LAMs on a budget

[eomo]

Hi KiwiBiker-ers!

Newbie here, don't have a ride yet but in the market for one. I could find any up to date info about this, so my question to you guys is:

What is your recommendation for new LAMs bikes under $5000?

I figured that, as a new rider and one not so mechanically experienced (yet, willing to get hands dirty), a new or near new bike would be the best fit. And $5k would be my absolute ceiling - more points for cheaper bikes that allow me to get better gear (am I right in thinking this is more important? I think I am :confused:).

My usage would be commuting, rain or shine, with one or two "Palmy to Auckland" length return trip per year. But do feel free to suggest any bike with reasoning, my hopes is that other wannabe bikers would benefit from this list as well.

Looking forward to hearing people's suggestions, I've greatly enjoyed lurking on KB for the past couple of months and seeing the community here.

[sil3nt]

Ninja 250
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchString=ninja+250&rptpath=1-&type=Search&searchType=2509&generalSearch_keypresses=3&generalSearch_suggested=0&generalSearch_suggestedCategory=

Should be able to grab one for around $3500

Or older and cheaper and just as reliable: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-795278863.htm
You may be put off by the age but they didn't stop making these until 2007.

You could grab a newer GPX but they look like shit IMO
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-806324589.htm

tl;dr
get a ninja :yes:

[cs363]

Ninja 250
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchString=ninja+250&rptpath=1-&type=Search&searchType=2509&generalSearch_keypresses=3&generalSearch_suggested=0&generalSearch_suggestedCategory=


I'd second that, good reliable bike with a good reputation and not too old either for the $$$

[haydes55]

Buy your gear. Then come back to this question when you have an exact budget to spend.

"This bike would be perfect, I'll still have enough money for all the gear"....... Nek minnit...... "I didn't realise boots cost that much!"

[Akzle]

I've greatly enjoyed lurking on KB for the past couple of months and seeing the community here.

thats how i feel about hanging outside your sisters place...

I will tick a few things OFF your list. As a n00b, Do not buy:
hyosung
harley
anything european
anything pre-1996
'unfinished project, just needs...'
anything less than 600cc with RR in the name.

Do a fucking search, the question HAS been answered ( :sit on/test ride and find what fits)

[eomo]

Ninja 250
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchString=ninja+250&rptpath=1-&type=Search&searchType=2509&generalSearch_keypresses=3&generalSearch_suggested=0&generalSearch_suggestedCategory=

Should be able to grab one for around $3500

Or older and cheaper and just as reliable: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-795278863.htm
You may be put off by the age but they didn't stop making these until 2007.

You could grab a newer GPX but they look like shit IMO
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-806324589.htm

tl;dr
get a ninja :yes:

Interesting, I had not heard about the GPXs before. Back into the internet rabbit hole I go!

I note that most of the bikes listed there which are under my budget are around 30000ks mileage, which is worrying to me. Is that valid? I was only looking at under 10k mileage before.

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll have to find a ninja to sit on.

[eomo]

Buy your gear. Then come back to this question when you have an exact budget to spend.

"This bike would be perfect, I'll still have enough money for all the gear"....... Nek minnit...... "I didn't realise boots cost that much!"
I hear ya, I have actually thought quite a bit about the gear, and priced then out according to recommendations around. Midrange HJC helmet, 1tonne everything else, comes to around $1250. If I need to add more than that I'll have to actually rode before knowing what that is.

My suggestion of 5k was after all this in a way, if I manage to get a cheaper bike I can look at Shoei or a box for stuff, and also so that people don't straight away jump to "buy a street figthing mt-en6n triple supermotard".

Hopefully you have some thoughts from experience about which bikes are budget goodies? Underrated bikes?

[Akzle]

I note that most of the bikes listed there which are under my budget are around 30000ks mileage, which is worrying to me. Is that valid? I was only looking at under 10k mileage before.

hopeful.
Any bike not raped should make 60k without too much needed.

[nzspokes]

I have a bike with 40,000ks on it and just run in. I used to have a bike with 80,000ks and it ran perfect. I have mates with bikes over 150,000ks and they are fine.

As long as it is looked after any bike will last.

[eomo]

thats how i feel about hanging outside your sisters place...

I will tick a few things OFF your list. As a n00b, Do not buy:
hyosung
harley
anything european
anything pre-1996
'unfinished project, just needs...'
anything less than 600cc with RR in the name.

