Assistance denied when needed

[el milanes]

Hi,

it's my first message - have just discovered this forum and it seems full for interesting information!

I'd like to hear from you guys what you think about all this.
Yesterday, before going home from work I discovered that my old EL250 was leaking fuel like crazy! It seemed to me that the leakage was coming from one of the two little hoses under the tank.
I wasn't feeling like going home since it's about 30km from work- I didn't think it would have been a good idea to let the fuel leak around a very hot engine.
Since the bike shop where I had my bike serviced recently wasn't far, I took it there.

They said though that all the mechanics had gone home and that they were fully booked for the rest of the week. I asked the guy to take my bike anyway, it didn't really matter to me if I had to wait until next week to have it back.
But he said it was too dangerous to take it and suggested me to go home. He even told me not to park it in front of the shop, because "it's too dangerous".

Well, I think that when you have a fuel leakage the most dangerous thing is to tell someone to ride the bike anywhere. If the engine is off, you just put a bucket under the bike and you'll be safe... but no.
Definitely next time I'll think about it twice before going back to Alicetown for servicing. And I'll rather go to the other shop in LH where I've never been denied assistance.

By the way, eventually I called a friend who has more handle with mechanical stuff and he helped me fixing the old little hoses that were leaking. It took us 20 minutes. Definitely I need to learn more about the kiwi do-it-yourself attitude :sherlock:
Cheers!


UPDATE (15/9/2005)
Good on you TSS
I've been contacted by the manager of TSS who wanted to know exactly how it went. I explained and he said that I shouldn't have been sent off under those circumstances. But it's true that I arrived around 6pm, that means afterhours since they close at 5:30. He apologised anyway and was very helpful.
I apologised myself for not having talked to him before putting the thing on the forum.
My faith is restored and I'd be happy to return with my bike to TSS.

[Sniper]

Bugger mate. Looks like they were just fobbing you off so they could go home. Welcome anyway.

Do you know if a hose is cracked or just come off. Fuel lines are pretty easy ti fix though.:)

[Motu]

Sad isn't it? I own a workshop and do the same myself...refuse to help people over simple things,say I'm shut and close the door.

What happened to the world? Or more correctly to the wonderful country we knew? OSH,Consumer Rights,Small Claims Courts and every other sort of PC rubbish you can think off.No longer will a business put themselves out for a customer...not when there is the potential for the customer to turn around and take the business to court for something they asked the business to do in the first place.It makes me very upset to be an unhelpful sod and know they go away and tell everyone about that miserable prick down the road...not my choice,we've been backed into a corner - once again,the consumer pays.

[MSTRS]

Guy at the shop should have known that the EL has a gravity feed fuel tap. Just turn it to off, to stop hoses leaking until new ones can be fitted. "Too dangerous" Pah!!

[Brains]

An excellent book to get is 101 performance sport bike tips (or something like that), goes through everything from changing oil and plugs (simple stuff), to the more advanced engine type stuff.

I pretty much do the same as you did, get mates to help out, box of beer latter and it's done, everyone happy.

[ManDownUnder]

FFS... take it home??? (Where it will blow up YOUR house?)

nu uh. Which bike shop was it... one of the locals on KB (and or yourself) should get in touch with the Manager there and let them know what happened.

That sucks
MDU

oh - and welcome!

[crashe]

Welcome to KB....

Contact the bikeshop manager today and let them know what their guy said to you...
All they had to do was put the bike inside as you were happy to leave it with them to fix it... with a bucket to catch the fuel.

Shit buggar pushing the bike 30km.... you would still be pushing the bike today.

Glad you got it fixed.. a few beers for your mate.

[DemonWolf]

Welcome el milanes.. glad to hear ya got the fuel leak fixed...

kinda crappy response from the MB shop..

[Pancakes]

I recon it could have been fixed with one of these http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=344590#post344590

[John]

Well fuel system woes just finished fixing mine (vacum feed) and on a certain trip one of the temporary fixes broke and my fuel consumption got to about 1km/l when I stopped I noticed a very shiney chain and litres of fuel pissing out over the case - I didnt blow up, had 7litres of fuel leak in the garage when I was in hospitial came back and the entire house stunk of fuel cat was high but no explosions - they probably just couldnt be screwed - what was the problem fuel hoses abit loose or sumthing?

[mstriumph]

welcome to kb fella --- you won't find any of that unhelpfulness here :)

----- as for the workshop guy - don't sweat it, wat goes around comes around.

