple solution, no breach of his rights, everyone's dignity upheld.

Given that this choice existed, the court case is an empty victory.

[jonbuoy]

In a nutshell. There are few rules and lots of "rights".

Leaving that aside, Luc attends a Catholic secondary school which is allowed to make tighter rules than a state school. If he doesn't like one particular rule he is entitled to move to the state school a few hundred yards down the road. Simple solution, no breach of his rights, everyone's dignity upheld.

Given that this choice existed, the court case is an empty victory.

Is Jesus the only one allowed long hair in a Catholic school??

[avgas]

Is Jesus the only one allowed long hair in a Catholic school??
Which scripture said he had long hair? If its anything post MKJ there is a very strong chance it is not only wrong......it's lies.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

and I am not even Christian......I am just not stupid enough to believe that the English were that great at translation.
I mean look how fucked up the Treaty was between translations.

[avgas]

incorrect. The school shouldn't have been a bunch of fascists. the principal and the board should be sacked and also prosecuted for wasting taxpayers goddamn money.

Pointless, futile, absolute waste of time, effort and energy. School uniforms are instruments of fascism, and school teachers are, almost without exception, power crazed, terrible human beings. They got exactly what they deserved. Fuck them.
If only we could just lets kids out into a field to run around and play with each other. What a wonderful way to teach them.............man.

Seriously - having met some kids that do anything to go to school. I think Kiwi kids are a bunch of pussies if they can't cut their precious hair to go to school.

Chances are their goals in life and somewhat limited, to an ever dwindling attention span.

It is a shame to have a resource wasted on the ignorant.

[jonbuoy]

Which scripture said he had long hair? If its anything post MKJ there is a very strong chance it is not only wrong......it's lies.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

and I am not even Christian......I am just not stupid enough to believe that the English were that great at translation.
I mean look how fucked up the Treaty was between translations.

It must be true - every picture I've seen of him and his dad they both have long hair.....

[HenryDorsetCase]

If only we could just lets kids out into a field to run around and play with each other. What a wonderful way to teach them.............man.

Seriously - having met some kids that do anything to go to school. I think Kiwi kids are a bunch of pussies if they can't cut their precious hair to go to school.

Chances are their goals in life and somewhat limited, to an ever dwindling attention span.

It is a shame to have a resource wasted on the ignorant.

that made zero sense. Have another go.

[The Pastor]

if i were the kid i'd get a haircut after the costs have been paid, just to rub it in haha

[neels]

I guess this evens things out a bit, from the taxpayer perspective anyway.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10266122/Mum-ordered-to-pay-school-25-000-over-cannabis-case

So long hair good, smoking weed bad, seems only half of the hippie lifestyle is acceptable...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I guess this evens things out a bit, from the taxpayer perspective anyway.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10266122/Mum-ordered-to-pay-school-25-000-over-cannabis-case

So long hair good, smoking weed bad, seems only half of the hippie lifestyle is acceptable...

I don't have an issue with that outcome.

[oldrider]

The long hair was not the judgement it was that "custom and practice" had been established and nothing had changed except the "headmaster"!

The headmaster should have re-established his meaning of the "subjective" ruling and given time for an adjustment to be made.

He did not do that and that was his mistake! ...................... Goodbye Mr headmaster! :rolleyes:

[Ocean1]

The long hair was not the judgement it was that "custom and practice" had been established and nothing had changed except the "headmaster"!

The headmaster should have re-established his meaning of the "subjective" ruling and given time for an adjustment to be made.

He did not do that and that was his mistake! ...................... Goodbye Mr headmaster! :rolleyes:

A technicality.

Watch as education institutions all over the country first institute legal support budgets and then blow them to smithereens.

[oldrider]

A technicality.

Watch as education institutions all over the country first institute legal support budgets and then blow them to smithereens.

