Prepare to be grumpy - Auckland toll plan

[The End]

Prepare yourselves, the grumpy ones are coming:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11349967


http://i.imgur.com/51coGop.jpg

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am all in favour of it. building motorways does not cure traffic congestion. It just ensures that you ahve more motorways clogged with cars.

I went to a really interesting lecture last year about public transport from a Professor at Harvard [Dr Edward Glaeser] who was out here. Boiled down, his advice was: If you build more motorways you get more traffic. If you want less traffic institute user pays. Example: Shanghai. Restricted number of number plates issued every year, plus user pays tolls = less traffic. Also he was not a fan of light rail: reckoned the same outcomes could be achieved with buses but with less capital infrastructure and thus cost. (the idea being you have roads already, you dont need to acquire greenfields then build rail lines and stations etc.

It was interesting, thought provoking, relevant, and will be ignored.

They usually put the lectures up on line: I will see if I can find it.


http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/rss/news/?feed=news&articleId=911


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Mvz-Mg2_A&list=PL1D0DE06F56864BA4&index=4

really really interesting lecture. Well worth an hour of your time.

[R650R]

The problem is not so much the toll but the technology they will need to implement it.
Auckland motorway already has too many entry points spaced closely together so traditional toll booths wont work.
So what will be required is electronic tags or prepay/postpay online and ANPR cameras like the northern bypass thingy.

But if you live in Auckland your probably higher paid than the rest of country for same job and already happy to pay ridiculous rental and housing prices so whats an extra $20 a week on tolls.

[R650R]

I am all in favour of it. building motorways does not cure traffic congestion. It just ensures that you ahve more motorways clogged with cars.
It was interesting, thought provoking, relevant, and will be ignored.

http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/rss/news/?feed=news&articleId=911

But we are decades away from completing or even contemplating and decent public transport infrastructure in NZ. Then there is the peculiarities of Aucklands layout and having major state highway passing through the middle.
A nice thought but our little country cant afford such lavish grand ideas, we can barley afford the upkeep of what we have already.

[HenryDorsetCase]

But we are decades away from completing or even contemplating and decent public transport infrastructure in NZ. Then there is the peculiarities of Aucklands layout and having major state highway passing through the middle.
A nice thought but our little country cant afford such lavish grand ideas, we can barley afford the upkeep of what we have already.

Well, they seem to be spending up large up there already. They have that massive fuckoff tunnel digger machine and whatnot, plus last time we were there the new Newmarket flyover thing. (I think it was Newmarket: near Technical Books on the Grate South Road).

The point is that if you manage what you have, charge real costs, you dont need to spend huge amounts of new money. surely no one would disagree that the current system is unsustainable in the long term?

[buggerit]

If they were serious about reducing congestion they would have free tolls for motorbikes and free parking.
By the way, how long till they use the system to ticket u for wof ,rego ,speed between entry and exit point infringements?

[R650R]

Well, they seem to be spending up large up there already. They have that massive fuckoff tunnel digger machine and whatnot, plus last time we were there the new Newmarket flyover thing. (I think it was Newmarket: near Technical Books on the Grate South Road).

The point is that if you manage what you have, charge real costs, you dont need to spend huge amounts of new money. surely no one would disagree that the current system is unsustainable in the long term?

Yes that's pocket money compared to what would be needed to implement a decent rail network like London tube system from scratch, an above ground system would require an untenable public works land grab of giant proportions.
Depends on what your version of sustainable is though. Really it seems to be working at the moment, Aucklands traffic issues are way less bad than other big cities around the world and kiwis love their cars.
What I'd like to know from the lovers of electric cars and buses etc is where the hell is all the juice going to come from, we're already having brownout issues at times and major strain on electric network. Just imagine 3 million people plugging in their prius at 5pm. People think NZ electric is clean but only about 63% is from renewable water/wind source, the rest is from coal and gas.

[FJRider]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

[blue rider]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea. :woohoo:

use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.

[swbarnett]

Isn't that just fucken typical. It seems to be a national pasttime for those south of the Bombays to berate Aucklanders.

I agree with the point of build more roads, get more traffic.

What pisses me of in the extreme is how we as a nation seem to have the idea that roads/rail etc. (along with other civil projects) MUST be done. What a load of utter bullshit. The solution is blindingly simple. If Auckland (or any city) doesn't have the money for a rail link or another harbour crossing (for example) then just don't fucken build them.

