New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337642

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

[TheDemonLord]

Me: So Maybe we should invest in our Infrastructure?
Typical NZer - Naaaah She'll be right mate.....


we need to stop this attitude when it comes to significant infrastructure - fine on the farm or if you are in a tight spot and need to a quick fix, but not for major infrastructure.

[slofox]

Me: So Maybe we should invest in our Infrastructure?
Typical NZer - Naaaah She'll be right mate.....


we need to stop this attitude when it comes to significant infrastructure - fine on the farm or if you are in a tight spot and need to a quick fix, but not for major infrastructure.

Nummereight'll fix it mate...

[Madness]

Be sure not to hurry back then, eh?

[Mike.Gayner]

Could be worse. Could be living in the USA.

[Gremlin]

Me: So Maybe we should invest in our Infrastructure?
Typical NZer - Naaaah She'll be right mate.....

To be fair, I think they did just do a major upgrade during winter... However, fires aren't known for being convenient or gentle...

Just wait, that attitude of wanting a bargain (which means no investment) isn't power industry specific. Just wait for Chorus to hit the same problem in years to come...

[Kickaha]

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

Yeah, that wouldn't ever happen in America :tugger:

[nodrog]

fuck I reckon

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/09/uk-usa-storms-idUKKBN0FE0V720140709

[gonzo_akl]

interesting article discussing the power grid in the north east US 10 years after they lost power to 50Million people
http://science.time.com/2013/08/13/ten-years-after-the-great-blackout-the-grid-is-stronger-but-vulnerable-to-extreme-weather/

[R650R]

Yeah, that wouldn't ever happen in America :tugger:

Yep.

http://www.asce.org/Content.aspx?id=25562

Even if they had a back up cable underground it would still be vulnerable to the fire spreading there anyway.
Good wake up call but we can hardly blame anyone for such extreme events.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/08/23/minnesota.bridge.settlement/t1larg.bridge.collapse.afp.gi.jpg

[FJRider]

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

If it was in West Auckland .. few would have noticed ... or cared.

[SPman]

NZ, USA, it's all the same mentality - cut maintenance back to the minimum to ensure good returns for the CEO and shareholders - if a foreseeable cock-up or disaster happens, put it down to bad luck or the time of month - blame anybody except those in charge who's fucking job it is is to make sure events like this don't happen!
It's always someone else's fault - like the joke that is Auckland's antiquated sewer/stormwater system.....

[Woodman]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337642

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

Chill, its just a power cut. Shit happens.

[Swoop]

If it was in West Auckland .. few would have noticed ... or cared.
Piss off! We would have to stab people in the dark, and that is just NOT on!
Anyway, the lights are always on at the tinny houses due to the stolen generators from the City. Chur Bro!



Just as well it's the "posh" suburbs that are affected. Perhaps the red cross will be out collecting for the underprivileged refugees of Mission Bay and Remuera?
"Some residents have been reduced to foraging for beans to make their coffee, over an open fire. Several have had to drive their Merc over 20 kilometres to find a watering hole serving a cappuccino. For just a $k a day, YOU can make a difference to their lives! Donate today!"

I wonder where the filthy rich are bathing at the moment?

[nzspokes]

If it was in West Auckland .. few would have noticed ... or cared.

Dont be stupid.<_<

We would just have house burning party's.....:msn-wink:

But to be fair, its just a power cut. Big frigging deal.

[Akzle]

it was in Auckland .. few noticed ... or cared.

edited for accuracy.

[Ocean1]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337642

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

Indeed.

Almost as bad as North Mexico...

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/american-blackout/articles/blackouts-a-history/

[Ribit]

Someone wanna explain why people pay for power, central aucklanders get about $330 back each year from the power company and there's power cuts due to lack of money spent on infrastructure?

Deregulating and privatising the system seems to have just fckd things up for the consumer.

[Banditbandit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337642

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.

FUCK OFF THEN (oh sorry - you already did that .. So shut the fuck up!!!)

[imdying]

In other news... Oregon has lost power three times this year... to squirrels :laugh:

[Banditbandit]

In other news... Oregon has lost power three times this year... to squirrels :laugh:

What the fuck do squirrels do with electricity??? Roast nuts perhaps ???

[oldrider]

What the fuck do squirrels do with electricity??? Roast nuts perhaps ???

They are training to become "shock jocky's" ... they hear there is work in New Zealand! :rolleyes:

[neels]

Was always going to happen after Max Bradford and his rich buddies pulled apart the electricity system, and turned it from a service provider into a bunch of different businesses, sadly subscribing to the model espoused by the good old USofA capitalists (enron anyone?)

[Crasherfromwayback]

NZ! I love life here.

[oldrider]

Was always going to happen after Max Bradford and his rich buddies pulled apart the electricity system, and turned it from a service provider into a bunch of different businesses, sadly subscribing to the model espoused by the good old USofA capitalists (enron anyone?)

Not quite true there ... there has been huge investment into maintenance and infrastructure since then!

The plant would never have kept up with the population growth and industrial expansion due to the public utilities being held up and used as a political football.

Max Bradford and Sir Arnold Nordmeyer share political condemnation for very minor contributions to NZ political history compared to those who have followed them!

I refer to Nordmyer's (supposed) black budget.

[Quote from Wiki]

When Labour won the 1957 elections Nordmeyer was made Minister of Finance and was ranked third within the government.[7] A short time after taking office Nordmeyer concluded that the country was on the brink of a balance of payments crisis and decided to take strong measures in response. His first Budget (generally known as "the Black Budget") introduced a number of unpopular changes, including significant tax increases. The particularly large tax increases for alcohol and tobacco, coupled with Nordmeyer's strong religious background, created the impression that he was attempting to impose puritan-like reforms. Labour was voted out of office in the 1960 elections, something that many historians blame on Nordmeyer's "Black Budget".[1]
Leader of the Opposition

Despite attracting considerable blame for Labour's loss of support Nordmeyer was elected to lead the Labour Party when Nash retired in 1963.[1] Future interim Prime Minister, Hugh Watt became Nordmeyer's deputy leader.[8] The memory of the "Black Budget" still haunted Nordmeyer's profile, however, and many within the party believed that it was time for "a new generation" to take control. In 1965 a group of Labour MP's formed a group known as the 'Mafia' who were dedicated to replacing Nordmeyer with Norman Kirk. This was due to some within the Labour caucus thinking Nordmeyer "out of touch" with his Members and vice-versa, some considering him an autocratic loner, despite his considerable debating abilities.[8] Norman Kirk eventually emerged as the favourite candidate to succeed Nordmeyer and in a vote on 9 December 1965, Nordmeyer was defeated by 25 votes to 10.[1]

Just one of the reasons that I detest and mistrust the Labour party as a group that will "Always" shit on their own when it suits them! :mad:

[Banditbandit]

They are training to become "shock jocky's" ... they hear there is work in New Zealand! :rolleyes:

"You must spread ..." Nearly fell off my chair laughing ..

[Shaun Harris]

that city is full of imports anyway, so no real loss

[Flip]

If its critical to your business or home buy a generator. FFS its not that difficult.

I have a basic 10 amp petrol generator. I used it for 3 weeks after the canterbury earthquake and I even threw an extension cord over the fence and kept the neighbours fridge and water tank full.

[FJRider]

In other news... Oregon has lost power three times this year... to squirrels :laugh:

This is Auckland we are talking about ... Obviously the (NZ) Governments fault ... :pinch:

[Akzle]

that city is full of imports anyway, so no real loss

mmmmbecause people not born on this island are a subspecies undeserving of the great electricity supplied in/by the island??

[FJRider]

edited for accuracy.

Accuracy has never (in the past) been your concern in your posts .. why start now ... ?????????? :oi-grr:




In west Jaffa city ... the power has already been cut off in most parts ... :innocent:

[Erelyes]

Mmmmmm.... a case for getting solar panels. That way if a substation goes bang....

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/127/663/tumblr_lgf3pgDzLT1qh4nf6o1_400.gif

[JATZ]

Hey Auckland....

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/smilies/NelsonHaha_zps86df904f.jpg

[FJRider]

NZ! I love life here.

I thought you were in Wellington ... :scratch:

[husaberg]

Transpower are currently being restructured again and have been ordered to go on a major cost cutting drive (in order to look sexier for a partial float.)
But that said Transpower or the other distributers are not what currently drives your power prices its the retailers and generators........
Buried infrastructure whist being less unsightly is hard to maintain cost 100x as much if not more to build.

[Banditbandit]

Transpower are currently being restructured again and have been ordered to go on a major cost cutting drive (in order to look sexier for a partial float.)
But that said Transpower or the other distributers are not what currently drives your power prices its the retailers and generators........


Hmmmm ... the Government demands transpower pay a return on investment .. which affects the price transpower sells electricity to the retailer for ... which affects the prices we pay when it gets to us ..

[jafa21]

It amazes me that people are so naive. I work in another heavy industry where the focus on safety is more than you can imagine. However we still have incidents every now and then where a piece of equipment fails. There are lot of legacy items that have been around for 50+ years. Most of them don't meet current standards if built new now. However the business accepts the risk as the cost of bringing everything to today's code and standard would essentially mean scrap it all and build it new. Which could cost in the millions. We live in a country which has the least problems. Most third world countries have scheduled power cuts daily upto 12 hrs a day for upto 6 months to save power. If you think NZ is a shot hole then I highly recommend you get out of your little fantasy world you live in and go see the world. You don't have to go far today realise we live in one of the best if not best countries. 4-5 Australian cities usually come in top 10 cities in the world to live in, but if you compare those cities to NZ we have far less crime rate, unemployment, homelessness and many other problems. Stop blaming others for everything (especially the government) that happens and stop taking NZ for granted.

[Moi]

I think the description is "business model" and the current government is rather keen on this model "Business knows best! And moving the business forward" and - at this point the cynic-devil in me sits on the shoulder - as most of the areas without power are probably strong holds of government supporters then they must also - drawing long bow here - support the business model and the consequences of such model.

Of course the state-owner model also has it down falls... all those awful hydro dams on the Waikato River were a result of that state-owned model...

[ellipsis]

...i have a spare torch and a blanket or two if anyone really needs them...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I thought you were in Wellington ... :scratch:

Love the wind too funnily enough!

[oldrider]

Love the wind too funnily enough!

"Wellington"! ... A wind strong enough to put a ferry down ... and coffee strong enough to bring it back up! ... Yep, that's our Wellington! :killingme

[Voltaire]

Stranded outside the coffee shop in Sylvia Park with no cell phone coverage or internet for 8 bleedin' hours.
Hundreds of similar latteless zombies were in the same predicament, driving around aimlessly in their Audi 4x4's.
When the news that St Lukes had been spared many made the perilous traffic lightless journey there and were able to update Friendbook.
Had to resort to talking to actual people and doing things like mowing the lawn..... 8 hours I wish never to repeat. Most excellent news that the Govt is going to have an enquiry....they must have got lots of Don't Likes from Remmers..:rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

It amazes me that people are so naive. I work in another heavy industry where the focus on safety is more than you can imagine. However we still have incidents every now and then where a piece of equipment fails. There are lot of legacy items that have been around for 50+ years. Most of them don't meet current standards if built new now. However the business accepts the risk as the cost of bringing everything to today's code and standard would essentially mean scrap it all and build it new. Which could cost in the millions. We live in a country which has the least problems. Most third world countries have scheduled power cuts daily upto 12 hrs a day for upto 6 months to save power. If you think NZ is a shot hole then I highly recommend you get out of your little fantasy world you live in and go see the world. You don't have to go far today realise we live in one of the best if not best countries. 4-5 Australian cities usually come in top 10 cities in the world to live in, but if you compare those cities to NZ we have far less crime rate, unemployment, homelessness and many other problems. Stop blaming others for everything (especially the government) that happens and stop taking NZ for granted.