[Phurrball]

Sad isn't it? I own a workshop and do the same myself...refuse to help people over simple things,say I'm shut and close the door.

What happened to the world? Or more correctly to the wonderful country we knew? OSH,Consumer Rights,Small Claims Courts and every other sort of PC rubbish you can think off.No longer will a business put themselves out for a customer...not when there is the potential for the customer to turn around and take the business to court for something they asked the business to do in the first place.It makes me very upset to be an unhelpful sod and know they go away and tell everyone about that miserable prick down the road...not my choice,we've been backed into a corner - once again,the consumer pays.

I respectfully disagree - I worked at a workshop where the exact opposite of what you described occurred on a regular basis - help was always available for the little things.

The position you take is your choice. The nature of the regulation you describe is all well and good to bitch about when it impacts on the way you would otherwise choose to do business, but remember the boot is on the other foot when you've been treated shoddily and you have a comeback through the means listed. You have nothing to fear in business if you deal honestly and equitably IMHO.

Arguably compliance costs are an issue - but look at what happens when businesses get more of what they want in regulation - it isn't always a good thing: New Orleans for example - had chemical storage regulations been tighter to deal with the high likelihood of the disaster that occurred, there would be less of a chemical soup to deal with now...

My $0.02 - There are always two sides to every coin...

Cheer up Motu - We're lucky b*stards really - the country is still a great place! Its a great and beautiful land, and people make it greater still! (Usually...)

[White trash]

I read this with interest as I honestly believe that the quality of service in Wellington bike shops was better than this. I could've believed the tale of just about all Auckland stores and none of them seem too interested in changing their outlook anytime soon.

As Crashe suggested, take issue with the manager of the shop.

[pyrocam]

welcome to the site and good on ya for having a go with a mate.

hope you used lots of no. #8 wire

[madboy]

Definitely take it up with the manager. If it's the fellas I'm thinking of, they're usually pretty on to it.

[skelstar]

I havent had any problems really with these guys at all. I have found them to be very willing. Their workshop manager and deputy (?) have been great.

[gromit]

Its funny because I too have dealt with these guys and found them very hepfull. Albeit at this stage only with the retail store and not with the workshop. It does show you shouldnt always "right off" a place from a single bad experience.
Of course emotions would usually tell you otherwise right after you walk out the door.

[froggyfrenchman]

welcome mate. hope you enjoy the site. frogman

[enigma51]

I read this with interest as I honestly believe that the quality of service in Wellington bike shops was better than this. I could've believed the tale of just about all Auckland stores and none of them seem too interested in changing their outlook anytime soon.

As Crashe suggested, take issue with the manager of the shop.
Cant speak for any of the Wellington shops but Colemans has always been pretty good to me but there are others that are fucking useless and will not see me ever again.

[Teflon]

Welcome mate.

Had a problem with our local Honda dealer here in Hams. The parts guys are excellent, but the guy who runs the workshop is a stuck-up arrogant prick, with a bad attitude. He said a lot of smart arse comments while working on my bike. Only asked for a accident appraisal to be done, it was like asking for the world.

Fuck i had a complex after meeting this guy, wasn't sure if it was my bike or my slightly darker complexion.

[el milanes]

Thank you guys for your replies, what an amazing community.

Well, the guys from the shop are watching this thread.
Good comments have been sent by a couple of people here about them and I have to say I was happy about last service. It would be nice to know what they're thinking (probably that I'm a bastard...)
I had no idea this forum was so active!
I believe that they are really busy these days, but this is what happened and others have expressed opinions that match mine.

[crashe]

Thank you guys for your replies, what an amazing community. I had no idea this forum was so active!

Yep this site is running 24/7 and 365 days a year.

There is always someone online, with an answer to any one of your questions that you want to ask... Just join on in...

Hey, check out the "Meetings and Events" section... there is usually a ride happening for you to join in.

Don't be a stranger now... most of us don't bite.... only one or two do...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Oscar]

Sad isn't it? I own a workshop and do the same myself...refuse to help people over simple things,say I'm shut and close the door.

What happened to the world? Or more correctly to the wonderful country we knew? OSH,Consumer Rights,Small Claims Courts and every other sort of PC rubbish you can think off.No longer will a business put themselves out for a customer...not when there is the potential for the customer to turn around and take the business to court for something they asked the business to do in the first place.It makes me very upset to be an unhelpful sod and know they go away and tell everyone about that miserable prick down the road...not my choice,we've been backed into a corner - once again,the consumer pays.

