Atgatt

[Racing Dave]

As seen last week in The Land of the Free.

[FJRider]

As long as you don't crash ... you won't NEED the gear .. :beer:

[Tazz]

http://www.m109riders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70814&d=1341177843

[Old Steve]

They sure do look cool.

And I suppose no one is going to visit them when they're in hospital with head injuries so they'll never be seen looking uncool.

[ellipsis]

...none of them look like they will get to twist the throttle past 1200 revs...shit happens, but not to all that choose to ride...for instance, this guy must be completely safe or he would not be doing such a thing...surely?...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac85/motorcycle-mania/dangerous-photos-16_zps86575211.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/motorcycle-mania/media/dangerous-photos-16_zps86575211.jpg.html)

[Ender EnZed]

As seen last week in The Land of the Free.

None of them look like they're going much above walking pace.

If I had no bugs and wind to keep out I probably wouldn't bother with ATG either.

[trustme]

Just come back from 10 days riding in the US. It's bloody hot out west so I can kind of understand it. The helmet thing depends on the state.

Her in doors & I continued with our atgatt policy. Coming off at 80mph on an interstate does not bare thinking about when dressed like that but they don't seem to worry.

[Akzle]

As seen last week in The Land of the Free.
them niggaz are huge!


Her in doors & I continued with our atgatt policy. Coming off at 80mph on an interstate does not bare thinking about when dressed like that but they don't seem to worry.

they'd just sue the road makers for not making the roads softer...
although, all of them look like they could happily loose a few pounds off the outside...

[Urano]

helmet is not mandatory. there are even groups that lobby to avoid its introduction.
but, if i'm right, it's often mandatory to wear glasses.
i think it's plain stupid but, ehi, it's the land of the free...

in english you have a word for them: squids.

[HenryDorsetCase]

helmet is not mandatory. there are even groups that lobby to avoid its introduction.
but, if i'm right, it's often mandatory to wear glasses.
i think it's plain stupid but, ehi, it's the land of the free...

in english you have a word for them: squids.

Nah man, the people that OP put up are the opposite of squids.

[Bikemad]

...none of them look like they will get to twist the throttle past 1200 revs...shit happens, but not to all that choose to ride...for instance, this guy must be completely safe or he would not be doing such a thing...surely?...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac85/motorcycle-mania/dangerous-photos-16_zps86575211.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/motorcycle-mania/media/dangerous-photos-16_zps86575211.jpg.html)

is that one of them stroker harleys

[Big Dog]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squid


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Banditbandit]

...none of them look like they will get to twist the throttle past 1200 revs...

Harley's CAN'T rev to 12,000rpm let alone passed it ...

I would not like to argue ATGATT with this Mama ...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=300331&d=1409136123


This is a CRUISER after all ... he's jus' cruisin' ...


http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac85/motorcycle-mania/dangerous-photos-16_zps86575211.jpg

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Charzarding


thats better.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Harley's CAN'T rev to 12,000rpm let alone passed it ...

I would not like to argue ATGATT with this Mama ...

I call dibs.

you all would, admit it.

[Banditbandit]

I call dibs.

you all would, admit it.

Shit - she looks like she'd break your back rather than argue ...

[GrayWolf]

Just come back from 10 days riding in the US. It's bloody hot out west so I can kind of understand it. The helmet thing depends on the state.

Her in doors & I continued with our atgatt policy. Coming off at 80mph on an interstate does not bare thinking about when dressed like that but they don't seem to worry.

Totally agree with the thought of coming off at 80mph... guess that's why the landof the free make Hardly Rideitson's

http://s15.postimg.org/ti7mi88zb/harleys_do_the_best_you_can.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ti7mi88zb/)

[trustme]

I was about 100 m behind a 2up Harley sitting at close to 80mph . He passed a truck & pulled back in . The truck promptly pulls out & repasses the Harley at just over 80 mph. Bugger this , upped it to 90 for a while & left them both behind.

I have the admit the number of thrown treads that littered the hiways made me nervous around big rigs travelling at 75 / 80 mph.

[Grashopper]

As seen last week in The Land of the Free.

I wouldn't worry about it. This is just evolution sorting itself out.

[scumdog]

As seen last week in The Land of the Free.

And???

(on of them could have easily been me when I went to Sturgis....)

[scumdog]

Totally agree with the thought of coming off at 80mph... guess that's why the landof the free make Hardly Rideitson's




Pff, cruised on a lardy-arsed Ultra-Glide Classic through Utah, Wyoming etc at 95 mph no sweat.:bleh:

In jeans, cowboy boots, long-sleeved cowboy shirt and denim vest, also wearing fingerless leather gloves, sunnies too - AND a brain-bucket type helemet of course

And never got a ticket.:2thumbsup

[Tazz]

When noobies on yank forums ask for advice, I wonder if all the 'experienced' riders are too so used to falling off that they tell em to buy bikes without fairings for that end...or maybe they don't make such a habit of falling like the average NZ rider...?


http://hotmeme.net/media/mememaker/9/2/85-spiderman-peter-parker.jpg

[Tazz]

Nahhhhh


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hBMgJiXA_aI/TZ1syyRaPfI/AAAAAAAAmgk/UmVS0DJxGBc/s1600/img_2820.jpg

[scumdog]

Sprotsbike rider above, a REAL Harley rider wouldn't have done that!