We (even Aucklanders) are not bottomless pits. I, for one, have had bugger all pay increases in the past decade. In dollar terms power I'm on about 90% of what I was 10 years ago. Adjust that for the increased cost of living in that decade and that figure is a damn sight lower. A motorway toll is just another bite into a semi-fixed amount. I will not be getting an increase to cover it, that's for damn sure.

And on top of all this there is the issue of this probably being just another excuse to have more surveillance.

[R650R]

I see our talking points media showed no bias again, NOT. on one saying motorists don't pay for the priveledge blah blah.......
We already pay substantial taxes through a variety of means, how the govt spends it is a politicl decision.
Just another political distraction. 12 Billion over 10 years isn't much, especially with the jobs it will create. People forget we already blow 250 million a week on welfare in NZ

[swbarnett]

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea. :woohoo:

use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.
The problem is that a motorway is a public good. Even the old granny that never leaves the house benifits from their existance.

Public goods, by definition, should be funcded by the public - not just the driving public.

I am all for user pays. Just make damn sure you understand fully who the user really is. In this case it is not just drivers.

[R650R]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

While I've no problem with the tolls, do you realise how much of what you eat, need, buy is made or imported via Auckland? Any rise in transport costs or inefficiencies gets passed on to the entire nation through higher goods prices.

[FJRider]

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea. :woohoo:

why not ... sounds fair to me ... :yes:


use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

Who cares ... Europe is a LONG way from Paradise ... :laugh:


I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.

Ummmm ... it's NOT the (central) Government that's going to get the money ... the (Auckland/local) city council(s) will.

[mashman]

Old solutions to old problems with an absolutely inevitable outcome.

Find the traffic bottlenecks and build top notch business facilities 10 miles in the opposite direction to balance out the flows of traffic. No need for new roads then.

[AllanB]

Point the tunnel digger straight down - strike oil - money problem solved.

[swbarnett]

Old solutions to old problems with an absolutely inevitable outcome.

Find the traffic bottlenecks and build top notch business facilities 10 miles in the opposite direction to balance out the flows of traffic. No need for new roads then.
Exactly.

Auckland's traffic problems (what little there are) stem largely from the fact that we have only one CBD.

[FJRider]

While I've no problem with the tolls, do you realise how much of what you eat, need, buy is made or imported via Auckland? Any rise in transport costs or inefficiencies gets passed on to the entire nation through higher goods prices.

I thank the entire nation for their support/help then .. :innocent:

[swbarnett]

Point the tunnel digger straight down - strike oil - money problem solved.
If only. Given that Auckland is sitting on a caldera you're more likely to strike magma.

[mashman]

Exactly.

Auckland's traffic problems (what little there are) stem largely from the fact that we have only one CBD.

Sprinkle a little bit of, useless politicians who only understand the notion of centralisation on the top, and you're bang on. Bitterly disappointing and I feel your pain even though, as yet, I ain't getting hammered for toll's doon here. Having said that we're getting nice new roads to shift the same volume of traffic more quickly to new bottlenecks, right before they hit the old bottlenecks. The opposite side of SH1 is barren during rush hour (oxymoron much) traffic.

[Swoop]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???
Two points. Auckland has already paid for these roads, Auckland has been paying for the rest of the countries roads also.

Looney Len Brown is a cock. (ok, point #3 established as well).


The solution is simple. Simply finish off those roads being built and then not spend a cent on new stuff. All funding to be used on bus and public transport from thereon.
I laughed heartily this morning while watching traffic at a standstill on the "motoring-way" whilst thunder roared and rain fell.

Lowering the price of bus fares is sensible as well. Attract people out of their cars and onto busses. The cost of parking a car in Auckland is astronomical as well & should provide added incentive.

There are two issues that should be concerning Auckland council. #1: an integrated, user-friendly bus service throughout the city. #2: Establishing (because it hasn't been done yet!) a simple system of collecting fares on the trains (none of this swipe-on swipe-off crap).

[Madness]

Auckland Council is fucked. Lenny would have done us all a favour if Bevan had given the cunt AIDS.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11324634

[buggerit]

Two points. Auckland has already paid for these roads, Auckland has been paying for the rest of the countries roads also.

Looney Len Brown is a cock. (ok, point #3 established as well).


The solution is simple. Simply finish off those roads being built and then not spend a cent on new stuff. All funding to be used on bus and public transport from thereon.
I laughed heartily this morning while watching traffic at a standstill on the "motoring-way" whilst thunder roared and rain fell.

Lowering the price of bus fares is sensible as well. Attract people out of their cars and onto busses. The cost of parking a car in Auckland is astronomical as well & should provide added incentive.