So, other countries in the world haven't got their shit sorted, so we should just continue to half arse our major infrastructure cause NZ half arsing is still better than most of the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

[Big Dog]

The irony, backwater Tuakau kept the power on. Maybe if Auckland was a backwater power would be on line?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[buggerit]

So, other countries in the world haven't got their shit sorted, so we should just continue to half arse our major infrastructure cause NZ half arsing is still better than most of the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

Maybe we should find out the facts about the cause of the fire before we get our panties in to much of a twist, and
after all, it is only Auckland.

[Ocean1]

So, other countries in the world haven't got their shit sorted, so we should just continue to half arse our major infrastructure cause NZ half arsing is still better than most of the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

Do you really believe it's realistic to expect 100% service delivery?

Do you happen to know what the current downtime represents?

NZ infrastructure could be better, but you're already right at the pointy end of diminishing returns, what budget will you cut to fund upgrades?

[Gremlin]

The irony, backwater Tuakau kept the power on. Maybe if Auckland was a backwater power would be on line?
Well, there wouldn't have been 85,000 without power. More like 850 :lol:

This is what I was talking about re Chorus: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11338350

Hey, let's regulate them, which will reduce their ability to operate, then watch the screams as it falls apart from under-investing... That said, should probably focus on power first, your line ain't downloading nowt without power :rolleyes:

[The Reibz]

This Jason cunt is forever making threads and comments along these lines. Agree with him on this one though, all you need to do is gather a few ragheads and blow that power station up and most of NZ's power is history from what I have heard

[Big Dog]

Same is true of any civilised location.
Rule one of siege: substations, water supply, transport. The rest is time.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

The more dependent the residents are on the infrastructure the shorter the siege.

I imagine chch would last a lot longer than Akl.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[oldrider]

Must admit, every time I read the title on this thread it pisses me off and I feel like posting the OP to fuck off and find somewhere better! :kick:

But then I realise that I am falling into the attention trap that he set! :shutup: ............... :corn:

[TheDemonLord]

Do you really believe it's realistic to expect 100% service delivery?

Do you happen to know what the current downtime represents?

NZ infrastructure could be better, but you're already right at the pointy end of diminishing returns, what budget will you cut to fund upgrades?

100% uptime isn't possible I agree, but does that excuse having a network that has multiple Single Points of Failure AND having a similar issues occur within recent memory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Auckland_power_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Auckland_Blackout

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_outages#2009

Do you see a pattern here? The pattern is half-arsing number 8 wire fixes, with a good dose of She'll be right mate instead of actually doing shit properly.

[Akzle]

Same is true of any civilised location.
Rule one of siege: substations, water supply, transport. The rest is time.


for auckland... water supply. blow the tanks and dams and pipes from the waikato.
blocking transport will happen naturally, since they voluntarily do it for ~6 hours a day anyway. :facepalm:
...

[husaberg]

Hmmmm ... the Government demands transpower pay a return on investment .. which affects the price transpower sells electricity to the retailer for ... which affects the prices we pay when it gets to us ..

Yes but the margins are not that big in distribution and with transmission as they work to a model and any time they go under the model the rebate is returned to the consumer.
The margins on Generation and retailing are what ever they think they can get away with. Because the free market competition model works lol
If the business know best model is applied, and Transpower is partially or fully privatised.....well then all bets are off.

[FJRider]

The irony, backwater Tuakau kept the power on.

A few years back ... the "Backwater" of Fairlie lost power for over a month. Nobody (in the North Island) cared after the second night ... :whocares:


Maybe if Auckland was a backwater power would be on line?

Another few days without power ... and it might have been ... ;)

[FJRider]

Must admit, every time I read the title on this thread it pisses me off and I feel like posting the OP to fuck off and find somewhere better! :kick:



If you look at where the OP declares as being his location ... it seems he has already fucked off ... to the USA ... :2thumbsup

As for being "Somewhere better" ... that's for him to decide ... and us to .. umm .. argue ... ??? :scratch:

[ellipsis]

...the whole infrastructure, which is wiggly little wires and some real big bits, which spin and pump and are all usually bolted to the planet, and shit... need attention now and again,and incidentally are made by some human...for as cheap as possible...and these massively engineered wiggly bits with big bits that are attached to the planet, are gonna break now and again...doesn't matter where you are...we put up with sometimes up to 50 outages a year, in our area...I always point my finger straight at the problem...a wiggly bit of wire or a spinning bit, or shit...dependency is a problem that should be addressed...

[Voltaire]

Only 3 meals away from anarchy ( old Saffa saying):rolleyes:

[husaberg]

This Jason cunt is forever making threads and comments along these lines. Agree with him on this one though, all you need to do is gather a few ragheads and blow that power station up and most of NZ's power is history from what I have heard

You don't even need any explosives to blow them up, One could just throw a coil of wire over the substation fence..............without power most towns and cities then have no water........

[JimO]

NZ! I love life here.
im in Bejing at the moment and anybody saying NZ is polluted or dirty or a backwater needs a punch in the trousers

[Voltaire]

im in Bejing at the moment and anybody saying NZ is polluted or dirty or a backwater needs a punch in the trousers

Does the traffic flow along as nicely as in Saigon?


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/th_MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4 (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4)

[Wingnut]

If its critical to your business or home buy a generator. FFS its not that difficult.

I have a basic 10 amp petrol generator. I used it for 3 weeks after the canterbury earthquake and I even threw an extension cord over the fence and kept the neighbours fridge and water tank full.

Thank you. Now if the fucken dairy farmers would only spare 25k in their multi million dollar dairy developments for one at each dairy shed................

[scumdog]

im in Bejing at the moment and anybody saying NZ is polluted or dirty or a backwater needs a punch in the trousers

I was there 3 weeks ago - Kiwis could learn a lot about smooth traffic flow and no road-rage shit.

But the Chinese could learn a lot about smog control.

[oldrider]

I was there 3 weeks ago - Kiwis could learn a lot about smooth traffic flow and no road-rage shit.

But the Chinese could learn a lot about smog control.

It's not smog ... it is the actual (secret) mechanism for traffic control! :rolleyes: (Ha ha, you thought they had got it wong :Police:)

[Big Dog]

...the whole infrastructure, which is wiggly little wires and some real big bits, which spin and pump and are all usually bolted to the planet, and shit... need attention now and again,and incidentally are made by some human...for as cheap as possible...and these massively engineered wiggly bits with big bits that are attached to the planet, are gonna break now and again...doesn't matter where you are...we put up with sometimes up to 50 outages a year, in our area...I always point my finger straight at the problem...a wiggly bit of wire or a spinning bit, or shit...dependency is a problem that should be addressed...

F I recall correct the one of the biggest failures in aucklands power was a rust u bolt failed. Supposedly scheduled for replacement later in the year.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[SPman]

I was there 3 weeks ago - Kiwis could learn a lot about smooth traffic flow and no road-rage shit.

But the Chinese could learn a lot about smog control.Yeah - we watched a people mover turn across three lanes of the motorway ring road to drive the wrong way down an on ramp in peak hour traffic and, basically, no one gave a fuck - just shrugged their shoulders and drove around him. The old smog is a bit grim, got a photo flying in, and it looks like thick cloud.....took a phot from the hill ranges to the north east, and you couldn't see the actual city........

[JimO]

its pretty bad here at the moment havnt seen blue sky since we got here, the guides keep telling us its fog but we know different.........there aint no party like the communist party

[Ocean1]

its pretty bad here at the moment havnt seen blue sky since we got here, the guides keep telling us its fog but we know different.........there aint no party like the communist party

It's not about to change, China is desperately short on cleanish natural energy sources and they're burning unbelievable quantities of their own low grade brown coal. There's several new coal based generating stations built every month.

Can't recall the numbers but their CO2 emissions from concrete poured in new infrastructure alone is massive.

[Swoop]

It's not about to change, China is desperately short on cleanish natural energy sources and they're burning unbelievable quantities of their own low grade brown coal. There's several new coal based generating stations built every month.

Can't recall the numbers but their CO2 emissions from concrete poured in new infrastructure alone is massive.
I bet the cunts are happy the rest of the world had been conned into the "emissions trading" scam!

[mashman]

It's not about to change, China is desperately short on cleanish natural energy sources and they're burning unbelievable quantities of their own low grade brown coal. There's several new coal based generating stations built every month.

Can't recall the numbers but their CO2 emissions from concrete poured in new infrastructure alone is massive.

Wonder how they got on with these? (http://ec.europa.eu/clima/dossiers/nzec/index_en.htm).

[mstriumph]

yes the politics are regrettable and the infrastructure/services aren't all they could be ....... but it's still so far ahead of the rest of the world in so many ways that some of us only wish we could come back

[scumdog]

I bet the cunts are happy the rest of the world had been conned into the "emissions trading" scam!

Yep, I thought the same myself, the Chineses would be laughing their cocks off!.

"Emmision trading" - the Emperors New Clothes of the 21st century!

[Big Dog]

Surely in Asia it would be either emissions trafficking or counterfeiting?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Ocean1]

yes the politics are regrettable and the infrastructure/services aren't all they could be ....... but it's still so far ahead of the rest of the world in so many ways that some of us only wish we could come back

China?

Ahead in which ways?

[husaberg]

China?

Ahead in which ways?

Well when chine wants to do some infrastructure built they do it.
They don't worry about the minor details...... they just do it.
Whether that is ahead or is harking back to the old ways is debatable but they are decisive and they get shit done.:innocent:
not years or legal wrangles and environmental reports and legal battle that just get the lawyer rich.

[Ocean1]

Well when chine wants to do some infrastructure built they do it.
They don't worry about the minor details...... they just do it.
Whether that is ahead or is harking back to the old ways is debatable but they are decisive and they get shit done.:innocent:
not years or legal wrangles and environmental reports and legal battle that just get the lawyer rich.

That's true.

But along the road between individual and societal rights/responsibilities they are a little too much towards the herd mentality for my liking.

Which, (in their case) doesn't prevent some rather poor budgeting, including but not limited to massive misappropriation of resources by authorities.

[husaberg]

That's true.

But along the road between individual and societal rights/responsibilities they are a little too much towards the herd mentality for my liking.

Which, (in their case) doesn't prevent some rather poor budgeting, including but not limited to massive misappropriation of resources by authorities.

Yeah but if you follow the right wing ideals to its very end what they have is progress.......:rolleyes:
I am not saying china is right but it does get shit done.
Would I want to live there NO.

[mstriumph]

China?

