70% charge in 2 minutes - a game changer?

[SPman]

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Li-ion Batteries That Recharge To 70% In 2 Minutes

Scientists at Nanyang Technology University (NTU) have developed batteries they say can be recharged up to 70 per cent in only two minutes and have a lifespan of 20 years.In traditional lithium ion batteries, graphite used for the anode (negative pole). The potential game changer in NTU’s battery is an anode made from titanium dioxide

Lithium-ion batteries usually use additives to bind the electrodes to the anode, which affects the speed in which electrons and ions can transfer in and out of the batteries .
However, Prof Chen’s new cross-linked titanium dioxide nanotube-based electrodes eliminates the need for these additives and can pack more energy into the same amount of space....

Apparently making the new gel is quite easy and only involves mixing titanium dioxide and sodium hydroxide at a certain temperature. The team says battery manufacturers will find it simple to integrate the new gel into current production processes.

Rather than being a development that could take many years before it becomes generally available, Prof Chen expects the batteries will hit the market in the next two years – the technology has already been licensed by an unnamed company.
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http://media.ntu.edu.sg/NewsReleases/Pages/newsdetail.aspx?news=809fbb2f-95f0-4995-b5c0-10ae4c50c934

Is this the game changer that makes electric vehicles everyday viable?.

[paturoa]

Big fat cables required!

Not sure I believe that, wouldn't the internal resistance of the batt have to be a lot lower than current tech?

[AllanB]

Will The Warehouse sell them?

[bogan]

There has been a few game-changer type technical advances by the boffins of late, just waiting on it to come through the pipeline to consumer... which of course is the real test.

[Akzle]

depends what capacities can be achieved. whether it works on 18v 4-8Ah powertools... or 400Ah marine batts... interesting certainly. not so useful for those of us with no electric connection...

[Gremlin]

Big fat cables required!

Not sure I believe that, wouldn't the internal resistance of the batt have to be a lot lower than current tech?
Since they're changing the materials used within the battery, it's re-writing the rules.

The tech also has benefits in basically any industry that has a need for batteries. Much like the shift from nicad to lith-ion etc... it's the next step.

[Naki Rat]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/H5V0vL3nnHY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A newly charged 80kWh battery in less time than it takes to fill up an (Internal Combustion Engine) ICE vehicle :niceone:

And from the owner of a Nissan LEAF the energy costs are a small fraction of that of an ICE. >4c/km at retail electricity price, or <1.6c based on Meridian's buy back price for most of our PV generation. And a LEAF will beat most ICEs away from a standing start!

[YellowDog]

Big fat cables required!

Not sure I believe that, wouldn't the internal resistance of the batt have to be a lot lower than current tech?

100mm platform rubber boots required when connecting the 24mm 20,000watt charger :o

I guess that's what those Indian guys at the fuel stops could do for you.

70% in 2 minutes is pretty impressive. Does the remaining 30% take 23hrs 58minutes?

[Naki Rat]

100mm platform rubber boots required when connecting the 24mm 20,000watt charger :o

I guess that's what those Indian guys at the fuel stops could do for you.

70% in 2 minutes is pretty impressive. Does the remaining 30% take 23hrs 58minutes?

The reasoning behind charging only to 70% is that Li-Ion batteries have no tolerance for overcharging as this is potentially very explosive. A "Rapid Charger" such as the 44kW one in Whangarei (https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=z5TLmGlr17Lo.kqU3WsuoKto0) is capable of providing an 80% charge for a LEAF's 24kWh Li-Ion battery in 30 minutes, which is restricted to that percentage for the same safety reason.

Regarding 'fat cabling' our home charging outlet is capable of 7kW and has a dedicated 32amp feed. Our first generation LEAF restricts its charge rate to 3.3kW but this has been increased to 6.6kW on the current model. (Not the current NZ new $40K LEAF which is ex-AU stock of 1st generation vehicles).

[AllanB]

It's a odd one.

In theory it won't be long before instead of pouring petrol out of a hose at the station you'll be plugging in a big cable. Hmmm will you be able to set values of your 'fill-up'? Currently I can put in $10 of fuel if I like - will I be able to punch in $10 of 'power'?

[Naki Rat]

It's a odd one.

