2014/2015 LAMS options?

[frisken]

Hey guys,

Pretty exciting times to be a learner rider. I have been riding for a few years now, but still haven't gotten around to getting my Restricted license, which means I have at least 18 months until I can get my full and upgrade. In the meantime I am considering a serious upgrade from my current 250 Suzuki, to a bigger, more reliable and future proof LAMS options (up and around the 500 - 650cc range). There are plenty of options now, and I was wondering if anyone had any insight on which direction to go?

My thoughts at the moment are:

Honda CB500F/R

Yamaha MT03

Yamaha MT07

Kawasaki ER6N

I've taken the CB500F for a test ride and freaking loved it. The power was so much more usable, and basically every aspect of the damn bike was 10 times better than my current ride. But this is probably the case with any of the above options, or any new LAMS approved bike, so I'll keep my options open.

Does anyone have an experience shopping around in this range? Any tips/other things to consider?

Cheers!

[dinosaur]

....a serious upgrade from my current 250 Suzuki, to a bigger, more reliable ... options (up and around the 500 - 650cc range). There are plenty of options now, and I was wondering if anyone had any insight on which direction to go?


Kawasaki ER6N[/B]


No contest - the Kwaka
handles,
parallel twin
seat is low and narrow
awesome breaks

.......... and looks cool

[TheDemonLord]

GSX650FU

Nice sport tourer, plenty of power, can be derestricted, looks awesome and I ride one (so you will be cool like me)

[frisken]

Yeah, derestriction is a good one to consider actually. Just enquired about getting my hands on a ER6N demo and looks like they have one available in my town, so looking forward to it. They also have the Triumph 660 Triple, but that looks to be just out of the old price range at the moment although shit it looks good.

Do you know if the the ER6N can be derestricted, dinosaur?

[MisterD]

which means I have at least 18 months until I can get my full and upgrade.

12 months if you do the CBTA stuff.

You can add the LAMS version of the Street Triple to that list too. I looked at all of those options and the good old DR too but because I wanted a toy, not a commuting tool I rejected all the over-500cc options to save on rego and then rejected the Honda because I wanted something with a personality.

[Swoop]

No contest - the Kwaka
handles,
awesome breaks

So, you can pick it up easily when broken?

[frisken]

Taking three bikes for a test ride on Saturday, so will update the thread with my thoughts in case anyone else is interested. I'm taking out:

Kawasaki EX650
Street Triple 660
Gladius SFV650

[F!ddl3r]

I started off on a 650L Kawa, Loved the power and the ride But I hated the damn sound ... and the bubble looking tank!

Having said that it was an amazing bike, glad I started on it to be honest.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-772859034.htm

Thats her ^, I put on all the mods, spent a fortune on it. I sold it to my nephew for his wife, She felt the bike was a bit high for her so he is selling it.

Pity you looking for a 2014/15 model...

[Erelyes]

If finances are limited, then you have the choice of buying a flash bike and then riding it less/skimping on gear, or keep your basic bike and ride it more / get better gear. The depreciation on the bike as soon as it leaves the showroom would be enough to kit you out in reasonable gear alone.

Also - unless your end-goal is a sensible commuter, there's really no future-proof LAMS option...

I stuck it out with my Ninja 250, kept surprising myself with what I didn't know, learnt to ride it competently at pace, then did CBTA and got a 'first big bike'. But then I don't rake in the cash.

If you have sufficient disposable income then buy whichever one makes you hardest when you look at it, then ride ride ride. MT07 would probably be my pick :headbang:

[GrayWolf]

I stuck it out with my Ninja 250, kept surprising myself with what I didn't know, learnt to ride it competently at pace, then did CBTA and got a 'first big bike'. But then I don't rake in the cash.

If you have sufficient disposable income then buy whichever one makes you hardest when you look at it, then ride ride ride. MT07 would probably be my pick :headbang:

I'd agree with Ereleys as to the fact a reasonable performance 250 can keep you 'satisfied' and still learning... I'm still learning after 40 yrs and on 'big bikes'.

I'm biased as I ride an 01, the MT-07 looks a good bet, but it is a new 'quantity' so as yet has no track record of issues/reliability.....
The MT-03 is a 'tried and tested' bike, the (XT660 donk) has been around since Christ was a recruit.

[EJK]

<img src="http://ducatiforum.co.uk/forum/attachments/mt-07-top-jpg.25928/" />

I'm just gonna throw it out there.

[GrayWolf]

<img src="http://ducatiforum.co.uk/forum/attachments/mt-07-top-jpg.25928/" />

Damn that thing is 'small'... but looks like it'll be a good 'urban hoon machine'..... :laugh::laugh:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Damn that thing is 'small'... but looks like it'll be a good 'urban hoon machine'..... :laugh::laugh:

I sat on one and it seems to be very similar ergonomically to my Street Triple.

cool as hell though plus PURPLE.

[lakedaemonian]

A friend just bought a Yamaha MT-07 and he seems really happy with it.

Also, the Harley-Davidson Street 500 is not far off.

It will be showing up at NZ HD dealers by the end of the year.

[f2dz]

Taking three bikes for a test ride on Saturday, so will update the thread with my thoughts in case anyone else is interested. I'm taking out:

Kawasaki EX650
Street Triple 660
Gladius SFV650

They make a LAMS approved Street Triple? Whaaa

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://motorbikewriter.com/street-triple-660/


relephant

[TheDemonLord]

They make a LAMS approved Street Triple? Whaaa

Yeah, new this year to Aus an NZ - I was oogling one, but they were too pricey and weren't availible yet.

[frisken]

Brief update: Took the Triple and the EX650 for a ride yesterday. Was really impressed with the Triple, despite its price tag it was miles ahead of the EX650 and only $1000 difference between the two. The power was just always there on the Triple, and it kept pulling well above the legal limit. Had really strong road presence. It was windy as hell yesterday and the bike held firmly, at times it even felt as though it has a steering dampener but I don't believe they do.

The EX650 was good but a very, very different bike and not really what I am after. It lacked character, probably due to its less aggressive riding position and lack of low-range torque, and just didn't excite the way the Triple did. Being only $1000 less than the Triple, its build felt miles apart as it rattled a bit here and there and generally just felt a little less solid on the road.

Taking out the MT-07 and Gladius 650 today so hopefully that adds more food for thought. So far the Triple is miles ahead, with the Honda CB500F coming in well above the EX650 in my opinion.

[TheDemonLord]

Good to hear you are having fun test riding bikes - if you didn't like the EX650, you probably won't like the GSX650, as both are more sport tourer (which I prefer due to the amount of Kms I rack up)

[frisken]

Now I've got some serious thinking to do ... Really enjoyed the MT-07, not gonna lie it was an awesome machine -- it had plenty of everything you'd want. But then I jumped on the Gladius not expecting much and was really impressed by it. Had great power, sounded great, suspension was really tight and nice, breaking was good etc. Really liked it.

