Engine break-in oil

[bsasuper]

After quite a while of being bikeless(rideable,regoed legal) I have finished a motor rebuild of my old classic 92 blade.So off I go to the shops to get some mineral oil for the first run, only to discover there aint much choice for a mineral 10-40w oil, closest I have to choose is motul 3000, was hoping to get some mobil super 4t 15-40w but mobil NZ has chosen not to sell it here?, anyone seen this in the shops?

[Flip]

Give Allied petroleum a call. They are the (im)mobil(e) lube agent.

I gotta ask why you need a break in oil? The days of these has long gone.

[caspernz]

Think Joe Gibbs racing oil, main element being high zinc content. Not like you can get this here anyway...

For road application just use a good quality mineral oil and keep the first drain interval after rebuild short.

[R650R]

Supercheap auto Castrol GPS 4T 10w40, its an el cheapo semi that the GSXR drinks these days will do fine.
Get your gear on, start the bike, ride straight away then go for a blat over the mamaku :)

[bsasuper]

Give Allied petroleum a call. They are the (im)mobil(e) lube agent.

I gotta ask why you need a break in oil? The days of these has long gone.

That's correct there is no oil called break in oil, but a good mineral oil is essential to allow the rings to bed in, even a semi synthetic can hinder the process.

[Kickaha]

That's correct there is no oil called break in oil, but a good mineral oil is essential to allow the rings to bed in, even a semi synthetic can hinder the process.
Some vehicles come factory with synthetic, it is not essential at all

[Woodman]

Available at Penrite stockists. High Zinc Mineral running in oil.

http://www.penriteoil.co.nz/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3&id_products=340

[Pussy]

I always like to run new Japanese road bikes on 10W40 straight mineral for the first 6000 km too...

[caspernz]

Available at Penrite stockists. High Zinc Mineral running in oil.

http://www.penriteoil.co.nz/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3&id_products=340

Mmmm, we'll have confused folks now. High zinc break-in oil is still common in some circles...


I always like to run new Japanese road bikes on 10W40 straight mineral for the first 6000 km too...

Same here, run to second OCI on mineral then onto synthetic. Works well for hard run cars, bikes, trucks and even jet skis...

[Flip]

Available at Penrite stockists. High Zinc Mineral running in oil.

http://www.penriteoil.co.nz/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3&id_products=340

Vintage vehicles use this kind of run in oil.

[Woodman]

Vintage vehicles use this kind of run in oil.

Copied and pasted from the page the link went t.

is suitable for use in passenger car, light commercial, competition vehicles and motorcycles. It is suitable for use for running in four stroke motorcycles with wet clutches and can be used with Petrol, LPG, E10, diesel & other conventional fuels.

[bsasuper]

Some vehicles come factory with synthetic, it is not essential at all


Those engines will make less power and have a shorter life then.

[Flip]

Copied and pasted from the page the link went t.

is suitable for use in passenger car, light commercial, competition vehicles and motorcycles. It is suitable for use for running in four stroke motorcycles with wet clutches and can be used with Petrol, LPG, E10, diesel & other conventional fuels.

So what are you suggesting, would you use a high zinc running in oil as a long life motor oil?

Penrite have traditionally made classic style motor oils more suitable for vintage vehicles. I have used their 20W60 oil (I got for free) in a side valve BMW motor but it was eye wateringly expensive compared to the bulk mixed fleet lube I use now days. I also did not believe (by very expensive independent testing) that their oils met the requirements of SAE only that they believed it did, but I might be wrong.

[Kickaha]

Those engines will make less power and have a shorter life then.

Yes they will,because I am sure the likes of BMW and Mercedes know a lot less about this than you do

[Grumph]

Yes they will,because I am sure the likes of BMW and Mercedes know a lot less about this than you do

Dubious....But i'm all in favour of using a straight mineral for break in on a rebuilt/rebored motor. Given the traditional cast iron liners and a chrome top ring - features common to everything up till nicasil bores became common - trying to get rings to bed using straight synthetic has frequently been a frustrating exercise.

The big manufacturers can get away with straight synthetic in new motors as they also use surface coatings which assist break in - a feature notably lacking on rebored cylinders...

kick - we both remember a certain ZZR1100 which would never bed rings due to the owner being told by his oil supplier that the top of the line synthetic race oil would be just fine to bed rings in with.......

[Kickaha]

kick - we both remember a certain ZZR1100 which would never bed rings due to the owner being told by his oil supplier that the top of the line synthetic race oil would be just fine to bed rings in with.......
I always thought that was more to do with excessive amounts of methanol running through it

[Woodman]

So what are you suggesting, would you use a high zinc running in oil as a long life motor oil?

Penrite have traditionally made classic style motor oils more suitable for vintage vehicles. I have used their 20W60 oil (I got for free) in a side valve BMW motor but it was eye wateringly expensive compared to the bulk mixed fleet lube I use now days. I also did not believe (by very expensive independent testing) that their oils met the requirements of SAE only that they believed it did, but I might be wrong.

