Oh buggggggggggggggggggar

[husaberg]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/65xd81cj7pA/hqdefault.jpg
Four More years boys........... Four more years


I guess it is what happens when the opposition party goes with a wet tea towel as a leader.

[YellowDog]

That's four more years as in Three more years aye... ?

[jim.cox]

Another re-run of the "John, Gerry and Judy" show

I think I'm going to barff

[Virago]

...Four More years boys........... Four more years...

What farking country are you in...?

[husaberg]

That's four more years as in Three more years aye... ?

Yip I couldn't even find it as a gif either Bloody GCSB must be blocking it:(

[oldrider]

Sigh .. just the result I was hoping for, under the circumstances ... an excellent result! . . . Three years from now, hopefully something better! :niceone:

Kim.com gave us this result ... now hopefully he will fuck off! :wait:

[husaberg]

What farking country are you in...?

The rock star economy one, the envy of the world..........It's for sale if you want to buy it.

[puddy]

Sigh .. just the result I was hoping for, under the circumstances ... an excellent result! . . . Three years from now, hopefully something better! :niceone:

Kim.com gave us this result ... now hopefully he will fuck off! :wait:

Plus one!:banana:

[gjm]

Bit of a disaster. National gained, Labour and the Greens lost, and the Conservatives didn't get 5%.

I just hope that in 3 years there is enough of NZ left to be recognisable, and that National won't have tied us the the grindwheel of the TPPA.

[pete376403]

Expect all of that, and more.

[oldrider]

Bit of a disaster. National gained, Labour and the Greens lost, and the Conservatives didn't get 5%.

I just hope that in 3 years there is enough of NZ left to be recognisable, and that National won't have tied us the the grindwheel of the TPPA.

Tppa is Zionist USA driven and as an established Zionist bank past associate and of Jewish extraction it is easy to see where John Key's loyalties are most likely to be!

So yes it will be a very interesting next three years! :shifty:

[mashman]

I just hope that in 3 years there is enough of NZ left to be recognisable, and that National won't have tied us the the grindwheel of the TPPA.

Didn't jk say that they'd be looking into that in November? Could be fun.

[PrincessBandit]

Tppa is Zionist USA driven and as an established Zionist bank past associate and of Jewish extraction it is easy to see where John Key's loyalties are most likely to be!


Shhhhh! Akzle will be jumping in soon!

[tribsanor]

common sense prevails , I might be able to come home when I retire !

[SPman]

Well - they say you get the government you deserve, which, when it comes to a country returning one of the most corrupt governments NZ has seen (and there have been some beauts), tells you a lot about the mentality and outlook of the inhabitants - and from outside, it's not a good look! Have a good three years - I won't be returning any time soon...maybe wait until the country is totally stuffed then come in and pick up some cheap pieces, instead of selling up end of next year and returning as originally planned.............

[jasonu]

Hardly surprising result. It was obvious even from over here.

[unstuck]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha suckers. Good luck, you muppets are gonna need it. :clap:

[Stylo]

Surprising result, I thought it would have been closer than that, - the country has made a statement that's for sure.

Thanks Nicky Hager and Dotcom, Harre etc for all your help in facilitating this most excellent of outcomes, couldn't be better . Awesome !

[trustme]

I suspect Winston was very much a double edged sword , the more likely it was that he could be king maker the more concerned the majority of the electorate became . There was only one solution, to vote national. Ended better than I expected, yes I wanted Key back, I dreaded Winston back in a govt role . Oppositions don't win elections, serving govts lose them. Nat had not done enough wrong to lose , a cobbled up coalition did not deserve the mandate to win.

[skippa1]

Well - they say you get the government you deserve, which, when it comes to a country returning one of the most corrupt governments NZ has seen (and there have been some beauts), tells you a lot about the mentality and outlook of the inhabitants - and from outside, it's not a good look! Have a good three years - I won't be returning any time soon...maybe wait until the country is totally stuffed then come in and pick up some cheap pieces, instead of selling up end of next year and returning as originally planned.............
We hadn't even noticed you'd gone...........don't come back now yah hear

[skippa1]

I suspect Winston was very much a double edged sword , the more likely it was that he could be king maker the more concerned the majority of the electorate became . There was only one solution, to vote national. Ended better than I expected, yes I wanted Key back, I dreaded Winston back in a govt role . Oppositions don't win elections, serving govts lose them. Nat had not done enough wrong to lose , a cobbled up coalition did not deserve the mandate to win.
Yep.......wot ^^^^said

[husaberg]

I suspect Winston was very much a double edged sword , the more likely it was that he could be king maker the more concerned the majority of the electorate became . There was only one solution, to vote national. Ended better than I expected, yes I wanted Key back, I dreaded Winston back in a govt role . Oppositions don't win elections, serving govts lose them. Nat had not done enough wrong to lose , a cobbled up coalition did not deserve the mandate to win.



Yep.......wot ^^^^said

Yeah but a cobbled up collation was the last two National governments as well remember.

Golly I remember a referendum on asset sales, they went ahead with them anyway, said they had the mandate.
All I can say is imagine the mandate they think they have now.
NZ will have more electricity deregulation and the consumer will pay through the nose for that.
All our Mineral reserves will be sold.

[trustme]

Yeah but a cobbled up collation was the last two National governments as well remember.

Golly I remember a referendum on asset sales, they went ahead with them anyway, said they had the mandate.
All I can say is imagine the mandate they think they have now.
NZ will have more electricity deregulation and the consumer will pay through the nose for that.
All our Mineral reserves will be sold.

National in both those elections had the largest percentage of the vote enabling them to form a govt with support from minor parties
Labour was looking to form a govt from 3 minor parties locking out the party with the greatest percentage of the vote
Slight difference

[husaberg]

National in both those elections had the largest percentage of the vote enabling them to form a govt with support from minor parties.
Labour was looking to form a govt from 3 minor parties locking out the party with the greatest percentage of the vote.

Slight differenceYes and no, if you go left vs right the numbers don't tally as the governments were formed.
Maybe that is another one of the lefts problems the left vote is too split.
The differences are there is not the great divide Left vs Right that there was once.
NZ first used to lower the national party vote... but now is more left leaning........ depending on what way the wind blows.
It would be interesting to look at how much money was spent left vs right..........
Hats off though the national campaign was especially slick this year with regards to the party vote.
Labour was pretty ineffectual (as it has been for the last 3 campaigns.)
They seem unable to select a leader that has any form of charisma at all.

[trustme]

I thought Cunliffe has the potential to grow into the job. Clark took a few hidings but they stuck with her & it paid off. Head to head with Key he is right there. Labour does not know who it is any more. I'll find Damien OConnors comment when I come back from my ride . He was on the money.

[sidecar bob]

All our Mineral reserves will be sold.
We'll they can't suck money out of their thumbs to pay back the massive debt that nine years of Labor got us into my deviant friend.

[yokel]

[QUOTE=husaberg;1130772907
They seem unable to select a leader that has any form of charisma at all.[/QUOTE]

Charisma = testicles and David cuntlips has none.
David not admiting defeat is why Labour has no future. Telling his "team" they did a awesome job when they lost is retarded.

The failure of Labour and greens tell me that people are over socialism,
At least we're going in the right

[Scuba_Steve]

Sigh .. just the result I was hoping for, under the circumstances ... an excellent result! . . . Three years from now, hopefully something better! :niceone:

Kim.com gave us this result ... now hopefully he will fuck off! :wait:

The right wing propaganda machine had a lot to do with it

It's funny tho of the top 10 concerns for NZers (voted by more people than voted in election) National is bad for at-least 9 of them... Yet here we are, humans are stupid no doubt.

[unstuck]

humans are stupid no doubt.

:yes::yes::yes:

[yokel]

The right wing propaganda machine had a lot to do with it

It's funny tho of the top 10 concerns for NZers (voted by more people than voted in election) National is bad for at-least 9 of them... Yet here we are, humans are stupid no doubt.

