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View Full Version : Is getting a motorcycle licence in NZ too difficult?



rogson
8th September 2005, 19:56
I was talking today to a couple of 18 year old boys I know quite well who were telling me how cool "Thump"? bikes were. These blokes are "into" racey/customised/loud cars, etc., and applied for their licence immediately they turned 15 - i.e. normal 18 boys. They were telling me how these Thump bikes can be hotted-up - turbocharging was mentioned - eh?

It occurred to me, why aren't they interested in getting a motorcycle licence and riding a real bike? I'm 100% sure they would love to have a motorcycle licence - so why don't they get one? Is it too difficult, expensive, time consuming - what?

One thing seems sure, this reluctance is not good for the long term future of the motorcycle industry in NZ.

John
8th September 2005, 19:58
Because they are scared of real speed - and the fact they cant transport their P labs on their bikes - or so I hear....

WelshWizard
8th September 2005, 21:32
I am an 18 year old guy (19 on sat) and yes, it's stupidly insane. If you are 25 or older no problem, but if your under 25 the things you have to go through not only put you off, but make things mighty difficult. Only reason I have bothered (out of nearly 300 of my year level at school) is becuase 2 wheels have ruled my life since I could walk (god bless motorbikes :ride: ) and I hate cars with avengance, don't have, or want a cager license ever...

blocker
8th September 2005, 21:43
Just back from 3 weeks in Europe and it was amazing how many bikes were everywhere. In many of the southern europe countries it still seems pretty common for young people to get bikes first and then move up to cars later.

In comparison to here I can make my 20km trip to work each morning, see a few thousand cars and maybe 2 bikes.
Given the current wah about fuel prices and energy efficiency isn't it in the countries interest to make more incentives for people to ride bikes rather than the 1 person per car on the road mentality. i.e. cheaper bike regos, cheaper licencing, etc

I am one of the plus 25 oldies starting riding in later age (well 29..). Finding it pretty bloody handy at the moment given my other vehicles a gas churning turbo subaru. Hopefully the fuel price thing will help get more people on bikes.

Jeremy
8th September 2005, 22:02
It sucks getting a class 6 license when your under 25. There's a wonderful 2 year wait where there's no sense of progression. Wow you can remove your L-plate after getting your restricted license, that's such a great reward. Oh well only another 14 months to go.

If you're on your restricted then there are two changes that I want.

1) You can take pillions who have their class 6 license.
2) If you're in a group ride with people who have had their class 6 full for two years, then you can drive past 10pm.

Better yet if this also applied if you were travelling in a convoy with people with their full class 1. But I'd doubt that happen.

Also the artificial inflation due to the cc restriction is a bit of a pain.

John
8th September 2005, 22:04
power ratios would be the go if you ask me, would make the market so much more attractive.

GR81
8th September 2005, 22:08
ive had my learners for 8 years now... slack... but no real incentive to go forwards...

... might book my restricted tomorrow... just for the hell of it.

Ixion
8th September 2005, 23:26
The reason is simple. The old old old grey boring dreary insipid bunch of ancient wallies who comprise the LTSA hate hate hate HATE motorcycles.

They are constantly haunted by the suspicion, to them dreadful beyond words, that people riding motorcycles might actually be having fun. That is anathema unspeakable to them, because admitting that people can have fun would show their own lives for the boring pointless tedious meaningless grey bland worthlessnesses that they are.

They DESPARATELY want to get us off the roads completely and will do ANYTHING they can to accomplish this.

Since they don't have enough clout to simply ban bikes , the best way to achieve their goal is to make beginning as a motorcyclist so tedious, difficult, expensive, and painful , that noone will bother. Then, once the old farts like me have died off, noone will replace us.

God I hate the LTSA. And I hate old people. Look at Andy Knackerswhatever - what a miserable apology for a human he is. He should have topped himself 20 years ago. Why on earth don't those ghastly old creatures at the LTSA just go and cut their throats and do themselves and the world a favour.