In theory it won't be long before instead of pouring petrol out of a hose at the station you'll be plugging in a big cable. Hmmm will you be able to set values of your 'fill-up'? Currently I can put in $10 of fuel if I like - will I be able to punch in $10 of 'power'?
There are two reasons not to 'part fill' the battery. Firstly a full charge on a (Nissan LEAF) 24kWh battery would cost about $4 at retail electricity rates and this gets about 100km of travel so why not fill right up. Also based on that the cost of charging the biggest EV battery which is currently the Tesla's 80kWh would be <$14.

Also the total battery life of Li-Ion batteries is largely governed by number of charge cycles whether they are total or part charges.

[SPman]

I think they're working on 10,000 charge cycles on this one.

[AllanB]

'On-the-go' charge rates will be significantly higher than charging at 'home rates'.

For example I charge by CBRE1000 (the E is a reference to electric and the 1000 references the equivalent power output of the electric engine in relative petrol powered hp terms) overnight Friday and head out for a hoon on Saturday to Kaikoura (160 odd kms), while stopping at my favorite cafe/bar I plug the bike in for the return trip.

This works well for the eatery as they have set up a charging station and the hour plus of rapid charging I require to get home means I'll spend money on their food and drinks. As a side note while chatting to the manager he tells me a lot of motorcyclists stop for lunch and and he was thinking of setting up a lap dance studio out the back - he asks my opinion. Considering the thickness of leather pants I recommend he considers employing very fit girls as they will have to work twice as hard due to the thickness of cowhide.

I complete my meal while pondering the stereotypical opinion of the manager and his presumption that motorcyclists would automatically gravitate toward a lap dance studio. I make a note to apply for a Government grant to study this, after all Government subsidized lap dances for motorcyclists may vastly improve our poor road statistics. Theory being a relaxed rider may be less inclined to ride in an aggressive manner.

I collect my account and notice a $25 charge for the bikes 'fill-up'. It would have cost me $10 at home but I am paying the the service, compliance costs for the business to set-up and on-going compulsory three monthly electrical warrants. Not to mention the resource consent they had to apply for.

I ride back to Christchurch in a aggressive manner - all this lap dancing talk has got the adrenaline pumping and I'm buzzing.

[Naki Rat]

'On-the-go' charge rates will be significantly higher than charging at 'home rates'.

.......
I collect my account and notice a $25 charge for the bikes 'fill-up'. It would have cost me $10 at home but I am paying the the service, compliance costs for the business to set-up and on-going compulsory three monthly electrical warrants. Not to mention the resource consent they had to apply for.

.......
$10 for a home charge? That's either one hell of a big battery (40kWh?), or else very inefficient charging?

With the increasing amount of EVs in NZ many vehicle dealerships and other businesses are installing charging stations, many of which are free to use as an incentive to attract customers. There was a pair of 7kW chargers installed at Sylvia Park a couple of weeks ago. Map of current NZ public chargers here (http://juicepoint.co.nz/public_charging.php).

[Swoop]

With the increasing amount of EVs in NZ many vehicle dealerships and other businesses are installing charging stations, many of which are free to use as an incentive to attract customers. There was a pair of 7kW chargers installed at Sylvia Park a couple of weeks ago. Map of current NZ public chargers here (http://juicepoint.co.nz/public_charging.php).
I can foresee more summers where "conserve electricity, the hydro lakes are low again!" is being broadcast nationwide.

[AllanB]

I can foresee more summers where "conserve electricity, the hydro lakes are low again!" is being broadcast nationwide.

Bloody good point really. NZ's power supply is 'acceptable' at best, push it further and .........

It could be a master plan to go nuclear.

[huff3r]

Bloody good point really. NZ's power supply is 'acceptable' at best, push it further and .........

It could be a master plan to go nuclear.

Contact just opened a BIG new geothermal plant. Consistent, reliable power. I vaguely recall some statistic along the lines of could power all of Wellington or something...

[bogan]

Bloody good point really. NZ's power supply is 'acceptable' at best, push it further and .........

It could be a master plan to go nuclear.

I think the bigger issue is infrastructure, come 5:30 pm and everyone is trying to charge their cars at 10kW each... going to be some toasty wiring. There are potential benefits too though, especially in countries relying heavily on solar for short term energy storage to load balance supply/demand; but again that needs infrastructure adaption.


