Help make filtering in NZ legal - petition

[Zapf]

Please Petition to the NZ Government to legalize filtering for Motorcycles.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/introduce-safe-lane-filtering-for-motorcyclists.html

[The End]

With the recent movements in the US and Australia I say it's only a matter of time before it is legalised in one form or another.

Not like many cops have a problem with (safe) lane splitting currently anyway (minus the one down south from that other thread:facepalm:)

[FJRider]

Please Petition to the NZ Government to legalize filtering for Motorcycles.



Why ... ??? Overtaking is already legal in New Zealand. BUT ... there ARE rules.

To overtake at ANY time requires some degree of common sense to do it safely ( something often seen lacking in some ) ....

If the law enforcers perceive your overtaking actions to be dangerous ... you can (and usually will) be ticketed. No changes in any legislation will alter that.

[Reckless]

From what I read in the petition it doesn't set a speed limit for our filtering speed only the moving traffic?

"slow moving vehicles travelling in the same direction as the rider, provided they are not travelling at more than 30km/h"

Is there a filtering speed limit set in the Aussy legislation?

It does if your on the left on the shoulder

allowed to ride through stationary or slow moving traffic at speeds not greater than 30km/hr on the road shoulder

[Madness]

Is there a filtering speed limit set in the Aussy legislation?

Affirmative.


Lane splitting is a term sometimes used for riding a motorcycle at speed through moving traffic. The higher speed increases the unpredictability of motorcycle movements and so would increase the crash risk for the rider and other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists. In Queensland lane filtering at over 30km/hr will be prohibited and penalties will apply.

[Reckless]

Affirmative.

Just read the legislation Not worded very clear in the first paragraph, at first read, I took "they" to mean the surrounding traffic??
Further down it makes it clear.

So if you got caught travelling 40k over the 30k does that now mean instant loss of licence as it does with speeding?

Just sorta thinkin if the Auckland traffic is jambed up at spagetti junction dribbing along at 40K I'm often sliding from lane to lane as the traffic staggers.
There's heaps of bikes actually splitting. I tend to wait for the traffic to juggle itself for a gap to appear in the other lane.
I guess if you get stuck behind two that where side by side for to long you'd have to make sure to pass on the right of the car and left of the centre line?
So in that case would you be passing or splitting?

Just thinking when they actually put a number on the speed such as 30K Mr Wellington Gorge Hitler may start issuing tickets for dangerous riding or
take your licence on the spot?
I can also see a cop on one of the over bridges (as they do now) with a laser and one down below collecting tickets?

Its not that hard to go 70K if your excelerating into a gap?

[Madness]

So if you got caught travelling 40k over the 30k does that now mean instant loss of licence as it does with speeding?

Just sorta thinkin if the Auckland traffic is jambed up at spagetti junction dribbing along at 40K I'm often sliding from lane to lane as the traffic staggers.
There's heaps of bikes actually splitting. I tend to wait for the traffic to juggle itself for a gap to appear in the other lane.
I guess if you get stuck behind two that where side by side for to long you'd have to make sure to pass on the right of the car and left of the centre line?
So in that case would you be passing or splitting?

Just thinking when they actually put a number on the speed such as 30K Mr Wellington Gorge Hitler may start issuing tickets for dangerous riding or
take your licence on the spot?
I can also see a cop on one of the over bridges (as they do now) with a laser and one down below collecting tickets?

Its not that hard to go 70K if your excelerating into a gap?

Yeah, but at least (for some) there will be more clarity around the situation than there is currently :facepalm:

[nodrog]

Fucksakes, some people have weird hobbies.

[catharsis]

Internet forum idiots:
Impotent armchair experts since ages ago....

I wonder why similar legislation has been so successful in the UK and other parts of the world when people like the Hon. Madness have had all the answers all along. Didn't they know all they have to do is visit Kiwibiker and the solutions are clear? Silly world.

God I hope the law stays completely grey and murky so that I can ride however I want and bend the law in my direction until I cause an accident. They should get rid of speed limits and make talking on cellphones while riding compulsory.

[Madness]

Internet forum idiots:

I know, right?

Right now, if I want to overtake another vehicle it is legal for me to do so without having to cross the centre line, providing I do so on the right hand side of said vehicle but remaining inside that lane. Pretty fucking clear, innit?

With the exception of the filthy popo in Wellington on a vendetta, if you're having an issue with splitting and getting tickets I'd respectfully suggest that you're obviously doing it wrong and riding like a fuckwit. You deserve a serve.

The filthy popo in Wellington probably just got sick and tired of moaning fuckwits talking about appeals and changing the laws to suit them and decided to have a go of it. You can hardly blame him.

Those of you that think we'll (as in a collective of motorcyclists) be able to influence any new legislation relating to motorcycle speed on a public road, can I please have some of what you're smoking? You're fucking dreaming.

[catharsis]

You win the internet.

That's passing. Not filtering or splitting as described in successful foreign legislation.
Any group can influence legislation if they agree and speak.
It's a shame when impotent naysayers try to convince them otherwise. A real shame.

[Madness]

Any group can influence legislation if they agree and speak.
It's a shame when impotent naysayers try to convince them otherwise. A real shame.

Oh, like when motorcyclists tried to influence the implementation of wire rope barriers? Perhaps you mean the infamous ACC Hikoi and subsequent protests? Silly me, how could I have forgotten such monumental examples of motorcyclists collectively influencing legislation.

Maybe we should have a referendum. After the flag one, of course. What's another $26,000,000 when it's obviously such a massive issue?

By the way, you'll be pleased to know that I can maintain a healthy erection for hours, given the right stimulus. You just didn't do it for me, sweetheart.

[catharsis]

So. Much. Awesome. In. One. Person. Can't. Deny.

impotent
ˈɪmpət(ə)nt
adjective

unable to take effective action; helpless or powerless.
"he was seized with an impotent anger" "Madness is just an impotent, ignorant forum dweeb" :Oops:
synonyms: powerless, ineffective, ineffectual, inadequate, weak, useless, worthless, vain, futile, unavailing, unsuccessful, profitless, fruitless, Madness.
antonyms: powerful, effective, strong, not Madness. :Oops:

Hey guy, if you don't want the change, move on. Nothing to be gained by throwing your used tampons around about it eh?

[Madness]

Hey guy, if you don't want the change, move on. Me and the other sheep-like muppets around here will do our best to ensure that even more restrictions are placed on us, regardless of there being no real need for change. You see, it's about making me feel like I'm important, that I matter in the world. I have self-confidence issues, I wet the bed at night and I'm a general soft-cock homo.

You obviously have no concept of humor either. Sad, sad sheep.

[Katman]

Those of you that think we'll (as in a collective of motorcyclists) be able to influence any new legislation relating to motorcycle speed on a public road, can I please have some of what you're smoking? You're fucking dreaming.

Ding dong, you have just won first prize for Most Correctist Answer on the Internets.

[Voltaire]

MAG should take this up to capitalise on the success of taking up parking spaces in Ponsonby :lol:

[catharsis]

Another winner from madness.
Wow.

[Madness]

Another winner from madness.
Wow.

Bow, bitch.

[willytheekid]

Fucksakes, some people have weird hobbies.

..YOUR one to talk!!:crazy:

:moon:

:D

[Madness]

..YOUR one to talk!!:crazy:

:moon:

:D

*You're

You're welcome.

[FJRider]

That's passing. Not filtering or splitting as described in successful foreign legislation.

When you change the position of your vehicle from behind another vehicle ... to be in front of that other vehicle ... it's called overtaking.

Overtaking/passing another vehicle in your lane ... on the left side in the same lane is illegal.


Any group can influence legislation if they agree and speak.

Only worth it ... if the benefits of the change ... outweigh the benefits that already exist. Publicity on the subject may change what is now a grey area ... into a big black NO.

Be careful what you wish for ... it may happen. And with the driving skills noted in Motorway traffic ... add more "Lane splitters" and more will get hurt.


It's a shame when impotent naysayers try to convince them otherwise. A real shame.

KB logic would usually be ... "if it's legal it wont be fun anymore" ...

[Madness]

KB logic would usually be ... "if it's legal it wont be fun anymore" ...

It's not going to be a barrel of laughs at a maximum of <30km/hr and I doubt that many will get an adrenaline rush splitting at 35km/he either.

[bogan]

It's not going to be a barrel of laughs at a maximum of <30km/hr and I doubt that many will get an adrenaline rush splitting at 35km/he either.

Maybe if it is done on one wheel it will still be fun...

[Madness]

Maybe if it is done on one wheel it will still be fun...