If humans are stupid then their top 10 concerns would most likely not be top 10 concerns.

[admenk]

oh well, life goes on I suppose.

[Ocean1]

Well - they say you get the government you deserve, which, when it comes to a country returning one of the most corrupt governments NZ has seen (and there have been some beauts), tells you a lot about the mentality and outlook of the inhabitants - and from outside, it's not a good look! Have a good three years - I won't be returning any time soon...maybe wait until the country is totally stuffed then come in and pick up some cheap pieces, instead of selling up end of next year and returning as originally planned.............

The fact that you can chuck stones about corruption from Australia sorta demonstrates how one eyed you are.

And I figure the result is more of a pointer that Kiwis already knew how politicians of all colours behave, but considered the cynical muck raking from the bright green Hager and the contrived appeal to the neo-conspiracy-freaks by Dotcom and Co to be particularly distasteful.

I don't think Labour did anything wrong, outside of milking the above circus for all it was worth, I think the party's decline is just directly coupled with that of the unions that own it. The 80% of NZ that is small enterprises have seen the damage unions did when given the chance and see Labour in power as more of the same.

[macka77]

Well - they say you get the government you deserve, which, when it comes to a country returning one of the most corrupt governments NZ has seen (and there have been some beauts), tells you a lot about the mentality and outlook of the inhabitants - and from outside, it's not a good look! Have a good three years - I won't be returning any time soon...maybe wait until the country is totally stuffed then come in and pick up some cheap pieces, instead of selling up end of next year and returning as originally planned.............

Do us a favor and don't come back

[MisterD]

It's obvious that what people have voted for is stability. People are feeling generally positive about the direction the country's heading and opted for the only competent-looking combination.

Labour need to give the reins to Davis and spend the next six (yes, six) years talking sense and looking competent.

[roogazza]

Great, I did my bit, now lets get rid of MMP .
I was overseas when they conned everyone into that shit.:bleh:

[tri boy]

Feel a bit sorry for Hone.
He has said some dumb things in the past, but wanting to feed/house kids isn't a bad thing.
Maybe his chubby German mate can pass him a lazy 100mill, just before he enters the departure lounge.:bye:

[pete376403]

We'll they can't suck money out of their thumbs to pay back the massive debt that nine years of Labor got us into my deviant friend.

"That is despite a huge blow-out in net core Crown debt since National took office, with a rise from $10 billion in 2008 to $50b now and forecasts it will top $70b by 2015. " http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6957341/Labour-cops-debt-blame

So $10B in was disastrous but $50-70B is just fine and dandy and deserving of another three years?

[nodrog]

So $10B in was disastrous but $50-70B is just fine and dandy and deserving of another three years?

Its what the people wanted.

[husaberg]

We'll they can't suck money out of their thumbs to pay back the massive debt that nine years of Labor got us into my deviant friend.

I call bullshit bob
The debt has been accrued by the boys in Blue.
In fact the fiscal responsible ones are borrowing on a massive scale.
Debt since they took over is growing alarmingly.... this is their doing.... they have been in too long to blame Auntie Helen for that.
The whole time the Nats were in opposition, they moaned that there should be tax cuts......
That labour was keeping to much money to pay off debt, have you forgotten this.....

[SPman]

We'll they can't suck money out of their thumbs to pay back the massive debt that nine years of Labor got us into my deviant friend.
And if you believe that claptrap - have I got a Beehive for you!

I like Craig Murray's comment after the Scottish referendum


I have no sympathy at all for anybody who voted No on the grounds of the pledges by Brown, Miliband, Cameron and Clegg about constitutional change, and is now whingeing about the blatant dishonour of those pledges. I cannot understand how anybody could be so stupid as to have believed them, and yet have a brain capable of sparking respiration.

[Yow Ling]

Even the home of the Labour party voted Blue about 48%, putting Damien in didnt have any effect on the outcome,
What does that say about the left when the West Coast votes for the Nats

[SPman]

The fact that you can chuck stones about corruption from Australia sorta demonstrates how one eyed you are.

And I figure the result is more of a pointer that Kiwis already knew how politicians of all colours behave, but considered the cynical muck raking from the bright green Hager and the contrived appeal to the neo-conspiracy-freaks by Dotcom and Co to be particularly distasteful.

I don't think Labour did anything wrong, outside of milking the above circus for all it was worth, I think the party's decline is just directly coupled with that of the unions that own it. The 80% of NZ that is small enterprises have seen the damage unions did when given the chance and see Labour in power as more of the same.
At least in Aus you can genuinely go bush and be thousands of Km from the fuckers - and Aus has the ACCC, which is doing something, rather than nothing and having a feild day at State level at the moment - and yes, there is a perception that politicians of all colours behave appallingly, but, it shouldn't be, and wouldn't be if enough people took it up and stopped them in their tracks. By agreeing with a bad code of behaviour and then labelling everyone with the same brush, saying "it's just how it is - I don't like it....but!", indicates that you tacitly approve of that shit behaviour.

Labour hasn't been in the thrall of the unions in NZ for quite some years - not like the corrupt unioneering pressure put on by the Aussie Labour party. Unions, like all organisations, tend to become self serving bureaucracies if not cleared out and kept on track - eventually, like most organisations, without regular cleansing, the scum rises to the top. Labour still has too many residues of the Roger Douglas years and still doesn't know what it wants to be and where it should be heading. It's developing, but it's too engrossed with fighting itself, fighting potential allies and dreaming of glory days when it used to be a party as large as National. I think Cunliffe is the best fighter in Labour and they should keep him...if they can refrain from the traditional left wing bloodletting.....
National, for all it's infighting, presents a slick appearance on the surface which wooes the punters....and it presents a face of "Financial Competence and stability", which is woefully at odds with it's actual performance, but sucks in the voters time after time.....the modern National party and it's ilk have no concern about small business holders - they consort with the big boys and look after them, relying on "trickle down to sprinkle over small business - but - it's enough to fool people, and has worked for decades.......

I think John is right.....Key back in is an excellent result - perhaps the turmoil of the next 3 yrs will galvanise something new.......

[JimO]

time for cuntlips to apologise for being a loser as well as a man

[trustme]

I call bullshit bob
The debt has been accrued by the boys in Blue.
In fact the fiscal responsible ones are borrowing on a massive scale.
Debt since they took over is growing alarmingly.... this is their doing.... they have been in too long to blame Auntie Helen for that.
The whole time the Nats were in opposition, they moaned that there should be tax cuts......
That labour was keeping to much money to pay off debt, have you forgotten this.....

If you want the Nats to stop borrowing, which part of their budget should they take a knife to first to balance the books. Health , education , maybe they could slash the cost for law & order by introducing the death penalty. Fuck the dole bludgers let them eat cake, Lets up the pension age to 75. They did not create the GFC , they have simply had to manage their way through it.
If they had balanced the budget you would really have something to snivel about.

And yes I do blame Clark & Sullen for a lot of that. In the boom times they locked in costs that would always be unsustainable when the downturn came, as it inevitably would.

[gjm]

FFS!

Have so many people forgotten that National got in on the back of promises of 3, year-on-year, tax cuts, at a time when the rest of the world was staring down the barrel of the GFC gun?

National are borrowing more than an extra $1,000,000,000 a month, and that's a massive reduction.

Debt left over from Labour? Debt was falling. And falling...

This doesn't mean I feel Labour were right in their policies, but I'm confident they are breathing a sigh of relief that they don't have to deal with tens of billions of dollars of debt run up by National, with absolutely no plan or way to repay it other than taxing the hell out of everyone in NZ, and selling everything they possibly can to overseas buyers.

Labour may not be better, but National are so wrong in so many ways it frankly scares me that so many people just seem incapable of seeing it.

OK. I'm over it. Job's done, National are in, TPPA is a pretty sure thing and I'll be unsurprised to see destitution on a wide scale as a result. (Of course, the same could have happened with any other party, but this way it seems pretty much guaranteed rather than just possible.)

