What's up with open face helmets?

[vfrboy]

Why is everybody suddenly riding Vespa's with open face helmets, saw 3 today in 10 min's. Have they not seen a picture of what happens when you hit the deck with an open face????

[Sniper]

Apparently they are easier to take and get off. I like my chin and jaw though.

[Motu]

You wanna see a picture of me?? It's not a pretty sight because I have not only crashed many times with an open faced helmet,but also many times without a helmet at all! I could of been a famous actor and a pin up boy on every girls bedroom wall....but alas,I was stupid enough to wear an open face helmet....

[Big Dave]

I wear an open face helmet - around town and cruising - been doing it for 30 years and i'm still beautiful.

Go for a full face when sports and touring, but for low speed work it's a risk i'm willing to take.

It's a far nicer way to ride - outside and all.

[Big Dave]

You wanna see a picture of me?? .

YEP!...........

[vfrboy]

Was just amazed people are more concerned about looking good on a bike than protecting themselves, e.g. wearing skirts and shorts, t shirts. How stupid really. Also the fact that scooters seem dangerous as they don't have any extra power/speed to get one out of a dodgy situation if it arrises.

[John]

I wear an open face helmet - around town and cruising - been doing it for 30 years and i'm still beautiful.

:X


You gotta pretty mouth boy :chase:

[Motu]

I must admit - image is everything for me.But I've ridden many scooters and never got into trouble through lack of power,or handling - mind you carrying a car battery in the front basket of my FA50 on a gravel road was asking for trouble,but I didn't crash anyway...so it didn't matter if I had on my open face.

[Scorpygirl]

Apparently it is easier if you wear glasses - don't have to take them on and off. But for me I wore a full face even with glasses. I have had laser surgery now but still need sunnies. However I feel more comfortable with a full face that protects my chin and jaw!!

[Rhino]

Why is everybody suddenly riding Vespa's with open face helmets, saw 3 today in 10 min's. Have they not seen a picture of what happens when you hit the deck with an open face????

I can suggest a likely reason for this:

The rider is a newbie (migrating from a car to save on fuel costs) who has never ridden a bike before, so has no knowledge regarding protective gear etc. The distributor who sold the scooter may have sold them a "Package Deal" of bike and the cheapest open face helmet and gloves etc.

Unfortunately some dealers are more interested in a quick dollar, rather than retaining a long term customer base.

[Big Dave]

:X


You gotta pretty mouth boy :chase:


'Are you over six feet tall, self made and successful? - Cocky bugger aren't you!' - Classified advert Monty Pythons Paperbok - 1975

Just under the classified ad that said:
'Arthur Penis has changed his name - from now on he wishes to be known as Art Penis'

[TwoSeven]

Why is everybody suddenly riding Vespa's with open face helmets, saw 3 today in 10 min's. Have they not seen a picture of what happens when you hit the deck with an open face????

Trick is not to fall off.

Beats falling off a push bike wearing tights and a bit of foam on your head.

[vfrboy]

Thats for sure, but i think that a vespa/scooter MIGHT just be able to go a little faster than a pushie and so injuries would be worse, but not falling off in the first place is definately the way to go.

[Scorpygirl]

Trick is not to fall off.

Beats falling off a push bike wearing tights and a bit of foam on your head.

Been off a pushy without a skid lid - b4 they were legal. Lady came out in front of me in a cage and then I collected her. She was a nurse coming off night shift out of the hospital grounds turning right and I was going straight ahead. Hit the ground hard - blood pissing out of my nose and face everywhere - glasses gone west but not broken, just a little bent. Nurse was very upset and took me back up the road to AE. Nothing broken thankfully and it was winter in Rotorua was I had a good jacket on, good pants and gloves - don't know how I would have faired otherwise. Always wear good gear on the motorbike though even as a pillion!!!

[Motu]

As 2/7 says,it pays not to fall off in the first place,that's the only time you will need the helmet.I've crashed many times...open face,full face and no helmet at all,and not once has my head hit the deck.There is a skill in crashing,if you search you may find a thread we did on it.Watch the MotoGP on sunday night and look at the crashes - how many go along the track with their face planted on the road? Not many....they hold their head up and look where they are going,even when down.As I keep hammering on this site - riding is a total experiance,you gotta do the whole bit,knowing how to handle yourself in a crash is another art in selfpreservation.