See, that's why I love you man. Maybe we can get this clause added to the legislation, or at least added to the binding referendum (the one right after the flag one, of course)?

[FJRider]

It's not going to be a barrel of laughs at a maximum of <30km/hr and I doubt that many will get an adrenaline rush splitting at 35km/he either.

Aucklander's are easily amused and/or excited ... :facepalm:

[bogan]

See, that's why I love you man. Maybe we can get this clause added to the legislation, or at least added to the binding referendum (the one right after the flag one, of course)?

I think that one may be best left as a legal grey area, flag we totes need a subclause allowing kiwi subcultures to creative self representation.

I'll go with a silver fern tramp stamp, with a do-bro balanced on one cheek and a joint on the other, perhaps overlaid onto metallica's black album cover as background.

[BlackSheepLogic]

It's not going to be a barrel of laughs at a maximum of <30km/hr and I doubt that many will get an adrenaline rush splitting at 35km/he either.

I don't exceed 30km/hr when splitting.

[Madness]

I think that one may be best left as a legal grey area, flag we totes need a subclause allowing kiwi subcultures to creative self representation.

I'll go with a silver fern tramp stamp, with a do-bro balanced on one cheek and a joint on the other, perhaps overlaid onto metallica's black album cover as background.

A silver fern tramp stamp? How very Manawatu.


I don't exceed 30km/hr when splitting.

Congratulations. The point I was making was that most don't do it because it's illegal or it gives them a thrill.

[Big Dave]

A silver fern tramp stamp? How very Manawatu.



Congratulations. The point I was making was that most don't do it because it's illegal or it gives them a thrill.

yep. As has been pointed out on here many times the Kiwi regulations are virtually untenable.

Drivers stick to the far right of their lane - meaning you have to break the law regularly by moving into the other lane and passing on the left.

This is only marginally less stupid than the current Qld legislation that prohibits all lane splitting until February.

You're pissing in the wind trying to get anything achieved on here though.



Bike press would run with it.

Ben Wilkins - editor@kiwirider.co.nz

Paul Lance - I haven't got paul's email any more - it will be on the BRM web site.

Shane at Trader would be worth following up too.

[TheDemonLord]

I didn't sign - I commute everyday from Gulf Harbour to Penros - and sometimes I am splitting in parts at 70-80 kph, never more than 20ish kph faster than the flow of traffic.

The reason is I CBF slowing down, joining the traffic flow for the 200-300 meters where the traffic is going at 50-60 kph before it slows down again, then having to filter again.

Do we need better legislation around Filtering - yes I think we should - but setting arbitrary speed limits that IMHO make little sense in real world filtering scenarios.

we should also immediately revoke the licence of anyone who says 'oh but I don't expect bikes to be there' (if you used your mirrors correctly, you would know if a bike was there or not and wouldn't need to expect anything)

[catharsis]

Thanks Big Dave. Done.

[SNF]

I didn't sign - I commute everyday from Gulf Harbour to Penros - and sometimes I am splitting in parts at 70-80 kph, never more than 20ish kph faster than the flow of traffic.

The reason is I CBF slowing down, joining the traffic flow for the 200-300 meters where the traffic is going at 50-60 kph before it slows down again, then having to filter again.

Do we need better legislation around Filtering - yes I think we should - but setting arbitrary speed limits that IMHO make little sense in real world filtering scenarios.

we should also immediately revoke the licence of anyone who says 'oh but I don't expect bikes to be there' (if you used your mirrors correctly, you would know if a bike was there or not and wouldn't need to expect anything)

This man, he gets it. Same thing when I used to commute from west to south Auckland. Did it daily for 2 years, never once had a problem. Other bikes do it too, have split past police and never been pulled up for it. There is an element of risk. Lots of care and attention needed for this.

[James Deuce]

I like the idea and I hope Zapf succeeds, but I rather suspect that bringing the practice to prominence will simply get it outlawed.

[Big Dave]

Yeah. he gets it. A fine, eventually.

DAMHIK.

I don't think the Qld proposal is perfect either.

The bit that I do think is important is to be able to legally use the 'emergency' lane if the traffic is gridlocked.

[f2dz]

Under this proposed new law, motorcyclists holding a full license will be allowed to move between lanes of stationary or slow moving vehicles travelling in the same direction as the rider, provided they are not travelling at more than 30km/h and it is safe to do so.

So learners or people on restricted licenses aren't allowed to filter/split?

How will the 30kph speed limit be enforced? Will cop radars pick up bikes moving between traffic, or will it be another thing that cops can just guess-timate and turn into his word vs. mine but my word wins?

[Reckless]

So learners or people on restricted licenses aren't allowed to filter/split?

How will the 30kph speed limit be enforced? Will cop radars pick up bikes moving between traffic, or will it be another thing that cops can just guess-timate and turn into his word vs. mine but my word wins?


Just thinking when they actually put a number on the speed such as 30K Mr Wellington Gorge Hitler may start issuing tickets for dangerous riding or take your licence on the spot?
I can also see a cop on one of the over bridges (as they do now) with a laser and one down below collecting tickets?


No they would have to have proof but be careful out there I bet 90% of us go over 30k everytime we split if this happens plenty of over passes at Spagetti, Ellerslie, Greenlane, Nguaranga gorge for them to set a trap.
I'd guess they will put the same demerits on the excess speed as if you are speeding over the limit?
I can see this wish being not so good??

[Big Dave]

I like the idea and I hope Zapf succeeds, but I rather suspect that bringing the practice to prominence will simply get it outlawed.

I'll have a fiver on there being two bike cops hauling riders over for a chat on the ALK southern within a month.

It would be about due anyway.

The Brisbane cops were doing big business from 'early adopters' on t' M1 during the week.

[Madness]

I'll have a fiver on there being two bike cops hauling riders over for a chat on the ALK southern within a month.

It would be about due anyway.

The Brisbane cops were doing big business from 'early adopters' on t' M1 during the week.

The way links to the petition are cropping up all over bookface at the moment I'm going to guess we'll see a blitz this side of the holy-days. Oh well, time to buy a gravel bike.

[Ifsn8u]

My two cents worth.

Splitting should be allowed in traffic flow upto 70-80kmph no more. The rider should not exceed said traffic flow by more than 15kmph.

Least if it became law more cagers might be aware of us. Man som cagers are so oblivious to their surroundings, cracks me up when they have a little freak out when I go passed them.

[James Deuce]

Man som cagers are so oblivious to their surroundings, cracks me up when they have a little freak out when I go passed them.

I'm not suprised. You have no bike.

[Maha]

MAG should take this up to capitalise on the success of taking up parking spaces in Ponsonby :lol:

Taking up eight parking spaces at a time when no one is around is abuse of the word success.

[Voltaire]

Taking up eight parking spaces at a time when no one is around is abuse of the word success.

How about a mass lane split down the Southern Motorway demonstrating how safe it is.

[Maha]

How about a mass lane split down the Southern Motorway demonstrating how safe it is.

Lane split using all three lanes at a very low and safe speed.

[buggerit]

My two cents worth.

Splitting should be allowed in traffic flow upto 70-80kmph no more. The rider should not exceed said traffic flow by more than 15kmph.

Least if it became law more cagers might be aware of us. Man som cagers are so oblivious to their surroundings, cracks me up when they have a little freak out when I go passed them.

Put some clothes on,:eek5::sick: freak:lol:

[FJRider]

My two cents worth.

After reading your post ... it's overpriced ... :pinch:


Splitting should be allowed in traffic flow upto 70-80kmph no more. The rider should not exceed said traffic flow by more than 15kmph.

With no bike ... you must be able to run pretty fast .. :laugh:


Least if it became law more cagers might be aware of us. Man som cagers are so oblivious to their surroundings, cracks me up when they have a little freak out when I go passed them.

A law change wont make it safer .. and those cagers that don't like the lane splitters now .... will make no attempt to make it safer. Quite the opposite actually ... ;)

Making it legal wont change the fact that the overtaking vehicle will STILL have the responsibility to do it safely. Any contact with other vehicles will be your fault.

Perhaps ... wear your "Share the Road" T-shirt ... most people driving cars can read .. :yes:

[Madness]

A law change wont make it safer .. and those cagers that don't like the lane splitters now .... will make no attempt to make it safer. Quite the opposite actually ... ;)

Making it legal wont change the fact that the overtaking vehicle will STILL have the responsibility to do it safely. Any contact with other vehicles will be your fault.

Perhaps ... wear your "Share the Road" T-shirt ... most people driving cars can read .. :yes:

FJ, you impotent naysayer you. Stop making sense.