True! Same as employment court of today ---- "do it for the Judge" ... or do it at your peril. :eek: (It's what the Lawyers and Judges call "growing the business"!) :rolleyes:

[avgas]

that made zero sense. Have another go.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/df/dfcf255e546b6d7666773d216ad97c15f682d2ce4b4d19d2e2 a08cd42be44946.jpg

[scott411]

Ok here's a question for you, would you employ this kid now? I do a google search of everyone before I employ them, if this story came up in it would not employ the kid over someone else with the same skills, I would consider it a bad thing, maybe nit for ever, but for the next 5 years it hi k it could effect him

[Berries]

Ok here's a question for you, would you employ this kid now? I do a google search of everyone before I employ them, if this story came up in it would not employ the kid over someone else with the same skills, I would consider it a bad thing, maybe nit for ever, but for the next 5 years it hi k it could effect him
This experience would suggest that if he didn't like a particular rule he would ignore it and then after a warning or two and no doubt with a bit of a push from the parents will take his employer to court. His employment opportunities took a bit of a dive here, but KFC do supply hair nets.

[Akzle]

Ok here's a question for you, would you employ this kid now? I do a google search of everyone before I employ them, if this story came up in it would not employ the kid over someone else with the same skills, I would consider it a bad thing, maybe nit for ever, but for the next 5 years it hi k it could effect him

i wouldnt employ you. Your written communication is poor.

[avgas]

This experience would suggest that if he didn't like a particular rule he would ignore it and then after a warning or two and no doubt with a bit of a push from the parents will take his employer to court. His employment opportunities took a bit of a dive here, but KFC do supply hair nets.
Even KFC has 7 secret herbs and spices they need to protect. I doubt they would hire him.

On the upside if he grows a brain - sees smart people around him who will make him money we could have a another great company on the horizon.

But then he will think medical treatments are too western and will die of cancer.

[avgas]

i wouldnt employ you. Your written communication is poor.:lol::clap::killingme:Oi::nono::rolleyes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

snip

I dislike hippies almost as much as I dislike teachers.

[jonbuoy]

Yeah get your haircut hippies that goes for you- Isaac Newton, Richard Branson, Albert Einstein, Michio Kaku, Leonardo Davinci

[Coldrider]

One day ya gonna caught with ya hair down!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11283669

We got caned in the third form for hair over the ear lobes or on the collar, that was sex for priests in the 70's. From the 4th form upwards it was never enforced. St Bedes in Chch. One way not be an 'alter boy'.

[Winston001]

Ok here's a question for you, would you employ this kid now? I do a google search of everyone before I employ them, if this story came up in it would not employ the kid over someone else with the same skills, I would consider it a bad thing, maybe nit for ever, but for the next 5 years it hi k it could effect him

Dunno.

On the one hand he's a good student and demonstrated bravery.

On the other hand he appears to be special and above being told what to do. Precious.

All things being equal I'd choose an employee with humility who wanted to learn.

[avgas]

Yeah get your haircut hippies that goes for you- Isaac Newton, Richard Branson, Albert Einstein, Michio Kaku, Leonardo Davinci
Can't be bothered finding all. But I think you will find many of these great chaps did in fact have haircuts at younger age while attending school (Richard Branson dropped out)
http://www.thebestschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/einstein-as-child-300x203.jpghttp://9f1780.medialib.glogster.com/media/049609aaffaee508817ec165fe487519e98d16301f73123523 d1a9c42d399fd2/isaacnewtonasaboy.jpg

[avgas]

I dislike hippies almost as much as I dislike teachers.
So just to do a bit of a litmus test here to gauge your thoughts - at what point does fascism end. (insert it anywhere you like, likewise feel free to reshuffle things around)
- Hitler
- Nazis
- Politicians
- The Army/Core
- Police
- The Church
- Schools
- Parenting
- Colouring Books
- Paint-by-numbers
- Hanes Manuals
- Skipping ropes
- Voting
- Buying Nice things
- Eating Ice Cream
- Dancing

[jonbuoy]

Can't be bothered finding all. But I think you will find many of these great chaps did in fact have haircuts at younger age while attending school (Richard Branson dropped out)
http://www.thebestschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/einstein-as-child-300x203.jpghttp://9f1780.medialib.glogster.com/media/049609aaffaee508817ec165fe487519e98d16301f73123523 d1a9c42d399fd2/isaacnewtonasaboy.jpg

You mean when they were children? Long hair short hair - it's just a fashion look back a few hundred years and nearly every man had long hair. I don't see what the fuss is.