[scumdog]

I have the admit the number of thrown treads that littered the hiways made me nervous around big rigs travelling at 75 / 80 mph.

"road-gaitors" they're called in Texas...

[Tazz]

Sprotsbike rider above, a REAL Harley rider wouldn't have done that!

What, the jazz hands/YMCA pose? I'm not convinced....:bleh:

[GrayWolf]

Sprotsbike rider above, a REAL Harley rider wouldn't have done that!

You are 1000% correct there Scummy,
a REAL HD rider, would have been at the bar not on the road, shooting shit, and telling all non HD types how they need to get a real bike!!! :bleh::bleh::bleh:

[awa355]

Harley riders dont crash, they just park up;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxU_lYBHpY

[ellipsis]

Harley's CAN'T rev to 12,000rpm let alone passed it ...


...misreading and misquoting...but it's a 0 so it's really nothing...typical of somebody in the education field...too keen to stroke their knob in a failed HD knock...

...a man giving a urine sample has passed water...

[Laava]

Pff, cruised on a lardy-arsed Ultra-Glide Classic through Utah, Wyoming etc at 95 mph no sweat.:bleh:

In jeans, cowboy boots, long-sleeved cowboy shirt and denim vest, also wearing fingerless leather gloves, sunnies too - AND a brain-bucket type helemet of course

And never got a ticket.:2thumbsup

What a rebel!
We drove into Utah on a 70mph freeway doing 80. The trucks were all passing us prob doing 90 and the cars must have been doing the ton. We never overtook anyone!

[F5 Dave]

What surprises me most is the dude with the sunglasses on his head. I mean it looks like a nice day and all so why isn't he wearing them?

[Big Dog]

What surprises me most is the dude with the sunglasses on his head. I mean it looks like a nice day and all so why isn't he wearing them?

Maybe he couldn't find them?
Maybe his future is not so bright?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Tazz]

Probably just trying to save his swede from getting sunburnt.

[Oakie]

Having just returned from 8 days of riding a scooter around Rarotonga without lid, gloves and in sandals I cannot really comment on this thread. Actually walked through customs behind a guy who had binned his scooter too. Bandaged ankle, knee and elbow. They finished up getting him a wheelchair to speed the queue up a bit.

[awayatc]

Grew up riding without any gear or helmet

only came off a few times at lower speeds

Living was never meant to be risk free.....

that would be boring

[Banditbandit]

Sprotsbike rider above, a REAL Harley rider wouldn't have done that!

You're right - a Harley rider would miss the FIRST corner .. never get to the second one ..

[scumdog]

You're right - a Harley rider would miss the FIRST corner .. never get to the second one ..

You might have a point - bonus points for crashing on a second corner!:bleh:

[avgas]

After a 15 minute test you got your full license here - so I can't imagine they can check for intelligence in that period of time. Not even SETI is that good.

[Edbear]

A bit of a thread dredge but an ongoing topic.

Heading down to Hampton Downs yesterday for the Legends of Speed festival, I noted a bike headlight coming up from behind. He was riding faster than the limit but seemed a bit hesitant to split at times. As he wound his way through the traffic it became clear that he was a tough hairy biker wearing shorts and sneakers with open face black helmet, sunnies and a scarf on his modded Harley.

Shaking my head at his carefree attitude I watched him split left and pull a bit ahead. At the next off-ramp, a dimwit in a Corolla realized he was about to overshoot the exit from the middle lane and suddenly swerved left in front of the biker. Fortunately it was also the biker's exit and he had already slowed and veered left. Had he been carrying on straight ahead it would have been very nasty as the Corolla missed the bike by inches!

Now the biker wasn't riding dangerously, just cruising along minding his own business and would have been doing no more than about 75km/h. I hope he took a lesson from it and reconciders his attitude to safety gear.

[Berries]

Why? Would the Corolla have given him a wider berth? No. Would his injuries have been less severe? No.

ATGATT only matters when you fall off or get knocked off. He did neither.

[Edbear]

Why? Would the Corolla have given him a wider berth? No. Would his injuries have been less severe? No.

ATGATT only matters when you fall off or get knocked off. He did neither.

Why do people voice their own opinions as fact? IMHO, sneakers, shorts and an open faced helmet would lead to more severe injuries than proper safety gear. So there! :girlfight:

[Edbear]

PS. The fact that he did not get bowled is sheer fluke. My point was that one never knows when or where it can happen and had he not been turning off it would certainly have resulted in pain and suffering or worse.

[Flip]

310318

Chaps the right way.

[samgab]

This sort of thing is the reason why I ALWAYS wear ATGATT these days:

Warning, it's gory, please do not click if you have a weak stomach:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b1_1427326047

But it's a good lesson for those who think they are invincible.

I had a pillion crash when I was 15 and I wasn't wearing gloves. I was in hospital for a month with both my hands stripped to the muscle underneath like when you strip a rabbit. They're still not properly healed over 2 decades later and never will be... The injury takes a few seconds to happen, but the harm can last a lifetime.