I don't think you can beat the MT-07 on price, that's for sure. The Gladius was great, but not really a looker and a little pricier than the MT-07 and CB500F. Pick of the bunch would definitely be the Triumph, but it does come with that heavier price tag. Is it worth the extra investment? Would it hold its value as well (if not better) than the others?

Anyone have any thoughts on the brands/models? Are there better/worse second-hand markets for each?

I'm hoping to take the CB500F out tomorrow for a test ride so that it will be fresher on my mind for a fairer comparison.

[EJK]

You should also think about maintenance costs to help you make a firm decision. For what I know, Japanese bikes (CB500F, Gladius, EX650, MT-07 etc...) have maintenance schedule of every 6,000kms while European equavalent have 10,000kms maintenance schedule. Faired bikes tends to cost more for servicing (fairings).

Common talk is that European bike parts (genuine factory OEM) are twice or even three times what Japanese parts cost.

2nd hand depreciation is yet far too early to judge at this point IMO.

Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki have rear tyre size of 160 whilist MT07 and Triumph Street Triple have respectful 180 full sized rear tyre. Some say 180/55x17 are more expensive but I tend to disregard the con. You get much more wider choice from 180 because they are the most popular size amongst motorcycles.

Decisions, decisions.

[Erelyes]

You should also think about maintenance costs to help you make a firm decision. For what I know, Japanese bikes (CB500F, Gladius, EX650, MT-07 etc...) have maintenance schedule of every 6,000kms while European equavalent have 10,000kms maintenance schedule. Faired bikes tends to cost more for servicing (fairings).

Common talk is that European bike parts (genuine factory OEM) are twice or even three times what Japanese parts cost.

2nd hand depreciation is yet far too early to judge at this point IMO.

Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki have rear tyre size of 160 whilist MT07 and Triumph Street Triple have respectful 180 full sized rear tyre. Some say 180/55x17 are more expensive but I tend to disregard the con. You get much more wider choice from 180 because they are the most popular size amongst motorcycles.

Decisions, decisions.

Good input.

Interesting on the lower maintenance schedules for 'euro' bikes. Is that a function of higher oil capacity? Covering butt syndrome? Or just what they arbitrarily think is OK?

Ask the dealers to show you the manual to see what the service intervals are gonna be like. Factor into account how often they say to check the valves (and how much of a mission that is), how many sparkplugs, etc.

Depreciation - *shrug*

[TheDemonLord]

Now I've got some serious thinking to do ... Really enjoyed the MT-07, not gonna lie it was an awesome machine -- it had plenty of everything you'd want. But then I jumped on the Gladius not expecting much and was really impressed by it. Had great power, sounded great, suspension was really tight and nice, breaking was good etc. Really liked it.

I don't think you can beat the MT-07 on price, that's for sure. The Gladius was great, but not really a looker and a little pricier than the MT-07 and CB500F. Pick of the bunch would definitely be the Triumph, but it does come with that heavier price tag. Is it worth the extra investment? Would it hold its value as well (if not better) than the others?

Anyone have any thoughts on the brands/models? Are there better/worse second-hand markets for each?

I'm hoping to take the CB500F out tomorrow for a test ride so that it will be fresher on my mind for a fairer comparison.

Also something to consider - is the ease of de-restriction after you get your full.

For example - a Speed Triple Full Fat version is known to be a good all rounder and very popular - but I know the LAMS version is slilghtly different from the Full Fat version - slightly different engine and so de-restricting may be much harder - whereas alot of the Jap bikes are either an ECU change (or wire snip :whistle:) or a change of the throttle stop (achieved by swapping a bracket)

and is the de-restriction reversible? For example - you can change the ECU to a full power ECU once you have got your full, then when you get bored of the 600 and want a Thou, swap the old ECU back in - sell it as a LAMS bike (which hold slightly higher value and depreciate less) for more money than you could sell a non LAMS version.

[EJK]

Also something to consider - is the ease of de-restriction after you get your full.

For example - a Speed Triple Full Fat version is known to be a good all rounder and very popular - but I know the LAMS version is slilghtly different from the Full Fat version - slightly different engine and so de-restricting may be much harder - whereas alot of the Jap bikes are either an ECU change (or wire snip :whistle:) or a change of the throttle stop (achieved by swapping a bracket)

and is the de-restriction reversible? For example - you can change the ECU to a full power ECU once you have got your full, then when you get bored of the 600 and want a Thou, swap the old ECU back in - sell it as a LAMS bike (which hold slightly higher value and depreciate less) for more money than you could sell a non LAMS version.

OR just save a lot of hassle and money and get a MT-07 ;)

[TheDemonLord]

OR just save a lot of hassle and money and get a MT-07 ;)

but that isn't LAMS approved is it?

[Ender EnZed]

but that isn't LAMS approved is it?

NZ and Oz get a slightly small bore to fit it under 660cc. I don't think they bother with the non-LAMS version here.

We get a 655cc 51hp 57Nm version rather than the rest of the world's 689cc 74hp 68 Nm.

[Ender EnZed]

Also something to consider - is the ease of de-restriction after you get your full.

And what de-restricting it might mean given that it'll still be registered as a LAMS model. Did you ever get an official answer after this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/169074-LAMS-derestriction-and-full-licences)?

[TheDemonLord]

And what de-restricting it might mean given that it'll still be registered as a LAMS model. Did you ever get an official answer after this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/169074-LAMS-derestriction-and-full-licences)?

Nope, didn't get an official answer - From everything I have read it seems to be one of those legal gray areas - meaning if you were to find yourself in trouble with the law because of a de-restricted LAMS bike (and you were on a full licence) that you could claim what you did was reasonable (the Man on the Clapham omnibus defence)

[TheDemonLord]

NZ and Oz get a slightly small bore to fit it under 660cc. I don't think they bother with the non-LAMS version here.

We get a 655cc 51hp 57Nm version rather than the rest of the world's 689cc 74hp 68 Nm.

Ah - Thank you kindly,

[Ender EnZed]

Nope, didn't get an official answer - From everything I have read it seems to be one of those legal gray areas - meaning if you were to find yourself in trouble with the law because of a de-restricted LAMS bike (and you were on a full licence) that you could claim what you did was reasonable (the Man on the Clapham omnibus defence)

I can't really imagine it would be a problem on your full as long as your insurance company was aware (called them yet?). But I suspect it'd make more sense in terms of resale value to just sell it LAMS and buy something else, if you want a new bike soon enough anyway.