Do a fucking search, the question HAS been answered ( :sit on/test ride and find what fits)
I understand that in order to purchase the right bike, I need to ride it - this is a given. But surely it can't hurt to offer some recommendations of budget bikes that you have ridden which are surprisingly good? I don't have many friends that ride, so I have a limited pool of experience to draw from.

Thanks for the list of un-recommendation though.

[eomo]

I have a bike with 40,000ks on it and just run in. I used to have a bike with 80,000ks and it ran perfect. I have mates with bikes over 150,000ks and they are fine.

As long as it is looked after any bike will last.
That's somewhat reassuring. Now I just need to get over my debilitating mistrust of people when it comes to their service histories and riding habits.

[haydes55]

Get a motard. Look at KLX250/300, DRZ400, XR250, wr250/450/426 (the WRs are probably better suited to experienced riders, and are more expensive).

As for other style bikes in the price range. If you want lower milage/newer bikes, they will probably be dull bikes. E.g. Gn250. Aim for a bike around 2005 or newer would be plenty new enough to be reliable. Do you know what to look for when buying a bike in terms of worn out replaceable parts?

[Tazz]

How long is your commute?

[eomo]

Get a motard. Look at KLX250/300, DRZ400, XR250, wr250/450/426 (the WRs are probably better suited to experienced riders, and are more expensive).

As for other style bikes in the price range. If you want lower milage/newer bikes, they will probably be dull bikes. E.g. Gn250. Aim for a bike around 2005 or newer would be plenty new enough to be reliable. Do you know what to look for when buying a bike in terms of worn out replaceable parts?

Hmm, never thought about motard for commuting, why are they your choice?

As for what to look for in a 2nd hand bike, I know to look for signs of having been dropped, look at the tread, how much rust there is on it, black oil... Something about fork seals, but I have to do more research about that.

[eomo]

How long is your commute?
Currently in Palmerston North, so commute isn't long. But I'll be moving back to Auckland in the near future, which will be at least an hour from previous experience.

[avimistry]

+1 on the ninja 250 if you want something newer. Otherwise I'd go with something like the Honda Hornet 250. Models around 2000 can be had for around $3k. Or those older model 4 cylinder sport 250s (cbr250rr,zxr250). Heaps of fun.. and that sweet sweet sound with a slip-on can't be beat:Punk:. For gear look at 1Tonne. Great rep and great prices. I'll be getting some textiles soon.

This is an exciting time searching for a bike and gear, so enjoy, stay safe, and have fun!

[mossy1200]

Offer this guy 4800

Kawasaki Versys 2007
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-804900339.htm

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-804672895.htm

2grand ring him now

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-804536664.htm

Looks good value

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-804357595.htm

Such fun

[Ocean1]

Offer this guy 4800

Kawasaki Versys 2007
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-804900339.htm

Saw that but assumed it wasn't LAMS approved?

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-796273593.htm

Find out how low he will go

[mossy1200]

Saw that but assumed it wasn't LAMS approved?

I think that model is KLE650 which is on list.

[GrayWolf]

Currently in Palmerston North, so commute isn't long. But I'll be moving back to Auckland in the near future, which will be at least an hour from previous experience.

Mossy is giving you solid advice...

250's are OK, but you can now open up your choices to far better machines...

if you'll have an hours commute... the performance between a GPX/Ninja and say a GS500 isnt that huge, but it's the flexibility (torque) etc that will be far better..

Look at things like the XT660, DR650, GS500 etc, etc.... they are all 'full' motorcycles that have a proven record and will cover big distances.

[eomo]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-796273593.htm

Find out how low he will go
Some cool ones you have posted (although for this one, wow, 80k+ mileage?), thanks for that. Maybe instead recommend some models that you have found good? More for other noobs like me to see. I can look on Trademe from there.

[eomo]

I think that model is KLE650 which is on list.
Is it an issue if it is modded?

[mossy1200]

Is it an issue if it is modded?

Unplug the power commander.

[mossy1200]

Some cool ones you have posted (although for this one, wow, 80k+ mileage?), thanks for that. Maybe instead recommend some models that you have found good? More for other noobs like me to see. I can look on Trademe from there.

My main bike on my learners was a rg400f 2 smoke. Its the bike I looked after while the rest as below. (note penalty was 3 month extension and no fine and you didn't get hassled if you were not doing dumb stuff.


25years ago when I was on my learners licence I was riding the 250 early to late 80s 250s you can buy today. My mates were also.
We disconnected the speedos and worked them past the redline. Maintence was fixing things after they were destroyed.