[thepom]

Wont work as this government is hell bent on getting two wheelers off the road !

[Ifsn8u]

I'm not suprised. You have no bike.

So that's what I am doing wrong!:brick:

[FJRider]

Wont work as this government is hell bent on getting two wheelers off the road !

We have a Government ... ????





What do they DO ... ?????? :scratch:

[MD]

I like the idea and I hope Zapf succeeds, but I rather suspect that bringing the practice to prominence will simply get it outlawed.

Yep James, I signed it but with mixed feelings too. I think a few unhappy Cops will just make our commutes more miserable over coming years under the current Code. Well to me it's more of guidelines than a Code. This petition could backfire in our faces and the Guvinmint says, holy shit, let's curb all this dangerous motorcycling activity outright.

[pritch]

Zapf is a real motorcyclist but I was pessimistic as to what the repsonse might be to his proposal. I had hoped that the discourse might have risen above the KB average.
The responses suggest though that, while modest enough, "sane" might have been setting the bar a tad high. :whistle:

[Madness]

I think you'll find that it's not Zapf's petition and he's merely another one jumping on the bandwagon of delusion.

[FJRider]

I think you'll find that it's not Zapf's petition and he's merely another one jumping on the bandwagon of delusion.

Putting mildly at that ... ;)

[Swoop]

We have a Government ... ????
Yes, we do.
We do not have an opposition though.

[GD66]

I believe they're thinking about trialling filtering in Bali...:scooter:

[Big Dog]

Given how often the negative nancies shout down those who try is it any wonder we get fucked in the ass by acc?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[caspernz]

Yep James, I signed it but with mixed feelings too. I think a few unhappy Cops will just make our commutes more miserable over coming years under the current Code. Well to me it's more of guidelines than a Code. This petition could backfire in our faces and the Guvinmint says, holy shit, let's curb all this dangerous motorcycling activity outright.

Same here, signed it with a positive frame of mind.

[Madness]

Given how often the negative nancies shout down those who try is it any wonder we get fucked in the ass by acc?

Given how those who "try" don't think before they act, it's a complete wonder that motorcycling hasn't been banned already.

[FJRider]

Given how often the negative nancies shout down those who try is it any wonder we get fucked in the ass by acc?




I very much doubt if any of the "Powers That Be" in ACC ... would advocate the legalization of lane splitting ... :yawn:

WE .. ??? speak for yourself ... :oi-grr: ...


BUT ... admit you enjoy it ... and move on ... :whistle:

[FJRider]

Same here, signed it with a positive frame of mind.

I had half a mind to sign it ... but you (and others) .. obviously had less than that ... :killingme

[Berries]

Given how often the negative nancies shout down those who try is it any wonder we get fucked in the ass by acc?
A petition might seem like trying but they are a complete and utter waste of time.

If the right person thinks whatever it is a good idea it will happen, if they don't it won't. The number of virtual scribbles on a piece of paper won't sway that decision, although granted some people will get a warm fuzzy feeling for doing their part.

[caspernz]

I had half a mind to sign it ... but you (and others) .. obviously had less than that ... :killingme

Lucky I've got just enough to scribble on KB though...:2thumbsup


A petition might seem like trying but they are a complete and utter waste of time.

If the right person thinks whatever it is a good idea it will happen, if they don't it won't. The number of virtual scribbles on a piece of paper won't sway that decision, although granted some people will get a warm fuzzy feeling for doing their part.

As long as that warm fuzzy feeling isn't me pissing myself in my sleep...all good by me :woohoo:

And anyway...positive anything is better than negative nothing.

[FJRider]

And anyway...positive anything is better than negative nothing.

On a positive note ... the legality of lane splitting will be better/different ... in WHAT way ... ???? :scratch:

[catharsis]

Actually, in our system, a petition is required to get you in front of a select committee. They won't take you seriously until you have numbers behind an issue. And a petition with 9,000 signatures DID get exactly that in QLD which got the law put through.
Politicians are looking for easy, low hanging fruit that they can get behind which will give them an excuse to get out and press the flesh.
In this case, it's a common sense law which has no negative backlash on the majority, no cost involved other than the actual passing of the legislation.. A fairly pain/risk free thing to support from a political standpoint. Which is why the politicians I've been in touch with so far have been supportive.

The community here on KB (or rather the few here who want to flash their e-peen and nay-say anything) is obviously not the right place for the main push. Internet forums are always this way. Dominated by a negative, back of the school bus crowd of know it all armchair expert cool kids. It's a shame but the way it is. The quieter intelligent kids on the bus with more important things to worry about tend not to lurk on forums 24/7 being a loud mouth. They sit at the front of the bus and get where they want to go

I hope we get this through. I believe it will make the road safer for the people who want to filter responsibly. As it has in other countries around the world.

[Madness]

At least we'll know who to blame when it all turns to shit.

[catharsis]

So you can give me a wedgie in the hallway and go play bull-rush on the netball court? Maybe a ciggy in the bikeshed after that?
Cool.

[Madness]

So you can give me a wedgie in the hallway and go play bull-rush on the netball court? Maybe a ciggy in the bikeshed after that?
Cool.

Nah. I'll just be laughing at you and all the other fuckwits that signed a petition that ultimately resulted in further limits and restrictions being placed on where and how we ride our motorcycles. I'll also laugh at the dickheads that choose to ride (legally at 30km/hr) on the hard shoulder amongst all the broken glass and other debris like a fucking winner.

[rickstv]

What is the law around filtering and lane splitting in Victoria?

The NZ Police seem to be on the same page as Victorian road traffic police and regularly swap ideas.

Rick.

[catharsis]

I'll also laugh at the dickheads that choose to ride (legally at 30km/hr) on the hard shoulder amongst all the broken glass and other debris like a fucking winner.
I ride on the shoulder on the port and Northcote onramps daily and they’re perfectly clean. Also the shoulder/bus lane between Onewa and Esmonde which is just as clean as any other lane. You must live in a crap spot mate, sorry :(

[SteveJoll]

Done. We all filter (or split ... ) Good luck.

[Madness]

I ride on the shoulder on the port and Northcote onramps daily and they’re perfectly clean. Also the shoulder/bus lane between Onewa and Esmonde which is just as clean as any other lane. You must live in a crap spot mate, sorry :(

You make a lot of assumptions and I'm certainly not your mate.

[catharsis]

You make a great point mate. Definitely food for thought. Well done again.

[Madness]

You make a great point mate. Definitely food for thought. Well done again.

Fuck you're thick. Probably a ginga to boot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pkbawBBj6_0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[catharsis]

Keep going mate. You're showing your classy eloquence. Way to represent the riding community.

[Big Dave]

Riding community?

More like a cat herd.

[buggerit]

Actually, in our system, a petition is required to get you in front of a select committee. They won't take you seriously until you have numbers behind an issue. And a petition with 9,000 signatures DID get exactly that in QLD which got the law put through.
Politicians are looking for easy, low hanging fruit that they can get behind which will give them an excuse to get out and press the flesh.
In this case, it's a common sense law which has no negative backlash on the majority, no cost involved other than the actual passing of the legislation.. A fairly pain/risk free thing to support from a political standpoint. Which is why the politicians I've been in touch with so far have been supportive.

The community here on KB (or rather the few here who want to flash their e-peen and nay-say anything) is obviously not the right place for the main push. Internet forums are always this way. Dominated by a negative, back of the school bus crowd of know it all armchair expert cool kids. It's a shame but the way it is. The quieter intelligent kids on the bus with more important things to worry about tend not to lurk on forums 24/7 being a loud mouth. They sit at the front of the bus and get where they want to go

I hope we get this through. I believe it will make the road safer for the people who want to filter responsibly. As it has in other countries around the world.
Im quite familar wirh politicians looking for low hanging fruit, like screwing us for acc, fucking good boot to the friut that was.
So what do think would score them more brownie points, coming down on those dangerous motorcyclists that scoot by
the majority voters that are stuck in cars or making it easier for the governments hated minority road user?

[catharsis]

Well since the proposed law makes the road safer for all road users and provides clear legal standing to punish both bikes and cars abusing the law I’d say it’s pretty neutral. Hey, we’ll see how it goes when the political lobbying stage gets underway down the line.
Like I’ve said, after only a few emails to a small handful of politicians in the transport sector of govt. I’ve already had some really positive support. So, I’ll just keep working and see how it goes :)

[The Reibz]

Who cares if its illegal, we all still do it anyway. No Fucks given.
Having no rego is allegedly illegal. Yet I rode over 30,000km without one before I thought it "might" be a good idea to get my shit back up to the revenue gathers specs.
Stickers are surposed to add horse power, and for a sticker that costs nearly 600 bucks the performance increase is nothing but shocking.