[frisken]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

Brief update: Took the Honda CB500F for a big ride today, as this was still high on my list. Fucking loved it, that bike is seriously cool. The only thing that bike doesn't have is the same power as the other, bigger 660 bikes. This is pretty worrying, as even during my ride I felt the thrill of the added power start to wear out. Very aware of getting bored of the bike too quick. But other than this fact (which is a pretty big one) the bike was phenomenal. Great road presence, superb handling, nice power curve, tight suspension and great breaks. Ticked all the boxes minus the raw power.

Really didn't love the MT-07, has anyone else ridden them at all? I'm worried the demo I took out was a little quirky in itself. The shift between 3rd and 4th gear was huge and was really unsettling. Always felt like I needed a gear in-between. Upshifting left me outside of the power range and it slugged a little, and shifting down really jolted with engine breaking. The throttle was also really loose (jiggled left/right) and made my right hand feel a bit uneasy. Anyone else have any experience with these? Should I look elsewhere for a demo ride?

Thanks again for all the tips guys, hopefully this thread helps anyone else looking into this market.

[TheDemonLord]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

I have read that too - but no links to anything official (like the NZTA or a Govt website) and only from Australians.

I think once I get my full, I will actually make some inquiries to the NZTA on this - I suspect it will be a case of tell your insurance company, and leave the bike registered as a LAMS bike

[Smartie]

I have read that too - but no links to anything official (like the NZTA or a Govt website) and only from Australians.

I think once I get my full, I will actually make some inquiries to the NZTA on this - I suspect it will be a case of tell your insurance company, and leave the bike registered as a LAMS bike

I have recently bought an ER650L LAMS bike and the on rego documents I have, it does not specifically call it a LAMS bike. It is only a LAMS bike because it is on the list as a LAMS bike and has not been modified to exceed the LAMS spec.

My take on this in NZ is that that as a learner/restricted you have to ride a bike that complies and if you are caught by some means, through accident, police etc., then you will suffer demerits, loss of insurance (probably life/disability insurance to if it is that serious). As a rider on a full licence there is nothing stopping you derestricting the bike, as both you and the bike are compliant. Even Hyosung offer it as a service (at a cost) .It doesn’t say the bike has to be re regoed. If you sell the bike, placing the restrictions back makes it LAMS approved again and any leaner can ride it.

The NZTA site says
“Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.
If you are a rider on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence, it is your responsibility to ensure you are riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer. If in doubt, seek confirmation from the manufacturer's agent or dealership. If you are unsure who to contact, details for all major motorcycle importers are available on the Motor Industry Association website . Failure to comply with the new rules may result in fines and demerit points.”

The NZTA LAMS FAQ pamphlet also says
“What if a motorcycle is on the list and has been modified in a way that has increased its power-to-weight ratio?
Any motorcycle that has been modified to increase its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-complaint and must not be ridden on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence. “
“Can I de-restrict my LAMS-approved motorcycle?
Any modification which increases the power of a motorcycle makes it no longer LAMS compliant. If you increase the power of an approved motorcycle and ride it while you are on a class 6 learner or restricted licence, you would be failing to comply with your license requirements and may be fined.”

the NZTA does not say you have to reregister when derestricting nor does it say that you cannot re restrict the bike back to LAMS compliancy when selling or being ridden by a learners licence holder. Obviously when derestricted it is not LAMS compliant. The NZTA talk only about the bike ridden when you have a specific type of licence, not about the bike itself. As long as it complies when you are riding it with learners/restricted.

Again this is my take on this

BTW I am loving the bike as a LAMS unit. Plenty of power, great handling, and good riding position for a leaner- all whilst still LAMS compliant

[GrayWolf]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

Brief update: Took the Honda CB500F for a big ride today, as this was still high on my list. Fucking loved it, that bike is seriously cool. The only thing that bike doesn't have is the same power as the other, bigger 660 bikes. This is pretty worrying, as even during my ride I felt the thrill of the added power start to wear out. Very aware of getting bored of the bike too quick. But other than this fact (which is a pretty big one) the bike was phenomenal. Great road presence, superb handling, nice power curve, tight suspension and great breaks. Ticked all the boxes minus the raw power.

Really didn't love the MT-07, has anyone else ridden them at all? I'm worried the demo I took out was a little quirky in itself. The shift between 3rd and 4th gear was huge and was really unsettling. Always felt like I needed a gear in-between. Upshifting left me outside of the power range and it slugged a little, and shifting down really jolted with engine breaking. The throttle was also really loose (jiggled left/right) and made my right hand feel a bit uneasy. Anyone else have any experience with these? Should I look elsewhere for a demo ride?

Thanks again for all the tips guys, hopefully this thread helps anyone else looking into this market.

OK, so you think you'll get bored? with the Honda, so, following THAT logic, give you a ZX14 or 'busa.. You'll be bored in a short while? :rolleyes:
The CC rating of 660cc has far less to do with the perceived power delivery, or how its delivered. I can pretty much assure you the Honda will be quicker up top than the 660's. The 650/660's are Singles of around 45bhp, and reasonable low down torque. There are a few 650 LAMS approved multi's as well. The Honda's a twin, so will be a sort of midway point, 4 cyl's WILL give a better 'rush' of power up top.
IF the Honda ticks ALL the REAL important boxes as you state, it's a no brainer surely? You seem to think that power is SO important, as a learner or 'newer' rider, a good easy going, predictable, undaunting bike is THE correct one really. Hence why you'll see experienced riders say the GN250 is one of the ideal totally NEW rider bikes, easy going, etc, etc.

The high performance 250's as an example really were never intended as 'learner bikes', ridden well they can give ANY 'big bike' a severe 'curry up' on the twisties. If you look at the KR1 RG 250's, they were 'all but' as quick on top end as the original 'master blaster' Z1-900. Quicker than any of the old 500-4's, 500-2cyls etc of the 1970/1980's, including quicker up top than the RD400, LC350's.< which were the Hoon's bike of choice in the day. (only 500's that were quicker for top end at the time was the H1's till the RG400/5000, RD500)

Buy the Honda, and enjoy it, if you truly think you'll get bored with it's power? I would in all seriousness say 'adjust' your attitude to power requirements. This 'lust for power' was started with the H1, H2, Z1 which were affordable 'rocketships' of their day. The Z1 has ONLY 85bhp, and was considered 'overpowered' at the time... Bike 'genetics' have improved exponentially since, but the 'species' twisting the throttle's genetics have not advanced one iota in that same time period..

[Ender EnZed]

You might also want to look at the KTM Duke 390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-784668223.htm) or, if you can wait a few months, the RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-755510936.htm). Down a few cc on what you're looking at but by all accounts they go pretty well.