There are two issues that should be concerning Auckland council. #1: an integrated, user-friendly bus service throughout the city. #2: Establishing (because it hasn't been done yet!) a simple system of collecting fares on the trains (none of this swipe-on swipe-off crap).

Make public transport free for a couple of years and get people in the habit, and free tolls and parking for motorbikes

[FJRider]

Two points. Auckland has already paid for these roads,

With a little help from the tax payer. ie: US ... :argh:


Auckland has been paying for the rest of the countries roads also.

Actually ... the other way round. AND ...There's a few roads down my way that "Need work" ... your contribution will be happily accepted .. :innocent:


Looney Len Brown is a cock. (ok, point #3 established as well).

No need to bring up known facts ... :no:


The solution is simple. Simply finish off those roads being built and then not spend a cent on new stuff. All funding to be used on bus and public transport from thereon.

I hereby declare ... AUCKLAND ... is finished. (another known fact) :beer:


I laughed heartily this morning while watching traffic at a standstill on the "motoring-way" whilst thunder roared and rain fell.

Had I'd been there to see it too (thank god I wasn't) ... I would have too .... :yes:


Lowering the price of bus fares is sensible as well. Attract people out of their cars and onto busses. The cost of parking a car in Auckland is astronomical as well & should provide added incentive.

Sensible ... and .. attract people (Aucklanders) in the SAME sentence ... :killingme


There are two issues that should be concerning Auckland council. #1: an integrated, user-friendly bus service throughout the city.

They're Aucklander's ... not (usually) friendly at the best of times ... :laugh:

You don't spend $80,000 on a new Merc" ... and then take the bus. :whistle:


#2: Establishing (because it hasn't been done yet!) a simple system of collecting fares on the trains (none of this swipe-on swipe-off crap).

Why not just pay with money ... ?? Has THAT not been tried before .. ?? :scratch:

[R650R]

If road transport becomes too expensive due to tolls maybe rail or sea freight may become more economic.

Typical greenies type argument, trouble is freight still needs to get from factory to port or railhead and the same with raw materials and imports other way.
All that would I is make our economy uncompetitive and plunge us to third world status when we are already a long way from export markets.
As per my original posts you'll just being increasing the costs for everyone in the country.

The one thing that could reduce congestion is for the govt to mandate staggered work start times, its crazy all the lemmings driving to work at same times every day and wondering why we have congestion.

[R650R]

Auckland Council is fucked. Lenny would have done us all a favour if Bevan had given the cunt AIDS.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11324634

But that would have been a work related injury as he was rooting on council time. Treatment costs would cripple ACC and bike rego would go up again! :)

[Hoon]

I'm all for it. Tax people off the road I say. Traffic congestion is mainly due to the number of single occupancy vehicles on the road heading to work/school. Once you make it less attractive not only do you see a shift towards public transport and car pooling, but you also generate a bit of income. If people want the right to drive their 4/5 seater car all by themselves to work each day then they can pay for that privilege. I'll be one of them. If I can save 15-30 mins travel time that's worth $5 to me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

a simple system of collecting fares on the trains (none of this swipe-on swipe-off crap).

that system works well in Wellington and fairly well in Melbourne. there was some political clusterfuck about it in Orkers I recall.

[Voltaire]

I am all in favour of it. building motorways does not cure traffic congestion. It just ensures that you ahve more motorways clogged with cars.

I went to a really interesting lecture last year about public transport from a Professor at Harvard [Dr Edward Glaeser] who was out here. Boiled down, his advice was: If you build more motorways you get more traffic. If you want less traffic institute user pays. Example: Shanghai. Restricted number of number plates issued every year, plus user pays tolls = less traffic. Also he was not a fan of light rail: reckoned the same outcomes could be achieved with buses but with less capital infrastructure and thus cost. (the idea being you have roads already, you dont need to acquire greenfields then build rail lines and stations etc.

It was interesting, thought provoking, relevant, and will be ignored.

They usually put the lectures up on line: I will see if I can find it.


http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/rss/news/?feed=news&articleId=911


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Mvz-Mg2_A&list=PL1D0DE06F56864BA4&index=4

really really interesting lecture. Well worth an hour of your time.

Driving down the Southern Motorway on my 15 minute commute to work you can see most vehicles are single occupant.

The Council promised 1st world public transport back in the 80's when they agreed to chop up the 1/4 acre sections for more infill housing.

That went well.......now we have more population and cars.

Whats with the CBD? why do we all need to go there? I work for a multinational and its in Highbrook, all I can see from my window is parks

and trees, I'd be reluctant to work in the city again.

