Fzr vs gsxr

[Reckless]

OK I've been here nearly 10 years so I know not to take notice of anything on KB but I'm asking anyway? :brick:

I wanna give this Bike racing thing a go before I get to fuckin old! Pit bitchen no more :)
Fairly handy on a bike and done quite a few years in KARTS but I have no illusions on how race experience matters and that stopwatch never lies!
Kawasaki man but they lost their way after they made my Z1R so thats screwed that Idea unless I go GPZ and pre82 but rare as rockin horse shit those.
Budget is low and you can get into pre89 for much less and develop the bike over a couple years.

Right to the point: Pre89 class

Got two bikes in my radar, both std road bikes at this time. Both on 17's already but the GSXR has a 180 size rim fitted.

1990 GSXR1100L have to change the forks back to 1989 to fit the class as they are upside down. 62000K 7/11 it in the future :)

1989-90 FZR1000 Ex-up 55000k not quite sure what can/needs to be done to an FZR?

Looks like the FZR is 145HP and 209 Kilo's the GSXR is 156hp and 221 Kilo's Factory

Right which one and why???

[haydes55]

What one is in better condition?



Any service records?



Does either have excessively worn brake rotors, smoking engine, funny noises etc?



Either one you choose, you will have fun, one might be 0.1 seconds a lap faster.... But is that really your goal just starting out racing? Go for the cheaper one that requires the least amount of maintenance and repairs to get it race ready.

[malcy25]

What colour do you like and which one is going to cost the least because it's going to not pop when it's had it's first big rev on an old motor....That last one will be very dependent upon the quality of the individual bike, not so much the model in question.

The next question is that while I can understand the concept of more power, if you have not raced before (and even if you have a lot of road experience), pick something which may be easier to ride / cheaper to run or get on the track.

The Senior classes get the focus a bit more, but the real racing is in the junior classes (pre 82 or pre 89). FZR600/CBR600 in say pre 89?

[Voltaire]

GPZ 900 needing some lovin...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-792155164.htm

don't forget to factor in tyre warmers,wets, and a noisy as generator.


because it's going to not pop when it's had it's first big rev on an old motor.

I thought only British bikes did that?:clap:

[BigAl]

OK I've been here nearly 10 years so I know not to take notice of anything on KB but I'm asking anyway?

Well since you're not going to take any notice, why bother asking?

[Reckless]

What one is in better condition?
Any service records?
Does either have excessively worn brake rotors, smoking engine, funny noises etc?
Either one you choose, you will have fun, one might be 0.1 seconds a lap faster.... But is that really your goal just starting out racing? Go for the cheaper one that requires the least amount of maintenance and repairs to get it race ready.

I'm expecting to have to do the engine anyway prob sooner rather than later the main reason I posted this thread was to get a base opinion mainly on the FZR?
A lot of the things you ask become secondary in getting the base decision on which brand Ie which chassis would be best.
I suppose its my karting background we would approach a new racing enterprise in a F1 fashion?
Base decision which chassis ie if it where moto3 it'd be Suter or Kalex etc which is why I was asking for opinions on the question.
I know there is a few very very good racers that hang out here form time to time who I don't know well enough (or at all) to call up



What colour do you like and which one is going to cost the least because it's going to not pop when it's had it's first big rev on an old motor....That last one will be very dependent upon the quality of the individual bike, not so much the model in question.

The next question is that while I can understand the concept of more power, if you have not raced before (and even if you have a lot of road experience), pick something which may be easier to ride / cheaper to run or get on the track.

The Senior classes get the focus a bit more, but the real racing is in the junior classes (pre 82 or pre 89). FZR600/CBR600 in say pre 89?