[vfrboy]

I've done it plenty of times on my old XR400, never went out once without breaking a clutch or brake lever, not that i intended to fall off. Have just seen some horrible pics of aftermath of open face helmets

[Big Dave]

It's also about discression - as I've flown over the handlebars and face planted into a sandstone wall I was glad i had the XR900 on for sure. But i would not have been riding so fast as to come off like that if i was in an open face. You just don't do it.
I could argue that because i ride significantly slower when in an open face, that for me they are in fact safer.
Open face helmet and the naked t'bird 90kph feels satisfyingly fast.
Full face on the fully faired trophy and 125kph is comfort central.

My davida is legal, comfortable, approved, quiet and well made. A matter of horses for courses. If you are jumping on a R1 and going for a thrash down 22 in one i'd say you are a bit loopy.

[Waylander]

Used to ride with an open face all the time. Hell still plan on it everynow and then. Nothing wrong with it really other than a few peaple who worry about every little thing that could possibly hurt them. But my open face helmet is DOT approved. What really gets me is the folks on scooters or those damned mini-choppers wearing bicycle helmets...

[John]

It's also about discression - as I've flown over the handlebars and face planted into a sandstone wall I was glad i had the XR900 on for sure. But i would not have been riding so fast as to come off like that if i was in an open face. You just don't do it.
I could argue that because i ride significantly slower when in an open face, that for me they are in fact safer.
Open face helmet and the naked t'bird 90kph feels satisfyingly fast.
Full face on the fully faired trophy and 125kph is comfort central.

My davida is legal, comfortable, approved, quiet and well made. A matter of horses for courses.
remeber its not your riding its the other peoples DRIVING that will cause the problems.

[Big Dave]

remeber its not your riding its the other peoples DRIVING that will cause the problems.

They haven't hit me yet.

[Ixion]

They haven't hit me yet.

Must be that you're such a small target :rofl:

[Big Dave]

Must be that you're such a small target :rofl:

Yuh - And perhaps I shouldn't be so vocal - but it's a personal choice and relative risk and all maner of other things should be considered.
A newbie shouldn't wear one - But I have more than a million K's in the saddle and ride pwofessionally - relative risk.

[Motu]

Actualy I tell a lie (surprise?) sifting through my eroded memory banks (must plant some wry grass) I remember a couple of times I have damaged my face,both off road.Once out of control down a very steep bank into a deep narrow ditch I plowed my face along the dirt,I think a full face may have caused neck damage in that situation.Another time crossed up and leaning right over the front wheel of my CT2 175 Yamaha...when it spun out I smashed my mouth on the low steel guard,split my lips - a full face would of been good there,even a mouth guard like the MX guys wore in those days.Trials riders still wear open face....but of course they are the most skilled riders in the world.....

[SARGE]

Trick is not to fall off.

Beats falling off a push bike wearing tights and a bit of foam on your head.


damn skippy.. i dont know why we have to be subjected to every roll and bulge of the spandex bikie shorts( on males anyway.. i am totally in favor of the spandex shorts for the fit attractive women ( of course.. very few of them ride pushies..they are all in the BMW's and 4WD's)

i DID see a very fine young lady on a scooter the other day on Gt North rd wearing a VERY short skirt at a light.. i made sure i filtered ahead of her and looked in my mirror../giggle/
more power to her i say..

[inlinefour]

When I was eight. Once I had my licience I got a MX type skid lid and dropped the open face from the top of a very tall building. Sure enough the open face did not survive. I've done one face plant into the road while coming off my bike. Really pointed out to me the benefits of not having a open faced skid lid. I dont believe that I'd ever get another open faced nor will any of my family be getting one while I'm about... :ride:

[Dafe]

BEWARE - THE CAGERS IN DISGUISE!!!

Only well to recognise the ill educated cager - Open faced helmets.

[Bonez]

I've done it plenty of times on my old XR400, never went out once without breaking a clutch or brake lever, not that i intended to fall off. Have just seen some horrible pics of aftermath of open face helmets
Folk have been killed inside of cars during crashes, yet they still allow folk to drive the dangerous things............................