[Mike.Gayner]

This sort of thing is the reason why I ALWAYS wear ATGATT these days:

Warning, it's gory, please do not click if you have a weak stomach:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b1_1427326047

That type of injury can also be avoided by not smashing into the back of a stationery car at 150km/h.

[Big Dog]

This sort of thing is the reason why I ALWAYS wear ATGATT these days:

Warning, it's gory, please do not click if you have a weak stomach:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b1_1427326047

But it's a good lesson for those who think they are invincible.

I had a pillion crash when I was 15 and I wasn't wearing gloves. I was in hospital for a month with both my hands stripped to the muscle underneath like when you strip a rabbit. They're still not properly healed over 2 decades later and never will be... The injury takes a few seconds to happen, but the harm can last a lifetime.

Definitely a vote for the full face helme right there... unless you're uglier than that to start I guess.

[Brett]

Hit a tree at 60kph head on, wearing full motocross gear. Hurt enough to want me to NEVER want to hit anything on the road again ever, let alone with NO gear. Mental.

[Edbear]

I watched a link on motorcycle crashes. In almost every case the biker was going way too fast for the circumstances.

The main issue with road riding is the totally unexpected. Be it a tar snake unseen until too late in the wet and/or dark or the dimwitted Corolla driver swerving to make his exit. Far too many deaths lately.

[FJRider]

I watched a link on motorcycle crashes. In almost every case the biker was going way too fast for the circumstances.



Far too fast for the riders experience and ability perhaps ... <_<

A rider that has not experienced a type problem ... seldom looks for it ... :facepalm:

[Edbear]

Far too fast for the riders experience and ability perhaps ... <_<

A rider that has not experienced a type problem ... seldom looks for it ... :facepalm:

Same thing in these cases. No rider would have been able to avoid the crash at the speeds they were doing. Simply no time to stop, though some tried to.

[FJRider]

Same thing in these cases. No rider would have been able to avoid the crash at the speeds they were doing. Simply no time to stop, though some tried to.

So .... the faster you go ... the more likely shit happening. As in ... a big mess ... <_<

[Edbear]

So .... the faster you go ... the more likely shit happening. As in ... a big mess ... <_<

Per Zackary! While genuine accidents do happen even to the careful, these riders left themselves no margin at all. They had avoidable crashes.

[FJRider]

They had avoidable crashes.

Hang on ... you said ...


No rider would have been able to avoid the crash


which is it .. ?? <_<

[Edbear]

Hang on ... you said ...

which is it .. ?? <_<

You stopped before the rest of the sentence...

[FJRider]

You stopped before the rest of the sentence...

Is that not allowed ... ?? :eek5:

[Edbear]

Is that not allowed ... ?? :eek5:

When the rest of the sentence points out the difference it's not. :laugh:

[FJRider]

When the rest of the sentence points out the difference it's not. :laugh:

oops ...... :innocent:

[scumdog]

Having just got back from Aussie I have to say once again I noticed Aussie ATTGATT consists of sneakers or skatie shoes, t-shirt or singlet and board shorts.

When cooler they may wear a jacket, jeans and light boots - oh and some may wear gloves.

'course the odd sprotsbike rider is wearing full kit - probably a fashion statement.

Seems to work for them....

[PrincessBandit]

Recent short ride to school with helmet and boots only (hot day) gave me an insight into the pleasure of riding with minimal gear but in the back of my mind was "I had better not come off..."
For the ease of adding a jacket with vents open and gloves (my trousers were heavy duty denim) I still reckon ATGATT is the responsible thing to do. Riders are responsible for their own well being and if that means so little to them then it's hard to make an argument for ATGATT that they'll take notice of.

[MisterD]

MOTGMOTT then? Works for me.

[Paul in NZ]

Why bother with safety gear if you are only one more big mack away from a friggin stroke anyway....

[Big Dog]

Recent short ride to school with helmet and boots only (hot day) gave me an insight into the pleasure of riding with minimal gear but in the back of my mind was "I had better not come off..."
For the ease of adding a jacket with vents open and gloves (my trousers were heavy duty denim) I still reckon ATGATT is the responsible thing to do. Riders are responsible for their own well being and if that means so little to them then it's hard to make an argument for ATGATT that they'll take notice of.

Never quite gone that far. I have done a grundy run though.
( helmet, undies, boots) through NP in winter.

Polytechnic. It ain't uni but the dares are the same.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[PrincessBandit]

Never quite gone that far. I have done a grundy run though.
( helmet, undies, boots) through NP in winter.

Polytechnic. It ain't uni but the dares are the same.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

:eek: Ok, I hadn't thought that through when I was typing... Lady Godiva I certainly ain't!! (Much to the relief of the general population)

[Big Dog]

:eek: Ok, I hadn't thought that through when I was typing... Lady Godiva I certainly ain't!! (Much to the relief of the general population)

Much to the relief of the general population. my last grundy run was 20 years and 30 kilos ago.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[swbarnett]

Riders are responsible for their own well being and if that means so little to them then it's hard to make an argument for ATGATT that they'll take notice of.
ATGATT is all very well but I'd rather be riding naked with my head in the game than in "full" gear with my brain in neutral.

[Berries]

MOTGMOTT then? Works for me.
SOTGATT works for me, I just don't preach to anyone else. If you don't crash it is all irrelevant anyway. Crashing is the problem, everything else is just window dressing BS. And to be honest who really wears ATGATT? On the road I would suggest nobody does.