[frisken]

OK, so you think you'll get bored? with the Honda, so, following THAT logic, give you a ZX14 or 'busa.. You'll be bored in a short while? :rolleyes:
The CC rating of 660cc has far less to do with the perceived power delivery, or how its delivered. I can pretty much assure you the Honda will be quicker up top than the 660's. The 650/660's are Singles of around 45bhp, and reasonable low down torque. There are a few 650 LAMS approved multi's as well. The Honda's a twin, so will be a sort of midway point, 4 cyl's WILL give a better 'rush' of power up top.
IF the Honda ticks ALL the REAL important boxes as you state, it's a no brainer surely? You seem to think that power is SO important, as a learner or 'newer' rider, a good easy going, predictable, undaunting bike is THE correct one really. Hence why you'll see experienced riders say the GN250 is one of the ideal totally NEW rider bikes, easy going, etc, etc.

The high performance 250's as an example really were never intended as 'learner bikes', ridden well they can give ANY 'big bike' a severe 'curry up' on the twisties. If you look at the KR1 RG 250's, they were 'all but' as quick on top end as the original 'master blaster' Z1-900. Quicker than any of the old 500-4's, 500-2cyls etc of the 1970/1980's, including quicker up top than the RD400, LC350's.< which were the Hoon's bike of choice in the day. (only 500's that were quicker for top end at the time was the H1's till the RG400/5000, RD500)

Buy the Honda, and enjoy it, if you truly think you'll get bored with it's power? I would in all seriousness say 'adjust' your attitude to power requirements. This 'lust for power' was started with the H1, H2, Z1 which were affordable 'rocketships' of their day. The Z1 has ONLY 85bhp, and was considered 'overpowered' at the time... Bike 'genetics' have improved exponentially since, but the 'species' twisting the throttle's genetics have not advanced one iota in that same time period..

You get me all wrong. I'm hardly talking about trading it all in for a Fireblade purely for power here, I'm talking about the longevity of a machine I'm going to be spending upwards of $10,000 on in keeping me both entertained and providing me the abilities to grow more experienced for a longer period of time. No LAMS option is going to offer the greatest amount of power out there -- but there are ones that excite more than others, offering more usable power for specific riding styles.

To say that power doesn't matter on a bike is just stupid. No, I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa, I am a guy who's been riding for 3+ years who is looking for the next step in my biking journey. If power doesn't matter I would be perfectly happy on a GN250, or Ninja 300 as both of these bikes are great for what they were made to do. But neither of these bikes fulfil my requirements. As shallow as it sounds, I am looking for a bike with more power; otherwise I'd be keeping my 250.

Now, the Honda was great. All I'm saying is that the Triumph (and some of the others) felt to have more usable power, and I felt like there was room to grow into these machines more so than the Honda.



You might also want to look at the KTM Duke 390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-784668223.htm) or, if you can wait a few months, the RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-755510936.htm). Down a few cc on what you're looking at but by all accounts they go pretty well.

Cheers dude, yeah I'm quite keen on taking out the RC390. Looks like a great machine, and I'd be interested in seeing how a 400 delivers on the open road (commuting on a highway etc). Have you had a good look into these yourself?

[BlackSheepLogic]

I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa

Quite judgmental for someone claiming to know little about bikes. The reasons behind the choice of a bike are many and come down to needs as well as wants. Bikes like the busa or ZX14R serve a purpose and maybe the bike of choice for a rider regardless of experience. The power & performance of these bikes is only one aspect and it does not define the the rider.

[Ender EnZed]

Cheers dude, yeah I'm quite keen on taking out the RC390. Looks like a great machine, and I'd be interested in seeing how a 400 delivers on the open road (commuting on a highway etc). Have you had a good look into these yourself?

Not really but there have been a couple of threads about them on here.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154864-KTM-Duke-390
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/161867-Ktm-rc390

This (http://bikesonsky.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/honda-cb500f-vs-ktm-390-duke-to-remember.html) suggests the Duke 390 puts out almost exactly the same peak power as the CB500 on a dyno but is 41kg lighter on the scales. That is a fucking massive difference.

[frisken]

Quite judgmental for someone claiming to know little about bikes. The reasons behind the choice of a bike are many and come down to needs as well as wants. Bikes like the busa or ZX14R serve a purpose and maybe the bike of choice for a rider regardless of experience. The power & performance of these bikes is only one aspect and it does not define the the rider.

I'm not saying that anyone who buys a Busa is a squid. I'm saying there are people who go and buy the fastest bike they possibly can without learning how to ride properly (squids).


Not really but there have been a couple of threads about them on here.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/154864-KTM-Duke-390
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/161867-Ktm-rc390

This (http://bikesonsky.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/honda-cb500f-vs-ktm-390-duke-to-remember.html) suggests the Duke 390 puts out almost exactly the same peak power as the CB500 on a dyno but is 41kg lighter on the scales. That is a fucking massive difference.

Awesome! Cheers dude. Will check them out, a place here has the 390 Duke demo I believe, so will have to give it a look.

[GrayWolf]

You get me all wrong. I'm hardly talking about trading it all in for a Fireblade purely for power here, I'm talking about the longevity of a machine I'm going to be spending upwards of $10,000 on in keeping me both entertained and providing me the abilities to grow more experienced for a longer period of time. No LAMS option is going to offer the greatest amount of power out there -- but there are ones that excite more than others, offering more usable power for specific riding styles.

To say that power doesn't matter on a bike is just stupid. No, I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa, I am a guy who's been riding for 3+ years who is looking for the next step in my biking journey. If power doesn't matter I would be perfectly happy on a GN250, or Ninja 300 as both of these bikes are great for what they were made to do. But neither of these bikes fulfil my requirements. As shallow as it sounds, I am looking for a bike with more power; otherwise I'd be keeping my 250.

Now, the Honda was great. All I'm saying is that the Triumph (and some of the others) felt to have more usable power, and I felt like there was room to grow into these machines more so than the Honda.

?

OK after 40 years of riding I am stupid to say 'power doesnt matter'...... :baby: :cool:

go back half a century and power was around 50-60BHP. I've owned/own fast powerful bikes, still have the ZZR 1100 which as I have pointed out is still 'plenty quick'. 'ONLY' has 135bhp. My current regular ride has 'ONLY' 90bhp but, 110ft lbs of torque... I owned an underpowered? XT660 Tenere which has 'ONLY' 45bhp, It still did 100-110kph cruising, had power to overtake, wasnt phased by hills, had more than enough acceleration for getting in front of traffic.