[laRIKin]

I still wear one, around town and when doing small trips. (not at speed)
But mainly when I am working on the bikes and test rides so I do not have
to take the helmet on and off to adjust things and you can hear the motor
better.
When I was younger not many people had full face helmets.
Even MXers used open face helmets. (but not all their teeth because of flying rocks)

[Lou Girardin]

Some people get claustrophobic in full faces, some just don't like 'em, others like feeling the breeze on their face.
We're a wonderfully diverse organism.
(Although Labour is doing their best to change that)

[sunhuntin]

Some people get claustrophobic in full faces, some just don't like 'em, others like feeling the breeze on their face.
We're a wonderfully diverse organism.
(Although Labour is doing their best to change that)

i ride open faced with sunnies and goggles at night or when im headed out of town. i wore a "pudding bowl" while in canada and now even my open facer feels too closed in for my liking. prefer to have the wind in my face, the smells in my nose and all that stuff. i feel visibility is better too. if the goggles or glasses get bug guts all over, they can be removed easily. visors can only be pushed up and theres still the bottom of them marring vision.

[Wolf]

My second bin I used hands and chin for a three-point landing and had some beaut gouges in the chin guard from the gravel - glad I was wearing a full-face helmet then. Have ridden with open-face and airforce goggles, so I can testify to the superiority over the curved Lexan of my visor so far as visibility goes (but then, I was wearing cheap helmets - dearer helmets may have superior visors for all I know.)

[WelshWizard]

Well I think it should be up to personal choice if you wear a helmet at all, when I started it was not the law to have one, but I did on some rides use one they called them pudding basins, I still wear a helmet but when I get the chance to ride legally without one I will use my right of choice to decide if I do or not. there is to much nanny state laws about and to few rights.
each year they take more and more rights away, and bikeing was always about freedom.

[skidz]

I only wear an open face and always have. Had many a spill and never got my face.

[Macktheknife]

They haven't hit me yet.

The fact that they havent hit you YET is great BUT...
the real point is YET. I had a wonderful experience just the other week doing nothing wrong at all and had a dickhead teenager-cager run right up my arse at a roundabout. It is only a matter of time. Ride like they are trying to kill you!

[Jackrat]

It's also about discression - as I've flown over the handlebars and face planted into a sandstone wall I was glad i had the XR900 on for sure. But i would not have been riding so fast as to come off like that if i was in an open face. You just don't do it.
I could argue that because i ride significantly slower when in an open face, that for me they are in fact safer.
Open face helmet and the naked t'bird 90kph feels satisfyingly fast.
Full face on the fully faired trophy and 125kph is comfort central.

My davida is legal, comfortable, approved, quiet and well made. A matter of horses for courses. If you are jumping on a R1 and going for a thrash down 22 in one i'd say you are a bit loopy.

Couldn't be bothered reading the same ole same ole.
But mate you hit it on the head big time.
Just hope a few others get the message.
I've now been riding mostly with an open face for 32 years an the odd thing is the only time in a fair few offs that I hit the ground with my face I WAS wearing a full face.
Can't remember the brand but it cost $580, which was pretty much top of the line in 88.
It was also the last time I've worn a visor.
Ok so I'm a bit strange, but as far as I'm concerned that lid was part of the reason I got off.
See it was raining,I was feeling real safe in my flash as new lid with the flash as visor an I was going way faster than I normaly did because of it.
Had I not be wearing that lid I'd never of been going that fast.
Had I not been going that fast I'd not be living in pain EVERY BLOODY DAY,I'd not be looking forward to a life of misery when I get old for real,I wouldn't be taking drugs that will eventualy rot my liver,I wouldn't of had to live on a sickness benifit for four years,I wouldn't of had to feel like a bludger every time I went to WINZ to beg more money,I wouldn't have to hide my condition every time I apply for a job,I wouldn't have to feel like a liar because that's exactly what I am doing it.
Today I wear my open face an the full face I do own is going to be used to grow a house plant of some kind.
I'll feel the wind in my face an enjoy every bit of it.
Cheers Dave.

