Which bike? Beginner off-road, experienced on-road. BMW X Challenge vs Honda CRF250L

[Zapf]

Which bike would you choose?

1.) I am a beginner off road
2.) I am very experienced on road

I would like to use this bike to learn the skills and acquire the skills to off road riding, and also go on weekend / multi day trips.

The budget allows for either a
2007 BMW X Challenge with 11'000km's that is fitted out with good suspension and kit.

or

2014 Honda CRF250L with no kit and 7'000km.

Honda is around 2'000 dollars cheaper than the BMW.

I am at a lost if I should get the BMW 650 that is better equipped but older, or a Honda 250 that we know will run well but I will grow out of it quickly...

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Box'a'bits]

A Yamaha WR250R will sit between the two & has a better suspension package than the CRF :yes:. Lighter is better, but the two smaller bikes will be less comfortable on road (seat).

[Padmei]

Dr or KLR650
cheaper & better

[Box'a'bits]

Dr or KLR650
cheaper
Fixt. You gets what you pay for.

[clint640]

How tall are you? The X-Challenge has a really high seat which is not going to be fun for an offroad n00b unless you are 6'4"+ It does win points for being one of the lighter 650 class machines though.


A Yamaha WR250R will sit between the two & has a better suspension package than the CRF :yes:. Lighter is better, but the two smaller bikes will be less comfortable on road (seat).

Good advice above :yes: While the WR-R is listed with a fairly high seat it can be lowered really easily. There's a virtually new 2012 on tardme for $7500 at present. Re seats, remember that you can probably upgrade the seat on most dirtbikes for less than the cost of a set of tyres.

Another thing to watch is fuel range. Once you start heading out for a bit of backroad touring this can be an issue on many smaller bikes so checking out the price/availability of bigger gas tanks often needs to be part of the purchase equation.

Cheers
Clint

[oneblackflag]

WR250r... No bias... ;)

Biger 11lt fuel tank ~$250 + shipping. Seat.. I make do with stock but I believe around same price as tank.

Quite a step up from the Honda me thinks and no sexuality brought into question ('cept its a 250).

Will make 28 Hp with usual mods.

Probably get an 08 for 5.5-6k

[Zapf]

How tall are you? The X-Challenge has a really high seat which is not going to be fun for an offroad n00b unless you are 6'4"+ It does win points for being one of the lighter 650 class machines though.

Good advice above :yes: While the WR-R is listed with a fairly high seat it can be lowered really easily. There's a virtually new 2012 on tardme for $7500 at present. Re seats, remember that you can probably upgrade the seat on most dirtbikes for less than the cost of a set of tyres.

Another thing to watch is fuel range. Once you start heading out for a bit of backroad touring this can be an issue on many smaller bikes so checking out the price/availability of bigger gas tanks often needs to be part of the purchase equation.

Cheers
Clint

THANKS,
I am 5"10. For the G650 Xchallange with the Ohlins it will be lowered a bit. By how much I am not sure.

Yes I see the WR250R on tardme. I can't find one in Auckland to sit on, let alone test ride. Anyone know of any around AK?

The WR250 only has 7.6L I see http://www.nomadtanks.com/ has a 4.0L tank for the WR250R. That is still only 11L. How far will that get me? 270km?

Ta
Zapf

[oneblackflag]

The WR250 only has 7.6L I see http://www.nomadtanks.com/ has a 4.0L tank for the WR250R. That is still only 11L. How far will that get me? 270km?

Ta

Zapf
Yes bout 270km for 11lts mind you mines remapped with full exhaust and open airbox.

[Night Falcon]

Good advice above :yes: While the WR-R is listed with a fairly high seat it can be lowered really easily. There's a virtually new 2012 on tardme for $7500 at present.

Cheers
Clint

The reserve on that one was $9K when it didn't sell a couple of weeks ago. There is an 08 there as well with a 290kit and lots of extras including a 14l tank which looks interesting.

[RMOTO]

THANKS,
The WR250 only has 7.6L I see http://www.nomadtanks.com/ has a 4.0L tank for the WR250R. That is still only 11L. How far will that get me? 270km?