Torque is as important a factor in power delivery, as the dreaded oft quoted bhp figures. The high performance 250's have amazing BHP for the engine size, but you have to thrash the fuck out of them to get that performance. The XTZ 660, probably isnt as quick down the 1/4 mile, but for overtaking, you wont be playing tunes on the gearbox. Similar top speed performances though.
Sorry but your post came across as I WANT POWER! and your own words said you'd get bored with the Honda's power, which is as much as the old Brit 650's (50-60bhp) back then there was nothing more powerful. Even the popular modern take on the Bonnie has ONLY 60 odd bhp.

Maybe I'm an OLD FART. Accepted. :2thumbsup: However I am more interested in a bike's roll on performance, how it handles 2 up (load/overtaking) etc etc. How it 'feels' to sit on (ergo's) and of course whether I like it.

Probably the best quote I can offer you is from an owners group.... BHP, how fast you hit the wall, Torque, how far you take it with you. ;)

[Ender EnZed]

Torque is as important a factor in power delivery, as the dreaded oft quoted bhp figures. The high performance 250's have amazing BHP for the engine size, but you have to thrash the fuck out of them to get that performance. The XTZ 660, probably isnt as quick down the 1/4 mile, but for overtaking, you wont be playing tunes on the gearbox. Similar top speed performances though.
Sorry but your post came across as I WANT POWER! and your own words said you'd get bored with the Honda's power, which is as much as the old Brit 650's (50-60bhp) back then there was nothing more powerful.

I certainly didn't read that. All of the bikes he's looking at are LAMS models and built to be just under the 150kW/T limit. The peak powers are very similar and the difference he's feeling is torque and usable power throughout the rev range, which is what you're in favour of.

Unless you want him to buy a 50 year old Triumph.

[GrayWolf]

I certainly didn't read that. All of the bikes he's looking at are LAMS models and built to be just under the 150kW/T limit. The peak powers are very similar and the difference he's feeling is torque and usable power throughout the rev range, which is what you're in favour of.

Unless you want him to buy a 50 year old Triumph.

I wonder if the 650 Bonnie would be 'LAMS' approved? :killingme

[Ender EnZed]

I wonder if the 650 Bonnie would be 'LAMS' approved? :killingme

Well actually, the LAMS list does include all pre 1984 Triumphs up to 650cc.

[GrayWolf]

Well actually, the LAMS list does include all pre 1984 Triumphs up to 650cc.

Well there's an interesting idea.... Lets learner approve 'oddball' bikes with a right hand gear change! (650cc Triumph's etc)

Shame they didnt just use power/weight rather than a CC limit, the modern 750cc Guzzi's would probably fall into the power/weight category. Would be good learner machines as well.

[MisterD]

Shame they didnt just use power/weight rather than a CC limit, the modern 750cc Guzzi's would probably fall into the power/weight category. Would be good learner machines as well.

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.

[Ender EnZed]

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.

A larger capacity engine doesn't necessarily mean a heavier bike any more than it means more power though. If learners shouldn't be riding a heavy bike then the limit should be on weight (as well as power to weight).

The 660cc limit is just lazy thinking carried over from the old 250cc limit.

[Ender EnZed]

Well there's an interesting idea.... Lets learner approve 'oddball' bikes with a right hand gear change! (650cc Triumph's etc)

Yeah, I guess it's a bit like the IT465 and some others. It was technically allowed based on the data they used but the odds of someone finding a road legal one, deciding it'd be a good idea to learn to ride on it, and then binning it are so low that it just doesn't matter.

[GrayWolf]

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.

The 750 Guzzi uses the same bottom end as the 400/500/650 cc bikes of the 80's. Weight and size would be about the same. I've ridden the 1990's 750 ones, and the power/performance is very similar to the old 650/750cc Brit machines.

[frisken]

After seeing soo much publicity about the bloody MT-07 around the net, I took one for another ride on Monday, up in Auckland. Felt a lot more comfortable this time around. I didn't notice the little niggles that originally put me off the last time. Really enjoyed it this time. That extra power is great, and incredibly useful at any RPM.

Ended up putting a deposit on one the following day. The guy said they have sold 10 of them in the past month, and have another 7 coming in, 3 of which have already been sold. Bloody popular machine, but for good reason I'm hoping!

In conclusion to my original question: From what I can see, you can't really go wrong with that range of bikes at the moment. They all felt great, even though they all had fairly different approaches to the same problem. Pretty excited to pick up the MT though, that thing excites!

[breakaway]

IMO buying new vehicles is a HUGE waste of money. You will lose a TON of money on the bike as soon as its wheeled off the showroom floor. Being a 'first bike', it will likely get dropped and possibly treated like shit.

Buying a beater for learning and then graduating to a 'proper' bike is the way to do it. At least that way you don't lose a ton of money on a machine that you will likely sell in a year or so.

[5ive]

IMO buying new vehicles is a HUGE waste of money. You will lose a TON of money on the bike as soon as its wheeled off the showroom floor. Being a 'first bike', it will likely get dropped and possibly treated like shit.

Buying a beater for learning and then graduating to a 'proper' bike is the way to do it. At least that way you don't lose a ton of money on a machine that you will likely sell in a year or so.

Depends on the bike and what you're using it for, and any prior experience you may have. I'm glad I bought 'new' as I have a 2 year warranty, and don't have to worry about fixing/replacing parts all of the time. I'm using my bike to commute around Auckland every day during the week, and to travel around parts of the North Island on most weekends.

I certainly wouldn't want to be doing that on a second hand learners bike that has been "dropped and possibly treated like shit" :msn-wink:

I could even see myself keeping it as an "around town" bike after gaining my full license, or sell it to pay a deposit on another 'new' bigger bike, not always a bad investment considering the currently over-priced second-hand LAMS market.

[Sushi Bandit]

not always a bad investment considering the currently over-priced second-hand LAMS market.

True, once all these new LAMS bikes (like the MT-07) have depreciated a bit it in a couple of years it will be a real buyers market for learner riders.

[frisken]

Thanks for the opinion, but I'm not a new rider so I don't plan on "dropping it" or "treating it like shit" (I will probably drop it now, after saying that). Also, I would consider this a "proper bike" despite its LAMS label. You should take some of these bikes for a ride one day, there's nothing "unproper" about them.

I appreciate the feedback though, just sucks it came through the day after I put down my deposit. I plan on keeping this bike for many years yet, thus the investment. The LAMS market should hold its value too. Just because there is an influx of newer, larger options doesn't mean that the market is going to depreciate. The only market that will depreciate will be the 250cc market.