No I dont think reducing the time to charge will be a game changer but increasing the duty cycle between charges of 800km or more will be as it with then be possible to travel a long distance between charges.

That is not what duty cycle is. Range is only a problem if there is no charging station in between, 5mins every 200km is nothing.

[ducatilover]

Bloody good point really. NZ's power supply is 'acceptable' at best, push it further and .........

.

Knowing a joker in the industry very well (he is a supplier and very clever fulla with 'leccy stuff and powah station type crap, I do not understand his mumblings), we cannot faccilitate a large increase in charging 'leccy vehicles.
But this is the internet and 'leccy car owners be crayyyyzeee and shit, so people with real life experience, who design the systems used around the world don't know shit. And your stroy was the best one I have read in a while.

So bring on the lapdancing electric charging lunch breaks

[James Deuce]

It's the same old, "Working model in 5 years, in production in 10 years", vague waffle that lots of development scientists are forced to trot out to maintain funding. It won't be a thing in our lifetime.

[James Deuce]

Contact just opened a BIG new geothermal plant. Consistent, reliable power. I vaguely recall some statistic along the lines of could power all of Wellington or something...

That's not big. Wellington is a small to medium sized town in real countries.

[Naki Rat]

I can foresee more summers where "conserve electricity, the hydro lakes are low again!" is being broadcast nationwide.
Keep in mind that when Tiwai Point throws in the towel due to the dire state of international aluminium prices, Manapouri's generation will see us producing more than NZ's electricity demands by a wide margin. Add to that the growing uptake of PV installations (despite our government's total lack of incentives to do so) and we won't be seeing electricity shortages in the medium term at least.


Bloody good point really. NZ's power supply is 'acceptable' at best, push it further and .........

It could be a master plan to go nuclear.
The problem is not a lack of generation so much as the sad state of the distribution network (exploding cables in Auckland!!). It is suggested that around 15% of NZ's generated power is lost during distribution, which is approximately equal to Dunedin's power consumption!

'Distributed Generation' such as (grid tied) PV and other micro-generation takes loading off of the national grid. For example our 6kW of PV's generation is consumed by us or neighbours within a few hundred metres of us, and much of our EV's charging is from our own generation.

Nuclear isn't a goer for NZ primarily because the minimum sized power station would produce many times our electricity demands, and we can't export the excess due to a lack of land borders.

[James Deuce]

Keep in mind that when Tiwai Point throws in the towel due to the dire state of international aluminium prices, Manapouri's generation will see us producing more than NZ's electricity demands by a wide margin. Add to that the growing uptake of PV installations (despite our government's total lack of incentives to do so) and we won't be seeing electricity shortages in the medium term at least.


The problem is not a lack of generation so much as the sad state of the distribution network (exploding cables in Auckland!!). It is suggested that around 15% of NZ's generated power is lost during distribution, which is approximately equal to Dunedin's power consumption!

'Distributed Generation' such as (grid tied) PV and other micro-generation takes loading off of the national grid. For example our 6kW of PV's generation is consumed by us or neighbours within a few hundred metres of us, and much of our EV's charging is from our own generation.

Nuclear isn't a goer for NZ primarily because the minimum sized power station would produce many times our electricity demands, and we can't export the excess due to a lack of land borders.

I reckon you've nailed it, though I thought the losses across Cook Strait were MUCH higher than 15%. Where's Jantar when you need him? :)

[Swoop]

Keep in mind that when Tiwai Point throws in the towel due to the dire state of international aluminium prices, Manapouri's generation will see us producing more than NZ's electricity demands by a wide margin. Add to that the growing uptake of PV installations (despite our government's total lack of incentives to do so) and we won't be seeing electricity shortages in the medium term at least.
Very true with Tiwai.

In other countries, over-supply = no shortages = lower prices.
Shall we all hold our breath?


Where's Jantar when you need him? :)
Yes, where is our resident expert?
Did he say that he was off delivering a paper at a conference?

[Big Dave]

I can foresee more summers where "conserve electricity, the hydro lakes are low again!" is being broadcast nationwide.


Did you forget you live in NZ?