Advice on 250 bikes from my generation. Don't touch them.

Calculating that new generation young adults are worse than my generation was.

Advice on newer 250 bikes. Don't touch them.

Find a midsized bike that's been looked after. Generally it wont have been thrashed and will have more torque so wont work as hard to do the same job on a trip. Everything inside wont turn over as fast, wear out as quick or have very small tolerances.

80km on the gs if looked after could be the same as 25k on a 250 or 10k on a poorly maintained boy raced 250.

[amberzfire]

hey matey , good question .. I'm probably about the only one in this thread so far who learnt to ride on a Yamaha Scorpio Z 223cc lol .. I'm old and only jumped on a bike in 2008 I picked one up for 3 1/2 grand back then .. no prior experience .. so was pretty freaked out to begin with, I found the scorpy fantastic, easy once I got the hang of it, no probs with my height Im 5'9 might have looked funny but I felt comfy, in Oz (central qld) at that time learner bikes were up 650cc approved but that was too much of a mind fk for a greenie like me .. Im not sure it's your thing but thought I would mention it anyway .. I bought 1tonne stuff before leaving NZ .. boots textile touring jacket, helmet etc, the gear at the time I thought was great .. which they were .. just not ideal for ozzie weather (I bought my gears before I got the bike) anyway good luck .. heaps of great advice from the old hands in here :2thumbsup

[mossy1200]

hey matey , good question .. I'm probably about the only one in this thread so far who learnt to ride on a Yamaha Scorpio Z 223cc lol .. I'm old and only jumped on a bike in 2008 I picked one up for 3 1/2 grand back then .. no prior experience .. so was pretty freaked out to begin with, I found the scorpy fantastic, easy once I got the hang of it, no probs with my height Im 5'9 might have looked funny but I felt comfy, in Oz (central qld) at that time learner bikes were up 650cc approved but that was too much of a mind fk for a greenie like me .. Im not sure it's your thing but thought I would mention it anyway .. I bought 1tonne stuff before leaving NZ .. boots textile touring jacket, helmet etc, the gear at the time I thought was great .. which they were .. just not ideal for ozzie weather (I bought my gears before I got the bike) anyway good luck .. heaps of great advice from the old hands in here :2thumbsup

15 pages on your own thread and this is the first motorcycle related information you have shared about yourself.
Maybe you are a real person.

[amberzfire]

15 pages on your own thread and this is the first motorcycle related information you have shared about yourself.
Maybe you are a real person.

thanks for the vote of confidence twinkle toes ..

[Ender EnZed]

I think that model is KLE650 which is on list.

It is a KLE650 but the KLE650 isn't on the list. The 500 is and the KLR650 is. Also the KL650 but that's just the KLR.

[mossy1200]

It is a KLE650 but the KLE650 isn't on the list. The 500 is and the KLR650 is. Also the KL650 but that's just the KLR.

Random E model making life terrible. Wonder how hard it is to get it added as some have already managed to have bike list extended.

[haydes55]

Random E model making life terrible. Wonder how hard it is to get it added as some have already managed to have bike list extended.


The KLR and KLE500 have less power. The KLE650 has the same motor as the 650 ninja (EX650?, too many god damned ninjas). I don't think it fits under the power to weight ratio.

As for why buy a motard.......
1 ) light weight, amongst the lightest.
2 ) cheaper maintenance, no fairings to remove to service a single cylinder engine.
3 ) if you drop it, chances are the damage will be limited to handlebars, levers and indicators. Cheap to repair compared to other bikes.
4 ) great commuters, slim for was splitting, light, plenty of low down torque from a single and a nice high view over cars to better see traffic.
5 ) fun for a blat down a twisty road.
6 ) you can go anywhere...... Almost. I road mine on long gravel roads on road tires. I even did a lap of an MX track on road tires, jumps and all.
7 ) you can buy completely new plastic kits to make it look good as new for a couple hundred, a couple hundred more for a sweet sticker kit and your bike will look instantly cooler.

[Ender EnZed]

The KLR and KLE500 have less power. The KLE650 has the same motor as the 650 ninja (EX650?, too many god damned ninjas). I don't think it fits under the power to weight ratio.


It is missing a few peak hp though. Using 44 kW and a 206kg wet weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Versys) it would just sneak under at 149kW/T. Maybe it could get put on the list?