[Racing Dave]

ATGATT is all very well but I'd rather be riding naked with my head in the game than in "full" gear with my brain in neutral.

They aren't the only two options - ATGATT and head in the game is another.

[Racing Dave]

SOTGATT works for me, I just don't preach to anyone else. If you don't crash it is all irrelevant anyway. Crashing is the problem, everything else is just window dressing BS. And to be honest who really wears ATGATT? On the road I would suggest nobody does.

Your suggester needs recalibrating - plenty of riders do.

[Ender EnZed]

Your suggester needs recalibrating - plenty of riders do.

I've yet to meet anyone who wears a back protector, chest protector, neck brace and air bag jacket (+the rest) on every ride.

[Old Steve]

Why bother with safety gear if you are only one more big mack away from a friggin stroke anyway....

Is that a Big Mac, as in eating unhealthy food
or
Big Mack, as in target fixation when seeing a large truck coming the other way?

Picked a guy up out of the gutter after he'd slid off on some diesel on a roundabout. He'd been wearing thongs (it was in Australia), beach shorts, tee shirt, no gloves, and the only PPE he was wearing was the mandatory helmet. Injuries spread from toes (he did still have ten of them but they weren't in the best of condition, calves, knee (some of the white structural stuff was very evident), thigh and hip (lots of red stuff around the area), shoulder (very much like the thigh and hip) and hands (well you do automatically put your hands down don't you when you fall over).

We put a picnic blanket on the passenger's seat and took him to the base hospital, the nurse on reception took one look at him, his injuries, and us holding his helmet and said, "Oh, self inflicted injuries huh, take a seat and we'll get to you."

I did wear ATGATT before that incident, and I sure as hell do now.

[swbarnett]

They aren't the only two options - ATGATT and head in the game is another.
Agreed. But if you're only going to have one the head is by far the better option.

It seems from what is written that a lot of KBers believe in protective gear as a panacea i.e. as long as you're dressed right the nothing else matters.

[swbarnett]

Your suggester needs recalibrating - plenty of riders do.
That depends on your definition of "ATG". Does that stop short of or include back & chest protector, airbag jacket and any amount of cotton wool you care to mention.

[F5 Dave]

Agreed. But if you're only going to have one the head is by far the better option.

It seems from what is written that a lot of KBers believe in protective gear as a panacea i.e. as long as you're dressed right the nothing else matters.
No its just you making that up.

Plenty of people have crashed & thought; ouch that hurts, & bought better gear but not let go of the desire not to crash . Those of us that race usually have decent race gear & crashing is a likely consequence from time to time when pushing the envelope. It still hurts, but better gear makes the pain usually less, not always. You begin to notice that on the road there are no hay-bales on the lamp posts & cars are much worse than the loose units you encounter on the track. Best update the road gear.

So I dispute your argument as illogical. Why would you limit yourself to just one? Its just a silly argument to ignore the original premise. Simple risk management. It is a risky pursuit but I still want to do it, lets reduce the risk as much as practicable within what you consider reasonable limits, such as money & the amount of attn. you think you can maintain over long distances.

[swbarnett]

No its just you making that up.
No, it's just the impression given when gear is discussed to the exclusion of all else. When anyone pipes up saying that they've chosen not to wear XYZ and mitigate the risks with their brain they're often vilified.


Plenty of people have crashed & thought; ouch that hurts, & bought better gear but not let go of the desire not to crash . Those of us that race usually have decent race gear & crashing is a likely consequence from time to time when pushing the envelope. It still hurts, but better gear makes the pain usually less, not always. You begin to notice that on the road there are no hay-bales on the lamp posts & cars are much worse than the loose units you encounter on the track. Best update the road gear.
This just proves my point. The only thought that you have put here is to update your gear. Did you also think "best not crash"?


So I dispute your argument as illogical. Why would you limit yourself to just one?
I'm not sure what you think my "argument" is. Yes, it's safer to have both. All I'm saying is that IF you're only going to have one better to have the brain.


lets reduce the risk as much as practicable within what you consider reasonable limits, such as money & the amount of attn. you think you can maintain over long distances.
I totally agree. It's just that "what you consider reasonable limits" changes with the individual. One cannot say what this is for another.

[F5 Dave]

. . . .

This just proves my point. The only thought that you have put here is to update your gear. Did you also think "best not crash"?

. . ..

To quote myself


& bought better gear but not let go of the desire not to crash . ..



. . .
I'm not sure what you think my "argument" is. Yes, it's safer to have both. All I'm saying is that IF you're only going to have one better to have the brain.
. . .
But why would you say that? Did your gear get stolen or shrink in the wash and you have to get somewhere before you turn into a pumpkin?
If you had to eat a cup full of poos or a handful of maggots what would be better? Who cares? Perhaps you could eat the Big Mac mentioned above. Or better still get some real food.

It all just seems like circular arguments constrained for no real reason.