Legislation won't solve shit. NZer's have a general distaste for the biker population as a hole.
I find it hilarious that cunts think a petition or parking up in Auckland to try and force a referendum is going to work. Good luck with that.

[catharsis]

I wonder why the biker population is looked at as you say?
Reading this forum I can't think of a single reason.....

[Swoop]

Who cares if its illegal, we all still do it anyway. No Fucks given.
Having no rego is allegedly illegal. Yet I rode over 30,000km without one before I thought it "might" be a good idea to get my shit back up to the revenue gathers specs.
Stickers are surposed to add horse power, and for a sticker that costs nearly 600 bucks the performance increase is nothing but shocking.
Possibly the best post in this entire thread!:first:

[TheDemonLord]

I wonder why the biker population is looked at as you say?
Reading this forum I can't think of a single reason.....

Well our love affair with American style Patched Motorcycle Clubs and the proliferation of TV shows like Sons of Anarchy would be the first, the second would be the perception of the 30 something male Super Bike rider who rides 'recklessly' at 'dangerous speeds' on the public road, and the third would be the BAB in his 50s with the Harley that he's always wanted who has just twatted himself on the first corner he came up to.

Mix in a little 'motorbikes aren't safe', a pinch of jealousy by those stuck in traffic/want a bike but their wife won't let them have one and I would say that is the reason.

What you read on the forum is the reaction of Motorcyclists to the attitudes of the nation as a whole and not necessarily the cause of it.

Afterall - when does the average car driver interact with a motorcylcist? I can assure you, it isn't on the KB forums - its when they have just been passed by 20 patched Head Hunters members and they felt intimidated or its when they weren't paying attention on the open road and got a fright when a a GSX1000R overtook them doing 120 kph in 2nd.

To re-iterate my position - I commend the effort to get Filtering solidified in Legislation, however the Arbitrary speed limits are pointless, have little place in real world filtering, are going to give Mr. Plod another excuse to reach for his Radar gun in order to drum up some road taxes - but worst of all:

It isn't going to change the attitude of the Car drivers that we share the roads with - Filtering will carry the same risk(s) that it currently does, the only difference is that at the posthumous court hearing, I will be in the right, the Car driver will get a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket and thanks to ACC, my Grieving widow won't be able to sue the pants off the fuckwit who couldn't be bothered to check their mirrors.

Without any serious consequences impacting the Driver, there will be no impetus to change/improve ones driving - thus the status quo will remain

[catharsis]

Oh, I simply meant, if these louts behave in public as they do on here then it's no wonder the general public see bikers as low brow knuckle dragging plebs :)
As I'm sure the company they keep would not mix with people who vote or... think, I'm not too worried about their level of support for the cause ;)

[buggerit]

Oh, I simply meant, if these louts behave in public as they do on here then it's no wonder the general public see bikers as low brow knuckle dragging plebs :)
As I'm sure the company they keep would not mix with people who vote or... think, I'm not too worried about their level of support for the cause ;)

If you didnt come across as a person who thinks they are morally and intellectually superior you may cope better with others
differing points of view.

[catharsis]

Kinda hard for a literate human not to feel superior to be honest. Reading some of these posts is like reading graffiti in a high school toilet block. Anyway, that's enough trolling for me today. Probably shouldn't have taken the bait so much, oh well, as you were xxoo

[buggerit]

Kinda hard for a literate human not to feel superior to be honest. Reading some of these posts is like reading graffiti in a high school toilet block. Anyway, that's enough trolling for me today, as you were xxoo


:rolleyes::lol::killingme:bye:
...............

[James Deuce]

Kinda hard for a literate human not to feel superior to be honest. Reading some of these posts is like reading graffiti in a high school toilet block. Anyway, that's enough trolling for me today. Probably shouldn't have taken the bait so much, oh well, as you were xxoo

Stop taking motorcycle forums so seriously.

Stop thinking the worst of people who don't agree with you. Most of them have better reasons than you, including being lied to directly by Government ministers, for their nihilistic view of any potential inferface with "the authorities".

Shut up and ride your bike.

Most of all: Stop being a dick. You're starting to remind me of myself.

[FJRider]

Kinda hard for a literate human not to feel superior to be honest.

Do you know of one .. ??? :whistle:

[catharsis]

I can't disagree with you there, James. I have acted like a dick in some of my replies. I find it hard to resist sometimes though I know I should. I must apologise. I don't know why it grinds my gears, it really shouldn't heh live and let live.

[FJRider]

Without any serious consequences impacting the Driver, there will be no impetus to change/improve ones driving - thus the status quo will remain

The full post was well said (in MY opinion)

BUT ...

That's the punch line right there ...

[Big Dog]

Riding community?

More like a cat herd.

We may be a bunch of sad little pussies but...., dammit. Where did my point go?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

You'd be surprised how often I get asked questions like "what was it like when you horn patched in?"
"No seriously whose patch do you ride for / under?"
" you know sons of anarchy, is that what it is really like?"


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dave]

All I would like is to be able to lane split/filter without getting fined when I visit NZ.

Under the current legislation a penalty is always a possibility because the existing regulations make it impossible to do so completely legally.

That needs fixing.

As for following Victorian models as mentioned earlier, a cautionary tale:

http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/phillip-island-gp-im-done/

[Drew]

Oh yeah. Lets make it legal for the woefully untrained spastics who currently ride bikes, to lane split. Good idea:scratch:

[Big Dave]

Oh yeah. Lets make it legal for the woefully untrained spastics who currently ride bikes, to lane split. Good idea:scratch:

It already is - for a short distance.

[Drew]

It already is - for a short distance.

I always thought it was legit if traffic was slower than 20kph, or the bike never went to the right of the centre line.

[Big Dave]

More to it than that. Somebody must have a ling to the rulez.

[Drew]

More to it than that. Somebody must have a ling to the rulez.

No doubt. Still reckon bikers petitioning for bikers to have compulsory training and assessment is the only one I'd ever sign my name to.

[Madness]

Keep going mate. You're showing your classy eloquence. Way to represent the riding community.

Acually, Batman, I don't come on here pretending to represent the "riding community". I don't like holding hands or singing Kum Bay Ya around an open camp fire either. My comments on here represent my own opinion. Don't like it? Suck my cock. While you're at it please stop claiming to speak for the good of the "riding community" because you're clearly not. You will be held responsible when it turns to shit, don't forget that.

[catharsis]

You will not find a link to NZ law regarding filtering/splitting. Full stop.
People will provide links regarding passing or overtaking that can loosely be applied to filtering/splitting but that's a half measure and in no way clear when it comes to enforcement.
You will have to look overseas to find laws specific to filtering/splitting. Available in Europe, USA or more applicably Australia, from which this proposed change is directly based.

[FJRider]

More to it than that. Somebody must have a ling to the rulez.

In New Zealand we call it a LINK ... :innocent:

here it is ...

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/assets/Uploads/PDFs/ACC7009-RIDEFOREVER-Infosheet-FA.pdf

[catharsis]

Acually, Batman, I don't come on here pretending to represent the "riding community". I don't like holding hands or singing Kum Bay Ya around an open camp fire either. My comments on here represent my own opinion. Don't like it? Suck my cock. While you're at it please stop claiming to speak for the good of the "riding community" because you're clearly not. You will be held responsible when it turns to shit, don't forget that.
I'm not representing the riding community, only the ones who agree with what I've put forward.
I can't speak for your taste in song or cock, all I've said is that I support what I believe. When it gets passed, or not, I will be able to say that I actually did something to try and stand up for what I think is right. That's all.

[FJRider]

Acually, Batman ......

Apparently ..... I must spread some Reputation around.

Later dude ... :yes:

[Madness]

I support what I believe. When it gets passed, or not, I will be able to say that I actually did something to try and stand up for what I think is right. That's all.

Good on you. You're a fucking dreamer in my opinion and when I say that, all I'm doing is standing up for what I think is right. Pull your head in before riding a motorcycle in this country becomes even cuntier.

Anyhow, fuck you. I just picked up a new bike and after riding 200k to bring it home it's tine for another ride.

[catharsis]

Haha wow. You're really a top shelf quality human.
I hope all your dreams come true tough guy.

[Madness]

Haha wow. You're really a top shelf quality human.
I hope all your dreams come true tough guy.

I hope yours don't, cuntface.

[Voltaire]

I commute about 40kms a day, don't lanesplit very often as I have changed routes but I have observed that a large proportion of car drivers are either using their phones on speaker or looking at them at the lights.....
Chances of being pulled over by a cop in Auckland are pretty low.

