CB1300 - charge, charge where for art thou charge?

[Big Dog]

After 20,000 kms without missing a beat the beast has died.
Twice in one day with different symptoms.
Clock reset last night and this morning during start up. Slow and laboured but started. Both times started ok after running for a while.

Static battery 12.5 volts.
Key on 12
Running 13.1
3k 13.5
I have not repeated with new battery.

Battery tested shit so I with great relief replaced it.

Rode from Penrose to Harrisville. Lights dim and the bike starts stuttering.

Raise the revs a little to smooth it out and all of the dash except the time goes off.

No charge when I tried to start it. Bump starts okay after a brief wait. Same problem returns.

Any ideas?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

Reg rect could be down a phase, run through the fault finding flow chart if you can work a dmm

[nzspokes]

Its a Honda.

I would have thought the answer was obvious to somebody thats worked in a bike shop.....

[Big Dog]

Its a Honda.

I would have thought the answer was obvious to somebody thats worked in a bike shop.....

Erm, that was years ago...

At the moment it seems like I might have exceeded the maximum allowable mileage for a Honda without breaking down?

[Big Dog]

Reg rect could be down a phase, run through the fault finding flow chart if you can work a dmm
I just found the one in this thread... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps?p=1130796443#post1130796443. Looks like I will be reaquainting myself with a multimeter when the battery has finished charging.

[Gremlin]

Clock/trip reset on the CB900 is indicative of needing a new battery, had it during winter... Wouldn't happen all the time, but became more frequent, basically the voltage dropping that far while starting the bike.

Have you tested the new battery? Rare, but they can be faulty...

Otherwise, sorry, I'm definitely not a mechanic :sweatdrop

[Ender EnZed]

Reg/rec.

Whoever is responsible for them at Honda has been sleeping with the boss for 30 years.

[Big Dog]

Clock/trip reset on the CB900 is indicative of needing a new battery, had it during winter... Wouldn't happen all the time, but became more frequent, basically the voltage dropping that far while starting the bike.

Have you tested the new battery? Rare, but they can be faulty...

Otherwise, sorry, I'm definitely not a mechanic :sweatdrop

Definitely relieved to hear that.

Seems the faulty part was me. :facepalm:

Yesterday I left the bike with a mate and borrowed his bike to get to work while he set about confirming it was just the battery. He had left stator connector disconnnected to show me how to test. Given he had gone back to work from home for me to collect the bike I had rushed through fitting the new battery. Rushed to the point he forgot to show me. :crazy:

Last night in the shadows of a poorly lit garage even looking for a loose connection I did not find it. Today in daylight it stands out like a dogs bollocks...

I am somewhat impressed that I made it home now that I know I was not storing any power. Pretty much all of Harrisville road from the first konk out to home on an already dead battery... heres hoping I have not killed it completely... the charger is still showing charging this morning.

Now for the Hey Zeus test. can I ride it to work.:scooter:

[insomnia01]

same thing has just happened to my Blackbird :angry: Biketranz should be delivering it @ the end of the week ( broke down in Welly long way from the Waikato ) thought I best do something about it.....305903 expense fix I no but ......

[Big Dog]

Reg/rec.

Whoever is responsible for them at Honda has been sleeping with the boss for 30 years.

Outside of relatives I've never known anyone 30 years. :ew:


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

same thing has just happened to my Blackbird :angry: Biketranz should be delivering it @ the end of the week ( broke down in Welly long way from the Waikato ) thought I best do something about it.....305903 expense fix I no but ......

Battery dead or no charging?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[nzspokes]

Standard Honda fault.

[insomnia01]

Battery dead or no charging?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

battery was showing 10v & got lower as it went, now fully charged showing 12.5V on idle but will be sending to shop to test all systems & fit new battery just in case

[Big Dog]

Standard Honda fault.

Very vague.
Are you suggesting user error is a standard Honda fault? That was after all the cause of the second error.
Or the failure of the incorrect fitment battery that was the cause for the first error. Apparently it should be a gel battery, a prior owner had just plugged the breather on a maintenance free lead acid variant of a cheap and nasty brand. Not good for a battery that lives on its side in a cavity without drains. Lucky it never leaked.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

battery was showing 10v & got lower as it went, now fully charged showing 12.5V on idle but will be sending to shop to test all systems & fit new battery just in case

There is a pretty good testing guide in the link above. I had never done it before myself but it is very similar to what my mechanic said he did. I pay my mechanic by fixing his PCs. Had I seen this chart before I started I might have been more inclined to do it myself.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[AllanB]

I just knew it was not the Honda.

[bogan]

There is a pretty good testing guide in the link above. I had never done it before myself but it is very similar to what my mechanic said he did. I pay my mechanic by fixing his PCs. Had I seen this chart before I started I might have been more inclined to do it myself.

It's a very good chart, and very comprehensive to fault find too.


battery was showing 10v & got lower as it went, now fully charged showing 12.5V on idle but will be sending to shop to test all systems & fit new battery just in case

12.5 at idle sounds quite low.

[Big Dog]

It's a very good chart, and very comprehensive to fault find too.



12.5 at idle sounds quite low.

I may be wrong but I thought 12 -12.5 should be static. (Key off but everything connected.)
13.5-15.5 depending on RPMs.

A huge clue on bigger bikes is if your head light dims on roll off your battery is dead or dying, (rolling off from 4k - 3k, not from 2 k to idle) the Hayabusa used to cough a little when you did that on a dying battery. Having replaced it 3 times and living with it for 3 months because I was too broke to not this was all too familiar when I experienced it on a black bird and again on a ZX14 I was borrowing. Both took back to the person lending and had them test the battery. both came back faulty. Neither held a proper head of charge.
E.g both would show fully charged with good voltage after a decent rid but 2 hours later would only show about 10V.