[PrincessBandit]

Even when wearing helmet, gloves, jacket, pants (revits) and boots I don't think "ok, cool, now I can ride however I like with no worries about what I might encounter on the road". That would be very short sighted and is an over-simplistic knee jerk reaction that only a halfwit would consider logical.
The only crash I have ever had saw some hefty gravel rash along my helmet, my gloves and toe of one boot ground down several layers and my heavy leather jacket ripped open at the neck on the side I broke my collar bone. Was I glad I was wearing my gear? Hell yeah. Had I set out on that short ride intending to or expecting to crash? Um, no.
You would have to be seriously several sammies short of the picnic to really believe ATGATT will save your life. It wouldn't have done me much good if I'd be squished by a following car or truck! Did it save me from severe road rash (and very likely severe head injury) YES. Broken bones? No, although it was only one.
My short foray into "helmet and boots only" (and tbh I have to wear my boots whether I actually want to or not as I can't reach the ground securely otherwise) was taken being fully aware of the potential risks.
If some want to ride comparatively unprotected the main thing is understanding the risks and not expecting too much in the way of tea, bikkies and sympathy when you get skinned and shredded. :yes:

[Mike.Gayner]

the nurse on reception took one look at him, his injuries, and us holding his helmet and said, "Oh, self inflicted injuries huh, take a seat and we'll get to you."

That nurse should be fired. From a cannon into a brick wall.

[F5 Dave]

If it were her first day , yes. but I imagine people's empathy gets worn thin when they see people who did not take precautions & turn their attn. first to people who did, or more likely cute kids having a bad time, because everyone is more sympathetic to cute kids.

Will wearing gear make you think you are bulletproof? heard that argument before. I've turned up to Thursday rides in the old days with guys wearing jeans & sneakers 'cause they're not going to go fast, they'd wear leathers if they were going to go for a fast ride'. Then they ride as if there's no tomorrow because they are 20something alpha males trying to prove something. They already think they are bulletproof.

[Edbear]

Has anyone thought to note the opinions of those who crashed without the gear, leading to severe gravel rash? Like cancer from smoking, it's those who haven't yet got it who are most vocal about not needing to worry about it.

Few ever learn from the mistakes of others, preferring to risk their own health or life until the bad day comes. Of course they're mostly young and think they know it all and older heads are stupid.

[swbarnett]

To quote myself
Yep, I can be blind at times.


But why would you say that?
All I'm saying is that Brain minus Gear is one hell of a lot safer than Gear minus Brain. Brain plus Gear is even safer still. It all depends on how far you want to go.

In essence - start with Brain. Then add Gear. Not the other way around.

There are those that chose to ride open to the wind but have their head firmly in the game. To my mind they are a lot safer than the Rossi wannabe that wears all the latest gear but spends the whole ride thinking about how cool they look.

[swbarnett]

Even when wearing helmet, gloves, jacket, pants (revits) and boots I don't think "ok, cool, now I can ride however I like with no worries about what I might encounter on the road". That would be very short sighted and is an over-simplistic knee jerk reaction that only a halfwit would consider logical.
Or perhaps a newbie that's seen one too many "Full Gear / Fool's Gear" posters.

[swbarnett]

If it were her first day , yes. but I imagine people's empathy gets worn thin when they see people who did not take precautions & turn their attn. first to people who did, or more likely cute kids having a bad time, because everyone is more sympathetic to cute kids.
There is no place in a hospital for anyone that will pass judgement before offering treatment. How the patient got there is irrelevant. If I found anyone doing what you describe above a formal complaint would be lodged and I would hope they would be fired on the spot.

If a smoker comes in with lung cancer should they be turned away and left to die? After all, that's way more self inflicted than any rider going down without the gear.

[swbarnett]

That nurse should be fired. From a cannon into a brick wall.
Exactly my thought. They're not there to pass judgement in a time of crisis. That is just unprofessional no matter how jaded they are.

[swbarnett]

Few ever learn from the mistakes of others, preferring to risk their own health or life until the bad day comes.
There are plenty of people for whom that bad day never comes. There are lots of smokers that never develop related health problems and there are plenty of riders that have never crashed in any meaningful way.

[Mike.Gayner]

If it were her first day , yes. but I imagine people's empathy gets worn thin when they see people who did not take precautions & turn their attn. first to people who did, or more likely cute kids having a bad time, because everyone is more sympathetic to cute kids.

It's not a nurse's job to pass moral judgements, they're there to triage, admit and treat.

[Old Steve]

It's not a nurse's job to pass moral judgements, they're there to triage, admit and treat.

When I once did a drivers course we were asked who we would attend to first if we came upon a car accident:

The person bleeding and screaming
the person lying still on the ground

You attend to the unconscious one first, at least the screamer is breathing.

But I did think her attitude was harsh, but the injured bike rider wasn't going to die and was in fact taken through to A & E when the next nurse came through within 3 - 4 minutes.

[Edbear]

There are plenty of people for whom that bad day never comes. There are lots of smokers that never develop related health problems and there are plenty of riders that have never crashed in any meaningful way.

Spoken as I expected. You simply prove what I said.

[Gadget1]

It's not a nurse's job to pass moral judgements, they're there to triage, admit and treat.

That's true.

However, my wife is an ex Neuro Intensive Care nurse and according to her they all (including Doctors) got into a "Motorcycle injury? Well, what do you expect?" frame of mind when another one was wheeled in.