Ahead in which ways?

crossed wires, sorry ... I was talking about New Zealand

[Ocean1]

Yeah but if you follow the right wing ideals to its very end what they have is progress.......:rolleyes:
I am not saying china is right but it does get shit done.
Would I want to live there NO.

The right/left thing ain't necessarily the same road.

China may be a nominally communist state but they're also the world's single largest capitalist entity. The communist bit is where you work for the state, or you starve. The capitalist bit is where the state spends pretty much all of your earnings on shit you may or may not approve of whether you like it or not.

As you say, we do the opposite, we support individuals not contributing to the economy, producing both less public income and higher unproductive costs and we expose every non-welfare spending decision to as many official and unofficial committees as possible, the natural example being our RMA.

In China, I took heart from the satellite dishes attached to the dirt huts I passed in the middle of nowhere, their owners still out in their single paddy field behind the communal oxen. They're fiercely proud of their country, sometimes to the point of a worrying xenophobia, but their govt no longer has exclusive access to their sources of information, and they're already demanding answers to questions they didn't even know to ask 5 years ago.

It's generally true that whatever you tax you get less of, and whatever you subsidise you get more of. I'd be a bit happier if both systems rewarded productive behaviour a bit more and rewarded unproductive behaviour a bit less.

[Ocean1]

crossed wires, sorry ... I was talking about New Zealand

Oh, yeah. Our standard of living is a touch lower than some places but part of the reason for that is we don't actually work very hard.

Outside of that, ripper place to live.

[Maha]

New Zealand. What a back water shit hole? I blame Reefton.

[Stylo]

Leave Reefton alone, first place in NZ to have electricity and will be the last town in NZ to have traffic lights.

And a KFC

[oldrider]

Yeah but if you follow the right wing ideals to its very end what they have is progress.......:rolleyes:

Spot the difference ... we just keep on heading down the same old pathway irrespective of Left/Right ... that is just there to make sure we keep voting the same way!

In motorcycle terms AJS/Matchless? ... still the same brand in the end and that's the way of politics in a so called democracy like ours!

The real difference is that we have lovely quiet country with nice people and beautiful scenery but choked to death with imaginary debt! :facepalm:

[Swoop]

Surely in Asia it would be either emissions trafficking or counterfeiting?
With that simple fact, it explains how their carbon-credits are created and traded!

[scumdog]

The right/left thing ain't necessarily the same road.

China may be a nominally communist state but they're also the world's single largest capitalist entity. The communist bit is where you work for the state, or you starve. The capitalist bit is where the state spends pretty much all of your earnings on shit you may or may not approve of whether you like it or not.

As you say, we do the opposite, we support individuals not contributing to the economy, producing both less public income and higher unproductive costs and we expose every non-welfare spending decision to as many official and unofficial committees as possible, the natural example being our RMA.

In China, I took heart from the satellite dishes attached to the dirt huts I passed in the middle of nowhere, their owners still out in their single paddy field behind the communal oxen. They're fiercely proud of their country, sometimes to the point of a worrying xenophobia, but their govt no longer has exclusive access to their sources of information, and they're already demanding answers to questions they didn't even know to ask 5 years ago.

It's generally true that whatever you tax you get less of, and whatever you subsidise you get more of. I'd be a bit happier if both systems rewarded productive behaviour a bit more and rewarded unproductive behaviour a bit less.

Found all the above to be true when I was there - and living out in the country with the 'peasants' showed me how much you DON'T need to live comfortably.

[avgas]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11337642

It's not the first time NZ's major city has had a severe power cut. What a bloody joke.
Still its better than losing entire states every year.
Only a month away buddy - you ready?

[avgas]

100% uptime isn't possible I agree, but does that excuse having a network that has multiple Single Points of Failure AND having a similar issues occur within recent memory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Auckland_power_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Auckland_Blackout

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_outages#2009

Do you see a pattern here? The pattern is half-arsing number 8 wire fixes, with a good dose of She'll be right mate instead of actually doing shit properly.
It's not that bad actually. Single points of failure are bound to occur when you spend a TINY (yes tiny in comparison to the rest of the world) amount on building it.
But you see NZ spends a tiny amount and still get stuff done. In Auckland - how much power-lines are on poles? How much infrastructure is older than 50 years? How much of it is actually world leading? How much of it is safe?

When you look into these aspects - and you see the tiny budget allocated.....they haven't done too badly. When you compare it to the US its actually not bad. Hell even Europe (yes the whole of it) lost power not so long ago.
Shit happens. We learn the lesson, we fix a problem, we move on.

Hell Sydney shut down 5 times in Dec 2008 when I was working on a (power) project there. That was fucking bad. 4 million people going "What the fuck?".

If Auckland loses half a million houses worth of power - that shit is barely a drop in the ocean when you think about whats being spent.

(not getting into the bullshit about consultants taking money and not fixing problems - but if you wanted NZ to have more efficient power engineering - look there first).

[husaberg]

It's not that bad actually. Single points of failure are bound to occur when you spend a TINY (yes tiny in comparison to the rest of the world) amount on building it.
But you see NZ spends a tiny amount and still get stuff done. In Auckland - how much power-lines are on poles? How much infrastructure is older than 50 years? How much of it is actually world leading? How much of it is safe?

When you look into these aspects - and you see the tiny budget allocated.....they haven't done too badly. When you compare it to the US its actually not bad. Hell even Europe (yes the whole of it) lost power not so long ago.
Shit happens. We learn the lesson, we fix a problem, we move on.

Hell Sydney shut down 5 times in Dec 2008 when I was working on a (power) project there. That was fucking bad. 4 million people going "What the fuck?".

If Auckland loses half a million houses worth of power - that shit is barely a drop in the ocean when you think about whats being spent.

(not getting into the bullshit about consultants taking money and not fixing problems - but if you wanted NZ to have more efficient power engineering - look there first).

Nz gid infrastructure costs more to maintain than almost all others around the world that they try and benchmark with we always explain to them this is because we do not have the clean belts underneath so have a huge amouunts of access track also lots more vegetation to maintain and a temperate maritime climate.
All the people that realised this are slowly going from Transpower.
So Transpower are actually trying to drive them down to match the rest of the world now though. Which will result in the inevitable.
Also the people that maintain the grid networks are paid a lot more overseas for their skills.
The companies that are contacted to Transpowers maintenance are having their budgets slashed all the time.

[unstuck]

We had a powercut that lasted 20 mins once, can't remember what year though, was the 90's anyway. Still not fully recovered from that one. I think that was the last one we had. :2thumbsup

[FJRider]

We had a powercut that lasted 20 mins once, can't remember what year though, was the 90's anyway. Still not fully recovered from that one. I think that was the last one we had. :2thumbsup

A fuse went in my place once ... the 45 seconds it took to reset it was sheer hell ... :facepalm:

[FJRider]

The companies that are contacted to Transpowers maintenance are having their budgets slashed all the time.

I think you mean contracted ... :ops: ... and it's the Tender system at its best. (or worst)

It's the profit margin (for the contracting company) is reduced. Wages/Salary for the people actually on the ground doing the work ... seldom changes much ... :argh:

[avgas]

Nz gid infrastructure costs more to maintain than almost all others around the world that they try and benchmark with we always explain to them this is because we do not have the clean belts underneath so have a huge amouunts of access track also lots more vegetation to maintain and a temperate maritime climate.
All the people that realised this are slowly going from Transpower.
So Transpower are actually trying to drive them down to match the rest of the world now though. Which will result in the inevitable.
Also the people that maintain the grid networks are paid a lot more overseas for their skills.
The companies that are contacted to Transpowers maintenance are having their budgets slashed all the time.
Meh - if you ask me Transpower lost all their talent 10 years ago. You could see the writing on the walls then. They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures.

Then they cut budgets - so that fat cats could stay on good salaries in Wellington........while the backbone shrank.
To make things worse, rather than keeping the brains internal 15 years ago. They decided it was a good idea over the next 5 years to fire everyone and contract the whole thing out.

So brains went to consultancies, brawn went to contractors.
The consultants became a mix of 1% brains, 99% money hungry wankers......who would take 80% of a budget for a project.

So now a substation costs $100M to build - even though there is only $10M of gear installed on site.

The contractors, who have to deliver a substation, think they have $100M to play with, find out they only have $20M, and they need to pay their employees. So that leaves $10M to buy gear.

So the breakers come from China. Which isn't a problem - except they aren't Areva or Siemens.......they are some brand which doesn't have an ISO. But don't worry - because for $80M those consultants will verify that is ok. How? By ringing the supplier as saying "Those breakers are all good right?".

Blind leading the Greedy leading the Poor. I am so happy to get out of that.
But that said and done - I still know there are enough people out there, doing a good job. So you are still getting value - its not as easy as it sounds. As you said - costs more to maintain. So as long as you understand that, you understand that 1 blackout every 5-10 years isn't that bad.

[avgas]

We had a powercut that lasted 20 mins once, can't remember what year though, was the 90's anyway. Still not fully recovered from that one. I think that was the last one we had. :2thumbsup
How did you relight the fire?

[husaberg]

I think you mean contracted ... :oops: ... and it's the Tender system at its best. (or worst)

It's the profit margin (for the contracting company) is reduced. Wages/Salary for the people actually on the ground doing the work ... seldom changes much ... :argh:

yip grammar Nazi yip.

[unstuck]

How did you relight the fire?

No need, I have slaves to do the menial stuff. :devil2:

[Jantar]

Meh - if you ask me Transpower lost all their talent 10 years ago. You could see the writing on the walls then. They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures.... .

Close, but it started happening a bit before then. In 1992 Transpower lost 1/3 of its North Island System Controllers in a single year, and only one of the experienced guys is still employed in that position. (I was one who left at that point). Within the next 3 years they lost a similar number of South Island System Controllers, and over 2/3 of their substation operators. Next was the maintenance section put out to contract.

Now Transpower is in the position of having almost no personell with industry experience, and must rely on consultants and contractors.


They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures....
That philosophy changed in 1987. From then they changed to distributed controls and better use of computers. Electrical plant is designed to have a 30 year life, and it is only as older plant is due for replacement that it is changed to more modern designs. Some times for the better, but not always.

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

[FJRider]

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

Is that Jantar speak for ... System failures are always the owners (at the time) fault .. ??? :scratch:

[husaberg]

Close, but it started happening a bit before then. In 1992 Transpower lost 1/3 of its North Island System Controllers in a single year, and only one of the experienced guys is still employed in that position. (I was one who left at that point). Within the next 3 years they lost a similar number of South Island System Controllers, and over 2/3 of their substation operators. Next was the maintenance section put out to contract.

Now Transpower is in the position of having almost no personell with industry experience, and must rely on consultants and contractors.


That philosophy changed in 1987. From then they changed to distributed controls and better use of computers. Electrical plant is designed to have a 30 year life, and it is only as older plant is due for replacement that it is changed to more modern designs. Some times for the better, but not always.

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

While system's control are important
The system relies on the actual network being maintained to a proper standard by competent people rather than being run into the ground in order to have a transmission network to actually control.
This network is in danger of being let down by some cheap components that for some reason the master above will not let the peasants replace. Or repeatedly delay replacement of.
It is so ironic that when these bits fail (as predicted) The master then of course blame the serfs.
Even more ironic is that when the serfs repond and point out they repeatedly told this same master and even repeatedly documented their concerns directly to the same masters.
The master then turns around and say's well you should have been more insistent then.........
People are measuring every thing on graphs and tables and spreadsheets but with no comprehension that some stuff that actually do fail that are not even part of their assessments in the first place.

[Jantar]

Is that Jantar speak for ... System failures are always the owners (at the time) fault .. ??? :scratch:

Not at all. transpower have never owned the cables that were affected. At ALL transpower substations Transpower owns the HT equipment, the transformers, and the LT equipment ar far as the first isolator after the transformer. The network company, in this case Vector, own everything from there on. That includes the droppers or cables to the feeders, and the lines, or cables from the feeders onwards. the failure at Penrose was in the cables after the feeders, so nothing to do with Transpower.


While system's control are important
The system relies on the actual transmission network being maintained to a proper standard by competent people rather than being run into the ground in order to have a transmission network to actually control.
This network is in danger of being let down by some cheap components that for some reason the master above will not let the peasants replace. Or repeatedly delay replacement of.....
Too true. And Transpower's grid was certainly run down from 1990 and for around 15 years afterwards. we are now seeing how detrimental that policy was. It is so bad that it is difficult to even take circuits out for maintenance without constraining other parts of the grid. Right now I am juggling hydroplogy to try and have water in the right place to manage generation for a circuit outage that starts on tuesday.

However, all that is a seperate issue to what happened at Penrose.

[husaberg]

Not at all. transpower have never owned the cables that were affected. At ALL transpower substations Transpower owns the HT equipment, the transformers, and the LT equipment ar far as the first isolator after the transformer. The network company, in this case Vector, own everything from there on. That includes the droppers or cables to the feeders, and the lines, or cables from the feeders onwards. the failure at Penrose was in the cables after the feeders, so nothing to do with Transpower.


Too true. Ander Transpower's grid was certainly run down from 1990 and for around 15 years afterwards. we are now seeing how detrimental that policy was. It is so bad that it is difficult to even take circuits out for maintenance with constraining other parts of the grid. Right now I am juggling hydroplogy to try and have water in the right place to manage generation for a circuit outage that starts on tuesday.

However, all that is a seperate issue to what happened at Penrose.

Correct but they are all symptoms of the same disease.......

[avgas]

Correct but they are all symptoms of the same disease.......
but ECNZ was supposed to be wonderful and amazing and take the DOL Electrical Board tickets to the next level :laugh:

But that is enough of the negative shit - back to my previous statement. I live in a town where investment bankers live. They drive Italians and live in large multi-million dollar houses. Yet the power line outside is up a 40 year old, wood pole. The lines are surrounded by trees. The pole mounted circuit breakers are new - but look to be a 50 year old design. If they auto-re-close it must be in some crazy Russian mechanical fashion cos I can't see it.
Add to that, and it snows here......winter is going to be fun.

Talked to the local linesman mentioned the lines look due for replacement. He said he put a req form in 10 years ago, got told no budget. He said he has to be careful doing pole core tests now because the poles are starting to look like swiss cheese.
Wife wants to buy a house. I told her to keep a spare $20K aside for some solar panels and a generator.

NZ doesn't have it too bad. Sure its not perfect.......but its not the end of the world.

What ever happened to Vectors turbine project that was suppose to temporarily save Auckland should the main trunk go down. Please don't tell me it was build on the wrong side of that substation.
Ironically I tried to sell both Vector and Transpower some spark detectors many moons ago. Delta got some from recall. But the rest had not budget.

[avgas]

No need, I have slaves to do the menial stuff. :devil2:
Polygamy is paying off eh?

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11346810
Even the head honcho of Vector admits the power infrastructure is crap.

[buggerit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11346810
Even the head honcho of Vector admits the power infrastructure is crap.

Yeah, dont come back man, they have only had power 99.8 percent of the time in the last 15 years, fuck I hate fishing, riding my bike,
but what else can you do when the powers off?

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11815871

I'll bet Nigeria has better and cleaner water...

[Akzle]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11815871

I'll bet Nigeria has better and cleaner water...

aucklanders are fucken gay cunts. no-one gives a fuck, certainly no-one in new zealand.

vote akzle and they'll have all the water they could never want...:devil2:

[Virago]

aucklanders are fucken gay cunts. no-one gives a fuck, certainly no-one in new zealand.

vote akzle and they'll have all the water they could never want...:devil2:

Then you could ask nicely if you could borrow a boat from them...

[pritch]

Then you could ask nicely if you could borrow a boat from them...

Now, that's seriously silly... Whatever made you think that? I'm sure Akzle was offered the loan of a luxury yacht. Akzle? :whistle:

[Zedder]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11815871

I'll bet Nigeria has better and cleaner water...


I doubt that with the oil pollution they have.

[Virago]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11815871

I'll bet Nigeria has better and cleaner water...

When the infrastructure is flooded, clean water becomes a problem. It's not rocket science. Hell, it even happens in Oregon...

https://public.health.oregon.gov/Preparedness/CurrentHazards/Pages/FoodWaterSafety.aspx

[eldog]

aucklanders are fucken gay cunts

Lesbians??:2thumbsup

[eldog]

I wonder with all these new houses being built in Akl, how the power situation has changed since the last discussion here in 2014

[Voltaire]

aucklanders are fucken gay cunts. no-one gives a fuck, certainly no-one in new zealand.

vote akzle and they'll have all the water they could never want...:devil2:

Just quietly ...your a silly Cumberland with aioli with a touch of Dijon washed down with a nice Otago Pinot Gris and a creme brulee.

[Virago]

Lesbians??:2thumbsup

No, Lebanese.

[Virago]

Just quietly ...your a silly Cumberland with aioli with a touch of Dijon washed down with a nice Otago Pinot Gris and a creme brulee.

It's crème brûlée.

Peasant.

[eldog]

No, Lebanese.
Lebanese lesbians?:headbang: Riding motorbikes?

[Voltaire]

It's crème brûlée.

Peasant.

Whaateeva..... :rolleyes:' I don't like it' ( in brummie accent)

[Voltaire]

Lebanese lesbians?:headbang: Riding motorbikes?

from Lesbos?

http://www.greece-travel-secrets.com/images/Lesbos_Locator_Map.jpg

[russd7]

I wonder with all these new houses being built in Akl, how the power situation has changed since the last discussion here in 2014

would be nice if they paid their own power bills instead of us having to subsidise the bludgers, i say cut the cook straight cable and see what happens

[ellipsis]

i say cut the cook straight cable and see what happens

...lots of sparks and molten copper I would say...who would volunteer for the holding of the the hacksaw...

[Voltaire]

would be nice if they paid their own power bills instead of us having to subsidise the bludgers, i say cut the cook straight cable and see what happens

With the way the weather is we could set up a hydro power station in New Lynn or the Hunua's.:laugh:

I mustn't understand how subsidies work, but find it hard to believe the SI supports the NI....just sayin'

[husaberg]

With the way the weather is we could set up a hydro power station in New Lynn or the Hunua's.:laugh:

I mustn't understand how subsidies work, but find it hard to believe the SI supports the NI....just sayin'

Most of our water comes from snow stuck on rather large hills.......
Plus we still have had to pay for the HVDC upgrade,(ie north Island power umbilical ) as part of the Transpower line charges yet we don't use it at all.
We also pay on average more for our power.
There are plenty of suitable valleys in Northland for a hydro scheme.

[russd7]

With the way the weather is we could set up a hydro power station in New Lynn or the Hunua's.:laugh:

I mustn't understand how subsidies work, but find it hard to believe the SI supports the NI....just sayin'

look in to power network pricing, the south island and wellington pay way more for the network than what is used down here. article the other day and can't remember exact stats but in last four years we have had a 300 percent increase in supply charges yet auckland has only had a 40 percent increase'

ad to that the 6 cents per litre put on our fuel costs a few years ago to put in to auckland roading network, certainly looks a lot like subsidies to me.

there are moves afoot to remedy the power one but the government hasn't got the balls to do it properly because our power costs will drop dramatically while auckland power will increase dramatically, go figure.

without firing up the mothballed solid fuel power stations then the north island won't even come close to becoming self sufficient in electricity generation.

can you tell me what exactly auckland subsidise for the rest of the country

[husaberg]

look in to power network pricing, the south island and wellington pay way more for the network than what is used down here. article the other day and can't remember exact stats but in last four years we have had a 300 percent increase in supply charges yet auckland has only had a 40 percent increase'

ad to that the 6 cents per litre put on our fuel costs a few years ago to put in to auckland roading network, certainly looks a lot like subsidies to me.

there are moves afoot to remedy the power one but the government hasn't got the balls to do it properly because our power costs will drop dramatically while auckland power will increase dramatically, go figure.

without firing up the mothballed solid fuel power stations then the north island won't even come close to becoming self sufficient in electricity generation.

can you tell me what exactly auckland subsidise for the rest of the country

Even if they fired up all the Huntly power station where would they get the coal from.

[Zedder]

can you tell me what exactly auckland subsidise for the rest of the country


For 2015, Auckland contributed 36.6% to New Zealand's Gross Domestic product while Canterbury contributed 13.6%: http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/NationalAccounts/RegionalGDP_HOTPYeMar15.aspx

[mossy1200]

Even if they fired up all the Huntly power station where would they get the coal from.

Didnt we sell all our coal and it currently being stored in the ocean offshore by asians.

[Voltaire]

look in to power network pricing, the south island and wellington pay way more for the network than what is used down here. article the other day and can't remember exact stats but in last four years we have had a 300 percent increase in supply charges yet auckland has only had a 40 percent increase'

ad to that the 6 cents per litre put on our fuel costs a few years ago to put in to auckland roading network, certainly looks a lot like subsidies to me.

there are moves afoot to remedy the power one but the government hasn't got the balls to do it properly because our power costs will drop dramatically while auckland power will increase dramatically, go figure.

without firing up the mothballed solid fuel power stations then the north island won't even come close to becoming self sufficient in electricity generation.

can you tell me what exactly auckland subsidise for the rest of the country

I don't know, but with over a 1/3 of the population I'm guessing the tax is spread around the country, we buy lots of SI products, and take holidays there. LED lighting should reduce the load on the network.
Your welcome to take all the immigrants that turn up here doing U turns in front of me and yaking on their phones as they drive their fecking Audis around.

[Zedder]

I don't know, but with over a 1/3 of the population I'm guessing the tax is spread around the country, we buy lots of SI products, and take holidays there. LED lighting should reduce the load on the network.
Your welcome to take all the immigrants that turn up here doing U turns in front of me and yaking on their phones as they drive their fecking Audis around.


Strangely enough, 2013 figures showed Auckland got 31-32% of overall Government dollars while the South Island got 24%: http://transportblog.co.nz/2015/10/14/is-auckland-costing-new-zealand-too-much/

[Swoop]

I wonder with all these new houses being built in Akl, how the power situation has changed since the last discussion here in 2014

Probably the same as the water situation (fresh water coming in and waste water out). The spastic cunts in D'auckland council still want to squeeze as many houses into every place possible yet keep the same drains as before.