[eomo]

Okay, so here is what I've gathered so far:

- Ninja 250s are reputable, many people have them.
- I shouldn't get a used 250 because they do not wear well and people sometimes thrash them.
- Motards are very expensive when compared with their equivalent normal bike, and they tend to be sold unconverted. (Also can someone comment about the fenders effectiveness in rain conditions?)
- Bikes above 600cc are very confusing to sort out with the authorities for LAMs, and more expensive to register and insure.

Crap, is my only option left a new GN250? =(.

Mossy, thanks for recommending the gs500, going to research into that more.

[GrayWolf]

Okay, so here is what I've gathered so far:

- Ninja 250s are reputable, many people have them.
- I shouldn't get a used 250 because they do not wear well and people sometimes thrash them.
- Motards are very expensive when compared with their equivalent normal bike, and they tend to be sold unconverted. (Also can someone comment about the fenders effectiveness in rain conditions?)
- Bikes above 600cc are very confusing to sort out with the authorities for LAMs, and more expensive to register and insure.

Crap, is my only option left a new GN250? =(.

Mossy, thanks for recommending the gs500, going to research into that more.

Ninja 250, GPX, ZZR 250. all basically the same motor.... Sadly Mossy is right, most 250's have been used, abused and frequently have little or poor maintenance performed.... caveat emptor.

Motards? Or the 'adventure' bikes DR, XT KL, F650's etc are a better bet. Up till now they havent been the bikes of choice for learners.
In many ways I am glad to see people still pushing 250 at 'newbie's' it keeps the larger bikes at reduced 'risk'..long may it continue..

In reality, WHY? would you pay an over inflated price, for a raped and fucked 250 when you can buy far better? The GS is a good solid bike, like the EN500/400 if I was learning today? They and the adventure singles are where I would be looking.

[RJC]

I got a kle500 as my lams bike, it's in the same rego price range as the 250's has reasonable power and torque. Being a twin it's smoother than the 650 singles on the list.

Don't buy a mortard if you want to ride it Palmy to Auckland, you'll get blown all over the place by truck air wash with no screen. Good for commuting though.

Got mine for $4k with about 18,000 on the clock.

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-807592857.htm

Hes asking to much but you could always try your luck on a 3.5-4 grand offer

[R650R]

Screw the budget, these look interesting... http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2015-ktm-rc-390-and-2015-ktm-390-duke-coming-to-us?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=boosted-posts&utm_content=stream&utm_term=2015-ktm-rc-390-and-2015-ktm-390-duke-coming-to-us

[Tazz]

In reality, WHY? would you pay an over inflated price, for a raped and fucked 250 when you can buy far better?

Because they are FUN! Good luck punting a GS500 around with as big of a smile on your dial as a 250.

That said, for the day to day 'grind' of commuting you can do better than a 250 inline 4 and I wouldn't bother with the newer gutless single banger 250's when you have the whole LAMs range.

All bikes have their downside and only you can weigh up what is important to you, just like all advice from a salesman or the internet shouldn't be trusted ;)

As for fairings and rain, I much, much prefer them for longer trips, but I wouldn't make it a deal breaker.

I wouldn't get a DR unless you're going to be taking it off road.

[F!ddl3r]

I bought a 650 ER6F as my first bike, I'd never ridden before... and loved it, I kept it a year.. wanted something quicker.
I bet whatever you buy as your 1st bike, you'll be looking at changing it. I've only had my second bike for 3 months and I'm looking at something else.. Because I can :banana:
So get a learner bike, something that feels right when you test ride it.. because guaranteed once you get your licence you going to be changing it.

[FJRider]

... advice from a salesman or the internet shouldn't be trusted ;)



So ... you're not a salesman ... ??? :calm:

[Tazz]

So ... you're not a salesman ... ??? :calm:

Nope! If I had to be labeled as one, it would be the world's worst, and I said all advice (even underlined it:msn-wink:), not everyone is out to get you in NZ. You need to go overseas for that.

[GrayWolf]

Because they are FUN! Good luck punting a GS500 around with as big of a smile on your dial as a 250.

That said, for the day to day 'grind' of commuting you can do better than a 250 inline 4 and I wouldn't bother with the newer gutless single banger 250's when you have the whole LAMs range.

All bikes have their downside and only you can weigh up what is important to you, just like all advice from a salesman or the internet shouldn't be trusted ;)

As for fairings and rain, I much, much prefer them for longer trips, but I wouldn't make it a deal breaker.

I wouldn't get a DR unless you're going to be taking it off road.