Extending the Northern Bus route idea over the whole motorway network would be the cheapest idea, loose one lane to the buses.

Motorcycles are not really much of an option for most people.

[mashman]

Extending the Northern Bus route idea over the whole motorway network would be the cheapest idea, loose one lane to the buses.

Let them use the service lane in rush hour and shoot any fucker that uses it that ain't on a bus. Win win win win really.

[MisterD]

I'll have time to listen to Len when his "office" is reduced from a platoon of spin doctors to a single PA and his salary is halved.

We do not need to spend half the fucking money the council spends now. Example: since Len has been in there have been on-going works to replace perfectly serviceable concrete kerb stones with fancy schmancy stone ones. We do not need to spend the money on Len's self-agrandising legacy boondoggle aka the City Rail Loop.

All we need to do is spend a few dollars on school buses to get the school run traffic of the road and it'll be like holiday time every day.

[R650R]

Driving down the Southern Motorway on my 15 minute commute to work you can see most vehicles are single occupant.


Given how strangers relate to each other here, plus all the other work colleagues that many loathe, cant talk to etc who really wants to or would car pool.
Especially in the age of contagious disease outbreaks, judging of other peoples driving (people used to mind their own business), workplace sexual harassment cases etc...
Sharing your car could suddenly make your life more complicated and really how many of your workmates could you truly rely on to make it successful on daily basis?

The only real option is LOTS of buses and trains but NZ cant afford it. And with all that petrol tax money gone they will have to raise income tax to cover it, the roads will still need roughly the same amount of maintainance.
So effectively the cost of getting to work will be the same but stuck with people you don't like.
What I have seen work is the park and ride system where you park on outskirts of city and bus in to centre with security gaurds patrolling car park. Again though there is the cost of acquiring the required amount of land.

[Swoop]

that system works well in Wellington and fairly well in Melbourne. there was some political clusterfuck about it in Orkers I recall.
It came from having two different types of public-transport cards and two systems that (of course) wouldn't be compatible with each other.:thud:


All we need to do is spend a few dollars on school buses to get the school run traffic of the road and it'll be like holiday time every day.
A campaign from council and backed up by schools, to get kids walking or cycling to school. Any parent who drives their kid to school gets made to RUN around the playground 10 times with their kid/s.
Nett gain: Less traffic on the roads, healthier kids, chubby-mummies getting fitter.


Actually ... the other way round. AND ...There's a few roads down my way that "Need work" ... your contribution will be happily accepted .. :innocent:
You might have noticed that Auckland propped up the rest of the countries roads for several decades while nothing was being built around NZ's only city.


Why not just pay with money ... ?? Has THAT not been tried before .. ?? :scratch:
An interesting point all by itself.
I had a good chat with a Newmarket shopkeeper last week. He gets pissed off with tossers going into his shop and "demanding" change for the parking machines, while waving good-sized denomination notes.
An Asian customer stated that if anyone tried that in Singapore or Hong Kong the shopkeeper would always charge a commission for that transaction.

[HenryDorsetCase]

imagine the zombie apocalypse and you are stuck in a car, carpooling with people you hate, and ONE of them might be infected.

I am pitching the shit out of that as an idea to Peter Jackson right now.

the contagious disease thing is funny: because when you get to your work all the other fuckers in the OTHER car pools gather there and infect EVERYONE via the air conditioning and over the top of their little office cubicles. fuck everything about that.

[Voltaire]

imagine the zombie apocalypse and you are stuck in a car, carpooling with people you hate, and ONE of them might be infected.

I am pitching the shit out of that as an idea to Peter Jackson right now.

the contagious disease thing is funny: because when you get to your work all the other fuckers in the OTHER car pools gather there and infect EVERYONE via the air conditioning and over the top of their little office cubicles. fuck everything about that.

C'mon its either improve public transport or finance Peter Jackson movies....can't do both ( or either)
Ready for Zombies, got antiseptic wipes and a face mask.

[TheDemonLord]

C'mon its either improve public transport or finance Peter Jackson movies....can't do both ( or either)
Ready for Zombies, got antiseptic wipes and a face mask.

Well, I have a Bike and I want to see the Silmarillion made into a movie so.....

[Voltaire]

http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/PJ.jpg

" yes I did have a shave but then got on the Southern Motorway...."

[Big Dog]

Decentralise business. Job done.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[buggerit]

Stick the Beehive in Otara<_< Job DONE

[Big Dave]

By the way, how long till they use the system to ticket u for wof ,rego ,speed between entry and exit point infringements?

It started in Aus 4 years ago.

