Fully synthetic oil in a KLR650?

[Odakyu-sen]

Hello Guys,

I'm running a semi-synthetic 10-W40 oil, but I can get a deal on fully synthetic oil.

Has anyone run their KLR (or DR650 or other single) on fully synthetic oil? What advantages did you notice? Any problems?

[Woodman]

Hello Guys,

I'm running a semi-synthetic 10-W40 oil, but I can get a deal on fully synthetic oil.

Has anyone run their KLR (or DR650 or other single) on fully synthetic oil? What advantages did you notice? Any problems?

Pretty much always run fully synthetic in mine for 45,000 odd kms. never been an issue. I run 10w70. Ran 40w70 for a while with no issues too.

[R650R]

Fully synthetic is always better as along as you can afford to change at same intervals.
Especially with the shear loading and slap from those big single pistons...

[98tls]

Fully synthetic is always better as along as you can afford to change at same intervals.
Especially with the shear loading and slap from those big single pistons...

A 16 year old TL1000 and the 37 other bikes before it beg to differ really.What exactly is the benefit of synthetic to the average motorcyclist apart from making your wallet lighter to carry?Threads on oil are similar to threads on aftermarket air filters.

[R650R]

A 16 year old TL1000 and the 37 other bikes before it beg to differ really.What exactly is the benefit of synthetic to the average motorcyclist apart from making your wallet lighter to carry?Threads on oil are similar to threads on aftermarket air filters.

Prob not much to the average joe, especially if changing bikes often. But I tend to keep my motors for long time and put km's on them.
Some bikes/cars/trucks don't like synthetics either but in general f you can/want to afford it then it doesn't hurt... Which was the ops original question...

[bart]

I can understand using synthetic for a 4 cylinder ringing it’s nuts off at 14000 rpm, but a dozy single...nah. Not as many moving parts to destroy the oil. I decided to use cheap shit but change it regularly.

The engine was designed 20 years ago anyway, when oils probably weren’t so high tech.

Edit. Just re-read first post. If you can get full synthetic cheap, go for it. Perhaps overkill, but it shouldn’t do any harm.

[Digitdion]

Hello Guys,

I'm running a semi-synthetic 10-W40 oil, but I can get a deal on fully synthetic oil.

Has anyone run their KLR (or DR650 or other single) on fully synthetic oil? What advantages did you notice? Any problems?

I would not bother for 2 reasons.......

1) it's a basic design engine. Not high performance.
2) I bought a brand new Klr650 6 years ago. The dealer fucked it by putting in fully synthetic. It was new, and the bore was glazed because of this. It became a oiler user.,and 2 sets of rings later and 3 months of no riding, I give it back and took them to the motor vehicle disputes tribunal. During the hearing they worked out why the engine was a lemon.the bike also had electrical issues. Must have been out together on Friday afternoon! I got all the money back I paid and abit more.

Personally,just use good basic oil but change it regularly.
However your bike is run in and not new. It's up to you.

Looking back I am glad it happened ( a big bummer though at the time) because I bought a Ktm 990. I would definitely use fully syn oil in that bike! LOL
Good luck

[pete376403]

The early Gen IIs were oil burners but the reason is more historic than the type of oil - Gen Is had problems breaking piston ring lands. The gen II had a redesigned piston with lighter rings, but they had less tension. Mostly that, combined with synthetic, led to the burner problem. Replacing the rings with more of the same didn't fix the problem, (my 2008 has had the rings and guide seals replaced under warranty, and still uses about 1 - 1.5 litre / 1000km when running at about 110-120km/hr (over about 4500 rpm). Keep the revs down and there's no problem.

I understand that the piston and ring pack has been redesigned and later Gen IIs (2010 forward) don't have the problem. Incidentally Kawasaki do recommend semi-synth.

I wouldn't spend the money on full synth simply because it wouldn't stay in the engine long enough to get the benefit. Right now its running Rimula X 15-w50 ((from Supercheap) and what I'm saving on oil costs is going towards a 685 kit - cheaper than a Kawasaki supplied set.

[pritch]

A 16 year old TL1000 and the 37 other bikes before it beg to differ really.What exactly is the benefit of synthetic to the average motorcyclist apart from making your wallet lighter to carry?Threads on oil are similar to threads on aftermarket air filters.

Sorry, have to disagree.

A 10/40 mineral oil is a genuine 10 weight oil with viscosity modifiers added so that it performs like a 40 weight oil at operating temperature. The viscocity modifiers will be something like long chain polymers. Basically like a microscopic cork screw which expands as it heats. These do not perform well in engines where the oil is shared with the gearbox because the modifiers get chopped up in the ironmongery. If you were to check the viscocity after a couple of thousand ks it would quite possibly be nothing like what was originally claimed.