Thanks Malcy
Just really wanting some input on the primary purchase hoping to maybe get an opinion on the FZR maybe from Glen or someone if they spot this thread.
I'll be at Barry Sheene so might hunt him out and say Phil Duxbury on The GSXR and maybe Eddie Kattenburg about his FZR and get some inside :)

Good suggestion about the 600 but think i'll be ok on the thou?? Have Pit bitched for one of the top pre 82 racers for a number of years and karted for many years so familiar with an intense first corner and racing ethos etc. I know my level at a track day and at Superbike school. Just Wanna give the thou a go.
Maybe I have a small dick and want a thou but it certainly wont take long to find out how big the balls are aye LMAO
I guess I just want to know that whats under me if it was in the hands of Glen, Jay or Sean it could win.
Same with my KTM first thing I did was spent $900 on the suspenders and made sure the engine was up to scratch from that point on every hill I don't make is all my fault.

I'm thinking the FZR will handle slightly better given the rep the GSXR's have with their frames??
But the GXSR would make a good base for a 7/11, you can use a bandit motor in them, put a 750 head on, parts would be cheaper and more prevalent??

Been reading heaps about both models

At this stage my 2c is
Gsxr more power less handling
FZR better handling sweeter ride, less engine options etc.

I totally agree with you easier to ride theory so its the FZR at this time Bearing in mind its very early days and I've yet to see pics of the FZR, the GSXR is mint.
Prices similar but the FZR is indicated as a few Hundy cheaper.

[Reckless]

GPZ 900 needing some lovin...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-792155164.htm

don't forget to factor in tyre warmers,wets, and a noisy as generator.

I thought only British bikes did that?:clap:

Cheers for that seen that 900 going to spend extra couple grand get something better condition and 89ish
That way if I do two laps and fall on my pride it'll be worth something to re-sell as a pre 89.

Yep prob have to add a starter to that list, although I might make one of those or teach the missus to push hard enough to crash start me LOL

[nzspokes]

For what its worth, I used to race and track day a bit of historic cars back in the day. Biggest thing I would say is get the machine that is easiest to get parts for. Nothing worse than missing meetings waiting for bits. Interweb makes that easier these days but still applies.

Suspenders will be the big spend I guess but worth it.

[Ender EnZed]

I think mossy used to race an FZR and had some decent onboard footage.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/user/ssmossy1200/videos

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20206-mossy1200

[Reckless]

For what its worth, I used to race and track day a bit of historic cars back in the day. Biggest thing I would say is get the machine that is easiest to get parts for. Nothing worse than missing meetings waiting for bits. Interweb makes that easier these days but still applies.

Suspenders will be the big spend I guess but worth it.

True :( I did a Center drive shaft bearing on a track day in the M3 (prob hammered it to much in Targa) although I was there with Europeon Auto spares nothing else from any other BMer fits the E36, its a bitch watching? Although my Kart very seldom failed.

What you say about parts I have considered and pushes me towards the GSXR but your suspenders question makes me consider the FZR as my biggest learning curve will not be how to twist the throttle down the straight it will be feeling the bike in the corners and learning how to change the suspension to get the best out of the bike (and fear of coarse LMAO)? Its that experiance, that is my biggest hurdle.
I looked at 41's GSXR 7/11 back tyre at the ART day it was freckin perfect. Right temperature, perfectly even heat around the tyre, that shit takes years? LOL

[nzspokes]

True :( I did a Center drive shaft bearing on a track day in the M3 (prob hammered it to much in Targa) although I was there with Europeon Auto spares nothing else from any other BMer fits the E36, its a bitch watching? Although my Kart very seldom failed.

What you say about parts I have considered and pushes me towards the GSXR but your suspenders question makes me consider the FZR as my biggest learning curve will not be how to twist the throttle down the straight it will be feeling the bike in the corners and learning how to change the suspension to get the best out of the bike (and fear of coarse LMAO)? Its that experiance, that is my biggest hurdle.
I looked at 41's GSXR 7/11 back tyre at the ART day it was freckin perfect. Right temperature, perfectly even heat around the tyre, that shit takes years? LOL

I would make a call to Robert Taylor to ask which bike has the best potential suspension package and see what he would charge to make it right for you. Could save a lot of heartache later on.

[Reckless]

I would make a call to Robert Taylor to ask which bike has the best potential suspension package and see what he would charge to make it right for you. Could save a lot of heartache later on.