Parts of the Pacific and New Engalnd Highways have point to point cameras now too.

I would pay more for less conjestion on Alkl motorways. $2 meh. The trouble is when it gets like Brisbane. It can cost over $30 in tolls to cross the city and back via the freeways here.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Decentralise business. Job done.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

oftentimes you dont even need to do that. I can be (and often am) very productive indeed sitting at my computer, at home, working. Once we get a couple of other issues sorted with systems and processes I can be literally as efficient. I wont actually need to go into work except for meetings. Hell, I wont even need to put pants on* unless I have to go meet someone.

*You guessed it, I have a part time gig as a cam girl.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It started in Aus 4 years ago.

Parts of the Pacific and New Engalnd Highways have point to point cameras now too.

I would pay more for less conjestion on Alkl motorways. $2 meh. The trouble is when it gets like Brisbane. It can cost over $30 in tolls to cross the city and back via the freeways here.

Trade Practices Act: they aren't "free" ways at all if it costs $30 to use them....

[Big Dave]

Trade Practices Act: they aren't "free" ways at all if it costs $30 to use them....

My residual New Zealundish. The are indeed designated 'Motorways'

Tolls are $4.50 for a car - less for a bike.

But there are several interconnected toll roads and tunnels. Kerrrrchingggg - Kerrrrchingggg - Kerrrrchingggg - Kerrrrchingggg - Kerrrrchingggg - every time you enter one.

[Big Dog]

oftentimes you dont even need to do that. I can be (and often am) very productive indeed sitting at my computer, at home, working. Once we get a couple of other issues sorted with systems and processes I can be literally as efficient. I wont actually need to go into work except for meetings. Hell, I wont even need to put pants on* unless I have to go meet someone.

*You guessed it, I have a part time gig as a cam girl.

Same. More work per hour with less distractions. More breaks because I usually have the kids at home, but I maintain the right number of working hours.

Trouble is my boss doesn't really know what I do because he only ever hears from or about me when something goes tits up and so he likes to see a bum in my seat.

Next time I am negotiating a job working from home will be a negotiable factor.

Base wage I would work for plus x% where x is equal to the number of days in the office multiplied by 10% of the distance travelled.

E.g you want me in the office 5 days a week? Sure that'll be 5 x 4.6% (46ks to work) that will cost you 23% more.
Oh? You only need me in the office 1 day a week? Plus the occasional meeting? That will only cost you 4%.

Of. Course you word it the other way round.
123% is the salary you tell them you want. If they don't want to pay it and you don't want to travel all that way every day offer to work from home 3 days a week for 12.5% less.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Alas, with this job I needed the work more than I was willing to negotiate.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Maha]

Tolls and Polls just don't do it for me.

Sent from/the beach using wireless internet.

[Akzle]

i think aucklanders should be charged 50$ a day, whether they drive or not. if they don't pay, or are late paying, they get shot.

this money, of course, funds my hobby in rocketry, and subsidises beer, pot and hookers for the remainder of the country (the productive part).

vote akzle.

[Gremlin]

Our clients have been able to telecommute for years, hell, been doing it since dial up (although that wasn't very efficient). We even have directors and suchlike where the company provides the connection, all connected via our WAN, so it's low latency and performs well (subject to other factors obviously). They connect to their work PCs via software, so have all the tools/software/setup they'd have as if they were sitting at their desks. No data/files flows out of the network, so it's nice and safe too. We can remote into their home computers to look at issues, and they'll often work early, then go to the gym etc, then come into work later in the morning, missing the bulk of the traffic.

My boss still likes to see me in my seat though... :wacko:

As others have said, de-centralise business. Highbrook business park is just down the road, East Tamaki has a ton of businesses. Yet we still have people working in East Tamaki and commuting from the North Shore... seems crazy to me. However, that said, I can travel anywhere from Karaka to Silverdale in a day but at least I do it on a bike... :sweatdrop

[R650R]

Interesting point on talkback radio, council is talking about Tolling a motorway it doesn't own!!!

[Gremlin]

Interesting point on talkback radio, council is talking about Tolling a motorway it doesn't own!!!
I don't think that will bother them (and probably why they need government approval).

From memory, the authority allowing the motorway bus lanes doesn't actually have the authority to do so... but everyone just kinda ignores the little details...

[Voltaire]

Interesting point on talkback radio, council is talking about Tolling a motorway it doesn't own!!!

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1383797957/910/9374910.jpg

" if I don't listen to them..what else have they got .....internet forums":wari::wari:

[swbarnett]

The one thing that could reduce congestion is for the govt to mandate staggered work start times, its crazy all the lemmings driving to work at same times every day and wondering why we have congestion.
I don't know about the mandate bit but this should certainly be encouraged.