Incidently, she told me it usually went, by bed: Motorcycle injury, Rugby, Motorcycle, Motorcycle, Rugby, Car.

As you can imagine, I had a bit of a job on my hands wanting to come back to riding motorbikes because of it.

[F5 Dave]

There is no place in a hospital for anyone that will pass judgement before offering treatment. How the patient got there is irrelevant. If I found anyone doing what you describe above a formal complaint would be lodged and I would hope they would be fired on the spot.

If a smoker comes in with lung cancer should they be turned away and left to die? After all, that's way more self inflicted than any rider going down without the gear.

Have you met any human beings? We`re opinionated prejudiced and fallowble. See? my spelling isn't perfect. I tried that word 3 times and it still doesn't look right.

Hopefully in a time of need we will encounter professional staff who aren't having one of those days. But don't count on it. Your position of the moral high ground won't comfort you at all. And clearly you aren't ofey (can't spell that either tonight) will nz employment law. You'd have to triple murder someone to be sacked on the spot.

[Big Dog]

Is that a Big Mac, as in eating unhealthy food
or
Big Mack, as in target fixation when seeing a large truck coming the other way?

Picked a guy up out of the gutter after he'd slid off on some diesel on a roundabout. He'd been wearing thongs (it was in Australia), beach shorts, tee shirt, no gloves, and the only PPE he was wearing was the mandatory helmet. Injuries spread from toes (he did still have ten of them but they weren't in the best of condition, calves, knee (some of the white structural stuff was very evident), thigh and hip (lots of red stuff around the area), shoulder (very much like the thigh and hip) and hands (well you do automatically put your hands down don't you when you fall over).

We put a picnic blanket on the passenger's seat and took him to the base hospital, the nurse on reception took one look at him, his injuries, and us holding his helmet and said, "Oh, self inflicted injuries huh, take a seat and we'll get to you."

I did wear ATGATT before that incident, and I sure as hell do now.

Simple solution. Tell the nurse "No, he was riding a motorcycle but this is a freak rugby accident." Then watch them hop to.
When I broke my foot high siding a scooter the nurse told me that motorcycle and alcohol related non-life-threatening accidents are treated last with motorcycles just sneaking in ahead of alcohol related.
It took nearly 4 hours to get treatment. Even then I was wheeled out of X-ray to make room for a rugby player who was still wearing wet mud. Broken collarbone, yes. More life threatening, no. Can't have left the pitch 20 minutes before he was getting attention from several orthopaedic specialists. Meanwhile I got an X-ray and a nurse putting on a cast just in case because there would not be an orthopaedic specialist to have a look 'til Monday.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[swbarnett]

Spoken as I expected. You simply prove what I said.
Bullshit. All I said is that nothing is certain.

[swbarnett]

Have you met any human beings? We`re opinionated prejudiced and fallowble.
True. But that does not mean we have to add unprofessional to that list. No matter what you feel on the inside there is no excuse for letting that affect your professional judgement. If I did that in my job I'd be out on my ear in 2 seconds flat.

[swbarnett]

When I broke my foot high siding a scooter the nurse told me that motorcycle and alcohol related non-life-threatening accidents are treated last with motorcycles just sneaking in ahead of alcohol related.

FUCK! Sounds like our health service is full of unprofessional, prejudice wankers if this the prevalent attitude.

[Motu]

Has anyone thought to note the opinions of those who crashed without the gear, leading to severe gravel rash?


Gravel rash was like the cane at school, it hurt and left marks that took time to go away. But the cane never changed my behaviour, just tried not to get caught again, and gravel rash didn't change my riding habits....but I did learn what caused the crash and tried not to get caught again.

[F5 Dave]

FUCK! Sounds like our health service is full of unprofessional, prejudice wankers if this the prevalent attitude.
Great so now with this new information goes the saying, forewarned is forearmed. Or in this case perhaps fore armoured.

[nzspokes]

FUCK! Sounds like our health service is full of unprofessional, prejudice wankers if this the prevalent attitude.

Welcome to the human race. Sounds like you are catching up.

[nzspokes]

Simple solution. Tell the nurse "No, he was riding a motorcycle but this is a freak rugby accident." Then watch them hop to.
When I broke my foot high siding a scooter the nurse told me that motorcycle and alcohol related non-life-threatening accidents are treated last with motorcycles just sneaking in ahead of alcohol related.
It took nearly 4 hours to get treatment. Even then I was wheeled out of X-ray to make room for a rugby player who was still wearing wet mud. Broken collarbone, yes. More life threatening, no. Can't have left the pitch 20 minutes before he was getting attention from several orthopaedic specialists. Meanwhile I got an X-ray and a nurse putting on a cast just in case because there would not be an orthopaedic specialist to have a look 'til Monday.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

They tend to like to deal with the people with the highest risk of death. Funny that. Broken foot is very minor. Collarbone is more serious.

[nzspokes]

Gravel rash was like the cane at school, it hurt and left marks that took time to go away.

Gravel rash can kill when you add it to other injuries like serious compound fractures. Blood loss can get to a point they cant keep up.

And if I go for a slide I would rather be recovering from a broken leg than a broken leg and major skin loss.