Most small/mid sized bikes have small fuel tank capacity from factory and upgrading tanks for adventure riding is commonplace. Upgrading to a larger tank is often easier than adding auxiliary tanks as they may interfere with luggage options.

This article has been recently updated which has some helpful info on bike selection:
http://www.remotemoto.com/articles/choosing-an-adventure-bike/

Cheers

Josh

[CRM]

I would go for a smaller bike for learning off-road. I've had a bunch of trail-style bike and honestly the most fun has been on the smaller ones. It takes a very experienced rider to enjoy a taller/heavier/larger bike off-road. I've ridden a WR250 and had a DRZ400 and XR600 and they are great in the more open areas but for cow-trail type stuff, mud, creeks and all that good stuff if you aren't too tall (I'm 5'9") a shorter bike like a CRF250L is definitely easier to work with.

[Devil]

How far off road are you thinking of heading, Felix? Just don't listen to that Alan guy. Heh. You can try my KTM 690 if you like but it can be a bit of a handful for a noob. If you want to try the real easy end of things we've just acquired an XT250/

PS: Would like to talk to you about Europe travelling...

[Scubbo]

yes, i'd recommend an XT250 they're great, were some new ones in tauranga gonig for cheap a few months ago -- yam NZ seems to gouge like crazy but they were ~ 5K new? and the new EFI year IIRC

[thepom]

Ktm 690 ideal
..just turn the ignition mapping switch to beginners mode and when your skill level gets better switch it to mwdium or crazy !

[Gremlin]

How far off road are you thinking of heading, Felix? Just don't listen to that Alan guy. Heh. You can try my KTM 690 if you like but it can be a bit of a handful for a noob. If you want to try the real easy end of things we've just acquired an XT250/

PS: Would like to talk to you about Europe travelling...
Yeah, when Zapf thinks off road, it's actually still a road. First up will be getting him happy on gravel roads, then progressing through to adventure roads, rivers, Motu etc. He can confirm, but I don't envisage he'll be looking for too much more adventure than the likes of Nevis/Rainbow etc. So it's technically speaking still roads.

He's already had plenty of my advice. :bleh: No, due to size, he can't get a GSA :lol: That said (and it's not for everyone) I did learn adv riding on my 1200GSA. It was OK for me, but then it's still mostly "roads". Show the bike some sand and it usually gets tired (well, that's my excuse) :whistle:

Contact him re Europe, he's happy to advise and actually really suggests you talk to him first.

edit: He was considering more dual purpose, DR/KLR but seems to have swung back to street legal dirt bike kinda stuff. My advice now is freaken buy something and start falling off. Best way to learn :D

[nzspokes]

Nice KDX200 for sale on here. Learn how to ride off road for not much at all.

[Maha]

I understand the R1200GSA go ok of the beaten track.

[Gremlin]

I understand the R1200GSA go ok of the beaten track.
95k on the clock and still going too. Unfortunately, he'd be lucky to get it off the side stand, probably couldn't get his feet down when it was upright and no chance in the rough stuff...

I think it's awesome tho! :2thumbsup

[Waihou Thumper]

Say no more....:)
You just ride it and when you get to your destination,
You feel invigorated....
It performs like a road bike and can handle to tough stuff like a trail bike, albeit a big bugger!

[Zapf]

How tall are you? The X-Challenge has a really high seat which is not going to be fun for an offroad n00b unless you are 6'4"+ It does win points for being one of the lighter 650 class machines though.

Went and sat on a WR250R, balls of my foot can touch the ground. and on a CRF250L I am flat footed.

What is the better ergo?

[Devil]

He's already had plenty of my advice. :bleh: No, due to size, he can't get a GSA :lol: That said (and it's not for everyone) I did learn adv riding on my 1200GSA. It was OK for me, but then it's still mostly "roads". Show the bike some sand and it usually gets tired (well, that's my excuse) :whistle: :D

Piffletits! He's a taller than me and I didn't have major troubles on the GSA hehe. But yes, something manageable is good.

