My strange start-up issue that no-one seems to be able to solve

[RoseZXR]

i have a very strange start up issue, my bike will start cold in neutral with a bit of choke, easy as pie.

but when i go to start it after its warmed up, no matter how many forms of choke and throttle combinations the bike with not start in neutral, but the strange thing is it will start when i put it in first gear, easy as.

why would this be that i have to start in first gear after it has been warmed but it won't start in neutral.

very strange.

has anyone come across this problem before or know what might be the issue?

cheers.

[hayd3n]

sounds like a clutch issue

[RoseZXR]

doesn't make sense to be a clutch issue . . . . .
when i start the bike in neutral when warm it tries to start but just won't catch, put into first and it starts first go.

even if it was the clutch, it has been adjusted multiple time with no change in starting pattern.

[avgas]

When was the bike last serviced? You would be surprised how many fuckups I have fixed by simply running a clean oil and checking electrical connections.
(and yes I have had your exact problem - but mine was a false alert as it turn out battery connection was dodgy. When I clicked into first I shifted my weight and voila bike would start).

So yeah - if you haven't serviced recently - service and you never know what will come out of the woodwork.

[unstuck]

Dodgy neutral switch.:headbang::headbang:

[awayatc]

Some bikes only start in neutral, some dont start with sidestand down.
what is the story with your bike .? Does it have any of those safety features ?
if so maybe the wiring or switch for those is to blame? Lose wiring/switch

[BigAl]

Have you tried neutral with the clutch in?

Sounds electrical.

[RoseZXR]

bikes oil has been changed recently, all the electrics have been checked already.

i don't think you guys realise that i said but starts in neutral( with a bit of choke) cold perfectly every time, the only difference is when the bike has been warmed it won't start in neutral, only when i kick it into gear.

after bike has been warmed and i try to start in neutral i can hear it trying to start but it just won't catch, switch it into first gear and it catches first try.

i try kickstand up, kickstand down, clutch in, clutch out, choke on, choke off, some throttle, and every combination of these things your can think of, it won't start in neutral when warm. only in gear.

[Akzle]

going the other way, will it start in gear when cold?
Do you have a gpi on your hud?

[ellipsis]

...awayatc asked the question, 'does your bike have a non start system, either in the neutral selection or in the stand?'...you didn't answer that...

[RoseZXR]

i haven't really tried getting the bike to start in gear when its cold but from memory, it will start from cold in gear on a hot day but not in winter.

i ride a ZXR250C if that helps at all.

the bike has a side stand switch, so bike starts in neutral with stand down/up, but only starts in gear when stand is up and clutch in.
bike can start in neutral with/without clutch in.

i don't think makes a difference though as it works fine when the bike is cold.

[neels]

Random thoughts.....when did you last check/clean the air filter?

If it's a bit restricted would help with cold starting, but spinning when warm not enough air getting through, in gear a bit of clutch drag slowing the engine enough to get the mixture right.

Just thinking of other things if the electrics sound to be working ok.

[Akzle]

i haven't really tried getting the bike to start in gear when its cold but from memory, it will start from cold in gear on a hot day but not in winter.

i ride a ZXR250C if that helps at all.

the bike has a side stand switch, so bike starts in neutral with stand down/up, but only starts in gear when stand is up and clutch in.
bike can start in neutral with/without clutch in.

i don't think makes a difference though as it works fine when the bike is cold.

number 1, youre making a lot of shit up.
Number 2, repeating the same shit 'genanagen doesnt help. Ground or open all the switches, one by one, and try starting.

[FJRider]

One of the sensor switches are playing up. Disable all of them.

Then ... enable all of them ... one by one.

Find the "Troublesome one" ... and sort (disable) it.

[mossy1200]

"no-one seems to be able to solve"

That will be the problem. Its a cryptic puzzle starting issue for experienced puzzle solvers and your asking people on KB for the answer.


If I was to have to place a guess I would be going with faulty neutral switch.