[avgas]

You mean when they were children? Long hair short hair - it's just a fashion look back a few hundred years and nearly every man had long hair. I don't see what the fuss is.
Look down. What are you wearing. Pants that's right - pants.
Ever wonder why you were wearing pants? Why you were wearing your particular type of pants?

Perhaps it was to keep the cold out. Perhaps you like the look. Perhaps it was because you don't shave down there.

Without digging too deep - the wearing of pants also is not a tradition we have had too long, and like long hair - not wearing pantaloons was a big no-no of society.

So regardless of why you wear pants now - you can thank some for of conformity in the past for OPPRESSING you of naked legs.

So grow you hair long, don't wear pant's.
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/William-Wallace-kilts-647330_499_461.jpg
Fight the system.

Or just put up with the fact that every now and then we do things to make others happy - and get on the fuck with the rest of our lives.

The choice is up to you.

[jonbuoy]

Look down. What are you wearing. Pants that's right - pants.
Ever wonder why you were wearing pants? Why you were wearing your particular type of pants?

Perhaps it was to keep the cold out. Perhaps you like the look. Perhaps it was because you don't shave down there.

Without digging too deep - the wearing of pants also is not a tradition we have had too long, and like long hair - not wearing pantaloons was a big no-no of society.

So regardless of why you wear pants now - you can thank some for of conformity in the past for OPPRESSING you of naked legs.

So grow you hair long, don't wear pant's.
http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/historicalheros/2108-wallace-statue.jpg
Fight the system.

Or just put up with the fact that every now and then we do things to make others happy - and get on the fuck with the rest of our lives.

The choice is up to you.

That post makes no sense. Are you a teacher by any chance?

[oldrider]

That post makes no sense. Are you a teacher by any chance?

Makes sense to me. :rolleyes: . Teachers told me I would never live past 21 ... 75 next birthday and most of them are dead! :nya:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Look down. What are you wearing. Pants that's right - pants.
Ever wonder why you were wearing pants? Why you were wearing your particular type of pants?

Perhaps it was to keep the cold out. Perhaps you like the look. Perhaps it was because you don't shave down there.

Without digging too deep - the wearing of pants also is not a tradition we have had too long, and like long hair - not wearing pantaloons was a big no-no of society.

So regardless of why you wear pants now - you can thank some for of conformity in the past for OPPRESSING you of naked legs.

So grow you hair long, don't wear pant's.
http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/historicalheros/2108-wallace-statue.jpg
Fight the system.

Or just put up with the fact that every now and then we do things to make others happy - and get on the fuck with the rest of our lives.

The choice is up to you.

Shit! I looked down and I forgot to put pants on today. Thanks!

[HenryDorsetCase]

So just to do a bit of a litmus test here to gauge your thoughts - at what point does fascism end. (insert it anywhere you like, likewise feel free to reshuffle things around)
- Hitler
- Nazis
- Politicians
- The Army/Core
- Police
- The Church
- Schools
- Parenting
- Colouring Books
- Paint-by-numbers
- Hanes Manuals
- Skipping ropes
- Voting
- Buying Nice things
- Eating Ice Cream
- Dancing

well clearly paint by numbers is fascism. Unless you colour outside the lines in which case it is anarchism. Or I colour in your book in which case it is communism - because it isnt your book. If I colour in all the books with only one colour then clearly that is Soviet socialism. If I colour whereever the fuck I want thats nihilism. So I think, on reflection, ice cream.

[oldrider]

well clearly paint by numbers is fascism. Unless you colour outside the lines in which case it is anarchism. Or I colour in your book in which case it is communism - because it isnt your book. If I colour in all the books with only one colour then clearly that is Soviet socialism. If I colour whereever the fuck I want thats nihilism. So I think, on reflection, ice cream.