[avgas]

Nuclear isn't a goer for NZ primarily because the minimum sized power station would produce many times our electricity demands, and we can't export the excess due to a lack of land borders.
Pebble bed starts at 1MW......but even that is old school.....

But the thing I don't get is people in NZ are too stoopid/scared to look at Thorium Reactors. Yet NZ is in the best position to be lead the world in the stuff. Best of all - its safe. Unlike every other power plant in NZ.
Or it could be part of the whole Mr Key getting into bed with USA and the massive amounts of US patents in coal/gas/plutonium.... generators that companies like GE etc have.

[James Deuce]

GE have a 350kW nuclear reactor available and the Ruskies have been selling 200kW ones from retired subs for ages. The Ruskie ones are disposable though. You stick them in the ground in a concrete bunker, connect the coolant hoses and then fill the bunker with concrete when the fuel runs out. Oh and disconnect the coolant hoses.

[MisterD]

I think my iphone has this technology already. The battery suddenly goes into the red zone and it turns off, then I take it home plug it in to charge and it make that cheerful "bing" noise and is instantly at 54%.

[buggerit]

what voltage are these batteries?

[YellowDog]

So you know how when you pay $2.04 for a litre of fuel in Manukau and then you head out into the sticks and the very same litre of fuel costs $2.21; what are the chances of the new style fuel stations fixing their prices around scarcity and lack of choice?

If the average vehicle provides say $7.50 of profit to the garage franchise owner, where will they be getting their $7.50 from to justify their existence?

Coffee anyone ?

[R650R]

Batteries are so yesterday. The emerging technology that works seems to be petrol powered motor and a recovery system from when braking coasting that stores energy in capacitor and releases it when needed.
All of these batteries are heavy and have major fire risk/heat dissappation issues.

[oldrider]

I can foresee more summers where "conserve electricity, the hydro lakes are low again!" is being broadcast nationwide.

Well they used to keep a big pile of coal up in Huntly that was the equivalent of a full lake for burning when we had dry years in the South! :sunny:

Greenies (Under Helen Clark) wouldn't let them burn that so they sold it off overseas, now you just have dry years in the South and dark cold nights in the North! :eek:

[bogan]

Batteries are so yesterday. The emerging technology that works seems to be petrol powered motor and a recovery system from when braking coasting that stores energy in capacitor and releases it when needed.
All of these batteries are heavy and have major fire risk/heat dissappation issues.

Nah that's just halfassery, why have both an electric system and a petrol one when a pure electric can do it all?

Weight is coming down a lot with these, and a lack of heavy engine requirements means you can get away with batts a lot heavier than petrol anyway. And as for fire risk, you do realise you're comparing it against petrol right? :laugh:

[BuzzardNZ]

And as for fire risk, you do realise you're comparing it against petrol right? :laugh:

True, but throw in a dodgy Shorai ( or some such batt ) and that's where things might get interesting/painful

[bogan]

True, but throw in a dodgy Shorai ( or some such batt ) and that's where things might get interesting/painful

Well I'm no expert, but I don't think you need a starter batt with an EV...

[BuzzardNZ]

Well I'm no expert, but I don't think you need a starter batt with an EV...

I was actually referring to the lithium batt / petrol combination.

[SPman]

....now you just have dry years in the South and dark cold nights in the North! :eek:
Seems fair enough to me!

[Naki Rat]

Well I'm no expert, but I don't think you need a starter batt with an EV...The LEAF has a 12V battery to run the instruments, lights and such like but this is totally separate from the 24kWh 330V DC Li-Ion battery that moves us down the road. So yes an EV no more needs a 'starter battery' than your Li-Ion Hitachi drill does.

[buggerit]

Well they used to keep a big pile of coal up in Huntly that was the equivalent of a full lake for burning when we had dry years in the South! :sunny:

Greenies (Under Helen Clark) wouldn't let them burn that so they sold it off overseas, now you just have dry years in the South and dark cold nights in the North! :eek:

There are massive stockpiles out near the conveyer head, just grassed over.

[bogan]

I was actually referring to the lithium batt / petrol combination.

Ah, carry on then :bleh:


The LEAF has a 12V battery to run the instruments, lights and such like but this is totally separate from the 24kWh 330V DC Li-Ion battery that moves us down the road. So yes an EV no more needs a 'starter battery' than your Li-Ion Hitachi drill does.