[Berries]

I've yet to meet anyone who wears a back protector, chest protector, neck brace and air bag jacket (+the rest) on every ride.
Yes, that is exactly my point when it come to the term ATGATT. Everyone has their own personal level of protective gear but few if any truly use all the available safety gear such as air bag suits and neck braces. We all draw the line somewhere including all the rabid advocates who pop up on here, and that line is drawn well before you get to the first capital A.

And when you do finally get to hospital it is the fact that you were on a motorbike that is the issue, not that your stingray trousers were not triple stitched with kangaroo gut.

[F5 Dave]

Yes but they are beyond most people's means. I didn't hire the FBI to drive black SUVs in formation around me therefore its the same as wearing jandals. What hypocritics we all are.

[PrincessBandit]

When I once did a drivers course we were asked who we would attend to first if we came upon a car accident:

The person bleeding and screaming
the person lying still on the ground

You attend to the unconscious one first, at least the screamer is breathing.

But I did think her attitude was harsh, but the injured bike rider wasn't going to die and was in fact taken through to A & E when the next nurse came through within 3 - 4 minutes.

Same thing I was told in a Red Cross first aid course that we had to attend at school. The "screamer" is proving that they're alive; the quiet/non-responsive ones are the priority.

[nzspokes]

Same thing I was told in a Red Cross first aid course that we had to attend at school. The "screamer" is proving that they're alive; the quiet/non-responsive ones are the priority.

Yes that is what I have been taught.

But just make sure the bleeder isnt going to go quiet when they run out of blood...... Mind you its a good way to shut them up. :laugh:

[Big Dog]

They tend to like to deal with the people with the highest risk of death. Funny that. Broken foot is very minor. Collarbone is more serious.

Pretty hard to die from a broken collar bone.
Wouldn't have though so the noise he was making. 100% put on too. He had enough painkillers to make Winston Peters think John Key was sexy.

Waiting an extra 30-40 seconds would not have harmed him. Possibly even would have hurt less when they started twisting his arm for the shots.

The collar bones primary function is to break. To spare more important parts the trauma. While not painless according to those people I know who have broken both a broken finger is worse.

Nah his incessant wailing was due to factors other than the broken collar bone. Nurse reckons time to treatment is a KPI for rugby or representative grade sport with acc.

Ps. Crying stopped like a tap when his mummy ( guessing based on age and familiarity ) and an interpreter (according to the conversation that ensued he was a Chinese student here to learn to play rugby) showed up. Then it was all smiles.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Also: I would have absolutely no ill feeling waiting 40 hours while they dealt with an unfortunate series of heart attacks. I did mind the fact that I was sent to sit with the two drinks in an otherwise empty waiting room. Oddly they suddenly had spare nurses and x-ray machines when I took my boot off and they saw the state of my foot. Nearly made the admissions nurse lose her breakfast.

Total experience I would rate as an 8/10. The nurses were nice.
I don't even care that I was made to wait longer because of the cause of my injuries.
I was just passing on some comments from the nurses about how triage works once you get past the, dead, soon to be dead, could die, unlikely to die test.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

but, if i'm right, it's often mandatory to wear glasses.
.

You are not right.

[jasonu]

Simple solution. Tell the nurse "No, he was riding a motorcycle but this is a freak rugby accident." Then watch them hop to.
When I broke my foot high siding a scooter the nurse told me that motorcycle and alcohol related non-life-threatening accidents are treated last with motorcycles just sneaking in ahead of alcohol related.
It took nearly 4 hours to get treatment. Even then I was wheeled out of X-ray to make room for a rugby player who was still wearing wet mud. Broken collarbone, yes. More life threatening, no. Can't have left the pitch 20 minutes before he was getting attention from several orthopaedic specialists. Meanwhile I got an X-ray and a nurse putting on a cast just in case because there would not be an orthopaedic specialist to have a look 'til Monday.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

That sounds highly typical of the shit NZ 'healthcare' system. You should have seen the
(miss)treatment my Mother recieved last year when she got sick. There are several people in key positions in the Wanganui hospital I would like to shoot right between the eyes.

[nzspokes]

Pretty hard to die from a broken collar bone.


You know they were not checking for other injuries like broken ribs? That can kill you.

I broke 3 and was treated very urgently. Getting them put back in place was not fun.

[JATZ]

I broke 3 and was treated very urgently. Getting them put back in place was not fun.
Funny that... I broke 3 and it took 4 or 5 days to get an X-ray, even then I don't think the doc saw them unroll the missus pointed out one that looked like a lightning bolt.
But on the plus side the rest of my stay in hospital was great :D

[Big Dog]

You know they were not checking for other injuries like broken ribs? That can kill you.

I broke 3 and was treated very urgently. Getting them put back in place was not fun.

As a general rule, 30 seconds would not make much difference to the treatment plan.
If their squealing like a stuck pig their lungs are not compromised.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it. I was just amused that they interrupted the third and final X-ray after I was already positioned and just waiting for the operator to press the button and pushed me out into the hall way for 1/2 an hour so they could wrestle him into submission to get x-rays he didn't seem to want.
Stated reason being they have to meet a time to treatment KPI.