And because you live in NZ you still get a chance to choose which one you want it to be ... that is nice. :niceone:. Ahhh freedom! :wings:

[pritch]

Twenty bucks says you have dreads.

Don't know if you noticed but Lucan's father had dreads. While the new broom Head was a jerk, it was the dreadlocked dad who brought in the lawyers.
Coiffure could be disproportionately important to him. More important than hirsute hygiene anyway?

Had cause to visit a local high school a couple of decades ago. The school photos were interesting, each successive year in the late sixties and into the seventies the hair got bigger and bigger. No doubt the early adopters who found themselves ahead of the curve had their problems in the sixties.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't know if you noticed but Lucan's father had dreads. While the new broom Head was a jerk, it was the dreadlocked dad who brought in the lawyers.
Coiffure could be disproportionately important to him. More important than hirsute hygiene anyway?

Had cause to visit a local high school a couple of decades ago. The school photos were interesting, each successive year in the late sixties and into the seventies the hair got bigger and bigger. No doubt the early adopters who found themselves ahead of the curve had their problems in the sixties.

If he had dreadlocks he might be an actual Rastafarian. In which case it has religious significance - like the left hand of John the
Baptist:


Kinda like Finn's shop, all this stuff just jumbled in there, big diamonds, swords, the left hand of John the Baptist...'
`Like in a support vat?'
`Nah. Dead. Got it inside this brass hand thing, little hatch on the side so the Christians could kiss it for luck. Got it off the Christians about a million years ago, and they never dust the goddam thing, cause it's an infidel relic.'

and LUcan is a young Lion of Zion.

[Berries]

Don't know if you noticed but Lucan's father had dreads. While the new broom Head was a jerk, it was the dreadlocked dad who brought in the lawyers.
Coiffure could be disproportionately important to him. More important than hirsute hygiene anyway?
it did not escape my attention that mother and father liked the attention and perhaps had a bit of spare time on their hands. Most lads that age would either conform and get on with it until they can leave school and express themselves freely or be happy to get expelled and give the headmaster the finger. To actually fight the rules you signed up to sounds ridiculous to me, which is why I wouldn't employ him. I think dear old daddy was behind the whole thing which saddens me because it is a gross generalisation about loafers with dreadlocks.

[TheDemonLord]

it did not escape my attention that mother and father liked the attention and perhaps had a bit of spare time on their hands. Most lads that age would either conform and get on with it until they can leave school and express themselves freely or be happy to get expelled and give the headmaster the finger. To actually fight the rules you signed up to sounds ridiculous to me, which is why I wouldn't employ him. I think dear old daddy was behind the whole thing which saddens me because it is a gross generalisation about loafers with dreadlocks.

So then, say a new police Chief came into power and decided without the Law being changed that they were going to ticket people for going over the suggested speed for marked corners.

Would you challenge this change? If the answer is yes then you are in the exact same situation that Lucan was - afterall, you can choose to hand in your licence or move to another country.

I will concede to you if you would hold yourself to the same standards that you set for Lucan - that were the above scenario to occur, you would move country or revoke your licence or conform to the Police's decision (even though it isn't backed up by the Law)

However I suspect in my Scenerio you would either ignore the Police changes, or challenge them as unlawful.

[neels]

So then, say a new police Chief came into power and decided without the Law being changed that they were going to ticket people for going over the suggested speed for marked corners.

Something like the police applying a 4kmh tolerance over holiday weekends, where previously they have allowed a 10kmh tolerance?

Custom and practice has been mentioned a few times as justification for challenging enforcement the school rules, on that logic it would be a valid defence to a speeding ticket for 108kmh.

In practice I think the answer would be that the law is the law, and we are choosing to enforce it even though we haven't previously, suck it up and pay the fine.

[TheDemonLord]

Something like the police applying a 4kmh tolerance over holiday weekends, where previously they have allowed a 10kmh tolerance?

