GPS setup for Rescue Helicopter

[Trials Rider]

Hi Guys

I needed to use my GPS on a trail ride to log a waypoint when a trail rider came off his bike and hit a post, the score was post 1 rider 0 as always.

For interest sake I had a chat with Stu from Westpac Rescue afterwards to make sure we had our ducks in a row as my GPS was set at factory settings and I gave them the Northings and Eastings which they converted for their system to fly too.

Westpac Rescue will accept whatever coordinates / waypoints you can give them however they have to use a calculator on some systems to convert it into something useful for them, obviously this is not ideal as you can end up with errors which could see the Helicopter going to the wrong spot.

After speaking with Stu he said their preferred units are Degrees, Minutes, Decimal Minutes as opposed to Degrees, minutes, seconds and True North is preferred as opposed to Magnetic North.
These are what the icon letters stand for

h = Hemisphere (North, South, East, or West )
d = Degree
m = Minute
s = Second
hddd.ddddd is Decimal Degrees Format
hddd mm.mmm is Degrees, Minutes, Decimal Minutes Format
hddd mm ss.s is Degrees, Minutes, Seconds Format

I have a Garmin 62s and have listed the steps below to check your settings.

From any screen press menu twice in succession, this brings up “setup” page, with the “setup” icon highlighted press enter, “system” should now be highlighted, scroll down to “Position Format” and press enter, “position format” is the top icon, press enter and you will have a list in alphabetical order, scroll down till you highlight hddd° mm.mmm’ and press enter, this is now exactly what Westpac wants.

Ok step two, press quit to go back one screen, then scroll down to “Heading” icon and press enter, on this page you will see an icon with “North reference”, press enter and scroll up or down to highlight the “True” field and press enter, all done, now press quit to go back to the main screen.

Obviously different GPS’s will have different menus but the end results are the same hddd° mm.mmm’ and True North.

It is not something we need to do often which makes it very important to get the GPS set up correctly before you need it as it is not a good time to learn if one of your riding buddies needs help, you will have enough on your mind without trying to learn GPS set up.

Now you have learned GPS 101 hopefully you never need to use it and ring for a rescue, however if you do need it you are ready to rock.

[Box'a'bits]

Useful info. Thanks for posting that. I've checked my GPS & its set up correctly for that :niceone:

[Trials Rider]

Useful info. Thanks for posting that. I've checked my GPS & its set up correctly for that :niceone:

Good shit thanks for reading :niceone:

[Night Falcon]

Thanks Paul, having been a guest of the Lowe Walker Rescue helicopter, I think it is a great idea to assist them anyway you can. I have played with my Garmin Zumo 550 but it don't seem to have the features as you described - does have location coordinates but none of the formats you mention. Any way I did learn how to find myself if I ever had to and how to load a heap of photos onto it, so if I ever did get lost I'd have a good array of motorbike pics to look at until the chopper or wild pigs got me :niceone:

[Waipukbiker]

Interesting reading, Even if you can just get a 6 figure grid reference out of your GPS, that's accurate to within 100 metres, Interesting though that they prefer True Nth. Obviously, The more accurate the location Co-ordinates are the quicker and easier the Rescue will be. I reckon if you ride a lot on your own off the main roads then a PLB is impossible to beat, It automatically transmits location data when activated.

[NordieBoy]

I reckon if you ride a lot on your own off the main roads then a PLB is impossible to beat, It automatically transmits location data when activated.

If it's a PLB with GPS built-in.

[Akzle]

as a matter of whoserwhatsit, the new standard is nztm2000 (transmercator) i think, not the old geodatum nzgdm86. Then theres utm and some other shit. All basically interchangable, but
I think gdm is out because humans have thrown the planet off orbit. (thus the 21+ degrees between mag and grid)

this should be a setting somewhere. 'units' setting.

But reading a map, youre not likely to get better that lat. long 'and about half a square...'

[Akzle]

If it's a PLB with GPS built-in.

do they exist? Probably.
Most plb just transmit rf distress signal that will be picked up by aircraft.

[R650R]

One thing I'd caution is giving too much information to the civvies they have in these call centres these days. Don't go getting too technical with them, just read out what ever set of numbers you've chosen and let the chopper guys do their thing. That's if their not too busy trying to talk over the top of you while your reading out the rego number of an offenders vehicle fleeing the scene....

This whole situation kinda implies a second person is unharmed and calm enough to pass on these numbers, in which case they can also eyeball the chopper and guide them in with more info. My house is on the flight path and I hear it from km's away in an urban environment.