I will get in touch next week, away this weekend.

ps: What are you, his PA? hah

[Gremlin]

ps: What are you, his PA? hah
Everything short of owner/director. Depends who I'm talking to as to which title I get to use :innocent:

[Ocean1]

Which bike would you choose?


Which one is easier to pick up?

That's it really.

[pampa]

my 2 cents

Note: I own XChallenge

the Challenge seat is one of the highest or the highest of all adventure bikes (whatever CC around), with lower seat is better but still high. Of course ground clearance is really good. If you stand as you are supposed then is not such a big deal (most of the time :innocent:). At 1.83 I barely reach ground.

The bike is reasonable light (144kg), very well balanced. Has very good fuel economy, it does about same distance on one a tank than Ktm 690 with 3 less lts of fuel.

I'm not going to compare with other bikes except Dakar which I owned previously, its waaay better. Right away after switching I felt more comfortable tackling nastier terrain.

Good luck its fun

[calfinm]

Another wr250r vote here. Mines been packed and ridden for week plus trips and then ridden around woodhill when the ktms been sidelined. But I guess it depends what sort of off road skills your looking to learn . That crf is a cheap start price as long as its capable, haven't ridden one myself .

[Zapf]

my 2 cents

Note: I own XChallenge

the Challenge seat is one of the highest or the highest of all adventure bikes (whatever CC around), with lower seat is better but still high. Of course ground clearance is really good. If you stand as you are supposed then is not such a big deal (most of the time :innocent:). At 1.83 I barely reach ground.

The bike is reasonable light (144kg), very well balanced. Has very good fuel economy, it does about same distance on one a tank than Ktm 690 with 3 less lts of fuel.

I'm not going to compare with other bikes except Dakar which I owned previously, its waaay better. Right away after switching I felt more comfortable tackling nastier terrain.

Good luck its fun

Thanks,
Please tell me, if the rear suspension is connected via linkage so it can be lowered via dog bone. Or directly mounted?

I am thinking if it is able to be lowered if I had to. I am 1.78.

When you say you barely reach ground, we talking about flat footing or ball of foot? I found today I am able to have ball of foot on ground on a WR250R which is suppose to have the same seat hight as the XChallange. I can't find one to seat on in Auckland hence all the questions.

Its way better than Dakar?

Any ownership issues? parts / servicing / etc?

Cheers
Zapf

[pampa]

Its directly mounted (on top of swingarm) much like Ktm PDS system.

With original shock ball or tip of both legs, with coil shock its better (note the shock is still standard size I didn't want to compromise suspension efficiency besides at this stage I got used to height)

Its better than F650 Dakar in the sense that is:
* lighter (significantly)
* has bit more power 3HP extra (plus weight advantage) (6HP more on new Sertao)
* much better suspension from factory
* higher ground clearance
while still being reasonable on motorway

Ownership
* most engine parts are common with Funduro, GS650 and G650 which is current model
* bearings and that are common items can be bought easily
* non standard items are swingarm, wheels, hubs, rear sprocket.
** Rear sprocket is available on few brands (chain and front sprocket are not problem, no more than any other bike that is :D)
** Rims are relatively soft only an issue if you ride really hard
* 10,000K service intervals are nice and spaced (I follow BMW schedule of changing fluids once a year)
* Disc brake rotor have bought aftermarkets at reasonable price and very good quality. (Pads are pretty common on a few bikes)
* Lights are standard too most of them can be bought on Repco, and indicators are common to few brands

I do most service myself and don't find it expensive. There are exceptions on some original items are expensive and take a while to get here but have found alternatives most of the time.

Hope this gives you an idea, happy to answer any other question if I can


Thanks,
Please tell me, if the rear suspension is connected via linkage so it can be lowered via dog bone. Or directly mounted?

I am thinking if it is able to be lowered if I had to. I am 1.78.