Custom and practice has been mentioned a few times as justification for challenging enforcement the school rules, on that logic it would be a valid defence to a speeding ticket for 108kmh.

In practice I think the answer would be that the law is the law, and we are choosing to enforce it even though we haven't previously, suck it up and pay the fine.

Correct about the 4 Kph tolerance - how many of you haven't protested in some way shape or form about this?

however the Law for Speeding is very clear - everything over 100 kph is speeding, the police choosing not to enforce is a slightly different scenario. In Lucans case he wore his hair in a way that satisfied the rule (hair was not in his eyes and was off his collar) which is why I wrote my scenario - one can ride around a 55 kph posted corner in a 100 kph zone faster than 55 kph but without going over 100 kph....

[PrincessBandit]

As a teacher (high school) I see "rules" being walked over all the time. Many of them are, in my opinion, comparatively trivial and almost impossible to enforce en masse.

My rule of thumb is the same as when my kids were growing up - as few rules as possible, but those few were non-negotiable and NOT based on some random whimsy.

[TheDemonLord]

As a teacher (high school) I see "rules" being walked over all the time. Many of them are, in my opinion, comparatively trivial and almost impossible to enforce en masse.

My rule of thumb is the same as when my kids were growing up - as few rules as possible, but those few were non-negotiable and NOT based on some random whimsy.

This.

Completely this.

[Banditbandit]

As a teacher (high school) I see "rules" being walked over all the time. Many of them are, in my opinion, comparatively trivial and almost impossible to enforce en masse.

My rule of thumb is the same as when my kids were growing up - as few rules as possible, but those few were non-negotiable and NOT based on some random whimsy.

+1 (and 10 chars)

I can't believe that after 50 years hair length is still an issue in schools .. and I can't believe that KBers have wasted nine pages (so far)on this bullshit discussion.

[HenryDorsetCase]

+1 (and 10 chars)

I can't believe that after 50 years hair length is still an issue in schools .. and I can't believe that KBers have wasted nine pages (so far)on this bullshit discussion.

those of us that had aawful school experiences are using it to give the school a kicking, a message of which I approve.

[swbarnett]

Something like the police applying a 4kmh tolerance over holiday weekends, where previously they have allowed a 10kmh tolerance?
Wrong. A lowering of the tolerance is backed up by law. Enforcement of suggested corner speeds as limits is not.

[oldrider]

+1 (and 10 chars)

I can't believe that after 50 years hair length is still an issue in schools .. and I can't believe that KBers have wasted nine pages (so far)on this bullshit discussion.

It's KB it's trivia and we like to live a little lightly now and then ... kinda like reading comics used to be back in the day! :jerry:

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's KB it's trivia and we like to live a little lightly now and then ... kinda like reading comics used to be back in the day! :jerry:

They're graphic novels now, Grandad. ;-)

[oldrider]

those of us that had aawful school experiences are using it to give the school a kicking, a message of which I approve.

Hmmmm, I always felt that I was the one in charge at school, they had the rules and the cane but I decided when and how! :rolleyes: Impertinent twits! :nya:

[Winston001]

+1 (and 10 chars)

I can't believe that after 50 years hair length is still an issue in schools .. and I can't believe that KBers have wasted nine pages (so far)on this bullshit discussion.

I think we all agree with you but its fun. :D




So then, say a new police Chief came into power and decided without the Law being changed that they were going to ticket people for going over the suggested speed for marked corners.

Would you challenge this change? If the answer is yes then you are in the exact same situation that Lucan was - afterall, you can choose to hand in your licence or move to another country.



1. The comparison doesn't work because there is not a parallel system of roads with less restrictions. There are however other schools.

2. Speed signs on corners are advisory, not lawful limits. However there is no difficulty in finding driving offences when those limits are exceeded: careless use, driving at a dangerous speed, reckless driving, driving without reasonable consideration for other road-users, failing to keep left (if cross centre line), driving without regard to the road conditions etc etc. Bread and butter for road traffic enforcement.