[The Reibz]

Chances of being pulled over by a cop in Auckland are pretty low.

Chances of being ticketed by a Rent a Cop in a Auckland Transport uniform and a chip on their sholder for being to unskilled to get real work are extremely high.

[Ulsterkiwi]

In New Zealand we call it a LINK ... :innocent:

here it is ...

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/assets/Uploads/PDFs/ACC7009-RIDEFOREVER-Infosheet-FA.pdf

Thank you for this link. Interesting that NZ Police are listed amongst the authors. The red headed bloke on a police bike in Wellington who has been gaining a reputation for pulling bikes for splitting/filtering must have missed that day, he has been telling riders its illegal. This document says sometimes it is legal. Useful to have this, cheers.

[Big Dog]

In all reality we would all be happy if the tin tops actually obeyed the instructions to keep as far to the left as is practical at all times and to not knowingly impede traffic that is travelling legally.

If that were always the case I would be able to lane split at 30k faster than the average flow of traffic and up to 60k without needing any change to the rules.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Not sure if that was the actual wording but that was the sentiment when I sat my license.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[AllanB]

Hmmm don't know.

[PrincessBandit]

Legal or not we'll all keep on doing it, just like heaps of other things we keep doing ("it's all good unless you get caught")

[caspernz]

Legal or not we'll all keep on doing it, just like heaps of other things we keep doing ("it's all good unless you get caught")

That is part of the logic for many of us I'd say. If you filter daily though, no harm in signing the petition, unless sitting in Aucklands' carpark that is called a motorway is one of lifes pleasures for some...

[FJRider]

In all reality we would all be happy if the tin tops actually obeyed the instructions to keep as far to the left as is practical at all times and to not knowingly impede traffic that is travelling legally.



For some ... just keeping in their own lane is difficult enough ... :laugh:

A law banning the use of cell phones ... while driving ... MIGHT help ... :whistle:

[Big Dog]

For some ... just keeping in their own lane is difficult enough ... :laugh:

A law banning the use of cell phones ... while driving ... MIGHT help ... :whistle:
Law enforcement of anything other than speeding seems to be a bit of a hard ask in an age where fuckers expect evidence instead of just copping to a fair call.
Shit I have always been willing to bend certain rules but then I have also always been willing to own that action if challenged.
I lane split in spite of the confusion, not because of any claim to civil disobedience or
Protest but because my safety comes before the law of the land and I am happy enough to either have a day in court or pay the fine
If caught.

Not so keen on ferals flouting the law for no reason other than it is the law so they must break it and not be accountable or dipshits who Break the law and argue a technicality.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[FJRider]

.. unless sitting in Aucklands' carpark that is called a motorway is one of lifes pleasures for some...

I've avoided that for the last 30 years ... and intend to continue doing so ..

[Reckless]

I think the petition needs a revise after reading this and a bit of a rethink 30K is bloody slow and just an open door for the cops to create another revenue stream maybe this petition has jumped the gun a bit without proper research of the studies out there.


Seems California was the same as NZ...splitting is neither legal nor illegal, with cops ticketing or not at whim.
They have now made it LEGAL within set guidelines
Some facts from actual study of the practice here (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/19393/Motorcycle-Article/AMA-Touts-California-Lane-Splitting-Studies.aspx)



This would make the limit 30k for car speed and 40K max for bike speed which is a little more practicle in my view :)

"We compared the proportion of collision-involved, lane-splitting motorcyclists with injury across several body regions by whether the lane-splitting was done only in traffic flowing at 30 mph or less and that the motorcycle speed should exceed the traffic speed by no more than 10 mph," the crash study stated. "We found that the proportion with each injury type was high when the lane-splitting was consistent with neither speed component, was lower when it was consistent with one speed component, and was lower still when it was consistent with both speed components."


Correction Thanks Ender :)


That's in mph. So, 48km/h traffic at 64km/h max for bikes.

This would be much more realistic than a 30km/h limit, which was obviously not set by anyone who actually lanesplits in motorway commuter traffic.

I agree 50K for cars and 65k for bikes as per the study would be more realistic 30k is like walking??

[James Deuce]

30k is like walking??

It is until you get off a bike traveling at 30kph and realise that it's a bit of a push at a dead run. There's usually a bit of "earth-sky" involved too.

[catharsis]

I only used 30k for the petition knowing two important things.
1. If you want to make NZ law makers listen to something, be able to say "That's what they've done in Australia"
2. Having it in the petition does not make it set in stone. Even if we get enough signatures, there's a lot of processing to do before a new law is written. It's just about setting those wheels in motion.

[Drew]

I only used 30k for the petition knowing two important things.
1. If you want to make NZ law makers listen to something, be able to say "That's what they've done in Australia"
2. Having it in the petition does not make it set in stone. Even if we get enough signatures, there's a lot of processing to do before a new law is written. It's just about setting those wheels in motion.

What's the motivation for it? What is so wrong with the current legislation on filtering that it needs changed?

[catharsis]

There is none.
Passing or overtaking are not filtering.
Filtering specific law works in many other countries. Why not here?

[Drew]

There is none.
Passing or overtaking are not filtering.
Filtering specific law works in many other countries. Why not here?

So using the current overtaking laws, it is possible to filter legally. Why does this need changed?

I've been ticketed for doing it wrongly, but filtered past heaps of cops without issue.

[Madness]

I only used 30k for the petition knowing two important things... Having it in the petition does not make it set in stone.

So you'd still be happy at 20km/hr then?

[BlackSheepLogic]

"Originally Posted by BlackSheepLogic
I don't exceed 30km/hr when splitting."

Congratulations. The point I was making was that most don't do it because it's illegal or it gives them a thrill.

Not really sure what point you were making in the above reply.

Basing the proposal on legislation in Australia where a speed limit was imposed along with licensing restrictions (full license only) is more likely to be supported by the TSA & Police.

The reason I chose to filter or lane split is when very little progress is being made and it's not going to hinder the flow of traffic. If progress is being made by other vehicles on the road the risks are greater with higher speeds & vehicles changing their position or closing gaps in the lanes. It's also more likely to piss the drivers off.

[Juniper]

Question:

When it says "Shoulder" is it meaning the part between the barrier and the right hand lane? Cause that area is full of debris that is just a puncture waiting to happen.

[GrayWolf]

It's not going to be a barrel of laughs at a maximum of <30km/hr and I doubt that many will get an adrenaline rush splitting at 35km/he either.

it's not SUPPOSED to be a 'barrel of laughs'?? You are executing a 'high risk' maneuver, no matter how you justify it...

When I had a Popo instructor in the UK on a course, his comment to the class was... Although they dont fully condone lane splitting in moving traffic.. the 'general rule' they used themselves was, 50kph (30mph) moving traffic... dont filter/split, stay in the flow. Below 50kph, do not exceed their speed by 10-15mph (say 20kph).
Once a car reaches 50kph, if the driver decided to 'dive into a gap beside him (directly in front of you), you wont have enough reaction time.

Yes we all (guilty) exceed that sometime or other... but when I see bikes diving between cars doing 70kph or more (so the bike's doing 80-90)? If I was Mr Filter Nazi Popo... I'd be dishing out a few lectures and tickets.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Question:

When it says "Shoulder" is it meaning the part between the barrier and the right hand lane? Cause that area is full of debris that is just a puncture waiting to happen.

By convention in the direction of travel (left to right) : Verge - Shoulder - Lane 1 ... Lane .... Lane - Central Reserve

[GrayWolf]

So you'd still be happy at 20km/hr then?

I dont usually reply to red rep, and not in a post

however.....



you obviously are far more knowledgeable and highly trained than a UK Police rider..... Which I certainly dont claim to be :msn-wink:


if I'm a 'thick c*nt".... go look in the mirror numbnuts. :devil2:

[Juniper]

By convention in the direction of travel (left to right) : Verge - Shoulder - Lane 1 ... Lane .... Lane - Central Reserve

That doesn't sound right. Cause then it would interferer with on/off ramps.

If they let us use the big bus way on the Northern then that would make things a lot easier. But I could see people using it as a drag strip.

[BlackSheepLogic]

That doesn't sound right. Cause then it would interferer with on/off ramps.

Sorry, I don't understand your reply.

[Juniper]

Sorry, I don't understand your reply.