Argghhhh - Where's the dried frog pills. Sorry, just had to rant there, I do SO hate old people. And the LTSA

sanchez
9th September 2005, 07:33
You are awesome.

thehollowmen
9th September 2005, 08:08
yeah, it took me ages even with the CBTA course.

Magg was talking to me about it on the trip to the pissed penguin, and I know others... on thier learners for like forever but can't get to their full any time soon because of the 18 months ( we dont have the CBTA this far south and the debarcale to get your license after the CBTA... well that's a long story) .. that's just too long I think.

I think some time should be taken off the restricted time if you've had your learners for more than a year.... maybe... I dunno.

But it is really harsh.. I couldn't get an exemption to carry my wife or anything and that stung for a while because I still had to cage a lot of places for two years...

Timetogo
9th September 2005, 08:21
See there was a nice commnet in the auckland harold yesterday, soem idiot at the AA recomended that people shouldn't start riding bikes to conserve fuel cause you were up to 80 times more likely to be injured..... arsehole.
If some of the wankers who drove cars were more competent and actually looked before the changed lanes, began overtaking etc then bikes would be a lot safer, perhaps the AA should encourage defensive driving and trying improve the standard of driving
Actually the best thing would be for all car drivers to have to spend a compulsory 2 years on a bike before they were allowed to drive a car :devil2:

Lou Girardin
9th September 2005, 10:21
As Ixion said, grey people, grey lives, grey thoughts.
Although, the graduated licencing scheme has saved lives. It just needs rejigging.

dhunt
9th September 2005, 10:56
I got my learners or the equivalent of (which allowed me to ride with a licensed pillion) at 17 and my full 1 month later. Only reason I waited that long was that's what you had to do. Been riding ever since. My brothers and my cousins have all got their learners at 15 here. Well worth doing as soon as you can.

Didn't get my cage full until last year sometime. Took much longer as I didn't have a car and I wasn't supper motivated to get. Bike much more fun :ride: :ride:

TwoSeven
9th September 2005, 11:05
The big problem with the license here is you have to have absolutely no skills and training to get it. Its just scratch and win, followed by a couple of rides around the block to ensure you dont fall off or break any road rules.

People say its hard to get because it takes a couple of years. Thats bullshit. It should be hard to get because its bloomin difficult to do all the training and pass the exams and practicles. It should take a couple of years while you do all that.

Also, I was looking at returning to the UK to do my bike instructor training at some stage. Seems there is no authorised instructor standards for bikes here. As far as I can make out, all the organisations are self taught.

I watch people riding in town and some days i'd agree with the AA and say that bikes are more dangerous than cars.

James Deuce
9th September 2005, 11:09
It's too easy and cheap to get any license in NZ. Back when it was still East and West Germany in the early eighties I went to school with a German Exchange student whose family paid DM10000 for him go through the licensing process prior to coming to NZ.

The more expensive the license process is, the better the standard of driving, and the better the understanding that it is a privilege not a right, or indeed, a rite of passage. His license took a year to get and included training on specific aspects of car control, driving at speed, anticipating road conditions and other road user's behaviour. He was horrified to find it had taken me 6 weeks and $80 (including lessons aimed at what you get tested for, and license application fee) to get my license at 16, a full license as it was then.

The graduated licensing system for bikes isn't too bad as Lou says. At least it encourages one to upskill to get through the process of graduating to a full license in a shorter period of time. I work with guys that have been driving around with funny coloured car licenses for years. They just don't bother going through the process as there is no way to tell if a driver is driving an innappropriate vehicle, or disobeying license conditions, short of stopping everyone under 20.

Lou Girardin
9th September 2005, 11:37
They just don't bother going through the process as there is no way to tell if a driver is driving an innappropriate vehicle, or disobeying license conditions, short of stopping everyone under 20.