This is exactly why, even though I commute by motorcycle, I start work at 10:00 and most days don't leave before 18:00.

[swbarnett]

I'm all for it. Tax people off the road I say. Traffic congestion is mainly due to the number of single occupancy vehicles on the road heading to work/school. Once you make it less attractive not only do you see a shift towards public transport and car pooling, but you also generate a bit of income. If people want the right to drive their 4/5 seater car all by themselves to work each day then they can pay for that privilege. I'll be one of them. If I can save 15-30 mins travel time that's worth $5 to me.
All good as long as congestion killers like motorcycles are excempt (as they are in London).

[Gremlin]

This is exactly why, even though I commute by motorcycle, I start work at 10:00 and most days don't leave before 18:00.
Barely ever in the office before midday, but very rare to leave before 1900. I get stuff done prior to leaving home, and also when I'm home at night... Helps to break up the work during the day rather than a big block.

All good as long as congestion killers like motorcycles are excempt (as they are in London).
Yeah, thing is, the Northern tunnel isn't exempt for motorcycles any more, so I really doubt they are going to show this initiative. I've never used the tunnel since, as I refuse to pay the same as a car.

Then you've got the clusterfuck that is their ability (or lack thereof) to collect tolls efficiently...

[swbarnett]

Yeah, thing is, the Northern tunnel isn't exempt for motorcycles any more, so I really doubt they are going to show this initiative. I've never used the tunnel since, as I refuse to pay the same as a car.
I think you're right. The precedent has been set.

I haven't used it since then either. Could get very interesting trying to do this from Tuakau to CBD.

[Swoop]

Interesting point on talkback radio, council is talking about Tolling a motorway it doesn't own!!!
Correct. All of those "ramp lights" were installed to keep some retard's promise to free-up the motorways. This simply shifted the traffic off of the Transit owned motorway and onto the Council owned side roads.

[Big Dog]

I think you're right. The precedent has been set.

I haven't used it since then either. Could get very interesting trying to do this from Tuakau to CBD.

If it ends up the same as overseas we will end up paying per off ramp we pass so about $40 each way.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[awa355]

Interesting point on talkback radio, council is talking about Tolling a motorway it doesn't own!!!

Who collected the tolls from the harbour bridge back in the good old days? That was the only toll bridge in the world to stop charging tolls once the building costs of the bridge was paid for, so I am lead to believe.

[swbarnett]

Motorcycles are not really much of an option for most people.
According to a study done in Belgium a 10% uptake of motorcycles will reduce congestion by 40% and a 25% uptake will eliminate it entirely.

Even if the figures are optimistic motorcycles are still a very useful tool in the fight against congestion.

[Voltaire]

According to a study done in Belgium a 10% uptake of motorcycles will reduce congestion by 40% and a 25% uptake will eliminate it entirely.

Even if the figures are optimistic motorcycles are still a very useful tool in the fight against congestion.

Ah Belgium, If Auckland was like Belgium more people would cycle to work, as it has lots of cycle routes. They also have a nice network of motorways too as well as nice choccies and cakes.:niceone:
Can't say I like riding motorcycles on wet cobblestone pavers though.
Riding around Belgium in the snow brings back memories......

I suppose if 10% more people caught buses it would also hold true.

[R650R]

Correct. All of those "ramp lights" were installed to keep some retard's promise to free-up the motorways. This simply shifted the traffic off of the Transit owned motorway and onto the Council owned side roads.

I know people don't like those but they work overseas and they work in NZ. I used to use Tamaki rd on ramp and that mway section itself often and it made things heaps better.
Until we have a major evolution shift in the human brain they are the best way to ensure a reasonable merging of onramp traffic and mway traffic.

[R650R]

[[/IMG]

" if I don't listen to them..what else have they got .....internet forums":wari::wari:

LOL I'd love to hear one of the multi quoters from here try and do a talkback call....

[swbarnett]

I know people don't like those but they work overseas and they work in NZ.
I've lost track of the number of times I've seen a continuous line of traffic past those lights. The light goes green and noone moves because they can't.

Even more often I have seen them on when the motorway is almost empty. They may work in a small number of isolated cases or certain on-ramps but on the whole they only shift the problem. Yet another case of Transit caring nothing for roads that they don't manage.

[Gremlin]

They may work in a small number of isolated cases or certain on-ramps but on the whole they only shift the problem. Yet another case of Transit caring nothing for roads that they don't manage.
Typical terrible Attitude.