Actually thats a very good Idea!
Last thing I bought of Rob was my New 250 engine back when he was working for Yamaha and doing Gearbox Kart motors.
He is actually a wizz with 2 strokes, well back then.

[Reckless]

I think mossy used to race an FZR and had some decent onboard footage.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/user/ssmossy1200/videos

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20206-mossy1200

Thanks Ender
I'll drop him a line. Good vid to looks like he needed a tooth or two less in the back over the hill but the bike sounded sweet and smooth :)

[nzspokes]

Actually thats a very good Idea!
Last thing I bought of Rob was my New 250 engine back when he was working for Yamaha and doing Gearbox Kart motors.
He is actually a wizz with 2 strokes, well back then.

Just linked you to a bike that just poped up on FB. Not sure if old enough but very tidy. Worth a look?

[Voltaire]

Cheers for that seen that 900 going to spend extra couple grand get something better condition and 89ish
That way if I do two laps and fall on my pride it'll be worth something to re-sell as a pre 89.

Yep prob have to add a starter to that list, although I might make one of those or teach the missus to push hard enough to crash start me LOL

I kept the starter motor and bought a Lithium battery , whole lot weighs about 3kgs,
1st corner is fine for me as I'm waaaaay down the grid :lol:

[mossy1200]

I think mossy used to race an FZR and had some decent onboard footage.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/user/ssmossy1200/videos

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20206-mossy1200

The only footage with the hot motor was Hampton downs. The rest is stock motor with a cracked sleeve prior to the 1040 kit and flat slides which added 25 odd hp.
Don't forget I wasn't the best rider. A FZR1000w with money spent and same rider would be a faster bike on most tracks.

[mossy1200]

Then again a GSXR looks ok I guess.
Its possible you could get one to handle also perhaps.

[Reckless]

Thanks for your messages Mossy and the pics on here exactly what I was lookin for :clap:

Cheers for your time

[Reckless]

FZR1000 waiting for a response to my offer they reckon off road for six years, clutch locked up??
Went really well before?

mmmmm we shall see??

[sugilite]

Looks like the FZR is 145HP and 209 Kilo's the GSXR is 156hp and 221 Kilo's Factory
Right which one and why???

I raced a GSXR1100K in 90 and a FZR1000 Exup in 91.
The GSXR1100L is a 90 model, but I'm quite sure that it was being sold in NZ in October/November 89, so the whole bike complete with forks should be eligible?

Yes, the FZR handled better, but I did not think there was that much in it. The GSXR is definitely more tuning friendly, more options (and parts available), and can better handle extra power motor wise.
You already seem to have a pretty good handle on the pros and cons of each. :yes:

[Reckless]

I raced a GSXR1100K in 90 and a FZR1000 Exup in 91.
The GSXR1100L is a 90 model, but I'm quite sure that it was being sold in NZ in October/November 89, so the whole bike complete with forks should be eligible?

Yes, the FZR handled better, but I did not think there was that much in it. The GSXR is definitely more tuning friendly, more options (and parts available), and can better handle extra power motor wise.
You already seem to have a pretty good handle on the pros and cons of each. :yes:

Thanks for your input Sug

I'm going for handling at this stage

Even if the GSXR is issued 1989 upside down forks are specifically banned? I'd have to put 89 model forks in that one.
Made an inquiry about the 1990 ZXR750 Paul Pav has on offer and he confirmed Via T/me it was legal because it was manufactured pre 1989 and he has confirmation from Kawasaki.
I'm quite sure the 89/90 FZR1000 exup, twin headlight is legal because there where no changes to the model. And there are a few racing I think.
And you are correct for a bike to be sold in 1990 would most definitely been manufactured Pre 1990 in 89.

History
1987–1988: FZR 1000 "Genesis"
1989–1990: FZR 1000 "Exup", major motor and chassis redesign, two round headlights
1991–1993: FZR 1000 "Exup", USD forks fitted, one rectangular headlight
1994–1995: FZR 1000 "Exup", Revised USD forks, uprated brakes, two "fox-eye" shaped
headlights.