When you say you barely reach ground, we talking about flat footing or ball of foot? I found today I am able to have ball of foot on ground on a WR250R which is suppose to have the same seat hight as the XChallange. I can't find one to seat on in Auckland hence all the questions.

Its way better than Dakar?

Any ownership issues? parts / servicing / etc?

Cheers
Zapf

[nzspokes]

Another thought is to hire a bike at Thundercross park and do the trail rides there. Good way to learn. I would pop out for that.

[pete-blen]

Thanks,

I am thinking if it is able to be lowered if I had to. I am 1.78.

When you say you barely reach ground, we talking about flat footing or ball of foot? I found today I am able to have ball of foot on ground on a WR250R which is suppose to have the same seat hight as the XChallange. I can't find one to seat on in Auckland hence all the questions.



Cheers
Zapf

A over looked point.......
As far as seat hight goes the bike should sink around 1/3 of its suspesion travel when
you are on the bike..
A bike with 300mm of travel the seat should be around 100mm
lower with rider weight on the bike....
Have the sags set correctly.... which may require respringing...

[Gremlin]

Another thought is to hire a bike at Thundercross park and do the trail rides there. Good way to learn. I would pop out for that.
He was due out with Broxy at Woodhill around midday today... haven't heard from him :devil2:

[Zapf]

He was due out with Broxy at Woodhill around midday today... haven't heard from him :devil2:

Got given a 250 Honda to ride at Wood hill.

A bit unnerved riding out the car park into the soft bits of sand.

Under GREAT instructions from Broxy, like seating forward and leaning back... and a suitable bike & (NOBBLEY tires which are new to me) I find that I can ride over loose surfaces and still have traction (more gas helps too).

Fell over 1/2 dozen times

Ripped my Goretex pants at the Knee...!!!

Gave me a good taste of what it is like riding in Sand... (literally... sand in teeth)

Today I am damm sore from the workout...

I hope riding on other surfaces are easier... and now to get a suitable bike myself to do more practice. :banana:

[Bass]

Got given a 250 Honda to ride at Wood hill.

A bit unnerved riding out the car park into the soft bits of sand.

Under GREAT instructions from Broxy, like seating forward and leaning back... and a suitable bike & (NOBBLEY tires which are new to me) I find that I can ride over loose surfaces and still have traction (more gas helps too).

Fell over 1/2 dozen times

Ripped my Goretex pants at the Knee...!!!

Gave me a good taste of what it is like riding in Sand... (literally... sand in teeth)

Today I am damm sore from the workout...

I hope riding on other surfaces are easier... and now to get a suitable bike myself to do more practice. :banana:

Felix,
Way back in this thread, Alan indicated that some gentle to moderate gravel is the probable first step that you are aiming for and may in fact be as far as it goes long term. If this is true, then just about anything with knobs on will do. The last time time I did The Long Way Round (Taupo), one guy (a very experienced one I admit) did it on a Scorpio with knobs, including all the challenge sections. Sure, a bit of extra suspension travel helps but really doesn't make that much difference until you get into the rougher stuff.
So why knock yourself around (if the foregoing is true that is)?

Sure the 250 is easier to handle but in the going we are discussing, not by a huge margin. It's real advantage is in the knarly stuff. On top of that, it will have a lower cruise speed, limited fuel range and limited luggage carrying capacity compared to any of the 600 and up machines. This will make overnighters, not impossible but certainly more spartan.

I was in the same boat as you a couple of years back and say just go get a DR, a KLR or the Beemer 650 you mentioned and just do it. I did and 5 months later did 18,000 km around outback Australia.
I'm a no talent old fart so it can't be that hard. I'm also 1.78 meters tall too.

[nodrog]

get an sv650

http://www.seppes.com/photos/635375179_T8wqd-XL.jpg

[nzspokes]

I hope riding on other surfaces are easier... and now to get a suitable bike myself to do more practice. :banana:

Yes they are easier. As I said the KDX thats on here is a good learning point but not road legal. But buy it for 2 k and sell it in a year or 2 for 2k. Fall off it, swear at it and have one hell of a laugh.

Thundercross is a great learning place.