[swbarnett]

there is not a parallel system of roads with less restrictions.
I think you'll find that there are many on the face of this planet.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think you'll find that there are many on the face of this planet.

That explains a lot: you're a Stonecutter!

v=_ZI_aEalijE

[MVnut]

So then, say a new police Chief came into power and decided without the Law being changed that they were going to ticket people for going over the suggested speed for marked corners.

Would you challenge this change? If the answer is yes then you are in the exact same situation that Lucan was - afterall, you can choose to hand in your licence or move to another country.

I will concede to you if you would hold yourself to the same standards that you set for Lucan - that were the above scenario to occur, you would move country or revoke your licence or conform to the Police's decision (even though it isn't backed up by the Law)

However I suspect in my Scenerio you would either ignore the Police changes, or challenge them as unlawful.

They are designed as advisory limits for trucks. Go buy a truck and get back to us about the sensibility of these signs :niceone:

[SVboy]

incorrect. The school shouldn't have been a bunch of fascists. the principal and the board should be sacked and also prosecuted for wasting taxpayers goddamn money.

Pointless, futile, absolute waste of time, effort and energy. School uniforms are instruments of fascism, and school teachers are, almost without exception, power crazed, terrible human beings. They got exactly what they deserved. Fuck them.

I am guessing somebody spent a lot of time being "mummy" at boarding school!

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am guessing somebody spent a lot of time being "mummy" at boarding school!

? I have no idea what that means. I did not attend boarding school.

[SVboy]

I am suggesting your loathing of teachers must be based on something in your past. Just as my perception of people in the legal field are parasitic leaches with no interest other than their own, based on my past encounters.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am suggesting your loathing of teachers must be based on something in your past. Just as my perception of people in the legal field are parasitic leaches with no interest other than their own, based on my past encounters.

Ah, well, yes.

It's "leeches" by the way. Unless you mean some osmotic process by which the money in your wallet leaches into mine, in which case, sure.

[SVboy]

Ah, well, yes.

It's "leeches" by the way. Unless you mean some osmotic process by which the money in your wallet leaches into mine, in which case, sure.

There you go, the value of a good education and teachers that care, right there! It sounds like you might owe them a wee vote of thanks after all!

[Berries]

They are designed as advisory limits for trucks.
Not quite. A lot of trucks will fall over if they try to take the corner at the advisory speed.

Even so, the amount of rudimentary science behind setting them would suggest that the Police will never be able to enforce the advisory speed on corners.

[MVnut]

Not quite. A lot of trucks will fall over if they try to take the corner at the advisory speed.

Even so, the amount of rudimentary science behind setting them would suggest that the Police will never be able to enforce the advisory speed on corners.

They are actually

[Berries]

Righto, I will bow to your expert knowledge.

One question though. Can you explain the 95km/h advisory speeds for vehicles limited to 90? Does that mean they are supposed to speed up for corners? And if they're shit (which they are) what about 85km/h signs? And what does this sign mean?

[neels]

. Can you explain the 95km/h advisory speeds for vehicles limited to 90? Does that mean they are supposed to speed up for corners?
Where are those, the lowest i have seen is 85 which in the car or on the bike means carry on as you are

[Berries]

Where are those, the lowest i have seen is 85 which in the car or on the bike means carry on as you are
Until fairly recently there were three sets on SH94. A couple on SH87 were taken out a few years back so I assume they are used elsewhere. Pointless sign for any vehicle really.

[neels]

Until fairly recently there were three sets on SH94. A couple on SH87 were taken out a few years back so I assume they are used elsewhere. Pointless sign for any vehicle really.
Pretty much, give or take 5kmh usually isn't the difference between life and death, unless it's a holiday weekend apparently

[avgas]

That post makes no sense. Are you a teacher by any chance?
Nope - but it does sound like you hate them. I'm putting you down as a "self taught man"?
Which is fine - if you're not biased.