Maybe if I was still squealing like a stuck pig after that much Tramadol and trying to get up off the stretcher and trying to refuse treatment I wouldn't have been.
Or maybe if I had broken my foot watching the rugby I would have already been home and not had to sit through that.
I didn't get any pain relief because they said that if they gave me any they wouldn't be able to operate which was probable if it was broken from a crush injury as in this case. No operation for me though.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[awa355]

Will wearing gear make you think you are bulletproof? heard that argument before. I've turned up to Thursday rides in the old days with guys wearing jeans & sneakers 'cause they're not going to go fast, they'd wear leathers if they were going to go for a fast ride'. Then they ride as if there's no tomorrow because they are 20something alpha males trying to prove something. They already think they are bulletproof.

A bit like the opinions expressed when seat belts in cars became compulsory. "I'd fit belts for the passengers but I would just brace myself holding the steering wheel". "Have never needed a seat belt yet". "If you think you need to wear a seat belt, maybe you need to learn to drive".

I admit, I do not wear proper leg protection. Mostly jeans and overtrousers. Used to wear a kidney belt years ago.

[swbarnett]

Great so now with this new information goes the saying, forewarned is forearmed. Or in this case perhaps fore armoured.


Welcome to the human race. Sounds like you are catching up.

Forgive me if I expect professionalism from professionals. I'm just not as Cynical as you seem to be.

[swbarnett]

I do not wear proper leg protection. Mostly jeans and overtrousers. Used to wear a kidney belt years ago.
How is "jeans and overtrousers" not "proper leg protection"? I presume you're talking about textile pants with knee armour etc.?

[nzspokes]

Forgive me if I expect professionalism from professionals. I'm just not as Cynical as you seem to be.

Good luck with that.

[swbarnett]

Good luck with that.
It's stood me in good stead so far.

[eldog]

I have done the no helmet, no gloves, no boots - tee shirt, shorts stint just to see what it felt like - so cool. Then reason stepped in - ATGATT

OK I have , boots, gloves, textile, back protector and shock absorbing impact armour.

The support the boots and shock pads really helped when I needed it. There was damage to gloves and helmet which I cant account for.

Wearing the gear always helped me feel that I had covered myself if I made a mistake. It never makes me feel bulletproof, that was after the accident when I rode the bike home.

I didnt go to the hospital and only went to the doctors after it was suggested by another person i respect 'at least get an ACC number' in case of future trouble. He had had that problem.

The first doc didnt think it was worthwhile getting an xray of foot or shoulder. Later the second doc thought that and other things were strange..

I would suggest investing in what gear you think is appropiate and what you can afford. I saved for quite a while to afford the gear that protected me. I was willing to wait as I knew it would save me later.

boring but true.

[F5 Dave]

SW, Your avatar seems to be an eagle. Perhaps an ostrich would be more appropriate.

[Erelyes]

There is no place in a hospital for anyone that will pass judgement before offering treatment. How the patient got there is irrelevant. If I found anyone doing what you describe above a formal complaint would be lodged and I would hope they would be fired on the spot.

Dude. It's human nature to pass judgement. Perhaps her remark was in poor taste, perhaps not, but it ain't a fireable offence. Get off the high horse.


If a smoker comes in with lung cancer should they be turned away and left to die? After all, that's way more self inflicted than any rider going down without the gear.

Who said anything about them being turned away? They got scraped up, they weren't going to die, they took a seat and waited like everyone else. We've had miserably long waits for various A&E visits involving non-motoring accidents. And a very quick admission for my wife's gallstones (cholecystectomy resulted). A dude straight from the set of Baywatch with some nasty scrapes probably does have to wait, cos our health system can only attend urgently to the most urgent cases.

[MisterD]

Has anyone thought to note the opinions of those who crashed without the gear, leading to severe gravel rash? Like cancer from smoking, it's those who haven't yet got it who are most vocal about not needing to worry about it.

I don't know any smoker who says they don't need to worry about cancer, on the other hand I do know several ex-smokers who are irritatingly evangelical about the need to quit...and this thread is ringing that bell pretty loudly.

[swbarnett]

It's human nature to pass judgement.
Agreed. This is not the problem, however.


Perhaps her remark was in poor taste, perhaps not, but it ain't a fireable offence.
Poor taste or not, no matter how heart-felt or true their view is it is not to be shared with the patient or allowed to affect the order in which injuries are treated.

To do so is not just in poor taste but very unprofessional. If I said to a customer "dude, you didn't do XYZ so you can go to the bottom of the pile", even though their problem was worse than the others in my pile, I would be hauled into the bosses office with a "please explain". Do it twice and I would told to find another profession.

I may belittle them privately but that will never make it's way to the customer, even indirectly.


Get off the high horse.
My horse isn't that high. I just expect that we will be treated in a professional manner no matter the personal feelings of the professional we're dealing with. FFS, if I walked into a shop carrying a helmet and was told I would be served last because they didn't like bikers I would never darken their door again. I wouldn't have a problem if they held that view privately but served me like anyone else in spite of it.


Who said anything about them being turned away?
To be sent to the bottom of the queue simply because of a value judgement is almost the same thing.

[swbarnett]

SW, Your avatar seems to be an eagle. Perhaps an ostrich would be more appropriate.
Golden eagle to be precise. I use it because it's my favorite bird. Not because it necessarily reflects anything about me. Although I'm not saying it doesn't either.