No, we couldn't have the cops waiting near schools, stopping all cars with groups of school kids in them. Could we?
All the speeders would go crazy at 3.30PM.

dhunt
9th September 2005, 11:44
No, we couldn't have the cops waiting near schools, stopping all cars with groups of school kids in them. Could we?
All the speeders would go crazy at 3.30PM.
Actually, the school I push bike past every day there is normally a cop car (around 9 oclock) there which I think is actually quite useful. This should be done more often.

rogson
9th September 2005, 12:00
Lets be realistic, we will never get the "greys" as Lou puts it (and pollys) to encourage people onto bikes by implementing friendlier, less time consuming, less costly, etc., licensing procedures.

I note the frustration (often expressed in this forum) that many have with unfriendly rules/regs/roads toward motorcyclists. You can bitch all you like but the only way to change it is to get enough political clout to become an effective lobby - i.e. more motorcyclists!

The appropriate boby to do something is the motorcyle distribution/sales industry - after-all its in its interests. Free lessons? Low cost learner bike rentals? I don't really have any good ideas, but others might.

Salival
15th September 2005, 16:09
Hmmm..

I have mixed feelings on this.

I'm under 25 and last week sat the CBTA restricted course. As an aside, I think it's stupid that though I have sat and passed the restricted licence test with a qualified instructor/tester, I have to mail in my certificate and wait anything up to a full two weeks to remove my L plate. I passed the test. What's the deal??

Anyhoo...

I've found the courses I've taken very rewarding and informative, and wouldn't be without them. My only gripes with the licencing systems currently: the 70km/h speed limit for a learner should be 80km/h, minimum. And the 10pm-5am ban on restricted licence holders should be waived if you have a full car licence - possibly have to have held it for a year or something.

I think the 250cc maximum is probably a good thing. I'd kill to go out and buy a supersport 600 - and I have the money, too - but I'd die and I know it, and I'm sure countless others with no real experience on bikes would suffer the same fate. Pillion passengers are another issue - is a 250 really big enough to cope with a pillion? I know it can be done, but ideally you'd want a bike you didn't have to blow the nuts off to get moving if you're carrying that kinda load....

*shrug*

I just have to wait another nine months, I guess. As long as I keep my licence clean.

vtec
21st September 2005, 12:05
Its a pain in the ass this system... Effectively you go through all the road skills tests and waiting periods that most of us had already done in cars.

IMO I reckon if you have your full car licence, you should just have to do the Basic Skills test to get your full motorbike licence, as we've already jumped through the same hoops to get our car licence so we are aware of all the road rules already. The Restricted and Full Tests that we sit have absolutely nothing to do with motorbike handling skills, they are just a repetition of what we did in the car, showing that we are able to observe road rules and hazards.

There should be a system of upgrading from car licence to motorbike licence that involves only showing that you have bike handling skills.

The current system should only be used, if the person applying does not hold that level of car licence already.

If you've got your learner's car licence you should just have to do the basic skills motorbike test. And if you've got your full car licence you should have to do another more comprehensive skills test.

If you ask me I'm right about this and the LTSA are a thoughtless bunch of PC morons. Grow a few braincells, or make me Prime Minister so I can do the thinking in this country. Also like to add that there are lots of other smart people on this site.

texmo
21st September 2005, 15:27
I have just booked in to sit my restricted licence test, I have been on my learners for three and a hlaf years. Just havent been bothered I didnt run a L plate, and cops never really bother with scooters have been pulled over once after 10pm and the cop let me off with a warning.... The only reason I have bothered to sit my restricted is because of insurance and as a courier I have to have it, being on my learners makes ita whole lot more expensive $1200 I have to pay out if I have a crash and claim, If I do my restriced it goes down a lot. Also I intend on getting a bigger bike 400-600cc for couriering because in one years time I can go to main ( thats like from hamilton to wellsford I think ) instead of inntercity and you can make a lot more money there.