The term post mortem has rarely seemed so apt. http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/21/election-2014-a-post-mortem-a-wake-and-one-helluva-hang-over/

[trustme]

They are not borrowing a billion dollars a month , get your facts right

[husaberg]

If you want the Nats to stop borrowing, which part of their budget should they take a knife to first to balance the books. Health , education , maybe they could slash the cost for law & order by introducing the death penalty. Fuck the dole bludgers let them eat cake, Lets up the pension age to 75. They did not create the GFC , they have simply had to manage their way through it.
If they had balanced the budget you would really have something to snivel about.

And yes I do blame Clark & Sullen for a lot of that. In the boom times they locked in costs that would always be unsustainable when the downturn came, as it inevitably would.

Bit late in the game to be still blaming labour isn't it.
THE GFC is a result of right wing policies on a global scale, the manufacturing of worth from thin air. It collapsed and the tax payers funded the fixing not the ones who profited from it
Here the nats masterminded a Bailing out Rio Tinto clever,
The Nats also pushed the funded the fixing of the private financial intitutions by tax payers.... WHY , doesn't fit user pays does it?
Ïf the tax system world wide and in NZ was just.... would Facebook be paying less tax in NZ than a dole blogger does........
Whose snivelling? oh yes ...you "its all Labours fault still........

[trustme]

Please edit that post so that it makes some sort of sense
I have never blamed Labour for the GFC , I do think they left us in a poor position to cope with it. When people spout on about the Nats borrowing, I don't see they had much choice other than undertake massive spending cuts. I don't like the borrowing but those were the cards they were dealt.
I didn't like Rogernomics but those were the cards the Lange govt were dealt , they had no choice

[Yow Ling]

Bailing Rio Tinto saved more than 3000 jobs, if they let it go what would you say then ?

The taxpayer through the National led govt has paid how much toward Pike River, not because they were bailing their rich mates, but because it was probably the right thing to do.

Labour couldnt make Facebook, Google, Amazon pay taxes here either, maybe if they collected more gst at the border this would help

[husaberg]

Bailing Rio Tinto saved more than 3000 jobs, if they let it go what would you say then ?

The taxpayer through the National led govt has paid how much toward Pike River, not because they were bailing their rich mates, but because it was probably the right thing to do.

Labour couldnt make Facebook, Google, Amazon pay taxes here either, maybe if they collected more gst at the border this would help
No it didn't save 3000 jobs, about 600 jobs were delayed in order to go ahead with the sale of power generators.
They were given (again) massive tax breaks and even more favourable pricing structures Than what they had signed up for (a contract)
No Mike the nats spent nothing on Pike....
They just made Solid energy buy it
Then guess what happened? solid energy got in the shit, borrowed a lot of money money they couldn't afford to to pay, then a dividend they had to pay, to the government.
SO who never got bailed out? Solid Energy a NZ owned SOE.
last count the direct job losses were about 1200........ Yet no bail out. I wonder how long it is before they are for sale? The company is worthless, but the assets (mineral permits) are pretty valuable..........
ACC was a big investor in (Read HUGE) (NZOAG part owners in pike) they were a secured creditor, But NZOAG they still did pretty well last year...........:laugh:

[Yow Ling]

No it didn't save 3000 jobs about 600 jobs were delayed in order to go ahead with the sale of power generators.
They were given again massive breaks
No Mike the nats spent nothing on Pike....
They just made Solid energy buy it and they guess what happened? solid energy got in the shit borrowed a lot of money they couldn't afford to to pay a dividend they had to to the government and who never got bailed out Solid Energy a NZ owner SOE
last count the direct job losses were about 1200 yet no bail out. wonder how long it is before they are for sale the company is worthless but the assets (mineral permits) are pretty valuable..........
ACC was a big investor in (Read HUGE) (NZOAG part owners in pike) they were a secured creditor, But NZOAG they still did pretty well last year...........:laugh:

Pike River $10,900,000 http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/operation-pike-costs.pdf

Yes you right not 3000 jobs at Tiwai just 800 , insignificant really.

Re NZOAG isnt being a limited liability company supposed to limit your liability ?

Didnt Labour stop forestry in large areas of the coast?

I guess some things we will never agree on

[Swoop]

Bit of a disaster. National gained, Labour and the Greens lost, and the Conservatives didn't get 5%.
No disaster at all, in fact quite a good result. A stable government for 3yrs, harawera & hare gone, AND the lunatic fringe party took a hit.


Well - they say you get the government you deserve,
No, wrong again. NZ has the only credible government. The leftists' have no idea how to run a piss-up in a brewery, let alone be "responsible".

Thanks Nicky Hager and Dotcom, Harre etc for all your help in facilitating this most excellent of outcomes, couldn't be better . Awesome !
The "backfire of the century". For sure.

Labour hasn't been in the thrall of the unions in NZ for quite some years...
Sorry, wrong again. If we look into the funding of political parties, unions are a significant factor.

[husaberg]

Pike River $10,900,000 http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/operation-pike-costs.pdf

Yes you right not 3000 jobs at Tiwai just 800 , insignificant really.

Re NZOAG isnt being a limited liability company supposed to limit your liability ?

Didnt Labour stop forestry in large areas of the coast?

I guess some things we will never agree on

Like I said less jobs than solid energy which is a NZ owner company
Labour never stopped forestry they stopped indigious milling
The Nats gave away ownership of the lands the crown forest was on as a treaty settlement though
then SOE that ran them (Timberlands)went out of business now that they had to pay for land they previously owned though.
The labour party when it stopped the native logging paid the West coast 120 million as a compensation package.

yeah the fact that NZOAG got paid even though they were the major owner and ran the place
The contractors never got paid,only the banks and the secured creditor including the owners.
Sure that is their fault the contractors for being trusting in the word of the parent company.
11 million on running a investigation and a rescue mission that accomplished nothing is not a bail out Mike.

You are right Mike, we probably won't ever agree as I live here, I drive past all the memorials (every day)
for people that died as a result of negligence of a system where profit was put ahead of people. NZOAG.
I live where the people accountable have never been held accountable for their actions and inactions.
I feel the safe way about the CTV build as well.

[Yow Ling]

Like I said less jobs than solid energy which is a NZ owner company
Labour never stopped forestry they stopped indigious milling
The Nats gave away ownership of the lands the crown forest was on as a treaty settlement though
then SOE that ran them (Timberlands)went out of business now that they had to pay for land they previously owned though.
The labour party when it stopped the native logging paid the West coast 120 million as a compensation package.

yeah the fact that NZOAG got paid even though they were the major owner and ran the place
The contractors never got paid,only the banks and the secured creditor including the owners
sure that is their fault the contractors for being trusting in the word of the parent company.
11 million on running a investigation and a rescue mission that accomplished nothing is not a bail out Mike.

OK Glenn, I was just blowing out of a hole on my head.

Fact is NZ didnt want a Labour govt this time round, That fact I have right

[husaberg]

OK Glenn, I was just blowing out of a hole on my head.

Fact is NZ didnt want a Labour govt this time round, That fact I have right

This is true, the voters don't lie, the politicians (both sides) do.

[Ocean1]

Labour hasn't been in the thrall of the unions in NZ for quite some years -

What?

http://www.elections.org.nz/sites/default/files/parties/rules/Labour%20Party%20Constitution%20and%20Rules.pdf

I got sick of scrolling through the hundreds of instances of "union" in the document but figured you'd do that yourself if you were interested enough.

"AFFILIATES
48) An affiliate of the Party is any Trade Union or other organisation, which has applied for membership, subscribes to the Constitution and Policy of the Party, and has been approved by the New Zealand Council."

Care to take a shot at how many unions are NOT approved affiliates?

The Labour party leadership is elected largely by the unions, it isn't just in thrall to the unions, it's owned by them, lock, stock and barrel.

[Woodman]

Cunliffe showed his desperation and his stupidity, and lost any respect I had for him when he used the recovery of the bodies in the Pike river mine as an election issue.:no:

Fucked if I know why the Coasters stick by Labour really. Can't still be the blackball thing surely.