"Hey, the ramp lights are working brilliantly, the motorway is flowing much better!"
"Sure, but have you seen the mess it's making of the roads next to the on ramp?"
"Oh, those roads aren't our problem..."

:facepalm:

[Big Dave]

Yep. Over here they have poured billions into the SEQ motorways system. All it succeeds in doing is relocating the gridlock.

North, South and West of Brisbane the flow is similar to Auckland peak.

Today's concessions - lane splitting legalised again - and a raft of incredibly stupid laws regarding riding have been repealed - may offer some hope.

Maybe they are just be starting to realise what we all know. That motorcycles and scooters are part of a solution to urban congestion.

[Swoop]

Today's concessions - lane splitting legalised again - and a raft of incredibly stupid laws regarding riding have been repealed - may offer some hope.

Maybe they are just be starting to realise what we all know. That motorcycles and scooters are part of a solution to urban congestion.
That sound's quite interesting Dave. Could you summarise what changes have been made for us please?

[Big Dave]

That sound's quite interesting Dave. Could you summarise what changes have been made for us please?

Currently in Queensland you can be fined for:

ANY Lane splitting. Even stationary traffic.

Taking foot off the pegs for any reason - including backing into a parking spot or stretching due to tiredness.

Standing on the pegs while riding

Turning head to check traffic

Taking both hands off the handlebars - even while stationary.



Some of this utter stupidity will be repealed in February. Also Helmet standards reqiuirements.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/motorcycle-changes-lane-filtering-rules-adjusted-20141030-11el72.html

[Swoop]

Currently in Queensland you can be fined for:

Taking foot off the pegs for any reason - including backing into a parking spot or stretching due to tiredness.

Turning head to check traffic

Taking both hands off the handlebars - even while stationary.
:gob:

Good grief.

[Gremlin]

Turning head to check traffic
Ok, there was a lot in your post that made me all :crazy:

But seriously? A law that actually made you significantly less safe? :eek5:

... wow...

[Big Dave]

The more people there are - the more people there are making up stupid rules.

[unstuck]

Aussies are stupid to start with, and then they let them make some rules. :weird:

[Big Dave]

Aussies are stupid to start with, and then they let them make some rules. :weird:

Says the guy who took 3 minutes to type that line.

[unstuck]

Says the guy who took 3 minutes to type that line.

Took me that long to find the right emoticon.:2thumbsup

[Big Dave]

'And Square Dancing in a Round House.' - Sam, Yosemite - circa 1955.

[Moi]

Who collected the tolls from the harbour bridge back in the good old days? That was the only toll bridge in the world to stop charging tolls once the building costs of the bridge was paid for, so I am lead to believe.

The bridge was the responsibility of the Auckland Harbour Bridge Authority - who used Austin Gypsy vehicles as recovery vehicles at one time. At first tolls were charged both ways - 2/6 [25c] for a car which was a slightly more impressive sum of money in the early 1960s than 25c is today.[Some economist do the inflation bit and tell us what it would be today.] In later years tolls were charged only north bound and then abolished by Muldoon as an election bribe. Was it about the same time they did away with the tolls on the Lyttelton tunnel?

I liked travelling the vehicular ferries - the wait to board was tedious whereas the 'voyage' was wonderful, especially from Beaumont Street to Northcote as you passed under the bridge construction...

[Big Dog]

Typical terrible Attitude.

"Hey, the ramp lights are working brilliantly, the motorway is flowing much better!"
"Sure, but have you seen the mess it's making of the roads next to the on ramp?"
"Oh, those roads aren't on our dashboard as a metric we manage."

:facepalm:
There I fixed it for you.

[Swoop]

The bridge was the responsibility of the Auckland Harbour Bridge Authority - who used Austin Gypsy vehicles as recovery vehicles at one time. At first tolls were charged both ways - 2/6 [25c] for a car which was a slightly more impressive sum of money in the early 1960s than 25c is today.[Some economist do the inflation bit and tell us what it would be today.]
I remember 20c being the toll, which was increased in the final years (25c??) prior to the toll booths being removed.

It was suggested that keeping the toll would fund a second crossing in the future, this from the same fools who decided not to finish the spaghetti junction flyovers that stood unfinished for decades...

It was also suggested that the crime on the Nth Shore increased dramatically once the booths were gone, as those scallywags from "town" would pop over the burglarise all the good stuff those posh Norver'n munkees had.