As for the CBTA or what ever it is I spoke to a guy yesterday about it, I cant do it have to of had my restriced for 9 months before I can apply and I need a clean driving slate... give me a break.

Monsterbishi
22nd September 2005, 12:40
I have just booked in to sit my restricted licence test, I have been on my learners for three and a hlaf years. Just havent been bothered I didnt run a L plate,

Just make sure you have a L plate on for your test, or you won't even get past the pre-test check without being failed and have to fork over more $$$ to re-sit.

texmo
22nd September 2005, 14:51
FUCKING HELL STUPID TART ON PHONE DIDNT BOOK ME INTO QUAY STREET WHAT A STUPID MOTHER FUCKER!!!! now I am $48.80 down stupid slapper Just posted in for a re-fund if I dont get my money fucking small claims court and waste there time FFS

mstriumph
22nd September 2005, 15:07
:doh: "choose to be .........."?? :grouphug:

FzerozeroT
22nd September 2005, 18:28
Next month will be my 11th year on my learners, biggest problem is that when I don't have a bike I can't sit the tests, when I do have a bike it's a sub250 and I think, meh, why bother I can't afford a bigger bike anyway :D and the two times I did book to do my restricted I was too busy riding 1000cc+ Harleys, GSXR's and SV's at work to turn up.

mic-nsr
22nd September 2005, 19:36
fully agree with the person who said car drivers should have to spend time on a bike !!!!! donno where sum of these aresholes get their licences!

Macktheknife
22nd September 2005, 20:10
See there was a nice commnet in the auckland harold yesterday, soem idiot at the AA recomended that people shouldn't start riding bikes to conserve fuel cause you were up to 80 times more likely to be injured..... arsehole.
If some of the wankers who drove cars were more competent and actually looked before the changed lanes, began overtaking etc then bikes would be a lot safer, perhaps the AA should encourage defensive driving and trying improve the standard of driving
Actually the best thing would be for all car drivers to have to spend a compulsory 2 years on a bike before they were allowed to drive a car :devil2:

I have been saying for about 20 years that the only way to get our roads safe for bikers is to make everyone ride a bike for 2 years before they are allowed to drive a cage. Not only would this save a shiteload on gas but also stop total dickheads with pots of money driving around in superspeed death traps that cost $45 grand and have no insurance! Besides this, cage drivers would never forget the feeling of being totally VULNERABLE to collision, hopefully making them much more aware of those of us who prefer to ride everywhere. Besides there is a good chance that Darwins law would start to have a beneficial effect on those who should never have made it into the gene pool!
Anyway, thats my bitch session over with. I feel so much better now! lol :Pokey: :bash: :apint:

cowboyz
22nd September 2005, 20:32
I have said for years that the tests should be tougher (and more "on road" experience) and the time frame should be scrapped all together. No point waiting 18 months on your licence just for waiting. If you are compenent the you should be able to get your licence.

Gremlin
23rd September 2005, 00:15
Speaking of on road experience, when I was sitting the BHS with John Wright, I asked him what sort of courses there were to improve your skills, didn't care if it reduced the license or not.

The only one he mentioned is a totally theoretical course done at local high schools. No practical skills gained, but it knocks your restricted from 18 months to 12. Crazy I reckon. No display of road skills but you can shorten your license...

Soon I will go do that course up at Whenuapai airbase. Everybody says it is brilliant...

Phenoix
23rd September 2005, 14:47
Yea, There is/was a total theory one, which O thought was pointless too, I belive that there is now a practical one, but everytime the LTSA changes people, they change the procudes with bikes and slip in something new.
The time period with bikes matches that of a cage so is fair, but it is a different class of lience, not a NEW lience.If you have a full cage lience, you already know about blind spots, ect so it should match the current over 25 critera for ALL people where if u do a training cource, you can have your full bike in about 6mths from your Learners.

gromit
28th September 2005, 16:59
After how many years on my restriced, I finally got my full today! whoop!