You lying preeck.

You LOVE being a grumpy old shit like the rest of us...



Fess up, Grumpy.

[Mr Skid]

Don't be a stranger now... most of us don't bite.... Yes, the old folks just dribble.

[Ixion]

Yes, the old folks just dribble.

Drivel . It's DRIVEL. As in, pointless.

[Oscar]

Drivel . It's DRIVEL. As in, pointless.

Actually, in my case - it's both :(

[Mr Skid]

Drivel . It's DRIVEL. As in, pointless.I was thinking dribble. As in to slobber or drool.

Though in that sense drivel is a synonym, so I guess we mean the same thing and the city can now sleep at night.

[Beemer]

You said Alicetown - is it the place opposite the Lotto shop? If so, I'm afraid I haven't been impressed with their service. I walked in there a few months ago - BEFORE I bought the Goose, and spent close to 10 minutes wandering around looking at bikes. Not a single person came up to talk to me - one guy was on the phone so he had a legitimate excuse (unless he was talking to his girlfriend). As I was walking towards my car parked in front of the shop, a guy came out and then realised I was leaving and turned and went back inside again. A month or so back - AFTER I had bought a new bike from somewhere else, I went in with my husband - what a different story! THREE people came up within minutes of us entering the shop!

Sorry, but you had your chance months ago. Walk into Sawyers, WMCC, Motorad and you get acknowledged (well, I get given hell!) - walk into this bike shop and unless you're a bloke, you get ignored. In my experience anyway.

[Skunk]

Yeah, I noticed that with some bike shops - you spend shit lots of money with them (OK - like $35k on bikes alone) and they say hello as you walk in the door.
But if you complain once you're invisible... :rofl:

[FROSTY]

I respectfully disagree - I worked at a workshop where the exact opposite of what you described occurred on a regular basis - help was always available for the little things.

The position you take is your choice. The nature of the regulation you describe is all well and good to bitch about when it impacts on the way you would otherwise choose to do business, but remember the boot is on the other foot when you've been treated shoddily and you have a comeback through the means listed. You have nothing to fear in business if you deal honestly and equitably IMHO.

Arguably compliance costs are an issue - but look at what happens when businesses get more of what they want in regulation - it isn't always a good thing: New Orleans for example - had chemical storage regulations been tighter to deal with the high likelihood of the disaster that occurred, there would be less of a chemical soup to deal with now...

My $0.02 - There are always two sides to every coin...

Cheer up Motu - We're lucky b*stards really - the country is still a great place! Its a great and beautiful land, and people make it greater still! (Usually...)
I agree with Motu the griumpy shit on this one.
The wonderfull country I remember has gone.People are happy to sue you for being helpfull.
Its a sad reflection on the way our society has gone

[el milanes]

I've been contacted by the manager of TSS who wanted to know exactly how it went. I explained and he said that I shouldn't have been sent off under those circumstances. But it's true that I arrived around 6pm, that means afterhours since they close at 5:30. He apologised anyway and was very helpful.
I apologised myself for not having talked to him before putting the thing on the forum.
My faith is restored and I'd be happy to return with my bike to TSS. :ride:

[skelstar]

Thats a good result. Its one in which (hopefully) everyone wins. Good on you too for not singeling them out by name when your faith in them was in question.

[gromit]

Great stuff. It's always good to get a positive resolution. Glad things have worked out for ya.

[MSTRS]

... most of us don't bite.... only one or two do...

:Oi: I resent that :devil2:

[zadok]

Welcome to K.B mate and good to hear things turned out ok.

[ManDownUnder]

... most of us don't bite.... only one or two do...

Yeah - some people SUCK...

but... that COULD be a good thing right?

[ManDownUnder]

I think it's worth mentioning there is a list of emergency contacts here on KB for help with stuff like this...

Not sure where to find it though (DOH) - can anyone helpout?

[Pixie]

This reminds me of a story about enthusiasm I read once.
An english Ferrari owner had engine trouble late at night while driving in northern Italy.He went to the nearest farmhouse to see if he could use the phone.The resident wasn't happy about being woken up, but once he realised it was a Ferrari,he took the motorist to his workshop,which was well equiped with machine tools, and spent several hours reproducing a workable replacement part.

It's a pity the guy in the bike shop didn't have the same attitude

PS. In southern Italy they'd kill you and steal the car.

[BNZ]

Sad isn't it? I own a workshop and do the same myself...refuse to help people over simple things,say I'm shut and close the door.