Ok so if your looking down on the motorway you have 3 lanes. On either side of lane 1 and 3 there is a gap between the lane and the barrier, which is usually where you can pull over if you have an accident or sometimes where the emergency services will go if its bumper to bumper traffic. I would call the one on the right hand side the "shoulder", which in this picture is grass but lets pretend its not, and the one on the left the "pull over" area (where you pull over if you get pulled over by the police). That part however isn't a constant as on and off ramps go from lane 1. So if you were riding in that area you would have to go into lane 1 every time there was an on/off ramp.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/historichighways/MAM58_files/image009.jpg

Either of those areas are usually filled with stuff- broken glass, bolts, rubbish, tyre shreds from previous accidents. I've been on the on/off ramp part before (between the onramp and the 1st lane of traffic) and got a puncture from what I think was a nail.

[BlackSheepLogic]

The left is referred to as the shoulder and the right is referred to as the central reservation.


Ok so if your looking down on the motorway you have 3 lanes. On either side of lane 1 and 3 there is a gap between the lane and the barrier, which is usually where you can pull over if you have an accident or sometimes where the emergency services will go if its bumper to bumper traffic. I would call the one on the right hand side the "shoulder", which in this picture is grass but lets pretend its not, and the one on the left the "pull over" area (where you pull over if you get pulled over by the police). That part however isn't a constant as on and off ramps go from lane 1. So if you were riding in that area you would have to go into lane 1 every time there was an on/off ramp.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/historichighways/MAM58_files/image009.jpg

Either of those areas are usually filled with stuff- broken glass, bolts, rubbish, tyre shreds from previous accidents. I've been on the on/off ramp part before (between the onramp and the 1st lane of traffic) and got a puncture from what I think was a nail.

[Madness]

Either of those areas are usually filled with stuff- broken glass, bolts, rubbish, tyre shreds from previous accidents. I've been on the on/off ramp part before (between the onramp and the 1st lane of traffic) and got a puncture from what I think was a nail.

According to the petition organiser you must also be living in a crap area as those areas where he lives are perfectly clean. :facepalm:

[swarfie]

According to the petition organiser you must also be living in a crap area as those areas where he lives are perfectly clean. :facepalm:

He lives in Dorkland...nuff said :laugh:

[Swoop]

If they let us use the big bus way on the Northern then that would make things a lot easier.

When the initial concept was raised and pimped around to garner support to fund the northern busway, bikes were allowed to use it.
Then it was built and quickly the bussists' wanted to play with their toy without anyone else being allowed to play on it.

Perhaps a better petition to take to the politicians, would be one calling for bikes to be allowed to use the northern busway (as initially promised)?

[Old Steve]

You guys want to recognise the difference between lane filtering and lane splitting. Under the new NSW and QLD legislation, lane filtering is moving between lanes of stopped or slowly moving traffic at a maximum speed of 30 km/hr and is legal. Speeding between lanes of moving traffic at 70 km/hr is lane splitting and is illegal.

Before NSW introduced lane filtering they did a 3 month trial in downtown Sydney, and they sold lane filtering to the car driver as a win-win situation, for every motorbike that lane filters, a car moves up in the traffic queue.

Here, you can pass on the inside of the inside lane on motorways, but not in built up areas where there is a danger to pedestrians. Can't lane filter in school zones either.

It's quite sensible legislation, I'm glad QLD introduced legislation designed by NSW, but Victoria aren't going to have a bar of it. The Ozzie State system f*#ks the country. QLD have just introduced that helmets can now be CE standard and not need the Aust/NZ standard mark. But if I have a legal CE approved helmet that doesn't also carry the Aust/NZ standard mark it's OK here in QLD but it's illegal if I ride over the border into NSW or further south.

Goes without saying that this is the country where the $2 coin is smaller than the $1 coin! Oh, and if you have two bank accounts, a current acct and a savings acct, guess which account you choose on an ATM or EFTPOS if you want the money to come out of your current account? Yeah, you choose "savings".

At least NSW and QLD have got it right about lane filtering.

[TheDemonLord]

When the initial concept was raised and pimped around to garner support to fund the northern busway, bikes were allowed to use it.
Then it was built and quickly the bussists' wanted to play with their toy without anyone else being allowed to play on it.

Perhaps a better petition to take to the politicians, would be one calling for bikes to be allowed to use the northern busway (as initially promised)?

I saw a police bike this morning without his lights on having a cruise on the northern busway - I was jelly

[Drew]

Probably true of most groups made up of a wide demographic, but bikers are our own worst enemy. This is a stupid thing for any of us to be trying to organise.

Licence holding motorcycle riders are not capable of basic bike control for the most part. There is a small sub group who have mostly spent a lot of time racing/riding competitively and honed certain skills through experience/trial and error. A surprisingly small number of them actually develop skills I would define as a good feel for their machine though.

I can spit from my house and probably hit three riders with 30+ years experience each, who I wouldn't let ride my bike if they paid me.

To sum up. Without proper training and assessment we are gonna keep on dying at a disproportionate rate to other road users, and quite rightly not be listened to by any authority.

So stick your filtering up your arse, and have a think about your priorities.

[Ender EnZed]

Ok so if your looking down on the motorway you have 3 lanes...

A normal two-lane, one each way road still has a shoulder. It's the space of road on the left of the fog line.

Most dual carriageways have basically no space at all to the right of the rightmost lane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)

[BlackSheepLogic]

I kind of disagree on your definition of splitting vrs filtering. The QLD legislation as I remember it confused filtering & splitting using the terms interchanged.

IMHO, If the traffic is stopped for example at a set of lights you would be filtering. If the traffic is moving (slowly or otherwise) it's splitting.


You guys want to recognise the difference between lane filtering and lane splitting. Under the new NSW and QLD legislation, lane filtering is moving between lanes of stopped or slowly moving traffic at a maximum speed of 30 km/hr and is legal. Speeding between lanes of moving traffic at 70 km/hr is lane splitting and is illegal.

Before NSW introduced lane filtering they did a 3 month trial in downtown Sydney, and they sold lane filtering to the car driver as a win-win situation, for every motorbike that lane filters, a car moves up in the traffic queue.

Here, you can pass on the inside of the inside lane on motorways, but not in built up areas where there is a danger to pedestrians. Can't lane filter in school zones either.

It's quite sensible legislation, I'm glad QLD introduced legislation designed by NSW, but Victoria aren't going to have a bar of it. The Ozzie State system f*#ks the country. QLD have just introduced that helmets can now be CE, Japanese or DOT standard and not need the Aust/NZ standard mark. But if I have a legal CE/Jap/DOT approved helmet that doesn't also carry the Aust/NZ standard mark it's OK here in QLD but it's illegal if I ride over the border into NSW or further south.

Goes without saying that this is the country where the $2 coin is smaller than the $1 coin! Oh, and if you have two bank accounts, a current acct and a savings acct, guess which account you choose on an ATM or EFTPOS if you want the money to come out of your current account? Yeah, you choose "savings".

At least NSW and QLD have got it right about lane filtering.

[Juniper]

Lane filtering is already legal: "A motorcycle may overtake a vehicle on the right within the same lane if it is safe to do so. The traffic must be stationary or slow-moving and the way ahead must be clear. A motorcycle may overtake a vehicle on the left only if that vehicle is stationary or if it is turning right."

It's the lanes plitting that is the question.

[BlackSheepLogic]

To sum up. Without proper training and assessment we are gonna keep on dying at a disproportionate rate to other road users, and quite rightly not be listened to by any authority.

The disproportionate death rate of riders vrs drivers has a lot to do with the venerability of riders compared to drivers. Because there is less protection for a rider the outcome tends to be more serious at a given speed.


Licence holding motorcycle riders are not capable of basic bike control for the most part. There is a small sub group who have mostly spent a lot of time racing/riding competitively and honed certain skills through experience/trial and error. A surprisingly small number of them actually develop skills I would define as a good feel for their machine though.

Experience on the roads is better than time spent on the track if the objective is to hone road skills.

[Drew]

The disproportionate death rate of riders vrs drivers has a lot to do with the venerability of riders compared to drivers. Because there is less protection for a rider the outcome tends to be more serious at a given speed.Yeah, ad dumb fucks that we are we keep crashing our fucken brains out.




Experience on the roads is better than time spent on the track if the objective is to hone road skills.Don't talk shit. I am not referring to just tarmac tracks either.

Bike control is the biggest shortfall of riders, followed fucken closely by the inability to assess risk and manage it. Teach a rider how to correctly ride their bike, and they can start ​to figure out the risks of a situation.

[GrayWolf]

Yeah, ad dumb fucks that we are we keep crashing our fucken brains out.



Don't talk shit. I am not referring to just tarmac tracks either.