...legal at last...

TLDV8
29th September 2005, 13:01
Just out of Curiousity..What is the procedure for getting a full motorcycle license?

I guess it has changed since..go and answer 5 questions to get a provisional?..ride round the block with the local cop (Skippy the Maori guy :spudwave: )... get a Restricted license if you passed ?? .. no bigger than 250cc,no passengers,no going over 70kph (i think) the speed limit was 80 then..do that for 6 months then it was anything goes.... I rode MX for a year (1976) before going for a road license,but in a lot of cases it would have been the jump off the cliff to see if you could fly learning curve.

gromit
29th September 2005, 15:34
Just out of Curiousity..What is the procedure for getting a full motorcycle license?

Restricted points are; no pillion, no riding after 10pm, and no bigger than 250cc. Thats all. Oh sure and no alchohol, carry your license...

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/licensing/motorcycle/motorcycle-restricted.html

And rather than rewrite it all, here is the full test procedure:
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/59.html

It really is a piece of cake. You just have to ride like Miss Daisy; indicate 3 hours before turns, wild head movements to show you're awake still, drive spot on the speed limit etc etc.

The only reason I havent been able to do it till now is that I havent had a 250 to do it on. You can often just hire bikes from bike shops to run it through of course.

RantyDave
29th September 2005, 15:44
I think the 250cc maximum is probably a good thing. I'd kill to go out and buy a supersport 600 - and I have the money, too - but I'd die and I know it, and I'm sure countless others with no real experience on bikes would suffer the same fate.

Nah, 'tis stupid. Limiting power to (say) 25HP would be smarter since it means that you could go out and buy your 600 but just have a restrictor plate in until you get your full. Harder to police, sure, but a lot more sensible than the current method. Not to mention the constant war to find/build ever faster 250's.

Dave

ManDownUnder
29th September 2005, 16:14
The only reason I havent been able to do it till now is that I havent had a 250 to do it on. You can often just hire bikes from bike shops to run it through of course.

Hire one from Sarge up here in Auckland...

$75/day for the GN250...

lemme see.. bus up... that's $80
rental on GN250 for the 25 days it'll take for the return trip on the GN = $1,875
Bus trip home $80

A mere $2,035 and you have your licence! :niceone:

Lias
2nd November 2005, 11:28
Having to get your handling skills cert before your license is definitly the biggest PITA in my opinion.

I'm generally reasonably law abiding but I'll admit I rode my GN250 with no license for a few weeks just to get comfortable on it to sit my certificate. It's all fine and well to say that people can hire bikes for the course, or do training courses but we're not all made of money :-)

Even riding the bike on private property, you'd still need to transport it down to a park or whatever on a trailer etc.

I got pulled over once while riding, and got a $400 fine (that was waived cos I got my leaners within 28 days). I just wish the law could be changed so that you could go in, sit your written segment, and then you got a semi-learners that qualified you to ride your bike around for a month, and you had to sit your handling skills cert within a month.

Monsterbishi
2nd November 2005, 11:36
Having to get your handling skills cert before your license is definitly the biggest PITA in my opinion.

I wouldn't call it that, It's a very simple test, that even most six year olds could pass, imo, the Car licencing system needs to adopt a similar system since it appears that there are plenty of cagers out there who do drive like a six year old...

inlinefour
3rd November 2005, 12:01
It is that way for a good reason. Personally I think it should be even harder where they test if your riding skills are good enough to ride, let alone on the road! Too many idiots on the road allready, go for the PC bullshit ways and make it easier=more idiots on bikes :mellow:

Lias
7th November 2005, 10:13
I wouldn't call it that, It's a very simple test, that even most six year olds could pass, imo, the Car licencing system needs to adopt a similar system since it appears that there are plenty of cagers out there who do drive like a six year old...

Not if they've never ridden a bike before they couldnt... Which is my point, you need to learn how to ride to some degree (illegally or on private property which isnt viable for many people) before you can take the test to prove you can ride to be allowed to ride legally.