Yup, they do do a very good range of classic oils, but thats only part of their range.

[AllanB]

Interestingly Royal Purple who specialize in high end Synthetic oil produce a engine break-in oil http://www.staparts.co.nz/brand_rp.php

[*Boot's*]

Dubious....But i'm all in favour of using a straight mineral for break in on a rebuilt/rebored motor. Given the traditional cast iron liners and a chrome top ring - features common to everything up till nicasil bores became common - trying to get rings to bed using straight synthetic has frequently been a frustrating exercise.

The big manufacturers can get away with straight synthetic in new motors as they also use surface coatings which assist break in - a feature notably lacking on rebored cylinders...

kick - we both remember a certain ZZR1100 which would never bed rings due to the owner being told by his oil supplier that the top of the line synthetic race oil would be just fine to bed rings in with.......

DEPENDS DEPENDS DEPENDS……… each manufacturer has different internal components and metals to cause the same end result, Wheel stands and petrol drinking. Source the original "bedding in" procedure from the factory or original workshop manuel. make sure you have the right parts fitted and if not then find out what parts are requiring what oil at the time of bedding in. Your all both right. Old days had bedding in but now a days the parts are so finely machined straight out of the factory along with builds being done with better tools that you don't need "bedding in" ok on the safe side change the oil after 10 hrs but first of all get to know what parts your using and how to install/bed them in. If I was you I would be more concerned about fingerprints if you haven't read the manufacturers reports on the parts you have put in. But then that too needs to be considered. did you assemble the machine with gloves? did you wash the parts in hot soapy water upon recieval from the outlet store you brought them off? are all the crank tolerances checked and double checked? did you check for even wear along the crank/bearings? has everything been balanced? have you got new valves that seat with the new pistons? or are you leaving old worn in parts with a now considerably lower power handling capability ready to blow up from the new parts that have fresh power to produce?? Yes the oil type could change bedding in characteristics however its more likely the bedding in process wasn't the fault…. more so using used old parts that haven't been crack tested etc before locating back into position.

Eliminate the variables before making assumptions, that way your not needing to much homework when it blows up.

[Flip]

That said nothing and made my eyes bleed.

I would only use running in oil in one motor I own, its a 1930 Austin 7 racing motor in a race car. Every thing else gets std mineral motor oil and gets an oil change after the first few hours use. This sums up my running in process.

[Owl]

haven't been crack tested

On the contrary, I think you've done quite enough crack.:confused:

[*Boot's*]

On the contrary, I think you've done quite enough crack.:confused:


Ok so L.S.D. tested and coke tested then? :P

crack is wack…. wet t-shirts please!!!

[Motu]

kick - we both remember a certain ZZR1100 which would never bed rings due to the owner being told by his oil supplier that the top of the line synthetic race oil would be just fine to bed rings in with.......

Probably assembled the top end with oil on the bore and rings. The trick with getting modern engines to bed in is to assemble the top end practically dry...like the OE manufacturer, that's their trick. I was taught to put compressors together with dry bores and pistons 35 years ago, but was still a little freaked out when told to do this in the '90's or I'd get an oil burner out of a fully reconditioned engine.

[Grumph]

DEPENDS DEPENDS DEPENDS……… each manufacturer has different internal components and metals to cause the same end result, Wheel stands and petrol drinking. Source the original "bedding in" procedure from the factory or original workshop manuel. make sure you have the right parts fitted and if not then find out what parts are requiring what oil at the time of bedding in. Your all both right. Old days had bedding in but now a days the parts are so finely machined straight out of the factory along with builds being done with better tools that you don't need "bedding in" ok on the safe side change the oil after 10 hrs but first of all get to know what parts your using and how to install/bed them in. If I was you I would be more concerned about fingerprints if you haven't read the manufacturers reports on the parts you have put in. But then that too needs to be considered. did you assemble the machine with gloves? did you wash the parts in hot soapy water upon recieval from the outlet store you brought them off? are all the crank tolerances checked and double checked? did you check for even wear along the crank/bearings? has everything been balanced? have you got new valves that seat with the new pistons? or are you leaving old worn in parts with a now considerably lower power handling capability ready to blow up from the new parts that have fresh power to produce?? Yes the oil type could change bedding in characteristics however its more likely the bedding in process wasn't the fault…. more so using used old parts that haven't been crack tested etc before locating back into position.

Eliminate the variables before making assumptions, that way your not needing to much homework when it blows up.

Reread what i said and bear in mind i'm old enough to be your bloody grandfather and have been building winning race engines for well over 40 years.

motu - the engine in question was being run on the top of the line Valvoline synthetic race oil - which was developed for chevy applications which use very high ring to wall pressure. The owner was being told by the sales rep that he would have no problems bedding rings in using it. he used it against my recommendation and sure enough the rings never bedded properly. And yes, the bores had the appropriate grit hone for the rings used....The fuel being used was not relevant as it was reaching correct running temperature even on Meth - one bonus of watercooled motors, a known operating temp.