[Rhys]

From memory it has a cut out switch on the side stand and clutch, it should not start with the stand down, in gear or out of gear.
Mine would not start when hot with choke or if you touched the throttle

[RoseZXR]

number 1, youre making a lot of shit up.
Number 2, repeating the same shit 'genanagen doesnt help. Ground or open all the switches, one by one, and try starting.

And what shit would i be making up???

i am simply answering questions, I'm not intentionally repeating myself, but some people seem to not understand what i have said so i have to say it again.

I repeat ALL electrics on the bike have been checked. This includes the switches.

[RoseZXR]

Random thoughts.....when did you last check/clean the air filter?

If it's a bit restricted would help with cold starting, but spinning when warm not enough air getting through, in gear a bit of clutch drag slowing the engine enough to get the mixture right.

Just thinking of other things if the electrics sound to be working ok.

i will check the air filter out, i haven't cleaned it as i didn't think it would contribute, cheers.

[RoseZXR]

This is not a huge problem for me as the bike does start up easily enough, it took me a bit to figure out the bikes starting procedures, but now its okay.

I'm just interested because i can't figure out why it does this, and when i have shown people with mechanical knowledge in motorcycles they seem confused as to why it does this also.

[avgas]

Who did the last service?

If you paid for it - take it back to them and ask them to sort it. Service time is the time you look at plugs and air filters (among many other things). Changing the oil simply changes the bandage on a bad wound in many cases. Doesn't fix the problem.

As for someone looking at the electrics - what specifically did they check? Did they follow the loom around or just turn on light - point at it and say "See electric!"

[Akzle]

And what shit would i be making up???

i am simply answering questions, I'm not intentionally repeating myself, but some people seem to not understand what i have said so i have to say it again.

I repeat ALL electrics on the bike have been checked. This includes the switches.

we get it, but if we ask you to test something, 'if i remember right' is not how to start the sentence, try 'okay, so i did what you said and....'
engines give very little fuck about seasons or weather.
If you told the woman that 'checked it' about this, and it isnt fixed, get your wee size 8 steel caps on and cunt punt the bitch.

[BuzzardNZ]

This is not a huge problem for me as the bike does start up easily enough, it took me a bit to figure out the bikes starting procedures, but now its okay.


Perhaps just learning to live with this minor niggle is an option?

[ducatilover]

I think it is worth disabling the clutch switch, sidestand switch and neutral switch to see what's going on.
But the fact it starts in gear with the clutch in suggests the neutral switch is either failing under heat or the immobilising system is stuffed, it's one of the two plugs on your fuse box. Easy solution, take a pic of the fuse box and I will see if I have one the same.
I had issues like this with the ZXR4/600thing when making the loom, getting the silly system in the fuse box tricked in to showing the CDI unit the correct voltage so it would make pretty little sparky bits

[Big Dog]

I know it is a car but I used to have a similar problem with 2 of my old falcons. One was fixed with a new starter motor solenoid. The other was fixed by replacing the earth cable to the starter. Heat from running motor causing aged parts to run inefficiently.
Other symptom was a good battery would drain super fast If you persist in trying to start while hot.

Other thing that I have known to cause a problem similar was in my gsx1100f when the oil was hot it would not start. Just sort of whirred. Clutch in fires up first crack. I just lived with it because the mechs all suggested various fixes that cost a lot of money but none were sure of the fault. Just a lot of might be. Issue went away when the clutch basket and springs were replaced at the end of their lives.

Personally I suspect it ha more to do with the fact they cleaned all of the sensors and earths in the vicinity at the time.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[R650R]

I think you have a dodgy starter motor as you are saying you can still hear it try to turn over when it fails.
This means the contacts bushes are worn and at certain points of rotation it will struggle to get a circuit to energise the starter.
When you are putting the bike into gear it is rocker the starter ever so slightl to the right spot by luck, same as tapping the flywheel with hammer on a car or truck with same problem.
Think the hot and cold part is just random bad luck...