Bike control is the biggest shortfall of riders, followed fucken closely by the inability to assess risk and manage it. Teach a rider how to correctly ride their bike, and they can start ​to figure out the risks of a situation.

and THAT dear boy, is WHY so many of us don't agree with the 'do track days' to learn how to ride school of thought.... The ONLY training that teaches both ROAD control AND 'risk assessment' is training based on the Police Roadcraft system...

Knowing how to get your fucken knee down, climb all over the bike, or, take 'race lines' doesn't mean squat on the road when you come round a blind/low vision corner and find sheep/shit/cows/vehicle in front of you.....

[Old Steve]

I kind of disagree on your definition of splitting vrs filtering. The QLD legislation as I remember it confused filtering & splitting using the terms interchanged.

You are incorrect blacksheep, and I know for sure that your opinion isn't written into the Queensland Road Rules. The Queensland Road Rules due to come into effect in 2015 do include a single reference to lane splitting. However these latest regulations do NOT confuse lane filtering and lane splitting. The only reference to lane splitting in the Queensland Road Rules is:

Lane splitting

Lane splitting is a term sometimes used for riding a motorcycle at speed through moving traffic. The higher speed increases the unpredictability of motorcycle movements and so would increase the crash risk for the rider and other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists. In Queensland lane filtering at over 30km/hr will be prohibited and penalties will apply.

That's quite clear isn't it?

[Drew]

and THAT dear boy, is WHY so many of us don't agree with the 'do track days' to learn how to ride school of thought.... The ONLY training that teaches both ROAD control AND 'risk assessment' is training based on the Police Roadcraft system...

Knowing how to get your fucken knee down, climb all over the bike, or, take 'race lines' doesn't mean squat on the road when you come round a blind/low vision corner and find sheep/shit/cows/vehicle in front of you.....You are taking what I said out of context.

I merely said that the majority of riders who do have the required bike control levels, come from a competitive background.

Knee down be fucked, I made no such implication.

I am talking about bike control. "Road control" is a contradiction. Can the road be controlled? Never managed to stop cows stepping out or surface to remain constant with the power of my mind, but that might just be my mind not being overly powerful.

MOST riders do not ride their bike knowing what it's doing under themselves, or how to make it do what they want in the best way. Fix that, then fuck about with your 'roadcraft'. Yer just pissing in the wind otherwise. But it's not my pants getting wet, so I don't really give a fuck.

[GrayWolf]

You are taking what I said out of context.

I merely said that the majority of riders who do have the required bike control levels, come from a competitive background.

Knee down be fucked, I made no such implication.

I am talking about bike control. "Road control" is a contradiction. Can the road be controlled? Never managed to stop cows stepping out or surface to remain constant with the power of my mind, but that might just be my mind not being overly powerful.

MOST riders do not ride their bike knowing what it's doing under themselves, or how to make it do what they want in the best way. Fix that, then fuck about with your 'roadcraft'. Yer just pissing in the wind otherwise. But it's not my pants getting wet, so I don't really give a fuck.

Ok 'road' control, speed adjustment for bad road surfaces, reading the road, anticipation of impediments (stuff round the corner) vectoring risks, Slow in, fast out... not as I often see, very late braking and hugging the inner line (which reduces visibility around said corner), cadence braking, etc etc.....
Dont think I've seen sheep/cow shit lumps of mud on a race track, just round the corner. And if there's an off/obstruction/oil spill etc?? You have lovely people in reflective jackets waving a flag to warn you...

[Drew]

Ok 'road' control, speed adjustment for bad road surfaces, reading the road, anticipation of impediments (stuff round the corner) vectoring risks, Slow in, fast out... not as I often see, very late braking and hugging the inner line (which reduces visibility around said corner), cadence braking, etc etc.....
Dont think I've seen sheep/cow shit lumps of mud on a race track, just round the corner. And if there's an off/obstruction/oil spill etc?? You have lovely people in reflective jackets waving a flag to warn you...

Are you being thick by intent, or is it an actual impairment?

Stop thinking about lines, knees, flags, or any thing race related for fuck sakes.

Bike control. The ability to understand and react to the machine on which we sit. The mechanics of it, and manipulating them to achieve desired results.

[BlackSheepLogic]

OK, my bad.


You are incorrect blacksheep, and I know for sure that your opinion isn't written into the Queensland Road Rules. The Queensland Road Rules due to come into effect in 2015 do include a single reference to lane splitting. However these latest regulations do NOT confuse lane filtering and lane splitting. The only reference to lane splitting in the Queensland Road Rules is:

Lane splitting

Lane splitting is a term sometimes used for riding a motorcycle at speed through moving traffic. The higher speed increases the unpredictability of motorcycle movements and so would increase the crash risk for the rider and other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists. In Queensland lane filtering at over 30km/hr will be prohibited and penalties will apply.

That's quite clear isn't it?

[Madness]

You are taking what I said out of context.

He's really, really good at that.

[Old Steve]

She's OK blacksheep, sorry for being so pedantic. I've been involved with the petitioning of the QLD Govt to introduce the NSW lane splitting legislation so have been keeping a close eye on it.

Something else they're changing at the same time is the old rules said that you had to keep both feet on the pegs when moving and always face the front. They've removed that, and some other silly little regulations, as they recognise that bike riders need to stretch their legs and turn their heads to look over their shoulder. So it's been quite a change in attitude towards bike riders. These changes actually came about after a Govt organised online questionnaire in response to the petitioning over the lane splitting issue.

[GrayWolf]

Are you being thick by intent, or is it an actual impairment?

Stop thinking about lines, knees, flags, or any thing race related for fuck sakes.

Bike control. The ability to understand and react to the machine on which we sit. The mechanics of it, and manipulating them to achieve desired results.

Aggressive response when challenged (name calling or derogatory comment) is usually the resort of the intellectually 'challenged' Now go sit in the time out corner, and be a good boy.... :rolleyes:

[bogan]

Aggressive response when challenged (name calling or derogatory comment) is usually the resort of the intellectually 'challenged' Now go sit in the time out corner, and be a good boy.... :rolleyes:

To be fair though, he made a valid point afterwards, did you?

You don't learn advanced bike control just by riding on the roads everyday. It's kinda like teaching newbies to drive, you stick them in a paddock with a hack and let them get the mechanical aspects down, before letting em loose on the road with other traffic and hazards. You learn best at a specific thing in exclusion of other things which take up your attention, and better learning is less required attention... it's a nice cycle really. One which doesn't require a track of course, but does require a similarly safe place to push said limits.

[Drew]

Aggressive response when challenged (name calling or derogatory comment) is usually the resort of the intellectually 'challenged' Now go sit in the time out corner, and be a good boy.... :rolleyes:I'm not trying to start a shit fight, was just trying to get you to pay attention.

[yevjenko]

So Drew... What do you suggest we learn? Your comments suggest that practically no one you have seen on the road understand what's going on with their bikes. So what do you suggest?

[Drew]

So Drew... What do you suggest we learn? Your comments suggest that practically no one you have seen on the road understand what's going on with their bikes. So what do you suggest?

It's early so I'm not completely with it. But let's start with some basics. Using the throttle to balance a bike when you're turning.

To get off the brakes when cornering going down hill.

That a slide isn't a reason to panic...nor is coming in a bit hot.

Simple stuff for some, but not the majority. Just yesterday I watched a learner rider mount a round about because she hasn't been taught that her CBR250 is gonna tip in very quickly if you throttle off in first gear.

I don't expect people to be trained to level of motogp like control, but there are more bad riders than good.

[Tazz]

I hope yours don't, cuntface.



http://youtu.be/jbDx5bBGX8w

[Madness]

Selfie

Funny, I imagined you were older somehow.

[Tazz]

Funny, I imagined you were older somehow.

\http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/372/560/6e8.jpg

Sorry I couldn't hear you over your small oboe tough guy.

[Madness]

I'm a much bigger faggot than you'll ever be.

You're right, I've got nothing on you Picton cunts.

[Tazz]

:crybaby::crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGwuHfjuF10

[Madness]

Your old man does look like a bit of a pedo too, which explains so much.

[Tazz]

Your old man does look like a bit of a pedo too, which explains so much.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjBjUM7j64_szZko2T29RhuExNHa0R8 SHUIkRy6xqQraHjdE7U

[Madness]

Cool story big fella...

I thought you'd like it.

[catharsis]

Well Craig Foss is out.
He states that lane filtering by motorcycles is not legal. So if the Associate Minister of Transport say's it's not on, no wonder cops are confused when they have "guidelines" that say one thing and laws (and Ministers) that say another thing.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Confusion by the minister between filtering & splitting. If the traffic is stopped under the current passing rules filtering is all good.