Yeh but nissan's are like the kawasakis of cars :whistle:

[Naki Rat]

Yeh but nissan's are like the kawasakis of cars :whistle:
Yeah but baby steps for now and eventually maybe a Tesla, the 'Lightning' of cars :cool:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nztLjEs_2Kw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Yeah but baby steps for now and eventually maybe a Tesla, the 'Lightning' of cars :cool:

Impressive power but for ordinary bike (dual-sport?) would need some form of traction control or she would be too bloody much to handle! :shit: Very very impressed!

[Naki Rat]

Impressive power but for ordinary bike (dual-sport?) would need some form of traction control or she would be too bloody much to handle! :shit: Very very impressed!

Bike or car, with electric drive there are no gears, max. torque from zero kmh and very little 'engine' noise. Takes a little getting used to :weird:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8K6oOVET6fQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is worth a look, and Monster Tajima is also one of the guests at Evolocity (http://evolocity.co.nz/news/) in Christchurch later this month. 670hp and he must have one hell of a battery to drive that hard for just under 10 minutes.

[R650R]

Nah that's just halfassery, why have both an electric system and a petrol one when a pure electric can do it all?

Weight is coming down a lot with these, and a lack of heavy engine requirements means you can get away with batts a lot heavier than petrol anyway. And as for fire risk, you do realise you're comparing it against petrol right? :laugh:

We will still need a variety of plastic and chemical products in our lives, many needed raw base materials sourced from refined crude oil. So we will still be extracting oil and will be silly not to burn the petrol part in a useful way.

As for fire risk, petrol needs an ignition source and for the most part is still well contained in a safe manner after a collision.

Batteries however already preheated from heavy use are primed to self combust if the right shockloading is applied. The problem is this may not occur til sometime after wards when least expected.
Just imagine high siding your electric bike and the marshals saying right that's your days fun over that thing might burn up...

We've already seen it with apple devices which are mostly highly regarded in reliability having some units batteries catch fire by themselves.

[oldrider]

Bike or car, with electric drive there are no gears, max. torque from zero kmh and very little 'engine' noise. Takes a little getting used to :weird:


This is worth a look, and Monster Tajima is also one of the guests at Evolocity (http://evolocity.co.nz/news/) in Christchurch later this month. 670hp and he must have one hell of a battery to drive that hard for just under 10 minutes.

Wow!

I wonder what volt drop and current increase takes place as he keeps the load on as hard as he can (within his driving capability) and there is no re-charge capacity!

[bogan]

We will still need a variety of plastic and chemical products in our lives, many needed raw base materials sourced from refined crude oil. So we will still be extracting oil and will be silly not to burn the petrol part in a useful way.

As for fire risk, petrol needs an ignition source and for the most part is still well contained in a safe manner after a collision.

Batteries however already preheated from heavy use are primed to self combust if the right shockloading is applied. The problem is this may not occur til sometime after wards when least expected.
Just imagine high siding your electric bike and the marshals saying right that's your days fun over that thing might burn up...

We've already seen it with apple devices which are mostly highly regarded in reliability having some units batteries catch fire by themselves.

Fixed power plants providing energy for electrics is a far more efficient way to burn it.

Different chemistries behave in different ways, some are susceptible to those things, but many of the ones developed for ev usage are not.

[Naki Rat]

Wow!

I wonder what volt drop and current increase takes place as he keeps the load on as hard as he can (within his driving capability) and there is no re-charge capacity!Typically the voltage remains stable throughout the battery discharge the same as you experience with Li-Ion battery power tools but you are right in that there will be limited regenerative braking on a run like that. The lack of 'engine braking' also demands that EVs have better brake spec's than ICE vehicles. A few scant details about Monster's EV here (http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/09/monster-tajima-pikes-peak-e-runner/) but with even the weight of the specially built wheels being secret it gives an indication of the degree of competition in the research being done by EV developers.

This article (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-09/colorado-racecourse-electric-cars-are-new-performance-vehicles) gives some good info but still lacking battery spec's other than to say that battery performance vs. weight is the primary limiting factor in EV vehicle performance, (and that applies from the LEAF to Monster's beast!).