[JimO]

im just back from Singapore, China and Hong Kong and have to say they all have fantastic rapid mass transport systems but there is also traffic congestion but they also have a massive population, NZs population would fit into a suberb of Shanghai or Bejing. From what i saw all freeways are tolled. Shanghai also has the worlds fastest train i was on it doing 430 kph they only run it full noise for a hr a day as its to expensive to run and it cost something like 8 billion for 35 kilometers but the locals dont use it much as it costs to much to ride

[Voltaire]

Currently in Queensland you can be fined for:

ANY Lane splitting. Even stationary traffic.

Taking foot off the pegs for any reason - including backing into a parking spot or stretching due to tiredness.

Standing on the pegs while riding

Turning head to check traffic

Taking both hands off the handlebars - even while stationary.



Some of this utter stupidity will be repealed in February. Also Helmet standards reqiuirements.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/motorcycle-changes-lane-filtering-rules-adjusted-20141030-11el72.html

Brisbane:
Just as it is important that motorcyclists filter at a safe speed, motorists can help improve the safety of the rider by carefully checking their mirrors and indicating before changing lanes as the traffic starts to queue."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/motorcycle-changes-lane-filtering-rules-adjusted-20141030-11el72.html#ixzz3HkREPIz6


Auckland:[QUOTE]Just as it is important that motorcyclists filter at a safe speed, motorists can help improve the safety of the rider by carefully checking their mirrors, not looking at their phone every opportunity, and not going from lane to lane in the vain hope of arriving earlier."

[Moi]

I remember 20c being the toll, which was increased in the final years (25c??) prior to the toll booths being removed.

Your comments made me do some checking - had forgotten about the rise in tolls towards the end... and the possible / probable cause of National losing the East Coast Bays by-election...

[geoffm]

The bridge was the responsibility of the Auckland Harbour Bridge Authority - who used Austin Gypsy vehicles as recovery vehicles at one time. At first tolls were charged both ways - 2/6 [25c] for a car which was a slightly more impressive sum of money in the early 1960s than 25c is today.[Some economist do the inflation bit and tell us what it would be today.] In later years tolls were charged only north bound and then abolished by Muldoon as an election bribe. Was it about the same time they did away with the tolls on the Lyttelton tunnel?

I liked travelling the vehicular ferries - the wait to board was tedious whereas the 'voyage' was wonderful, especially from Beaumont Street to Northcote as you passed under the bridge construction...

25c in 1980 is $1.22 in today's money, or $1.09 in 1981. Inflation was a bit of an issue back then. This is from the RBNZ inflation calculator http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary_policy/inflation_calculator/
Makes the $2.20 for the tunnel a bit steep

[Swoop]

It's rather pleasing to see that the cockfaced retard "mayor" brown is looking at a revolt. Fireplaces = postponed. Toy trains = revolt.

[swbarnett]

It's rather pleasing to see that the cockfaced retard "mayor" brown is looking at a revolt. Fireplaces = postponed. Toy trains = revolt.
I must've missed somethig??

What pisses me off is that I use the Auckland southern motorway daily and I have absolutely no say in it the matter as I don't live in Auckland.

[Big Dog]

I must've missed somethig??

What pisses me off is that I use the Auckland southern motorway daily and I have absolutely no say in it the matter as I don't live in Auckland.

+1. Mind you, that fact means I only contribute via road tax, RUC, gst and general tax. Oh and via all the businesses I spend money with.

Some seem to argue I I all people should be charged because I don't pay Auckland rates yet I make an average of 11 journeys per week on the southern, about 24 a year each on the southwestern, northwestern, northern and south eastern.
With the application. Of tolls
It would make a trip to Hamilton more viable.
It would also see me buying off shore more often because although I try to buy local, especially when visiting real shops, local e retail stores are usually a combination of pricier than the shop they represent, poor value, poor service, or jus plain technically inadequate.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[FJRider]

I must've missed something??

I don't live anywhere NEAR Jaffa city .. and don't miss it at all ... :innocent:


What pisses me off is that I use the Auckland southern motorway daily and I have absolutely no say in it the matter as I don't live in Auckland.

I haven't used it in over 30 years ... and have NO say in the matter either.

Having NO say in the matter ... does NOT mean having NO opinion in the matter ... ;)

[Swoop]

It would also see me buying off shore more often because although I try to buy local, especially when visiting real shops, local e retail stores are usually a combination of pricier than the shop they represent, poor value, poor service, or jus plain technically inadequate.
It doesn't matter. The bureaucrats and servants of the public are already looking at a simple tax increase to cover any perceived losses because of all the e-commerce. Sadly all the crap NZ retailers will remain crap.