What happened to the world? Or more correctly to the wonderful country we knew? OSH,Consumer Rights,Small Claims Courts and every other sort of PC rubbish you can think off.No longer will a business put themselves out for a customer...not when there is the potential for the customer to turn around and take the business to court for something they asked the business to do in the first place.It makes me very upset to be an unhelpful sod and know they go away and tell everyone about that miserable prick down the road...not my choice,we've been backed into a corner - once again,the consumer pays.

Thats why you should all deal with Spectrum in Takapuna! These guys have helped me well after hours, even when it meant unpacking some tools etc that had all been put away for the day. Awesome team down there!

[el milanes]

In southern Italy they'd kill you and steal the car.

So would they in many other places. Btw, I'm from Italy :whistle:

And, I'd respectfully correct your signature:

Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch' entrate.

In the original it's:
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate (http://www.docushare.it/mediasoft/dante/pages/dantin03.htm) :niceone:

[Ixion]

I think it's worth mentioning there is a list of emergency contacts here on KB for help with stuff like this...

Not sure where to find it though (DOH) - can anyone helpout?

It's a sticky thread called "Members offering help" in General bike Stuff -> General Bike Ravings


here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=75015&postcount=2)

[Motu]

Thats why you should all deal with Spectrum in Takapuna! These guys have helped me well after hours, even when it meant unpacking some tools etc that had all been put away for the day. Awesome team down there!

I've helped people after hours too,lot's of times - one time I was helping a couple of guys outside one cold dark night,they were on their way up North and I just sorted a couple of small items for them - when they asked how much I said no worries,I'm happy to help....when I came back inside I found my till busted open and cleaned out,they were distracting me while their mate did the job - I can go on with many such tales,but don't need to.I've learnt my lesson,help is not appreciated,if they don't rip you off they moan,if they don't moan they'll stab you in the back with some Consumers Rights claim.

I've just come back from seeing my engine reconditioner...he's just come back from a court appearance - one of his customers who runs a workshop of good repute did a cambelt job on a dohc Legacy,I think it was tied up with another job they were doing.The only way to do a proper job on these is to do the works,cambelt,3 idlers,tensioner,silicon adjuster,water pump,cam and crank seals - of course that costs heaps,so the customer says the water pump had just been done,so don't replace it.Job done and out the door - 30,000km and the water pump fails,taking the cambelt and valves with it.Another garage picks up the repair and says the water pump should of been replaced when the belt was - so the owner is now sueing the first mechanic for doing what he was told,my engine guy being dragged along as he did the head repair.The first guy is told ''you should of known better'' than to not replace the pump....but if he did replace the pump against the owners wishes Consumer Rights would say he doesn't have to pay for work he didn't authorise - it's a lose lose situation for tradesmen,kinda scary wondering which job is going to come back and sting you.

[skelstar]

Im guessing in these situations a workshop manager would require the customer to sign something that would say 'I understand that it was recomemmended that i replace blahblah but have decided to for go these replacements'...blah blah. Its a bit anal and a pity but this is indicative of the consumer society these days etc I suppose?

[Motu]

Oh yes,done all the time - but the onus is still on the tradesman - ''he should know better'' than to do sub quality work,even if the customer signs a form saying it's ok by him.You can't opt out of your contract...but of course if we all did that we'd get no work,so we just hope customers are honest and don't go back on their word.Here's one we did yesterday....

A Series I Pajero with oil leaking from the rear diff housing - it has a big crack,about 200mm long.10 yrs ago we would just weld that up,but these days?? Oh boy,that's a hot potato,a structural suspension part,we can no longer repair these things,it has to be repaired by someone approved by LTNZ with a 4711 welding ticket.I try to source a housing from a dismantler,but none are available,the ones I can get will be $900.The customer doesn't want to pay that much money,he wants me to just weld it up.I have a yarn to my friend who is a welder on transport equipment and we decide it's not really load bearing.I explain to the customer that I really don't want to do it and what could possibly happen to me if the shit hits the fan - ''oh no,I wouldn't come back at you,I'm just happy for you repair it for me without spending too much money''.So we remove the housing and gut it,V the crack and I weld it up,then it's all put back together.It's a million to one chance of anything happening,I'm confident in my repair,after all it's what I'm trained to do,it's my job - or atleast it was until consumer Rights came along.But.....??

[Lou Girardin]

When tradesmen outnumbered lawyers, this didn't happen. Now.....................