[husaberg]

Cunliffe showed his desperation and his stupidity, and lost any respect I had for him when he used the recovery of the bodies in the Pike river mine as an election issue.:no:

Fucked if I know why the Coasters stick by Labour really. Can't still be the blackball thing surely.

Lesser of two evils even if one of them is pretty gormless.
We have three MP's in again this year one green, one National and one Labour.
Same as last election we might be more savvy with the voting than you think.....:laugh:
3 Mp's and 30000 in the electorate.
Maureen Pugh is actually a nice honest person. I know her reasonably well.
Level headed and articulate. AS is Damien O'connor a genuine nice guy, likely too nice and honest (both of them) for politics.

West Coast last election was National as an electorate and party vote I believe.
Damian Oconnor only got in last time after a retirement on the list.
The green guy gets in on a party vote obviously.

[JimO]

Yes you right not 3000 jobs at Tiwai just 800 , insignificant really.


unless your one of the 800 or from Southland

[unstuck]

unless your one of the 800 or from Southland

Quite a few from Tiwai live in central otago. :shifty:

[neels]

The only real question from the election was how much the nats were going to get, and who they would have to get into bed with to form a govt, this obviously scared people enough to swing the vote to the nats. Labour were always fucked, and the Greens are well out on the lunatic fringe these days.

Hone got what he deserved for buddying up with the fat german, watching him squirm on the telly as the results came in was a highlight of the election coverage, internet mana gone thank god.

Good old Peter Dunne gets to sleep in his chair for another 3 years and vote however he's told, he must be a damn good electorate mp because he seems to be fuck all use for anything else.

Winston doesn't get his face on the tv every night while he decides who he's going to side with, seems like that's all he's in it for these days.

[Pussy]

I'm delighted with the result. That is all...

[sidecar bob]

I'm delighted with the result. That is all...

I bet Destiny Suspension is too! :msn-wink:

[yokel]

I'm delighted with the result. That is all...

Time will tell.

The left wing is dead and I hope the right wing is not too far behind.

[caspernz]

I'm delighted with the result. That is all...

Yep, same here

[Oakie]

Well I'm happy with the way things turned out.
- Happy that National got back in.
- Happy Winston doesn't get to play King-maker
- Happy that Internet Party fell on their faces. A little bit said for Hone as collateral damage. He's not really my cup of tea politically but he was earnest in his beliefs and he did provide a bit of colour (and I don't mean that in a race way).

Funny listening to all the 'reasons' Labour didn't do well from so many people today. The odd thing is that no one said anything about the possibility that the public just didn't like their policies!

[mstriumph]

We hadn't even noticed you'd gone...........don't come back now yah hear

Voted for the unmentionables that got returned to government, did you? To my mind that makes you one of the fuckwits that's too apathetic, stupid and short-sighted to learn from the past and, therefore, willing to endorse these newly-elected, self-interested, venal parasites making NZ a crippled, destitute place where welfare is the only growth industry.

You think that turning the economy into a wasteland and chasing away productive, talented people like the person you are being snide about is a sensible move, do you?

I left too - same reasons as him by the sound of it. Also like him, I'll be back ... and when I do it'll be YOUR house I buy up cheap because you can't afford it any longer - and YOUR bike I'll be taking off your hands at a fire sale price so that YOU can have a few bucks to buy a loaf of bread. Muppet.:yes:

[mstriumph]

The fact that you can chuck stones about corruption from Australia sorta demonstrates how one eyed you are.

And I figure the result is more of a pointer that Kiwis already knew how politicians of all colours behave, but considered the cynical muck raking from the bright green Hager and the contrived appeal to the neo-conspiracy-freaks by Dotcom and Co to be particularly distasteful.

..........................

Australian politics smell ... fact of life
NZ politics smell ... fact of life
No need for brickbats for recognising those facts, irrespective of where you're currently domiciled?

The saddest thing, to my mind, it that the thinking voter in BOTH countries is left with the task of choosing the 'least bad'.

Politicians of any colour who actually care FIRST about the welfare of the people they are supposed to represent ... are there any such? were there ever any such?

Difficult to be an optimist about the next 3 years no matter where you are. Sad.

[skippa1]

Voted for the unmentionables that got returned to government, did you? To my mind that makes you one of the fuckwits that's too apathetic, stupid and short-sighted to learn from the past and, therefore, willing to endorse these newly-elected, self-interested, venal parasites making NZ a crippled, destitute place where welfare is the only growth industry.

You think that turning the economy into a wasteland and chasing away productive, talented people like the person you are being snide about is a sensible move, do you?

I left too - same reasons as him by the sound of it. Also like him, I'll be back ... and when I do it'll be YOUR house I buy up cheap because you can't afford it any longer - and YOUR bike I'll be taking off your hands at a fire sale price so that YOU can have a few bucks to buy a loaf of bread. Muppet.:yes:
Your opinion doesn't matter.....you don't live here......you don't contribute tax to our economy.......you want to come back to our country and take advantage of our citizens by buying them out of their assets with money you didn't earn here or pay taxes on here........in other words, you are a parasite. Stay where you are.....we don't want you any more than we want kim dot con

you will not buy me out of anything, I earn plenty.

[yokel]

Australian politics smell ... fact of life
NZ politics smell ... fact of life
No need for brickbats for recognising those facts, irrespective of where you're currently domiciled?

The saddest thing, to my mind, it that the thinking voter in BOTH countries is left with the task of choosing the 'least bad'.

Politicians of any colour who actually care FIRST about the welfare of the people they are supposed to represent ... are there any such? were there ever any such?

Difficult to be an optimist about the next 3 years no matter where you are. Sad.

"It doesn't matter who the people voted for; they always vote for us"

[Oakie]

Politicians of any colour who actually care FIRST about the welfare of the people they are supposed to represent ... are there any such? were there ever any such? .

Hone Harawira. Racist prick that he was. Grudging respect. Incidentally, funniest line of the election is from Kelvin Davis, the guy who beat Hone. Refering to the Internet/Mana party he said “There was a lot of promises, a lot of hope and excitement but it was all steam and no hangi”.

[scumdog]

Hone Harawira. “There was a lot of promises, a lot of hope and excitement but it was all steam and no hangi”.

The above sums up Hone to a 'T'!:niceone:

[JimO]

.............301205

[scumdog]

Well - they say you get the government you deserve, which, when it comes to a country returning one of the most corrupt governments NZ has seen (and there have been some beauts), tells you a lot about the mentality and outlook of the inhabitants - and from outside, it's not a good look! Have a good three years - I won't be returning any time soon...maybe wait until the country is totally stuffed then come in and pick up some cheap pieces, instead of selling up end of next year and returning as originally planned.............


Oh yes, Aussie politics are SO much more honest and transparent....

Oh, and the Aussie economy is winding down at a greater rate than you realise.:yes:

[skippa1]

Well I'm happy with the way things turned out.
- Happy that National got back in.
- Happy Winston doesn't get to play King-maker
- Happy that Internet Party fell on their faces. A little bit said for Hone as collateral damage. He's not really my cup of tea politically but he was earnest in his beliefs and he did provide a bit of colour (and I don't mean that in a race way).

Funny listening to all the 'reasons' Labour didn't do well from so many people today. The odd thing is that no one said anything about the possibility that the public just didn't like their policies!
Good summary

[Scuba_Steve]

If you want the Nats to stop borrowing, which part of their budget should they take a knife to first to balance the books. Health , education , maybe they could slash the cost for law & order by introducing the death penalty. Fuck the dole bludgers let them eat cake, Lets up the pension age to 75. They did not create the GFC , they have simply had to manage their way through it.
If they had balanced the budget you would really have something to snivel about.

And yes I do blame Clark & Sullen for a lot of that. In the boom times they locked in costs that would always be unsustainable when the downturn came, as it inevitably would.

Maybee you missed the fact National's already cut funding to health, education, "law & order" all while borrowing more & taxing higher... But hey never let facts get in the way of a fanboy rant right.