When the traffic is moving there is an issue when passing on the left (under-passing) which I would have liked seen addressed as it's being done in QLD. I'm OK with the low speed restrictions that they put in place.



Well Craig Foss is out.
He states that lane filtering by motorcycles is not legal. So if the Associate Minister of Transport say's it's not on, no wonder cops are confused when they have "guidelines" that say one thing and laws (and Ministers) that say another thing.

[TheDemonLord]

Confusion by the minister between filtering & splitting. If the traffic is stopped under the current passing rules filtering is all good.

When the traffic is moving there is an issue when passing on the left (under-passing) which I would have liked seen addressed as it's being done in QLD. I'm OK with the low speed restrictions that they put in place.

Ministers are confused - Why am I not surprised?

However I think his comment sums it up nicely - there isn't a problem per se, we all filter (at our risk and at what speed we feel comfortable) and most cops leave us to it, unless we are filtering in heavy traffic on the back wheel at 180 kph through traffic, or we are riding like knobs.

Out of curiosity - do you filter much BlackSheep? and if so, I am curious why you are okay with low speed restrictions

[BlackSheepLogic]

Out of curiosity - do you filter much BlackSheep? and if so, I am curious why you are okay with low speed restrictions

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours). The busa is a heavy bike to manage in traffic and I keep my speed to 30km/h or less. For me, the lower speed gives more time to assess what is happening around me and to manage those risks. If the drivers start making steady forward progress the risks increase and I would rather be back in line instead of dealing with them.

I see a lot of bikes filtering though the traffic a lot faster, I have no problem with that and move back in line to let them though but those riders are taking on more risk than I chose to. My view on setting a low speed limit in filtering/lane splitting legislation is not because I think filtering/lane splitting cannot be done safely at higher speeds. From a pragmatic perspective I think we are more likely to get legislation based on the legislation adopted in Australia rather than a clean slate approach.

[TheDemonLord]

I see a lot of bikes filtering though the traffic a lot faster, I have no problem with that and move back in line to let them though but those riders are taking on more risk than I chose to. My view on setting a low speed limit in filtering/lane splitting legislation is not because I think filtering/lane splitting cannot be done safely at higher speeds. From a pragmatic perspective I think we are more likely to get legislation based on the legislation adopted in Australia rather than a clean slate approach.

As you said, some people filter faster and that it can be done safely at higher speeds - if something is safe at higher speeds, we should not be kowtowing to politicians obsession with speed in order to simply get legislation passed.

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at, than have an enforced arbitrary limit which IMO doesn't make that much sense in real world filtering (given that traffic speeds up and slows down from stand still to 30 at various points on most motorways)

[yevjenko]

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at,

Illegally of course (well according to some police officers)

[scracha]

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours). The busa is a heavy bike to manage in traffic and I keep my speed to 30km/h or less. For me, the lower speed gives more time to assess what is happening around me and to manage those risks. If the drivers start making steady forward progress the risks increase and I would rather be back in line instead of dealing with them.


Hmm...if it's real, real slow then I'm more nervous as that's when car drivers are more likely to do stupid shit. Maybe the rule should be no more than 30k faster than the other traffic up to 70k?

[Berries]

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours).
Does that mean good visibility?

[TheDemonLord]

Illegally of course (well according to some police officers)

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....

[yevjenko]

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....
Good answer!

Any one know what they are actually charging folks with?

[Drew]

As you said, some people filter faster and that it can be done safely at higher speeds - if something is safe at higher speeds, we should not be kowtowing to politicians obsession with speed in order to simply get legislation passed.

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at, than have an enforced arbitrary limit which IMO doesn't make that much sense in real world filtering (given that traffic speeds up and slows down from stand still to 30 at various points on most motorways)

Laws cannot be made with any reference to what bikers are comfortable with. We are seemingly comfortable with killing ourselves in droves for fuck sakes!


What a stupid bloody idea. Leaving something up to people who exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills.

[James Deuce]

I think lanesplitting is probably a dead duck now. What needs to be made absolutely legal is filtering in stationary traffic and in Wellington, being allowed to use the cyclist launch bays as well.

[TheDemonLord]

Laws cannot be made with any reference to what bikers are comfortable with. We are seemingly comfortable with killing ourselves in droves for fuck sakes!


What a stupid bloody idea. Leaving something up to people who exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills.

How is that any different than leaving it to Politicians?

Actually, Laws CAN be made with reference to what society is comfortable with - you will note that Society is not comfortable with Slavery and we also have laws making it illegal, same recently with Gay marriage, Society was finally comfortable (enough) with the idea, and saw it was made into Law.

Now that we have dealt with that, let me dismantle your strawman - are we killing ourselves in droves WHILE filtering at speeds we are comfortable? From memory the biggest 2 killers of bikers is Cars turning right across the paths of bikers (not applicable while filtering on the motorway) and Bikers coming too hot into a corner on the open road and crossing the centreline (again, not applicable while filtering on the motorway)

Finally - suppose I concede that the motorcyclists do exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills - how do we address this?

The answer isn't arbitrary laws with little rational behind them or no relation to what happens in the real world - The answer is better training and identifying those at highest risks (the Fair Weather summer rider on a superbike and the Born-Again-Biker) and working WITH these groups to help them make better decisions, instead of slapping them with more ill-thought out legislation which they will almost certainly ignore (thus not doing anything to appease the problem)

[geoffm]

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....

The problem is they don't need to prove it. Like speeding, just stating that you were wrong is enough to get you nailed. The onus of proof ison you to prove that you weren't wrong. Good luck...

[Devil]

Well Craig Foss is out.
He states that lane filtering by motorcycles is not legal. So if the Associate Minister of Transport say's it's not on, no wonder cops are confused when they have "guidelines" that say one thing and laws (and Ministers) that say another thing.

I have read the Road User Rule start to finish and it says no such thing about specifying that motorcycle filtering is not legal. He's talking out his arse. The legislation is freely available.

[Drew]

I have repeatedly explained how to address the issue of bikers killing ourselves. But since it requires bikers admitting fallibility, we're screwed.

[James Deuce]

I have read the Road User Rule start to finish and it says no such thing about specifying that motorcycle filtering is not legal. He's talking out his arse. The legislation is freely available.


Nick Smith was talking out of his arse, as was every Govt official about the justification for raising ACC levies. It doesn't matter. If they tell the people who don't like us lane splitting and filtering that it's illegal, they will believe that.

[bogan]

I have repeatedly explained how to address the issue of bikers killing ourselves. But since it requires bikers admitting fallibility, we're screwed.

But what if you're wrong about that? :scratch: :shifty:

[James Deuce]

But what if you're wrong about that? :scratch: :shifty:

He's not entirely right, but he's not entirely wrong either.

[TheDemonLord]

The problem is they don't need to prove it. Like speeding, just stating that you were wrong is enough to get you nailed. The onus of proof ison you to prove that you weren't wrong. Good luck...

One could request a court date for the fine and present a case of reasonable doubt (the police officer couldn't see where your rear tyre was in relation to the centreline due to his position and the position of you on your bike)

Unlike speeding, where there is a Radar log (which is objective proof of your speed) you could make the case that without a dash camera/picture/video evidence that the police have failed to meet the burden of proof for a conviction

[Big Dog]

One could request a court date for the fine and present a case of reasonable doubt (the police officer couldn't see where your rear tyre was in relation to the centreline due to his position and the position of you on your bike)

Unlike speeding, where there is a Radar log (which is objective proof of your speed) you could make the case that without a dash camera/picture/video evidence that the police have failed to meet the burden of proof for a conviction
Which is exactly why speeding is pushed as an issue instead of more dangerous activities like failing to indicate, keep left or just failing to not drive / ride like a fickwit.

Not saying bend over for every moustache with aviator sunnies, but if your in the wrong you pay the fine. If your in the wrong but disagree with the application if the law contest on those grounds.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I have repeatedly explained how to address the issue of bikers killing ourselves. But since it requires bikers admitting fallibility, we're screwed.

Drew, I don't think your point of view was missed. Some of us just have a different view on how those skills are best developed. The police road craft system promotes bike handling/control as well as defensive riding.

[TheDemonLord]

Drew, I don't think your point of view was missed. Some of us just have a different view on how those skills are best developed. The police road craft system promotes bike handling/control as well as defensive riding.

Too add to this - I don't think that more laws and more guidelines are the way to help people make better decisions - on the contrary, I actually think it is detrimental to ones intellectual development. Better training and teaching people how to evaluate risks and how to use their brains is a better method.