Speedracer
16th November 2005, 17:10
Not if they've never ridden a bike before they couldnt... Which is my point, you need to learn how to ride to some degree (illegally or on private property which isnt viable for many people) before you can take the test to prove you can ride to be allowed to ride legally.

I dunno, I had my first taste of a bike on a trail bike and did serious riding on a mountainbike for a few years before that. I later went and did the handling course with a guy in wellington who charged a flat fee for 'as long as it takes to pass'. He also said he likes to see people pass the test better than the regulations say, so he said 'although you've passed see if you can do it in (harder time)'. I didn't find it hard, and because there was no time pressure I got in a lot of practice, I think it ended up taking 2 hours and was a lot of fun. Definitely the way to go.

I take it in other places it's a you get one try and a pass/fail or something? How do other testers do it?

terbang
16th November 2005, 19:17
Did my NZ bike licence at age 15 in 1975, it went something like this, after cutting my teeth on my old man's farmbike in all the mud and shit (he still hasn't forgiven me for wrecking his bike), I wrote an Exam and got a provisional licence. For a minimum of 6 weeks (I think) I had to display an L sticker on my plate and carry no passenger (that was about all, if I remember right). After 6 weeks out there on the road I fronted up, was asked 5 oral questions and the local rozzer followed me around the block making sure I did all the appropriate hand signals & so on. Once issued with a full licence and went down the road and purchased a RD-350 followed a few months later by an H2-750. In hind sight it was scary stuff an I had my share of frights along the way with my best friend getting killed on a T500 (saw it happen)! So the changes in the law make some sense in my view. You don't see pilots going solo in a 747 and motorcycling should be no different. The family T spent a wee bit of time in the Northern Territory of Australia (no open road speed limit there by the way) and Mrs T did her learners licence up there and had to do a handling course (before the test) in loose metal EtC. It was pretty damn good actually and she had a ball albiet at quite an expense. Her level of skill, at test stage, was quite good proving that approriate education is better than legislation. There was also talk in Aussie (NSW I think) of changing the restrictions to a power limit rather than a CC limit and a list of suitable beginners bikes included BMW F650 and similar was floating around. I think this would be a lot safer than forcing some poor 6'+ 120KG guy to sweat it out on a 250.

avgas
16th November 2005, 19:44
Is a thump bike, those ones that fall off the side stand in the shed and break stuff off? Had a few of them. The RG was more of a 'crunch' bike, but i only found scratches luckly.
Rocket III would make a good thump bike. And one of those naked Goldwings.
Thump bike, honestly......next they will be bringing back 'Fandangled' and 'Thingiemawotsit' and my favourites - 'WHAP POW and ZAM'

avgas
16th November 2005, 19:47
There was also talk in Aussie (NSW I think) of changing the restrictions to a power limit rather than a CC limit and a list of suitable beginners bikes included BMW F650 and similar was floating around. I think this would be a lot safer than forcing some poor 6'+ 120KG guy to sweat it out on a 250.
Have to dissagree with this a bit, those little 250 are fine for the first 6 months, restricted however i feel should be 400's.
Or Keep restriced to 250, and drop learners to 230 singles 4 stroke or 200 2stroke.

Test Pilot
23rd November 2005, 15:26
Get your learners here then go to OZ and do the TOPRIDER course, you get your full in one day if you pass then come back to N.Z and do a licence change over and do the test. It cost me $50 more in total but i went from no licence to a full in 4months. That was over a year ago now but im sure you could still do it.

WelshWizard
21st October 2007, 11:11
Just found this post that was made by my son,sorry I just wanted to put it right, he must have been useing my login
WW

NighthawkNZ
21st October 2007, 11:33
Is getting a motorcycle licence in NZ too difficult?

I personally think it is to easy...

HungusMaximist
21st October 2007, 14:24
I am soooo glad that I got my motorbike licence in Australia,

There's none of this 70 km limit or curfew hours......

Renegade
21st October 2007, 17:17
back to the thread topic, i think it would be alot more appealing for young folk that were looking at getting there licence if the only cars they could drive were 1300cc corollas and the like, no turbos, no v8s, no nothing untill they their full licence.

i think that it would help if finance companys got on board aswell and acted responsibly when lending cash, yeah right as if they would.

homer
21st October 2007, 17:32
why do you think the asians that come here all want a drivers licence first ....it looks good to mummy back home even if there spending all there money on hot cars and not doing well at the scool or uni

Pancakes
21st October 2007, 20:20
Haven't read the whole thing before replying which is unusual for me but here's my 2c.

I don't think it's too expensive BUT also haven't bothered to get off my car or bike restricted (car for 7 years, bike for 2) cos of the cost and there's no added benefit for me. I think it's too easy to get on a bike but there's not enough difference between lerners and restricted. There should be more steps (but not too many) maybe 4? with power limits or power and size not just size. I also think this needs to be the same for cars with age/size/power maximums. I think there needs to be a maximum power for a full and if your driving/riding something with wicked power to weight, litre+ bike, 5+ litre N/A car or 2.2L+ turbo car a bit more training would be needed to get you "Full Plus" or whatever. Would make moving up to more fun bikes harder but you'd be in better company on the road.

Also for younger people what about not just fines for Mummy and Daddy to pay but another year on the wait to move to the next class. Those that are interested in keeping up with their mates they better not get snapped or a turbo car is 3 years away not 2 etc.

Squiggles
22nd October 2007, 23:45
Not too hard, possibly too easy but i think its got a pretty good balance

I know someone whose into the whole loud, low cars, high speeds sort've thing, seeing my bikes and hearing them he wanted to get a bike so bad...
he bought a CBR250RR, and riding it scared the shit out of him, everything was just TOO real, he felt the speed and so forth, fool then proceeded to think he car skills meant he was the man on a bike and failed to take right hander while going 10k over the limit an hour after license conditions

he learnt the hardway. Has since stopped riding and sold the bike but before he sold it he rode it everyday to work for a month and started to fall for just the everyday joy of riding, he now misses his wee cibby.

I dont think it would've made a difference if it was harder for him to get a license, he really wanted it and would have done whatever it took to get it, but had he been riding anything bigger than that 250 (which is what we wanted to be doing) then i doubt he'd still be here :mellow:

I do think its good how we do the basic handling skills, if it was to get "harder" i would say dont make it stricter, but go further in depth in the handling skills test, more like the courses where you are taught to ride first, but with some real world thinking thrown in there

It is good how its those who care that run the courses (or at least this has been the case for both me and hanne, not somewhere like the AA), the tester spent 2 hours with hanne till she had the weaving cones down to an art, just getting her to trust the bike and look where she wanted to be, he wasnt going to pass her till she could do it but wasnt going to leave till then either. I can only imagine how good this guy would be running such courses

jonbuoy
23rd October 2007, 08:44
Graduated system is daft at present - how does riding a 250cc "moped" for 1 year prepare you for a 125BHP superbike? No wonder new riders are put off. Should be a 400cc four stroke for 2 years. A 400cc bike is much closer in handling and performance to a "real" bike IMO and wouldn't make people so desparate to upgrade to bigger bikes, the route a lot of people take is from 250cc to 600cc which is a massive jump in power.

90s
23rd October 2007, 11:12
From the back of my UK licence - categories:
A1 Light motorcycles ... <125cc ... <11kw
A(i) Motorcycles ... <25kw & <0.16kw/kg
A(ii) " above

Note the graduated system. Note the 'learners' start on the 125cc cat - as is usual throughout Europe. Note the power/weight conditions. 250cc learners as NZ is very rare - hence the reduction in these 250s being made. Its fairly easy to get up and running on a 125 though.

From this you can see in NZ it is too easy to get a larger capacity bike, ie. 250cc & and powerful 250cc bike. So count your lucky stars those of you moaning about being stuck with 'small' bikes.

Right, onto the next part.

The process of getting the NZ bike test is a little tedious. And so it should be - to weed out those who have not got the aptitude and restraint for biking. But process is nothing really.

The actual tests and system are laughable. The tests are very easy, do not really teach you how to ride, and to be able to take them from 15, well.

I started out at 15 on a 50cc licence. In this environment (Belgium and France) nearly everyone does spend their late teens on bikes. Whilst many do not move up to bigger bikes most people on the roads HAVE ridden in traffic on small vulverable machines. Is it any wonder that if you ask people that have toured across the world they often say France is the best place for motorbikes - treated with respect by cars?
I do not think a 15 yr old petrol head should be able to get a 'real' motorbike. They should learn about the road from the bottom up. Sadly in NZ with the appalling standard of driving this will put them in a dangerous situation (but they are already).

Final contraversial bit: I do not think we want loads of bikes on the road as 'solutions' to traffic or environmental problems. About 2% or so of people on the roads ride motorbikes. Probably not many more have the capability to actually ride a bike responsibaly well. A bike takes up more road space than a car. A bike needs space around it to corner and be safe. Bike are in high danger of being hit by other bikes - and increase the number of bikes on roads and rules designed for cars within lanes and the number of bike on bike accidents will rise exponentaly.

Bikes are a niche. Where bikes are the main transport - where cycles or motorbikes (ie. places in India, Asia or China) there is total chaos.

Keep bikes niche. Bikes are in reality for elite 'drivers'. And those comfortable with responsibility for their own safety. I want the motorcycle next to me at the lights to be another rider, who has found it a hard journey to get onto a big, powerful bike.

I don't want it to be some young punk who dreams only of a hot car but finds it easy and cheap to get on a powerful bike and get out there and cause some chaos.

(quite an old guy style rant)

2fst4u
23rd October 2007, 17:44
probably the complexity and/or danger. sure motorbikes arent dangerous if you know what your doing but people dont know that. it cost quite alot too. a decent bike and all the gear is quite expensive. people my age just cant be bothered saving up

hospitalfood
23rd October 2007, 17:48
no idea about to hard ???? never bothered to get one...........

but seriously..........???

imdying
25th October 2007, 09:35
I just met up with other young guys who were on 250s when I was learning. We had so much fun ripping around on our 250s, the time just flew!

Mikkel
25th October 2007, 10:27
Too difficult? :crazy:

Fuck no, too bloody easy if anything. Those tests are jokes IMHO.

And if the young blokes at 15-18 years of age, who may or may not have any prior experience driving anything at all, find their wait unbearable do consider that someone at 25+ who might have 10 years of practice driving high powered cars still have to wait 9-12 months before getting a full license.

The real bullshit though are the license restrictions on 6L and 6R - while I think it's a fair judge to have to display a learners plate when you're new in the traffic most of the rest is utter bullshit.
All this gives new riders an incentive not to even get a license or just not display their L plates...

Also, having ridden the crappiest bike you could find for 3 years while saving up for your turbocharged hayabusa would be a death sentence for most people. There's no proper progression when it comes down to it - just a dumbed down worthless licensing system.

Make the riding training prior to getting your learners much more intensive with proper instruction and tests that actually illustrates your riding skills. Then remove the learners stage for anyone who's already got a restricted or full license in any other category. Make penalties for all traffic offences reflect the experience of the driver/rider (e.g. double demerit pts for learners) to encourage people to stay within their limits until they've developed enough experience. Remove the firm periods for the different stages and make the practical tests hard and realistic. Perhaps even throw in a real handling test on a closed track before getting a full license.
Oh yeah, and mandatory 3rd party insurance all around.(this is one of my main gripes really... too fucking stupid that this is not already in place).