Me I have nothing against teachers (with the exception of pay - but I have that issue with everyone). Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Now what part didn't make sense - not that it matters, as its very clear you won't listen to anyone telling your anything. But for shits and giggles - where did you fail to comprehend?

[avgas]

As a teacher (high school) I see "rules" being walked over all the time. Many of them are, in my opinion, comparatively trivial and almost impossible to enforce en masse.

My rule of thumb is the same as when my kids were growing up - as few rules as possible, but those few were non-negotiable and NOT based on some random whimsy.
Ah but that is strangely not the point.
Rules are always being bent - but the key thing is, if you get caught in the wrong, and you know your in the wrong..................................you admit fault and take your licks.

Being caught red-handed, and then saying you shouldn't be punished, and then claiming you are being punished and you should have the ability to punish your punishers.....
Over a trivial matter.....

Well lets just say that common convicts start small. Then bury their family in the back yard. Here is hoping that he has the mental ability to comprehend that he shouldn't do that again.

[avgas]

Shit! I looked down and I forgot to put pants on today. Thanks!
Now the bigger dilemma - should we punish those who wear socks and jandals?

May be in the next 1000 years.

[jonbuoy]

Nope - but it does sound like you hate them. I'm putting you down as a "self taught man"?
Which is fine - if you're not biased.

Me I have nothing against teachers (with the exception of pay - but I have that issue with everyone). Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Now what part didn't make sense - not that it matters, as its very clear you won't listen to anyone telling your anything. But for shits and giggles - where did you fail to comprehend?

I dont "hate" them - I had a couple of great teachers. I have issues with a lot of the irrelevant/useless rules and subject matter kids are taught at school that leaves them unprepared for real life.

I just don't get your whole "pants" comparison - he wasnt running around naked. Long hair short hair as long as he doesnt disrupt the class it makes no difference.

[awayatc]

What exactly do we expect schools to teach.....?

for youngsters to think for themselves and make decisions...(potentially becoming an innovator)

or just to shut up, listen and obey any and every rule .......? (Becoming a bureaucrat, or traffic cop )

[avgas]

What exactly do we expect schools to teach.....?

for youngsters to think for themselves and make decisions...(potentially becoming an innovator)

or just to shut up, listen and obey any and every rule .......? (Becoming a bureaucrat, or traffic cop )
Hopefully something in-between. So they turn up to work on time, listen to their boss, and generally contribute intelligent, well processed thoughts to society.
I have worked with the "pure free thinkers" before and when they did turn up to work, their workmanship was bullshit like most of their "ideas".
Sure we need thinking "out of the box" on occasion. But every now and then people need to shut-up and listen to someone bigger and uglier than them - if for nothing else, but to be inspired to innovate.


I dont "hate" them - I had a couple of great teachers. I have issues with a lot of the irrelevant/useless rules and subject matter kids are taught at school that leaves them unprepared for real life.
I just don't get your whole "pants" comparison - he wasnt running around naked. Long hair short hair as long as he doesnt disrupt the class it makes no difference.
You say that - but do you think for a moment that you have been desensitized?
Past generations would have laid peer pressure on the "Ladyboy" - but now we are PC so with the kids unable to do it, it falls back to "School Rules".

A uniform is a simple code. Like wearing pants. The difference is it is actually written. Yet there are plenty of places that are in fact "anti-pants".
If a kid can't follow a simple set of rules that a particular body requires (for whatever frivolous reason they hold), and would jeopardize their education to break this rule. Then I have no hope for him in the rest of his life.
Is his stand really important? I would argue that if the rule is considered pointless, then why isn't breaking it?
20 years from now - I hope his hair is still long. So he makes a point. That it wasn't all for nothing.
Otherwise - it - was - all - for - nothing.

[mashman]

I dont "hate" them - I had a couple of great teachers. I have issues with a lot of the irrelevant/useless rules and subject matter kids are taught at school that leaves them unprepared for real life.

I just don't get your whole "pants" comparison - he wasnt running around naked. Long hair short hair as long as he doesnt disrupt the class it makes no difference.