Anywho, I'm pretty fucking excited for the bike. And it seems I'm not the only person who's investing in an MT-07 seeing as they're selling like hotcakes (in fact, from what I've heard, most of the larger LAMS options are selling well). Will have to fill you all in once I've got it on the rode and tested it out properly for a few weeks! :)

[mossy1200]

In all honesty sometimes a bike with less power makes you feel like your riding it rather than walking it.
Most bikes go fast easily and gets used a small fraction of their potential.
Having owned a MT01 I would buy MT07 or MT03 as a one up fun weekend bike while keeping the 14 for 2 up and long distance riding with luggage.

[GrayWolf]

Thanks for the opinion, but I'm not a new rider so I don't plan on "dropping it" or "treating it like shit" (I will probably drop it now, after saying that). Also, I would consider this a "proper bike" despite its LAMS label. You should take some of these bikes for a ride one day, there's nothing "unproper" about them.

I appreciate the feedback though, just sucks it came through the day after I put down my deposit. I plan on keeping this bike for many years yet, thus the investment. The LAMS market should hold its value too. Just because there is an influx of newer, larger options doesn't mean that the market is going to depreciate. The only market that will depreciate will be the 250cc market.

Anywho, I'm pretty fucking excited for the bike. And it seems I'm not the only person who's investing in an MT-07 seeing as they're selling like hotcakes (in fact, from what I've heard, most of the larger LAMS options are selling well). Will have to fill you all in once I've got it on the rode and tested it out properly for a few weeks! :)

Likelihood is, given a couple of years or so, you will either be able to purchase an 'upgrade ECU from yamaha' ( for which they will charge like a wounded bull), or, as with the MT-01, there are a couple of guys who can reflash (upgrade) your existing ECU, or have S/hand 'full power' ones available. From what I've read the only 'diff' physically is the bore is 2mm smaller on the LAMS version to bring the CC rating down. So I'd imagine the power difference between the upgraded LAMs bike and a 'full MT-07' would be bugger all.

[jamiestreet]

All this love for the MT 07 has me really interested...

I'm in my learner period and am looking for a new bike to last me for a (longer) while. The MT 07 looks quite good for this...
It is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of looks - I love these naked bikes A LOT. The only concern I have is power... 50HP doesn't seem like it would last me very long. Is this the full power of the bike or is this the restricted power? I kind of suspect the former? I am investing in a bike now for the long haul and don't really want to be disappointed in a year's time with the power. If anyone else has been in a similar situation with a similar bike I'd love some input. I use my bike around town (CHCH) and for about 15 minutes of open (straight) road twice a day. I'd like to also be able to do longer trips in the future though - would this bike handle them alright? Longer being 350-450ks a day.

Thanks

[GrayWolf]

All this love for the MT 07 has me really interested...

I'm in my learner period and am looking for a new bike to last me for a (longer) while. The MT 07 looks quite good for this...
It is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of looks - I love these naked bikes A LOT. The only concern I have is power... 50HP doesn't seem like it would last me very long. Is this the full power of the bike or is this the restricted power? I kind of suspect the former? I am investing in a bike now for the long haul and don't really want to be disappointed in a year's time with the power. If anyone else has been in a similar situation with a similar bike I'd love some input. I use my bike around town (CHCH) and for about 15 minutes of open (straight) road twice a day. I'd like to also be able to do longer trips in the future though - would this bike handle them alright? Longer being 350-450ks a day.

Thanks

Ok I'll play nice.....

If you read all the posts regarding theMT-07 AND actually google, you'll see 50bhp is the LAM's version. As for '50bhp' not lasting you very long. Really?? Bikes like the XT, KLR, DR 650 ONLY have about 45bhp..... and they seem to last people plenty of time....
BHP is all about speed, not necessarily about USEABLE power in the real world (torque). You can do big distances on aGN250 if you want to... just allow oodles of time! So a 50bhp, 700cc bike, will easily cope with 400km's.

[jamiestreet]

Ok I'll play nice.....

If you read all the posts regarding theMT-07 AND actually google, you'll see 50bhp is the LAM's version. As for '50bhp' not lasting you very long. Really?? Bikes like the XT, KLR, DR 650 ONLY have about 45bhp..... and they seem to last people plenty of time....
BHP is all about speed, not necessarily about USEABLE power in the real world (torque). You can do big distances on aGN250 if you want to... just allow oodles of time! So a 50bhp, 700cc bike, will easily cope with 400km's.

Hi, thanks for your reply.
I know the bike was originally designed as a 690cc bike in other markets with 75~ish horsepower. I've read that Yamaha has actually changed the bike for our markets (reducing bore to get <661cc etc). I was wondering if when they did this change, the power output now is actually the full output the bike can produce, or instead if it is restricted.

As for the speed thing, fair enough about the useable power notion. I do believe that everyone is different though when it comes to the power matter. Also when I was asking about long trips, I was more talking about the comfort of the bike (naked so no wind protection, seat, vibrations etc.) I know the Bike would handle highway cruising speeds fine power wise :)

Thanks for your reply.

[frisken]

How long have you been riding for? Sounds like we're in a similar position.

Your first post alluded to your concerns being around a lack of power, your second post was more focused on touring comfort. I'll try to answer both, as best I can from a LAMS rider's POV of the MT-07.

If you read through the thread you'll see my posts. Over a period of a few weeks I took out most of the larger LAMS bikes currently available: Gladius 650, Triumph Street Triple 660, Kawasaki ERF-6, Honda CB500F and the Yamaha MT-07. I won't delve too deeply into the ins and outs of each bike, but I was hugely impressed by the Triumph, the Honda and now the MT-07.

Reason for not buying the Triumph: Too expensive. This was a great bike, and added a lot of thrill to the ride. Felt great in basically every aspect, but the dealer wouldn't budge at all on the price, in fact when I inquired he even put the price up $1000 because Triumph had changed their pricing (apparently).

Reason for not buying the Honda: Lack of usable power. Everything felt great about the CB500F, and it sounds like I had similar concerns to what you have: Getting too comfortable with the power too early on. It lacked a little "passing power" up around the 110km/h - 140km/h range, which I was really hoping to get. We're also talking a $10000 investment here, you want it to keep you excited.

Reason for buying the MT-07: Ticked the right boxes. Take one for a ride and see how it feels. The "usable power" mentioned above means a fuckload more than any bhp number written on paper. The bike had plenty of go, where ever you were sitting on the rev range. The wheel comes up taking off in first, then again in second and feels feather light in third if you give it enough and still has plenty of go when you're passing at highway speeds.

Comfort of the MT-07: Hard to say without giving it a good slog. I certainly didn't feel any aches, pains or niggles during my 45 or so minute test ride, but you shouldn't. You can get touring screens etc to alleviate the wind, but it's a naked. If you want/need a touring machine, buy a touring bike. It's a naked, and is good for what it's good for -- street riding.