The Chassis number according to CarJam put this particular bike as an L. looking at Google this means 1990. Although with the history of the bikes clearly state Exup was a 89 issue model carried over to 90. I'm fairly confident I should be ok. Given you are allowed the use a 2000 1200 Bandit motor in a GSXR because it is the same as the 89 engine.
I have just facebooked the prez of NZPCRA with pics and Vin number to make doubly sure.

Shit hope my offer is excepted wasted damn near a full work day on this.

[mossy1200]

FZR1000W is the model you can race.
I think the next model had a different oil filter system but rest was the same engine wise through to the thunderace.
Don't waste time with genesis version if you want the best base.
FZR1000W has 5.5 rear wheel and both 17inch and genesis 18inch rear
W has a redesigned ally frame and swingarm
Wisco 1040 and 1080 kits available
Flatslide carbs available.
Port polish and cam and yours ready to race.
If you go total loss you will need drop both starter and alternator as they run from the same drive chain(something I didn't do) or replace the chain while working on the motor as they normaly stretch.
Drop the exup and your in the 150hp area with all this work done as above.
If you lose anything to a gsxr on a straight you will gain it in corner entry speed.

[Reckless]

Thanks all for your feedback Especially Mossy for his emails and a great volume of helpful information!

I am now the owner of a 1989 series FZR1000. Done all my checks, hassled damn near everyone I know at post classic ( thanks Malcy) and Rob Taylor (about suspension potential).
Lucky I have been round the scene fringes for a while and could call the likes of Eddie Kattenburg etc (cheers mate).
No doubt I'll be asking a thousand more questions LOL

Taking quite a punt?? She's not been goin for 6 years, frozen clutch and looks a little uncared for?? but hopefully it'll all work out in the wash???
Its all there and a good base to start from.

Just got to get her up the Aucks From Welly

Thanks Again Mossy etc The journey starts now! :brick:

[Peter Smith]

I am now the owner of a 1989 series FZR1000.
:brick:

Well done for biting the bullet. Come and introduce yourself at the BSOC. :Punk:

[R1madness]

Buying a 1990 bike and changing a couple of things doesnt make it a 89 model.
infact the rule was always meant to be PRE89 (just like the class name) so even using a 89 model is pushing the rules (but allowable)
It really wont matter what bike you choose as they are very similar in performance but try to buy one that conforms to the spirit of the class.....
No matter what you buy tho you will have a fantastic time.
Welcome to the addiction :)

[ellipsis]

Buying a 1990 bike and changing a couple of things doesnt make it a 89 model.

...oh no...here we go...:brick:

[Reckless]

Buying a 1990 bike and changing a couple of things doesnt make it a 89 model.
infact the rule was always meant to be PRE89 (just like the class name) so even using a 89 model is pushing the rules (but allowable)
It really wont matter what bike you choose as they are very similar in performance but try to buy one that conforms to the spirit of the class.....
No matter what you buy tho you will have a fantastic time.
Welcome to the addiction :)

yep what i thought but its a bit of minefield tbh? The Gsxr boyz are allowed to use later year/model engines. Because there where no changes to the engine? I Dont know if i can use the later Thundercat as there where no changes as i understand it but thats long way off.
Quite Frankly i Doubt I'll ever compete at the front so its a non issue?
But I was careful to get a bike with its chassis an engine numbers clearly manufactured issued in the 1989 model year to keep with the spirit of the class.


Update
Found out on delivery hadnt been going for 10 years?
She's in a million bits in the garage. But did get her running and no big knocks. Compressions came up 185 on 1~3 and 190 on 4. So hopefully the base is sound enough?
Aside from that the list of wants and costs to build a race bike are mind boggling??
Wont be on it this summer?

[Sable]

FZR1000 is the one to go for, motor can be modded, and far better frame.

[J.A.W.]

ZX10 mill in ZXR 750 chassis..


Or,

GSX 11 mill in GSX-R 750 chassis..


Or,


FZR 10 mill in FZR 750 chassis..


Or TZR 250 with worked ( cheater) RZ 350 mill..