Agreed... I believe the argument against that is that students should have more respect for what they are at school to do, learn... and by default those who are teaching.

Some cultures walk around naked... although I believe the moral of the story was, WTF does the length of hair (or pants) have to do with absolutely anything educationally related? As you say, the subject matter is boring and bored kids getz "disruptive". Those who give hair length a significance should be held to account. Starting with the govt as they haven't banned those who pedal their vile hair length propaganda... then on to marketing and advertising ;)

[mashman]

If a kid can't follow a simple set of rules that a particular body requires (for whatever frivolous reason they hold), and would jeopardize their education to break this rule. Then I have no hope for him in the rest of his life.

20 years from now - I hope his hair is still long. So he makes a point. That it wasn't all for nothing.
Otherwise - it - was - all - for - nothing.

I do :D... innovator in the making :yes:

In my case, I ended up growing my hair to the middle of my back before noticing the Phil Collins affect on a security camera, and then heading home for a bath and a pair of scissors. But it wasn't all for nothing :D.

[jonbuoy]

Hopefully something in-between. So they turn up to work on time, listen to their boss, and generally contribute intelligent, well processed thoughts to society.
I have worked with the "pure free thinkers" before and when they did turn up to work, their workmanship was bullshit like most of their "ideas".
Sure we need thinking "out of the box" on occasion. But every now and then people need to shut-up and listen to someone bigger and uglier than them - if for nothing else, but to be inspired to innovate.


You say that - but do you think for a moment that you have been desensitized?
Past generations would have laid peer pressure on the "Ladyboy" - but now we are PC so with the kids unable to do it, it falls back to "School Rules".

A uniform is a simple code. Like wearing pants. The difference is it is actually written. Yet there are plenty of places that are in fact "anti-pants".
If a kid can't follow a simple set of rules that a particular body requires (for whatever frivolous reason they hold), and would jeopardize their education to break this rule. Then I have no hope for him in the rest of his life.
Is his stand really important? I would argue that if the rule is considered pointless, then why isn't breaking it?
20 years from now - I hope his hair is still long. So he makes a point. That it wasn't all for nothing.
Otherwise - it - was - all - for - nothing.

A set of rules laid out by other people which serve no purpose. I guess the same could be said for gay/lesbians back in the day - conform to peer/institutional pressure. Thank god we have moved on from those times.

You seem to have been brainwashed into thinking long hair means undisciplined - I would rather live and work with long haired hippies than skin head biggots.

The education system should try and keep up if not stay ahead of modern forward thinking beliefs- not be stuck in the dark ages.

I wouldnt send my kids to a school that was so hung up on teaching about the big boogie man in the sky anyway.

[swbarnett]

That explains a lot: you're a Stonecutter!
You'll have to explain that to me. The video has been deleted.

[swbarnett]

If a kid can't follow a simple set of rules that a particular body requires (for whatever frivolous reason they hold)
This is where you're going wrong. He was following the rule as it was written. It was the new principle that read something in the rule that simply doesn't exist.

[unstuck]

You'll have to explain that to me. The video has been deleted.

Stonecutters is a reference to an episode of The simpsons, where Homer joins a secret society. Basically a pisstake of the freemasons I think. :wacko:

[swbarnett]

Stonecutters is a reference to an episode of The simpsons, where Homer joins a secret society. Basically a pisstake of the freemasons I think. :wacko:
Yeah, I know the one. Can't quite see the relevance though.

[unstuck]

Yeah, I know the one. Can't quite see the relevance though.

Tis KB, does there have to be any sort of relevance? :shutup:

[swbarnett]

Tis KB, does there have to be any sort of relevance? :shutup:
Excellent point. I am definitely guilty of taking KB far too seriously at times.

[Maki]

As far as I am concerned the headmaster should pay the money out of his own pocket for being an intractable and unreasonable twat, and a poor example to all and sundry. Good on those who stand up to poorly formulated and arbitrarily enforced rules. If there was more of them we would all be a whole lot better off and there would be less nonsense going on in the world such as wars, etc.