[*Boot's*]

Reread what i said and bear in mind i'm old enough to be your bloody grandfather and have been building winning race engines for well over 40 years.

motu - the engine in question was being run on the top of the line Valvoline synthetic race oil - which was developed for chevy applications which use very high ring to wall pressure. The owner was being told by the sales rep that he would have no problems bedding rings in using it. he used it against my recommendation and sure enough the rings never bedded properly. And yes, the bores had the appropriate grit hone for the rings used....The fuel being used was not relevant as it was reaching correct running temperature even on Meth - one bonus of watercooled motors, a known operating temp.

Oh, is that what they were doing…..

I found this on the net floating around….. useful?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FF6MpcsRw


I still think she should have had a warm soapy bath…. before being assembled. What can be done to follow the oil salesman's recommendations? but to counter the effect of malice wrong doing towards the bores/rings?

[ellipsis]

and have been building winning race engines for well over 40 years.


...I'm glad you posted that , saved me doing it with heaps more expletives...

[Flip]

Oh, is that what they were doing…..

I found this on the net floating around….. useful?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FF6MpcsRw




You have lost us there sonny.

WTF has a warm soapy bath got to do with the film strength of the chosen lubricant?

I don't know what you are suggecting, personally I would never assemble a motor dry, the first few seconds running of any motor is the do or die time in its life.

I have only had one motor, an A series BMC Cooper motor that did not bed in correctly. I attributed this to the high chrome content in some of the A series blocks. All I did was re-hone the bores and took it for a quick spin before changing the oil again. Never had another problem and I still use the car on the road and track 15 years latter.

[Woodman]

The only reason for using hot soapy water is that it is the only thing that will draw out the carborundum/grit from the machining/ honing process.

A little bit of oil on the bores is all I used to use for most motors.

[jonbuoy]

I know a lot of people say install the rings bone dry but it makes me wince a bit. I´m shooting for just a very light film of oil on the rings and bore- ie oiled by hand and then wipe off most of the oil. That seems to be how much oil I´ve seen on stripdown. I can see dunking the pistons in oil or squirting it around the bore causing issues.


I thought break in oil was more about ZDDP levels and camshaft protection than sealing the rings these days. I can understand going too easy on the engine during run in might cause the rings not to seat properly or putting new rings in a bore that's borderline in size. I don´t know exactly how much more "slippery" synthetic is compared to mineral oil but I can´t believe its enough to stop rings bedding in with the force that's behind the rings on full throttle runs. You would think if it was that good engines would never wear out.

[*Boot's*]

Oh, is that what they were doing…..

I found this on the net floating around….. useful?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FF6MpcsRw


I still think she should have had a warm soapy bath…. before being assembled. What can be done to follow the oil salesman's recommendations? but to counter the effect of malice wrong doing towards the bores/rings?

Well, I just hope she is happy…. She can stop messaging me through internet dating sites or get back into my life for real… no use stalking me Britney.

Apart from that, the industry hype of a self defense issue and finger prints on the pistons causing cracks in the block? its all pretty possible.

What kind of horsepower can i expect out of a turbo 250 far yamaha? been watching Ghost Ryder and have huge adrenaline reserves that need depleting!…..

Brit, ya look good :)

[buggerit]

Well, I just hope she is happy…. She can stop messaging me through internet dating sites or get back into my life for real… no use stalking me Britney.

What kind of horsepower can i expect out of a turbo 250 far yamaha? been watching Ghost Ryder and have huge adrenaline reserves that need depleting!…..

Brit, ya look good :)

Well I hope you get some adreneline release b:killingmeefore u go blind

[*Boot's*]

Well I hope you get some adreneline release b:killingmeefore u go blind

Why am i going blind?

[ellipsis]

Why am i going blind?


...possibly...your knob gets really red and sore just before it happens, I believe...gettin' there yet...we all know the lights are on but their sure as hell ain't nobody home in your space...

[*Boot's*]

...possibly...your knob gets really red and sore just before it happens, I believe...gettin' there yet...we all know the lights are on but their sure as hell ain't nobody home in your space...


I don't really think you have many grounds to stand on really…. you sound jelous of my yamaha to be honest :P

[ellipsis]

I don't really think you have many grounds to stand on really…. you sound jelous of my yamaha to be honest :P

...I may have had the odd Yamaha that you would have been jealous of...never been brand specific...two wheels move the-----------,..............................the song remains the same...the ground I stand on is mine and has been known to jump around a bit...I'm centred...look after that brain cell...(some say the regenerative process is a possibility, good luck)

[*Boot's*]

...I may have had the odd Yamaha that you would have been jealous of...never been brand specific...two wheels move the-----------,..............................the song remains the same...the ground I stand on is mine and has been known to jump around a bit...I'm centred...look after that brain cell...(some say the regenerative process is a possibility, good luck)

Na thats jelousey…. i bet yours doesn't talk to you.