Don't forget the classic smoke and mirrors. The crash bike will likely have donated some mirror glass for signalling, and if the bikes toast those tyres will be good for Indian smoke signals :yes:

I try and keep in mind last small town passed through and rough km's, good insurance against GPS numbers being transposed by call centre.

Just realised I can phone my sat tracker on bike and get lat/long GPS plus google maps link. If calm enough at the time I could also authorise ambos phone number o they could bring it up on their smart phone.

[R650R]

do they exist? Probably.
Most plb just transmit rf distress signal that will be picked up by aircraft.

New ones do, they will have GPS written on box and device, roughly $500NZ. Accurate to within 15m plus they have the secondary homing freq transmit also. Have a GME one, 7 year battery life

[Gremlin]

do they exist? Probably.
Most plb just transmit rf distress signal that will be picked up by aircraft.
Yes, I have a GME MT410G I think, that transmits GPS co-ord inside the signal. This drops the accuracy from a couple of hundred metres to 2-5m or so I think. Carry it on all adv rides.

I must have a look at which options the Zumo 660 has.

[Waipukbiker]

You can also register a personal ID when you purchase a PLB now so if its activated it also transmits your name or whatever you have chosen to assign to it to identify the user.

[R650R]

The other good reason to have a PLB is they don't need a cellphone signal/coverage.
And once activated the dat goes straight to RCCNZ in Lower Hutt who do nothing else except manage rescues.
Typically in remote areas they will dispatch a helicopter immediately.
Contrast this with phoning 111 where your call is in the que with all the other priority 1 jobs like domestic violence etc... And someone has to make the call whether to send chopper or not, sometimes these minutes matter.
Of course if you have cell coverage you should also make contact that way to confirm/ add more injury info.

When I did the VHF radio course the fella said if you call 111 the cops don't dispatch coastguard straightaway as they foot the bill for it. He said typically the operator will ask a heap of questions then dispatch a patrol car with binoculars to beach to confirm your dinghy is in flames and sinking... Vital minutes lost....

[Trials Rider]

Thanks Paul, having been a guest of the Lowe Walker Rescue helicopter, I think it is a great idea to assist them anyway you can. I have played with my Garmin Zumo 550 but it don't seem to have the features as you described - does have location coordinates but none of the formats you mention. Any way I did learn how to find myself if I ever had to and how to load a heap of photos onto it, so if I ever did get lost I'd have a good array of motorbike pics to look at until the chopper or wild pigs got me :niceone:

Yes some GPS's may not even have the prefered information but like Stu said they will accept anything as they can recalculate it and any information is better than no information. Ha like the idea of bike pics, would pass some time anyway

[Trials Rider]

Interesting reading, Even if you can just get a 6 figure grid reference out of your GPS, that's accurate to within 100 metres, Interesting though that they prefer True Nth. Obviously, The more accurate the location Co-ordinates are the quicker and easier the Rescue will be. I reckon if you ride a lot on your own off the main roads then a PLB is impossible to beat, It automatically transmits location data when activated.

Yes any grid reference will see a chopper land within walking distance, not sure why True North other than Magnetic North is constantly moving so I guess True North is a constant, yes any form of PLB is good or Sat phones as they become cheaper to run

[Trials Rider]

If it's a PLB with GPS built-in.

Perfect, does anyone make one?

[Trials Rider]

One thing I'd caution is giving too much information to the civvies they have in these call centres these days. Don't go getting too technical with them, just read out what ever set of numbers you've chosen and let the chopper guys do their thing. That's if their not too busy trying to talk over the top of you while your reading out the rego number of an offenders vehicle fleeing the scene....

This whole situation kinda implies a second person is unharmed and calm enough to pass on these numbers, in which case they can also eyeball the chopper and guide them in with more info. My house is on the flight path and I hear it from km's away in an urban environment.

Don't forget the classic smoke and mirrors. The crash bike will likely have donated some mirror glass for signalling, and if the bikes toast those tyres will be good for Indian smoke signals :yes:

I try and keep in mind last small town passed through and rough km's, good insurance against GPS numbers being transposed by call centre.

Just realised I can phone my sat tracker on bike and get lat/long GPS plus google maps link. If calm enough at the time I could also authorise ambos phone number o they could bring it up on their smart phone.

Yes totally agree, we give them all this good info and they fuck it up anyway.

We yes it does need a second person but so does a radio, activating PLBs, smoke signals or homing pigeons but you got to start some where

I guess riding in a group is the best option.