Agreed a WELL MAINTINED 250 sprottie is fun,,, but there's the rub, most ARENT, they are raped and fucked grenades in waiting. Yes the GS is a bit heavier, but that weight is comparative, it's still a fairly 'light' bike... It's advantage IS it's more flexible engine wise, more planted (weight) on poor surfaces. Doesnt have to be ridden 9/10th's to get anything out of it.
Yup a 250 inline is a good commuter,,, but then maintenance costs factor in,, a 250 4cyl costs to service the same as a 1000 4cyl. Plus it probably red lines at double the revs of a GS500.
A 250 will bring a 'smile to your dial' I can remember quite clearly my first 250, a Kwacka S1 250 triple,,,, My earlier bikes, specially the CB175 are still smiled on with affection. However after riding 'bigger' bikes? The limitations of a 250 become apparent.
The high performance 250's were introduced AFTER the UK went to a 125cc learner limit, (because of the Suzook X7 and Yam LC250's) in the early 80's. So the 'supersports' 250's you enjoyed in the mid 80's onwards were never meant for the learner market... remember what you call a 'dog' for performance (Hyo) is as FAST as those final 250's released in the UK.

[Tazz]

Agreed a WELL MAINTINED 250 sprottie is fun,,, but there's the rub, most ARENT, they are raped and fucked grenades in waiting. Yes the GS is a bit heavier, but that weight is comparative, it's still a fairly 'light' bike... It's advantage IS it's more flexible engine wise, more planted (weight) on poor surfaces. Doesnt have to be ridden 9/10th's to get anything out of it.
Yup a 250 inline is a good commuter,,, but then maintenance costs factor in,, a 250 4cyl costs to service the same as a 1000 4cyl. Plus it probably red lines at double the revs of a GS500.
A 250 will bring a 'smile to your dial' I can remember quite clearly my first 250, a Kwacka S1 250 triple,,,, My earlier bikes, specially the CB175 are still smiled on with affection. However after riding 'bigger' bikes? The limitations of a 250 become apparent.
The high performance 250's were introduced AFTER the UK went to a 125cc learner limit, (because of the Suzook X7 and Yam LC250's) in the early 80's. So the 'supersports' 250's you enjoyed in the mid 80's onwards were never meant for the learner market... remember what you call a 'dog' for performance (Hyo) is as FAST as those final 250's released in the UK.

Great for commuting (sports we're talkin)? Yeah back when you didn't have a choice.

250cc same to service as a 1000cc, just quietly ignoring all other costs? Do you work for Fairfax in the statistics department or something :P

250 Hyo as fast as early 90's 250s? Numbers on paper and drugs aside have you actually ridden one?

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Hyosung/hyosung_gt_250R%2014.htm

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_gpx250r%2092.htm

[Icemaestro]

Personally having looked at cheap commuters, with some of them being lams approved, I would have no hesitation looking at a 250 - the vtr250 or vt250 spada are good solid reliable bikes, ninja 250's go forever (I had one around the clock), gs500 is a reliable cheap commuter, so is the honda bros 400, as well as cb400 (less around though). Wouldn't recommend bmw f650 due to past issues with reliability. hyo's if you have to post 2008/9 is when they stopped having major problems.

That's my 2c from having owned a wide variety of bikes 650cc and under both lams and non lams approved.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GrayWolf]

Great for commuting (sports we're talkin)? Yeah back when you didn't have a choice.

250cc same to service as a 1000cc, just quietly ignoring all other costs? Do you work for Fairfax in the statistics department or something :P

250 Hyo as fast as early 90's 250s? Numbers on paper and drugs aside have you actually ridden one?

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Hyosung/hyosung_gt_250R%2014.htm

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_gpx250r%2092.htm

To clarify.. what I was meaning is, the Hyo is as fast as the 'final' 250's (learner) released in the UK.... X7/Yam LC........
The Hyo IS faster than the old Kwack 250-3cyl (unless you get the original S1a/b).... faster than the GT 250's, as fast(er) than the air cooled RD's. So for us old fuckers, who rode those bikes as young un's.... the Hyo isnt a slow 250.

If you go to a dealer (generally) they have a service charge for A/B/C services, and a cost for 1/2/3/4 cyl bikes in each service type..... the only real difference is consumables.. less oil, maybe cheaper brake pads, cheaper tyres etc. But the labour costs will be the same.

Have I ridden a 90's 250? Yes, I probably rode all the ones from mid 80's and early 90's... I doubt I'd fit on one now... and the riding position would 'crucify' my neck, wrists and knees.

No I dont work in Fairfax sonny........ as you were!!! :bleh::bleh: