zxr400 rvf400 Lams approved?

[Feisty92]

Can anyone shed some light as to why the zxr400 and rvf400 are on the list at all?
Ive tried working out the calculations myself but end up with numbers waaaay over the allowed power ratio
I know the rvf had lower power levels stated from the factory but even with the lowest number i can find its still over the limit, same goes for the zxr

[FJRider]

Why is there an issue (with you) having them ON the list .. ?? :scratch:

[Feisty92]

Why is there an issue (with you) having them ON the list .. ?? :scratch:

Ony coz I cant find one :P
I guess im trying to understand something that cant be understood lol

[mr bucketracer]

58hp they stop ,handle.? whats the promblem ? a harly don't

[R650R]

In standard form they don't make a hell of a lot of power and are relatively heavy for what they are.
Had a ZXR400 great bike and good for 135mph/240k on paper but realistically not a hell of a lot faster than the 250 fours.

[Feisty92]

Basically I want a 400cc lams bike but they are ridiculously hard to find. I was kinda hoping I could get some of the others put on there as theyve all got similar stat

[Vinz0r]

You probably atent factoring in the 90kg allowed for tider + gear, and that's why your formula is way off. When you do that and use factory numbers you'll see that the RVF just scrapes in.

Other supersport fours don't make it because they're too powerful/light.

[Feisty92]

You probably atent factoring in the 90kg allowed for tider + gear, and that's why your formula is way off. When you do that and use factory numbers you'll see that the RVF just scrapes in.

Other supersport fours don't make it because they're too powerful/light.

Using the stats from here
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_rvf400r%2094.htm

45kw/(90kg+165kg)*1000= 176kw per tonne?

[Ender EnZed]

Using the stats from here
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_rvf400r%2094.htm

45kw/(90kg+165kg)*1000= 176kw per tonne?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_RVF400#Specifications

At some point the official number was 53 hp (39.5kW), if you use that with the wet weight of 183kg then it works out to 145kW/T.

[Feisty92]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_RVF400#Specifications

At some point the official number was 53 hp (39.5kW), if you use that with the wet weight of 183kg then it works out to 145kW/T.

ah that would explain it lol. Do you know how the Zxr got through?

by my maths
43/(90+162)*1000=170kw/t

[HenryDorsetCase]

Basically I want a 400cc lams bike but they are ridiculously hard to find. I was kinda hoping I could get some of the others put on there as theyve all got similar stat

you get that they're 20+ years old now? A good one will cost you what a five year old ER6 or whatever will cost you. IF you can find one. Then you get to deal with Blue Wang - actually I will save you the trouble: you want spare parts? Mate we dont carry them In fact I'm not even sure that's a Honda you have there. Fantastic bikes sure but thin on the ground.

[FJRider]

Using the stats from here ...


The link you gave was for an RVF400r ... (note the r at the end)

The LAM's list features an RVF400 ... (Note ... NO r)




Different models ... different stat's ...

[Ender EnZed]

ah that would explain it lol. Do you know how the Zxr got through?

by my maths
43/(90+162)*1000=170kw/t

Using the wet weight of 189kg can bring it down to 157kW/T but I couldn't find any power figure less than 59hp. Maybe someone managed to apply using a rwhp number.

The Yamaha FZR400 is on there as well, very similar numbers.

[FJRider]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_RVF400#Specifications

At some point the official number was 53 hp (39.5kW), if you use that with the wet weight of 183kg then it works out to 145kW/T.

Actually ... according to this link ... it's DRY weight.

http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/news-reviews/2014/2/spannerman-%281%29/


The limit for LAMS bikes is 150kW per tonne. You need to know the power of the bike in kilowatts and the tare weight of the bike. The latter might be a bit hard to find as manufacturers often quote kerb weight. 'Tare' weight is the weight of the bike unladen and with no fluids (oil, petrol and the rest). Kerb weight is the bike plus all fluids and a full tank.




Divide the claimed engine power by the claimed tare weight and multiply the result by 1000.

Using a Royal Enfield Bullet as an example, it claims a power output of 20.2kW and a weight of 187kg. If you divide the power by the weight and multiply the result by 1000 you come up with a figure of 108kW per tonne, well under the limit.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The link you gave was for an RVF400r ... (note the r at the end)

The LAM's list features an RVF400 ... (Note ... NO r)




Different models ... different stat's ...

I don't think that is right. You would need to see the code but they are all NC35XXXX

[FJRider]

I don't think that is right. You would need to see the code but they are all NC35XXXX

Check it out yourself ...

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html


Please note: The following list currently displays the more current models available in the New Zealand market. It will be updated as other models, both old and new, are approved by the NZ Transport Agency. Please ensure you pay close attention the degree of specification in the list - for example, a Suzuki GSX650FU model is specified in the list, therefore is a LAMS-approved motorcycle. A Suzuki GSX650F is not on the list and is therefore not LAMS-approved.

[FJRider]

I don't think that is right. You would need to see the code but they are all NC35XXXX

I googled the ZXR400 ... and found a significant difference in HP through the various models.

Being on the LAM's list is a moot point anyway ... if a Learner/Restricted rider is found riding a motorcycle over the prescribed limit/formula ... they would be operating a vehicle outside the conditions of their license.

[Vinz0r]

Some people just loooooove semantics! :bleh:

[sil3nt]

The link you gave was for an RVF400r ... (note the r at the end)

The LAM's list features an RVF400 ... (Note ... NO r)




Different models ... different stat's ...lolwat

There is only one model of RVF.

[R650R]

Actually ... according to this link ... Tare weight.

http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/news-reviews/2014/2/spannerman-%281%29/

Had to change the quote as it didn't bring the speech bubble bit.

Sorry but the guy you are quoting is wrong, he means to say dry weight.
Tare weight is the unladen weight of a vehicle with what ever fuel is in the tank, oil in the engine or tools/strops in toolbox at time.
Don't worry the Herald and Fairfax get it wrong all the time too. BTW while we're here just for the sake of it GCM gross combination mass is the maximum weight of towing vehicle and its trailers. GVM gross vehicle mass is the heaviest safe load rating for that vehicle. Both numbers are manufacturer ratings and have no reference to countries individual weight limits although if they are exceeded in an off-highway situation and the vehicle is later involved in a road accident then it becomes a legal issue.
People with heavily loaded race trailers should be aware of what their ute/vans GCM is...

I'm sure the Japanese market has restrictions too and LAMS will prob use their numbers, its pretty common for most of those jap import fours to have factory restrictions to air intake etc...

[ducatilover]

The link you gave was for an RVF400r ... (note the r at the end)

The LAM's list features an RVF400 ... (Note ... NO r)




Different models ... different stat's ... Nope


I googled the ZXR400 ... and found a significant difference in HP through the various models.



What were your results? I'm quite interested to see.
As far as I remember the '93 onwards ZXR400L was supposedly taken down to 53hp as per Jap rules, but the H and J models were "full fat" with the J having a wee bit more wick, same goes for the M models
You'll never find an M or J model these days though

I think the 400/4s of that flavour are a bit much for a learner, they're not too dissimilar in performance to s standard restricted 250-2T

[FJRider]

People with heavily loaded race trailers should be aware of what their ute/vans GCM is...



Many trucks/vans can be driven on a car license ... but ONLY when they are empty.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I googled the ZXR400 ... and found a significant difference in HP through the various models.

Being on the LAM's list is a moot point anyway ... if a Learner/Restricted rider is found riding a motorcycle over the prescribed limit/formula ... they would be operating a vehicle outside the conditions of their license.

Sorry I was talking about Honda: the VFR400R (Honda code NC30) is not on the lams list, but the RVF400R (NC35) is. the RVF had slightly less HP (by 1) and scraped into the list. I couldnt believe it when I first struck it - I was in Peter Stevens in Melbs and they had a complete minter RVF in there with a bunch of signage going "learner approved". I was gobsmacked.

[FJRider]

What were your results? I'm quite interested to see.
As far as I remember the '93 onwards ZXR400L was supposedly taken down to 53hp as per Jap rules, but the H and J models were "full fat" with the J having a wee bit more wick, same goes for the M models
You'll never find an M or J model these days though

I think the 400/4s of that flavour are a bit much for a learner, they're not too dissimilar in performance to s standard restricted 250-2T

1989 ...44 kw (dry weight 163 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1989.aspx

1991 ... 47 kw (dry weight 162 kg)
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_zxr400%2090.htm

1993 ... 48.5 kw (159 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1993.aspx

1999 ... 47.4 (dry weight 159 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1993.aspx

[ducatilover]

1989 ...44 kw (dry weight 163 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1989.aspx

1991 ... 47 kw (dry weight 162 kg)
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_zxr400 90.htm

1993 ... 48.5 kw (159 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1993.aspx

1999 ... 47.4 (dry weight 159 kg)
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_ZXR_400_1993.aspx

Ah I see. The real conjecture was whether or not they all made 65hp or 59hp. In the manuals I have Kawasaki seem to be adamant that they all make around 59hp. But the J and M models I mentioned before (SP ones, single seat unit, Flatslides and different cdi, supposedly cams too) were probably making close to 65hp on a fucking great day.

[FJRider]

Sorry I was talking about Honda: the VFR400R (Honda code NC30) is not on the lams list, but the RVF400R (NC35) is. the RVF had slightly less HP (by 1) and scraped into the list. I couldnt believe it when I first struck it - I was in Peter Stevens in Melbs and they had a complete minter RVF in there with a bunch of signage going "learner approved". I was gobsmacked.

The NZ LAM's list features the RVF400 and the NC40.

No mention of an RVF400r .... or ... an NC30.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html

Can you produce a more up to date list .. (that DO feature them) .. ???

[ducatilover]

The NZ LAM's list features the RVF400 and the NC40.

No mention of an RVF400r .... or ... an NC30.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html

Can you produce a more up to date list .. (that DO feature them) .. ???

The NC40 is just an NV400 cruiser :yes: not anything fast or special by small bike standards

RVF400 and RVF400R are one and the same :facepalm:

The ZXR however is a relatively recent addition to the list.

[R650R]

Many trucks/vans can be driven on a car license ... but ONLY when they are empty.

Sorry I was talking about overloading, exceeding the maximum towed mass is proper term for cars/vans utes etc... Unless you buy a pretty big SUV/4WD etc most people easily exceed these ratings, doesn't seem to be enforced until there is an accident though...

[HenryDorsetCase]

The NZ LAM's list features the RVF400 and the NC40.

No mention of an RVF400r .... or ... an NC30.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html

Can you produce a more up to date list .. (that DO feature them) .. ???

Fucks sake we are talking around in circles. NC30 NO LAMS NC35 LAMS. Do you get it now?

I have never heard of an NC40 "shadow slasher" until just now. Its some hideous JDM cruiser thing by the looks. To me it looks like a VT750.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The NZ LAM's list features the RVF400 and the NC40.

No mention of an RVF400r .... or ... an NC30.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html

Can you produce a more up to date list .. (that DO feature them) .. ???

where do you think our LAMS list came from? Straya thats where. adopted holus bolus is my understanding.

[FJRider]

where do you think our LAMS list came from? Straya thats where. adopted holus bolus is my understanding.

So ... that's a NO then ... ?? :cool:

Not on the NZ list ... can't ride it on a learners/restricted license IN NZ .. too simple for ya.. ??? :rolleyes:

If it's on the Aussie list ... and you want to ride one (legally) .. go to Aussie. :2thumbsup

[ducatilover]

Have you accepted that the rvf400r and rvf400 are the same thing yet?

[FJRider]

Have you accepted that the rvf400r and rvf400 are the same thing yet?

It matters little (to ANY rider) ... if I do .. or don't .. :motu:

It WILL matter to the Non motorcycle orientated Police officer ... that stops a motorcyclist on a learners/restricted license .. riding a model NOT specifically mentioned on the list. :yes:

If such an Officer does ... not one shit I will give. :killingme

[ducatilover]

It matters little (to ANY rider) ... if I do .. or don't .. :motu:

It WILL matter to the Non motorcycle orientated Police officer ... that stops a motorcyclist on a learners/restricted license .. riding a model NOT specifically mentioned on the list. :yes:

If such an Officer does ... not one shit I will give. :killingme

Touche.
In your interpretation, is a CB400 from the early 90's onwards LAMS legal?

[FJRider]

Touche.
In your interpretation, is a CB400 from the early 90's onwards LAMS legal?

Wiki is often unreliable in their content ... but list specific models through the years. :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB400

Funnily enough ... the LAM's list is ALSO model specific. ... :laugh:

Bottom line ... Models NOT on the list are NOT LAM's approved motorcycles. (Regardless of fact [or figures] or ... conjecture/opinion) :blank:

[ducatilover]

Wiki is often unreliable in their content ... but list specific models through the years. :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB400

Funnily enough ... the LAM's list is ALSO model specific. ... :laugh:

Bottom line ... Models NOT on the list are NOT LAM's approved motorcycles. (Regardless of fact [or figures] or ... conjecture/opinion) :blank:

Well that doesn't answer the question.
It says CB400SF on the LAMS list

Maybe they should include a chassis number, because the list is fucking stupid.

[FJRider]

Well that doesn't answer the question.
It says CB400SF on the LAMS list

There are four models of the CB400 on the list.

1. CB400 (I gather it's the original one)
2. CB400F
3. CB4oosf
4.CB400R


Maybe they should include a chassis number, because the list is fucking stupid.

The LAM's list is A simple list ... with specific approved motorcycle models listed.

There IS a process to get other models ON the list ... if they meet the specifications. (Note ... some time/effort by an applicant IS required ... hence few do)

[ducatilover]

Yes but will a police officer know a modern superfour is not LAMS?

[Swoop]

Then you get to deal with Blue Wang - actually I will save you the trouble: you want spare parts? Mate we dont carry them In fact I'm not even sure that's a Honda you have there.
:yes:

Add in: "we don't hold anything for bikes over xx yrs old" and "we don't work on anything over xx yrs old" from both Wang and also bike shops.

* XX can be anything from 5yrs upwards.:facepalm::pinch::oi-grr:

[rastuscat]

Ony coz I cant find one :P
I guess im trying to understand something that cant be understood lol

Here's another. Women.

Just sayin.

[rastuscat]

Yes but will a police officer know a modern superfour is not LAMS?

No. Most Popos still don't know what LAMS means.

[ducatilover]

For realsies?

[HenryDorsetCase]

1. CB400 (I gather it's the original one)
2. CB400F
3. CB4oosf
4.CB400R


CB400 N or T: twin from the early 80's

CB400F: four cylinder 400 from the 70's

CB400SF is the "suuuuuper four" from the 90's and the CB400R is the fully faired version of that I think.


do you now accept that the RVF400 and the NC35 are the same thing.?

[imdying]

Contrary to popular belief, the police don't actually want to make your day a cunt... it's your insurance company you should worry about; they have a vested interest in not paying out. More than one KBer I know has spent 20 years on a learner license with ne'er a LAMs/250 bike to be seen.

[avgas]

In standard form they don't make a hell of a lot of power and are relatively heavy for what they are.
Had a ZXR400 great bike and good for 135mph/240k on paper but realistically not a hell of a lot faster than the 250 fours.
They are great fun if you drop a tooth in the gearing. I miss mine. Was geared to a top speed about 200-210. Which to be honest I only ever did once on. So the gearing was more me friendly anyway.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jVzGThc278M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Exhaust sounded great......but would make you tone deaf if you road at 100ish for about 20+minutes. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
You would head that sound for days.

[ducatilover]

CB400SF is the "suuuuuper four" from the 90's and the CB400R is the fully faired version of that I think.




Well they have the CC rating wrong if that was the case, my 90's SF had 399cc written on the barrels

[Ender EnZed]

CB400R is the fully faired version of that I think.


I'm not sure such a bike exists. There's a Bol'dor version from the mid '00s but you might be thinking of the CBR400RR. Of much the same flavour as the ZXR/FZR, but for some reason lacking the special stats version to get on the list (along with the GSXR400).

[ducatilover]

The 400R was a fat 80's ugly tank of a thing and there is a new 400r, a smaller version of the CB500

[Ender EnZed]

The 400R was a fat 80's ugly tank of a thing and there is a new 400r, a smaller version of the CB500

That sounds a bit shit.

I like the Bol'dor 400sf; that'd be near the top of my LAMS list if for some reason I couldn't find a DR/KLR650.

[ducatilover]

That sounds a bit shit.

I like the Bol'dor 400sf; that'd be near the top of my LAMS list if for some reason I couldn't find a DR/KLR650.

A Hyper VTEC 3 one for me. Because it's a cool name

[Laxi]

ah that would explain it lol. Do you know how the Zxr got through?

by my maths
43/(90+162)*1000=170kw/t

Never mind the zxr, I want to know why the fzr didn't make the list then? Lol

[Laxi]

Using the wet weight of 189kg can bring it down to 157kW/T but I couldn't find any power figure less than 59hp. Maybe someone managed to apply using a rwhp number.

The Yamaha FZR400 is on there as well, very similar numbers.

Are you sure the fzr is on the list. Last I checked it wasn't

[avgas]

Never mind the zxr, I want to know why the fzr didn't make the list then? Lol
Cos I did too many skids on mine.......sorry.
(yes I have a Youtube video of a mini-genesis-skid too......)

[Ender EnZed]

Are you sure the fzr is on the list. Last I checked it wasn't

Yes. I'm pretty sure it and the ZXR both got added sometime after the list first came out.

I'd link and quote the LAMS list for you but given it's the first result on Google it wouldn't help you much.