THEN, we get Phuck up Goff who has joined the "I want a monument to MYSELF!" group of spastics.
We do NOT want a fucking stadium on the waterfront you cunt. Attempting to justify shutting down Eden Park because YOUR fucking council retards limit it to 20-odd night events per year?????????
Someone kick this cuntmonkey in the twat NOW.

[husaberg]

Didnt we sell all our coal and it currently being stored in the ocean offshore by asians.

There was talk of it being buiried in Japan, but coal doesn't do well in the open anyway (it breaks up in the sun and open air)
So covering it wth dirt or under water is not that unusual.
Huntley power station was importing coal from Indonesia even though it had a coal mine next door.
I think there is still a couple of coal mines in the Waikato area, open cast.
Although they as they were SE might have been sold off now.NZDG used to have their own at one stage.
Down here All the SE ones here have now been sold off or they are being sealed. (Pike, Spring creek)
Still a few smaller private open cast opperating though.

Also in regards to subisidising aucklanders a percentage of road user charges and tax on fuel used to be given to the local councils where the fuel or RUC was derived from.
Now nearly all of it goes to roads of national significance fund ie fixing Auckland. As a result all of our roads here are getting well fucked. while all the money is going up north becuase aucklanders can't be bothered to catch a bus.

[Zedder]

Also in regards to subisidising aucklanders a percentage of road user charges and tax on fuel used to be given to the local councils where the fuel or RUC was derived from.
Now nearly all of it goes to roads of national significance fund ie fixing Auckland. As a result all of our roads here are getting well fucked. while all the money is going up north becuase aucklanders can't be bothered to catch a bus.


Auckland received a 48.5% share of NZTA spending on roads from 2005-2014. Also, from 2010 to 2015, bus passenger boardings rose by 8.64 million.

[Daffyd]

...lots of sparks and molten copper I would say...who would volunteer for the holding of the the hacksaw...

I would very much doubt that it would be copper. More likely steel sheathed aluminium.

[husaberg]

Auckland received a 48.5% share of NZTA spending on roads from 2005-2014. Also, from 2010 to 2015, bus passenger boardings rose by 8.64 million.
Yet Auckland does not have either 48% of the population or 48% of the roads. Akward situation considering its meant to be a user pays world.
Auckland recieves about 20% funding that should be of rights going elsewhere based on population.

Rail
In November 2009, government confirmed that it would fund the second $500 million half of the electrification project from Crown funds

Auckland still ranks quite low in its use of public transport, having only 46 public transport trips per capita per year, while Wellington has almost twice this number at 91, and Sydney has 114 trips. This strong roading focus results in substantial traffic congestion during peak times.

[husaberg]

I would very much doubt that it would be copper. More likely steel sheathed aluminium.

The three submarine cables conecting are indeed copper cored
along with lead sheath and a steel layer for protection and rubber (the other layer is paper based)
http://powerlab.fsb.hr/enerpedia/images/f/f7/Stankovic5.jpg

The overhead conductors are steel and alumnium though.

[Zedder]

Yet Auckland does not have either 48% of the population or 48% of the roads. Akward situation considering its meant to be a user pays world.
Auckland recieves about 20% funding that should be of rights going elsewhere based on population.


Quite right, it doesn't have 48% of the population, it had 55% from 2006-2013 with 61.5% projected growth 'til 2043. However, Auckland still gets less spent on it than its share of the population as I wrote earlier.

Anyway, it's time to ride...

[eldog]

The last set of posts are really all tied together. Relative to the old electricity Corp and solid energy and the way various politicians/accountants have played around it. As well as some events like Pike River and the world banking economy.

Think about it.

[husaberg]

Quite right, it doesn't have 48% of the population, it had 55% from 2006-2013 with 61.5% projected growth 'til 2043. However, Auckland still gets less spent on it than its share of the population as I wrote earlier.

Anyway, it's time to ride...

Auckland has a population of 1,495,000, which constitutes 32 percent of New Zealand's population.
As for projected growth Auckland infastructure problems relating to growth should be paid for by Aucklanders.
You are supposed to be the city of sails take a bloody ferry to work.

[Voltaire]

Auckland has a population of 1,495,000, which constitutes 32 percent of New Zealand's population.
As for projected growth Auckland infastructure problems relating to growth should be paid for by Aucklanders.
You are supposed to be the city of sails take a bloody ferry to work.

City of Sails was an old Council slogan that probably cost a mill to come up with.

The rest of the country is quite welcome to take all the immigrants but alas they seem to like being packed in like at home.
Still as an investment the old bungalow has performed well :eek5:

[Zedder]

Auckland has a population of 1,495,000, which constitutes 32 percent of New Zealand's population.
As for projected growth Auckland infastructure problems relating to growth should be paid for by Aucklanders.
You are supposed to be the city of sails take a bloody ferry to work.


Vote husaberg.

[husaberg]

City of Sails was an old Council slogan that probably cost a mill to come up with.

The rest of the country is quite welcome to take all the immigrants but alas they seem to like being packed in like at home.
Still as an investment the old bungalow has performed well :eek5:
Thats the problem most of the economic growth in Auckland is being fuelled by the housing bubble. Its not real nor can it last, its a pyramid scheme that is going to eventually topple.
Maybe its time Auckland had a look at its future fundamentally it has little to offer as a tourist destination it has little natuaral resourcees of commercial value.
Its great (south auckland was the best dairy land in the world)farming land has been eaten up in the urban sprawl.
I can’t see large manufacturers beating down the doors to relocate there either.
Don't it always seem to go. That you don't know what you've got til its gone. They paved paradise And put up a parking lot.


Vote husaberg.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtJPs8IDgU

[Daffyd]

The three submarine cables conecting are indeed copper cored
along with lead sheath and a steel layer for protection and rubber (the other layer is paper based)
http://powerlab.fsb.hr/enerpedia/images/f/f7/Stankovic5.jpg

The overhead conductors are steel and alumnium though.

I stand corrected. :facepalm:

aluminium, or aluminum for those that use the bullshit from the 'Land of the Free.'

[husaberg]

I stand corrected. :facepalm:

Fix my spelling while you are at it:msn-wink:

[jasonu]

Some cunt miles away with a tractor can potentially paralyze New Zealands biggest airport.
What a fucking joke!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11924331

[ellipsis]

...I could excuse some poor bastard from a third world country thinking we were even a thirder world cuntry than them...fucking joke really...

[Voltaire]

Some cunt miles away with a tractor can potentially paralyze New Zealands biggest airport.
What a fucking joke!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11924331

One Ignorant fool can potentially start the next World War, not quite as funny...

[Akzle]

Some cunt miles away with a tractor can potentially paralyze New Zealands biggest airport.
What a fucking joke!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11924331

dude. it's only auckland. it's not like any actual people are going to be affected.

[oldrider]

I would still rather be here than anywhere else in this fucked up world we live in! :niceone:

[trufflebutter]

Not entirely sure the whole of NZ should be linked to the 'Back water Shit Hole' status because of the actions of one person.

[ellipsis]

Not entirely sure the whole of NZ should be linked to the 'Back water Shit Hole' status because of the actions of one person.


...yeah that's right, we are the cleanest, greenest, most spiffingest place on the whole planet...our social structure and way of life is second to none...ummm where's that fucking sarcasm font when you need it...but seriously folks, I wouldn't want to be many other places than in this backwater, shit-hole...

[JimO]

if you want a shit hole go to china.......this is a city we floated past whilst cruising up the Yangtzee, and no its not rain or fog its air pollution




332655

[sidecar bob]

Some cunt miles away with a tractor can potentially paralyze New Zealands biggest airport.
What a fucking joke!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11924331

What should we do differently?
You can bet Jacinda barely knew it was there & clearly doesn't have any policies that address upgrading it, so fairly smug of her to attempt to gain political mileage out of it.
Anyone that changes their vote based on this incident is an idiot, and I'm sure plenty will.

[Ocean1]

if you want a shit hole go to china.......this is a city we floated past whilst cruising up the Yangtzee, and no its not rain or fog its air pollution

The quantity of coal on barges on the Yangtze is just amazing. And it's all shit, they don't have any decent stuff.


What should we do differently?
You can bet Jacinda barely knew it was there & clearly doesn't have any policies that address upgrading it, so fairly smug of her to attempt to gain political mileage out of it.
Anyone that changes their vote based on this incident is an idiot, and I'm sure plenty will.

I don't have it any more but I've seen a report on the cost/risk for a second line. Basically it wasn't worth doing until about now, when the risk of failure for the existing line sneaks up due to age and the consumption goes up to nudge the returns on a new one up a bit.

The press is never going to report it as anything but the government's fault, but in fact a new line is about due.

Speaking of fuel infrastructure budgets, they'd be better worrying about the official national fuel storage policy, which has to count stuff actually in transit to meet target.

[caspernz]

I don't have it any more but I've seen a report on the cost/risk for a second line. Basically it wasn't worth doing until about now, when the risk of failure for the existing line sneaks up due to age and the consumption goes up to nudge the returns on a new one up a bit.

The press is never going to report it as anything but the government's fault, but in fact a new line is about due.

Speaking of fuel infrastructure budgets, they'd be better worrying about the official national fuel storage policy, which has to count stuff actually in transit to meet target.

Ah yes, the last line has the meat in it. If folks knew how tight the system runs, there'd be stock piling going on.

I recall some chat in the late 90's about a new seaboard terminal being built in the vicinity of Port Waikato, seeing as the Marsden pipeline is technically past its design life (if what I was told is right).

Mighty amusing to read the keyboard warriors on Stuff commenting about the MPT-Wiri pipeline, the stats associated with the MPT-Wiri line are staggering. The line from Wiri to AIA is obviously the biggest customer ex Wiri terminal. Hearing how RNZAF was making their storage available for civilian use makes me laugh, barely a million litres of useable product at Whenuapai last I was hauling into there. So that's 5 jumbo jets brimmed, what are we gonna do after 3 days...

There's one good element in this "fuel crisis" in that it shines a spotlight on the vulnerability of the MPT-Wiri line, thus making it more likely we'll get a backup plan put on the list. Bit funny how any politician would be naive enough to attempt making mileage out of this temporary dilemma...:brick:

[Swoop]

Hearing how RNZAF was making their storage available for civilian use makes me laugh, barely a million litres of usuable product at Whenuapai last I was hauling into there. So that's 5 jumbo jets brimmed, what are we gonna do after 3 days...

I laughed when they said the HMNZS Endeavour was going to be filled up at Marsden and sail south.
A floating rust-bucket which is well overdue for replacement would solve the problem of a rusty pipe which is overdue for replacement!

[caspernz]

I laughed when they said the HMNZS Endeavour was going to be filled up at Marsden and sail south.
A floating rust-bucket which is well overdue for replacement would solve the problem of a rusty pipe which is overdue for replacement!

Just a tad ironic me thinks...

The oil industry chap on the AM Show made comment about the JetA1 bridger loading facility at MPT being wet tested today. Always found it amusing we never had a JetA1 gantry at MPT, yes I know the size of our market dictates it.

In reality, as long as Joe Public doesn't go out panic buying at the pumps, all should be fine.

[neels]

In reality, as long as Joe Public doesn't go out panic buying at the pumps, all should be fine.
Unfortunately humans are remarkably stupid and self serving, hence at any mention of a possible shortage they will stockpile many times what they actually need, and therefore create a shortage that otherwise probably wouldn't have existed.