[Damon]

You'll only say "it hasn't happened to me" for so long, and saying i only wear it at a slow pace is no go0d when the guy running the red light is doing 70kms, your skill and ability only counts for so much and then your at ther mercy of the cagers.

my friend and i were only doing 70-80 when a bmw came around a blind corner on our side of the road, i dont remember what happened but my mate took a dive into a cliff and it wipped the visor off the front of his new shoei and left him with a hell of a blood nose, if he was only wearing an open faced helmet because we were cruzing he'd probibly be dead or eating through his neck.

[anhrefn]

Open faced helmets........... Hmmmmmm would work nicely with a beer hat! But anyway back to reality. Yeah I have heard the same thing said about glasses. Seen people riding in shorts and the like. Worst one yet is this stupid young idiot on my street who has taken to riding up and down the road on a friday in the dark......... with out a helmet. I stopped him last week and politely pointed out that idiots like that are raising other riders acc levies cause all they want is the smallest of excuses. And I also took the time to point out that without a helmet hes as good as dead and if hes that desperate to mangle himself allow me to take the time to beat the shit out of him. However been youthfull and stupid he still carried on. However next week I may have to live up to my offer if he is stupid enough.

[Damon]

See it was raining,I was feeling real safe in my flash as new lid with the flash as visor an I was going way faster than I normaly did because of it.
Had I not be wearing that lid I'd never of been going that fast.



i dont know you from jack, but blaming an off because a helmet made you feel like superman in the rain is a load of crap hahaha every time i get done up in all my wet weather gear i feel like the marshmellow man but it doesn't make me ride beyond my ability in the wet.

[Big Dave]

You'll only say "it hasn't happened to me" for so long,

Actually - i say it won't happen to me.

[Big Dave]

blaming an off because a helmet made you feel like superman in the rain is a load of crap hahaha

Adjusting the way you ride to suit your kit isn't.

[Damon]

Actually - i say it won't happen to me.

hahaha your a keen man Dave, i hope your right

[Big Dave]

hahaha your a keen man Dave, i hope your right

Optimism is my strong point. (And i have a XR900 and a beautiful X-Spirit for the hard and fast yards.)

[Scorpygirl]

Couldn't be bothered reading the same ole same ole.
But mate you hit it on the head big time.
Just hope a few others get the message.
I've now been riding mostly with an open face for 32 years an the odd thing is the only time in a fair few offs that I hit the ground with my face I WAS wearing a full face.
Can't remember the brand but it cost $580, which was pretty much top of the line in 88.
It was also the last time I've worn a visor.
Ok so I'm a bit strange, but as far as I'm concerned that lid was part of the reason I got off.
See it was raining,I was feeling real safe in my flash as new lid with the flash as visor an I was going way faster than I normaly did because of it.
Had I not be wearing that lid I'd never of been going that fast.
Had I not been going that fast I'd not be living in pain EVERY BLOODY DAY,I'd not be looking forward to a life of misery when I get old for real,I wouldn't be taking drugs that will eventualy rot my liver,I wouldn't of had to live on a sickness benifit for four years,I wouldn't of had to feel like a bludger every time I went to WINZ to beg more money,I wouldn't have to hide my condition every time I apply for a job,I wouldn't have to feel like a liar because that's exactly what I am doing it.
Today I wear my open face an the full face I do own is going to be used to grow a house plant of some kind.
I'll feel the wind in my face an enjoy every bit of it.
Cheers Dave.

Get over it sunshine, it's you that have to live with your injury cause you mad3 the fup. It's like the usual story blame the equipment!!!! You got to live with your mistake and the sooner you do the sooner you start getting on with life and not thinking everything esle is to blame. I no it's hard but it's the only way to do forward. Take care.

[Motu]

i dont know you from jack, but blaming an off because a helmet made you feel like superman in the rain is a load of crap hahaha every time i get done up in all my wet weather gear i feel like the marshmellow man but it doesn't make me ride beyond my ability in the wet.

It's happened to me too - back when a full face was a new fangled thing the rich boys had....I had one too,but only used it on trips.Spent a week living on the road with a mate,when I noticed a few spots on my visor and noticed my mate,who was fast in the rain,drop back....wimp I thought.I was running a full knob on the rear and a so called street tyre on the front,fully expecting any problems to come from the rear - but the front went out,trapping my right leg under the bike.No,I'm not blaming the helmet,but after so many years of no helmet and open face helmets,being insulated from the feel of rain on my face led me to an error of judgment....and so learned another lesson.Me? Ride beyond my ability? - you better believe it!

[gromit]

I am looking at one of the new style flip up bottom jobs. The old style were as ugly as hell, but the new jobs are pretty much indiscernable at a glance. Doesnt help with wind through the hair (facial??) but it certainly is a great to for someone like myself with specks.

[Smorg]

Thats for sure, but i think that a vespa/scooter MIGHT just be able to go a little faster than a pushie and so injuries would be worse, but not falling off in the first place is definately the way to go.

MAybe downhill with the wind behind them

[Zookey]

:dodge: wear an open helmet,as i get that closet phobia thing,alright behind the windscreen but dont dare lift the bean when on th Busa,cant dodge the bumbles quick enough

[Jackrat]

Get over it sunshine, it's you that have to live with your injury cause you mad3 the fup. It's like the usual story blame the equipment!!!! You got to live with your mistake and the sooner you do the sooner you start getting on with life and not thinking everything esle is to blame. I no it's hard but it's the only way to do forward. Take care.

Read the post again,
The only thing I said was I consider my full face PART of the reason I fucked up.
Never blamed anybody but myself for the results and I do live with it everyday
Or did you miss that bit,,,,sunshine :motu:

[WelshWizard]

A long time since any one posted on this subject , and as I just came across this jem on one of the website I visit,

""
Fatal Facts About Helmets
A Neurosurgeon Speaks the Truth
During World War II, an English neurosurgeon named Cairns compared the head injuries of crashed motorcyclists wearing helmets. Cairns, a Professor of Neurosurgery at Oxford University, noted that helmeted motorcyclists who had broken their facial bones had less serious brain injuries. Clearly, some impact energy had been absorbed by the face or the helmet. From those early studies, the suggestion came that all motorcyclists should wear a helmet.

The only types available then were "inverted pudding bowl" styles that barely covered the short hair style of the day. These had an inner lining of cork or pulp that was used to absorb energy. During the 1960s, the fighter pilot style became popular because it covered the whole scalp, came in colorful fiberglass shells, and had better energy absorption material inside. Gradually helmet standards arose to ensure that helmets were constructed to a standard level that assured adequate impact performance in controlled helmet impact tests.

During the 1970s, full-face helmets (fighter pilot style plus facial protection) gained popularity. Manufacturers argued that if that fighter pilot style helmet had a chin bar, then the whole head and face could be protected. But this presented the helmet standards committees with a dilemma: How to test the performance of the chin bar component when no one was sure about how far it should deflect upon impact? Some said the chin bar should be soft and pliable. Others said it should be hard and inflexible. The rigid school won, and efforts were made to stiffen the chin bar by incorporating strong materials to increase its rigidity.

Early medical reports of facial injury patterns in motorcyclists supported the use of full-face helmets because hospital accident and emergency departments were treating far fewer facial cuts and abrasions among bikers wearing full facial protection. Indeed, it became rate to see an injured motorcyclist with a facial bone fracture if he wore a full-face helmet. All was well for motorcyclists who came to hospitals for treatment after a crash that involved a head impact.

But what about that ever-growing band of motorcyclists who didn't make it to the hospital? Many died in helmets that fitted well, were well adjusted, and were firmly in place at the time of the crash. Of course, some of these had fatal chest and abdominal injuries, but too many seemed to be dying from impacts they should have survived.

During the 1980s, reports from road accident research units worldwide showed an increasing incidence of a particular fatal skull injury among motorcyclists wearing full-face helmets. This common fatal injury was a skull base fracture -- a severe crack across the bones on which the brain sits. To try to explain how these devastating injuries were happening, some associates and I looked in depth at a small number of motorcyclists who had been fatally injured while wearing full-face helmets. At this time, the latest X-ray equipment available for patients with head injuries was computerized CT scanning (CAT scanning). CAT scans could be converted into three-dimensional images to help plan the surgery that crash victims often required. Using CAT scanning techniques, we compared the patterns of injury among 50 motorcyclists admitted to hospitals with 24 motorcyclists killed from similar impacts during the same period. We retrieved the helmets worn and also studied them with the CAT scanner.

Each motorcyclist's head was considered as a four-layered unit: 1) the helmet, 2) the scalp and facial skin, 3) the skull and facial bones, and 4) the brain. Detailed scientific information was gleaned from each of these layers. That information was then fed into a computer-based coding system for analysis. In addition to the CAT scan information, a detailed autopsy was performed on the fatally injured group. An independent neuropathology review was also performed on the brain of each motorcyclist killed.

When analyzed, our results showed that motorcyclists with broken facial bones usually had been wearing helmets that gave little or no facial protection. Furthermore, they had little on the way of brain injury. In contrast, those motorcyclists killed outright often had no facial injury, even if they suffered an impact to the front of the helmet. They did, however, have skull base fractures and unsurvivable brain injuries. Apparently, the blow to the chin bar had been transmitted to the chin strap, increasing its tightness sufficiently to drive the lower jaw upward into the base of the skull. The upward force into the skull base, then, may have caused the fracturing and subsequent brain damage.

The brain damage was concentrated at the critical brain stem region where the spinal cord effectively "plugs into" the base of the brain. Damage in that region is usually instantly fatal.

How Helmets Can Kill

1. Impact to the lower face bar is transmitted via the jaw to the skull.

2. The chin strap forces the jawbone upward.

3. The brain stem is severed.

4. The Helmet Rotates - This pattern of death emerged after four years of research.

Were our findings only present by chance in the sample of motorcyclists we studied? To find out, we performed a second study of 988 brains from autopsies performed on road accident victims. These 988 included 36 cases of unequivocal brain stem injury. The proportion of motorcyclists in that series was double the expected figure, and of the 15 motorcyclists, 13 were known to have been wearing helmets at impact and 11 had been wearing full-face helmets. Furthermore, the principal impact point was the chin bar in one of the bikers.

These findings strengthened the possibility that a blow to a rigid chin bar could be transferred via the chin strap to the lower jaw and then to the skull base, with fatal consequences to the fragile brain stem. If this were so, then how could it be prevented? In collaboration with engineering scientists and computer-aided-design (CAD) experts, we devised a series of solutions. Essentially, they involved the incorporation of an energy absorber into the chin bar of a full-face helmet. This would reduce the impact energy transmitted to the brain stem and, hopefully, transfer a potentially fatal impact victim into the survivable range. The wheels of change in altering safety designs move excruciatingly slow, the the full-face helmet with a soft, pliable chin bar extension may be a suitable alternative.

Let's face it: A motorcyclist's helmet should be worthy of the head upon which it rests.

Rodney D. Cooter, M.D.

Dr. Rodney Cooter is currently the Staff Grader in Plastic Surgery at St. James University Hospital, Leeds, United Kingdom. He trained for five years at the Weapon's Research Establishment in South Australia before completing a four-year training in engineering draftsmanship with Telecom Australia. He studied medicine at the University of Adelaide for six years before commencing surgical training. During his surgical training with the Australian Craniofacial Unit, developed an interest in the engineering aspects of injury to the head and face. In his doctoral thesis-Craniofacial Fracture Patterns-he examined the effects of helmets on injury patterns. This article follows that intensive study.


The Biker eNews is a non-profit public service for the Tidewater and Peninsular Motorcycle Community. We are not affiliated with any organization or business. The Biker eNews is owned, operated and paid for by Phillip Floria. We accept no commercial advertising; our links are links of interest for motorcycle enthusiasts.

""
how safe is your helmet?

[Zuki Bandit]

I guess this guy wouldnt have to worry about chin or jaw injuries!!!

[Motu]

Because of chin bar injuries (levering spinal cord out of brain socket) at one stage all off road helmets had to have shear pins in the chin bar mount....kind of like a crumple zone,it absorbed the impact,and helped prevent spinal cord injuries.

[Hitcher]

Why is everybody suddenly riding Vespa's with open face helmets, saw 3 today in 10 min's. Have they not seen a picture of what happens when you hit the deck with an open face????

Repost.

Or thread dredge.

Or something else I don't much care for.

[Swoop]

Or thread dredge.

Or something else I don't much care for.
From 2005.

This must be the bonus number for the monthly draw...

[heyjoe]

Another open face helmet thread.....

[WelshWizard]

I said it before ,it should be personal choice, if you want no helmet , an open face or a full face your choice how you want to die, not what some one else thinks you should do.its your head and neck.