[skippa1]

Maybee you missed the fact National's already cut funding to health, education, "law & order" all while borrowing more & taxing higher... But hey never let facts get in the way of a fanboy rant right.
And your alternative in a global financial crisis to borrowing to maintain all those services would be.........?
easy to throw stones but I don't see any alternatives being thrown in the mix

[husaberg]

And your alternative in a global financial crisis to borrowing to maintain all those services would be.........?
easy to throw stones but I don't see any alternatives being thrown in the mix

Let privately financial institutions fail, its the free market. That is what is meant to happen with right wing ideals..........
If you can afford to invest in either the stock market or with a building society you can afford to loose it.
If you can't you are either greedy or stupid.
why should average tax payers fund this?
How much has the Wall street bail out cost...... for what benefit.
All it did was make the rich richer at the cost of everyone else.

[skippa1]

Let privately financial institutions fail, its the free market. That is what is meant to happen with right wing ideals..........
If you can afford to invest in either the stock market or with a building society you can afford to loose it.
If you can't you are either greedy or stupid.
why should average tax payers fund this?
How much has the Wall street bail out cost...... for what benefit.
All it did was make the rich richer at the cost of everyone else.
And that would fix unemployment too........oh hold on.......no, but it will reduce social welfare pay outs right?........ah no......good call......politics is so easy

[Daffyd]

If you want the Nats to stop borrowing, which part of their budget should they take a knife to first to balance the books.

Halve the politicians' salaries. Simple!

[sidecar bob]

Halve the politicians' salaries. Simple!

Fantastic idea, they halved the frequency of W.O.F inspections which has fucked up the motor trade a tad without a second thought.

[skippa1]

Halve the politicians' salaries. Simple!
That will attract a better class of politician:facepalm:

[trustme]

Dumb question. Why has that caused the motor industry a problem ? Just asking

[husaberg]

And your alternative in a global financial crisis to borrowing to maintain all those services would be.........?
easy to throw stones but I don't see any alternatives being thrown in the mix


And that would fix unemployment too........oh hold on.......no, but it will reduce social welfare pay outs right?........ah no......good call......politics is so easy

As simple as your understanding of how the world works.
You were unable to counter the points I made, otherwise you would have, instead of the condescending rhetoric.
They didn't need to borrow to bail out private institution's.......... they wanted to... they did so to protect their friends.
Their free market ideals were for sale.........

[Oakie]

Halve the politicians' salaries. Simple!

Well that saves $10.9 million. Drop in the bucket.

Actually I don't begrudge them the salaries they're on for the hours they do and the fact that they have to re-apply for their job every three years. Take Andrew Little. Wonder what he's going to do now? Find another trade union to be secretary of I guess.

[sidecar bob]

Dumb question. Why has that caused the motor industry a problem ? Just asking

Because we now have about twice as many wof inspectors as we require & they are landing in the dole queue as I predicted they would.

[Ocean1]

Politicians of any colour who actually care FIRST about the welfare of the people they are supposed to represent ...

...are destined to disappoint everyone. The very first thing you need in order to help anyone is a strong "productive sector", and the left simply don't provide an environment in which that's possible.

Personally, I care rather a lot more about the utter waste of human potential represented by those typically needing support. But rather than automatically blame everyone else for their lack I'd ask why they haven't taken responsibility for their own success in a world where that's never been so easy.

[trustme]

One final question , has it materially affected the standard of safety of the vehicles on the road ?.

[oldrider]

Will arguing with each other for the next three years solve anything?

We have three years to identify the problems and form a "united front" to try and force the government to take the direction "we" want the country take!

A very big ask but not insurmountable ... take a firm grip on the testicles and the head and the heart will follow ... anyone up for grabs? :blip:

[Daffyd]

One final question , has it materially affected the standard of safety of the vehicles on the road ?.

They don't seem to have any sort of WOF system here and the general condition of vehicles is bloody appalling! A few examples:

1. The infamous Jeepney. This is the preferred mode of transport for most Filipinos. Of the ones I have travelled in, at least 80% have NO tread on their tyres.

2. The infamous Jeepney. 60% have at least a half turn of play in the steering.

3. The infamous Jeepney. At least 50% have wrong coloured lights, eg some have GREEN tail lights; a lot have white, some have orange stop lights, some white. Some have rows of lights across the bonnet below the windscreen, some RED, some blue. Some have a row of floodlights/spotlights across the roof, front and back, and many combinations of the above.

4. Buses. Some of these are a bloody disgrace! Almost every week there is news of one leaving the road, killing several passengers; often driver error, but also mechanical misadventure. One actually "fell off" the skyway in Manila and landed on a van, killing the sole occupant. (Bald tyres in wet conditions.)

5 Trucks. These "fall over" with regular monotony, often as a result of the container not being properly secured and they slide partway off, causing a rollover. Last week this happened, killing the driver of the SUV beside it.

6. Motorcycles. (Known as "Motor") here. I will include "Tricycles" m/c's with sidecars here. Many of these also have the same lighting issues as the Jeepneys.

What I'm trying to say here is that there is NO regular check of any of these, and the Traffic Police are too busy trying to keep traffic moving. A WOF is absolutely necessary for safety on the roads. In answer to your question, it may not have yet, but give it time.

[Scuba_Steve]

Because we now have about twice as many wof inspectors as we require & they are landing in the dole queue as I predicted they would.

So what youre saying is this business doesnt actually offer any wanted service but insteed relies on handouts by form of forced inspections, so a leech

[mossy1200]

So what youre saying is this business doesnt actually offer any wanted service but insteed relies on handouts by form of forced inspections, so a leech


The worst thing is when you introduce 12 month warrant of fitness it is business as normal for the first 6 months then almost nothing for the next 6 as only newly introduced and old vehicles to the system will be in need during that 2nd half.

[buggerit]

And your alternative in a global financial crisis to borrowing to maintain all those services would be.........?
easy to throw stones but I don't see any alternatives being thrown in the mix

Buy less BMW limo,s?:lol:

[Laava]

The worst thing is when you introduce 12 month warrant of fitness it is business as normal for the first 6 months then almost nothing for the next 6 as only newly introduced and old vehicles to the system will be in need during that 2nd half.

Plus a new vehicles wof is valid for 3 yrs.

[mstriumph]

Your opinion doesn't matter.....you don't live here......you don't contribute tax to our economy.......you want to come back to our country and take advantage of our citizens by buying them out of their assets with money you didn't earn here or pay taxes on here........in other words, you are a parasite.

YOUR country, ooooh, how arrogant :nono:
- it's my country too ..... mebbe (by your yardstick of money being important) mine more than yours as, with respect, I've probably paid more in tax etc in NZ than you have.

If, on the other hand, you think your status as (I assume) a CURRENT NZ taxpayer makes the country more yours than mine, it follows that you also consider yourself superior to NZ pensioners? ... as in it doesn't matter how much they paid in tax during their working life there, they aren't contributing to the coffers now so it's no longer THEIR country either? Are THEY parasites too? What a total sweetie you are. :shutup:

I certainly care more about it than you do as at least I'm prepared to take a run at the vultures descending to tear the flesh from the carcass. You are too blind to even notice they are hovering (and probably won't until you are buried in vulture shit).


Stay where you are.....we don't want you any more than we want kim dot con here you go with the 'we' again - what are you? the schoolyard bully, head of some exclusive silly person clique? Have news for you, Muppet - posture as you will, one word from you and I'll continue to do as I like ...


you will not buy me out of anything, I earn plenty.

Defensive .... I obviously hit a nerve :rolleyes: ooooops.
Careful, your insecurities are showing :(

[mstriumph]

...are destined to disappoint everyone. The very first thing you need in order to help anyone is a strong "productive sector", and the left simply don't provide an environment in which that's possible.
.... next thing, you'll be telling me there's no Tooth Fairy :confused:


Personally, I care rather a lot more about the utter waste of human potential represented by those typically needing support. But rather than automatically blame everyone else for their lack I'd ask why they haven't taken responsibility for their own success in a world where that's never been so easy.

If you think I don't care about waste of potential you are wrong ... but I believe (that disconcerting word again) that a fair few of people on welfare would prefer not to be there (even if only because the pay is lousy and there's no coffee machine or water cooler) and would welcome/benefit from encouragement, mentoring, assistance from those of us lucky enough to be self-sufficient to help them out of the mire.

Welfare is a last resort ... how would YOU feel if you had to accept handouts? I know that, if it were me, I'd be ashamed, humiliated, beaten down by the experience ... it's downright unkind of the rest of us towards those in that predicament by rubbing their noses in it and despising them as leeches.

To answer the point I think you are heading towards (I just know you'll stop me if I'm wrong :msn-wink:), Yes - I'm aware there are 'career' welfare recipients - those who don't equate self-sufficiency with self-respect, those who no amount of encouragement and assistance will help. You can't save everyone - my concern is with those with something to contribute who can be assisted to do just that.

[skippa1]

YOUR country, ooooh, how arrogant :nono:


If, on the other hand, you think your status as (I assume) a CURRENT NZ taxpayer makes the country more yours than mine, it follows that you also consider yourself superior to NZ pensioners? ... as in it doesn't matter how much they paid in tax during their working life there, they aren't contributing to the coffers now so it's no longer THEIR country either? Are THEY parasites too? What a total sweetie you are.
fuckin hypocrite......you don't contribute anything to NZ pensioners or superannuation and plan to retire here. As I said, your opinion is meaningless.
sad bitch

[skippa1]

As simple as your understanding of how the world works.
You were unable to counter the points I made, otherwise you would have, instead of the condescending rhetoric.
They didn't need to borrow to bail out private institution's.......... they wanted to... they did so to protect their friends.
Their free market ideals were for sale.........
Thing is, you didn't make any points other than to let financial investment companies collapse. Mum and dad investors loose their retirement funds, investment company staff loose their jobs and directors skulk off in the night. That helps how exactly?

at least if there is bail out and statutory management, some good may come. Typical left wing idealism that refuses to look at the facts.

[yokel]

The worst thing is when you introduce 12 month warrant of fitness it is business as normal for the first 6 months then almost nothing for the next 6 as only newly introduced and old vehicles to the system will be in need during that 2nd half.

Well if theses WOF businesses were part of the TPPA then they could seek compensation or sue the government.
bit like skycity if the government change the rules

[avgas]

Did more than 75% of people vote this time? I read 2.1M - but have no idea what the voting population is there anymore.


Hmmmm I guess not - that is 100,000 less than last election. So unless the population decreased in the same amount since 2011 it's a a pretty worrying trend.

2011 - 74.2% turnout @ 2.2M / 3M

2013 - 70% turnout @ 2.1M / 3M* (assuming voting population is the same).

Whats the bet there will be $2M voting in 2016?

Will 50% of people not give a fuck / dislike the system by 2024?

We have a problem NZ - when do we want to acknowledge it?

[husaberg]

Thing is, you didn't make any points other than to let financial investment companies collapse. Mum and dad investors loose their retirement funds, investment company staff loose their jobs and directors skulk off in the night. That helps how exactly?

at least if there is bail out and statutory management, some good may come. Typical left wing idealism that refuses to look at the facts.

Facts are
The financial institutions they are not government guaranteed they are not banks neither is the stock market.
If you cannot afford to lose the money invested don’t invest in them.
This is free market right wing idealism boiled down to its most basic.
Yet somehow this idealism is put aside and changed to we must bail out...the mom and pop investers........ yeah right.

The reason people do invest in the stock market and other investment institutions is they offer a higher rate of return ie greed
Why should the more prudent taxpayer fund the greed and stupidity of others.
as for the staff of investment companies losing their jobs well survial of the fittest is also a right wing ideal.
If they were better at their job they would not need bailing out.
Why should the tax payer have to prop them up when the owners of them don’t?
eg Hanover.......... wall street.... i could go on and on but why bother.

[Katman]

Did more than 75% of people vote this time? I read 2.1M - but have no idea what the voting population is there anymore.


I read somewhere that it was about 77% turnout.

[Blackbird]

Facts are
The financial institutions they are not government guaranteed they are not banks neither is the stock market.
If you cannot afford to lose the money invested don’t invest in them.
This is free market right wing idealism boiled down to its most basic.

Absolutely, but I'd like to add a rider and that is with any type of purchase, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Back in the 80's we got burned in the sharemarket crash because I didn't know what I didn't know about investing and got caught up in the hype of the time. When I retired 6 years ago, I'd built up a sizeable company superannuation sum and didn't want to lose that. I booked an appointment with the head of the company which invests the superannuation funds of some of NZ's biggest companies, including the company I worked for. As well as explaining some principles of investment, he went on to say that many financial institutions quietly push a financial product rather than working on behalf of the client by specifically meeting their needs and giving truly independent advice. He then went on to say that there were only a small handful of investment advisors in NZ that he would trust with his money.

We went to one that he recommended and the care he took to meet our specific needs was a complete revelation. 6 years later, he's still actively managing our investment and the after-tax return since we started has been spectacularly above bank returns, but with well-managed risk.

Do I consider myself a greedy capitalist? Not on your life! Simply wanting a good return to support the family by using a competent advisor, which gives me time to do the things I love like riding and travelling. The key as with anything is getting sound advice.

[Oscar]

Did more than 75% of people vote this time? I read 2.1M - but have no idea what the voting population is there anymore.


Hmmmm I guess not - that is 100,000 less than last election. So unless the population decreased in the same amount since 2011 it's a a pretty worrying trend.

2011 - 74.2% turnout @ 2.2M / 3M

2013 - 70% turnout @ 2.1M / 3M* (assuming voting population is the same).

Whats the bet there will be $2M voting in 2016?

Will 50% of people not give a fuck / dislike the system by 2024?

We have a problem NZ - when do we want to acknowledge it?

The only problem here is your maths.

[husaberg]

Absolutely, but I'd like to add a rider and that is with any type of purchase, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Back in the 80's we got burned in the sharemarket crash because I didn't know what I didn't know about investing and got caught up in the hype of the time. When I retired 6 years ago, I'd built up a sizeable company superannuation sum and didn't want to lose that. I booked an appointment with the head of the company which invests the superannuation funds of some of NZ's biggest companies, including the company I worked for. As well as explaining some principles of investment, he went on to say that many financial institutions quietly push a financial product rather than working on behalf of the client by specifically meeting their needs and giving truly independent advice. He then went on to say that there were only a small handful of investment advisors in NZ that he would trust with his money.

We went to one that he recommended and the care he took to meet our specific needs was a complete revelation. 6 years later, he's still actively managing our investment and the after-tax return since we started has been spectacularly above bank returns, but with well-managed risk.

Do I consider myself a greedy capitalist? Not on your life! Simply wanting a good return to support the family by using a competent advisor, which gives me time to do the things I love like riding and travelling. The key as with anything is getting sound advice.

Neither do i consider you a greedy capitalist, but would you expect the goverment and the tax payer to bail you out if it went pear shaped? I expect not.
So why should the National government bail out private investment institutions, they (the right) always said they were not the nanny state.
It is an odd turn of events and a fundamental reversal of free market policy.

[Oscar]

Neither do i consider you a greedy capitalist, but would you expect the goverment and the tax payer to bail you out if it went pear shaped? I expect not.
So why should the National government bail out private investment institutions, they (the right) always said they were not the nanny state.
It is an odd turn of events and a fundamental reversal of free market policy.

You missed the obvious reason.
Being as how all are big banks are Aussie, the Australian Govt. effectively g'teed the NZ banking system during the GFC.
This left the NZ Govt with little choice but to follow on with the same system, otherwise our smaller locally owned institutions could be very vunerable.

Also the use of the term "bail out" is disengenous, as it infers that there was no cost to the Finance Company or Bank.

[Blackbird]

Neither do i consider you a greedy capitalist, but would you expect the goverment and the tax payer to bail you out if it went pear shaped? I expect not.
So why should the National government bail out private investment institutions, they (the right) always said they were not the nanny state.
It is an odd turn of events and a fundamental reversal of free market policy.

Yep, I don't disagree with your overall sentiments at all. I'm not an economist but in the past when substantial institutions like Air NZ and BNZ were in financial strife, I can see that letting them go under may well have caused a hell of a knock-on to NZ which wouldn't be in anyone's best interests. Besides, the govt were substantial stake holders. However, there has to be a point where you don't bail out institutions who are failing. I guess that will depend on the impact on our country and whether it's their own fault or circumstances beyond their control.

[mstriumph]

fuckin hypocrite......you don't contribute anything to NZ pensioners or superannuation and plan to retire here. As I said, your opinion is meaningless.
sad bitch

leaving aside your seeming inability to comprehend basic English and your lamentable regression to misogyny (last resort of a bloke that's run out of logical argument, I find?) ... how TEMPTING it would be, how DELIGHTFUL, to return home when the time comes to retire, draw a pension and chuckle at the thought that it's muppets like you paying for it :msn-wink:

I'll be sure to let you know when it happens so you can share my enjoyment of the situation.:lol:

[mstriumph]

Did more than 75% of people vote this time? I read 2.1M - but have no idea what the voting population is there anymore.


Hmmmm I guess not - that is 100,000 less than last election. So unless the population decreased in the same amount since 2011 it's a a pretty worrying trend.

2011 - 74.2% turnout @ 2.2M / 3M

2013 - 70% turnout @ 2.1M / 3M* (assuming voting population is the same).

Whats the bet there will be $2M voting in 2016?

Will 50% of people not give a fuck / dislike the system by 2024?

We have a problem NZ - when do we want to acknowledge it?

run for office ... that's the most sensible analysis yet?

[Oscar]

run for office ... that's the most sensible analysis yet?

Yes, he'd make a good Politican, most of his figures were wrong.

The voter turnout was roughly 2.4m, or 77.04% (which is slightly better than 2011, at 74.2%).

[sidecar bob]

So what youre saying is this business doesnt actually offer any wanted service but insteed relies on handouts by form of forced inspections, so a leech

You really are quite anxious about something arent you.
The industry is licenced to offer a service in line with Government policy, that policy has now changed & staffing levels have been ajusted accordingly.
Nobody is getting a hand out or a hand up & the line of business would still be extremely viable in the complete absence of any direct wof work.
The business also pays PAYE & GST on the services it performs on behalf of the Government.
You really need to get help for your negativity, I gaurantee you that it is making your life far more of a misery than the people you are attempting to make it stick to.

[skippa1]

leaving aside your seeming inability to comprehend basic English and your lamentable regression to misogyny (last resort of a bloke that's run out of logical argument, I find?) ... how TEMPTING it would be, how DELIGHTFUL, to return home when the time comes to retire, draw a pension and chuckle at the thought that it's muppets like you paying for it :msn-wink:

I'll be sure to let you know when it happens so you can share my enjoyment of the situation.:lol:
What I really like is that you will be thinking of me when you retire. Sensative wee pet aren't you:shifty:

[husaberg]

Yep, I don't disagree with your overall sentiments at all. I'm not an economist but in the past when substantial institutions like Air NZ and BNZ were in financial strife, I can see that letting them go under may well have caused a hell of a knock-on to NZ which wouldn't be in anyone's best interests. Besides, the govt were substantial stake holders. However, there has to be a point where you don't bail out institutions who are failing. I guess that will depend on the impact on our country and whether it's their own fault or circumstances beyond their control.

BNZ is government guaranteed it was actually NZ owned at the time of the bail out as was Air NZ.
They had to bail them out this is where the rub is.
They did not have to bail out Hanover and others such as SCF etc.

[husaberg]

You missed the obvious reason.
Being as how all are big banks are Aussie, the Australian Govt. effectively g'teed the NZ banking system during the GFC.
This left the NZ Govt with little choice but to follow on with the same system, otherwise our smaller locally owned institutions could be very vunerable.

Also the use of the term "bail out" is disengenous, as it infers that there was no cost to the Finance Company or Bank.

I was not talking of banks as they are goverment gauranteed.
There was a taxpayer funded bail out of fincial insitutions that carry no such gaurantee it is not disengenoius at all.

[Oscar]

I was not talking of banks as they are goverment gauranteed.
There was a taxpayer funded bail out of fincial insitutions that carry no such gaurantee it is not disengenoius at all.

So which of these "fincial institutions" do you refer to then?

[Oscar]

They did not have to bail out Hanover and others such as SCF etc.

SCF was bailed out under the Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme, so yes, they did have to bail them out.

[husaberg]

SCF was bailed out under the Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme, so yes, they did have to bail them out.

And Hanover
Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?
As for the spell check nice troll.:killingme

[Oscar]

And Hanover
Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?
As for the spell check nice troll.:killingme

What about Hanover?
The RGS paid out $1.6B to investors, so which bit wasn't covered?

[Oscar]

And Hanover
Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?
As for the spell check nice troll.:killingme

Speaking of trolling, your continued use of the phrase "bailed out" is incorrect.
As I mentioned before, it wasn't a bail out, it was the Govt. assuming the assets of the company after paying out investors.
So whereas the investors were bailed out, the company and its shareholders were not.

[husaberg]

Speaking of trolling, your continued use of the phrase "bailed out" is incorrect.
As I mentioned before, it wasn't a bail out, it was the Govt. assuming the assets of the company after paying out investors.
So whereas the investors were bailed out, the company and its shareholders were not.

Your semantics are beginning to bore me. It was bailed out, I never have once suggested the shareholders were, show me where I have.
Your augments (as per normal) hold no water. It is just rhetoric trolling with bluster. As soon as you are challenged you change the subject and resort to insinuations.

As for Hanover and the SCF how about you use google and have a look for yourself open your eyes and it will be in front of you. (the computer).

[Oscar]

Your semantics are beginning to bore me. It was bailed out, I never have once suggested the shareholders were, show me where I have.
Your augments (as per normal) hold no water. It is just rhetoric trolling with bluster. As soon as you are challenged you change the subject and resort to insinuations.

As for Hanover and the SCF how about you use google and have a look for yourself open your eyes and it will be in front of you. (the computer).

As usual you are full of shit.

You say "Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?"

And once again you are wrong:


The retail deposit guarantee scheme lasted until 12 October 2010 and covered total deposits of approximately $133 billion with 73 financial institutions. By July 2010 just under $80 million had been paid out. Payments in respect of South Canterbury Finance, which went into receivership at the end of August 2010, were by far the most substantial; the crown paid out all 35,000 depositors (but no shareholders) in full at a cost of $1.6 billion, and also paid out other creditors at a cost of $175 million (to simplify the receiver’s task).

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/banking-and-finance/page-4

[husaberg]

As usual you are full of shit.

You say "Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?"

And once again you are wrong:



http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/banking-and-finance/page-4

The original deposit guarantee was introduced in late 2008 at the height of the global financial crisis, when the world's banking systems froze up. The Government brought in the guarantee as an emergency measure to maintain confidence in the New Zealand banking system.

The original scheme covered deposits of $133b in 72 banks and finance groups. The Government ended up on the hook for more than $1.8b, to more than 38,000 depositors in the original scheme.

While SCF was the biggest collapse, the scheme also bailed out depositors in other failed finance companies, including Allied Nationwide, Mascot Finance and Vision Securities.

The original scheme expired in October 2010 and was replaced with a much smaller, extended deposit guarantee, covering seven institutions and $1.9b.

What the original bill said is that is basically at the discretion of the crown the amount of monies that will be paid out.
also look at the dates.

[Oscar]

The original deposit guarantee was introduced in late 2008 at the height of the global financial crisis, when the world's banking systems froze up. The Government brought in the guarantee as an emergency measure to maintain confidence in the New Zealand banking system.

The original scheme covered deposits of $133b in 72 banks and finance groups. The Government ended up on the hook for more than $1.8b, to more than 38,000 depositors in the original scheme.

While SCF was the biggest collapse, the scheme also bailed out depositors in other failed finance companies, including Allied Nationwide, Mascot Finance and Vision Securities.

The original scheme expired in October 2010 and was replaced with a much smaller, extended deposit guarantee, covering seven institutions and $1.9b.

the original bill said that is basically at the discretion of the crown the amount of monies that will be paid out.
also look at the dates

Fuck the dates.
SCF was paid out, you are full of shit.

[Ocean1]

To answer the point I think you are heading towards (I just know you'll stop me if I'm wrong :msn-wink:), Yes - I'm aware there are 'career' welfare recipients - those who don't equate self-sufficiency with self-respect, those who no amount of encouragement and assistance will help. You can't save everyone - my concern is with those with something to contribute who can be assisted to do just that.

There's the crux of the matter right there: their life's outcomes are more than any other factor the result of decisions they made. They made. It matters not a jot what their reasons for those decisions were, the consequences are almost always foreseeable and the consequences don't care why.

I offer advice to any of them that will listen too. I'm good like that. Sometimes more. Occasionally a lot more. But when they continue to make poor decisions, as they usually do, with the same perfectly predictable outcomes then I stop feeling sorry for them and start feeling angry.

[husaberg]

Fuck the dates.
SCF was paid out, you are full of shit.
Yeah that's right who created the bill
You were caught out on your own semantics.
SCF was not paid, out the investors were
Your own right wing ideals are not so idealistic now are they

[Oscar]

Yeah that's right who created the bill
You were caught out on your own semantics.
SCF was not paid, out the investors were
Your own right wing ideals are not so idealistic now are they

Semantics is it now?

Nice try, but you're not getting off that easily.
You said: "Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?"

This is still untrue - and you are still ful of shit.

[husaberg]

Semantics is it now?

Nice try, but you're not getting off that easily.
You said: "Most of the bail out of SCF was not covered by the RGS at all, have a look Didn't you know that?"

This is still untrue - and you are still ful of shit.

Read the act, look at the dates.
They did not have to, they choose to do the bail out.

[Oscar]

Read the act, look at the dates.
They did not have to, they choose to do the bail out.

Bullshit.
The guarantee was made under the Public Finance Act 1989.
If you're referring to the extended scheme, SCF collapsed in August 2010 and the extended scheme was started in October 2010.

[husaberg]

Bullshit.
The guarantee was made under the Public Finance Act 1989.
If you're referring to the extended scheme, SCF collapsed in August 2010 and the extended scheme was started in October 2010.

Read the act......... actually read the act... just again for you......... read the act........ They did not have to bail them out....Basically they could pay what ever they considered prudent........

[Oscar]

Read the act......... actually read the act... just again for you......... read the act........ They did not have to bail them out....Basically they could pay what ever they considered prudent........

Oh yeah, the Govt is gonna make "prudent" payments and watch the financial markets collapse around them.
Stop being a cock.

[husaberg]

Oh yeah, the Govt is gonna make "prudent" payments and watch the financial markets collapse around them.
Stop being a cock.

Therein is the rub. The government in the end does not make the payment, the tax payer does............
Work out how much that is the debt is saddled on the many to pay for the greed of a few is.

If the "free market" collapses the world still turns.......... the sun still rises.
Remember Right wing ideals do not include the "nanny state" Unless it suits them of course. Like it did here.

What we have seen is a massive transfer of wealth.
Exactly the same that has happened in the States.

If it was about being prudent? why would they not help their own SOE's the same way.

[avgas]

I read somewhere that it was about 77% turnout.
Wow really - people must be dying or something?

The only problem here is your maths.
My bad - I didn't count the special folk.
http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2014/partystatus.html

In which case - well done New Zealand. You really are stupid (or secretly love national and don't want to admit to it).
Hmmmm it is a bit concerning that when you add up the total votes it adds up to less than the total votes, let alone the total + special votes.
Whats up. Are there literally 300,000 who bothered to go vote and then drew cocks on their forms?
What gives?


<colgroup><col width="64" span="2" style="width:48pt"> </colgroup><tbody>
National Party
1,010,464


Labour Party
519,146


Green Party
210,764


New Zealand First Party
186,031


Māori Party
27,074


ACT New Zealand
14,510


United Future
4,533


Conservative
86,616


Internet MANA
26,539


Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party
8,539


Ban1080
4,368


Democrats for Social Credit
1,609


The Civilian Party
906


NZ Independent Coalition
895


Focus New Zealand
677



2,102,671 vs
2,112,522
vs

<tbody>
2,367,152????


</tbody>


</tbody>

[TheDemonLord]

Therein is the rub. The government in the end does not make the payment, the tax payer does............
Work out how much that is the debt is saddled on the many to pay for the greed of a few is.

just a quick 2c on this - I neither agree nor disagree with bailouts - in the end I guess it comes down to what is the lesser of 2 evils - paying for a bailout, or paying for the consequences of a failed company - either way we as the tax payer will ultimately be forced to pay for it.

Sometimes it is right to bail out a company - a good example is when the UK govt bailed out Rolls Royce, the company went through a rough patch, got bailed out, got its shit sorted and is now profitable again - which means it is employing people, making products, paying taxes etc.

Sometimes it isn't.

[SPman]

What we have seen is a massive transfer of wealth.
Exactly the same that has happened in the States.

If it was about being prudent why would they not help their own SOE's the same way.
Not just the States.........
....But it hasn’t quite worked out like that: still facing over 1800 class action suits for fraudulently confiscating SME assets while receiving billions in taxpayer bailout, this weekend brought forth data showing that, in fact, R(oyal)B(ank) (of) S(cotland) has irretrievably lost all the £46bn we invested in it…but is putting aside £576m to pay 2013 bonuses for those MoUs who’ve been doing such a fine job in mislaying all that investment. Thus does rewarding failure become revealing farce

I’ve been on RBS’s case for longer than Mayor Boris Johnson has been saying that we must learn to love bankers. Mark my words, this is the beginning of the end…..we are still miles from the final descent into Hester’s hastily covered up cracks at RBS. Those suffering from tertiary frontal-lobe syndrome – while existing in a Cloud many miles above the law and beyond the gravitational pull of any known constabulary – must be laughing til they wet their designer boxers. Is this what Friedman meant by trickle-down wealth.........

[husaberg]

Not just the States.........

Yeah but the Asian one was far more cleverly done, where they paid to prop it until all the overseas investment were able to get out, then they allowed them to totally collapse while the locals were left still being saddled with the debt they incurred for it to be propped up. That is beautiful, but it never happened it is just tin foil hat stuff;)

[mstriumph]

What I really like is that you will be thinking of me when you retire. Sensative wee pet aren't you:shifty:

... always in my thoughts, bro :laugh:

[mstriumph]

..............

Sometimes it is right to bail out a company - a good example is when the UK govt bailed out Rolls Royce, the company went through a rough patch, got bailed out, got its shit sorted and is now profitable again - which means it is employing people, making products, paying taxes etc.

Sometimes it isn't.

but, even though they're still made in England, thought BMW owned Rolls Royce?

[Oscar]

but, even though they're still made in England, thought BMW owned Rolls Royce?

Depends if he's talking cars or jet engines - diff comapnies.

[TheDemonLord]

Depends if he's talking cars or jet engines - diff comapnies.

If memory serves, when the UK government did the bailout, they were the same company, they were split I think when the company was privatized again, and then BMW bought the Car part later (again, going off memory, details might be wrong)

[SPman]

If memory serves, when the UK government did the bailout, they were the same company, they were split I think when the company was privatized again, and then BMW bought the Car part later (again, going off memory, details might be wrong)That sounds right - they thought they were getting Bentley as well, but that was split off as well and Volkswagen snaffled them.