Anyway, better fill the car up on the way home, and the wife's as well I guess......

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11925845

Fuck me is this really the 'pipeline' that carries fuel to New Zealands biggest airport?????
I have better irrigation pipes buried in my back yard.

[Ocean1]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11925845

Fuck me is this really the 'pipeline' that carries fuel to New Zealands biggest airport?????
I have better irrigation pipes buried in my back yard.

That's the one.

You can see where they've patched it up with some green tape they had lying around.

[jasonu]

That's the one.

You can see where they've patched it up with some green tape they had lying around.

Surprising they didn't use a piece of #8 fencing wire too...

[Ocean1]

Surprising they didn't use a piece of #8 fencing wire too...

Dude, #8 wire is so 1960, it's #10, if you please.

[eldog]

So far not a mention about where did the fuel go?
Was there was a similar leak somewhere else, in the past?

How many times going past the domestic terminal storage tanks out by the car parks, the smell of fuel in the air seems extreme. :crazy:

[Ocean1]

So far not a mention about where did the fuel go?
Was there was a similar leak somewhere else, in the past?

How many times going past the domestic terminal storage tanks out by the car parks, the smell of fuel in the air seems extreme. :crazy:

They did say how much they lost at one stage, but I can't remember. Wouldn't have been more than a few tons, as soon as the pressure drops the pump shuts down.

Those tanks are fitted with pvr valves, they let air in when the tanks cool so they don't collapse and let gas out when they warm up so they don't over-pressure. What you're probably smelling is that gas. Any leaks at a terminal are contained by a bund wall.

Edit: Was a tank in Wellington a few years ago where the pvr valve rusted solid. There was a delivery to the tank, but of course the incoming liquid was displacing gas which had nowhere to go, so the pressure in the tank eventually got quite high. The conical top of the tank split the welds and took a wee flight off over Seaview. Luckily it was the middle of the night, and nobody was around. Since then tanks have several valves.

[husaberg]

They did say how much they lost at one stage, but I can't remember. Wouldn't have been more than a few tons, as soon as the pressure drops the pump shuts down.

Those tanks are fitted with pvr valves, they let air in when the tanks cool so they don't collapse and let gas out when they warm up so they don't over-pressure. What you're probably smelling is that gas. Any leaks at a terminal are contained by a bund wall.

Edit: Was a tank in Wellington a few years ago where the pvr valve rusted solid. There was a delivery to the tank, but of course the incoming liquid was displacing gas which had nowhere to go, so the pressure in the tank eventually got quite high. The conical top of the tank split the welds and took a wee flight off over Seaview. Luckily it was the middle of the night, and nobody was around. Since then tanks have several valves.
Yeah Right....A few tons nice one.............;)


Between 60,000 and 80,000 litres was spilled and had run into a culvert where it had been dammed and recovered. Contaminated soil had been taken to refinery for treatment.
The environmental damage would be "absolutely nil by the time we are done", Mr Post said.

[Ocean1]

Yeah Right....A few tons nice one.............;)

Pretty much, yeah. Compared to what goes down that line every day it's sweet fuck all.

Which is admittedly a tad more than the "absolutely nill" left after the clean up.

[awayatc]

Between 60 and 80 cubes as reported is a lot more then nothing.

Plus real numbers very likely to be much larger....
Everything gets always seriously under reported.

In the offshore if we were to spill a single cup , we would be in unimaginable deep shit.

With 9000 cubes going through that line daily, it is un believable that nobody installed a wee bit of the readily available gadgetry.
You know....so you can see, while pumping that you get the same amount at the other end....

Amateurs

[Ocean1]

Between 60 and 80 cubes as reported is a lot more then nothing.

Plus real numbers very likely to be much larger....
Everything gets always seriously under reported.

In the offshore if we were to spill a single cup , we would be in unimaginable deep shit.

With 9000 cubes going through that line daily, it is un believable that nobody installed a wee bit of the readily available gadgetry.
You know....so you can see, while pumping that you get the same amount at the other end....

Amateurs

Nobody suggested there was nothing spilled, the absolutely nil was what was what they claimed was left after the cleanup.

And there's been pressure monitoring gadgetry installed, along with the custody transfer meters at Wiri since the line was built.

If you wanted to compare what's going in at MP with what's coming out at Wiri accurately enough to significantly reduce potential losses then you'd need to compensate for temperature at every point down the line. I'm not sure how many temperature transducers you'd need, but it'd be lots. Having experience with just such systems I can promise you there'd also be a lot of false positives every time the comm's fail.

[husaberg]

Pretty much, yeah. Compared to what goes down that line every day it's sweet fuck all.

Which is admittedly a tad more than the "absolutely nill" left after the clean up.


The 60 -80 tons thats just just what didn't soak into the surrounding ground.
the "virtually nil" after clean up is spin from the pipline company.

Note the Rena NZ'S worst fuel spill was 350 tonnes of heavy fuel oil.

[Ocean1]

The 60 -80 tons thats just just what didn't soak into the surrounding ground.
the "virtually nil" after clean up is spin from the pipline company.

Note the Rena NZ'S worst fuel spill was 350 tonnes of heavy fuel oil.

Oh right.

So what's the actual number then?

[husaberg]

Oh right.

So what's the actual number then?

A shit load more than only A few tons.

They did say how much they lost at one stage, but I can't remember. Wouldn't have been more than a few tons, as soon as the pressure drops the pump shuts down.
.

[Ocean1]

A shit load more than only A few tons.

:laugh: Your opinion is noted, dude.

For what it's worth.

[husaberg]

:laugh: Your opinion is noted, dude.

For what it's worth.
Its apparent my opinion is Worth a shit load more than your opinion,given you estimated that it wouldn't amount to "more than a fewtons" when even the pipeline company acknowledges it was at least 60-80tons. Not including what was soaked into the ground


But feel free to ignore that inconvenient fact.

[Ocean1]

Its apparent my opinion is Worth a shit load more than your opinion,given you estimated that it wouldn't amount to "more than a fewtons" when even the pipeline company acknowledges it was at least 60-80tons. Not including what was soaked into the ground


But feel free to ignore that inconvenient fact.

What's apparent is that you have no fucking idea how much of that spill remains in the environment, and in spite of that you'd rather depend on what you want to be true rather than simply admit that you don't know.

As for the original 60 80 ton, did you bother considering how that compares to the hourly deliveries down the line? Did you consider how much product would have been in the adjacent kilometer or so either side of the leak? Isn't it obvious that they would have had to react fairly quickly to limit a spill from to those comparatively tiny few ton?

So what, exactly are you trying to prove with your wee shock/horror spin exercise, dude?

[husaberg]

What's apparent is that you have no fucking idea how much of that spill remains in the environment, and in spite of that you'd rather depend on what you want to be true rather than simply admit that you don't know.

As for the original 60 80 ton, did you bother considering how that compares to the hourly deliveries down the line? Did you consider how much product would have been in the adjacent kilometer or so either side of the leak? Isn't it obvious that they would have had to react fairly quickly to limit a spill from to those comparatively tiny few ton?

So what, exactly are you trying to prove with your wee shock/horror spin exercise, dude?

Lets get this straight you said it was only a few tons at most.


Wouldn't have been more than a few tons, .

I pointed out it was at least 60-80 tons by the pipe lines operators own reckoning no less, not including the fuel still in the soil.
60 to 80 tons is neither a minor spill or a tiny few tons. Despite of you continued attempts to make it out to be one.
60 to 80 tons is not a few tons.
It will never be regarded as a minor spill either, especially considering the courts in NZ previously ruled one a mere 10% the size a major spill.
You clearly don't know shit, plus clearly you don't like that being pointed out. Hence you attempts to now make it out to be only a fraction of the pipes capascity, because its irellevent.
As for how much is left i couldn't give a shit, it is in the North Island no one cares about that shit hole. Your attempting to muddy the waters of what was me simply pointing out it wasn't a few tons, just further proves you can't admit you were clearly wrong.

[Ocean1]

Lets get this straight you said it was only a few tons at most.

I pointed out it was at least 60-80 tons by the pipe lines operators own reckoning, not including the fuel still in the soil.
60 to 80 tons is neither a minor spill or a few tons. insipte of you continuied attempts to make it out to be one.
You clearly don't know shit, plus clearly you don't like that being pointed out.
As for how much is left i couldn't give a shit, it is in the north island no one cares about that shit hole.

Yes, you need to stop pointing out shit and start reading shit.


the "virtually nil" after clean up is spin from the pipline company.


Oh right.

So what's the actual number then?


A shit load more than only A few tons.

Now why don't you go practice some?

[husaberg]

Yes, you need to stop pointing out shit and start reading shit.
Now why don't you go practice some?

Practice what?How about you answer the very simple question that has been put to you all ready rather than try and attempt to change the subject yet again


So what is it that was ocean only a few tons or 60-80 tons.
I look foward to you ignoring that one again.

Next thing you will be crowing on that the fuel spill was clearly great for the economy...........

[awayatc]

You blabbering as if Ocean is responsible for this mishap. ..

Where as he seems to be the only one on this forum who actually has practical knowledge about the whole setup.

I find that interesting.
And with a 9000 ton flow per day, 60 to 80 cubes is only 10 to 15 min worth of pumping......

So it is indeed fuck all in the greater scheme of things.

Also put this thread, and the whole forum in perspective.

Relax...and read and learn from what people have to say about a subject they know something about...
And you don't

[husaberg]

You blabbering as if Ocean is responsible for this mishap. ..

Where as he seems to be the only one on this forum who actually has practical knowledge about the whole setup.

I find that interesting.
And with a 9000 ton flow per day, 60 to 80 cubes is only 10 to 15 min worth of pumping......

So it is indeed fuck all in the greater scheme of things.

Also put this thread, and the whole forum in perspective.

Relax...and read and learn from what people have to say about a subject they know something about...
And you don't

No i are not, I am pointing out 60-80 tons is not and never will be a only a few tons.
Ocean can't bring himself to admit that this is the case.
Its really quite simple.
As for the rest.
It doesn't mater what didn't leak out, It matters what actually did.
Your anology reminds me of the Chernobyl power station reactors
By your logic it only melted down a few times the rest of the 20-40 years it was safe as, so don't make a fuss about a few tons of radiation

[ellipsis]

....millions of years ago when I was working for the great Shell company and trusted with big jobs :facepalm:, my mate who was on pipeline and valve inspection with me while we were offloading 'Regular', benzine from a ship to shore tanks, had a 'slight', problem with a valve that would have split 'Shellite' from another tank into the incoming petroleum. We were mixing the Shellite, similar to White Spirit with the Regular spirit, 'cos thats what we did to empty or clean tanks. That's also why the Regular was so fucked up as a fuel generally. All above board too, as the cunts got away with whatever they liked and still do.

Anyway small things become big things when pipes 400mm wide and pumping furiously don't do what was planned because some dumb cunt :facepalm: forgot to spin another valve to shut other shit off. Anyway only a 'few tons' of the shit spilled onto the ground, but hey the bunds were there to hold it in. Like fuck, they were in disrepair also and to this day I'm not really sure where all that crap ended up. but we told the Supervisor the next morning that we had lost a 'few gallons', and after him checking the area out we carried on like nothing had happened.

Common occurrences when humans and large quantities are involved. I wonder how many hundreds of times that has happened since the first big tanks went into that area in 1922.

.

[caspernz]

Also reminds me of a story told to me by a fellow tanker driver. He took a full semi load of diesel to a trucking outfit in the wops. He'd never been there before, but hey, was told where to go and all. Turns out he dropped 32000 litres of diesel into a tank that he had dipped as being "dry" and it was still "dry" after delivery. Wrong tank, no shit, as the one he delivered into was condemned (leaking) years ago. Nobody had ever bothered with following proper lockout procedures until the regular driver who serviced this outfit was on leave at short notice. So strange stuff happens that Joe Public doesn't always find out about...:shit:

What's the bet we get some action on an additional pipeline or alternative delivery stream into Auckland following the MPT pipeline rupture...:innocent::shutup:

[Moi]

The pipeline failure brings into question the "robustness" of all infrastructure in NZ. How robust is the electricity grid? The natural gas network in the North Island? Do TPTB ask "What if...?" questions? Or are they hoping they never have to react to a situation?

[ellipsis]

The pipeline failure brings into question the "robustness" of all infrastructure in NZ. How robust is the electricity grid? The natural gas network in the North Island? Do TPTB ask "What if...?" questions? Or are they hoping they never have to react to a situation?


...TPTB don't give a fuck...it probably won't happen on their three year watch and when it does it's the last watch that fucked up, in their ducking and diving excuses...we already know how many fucking power poles that have been deemed unsafe years back that have not been fixed or replaced, and that's only at that level...third world?...approaching that ...

[jasonu]

The pipeline failure brings into question the "robustness" of all infrastructure in NZ. How robust is the electricity grid? The natural gas network in the North Island? Do TPTB ask "What if...?" questions? Or are they hoping they never have to react to a situation?

New Zealand authorities are typically reactionary rather than proactive. Wait for summat (that is often very predictable) bad to happen before action is taken.

[Ocean1]

The pipeline failure brings into question the "robustness" of all infrastructure in NZ. How robust is the electricity grid? The natural gas network in the North Island? Do TPTB ask "What if...?" questions? Or are they hoping they never have to react to a situation?

I'm hoping they do a fucking sight more than "what if". In fact I know that among the various entities that presumably comprise that nebulous, almost mythical "TPTB" there's a fair bit of cost/benefit analysis going on.

The problem arises, as it almost always does, when the entity on the cost side of the equation isn't the same as the one on the benefit side.

Whatever, our basic services have a reasonable record of reliability over the last generation or so, and I do get tired of all the shock horror bullshit every time there's some minor glitch. But you get no argument from me with the suggestion that it may be time to spend a bit more to match the increased demand over the last decade or so. Presumably those behind all the faux outrage would be all for policy increasing the infrastructure spend over the more widely reported lolly scramble. <_<

[awayatc]

No i are not i am pointing out

Fella...the way you dig into your rant has got me worried.

Please ask an adult to help you get your prescription meds checked

[husaberg]

Fella...the way you dig into your rant has got me worried.

Please ask an adult to help you get your prescription meds checked

Gee thanks for your concern, what year did again you graduate medical school?
It humours me that you actually believe your opinion is would hold some value to me.
Might be best if you go fornicate yourself a few times, or (60-80 times.)

[husaberg]

The pipeline failure brings into question the "robustness" of all infrastructure in NZ. How robust is the electricity grid? The natural gas network in the North Island? Do TPTB ask "What if...?" questions? Or are they hoping they never have to react to a situation?

If you look at the picture of the pipeling rupture you will see a peice of the grid infastructure right next to the Pipeline, Just as well the leaking pipeline wasn't leaking 60-80 tons of volitile petrol at the time.
220 Dual circuit so i would say its the HEN-MDN-A line
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/q/3/7/w/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349. 1lpsgv.png/1505973451335.jpg
The grid infastructre currently is in a run down phase, The New CEO of transpower is apparently more concerned with saving costs rather than maintaining grid integrity.

[Katman]

Gee thanks for your concern, what year did again you graduate medical school?
It humours me that you actually believe your opinion is would hold some valued to me.
Might be best if you go fornicate yourself a few times, or (60-80 times.)

And some people here wonder why I treat you like a complete fuckwit.

:facepalm:

[husaberg]

And some people here wonder why I treat you like a complete fuckwit.

:facepalm:

Yeah right steve, No one else that reads your posts ever questions ever your lack intellect.:laugh:
Tell us again about David Ike and the shapeshifting aliens that are running the planet.:weird:

[Katman]

Yeah right steve No one else that reads your posts ever questions ever your lack interlect.:laugh:

:facepalm:

[awayatc]

what year did again you graduate medical school....your opinion is would hold some value to me...)


Will talk to you again maybe ....
After you finish primary school.

Appears that first grade was the hardest decade of your life so far

[husaberg]

Will talk to you again maybe ....
After you finish primary school.

Appears that first grade was the hardest decade of your life so far

Maybe it would be best that you wait prior to posting until you have something to offer other than childish insults.
Nah thats never stopped Katman, so as you were.

[jasonu]

Well this is fucking stupid!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12031753

[Grumph]

Well this is fucking stupid!

Well - he's been an overstayer for 30 odd years...and he was stupid enough to open his mouth and say what he was going to do.

[JimO]

Well - he's been an overstayer for 30 odd years...and he was stupid enough to open his mouth and say what he was going to do.
if he was a coconut they would let him stay

[jasonu]

if he was a coconut they would let him stay

Yep. Rounding up ethnic types is racist.

[sidecar bob]

So now we've got some Gisborne Maori on the news that wants to paint Captain Cook out of the picture because she doesn't like the idea of her peepiw being "discovered"
Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.

[ellipsis]

So now we've got some Gisborne Maori on the news that wants to paint Captain Cook out of the picture because she doesn't like the idea of her peepiw being "discovered"
Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.

...or history and how we all become a product of it...

[sidecar bob]

...or history and how we all become a product of it...

If her peepiw had been discovered by cannibals she wouldn't have much to complain about now.

[GazzaH]

> Yep. Rounding up ethnic types is racist.

Should they be rounded down? Or rounded off?

[Woodman]

So now we've got some Gisborne Maori on the news that wants to paint Captain Cook out of the picture because she doesn't like the idea of her peepiw being "discovered"
Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.

At the end of the day captain cook "discovering" NZ is a significant enough thing to happen in aotearoa to commemorate. Also you need to read some history on the morioris.

[sidecar bob]

At the end of the day captain cook "discovering" NZ is a significant enough thing to happen in aotearoa to commemorate. Also you need to read some history on the morioris.

I was taught at school in the '70's that they were the original inhabitants of NZ and that the Maori's ate them, but I think the true history of this country is being buried by people with an agenda, so I don't doubt you could possibly turn up a different record of how events went down.

[ellipsis]

I was taught at school in the '70's that they were the original inhabitants of NZ and that the Maori's ate them, but I think the true history of this country is being buried by people with an agenda, so I don't doubt you could possibly turn up a different record of how events went down.


...in the beginning there was a couple of bushy rocks, big fucking rocks...there were smaller rocks too...there was much verdancy and fucking big, and frightening birds...then a bunch of wanderers in hollowed out logs washed up on the rocks...their dogs immediately shit on their new home and the wanderers lit a big fire...it went for a long time...then some time down the chronological track, another bunch of wanderers hove to near the rocks, shit themselves and fucked off...a little more time went past and then some more wanderers turned up, let their pigs and rats go, painted some pictures and hung a hanky up on a stick, calling these rocks somebody else's and we don't give a fuck...then the story unfolds with the normal dramas of being slightly relieved of your country and shit...but that's history...written by the victor, disputed by the vanquished...don't ya love it...History. I mean...

[Voltaire]

So now we've got some Gisborne Maori on the news that wants to paint Captain Cook out of the picture because she doesn't like the idea of her peepiw being "discovered"
Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.

Being from Irish decent I tend to agree with her.

However I dislike that Taika Waititi bleating that we are racist and not pronouncing place names correctly...he can fuck off.

I also wonder about why they have the Commonwealth games as the only ones who got wealth were the fecking British.

The only other thing I wondered about today was why people waste money buying KTM 990's which clearly are so uncomfortable that the very

sight of gravel sends them into stand up mode.

[sidecar bob]

Being from Irish decent I tend to agree with her.

However I dislike that Taika Waititi bleating that we are racist and not pronouncing place names correctly...he can fuck off.

Well he's got a gall saying that. He can't even say arks properly.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So now we've got some Gisborne Maori on the news that wants to paint Captain Cook out of the picture because she doesn't like the idea of her peepiw being "discovered"
Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.

You're so out of fucking touch. It's not fucking 1970. Here's a bit of bedtime reading for you. Do try and get out of the dark ages.

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/maorifying-prisons-isnt-the-solution

[jasonu]

You're so out of fucking touch. It's not fucking 1970. Here's a bit of bedtime reading for you. Do try and get out of the dark ages.

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/maorifying-prisons-isnt-the-solution

10 characters

[sidecar bob]

You're so out of fucking touch. It's not fucking 1970. Here's a bit of bedtime reading for you. Do try and get out of the dark ages.

https://e-tangata.co.nz/news/maorifying-prisons-isnt-the-solution

So someone's got a life story. Sorry, I've missed your point entirely.

[Voltaire]

So someone's got a life story. Sorry, I've missed your point entirely.

Possibly any country that Europeans invaded disadvantaged the existing population.

Its too late to turn the clock back and probably would have been worse if the Dutch or French got a foothold.

The Irish suffered from years of British rule and were treated badly and sent to Prison colonies, seem to have done ok since

they left.

[sidecar bob]

Possibly any country that Europeans invaded disadvantaged the existing population.

Its too late to turn the clock back and probably would have been worse if the Dutch or French got a foothold.

The Irish suffered from years of British rule and were treated badly and sent to Prison colonies, seem to have done ok since

they left.

At least Europeans short circuited their discovery of the wheel.

[Voltaire]

At least Europeans short circuited their discovery of the wheel.

I thought that was Ford with the Mk 3?:innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry, I've missed your point entirely.

Well, that's hardly surprising.

[sidecar bob]

Well, that's hardly surprising.

Given the amazing amount of pointless dribble in the link, i must have glazed over & skim read the last 9/10ths of it. I blame the ADHD.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Given the amazing amount of pointless waffle in the link, i must have glazed over & skim read the last 9/10ths of it. I blame the ADHD.

I did wonder if some of the big words she was using may've been a bit much for you.

[Banditbandit]

At least Europeans short circuited their discovery of the wheel.


Yeah - the wheel was invented in Mesopotamia (what is now Iraq and Kuwait.)

Writing was invented in the same area, and also by the Mayan and Chinese civilizations.

Our numbering system is basically Arabic (try doing advanced mathematics in Roman numerals)

Tell me again about the superior position of European cultures?

[sidecar bob]

Tell me again about the superior position of European cultures?

Again? I don't recall telling you about it the first time.:msn-wink:

[Swoop]

Tell me again about the superior position of European cultures?
Like the Italians?

Beaten by Ethiopia.

Twice!

[TheDemonLord]

Tell me again about the superior position of European cultures?

Well, I mean Australia is a bit of an outlier - but I think we did alright in most places.

[Berries]

Like the Italians?

Beaten by Ethiopia.

Twice!
I saw that, most exciting Commonwealth Games for at least four years.

[JimO]

I saw that, most exciting Commonwealth Games for at least four years.
for some reason there was lots of people with 1 arm

[Kickaha]

Maybe someone should mention the Moriori's.
What about them? they still exist

[Voltaire]

What about them? they still exist

Yeah, cool as.
http://www.yclasicos.com/spa/item/extractimg.cgi?action=large&code=ART28418

[skippa1]

Yeah, cool as.

Oh my good ....thats fuckin hilareous

[Akzle]

Yeah - the wheel was invented in Mesopotamia (what is now Iraq and Kuwait.)

Writing was invented in the same area, and also by the Mayan and Chinese civilizations.

Our numbering system is basically Arabic (try doing advanced mathematics in Roman numerals)

Tell me again about the superior position of European cultures?

whitey (after the fashion of the romans) assimilated other cultures.
whitey itself, really has no "culture" (except, perhaps, rape and pillage and holy grails) (and fucken dickheads on the internet)
arabic decimal, i've been given to understand (and never bothered to learn) is base 7.Metric suffers base 10. we really should be duodecimal by now but the gregorian pope wasnt too happy about progress. but hey. at least we're not US and trying to make the world in binary (base 2)

[Crasherfromwayback]

whitey (after the fashion of the romans) assimilated other cultures.
whitey itself, really has no "culture" (except, perhaps, rape and pillage and holy grails) (and fucken dickheads on the internet)
arabic decimal, i've been given to understand (and never bothered to learn) is base 7.Metric suffers base 10. we really should be duodecimal by now but the gregorian pope wasnt too happy about progress. but hey. at least we're not US and trying to make the world in binary (base 2)

You been a naughty boy again? I see we can't add rep to you...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, cool as.
G]

How to make a 500 Pantah feel fast...

[Paul in NZ]

Possibly any country that Europeans invaded disadvantaged the existing population.

Its too late to turn the clock back and probably would have been worse if the Dutch or French got a foothold.

The Irish suffered from years of British rule and were treated badly and sent to Prison colonies, seem to have done ok since

they left.

Jeeze you guys need to read some history of NZ. The pre treaty ear is really interesting and its not at all like you probably learnt at school.

The potted history…

The earliest people arrived with ocean going technology and very quickly discovered everything worth knowing about the assets and positions of valuable resources like seal colonies, minerals, sea food and moa etc. After a few hundred years the open ocean tech was largely lost and trips back to the homeland stopped. Voyaging became a coastal thing but very seldom did any one place have enough resources for everything so coastal voyaging, overland trips and multiple residences became the norm. Moriori are not overly different but there were always war like tribes and peaceful ones. Ie eaters and the eaten…

The first permanent European residents here were driven by greed or god.

Maori encouraged settlement because they valued education and trade. It was the only way they could get European goods. Local chiefs actively competed to collect bigger and better European settlements and sponsored schools etc.

Once the population got to a certain size it became ‘difficult’ so structure was needed (or so it was said) but the Colonial office was not at all keen on NZ simply because of the logistics involved. It was sold to them with the idea that the local Maori would be exploited so there was a mix now of greed, go and concern. Then the French showed interest and they were not having that thank you – hence the dreadful rush and the ongoing issues…

Once we had a colonial government – oh dear things started going really badly for Maori as the commerce (plunder) people got really well organised and obtained an army…

[Crasherfromwayback]

Once we had a colonial government – oh dear things started going really badly for Maori as the commerce (plunder) people got really well organised and obtained an army…

Think you're wasting your time mate. It's obvious why Maori make up the numbers they do in prisons. The have brown skin. All people with brown skin are bad people and far more likely to break the law.

Well, that's the fucking simpletons version they love.

[mashman]

Think you're wasting your time mate. It's obvious why Maori make up the numbers they do in prisons. The have brown skin. All people with brown skin are bad people and far more likely to break the law.

Well, that's the fucking simpletons version they love.

Similar to Oz, the US it seems. Mind you, it's never as black and white as that... even when it is.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Similar to Oz, the US it seems. Mind you, it's never as black and white as that... even when it is.

Practically any country the honkies colonized. Odd that.

[TheDemonLord]

Think you're wasting your time mate. It's obvious why Maori make up the numbers they do in prisons. The have brown skin. All people with brown skin are bad people and far more likely to break the law.

Well, that's the fucking simpletons version they love.

There's a bit of data that suggests certain character attributes that are valuable in a tribal society and that appear to have a Genetic component - don't translate well into larger village/city living.

And as a thought experiment - imagine if you had 2 groups of people:

1 group had spent the better part of 1,500 years living in large(ish) communities that aren't tribal in nature and weren't closely related familial groups
1 group had spent only 200-300 years living in the same conditions.

Which group do you think might have more trouble living in large villages/towns/cities?

[Crasherfromwayback]

There's a bit of data that suggests certain character attributes that are valuable in a tribal society and that appear to have a Genetic component - don't translate well into larger village/city living.



Esp if you add alcohol. Hardly their fault though is it?

[TheDemonLord]

Esp if you add alcohol.

Definitely.


Hardly their fault though is it?

There is the conundrum - let's assume it's a genetic predisposition:

Does it absolve them of responsibility for committing crime?
Do we have different sentancing, taking into account a persons Genetic Makeup (cause that's not the epitome of Racist)
Do we merely wait for Evolution to take it's slow and Glacial course?
Do we need to raise Ethnic children differently to give them tools to deal with this predisposition (cause that worked so well for the Stolen Generation in Australia)

Point is - it's a massive Can of Worms, no matter which way you slice it. And as far as I can tell, there are no good solutions.

I'd even go so far as to say that all of them are equally Shit.

[jasonu]

3 1/2 years and a strong message. What a joke!!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12011269

[eldog]

Think you're wasting your time mate. It's obvious why Maori make up the numbers they do in prisons.

Time for change or are we wasting our time and need a more permanent solution.

need to intervene before crime. Take control and Stop the stereotype themselves.

Idle hands and minds, lack of resources or want to do stuff.

easier to do crime and act like a gangster than be like us simpletons.

too many areas in NZ with lack of non criminal activity to improve ones lot.

[Akzle]

You been a naughty boy again? I see we can't add rep to you...

yes, and al me posts are on moderation. which seems like more of a punishment for the mods that still have to read through everything i type, whether it makes it to your screen or not.
and this time it's not even c*ssina related.
well.Maybe it is. they're all related down that way.

[Akzle]

There's a bit of data that suggests certain character attributes that are valuable in a tribal society and that appear to have a Genetic component - don't translate well into larger village/city living.

And as a thought experiment - imagine if you had 2 groups of people:

1 group had spent the better part of 1,500 years living in large(ish) communities that aren't tribal in nature and weren't closely related familial groups
1 group had spent only 200-300 years living in the same conditions.

Which group do you think might have more trouble living in large villages/towns/cities?

a) it's perfectly anyone's choice to live in a city.
(except the dole office pays higher if you live in town, so the government would appear to encourage poor people to live in slum areas of the nearest town)
b)watch two flocks of women approach each other at a shopping mall, and tell me it's not tribal in nature.
or anywhere, really. (anti)social cliques persist. you stay se to your own for a sense of security.

[slofox]

whitey (after the fashion of the romans) assimilated other cultures.
whitey itself, really has no "culture" (except, perhaps, rape and pillage and holy grails) (and fucken dickheads on the internet)
arabic decimal, i've been given to understand (and never bothered to learn) is base 7.Metric suffers base 10. we really should be duodecimal by now but the gregorian pope wasnt too happy about progress. but hey. at least we're not US and trying to make the world in binary (base 2)

I taught 7 year olds maths using a multibase approach. Maths was the most popular subject in my classroom...

[TheDemonLord]

b)watch two flocks of women approach each other at a shopping mall, and tell me it's not tribal in nature.
or anywhere, really. (anti)social cliques persist. you stay se to your own for a sense of security.

Good point - I 100% agree we have tribalistic hangovers - a good example is Football Hooliganism - it's modern day tribal Warfare. Hell, I think you could reasonably argue that ALL sport is a derivative of Tribal Combat - in the same way that Jerking off is a derivative of Sex.

There's other examples I can think of - religious denominations is another great one.

For me the question is - how well can we control them?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Time for change or are we wasting our time and need a more permanent solution.

.

Agree 100% with that. As for the rest of your post...not so much.

[eldog]

Agree 100% with that. As for the rest of your post...not so much.

I didn’t expect anyone to agree with me. Far too many people afraid to speak up about the cotton wool applied to people who run rampant with others hard earnt possessions.
true prison would reform most people, there is also a good portion of people who rely on the system to provide a living whether it be on a benefit, prison, criminal activity etc. to have a good time at the expense of others.

Last weekend past thru Kaikohe, a car had driven off the main road and a couple of locals where stripping it by the looks. A few more local kids tried to intimidate the people around them. Cutting in front of cars on their pushies. My rellies lived in this area and I think held in good respect. Myself I will only go back for the road and petrol. Pity really.

cant please everyone at that time of the morning when you haven’t had much sleep for a few weeks and lots of things weighing on you mind.

[scumdog]

Think you're wasting your time mate. It's obvious why Maori make up the numbers they do in prisons. The have brown skin. All people with brown skin are bad people and far more likely to break the law.

Well, that's the fucking simpletons version they love.


My take:
A lot seem to have a giant size chip on their shoulder that whitey doesn't deserve to be better off than them
Some have been bandied from pillar to post by their biological parent(s) who cant be buggered taking the time to be a proper parent (and are often physically/sexually abused, hence are angry with the world)
Every interaction with authority causes an accusation of 'racism' by them for unknown reason (It's their default retaliation).


And other don't get in the shit, hold down jobs and generally get on with life.


But what do I know.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

But what do I know.....

Fuck all when it comes to such sad and serious issues we're facing. I thought a lot better of you.

[jasonu]

AHHH hahahha look at this dumb slut.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037429

[Katman]

Fuck all when it comes to such sad and serious issues we're facing. I thought a lot better of you.

He's classic 'filth'.

[Laava]

AHHH hahahha look at this dumb slut.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037429

Bro she's one of our top womans! Our top womans!!!

[cc rider]

Bro she's one of our top womans! Our top womans!!!Or is that 'on top' womans. :buggerd:

[sidecar bob]

AHHH hahahha look at this dumb slut.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037429

Her club sponsored a race team I was close with a few years ago. She's far from dumb & a bloody good sort.

[Laava]

Or is that 'on top' womans. :buggerd:

One would hope she would be wherever she was paid to go!

[jasonu]

Her club sponsored a race team I was close with a few years ago. She's far from dumb & a bloody good sort.

But I'll bet her flange is a bit sloppy and worn out hence her dislike of younger better looking tighter ling chow pussy competition.

[Katman]

But I'll bet her flange is a bit sloppy and worn out hence her dislike of younger better looking tighter ling chow pussy competition.

I see why you're a Trump supporter.