[Waihou Thumper]

I guess riding in a group is the best option.

Not necessarily...
People tramp and hunt, ride on their lonesome without any issues, the under-prepared are sometimes caught out.
More like riding to your skills and to the weather conditions...
Brass monkey as an example...

(summit fever) :)

Got to get there at any cost...

[Trials Rider]

Not necessarily...
People tramp and hunt, ride on their lonesome without any issues, the under-prepared are sometimes caught out.
More like riding to your skills and to the weather conditions...
Brass monkey as an example...

(summit fever) :)

Got to get there at any cost...

The main thing I guess I was saying is when shit goes wrong and you are knocked out or incapacitated and unable to activate anything for yourself you can lose valuable time, riding in a group sorts that out.

Totally agree there was a couple of boys on the Dusty Butt with motocross shirts and light pants only which was fine until it snowed.

[Crisis management]

Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?

[Akzle]

Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?

lat and long are measured in degrees, minutes, seconds. Perfectly acceptable, but now days they want it in decimal degrees. Instead of 175d 25m 17s you now have 175.45236
(not accurate, just ie)
all roads lead to rome.

[Trials Rider]

Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?

No you haven't missed a thing (apart from all of it :nya:) no just shitting, Lat & Long are correct, it is just a format update that they prefer, its kind of like the difference between imp and metric, whether its 18" or 450mm, it gives you the same results, what they are saying is "we now have a metric ruler and want to use it instead of the old one" hope that makes sense.

[RMOTO]

Perfect, does anyone make one?

Most modern/high end PLBs are paired up with GPS nowadays. This is the one I use

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/d93YdPRFDH8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Although the situation you had was best dealt with cell phone and advising GPS coordinates like you did.

[Crisis management]

No you haven't missed a thing (apart from all of it :nya:) no just shitting, Lat & Long are correct, it is just a format update that they prefer, its kind of like the difference between imp and metric, whether its 18" or 450mm, it gives you the same results, what they are saying is "we now have a metric ruler and want to use it instead of the old one" hope that makes sense.

I was mildly confused by your references to bearings and tru & magnetic north, I took that to mean you were sugesting using bearings (3 miles south east of Napier) rather than a latitude and longitude position, obviously I am easily confused!
Interesting about the degrees and decimals of degrees as the correct terminology for latitude and longitude, I suppose it is a way for infrequent users to avoid confusing themselves with degrees and minutes.

I am used to degrees (south or east in NZ), minutes and decimals of minutes (at least two decimal places of minutes), this is the preferred method for maritime usage / enforced by Maritime NZ which is overlooked by Rescue Co-ordination Centre NZ which also overlooks all land and air search responses. Certainly when we (coastguard) have worked with Westpac Rescue and Police up here it's always been that format, mind you I have been out of that for a few years now so maybe it has changed?

I will have a look at it tonight.

[Trials Rider]

I was mildly confused by your references to bearings and tru & magnetic north, I took that to mean you were sugesting using bearings (3 miles south east of Napier) rather than a latitude and longitude position, obviously I am easily confused!
Interesting about the degrees and decimals of degrees as the correct terminology for latitude and longitude, I suppose it is a way for infrequent users to avoid confusing themselves with degrees and minutes.

I am used to degrees (south or east in NZ), minutes and decimals of minutes (at least two decimal places of minutes), this is the preferred method for maritime usage / enforced by Maritime NZ which is overlooked by Rescue Co-ordination Centre NZ which also overlooks all land and air search responses. Certainly when we (coastguard) have worked with Westpac Rescue and Police up here it's always been that format, mind you I have been out of that for a few years now so maybe it has changed?

I will have a look at it tonight.

Yes I am not that techno with it either, thats why I thought rather than reinvent the wheel I would ask the people who use it and how we could help, it sure is a major source of confusion.

I have been in the fire brigade for 24 years and it staggers me that there isn't an across the board system that all services use.

Like I said earlier they will still use what you have and re calculate it, the down side is possible errors when punching it into the calculator, some more road oriented GPS units may not even have the relevant info.

Would be interested to see what you come up with and see if the systems are the same as down here.

[Crisis management]

Would be interested to see what you come up with and see if the systems are the same as down here.

Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes. For a bit of useless information, 1 nautical mile (1853 metres) is one minute of longitude so 60 miles (111.180 kms) is one degree of longitude and, just to be pedantic remember that longitude degrees are always 60 Nm while latitude (the crossways ones) vary dependant on the distance from the equator. Latitude is correct at the equator but each degree further north or south they become smaller.
Anyway, the degrees and decimal degrees is coming into common usage as it's easier and probably more relevant to anyone not involved in maritime navigation.
Couple of things to remember:
Make sure you give your actual location, not that of the last destination you punched into the GPS.
With decimal degrees make sure you are accurate:
0.1 degrees is 11.118 kms.
0.01 degrees is 1.111 kms.
0.001 degrees is 111 metres
0.0001 degrees is 11 metres.

As an absolute minimum you need to get to 3 decimal places of accuracy but even that is 10,000 square metres of land to find you in, very hard if you aren't readily visible.

Best thing to do is to practise using whatever you have so you are familiar with it's operation and remember, unless you have an epirb you are still relying on cell towers....

[Ocean1]

Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes...

Aye. Except than in describing angles relative to the boat I got taught to use points. As in 11.25 degrees.

Don't ask.

[pomgolian]

another option is as stated use a PLB which are now so cheap there is almost no reason not to carry one or a spot tracker which i prefer as the gen 3 has email & text contactability. Little plug FCO have them (with GPS location which most now are) on special which not so long ago were $800 if your not a FCO "member" it will cost only $10 for a lifetime.

300251

[Trials Rider]

Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes. For a bit of useless information, 1 nautical mile (1853 metres) is one minute of longitude so 60 miles (111.180 kms) is one degree of longitude and, just to be pedantic remember that longitude degrees are always 60 Nm while latitude (the crossways ones) vary dependant on the distance from the equator. Latitude is correct at the equator but each degree further north or south they become smaller.
Anyway, the degrees and decimal degrees is coming into common usage as it's easier and probably more relevant to anyone not involved in maritime navigation.
Couple of things to remember:
Make sure you give your actual location, not that of the last destination you punched into the GPS.
With decimal degrees make sure you are accurate:
0.1 degrees is 11.118 kms.
0.01 degrees is 1.111 kms.
0.001 degrees is 111 metres
0.0001 degrees is 11 metres.

As an absolute minimum you need to get to 3 decimal places of accuracy but even that is 10,000 square metres of land to find you in, very hard if you aren't readily visible.

Best thing to do is to practise using whatever you have so you are familiar with it's operation and remember, unless you have an epirb you are still relying on cell towers....

FARK I didn't realise falling of the bike would be so complicated, falling off is the easy bit, now I know why they wanted to use the prefered system, any calculation error could put you kms away on the wrong side of a hill.

[Trials Rider]

Just to let everyone know I have put the same article I started onto www.Remotemoto.com as this thread will get lost in the system so to speak.

Hopefully helpful to anyone coming from over seas too.

This is the link http://www.remotemoto.com/articles/gps-set-up-for-rescues/

[NordieBoy]

or a spot tracker which i prefer as the gen 3 has email & text contactability.
Even the original Spot had email & text ability.
Gen 3 just bought in extreme tracking, motion sensor and extended battery life.

[R650R]

FARK I didn't realise falling of the bike would be so complicated, falling off is the easy bit, now I know why they wanted to use the prefered system, any calculation error could put you kms away on the wrong side of a hill.

It's not as the internet wont be there. It's only because everyones recounting their recipe flavours that its getting busy. I think Waihou is right about the group thing, on top of the red mist factor you'll have a Chinese parliament full of alpha males arguing about the gps coordinates!

10,000m2 is only 100mx100m. Factor in there's prob only one likely path across the terrain and there will be at least two bikes and riders, both being inorganic objects in an organic environment. I'm sure a rescue chopper will be able to pick them out when used to looking for camo hunters in bush.

Reminds me must get onto my project of creating a "Rider carries GPS emergency beacon" tag to go on jacket pocket and keys...

[Devil]

I have geosense on my phone for this. It's very handy.
Is it the 'mindec' format you're talking about here?

[buggsubique]

There are a few ill informed posts on here that are incorrect.

[buggsubique]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon#Advantages_and_disadvantages_ of_the_various_beacons

See "Location Detection" in that table. GPS Position can be encoded into the Hex Code and can be updated real-time via GEOSAR
Encoded GPS position accuracy is about 15 m (49 ft), however, the space in the hex message protocol for position information is limited, so transmitted accuracy is approximately +/- 125 metres

[buggsubique]

nzgdm86 means nothing. As per this page: http://www.linz.govt.nz/geodetic/datums-projections-heights, there's a list of geodetic datums (NZGD2000, WGS84, NZGD49, etc) and projections (NZTM2000) TM meaning Transverse Mercator. NZ Topo maps are NZTM2000, so if you're reading a grid reference, that's what you're reading.

Coordinates in NZGD2000 are, for all practical purposes, the same as WGS84, the worldwide standard. Degrees, Minutes, Seconds, or decimal degrees or whatever.

[buggsubique]

Ref Post #8 "Most plb just transmit rf distress signal that will be picked up by aircraft."

Old PLB's would only transmit on 121.5MHz and maybe 243MHz, for aricraft homing. Modern PLB's transmit primarily on 406MHz to satellites, transmitting their unique HEX codes, and GPS location info. Your name, phone number, NOK is not transmitted. Your HEX code is registered against your name when you register your PLB at http://beacons.org.nz/, and the NZRCC (Rescue Coordination Centre), looks up that HEX code to get your info and contact your NOK to check that it's not a false alarm.

As I mentioned earlier, the GPS in the PLB will be accurate to 15m, maybe even 5m, but there isn't enough room in the transmitted message for all that, so the position info gets truncated, resulting in an accuracy of +/- 125m when received by the NZRCC

Also, once your activate the PLB, the GPS needs to get a GPS lock, and we all know how long that can take if your GPS has no idea where it is. The first few messages your PLB sends will have the HEX code but no valid position info, but that doesn't matter too much because the satellites can do a rough triangulation (talking square km's).

[R650R]

and contact your NOK to check that it's not a false alarm.


No they dispatch the appropriate response 4WD/ambo/fire/Chopper depending on location IMMEDIATELY. The telephoning of NOK is only for additional information that organised people might have left with them.
Eg Harry went tramping with four buddies or Harry also has a mountain radio you might get him on channel x when closer etc...
They'd be a lot of dead people other wise if they waited to contact NOK as while Harry has gone bush Wifey is prob spending his money down at the pokies :)

[Phreaky Phil]

Thanks Paul, having been a guest of the Lowe Walker Rescue helicopter, I think it is a great idea to assist them anyway you can. I have played with my Garmin Zumo 550 but it don't seem to have the features as you described - does have location coordinates but none of the formats you mention. Any way I did learn how to find myself if I ever had to and how to load a heap of photos onto it, so if I ever did get lost I'd have a good array of motorbike pics to look at until the chopper or wild pigs got me :niceone:

Hey Nightfalcon. Your 550 does have those different and many more options. On the main screen hit "where to" then scroll through till you get the screen with " coordinates" click on that. Then hit "format" and it takes you to the screen with all the options. The second one on my 550 is the hddd*mm.mmm
There are also two NZ grid options which are good for referencing to the old and new topo maps.

[Boxabits]

NZTM is the standard. Set your GPS to that.
(Or did I miss something)

[Trials Rider]

NZTM is the standard. Set your GPS to that.
(Or did I miss something)

Yes it is now but wasn't back in 2014

[Jeeper]

Easier to now carry a PELB (personal emergency locator beacon) with gps capability and then registering it with NZSAR for free. You just activate it and they find your signal (anywhere in the world).

[Trials Rider]

Easier to now carry a PELB (personal emergency locator beacon) with gps capability and then registering it with NZSAR for free. You just activate it and they find your signal (anywhere in the world).

I have GPS and Spot gen 3
https://www.motomox.co.nz/shop/show_single_product.php?prod=126

[FJRider]

I have GPS and Spot gen 3
https://www.motomox.co.nz/shop/show_single_product.php?prod=126

After all that ... what will YOU do now if you are in need of help ... and are out of cell phone coverage ... ???


Or don't you ride outside of cell coverage ... ???

[Trials Rider]

After all that ... what will YOU do now if you are in need of help ... and are out of cell phone coverage ... ???


Or don't you ride outside of cell coverage ... ???

Spot Gen 3 is a satellite communicator with 5 separate message functions including emergency and does not require or use cell coverage.

Read the specs here https://www.motomox.co.nz/shop/show_single_product.php?prod=126

Tracking function works very well, will speak if you cant

[Akzle]

NZTM is the standard. Set your GPS to that.
(Or did I miss something)

yeah the bit where i fucken said it.. about a year THREE fucken years before you

[RMOTO]

Hi all, this article has been updated here: GPS Setup for Rescue Helicopter in New Zealand (https://www.remotemoto.com/articles/gps-setup-for-rescues-in-new-zealand/)