[Ixion]

Oh yes,done all the time - but the onus is still on the tradesman - ''he should know better'' than to do sub quality work,even if the customer signs a form saying it's ok by him.You can't opt out of your contract...but of course if we all did that we'd get no work,so we just hope customers are honest and don't go back on their word.Here's one we did yesterday....

A Series I Pajero with oil leaking from the rear diff housing - it has a big crack,about 200mm long.10 yrs ago we would just weld that up,but these days?? Oh boy,that's a hot potato,a structural suspension part,we can no longer repair these things,it has to be repaired by someone approved by LTNZ with a 4711 welding ticket.I try to source a housing from a dismantler,but none are available,the ones I can get will be $900.The customer doesn't want to pay that much money,he wants me to just weld it up.I have a yarn to my friend who is a welder on transport equipment and we decide it's not really load bearing.I explain to the customer that I really don't want to do it and what could possibly happen to me if the shit hits the fan - ''oh no,I wouldn't come back at you,I'm just happy for you repair it for me without spending too much money''.So we remove the housing and gut it,V the crack and I weld it up,then it's all put back together.It's a million to one chance of anything happening,I'm confident in my repair,after all it's what I'm trained to do,it's my job - or atleast it was until consumer Rights came along.But.....??


I'm glad I can do my own welding. But what would be the position on a WOF if someone else, in the future, notices the welded up housing ? for the customer (no WOF for you ?) and you (Who did this ?)

[el milanes]

I've learnt my lesson,help is not appreciated,if they don't rip you off they moan,if they don't moan they'll stab you in the back with some Consumers Rights claim.

Your stories are quite scary! have you had good customers anytimes?

[Motu]

I'm glad I can do my own welding. But what would be the position on a WOF if someone else, in the future, notices the welded up housing ? for the customer (no WOF for you ?) and you (Who did this ?)

Well,for a start my welding looks better than the factory job,I think that's why they crack.But yes,that's how it happens - follow the trail passing the buck until you find someone to take the whole blame,that's how these new systems work.

[Ixion]

Well,for a start my welding looks better than the factory job,I think that's why they crack.But yes,that's how it happens - follow the trail passing the buck until you find someone to take the whole blame,that's how these new systems work.

Oh, so it was the original welding had cracked around the weld line ? Not a crack from dropping onto Big BadAss Rock somewhere ? I guess a rewelded weld is less likely to attract attention.

[Motu]

have you had good customers anytimes?

Heaps!! That's what I love about my job,when someone appreciates what I do for them.It's a pity that some people,from all walks of life,see only negatives.''Hey,you fixed my flat tyre yesterday,now it's gone flat again,it was on the motorway and now the tyre is destroyed! You have to put a new tyre on because it's your fault!''

Yeah,but I fixed the left front,that's the left rear....

What I'm getting at is this is the sort of attitude out there these days,and I see it everyday on this forum - someone is to blame,it's someones fault,someones responsability....everyone is on the defensive,and that puts everyone else on the defensive.OK,you see it as normal,but for those of us from an older generation it undercuts the basic values we came into this world around,it's almost an ailien world out there.

[el milanes]

I suppose for cars there's a lot more competition, here in Lower Hutt I can't count the service stations.
I've changed a few, not because I haven't been serviced well, but of course because you always try to get the best value out of your money.
With motorbikes it's different, there's just a little competion, but everything is much more expensive, so you expect a good service. Also you get to know people you deal with better because there are less of us around. I think that's a good thing.
And finally we all learn. We start with small, cheap, old motorbikes. But one day maybe we'll be able to afford a Ducati. So there's a potential for each customer, even the one with the crappy japanese bike.
But hey, when I had it serviced the first time I had to give them $600 :devil2: !! so, who says that little bikes have little running costs!?

[madboy]

It's good to hear that TSS came to the party. It was a surprise for me to hear this story to begin with. I guess everyone has an off day. Always been top blokes for me to deal with, even before I started parting with serious money. What I particularly like is that they understand me... they know that I've got no desire to part with any cash I don't have to, and they know I'm more than willing to ignore even the best of advice when it doesn't suit my own selfish interests. And yet they still talk to me :)

I guess this thread really proves the theory - one dissatisfied customer tells XX people, who tell XXXX people etc etc... A message that most shop owners, Stew in particular, will be well aware of.

[skelstar]

I like that they show me how to do rudimentary maintenance when im a complete noob. Ta guys!