My advice is: Go out and take them for test rides.

[jamiestreet]

How long have you been riding for? Sounds like we're in a similar position.

Your first post alluded to your concerns being around a lack of power, your second post was more focused on touring comfort. I'll try to answer both, as best I can from a LAMS rider's POV of the MT-07.

If you read through the thread you'll see my posts. Over a period of a few weeks I took out most of the larger LAMS bikes currently available: Gladius 650, Triumph Street Triple 660, Kawasaki ERF-6, Honda CB500F and the Yamaha MT-07. I won't delve too deeply into the ins and outs of each bike, but I was hugely impressed by the Triumph, the Honda and now the MT-07.

Reason for not buying the Triumph: Too expensive. This was a great bike, and added a lot of thrill to the ride. Felt great in basically every aspect, but the dealer wouldn't budge at all on the price, in fact when I inquired he even put the price up $1000 because Triumph had changed their pricing (apparently).

Reason for not buying the Honda: Lack of usable power. Everything felt great about the CB500F, and it sounds like I had similar concerns to what you have: Getting too comfortable with the power too early on. It lacked a little "passing power" up around the 110km/h - 140km/h range, which I was really hoping to get. We're also talking a $10000 investment here, you want it to keep you excited.

Reason for buying the MT-07: Ticked the right boxes. Take one for a ride and see how it feels. The "usable power" mentioned above means a fuckload more than any bhp number written on paper. The bike had plenty of go, where ever you were sitting on the rev range. The wheel comes up taking off in first, then again in second and feels feather light in third if you give it enough and still has plenty of go when you're passing at highway speeds.

Comfort of the MT-07: Hard to say without giving it a good slog. I certainly didn't feel any aches, pains or niggles during my 45 or so minute test ride, but you shouldn't. You can get touring screens etc to alleviate the wind, but it's a naked. If you want/need a touring machine, buy a touring bike. It's a naked, and is good for what it's good for -- street riding.

My advice is: Go out and take them for test rides.

Thanks for your reply mate - very informative. I will try and get the MT 07 out for a test ride as soon as possible. I've been riding now for about 6 months as a daily - in all conditions really - and just looking for an upgrade that will be worthwhile & keep me going for a few years into the future. My current bike doesn't even lift the front wheel in first at full throttle :p

90% of my riding will definitely be around town, with the odd ~two-three hour round trip somewhere occasionally. I've ridden the CBR and was not very impressed with it's power (specifically overtaking). I'm trying to get a test ride in at a dealership here as soon as possible. Do you know if the bike is 'restricted' in power (as in it can be made more powerful by removing restrictors) or that is actually the full power of this market-specific bike? I'm also looking at a Ninja 650 - but I really don't like the fairing layout of it. Feels too busy for me, too much plastic and a lot of it really doesn't feel very high quality. I'll try and take one for a test ride though at some point.

Thanks.

[frisken]

Thanks for your reply mate - very informative. I will try and get the MT 07 out for a test ride as soon as possible. I've been riding now for about 6 months as a daily - in all conditions really - and just looking for an upgrade that will be worthwhile & keep me going for a few years into the future. My current bike doesn't even lift the front wheel in first at full throttle :p

90% of my riding will definitely be around town, with the odd ~two-three hour round trip somewhere occasionally. I've ridden the CBR and was not very impressed with it's power (specifically overtaking). I'm trying to get a test ride in at a dealership here as soon as possible. Do you know if the bike is 'restricted' in power (as in it can be made more powerful by removing restrictors) or that is actually the full power of this market-specific bike? I'm also looking at a Ninja 650 - but I really don't like the fairing layout of it. Feels too busy for me, too much plastic and a lot of it really doesn't feel very high quality. I'll try and take one for a test ride though at some point.

Thanks.

I've been riding for 3 years now, all on a 250! :P Really looking forward to my upgrade.

I believe the MT-07 is restricted, although the only physical difference (as someone mentioned above) is that the bore is 2mm smaller. The rest is restricted via ECU. In saying that, I have heard from multiple people that they can't even notice a difference between the full powered model and the LAMS approved model, especially at legal speeds.

In terms of derestricting them ... You'll have some things to consider such as re-registering your bike as a non-LAMS model, and then when it comes to resale, you'll probably want to reverse that process (re-restrict it, and re-register it back to a LAMS model) so that you get a higher value. TBH I wouldn't bother with that myself, but we'll see how I get on in the future.

Yeah I didn't particularly like the Ninja 650. The throttle itself is restricted, and it becomes really noticeable. Whereas on the MT-07, you never feel like the bike is restricted in any way. The power curve is also very different on the Ninja, and I very much preferred the low/mid range torque the MT offered.

[NZM0NK3Y]

Good thread with lots of interesting points. Sounds like there's a few people all in the same boat. Learner rider, sometimes without much experience, looking for a decent long term machine to keep for a few years.

I'm on a learner licence and I've currently got the KTM Duke 390. Had a Duke 200 before that and traded in last year. Really like it, especially the light weight and low seat height given my short arse nature, but can't help but be tempted by the Street Triple or MT-07. Have ridden them both and the torque available make them so easy to jump on and go. OK - both restricted in power from the equivalent full on models but how many times are you really going to be caning the top end in the real world ?

Would go for the Triumph in a second if money were no object (but sadly it is). MT-07 a very close second and currently in negotiations with the "better half" about finances ....

Pretty important to consider the depreciation as well though. I'd planned to keep the D390 long term but that was before the Triple and MT-07 were available. I got a trade in quote from both dealers for my bike and nearly had a heart attack !

[Ender EnZed]

Good thread with lots of interesting points. Sounds like there's a few people all in the same boat. Learner rider, sometimes without much experience, looking for a decent long term machine to keep for a few years.

I'm on a learner licence and I've currently got the KTM Duke 390. Had a Duke 200 before that and traded in last year. Really like it, especially the light weight and low seat height given my short arse nature, but can't help but be tempted by the Street Triple or MT-07. Have ridden them both and the torque available make them so easy to jump on and go. OK - both restricted in power from the equivalent full on models but how many times are you really going to be caning the top end in the real world ?

Would go for the Triumph in a second if money were no object (but sadly it is). MT-07 a very close second and currently in negotiations with the "better half" about finances ....

Pretty important to consider the depreciation as well though. I'd planned to keep the D390 long term but that was before the Triple and MT-07 were available. I got a trade in quote from both dealers for my bike and nearly had a heart attack !

I take it you liked the MT-07 and Street Triple more than your KTM 390. What did you find the differences were?

[mossy1200]

Good thread with lots of interesting points. Sounds like there's a few people all in the same boat. Learner rider, sometimes without much experience, looking for a decent long term machine to keep for a few years.

I'm on a learner licence and I've currently got the KTM Duke 390. Had a Duke 200 before that and traded in last year. Really like it, especially the light weight and low seat height given my short arse nature, but can't help but be tempted by the Street Triple or MT-07. Have ridden them both and the torque available make them so easy to jump on and go. OK - both restricted in power from the equivalent full on models but how many times are you really going to be caning the top end in the real world ?

Would go for the Triumph in a second if money were no object (but sadly it is). MT-07 a very close second and currently in negotiations with the "better half" about finances ....

Pretty important to consider the depreciation as well though. I'd planned to keep the D390 long term but that was before the Triple and MT-07 were available. I got a trade in quote from both dealers for my bike and nearly had a heart attack !

You shouldn't be in a rush. Sell your 390 privately and then buy the MT07. You will sell it due to it being lams for a good amount plus without trade should pull a better deal at the purchase end also.

[GrayWolf]

Hi, thanks for your reply.
I know the bike was originally designed as a 690cc bike in other markets with 75~ish horsepower. I've read that Yamaha has actually changed the bike for our markets (reducing bore to get <661cc etc). I was wondering if when they did this change, the power output now is actually the full output the bike can produce, or instead if it is restricted.

As for the speed thing, fair enough about the useable power notion. I do believe that everyone is different though when it comes to the power matter. Also when I was asking about long trips, I was more talking about the comfort of the bike (naked so no wind protection, seat, vibrations etc.) I know the Bike would handle highway cruising speeds fine power wise :)

Thanks for your reply.


Restricted version..... (LAMs) again if you read the spec for a 'full power' MT-07, the fact it's 'restricted' would indicate it can be 'un-restricted'.. it really depends on HOW the restriction is done that is going to be cost effective to modify, or not. Knowing Yamaha it will be an ECU restriction (ignition curve etc) and as I pointed out in another post, there is an active MT owners group with members who are dealers, tuners and racers in Europe (I kid you not, there is a guy in Finland who has ICE RACED a tuned up MT-01). From experience, Yamaha charge like a wounded bull for ECU's and there are active members who can reflash (MT-01 at present) ECU's to stage 2 or 3, using your OEM one. I would hazard a guess they will be getting into the 09 and 07 ECU's at sometime.

Advising on a bikes comfort and long term suitability would be like telling you whether a woman is the right one to be your wife, before you've met her and tried her out (dated etc). I own the MT-01, it vibrates, throbs and shakes, some people dislike that (one KB member who test rode one said "it vibrates like a bastard"). He's used to the smoothness of multi's, (which can 'buzz' at certain speeds) I personally love that I can feel that huge V twin 'working', and compared to an old Brit bike? Vibrate??:laugh::laugh:
The 07 is a twin, and I believe has a balance shaft, so vibration will be 'low' is my guess. The 'throb, shaking etc' of the 01 was 'built in' to the bike's concept. Again apples to oranges, if you think the 07 vibrates on riding one, get a ride on one of the old XS650 twins :devil2:
Seat comfort? How big/small is your ass? Body comfort (ergo's) your height, build, leg, arm length..... injuries? Only way you will know is to ride one a distance. A small 'fly screen' is a useful addition, they can be removed (bar mounted) for summer, replaced for winter or distance riding I own an MRI one and do 'just that'.

You've got some info from an 07 owner........ My advice to both would be join the MTOG (MT owners group) and read the info in there (the 07 and 09 already have an active section).

[jamiestreet]

Restricted version..... (LAMs) again if you read the spec for a 'full power' MT-07, the fact it's 'restricted' would indicate it can be 'un-restricted'.. it really depends on HOW the restriction is done that is going to be cost effective to modify, or not. Knowing Yamaha it will be an ECU restriction (ignition curve etc) and as I pointed out in another post, there is an active MT owners group with members who are dealers, tuners and racers in Europe (I kid you not, there is a guy in Finland who has ICE RACED a tuned up MT-01). From experience, Yamaha charge like a wounded bull for ECU's and there are active members who can reflash (MT-01 at present) ECU's to stage 2 or 3, using your OEM one. I would hazard a guess they will be getting into the 09 and 07 ECU's at sometime.

Advising on a bikes comfort and long term suitability would be like telling you whether a woman is the right one to be your wife, before you've met her and tried her out (dated etc). I own the MT-01, it vibrates, throbs and shakes, some people dislike that (one KB member who test rode one said "it vibrates like a bastard"). He's used to the smoothness of multi's, (which can 'buzz' at certain speeds) I personally love that I can feel that huge V twin 'working', and compared to an old Brit bike? Vibrate??:laugh::laugh:
The 07 is a twin, and I believe has a balance shaft, so vibration will be 'low' is my guess. The 'throb, shaking etc' of the 01 was 'built in' to the bike's concept. Again apples to oranges, if you think the 07 vibrates on riding one, get a ride on one of the old XS650 twins :devil2:
Seat comfort? How big/small is your ass? Body comfort (ergo's) your height, build, leg, arm length..... injuries? Only way you will know is to ride one a distance. A small 'fly screen' is a useful addition, they can be removed (bar mounted) for summer, replaced for winter or distance riding I own an MRI one and do 'just that'.

You've got some info from an 07 owner........ My advice to both would be join the MTOG (MT owners group) and read the info in there (the 07 and 09 already have an active section).

Thanks very much for your reply! Yep you are right it is subjective per person as to how the bike feels in terms of comfort. I test rode one today and I think if I were to get one I would go for the gel seat option. Very fun bike - so torquey... Power wheelies in second were fun, coming from my ninja 250 which couldn't even do them in first..

I swore the bike was unrestricted it was that quick, but yes a reflash would probably be the way to derestrict it in the future once I'm on my full license. I can look into that closer to the time. Cheers

[NZM0NK3Y]

I take it you liked the MT-07 and Street Triple more than your KTM 390. What did you find the differences were?

Don't get me wrong - I love the D390. Goes well, stops well with ABS as standard (missing from MT-07) and from my (limited) experience handles well also. Awesome for commuting from the Shore to south Auckland for work, kills it in traffic on the highway. Looks and feels tiny compared to almost everything else. Have had zero complaints about it and makes a great first bike

I guess I'm like everyone on here though - just want to ride and try as many bikes as possible and nowadays they're almost all good ! So many good LAMS options, which I suppose is the whole point of the thread

Street Triple had that lovely smooth engine and a real "premium" feel and being a Pom I like the idea of a Triumph. Price rules that out till Lotto come calling though

MT-07 just felt like a bigger version of the D390 in many ways I guess. Looks great and a step forward from the MT-03, which I looked at before I got my D390 but didn't really fancy