A full synthetic 10/40 is a genuine 40 weight oil that still pours freely at some temperature so low it's unlikely to occur much north of the Waitaki River. Synthetics don't rely on viscocity modifiers, although they may have some as insurance, and in most cases any modifiers used will be better quality than the modifiers used in mineral oil.

The problem isn't that oil gets thin when it gets hot, the problem is that it gets thick when it is cold, and most engine wear occurs at startup.. The synthetics have better surface tension and provide better protection at startup.

A word of caution, some companies use the word "synthetic" differently to the rest of the industry. Castrol and Shell products may not be quite what you thought you were buying.
Motul and others are the real deal.

Synthetics changed the game completely but it seems the whole NZ motor trade is locked in some 1950s time warp. You will read strange shit about how synthetics are too thin, or that they can't be used in new engines. Bollocks! Some of the most expensive cars on the planet run on synthetic oil from new.

If you actually want to learn about this stuff you could start here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

[Digitdion]

I understand that the piston and ring pack has been redesigned and later Gen IIs (2010 forward) don't have the problem. Incidentally Kawasaki do recommend semi-synth.

.

During my vehicle,disputes case. Kawasaki NZ provided email between them and Kawasaki Japan. It's showed the parts number for the rings had been changed. I had a field day on this with questioning. You do not change the parts number without changing the part. You do not change the part if there is no problem with it.
Yes they did change the part. It was before 2010 though.

Back to the original post about syn oil in the KLR.
Whatever makes you feel good! You could also buy a Ferrari to drive thru town to work. Or a corolla will,do,the trick.,it's horses for courses.
The KLR is not a high performance machine. Regular maintanence is important though.

[AllanB]

I would not bother for 2 reasons.......

1) it's a basic design engine. Not high performance.
2) I bought a brand new Klr650 6 years ago. The dealer fucked it by putting in fully synthetic. It was new, and the bore was glazed because of this. It became a oiler user.,and 2 sets of rings later and 3 months of no riding, I give it back and took them to the motor vehicle disputes tribunal. During the hearing they worked out why the engine was a lemon.the bike also had electrical issues. Must have been out together on Friday afternoon! I got all the money back I paid and abit more.

Personally,just use good basic oil but change it regularly.
However your bike is run in and not new. It's up to you.

Looking back I am glad it happened ( a big bummer though at the time) because I bought a Ktm 990. I would definitely use fully syn oil in that bike! LOL
Good luck

Yet that is what new Porsche's, Merc and a pile of high end vehicles leave the the factory with - full synthetic oil. Sounds like you had a dud bike and you state as such so the oil statement is a leap. I back this up by quoting you 'two sets of rings later' If on the first pull down the bore was glazed any mechanic would have honed it to deglaze it before replacing the rings and reassembling - why need a second set? Did it get filled with synthetic after the first set?

Highly likely it was a dud set of rings or even piston each time - backed up by the later post identifying a factory issue. Suzuki had a issues with 1200 Bandits for a run - the piston oil holes behind the rings had been drilled too large - those engines burnt oil. Aprilia recalled all the first run of V4's for conrods or something.

It has been proven that synthetic oil is superior to mineral - happy to be stated as a fact. A big advantage is they are more stable at temperature.

Whether or not you as a owner determine for your bike/car etc it is worth the price is a personal decision.

I use full synthetic in everything - bike, cars. With the cars I usually wait for one of the larger suppliers to have a sale on - I'll pick up 5l of decent brand name full synth for mineral price.

[R650R]

A few extra comments...

Pritch is fairly well on the money, another angle on it is for bikes that get hot in traffic if your commuting a lot, the heat will break down a mineral oil and your gearbox will feel shitty...
As for a new bike glazing its bores, there's no oil good enough to cause that, can only be from faulty components or taking it too easy during run in (aka following the factory specs). Bike should be started and then ridden straight away so the engine is loaded, not idling, once its warm ie just out of town, ride it like normal but vary revs and gears if you can.
As for engines that use oil, any engine will burn oil if too long between changes and it gets dirty.

[98tls]

:niceone:All intertesting stuff indeed though i will continue to use good old fashioned mineral and change at stupidly low intervals simply because i like doing it.:niceone:and the simple fact that using syn wont benefit myself or my motorcycle in any way.

[Woodman]

KLRs using oil is well documented. Google it, you will be their till xmas. The Gen2s had an oil burning issue on the early bikes that was a lot worse than the accepted KLR oil use. A lot were fixed under warranty, and a lot just put a 685 kit in.

Mine uses oil if you thrash it,always has,even after the 685 kit. Keep them below 5000revs (they are a tractor anyway) and the oil use is almost nil. I have talked to other KLRers and its just accepted,no issues really.

[pritch]

using syn wont benefit myself or my motorcycle in any way.

There is a saying among car owners to the effect that you use synthetic oil for the benefit of the next owner.

When your Suzuki was new the manual probably didn't recommend a synthetic. Synthetics possibly weren't in wide spread use then. Be interesting to see what the oil recommendations are for the current Suzuki V twins.

The manual for my Triumph recommends semi or full synthetic. From memory the Hondas were both the same.

Ducati are slightly different. They used to recommend a particular grade of oil, then changed it. Not because the engineers decided the new recommended grade was better, it wasn't, but because their sponsor, Shell, did not offer the recommended grade of oil. Embarrassing.

[98tls]

There is a saying among car owners to the effect that you use synthetic oil for the benefit of the next owner.

When your Suzuki was new the manual probably didn't recommend a synthetic. Synthetics possibly weren't in wide spread use then. Be interesting to see what the oil recommendations are for the current Suzuki V twins.

The manual for my Triumph recommends semi or full synthetic. From memory the Hondas were both the same.

Ducati are slightly different. They used to recommend a particular grade of oil, then changed it. Not because the engineers decided the new recommended grade was better, it wasn't, but because their sponsor, Shell, did not offer the recommended grade of oil. Embarrassing.

The only thing i can remember from way back then re synthetic was some overseas owners complaining about clutch slip and vaguely remember talking to some supposed head honcho at Suzuki NZs service dept re the oil in my airbox issue,during the conversation he was pretty adamant that i dont use syn in the thing but hey i was never going to anyway.Its all good and as i posted i found your comments interesting.

[Digitdion]

Yet that is what new Porsche's, Merc and a pile of high end vehicles leave the the factory with - full synthetic oil. Sounds like you had a dud bike and you state as such so the oil statement is a leap. I back this up by quoting you 'two sets of rings later' If on the first pull down the bore was glazed any mechanic would have honed it to deglaze it before replacing the rings and reassembling - why need a second set? Did it get filled with synthetic after the first set?

Highly likely it was a dud set of rings or even piston each time - backed up by the later post identifying a factory issue. Suzuki had a issues with 1200 Bandits for a run - the piston oil holes behind the rings had been drilled too large - those engines burnt oil. Aprilia recalled all the first run of V4's for conrods or something.

It has been proven that synthetic oil is superior to mineral - happy to be stated as a fact. A big advantage is they are more stable at temperature.

Whether or not you as a owner determine for your bike/car etc it is worth the price is a personal decision.

I use full synthetic in everything - bike, cars. With the cars I usually wait for one of the larger suppliers to have a sale on - I'll pick up 5l of decent brand name full synth for mineral price.

Yes, as I said the dealer and the workshop wee morons. They continued putting in synthetic oil in after both sets of new rings were installed.

[Oscar]

Yet that is what new Porsche's, Merc and a pile of high end vehicles leave the the factory with - full synthetic oil.

Are these high end engines run in at the factory?
I wouldn't put synthetic in a new motor.

[pomgolian]

Are these high end engines run in at the factory?
I wouldn't put synthetic in a new motor.

Not sure they run them in but they do come with synthetic oils not changed until 25-30k - when fully synthetics came out there was a push to only stock one oil to make storage and buying more cost effective and buying in bulk it wasnt much more than dirty old 15w 40 just not as high mark up. On the older cars we found running 5W 30 makes them smoke like a bastod as the oil was just too thin. The more high performance engines had a running in service at 1000kms as they had running in oil which was changed for synthetic.

Back to the main question i would check the recommended specs and only put that grade in or close too it - synthetic or not depending on the cost or you are asking for problems which you wont find out about till later on.

[Quasievil]

Having worked in the oil industry for a number of years I can say with some authority that 90% of this threads content is utter bullshit lol

but what would you possibly expect from a Oil thread on KB.

[Quasievil]

A word of caution, some companies use the word "synthetic" differently to the rest of the industry. Castrol and Shell products may not be quite what you thought you were buying.
Motul and others are the real deal.


Thats actually not True in respects to Shell synthetic "Ultra" oils , similarly Mobil 1 is a true synthetic.
Castrol however have long been calling group III oil synthetics.

Motul and "others" ? Motul yes, when you say "others" are you referring to the likes of ELF ? and "other" third tier brands that are in the NZ market, if so you are very incorrect.

[Night Falcon]

Having worked in the oil industry for a number of years I can say with some authority that 90% of this threads content is utter bullshit lol

but what would you possibly expect from a Oil thread on KB.

this post is in the credible 10%....my previous bike ran on motorex cross power 10w60 which was so expensive that after a mere 389 oil changes you could have bought a new bike, and that was excluding new filters!:gob:

[pete376403]

Having worked in the oil industry for a number of years I can say with some authority that 90% of this threads content is utter bullshit lol

but what would you possibly expect from a Oil thread on KB.

What oil did you use in your KLR?

I haven't used any of that Shell I bought off you (quit stock stuff), still have a bit of the Rimula x to use up first.

[AllanB]

Are these high end engines run in at the factory?
I wouldn't put synthetic in a new motor.

Define 'run in', ever watched a video of a new motorcycle on the end of the assembly line? They fire em up and run them through the gears and up the rev range. Run in? A lot of new vehicles don't publidh run in instruction like in the past.

Running in threads are better than oil ones!:lol:

[pete376403]

Define 'run in', ever watched a video of a new motorcycle on the end of the assembly line? They fire em up and run them through the gears and up the rev range. Run in? A lot of new vehicles don't publidh run in instruction like in the past.

Running in threads are better than oil ones!:lol:

Many years ago, when GM had a car assembly plant at Trentham, I had a school holiday job there, on the trim line, building seats (this is the era of PC Cresta, Vivas and the like. I forget which model Holdens but Kingswoods, Belmonts etc. Anyway, the seats were among the last items installed into the cars, so I was right next to the end of the assembly line. From there every car went into the dyno bay and was run up to max revs through the gears, maybe two minutes in total. Then they went outside, to be delivered to dealers who would remind the buyers to "take it easy for the first 1000 miles"

[Oscar]

Define 'run in', ever watched a video of a new motorcycle on the end of the assembly line? They fire em up and run them through the gears and up the rev range. Run in? A lot of new vehicles don't publidh run in instruction like in the past.

Running in threads are better than oil ones!:lol:

We were talking high end car engnes.

[R650R]

Define 'run in', ever watched a video of a new motorcycle on the end of the assembly line? They fire em up and run them through the gears and up the rev range. Run in? A lot of new vehicles don't publidh run in instruction like in the past.

Running in threads are better than oil ones!:lol:

I remember when the local mechanic finished putting my brand new GSXR750WW together.
"Just have to take it for a short test ride first, safety and all make sure its all good"
Nek Minnit hear it redlining through several gears in a 50k zone around the corner... comes back, yeah its run in now :)
And touchwood over 100,000kms and no trouble with engine internals, shims never needed adjusting, still original rings, clutch etc...

[Quasievil]

What oil did you use in your KLR?

I haven't used any of that Shell I bought off you (quit stock stuff), still have a bit of the Rimula x to use up first.

I don't recall, it was new and under warranty so I think from memory I ran with whatever the dealer used, I wasn't to worried back then to be honest.
In my KTM I ran Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40, which I would run in a KLR.
Shell dont have a Bike oil offer (Advance range) anymore as I canned the range last year, but I would use a Motul or a Silkolene synthetic without concern.

At the end of the day there is NO advantage a Semi or a mineral has over a Synthetic (A true synthetic) its simply not physically possible, the only issue you might face if its a high miler is that a quality synthetic may clean your engine up so those seals bunged up with crap might be cleaned and you "may" experience a oil leak, which could be a motivator to fix it...........or not.

[pritch]

Motul and "others" ? Motul yes, when you say "others" are you referring to the likes of ELF ? and "other" third tier brands that are in the NZ market, if so you are very incorrect.

I have never seen Elf on sale. Was thinking specifically of Mobil 1 which I run in the car, and Silkolene which I run in my moped, although the oil I use in that is not currently a full synthetic.

I was using Motul full synthetic in the Triumph but due to a technical hitch during the last oil change it's currently running on Motul semi.

Mobil 1 and Motul are normally widely available. BelRay, Elf, and others may be available but aren't really a practical choice for me so I haven't taken any notice of them.

[R650R]

Shell dont have a Bike oil offer (Advance range) anymore as I canned the range last year


That Shell was great stuff and well priced then it suddenly became hard to get... Never seemed to be marketed very well.

[AllanB]

We were talking high end car engnes.

Fair call - I wonder if they come with a 000000 dial or 000025? May pop into the local Porsche dealer and have a chat - I could pretend to have the coin to buy one!