[Big Dog]

I just knew it was not the Honda.

I had hoped not... Main reason fore buying a grandpa bike was supposed to be their reliability.
I was just trying to work out what they were vague posting about.

[nzspokes]

I just knew it was not the Honda.

Had a look at the wiring coming from your rectifier recently? Nice and crispy?:msn-wink:

[AllanB]

Had a look at the wiring coming from your rectifier recently? Nice and crispy?:msn-wink:

What you talk of crazy man? Ma wires are sweet as the day some hot Japanese girl wired them up.

Hmmmmmmm hot Japanses girl working on motorcycles ...........

[nzspokes]

What you talk of crazy man? Ma wires are sweet as the day some hot Japanese girl wired them up.

Hmmmmmmm hot Japanses girl working on motorcycles ...........

I thought Hornets were built in Italy? I could well be wrong on this.

[AllanB]

I thought Hornets were built in Italy? I could well be wrong on this.

Hmmm vaguley remember something about that when researching them pre purchase. Can't remember if build or designed (styled) in Italy. If built then my electrics are possibly doomed. Can't be true though as none of the bolts have rusted to shit after having a sneeze in the garage.

Mmmmmmm attractive Italian girl bent over a drawing board designing motorcycles ..............

[nzspokes]

Hmmm vaguley remember something about that when researching them pre purchase. Can't remember if build or designed (styled) in Italy. If built then my electrics are possibly doomed. Can't be true though as none of the bolts have rusted to shit after having a sneeze in the garage.

Mmmmmmm attractive Italian girl bent over a drawing board designing motorcycles ..............

Well the frame is made of Mozzarella. :laugh:

[AllanB]

Well the frame is made of Mozzarella. :laugh:

MMmmm Mozzarella prepared by a hot Italian girl ............. sticky

[Big Dog]

After 20,000 kms without missing a beat the beast has died.
Twice in one day with different symptoms.
Clock reset last night and this morning during start up. Slow and laboured but started. Both times started ok after running for a while.

Static battery 12.5 volts.
Key on 12
Running 13.1
3k 13.5
I have not repeated with new battery.

Battery tested shit so I with great relief replaced it.

Rode from Penrose to Harrisville. Lights dim and the bike starts stuttering.

Raise the revs a little to smooth it out and all of the dash except the time goes off.

No charge when I tried to start it. Bump starts okay after a brief wait. Same problem returns.

Any ideas?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Mudder Far Car!
So six months on and back to square one. different symptoms but same result.
Dead battery. At least it charges off a charger and holds charge now.
Whoever started the myth Hondas are reliable needs a body slam!

Based on the static vs. dynamic test the stator is dying...
Reg Rec tests clean but when doing the running test on the stator across poles A,B and C I get 8-11 volts at idle. 8 being any combination involving pole B, at 3500 it becomes 4-18v.
She's dead or dying Jim.


Any recommendation regarding where to buy a stator?
After market is fine as long it is the same or higher quality and plug and play.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Reg/rec.

Whoever is responsible for them at Honda has been sleeping with the boss for 30 years.

my first thought too. then maybe earthing and/or alternator. But Honda is famous for making reg/recs out of chocolate. I was reading a KB post recently about someone who had the genius idea of mounting a PC cooling fan on their reg/rec.... Often when you google it there is a known fault, and a known good replacement: eg the VFR400 one the hot fix is a CBR600 reg rec.

[Big Dog]

my first thought too. then maybe earthing and/or alternator. But Honda is famous for making reg/recs out of chocolate. I was reading a KB post recently about someone who had the genius idea of mounting a PC cooling fan on their reg/rec.... Often when you google it there is a known fault, and a known good replacement: eg the VFR400 one the hot fix is a CBR600 reg rec.

With regard to the regulator rectifier at least this one is mounted outside the seat cowl... should be getting plenty cold enough. Sits between the chassis and the back wheel.
Reg Rec tests fine.
Stator tests dead.

Both parts rate poorly on international forums.
Recommended fix on international forums for both is to buy aftermarket.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB1300-SuperFour-2005-2007-Stator-Lichtmaschine-CB1300-Super-Four-Neu-/260955669029?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item3cc22b8225&vxp=mtr for the stator... but out of my league so have ordered an OEM one for the same delivery period for half the money.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regulator-Rectifier-Fits-Honda-CB-1300-F3-F13-Super-Four-5-6-Superfour-Black-K-/361211783103?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5419e667bf&vxp=mtr for the rectifier, at the $200 off of a local OEM one and the supposed reliablity difference strongly considering getting one to hang in the garage for the day I need it.

[nzspokes]

A guy in beachaven rewinds them. Cheap I hear to. don't know his name.

[Big Dog]

Might do that with the old one given Hondas reputation with stators.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/340eb718f92579fff801e15fc19ed5c4.jpg

That appears to be the cause of the second show stopper for the CB1300.

Monday I finally got the part,Yesterday I finally got the time to do the most invasive work I have ever done on a registered bike. Symptoms gone.
Shame I haven't had a chance to test ride it. Fingers crossed it survives being "test ridden" to work.

Bloody lucky I didn't listen to the parts guy who thought I was being over zealous ordering a new gasket before I knew the old one has survived or not.

In general though big thumbs up to counties Honda. Good turn around and food service at lower than Auckland prices.

Hard to say if it was the oil change etc or the stator but it is definitely running smoother than I have ever heard from her before.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[pete376403]

With regard to the regulator rectifier at least this one is mounted outside the seat cowl... should be getting plenty cold enough. Sits between the chassis and the back wheel.
Reg Rec tests fine.
Stator tests dead.

.
GS Suzukis are renowned for crap charging systems. The R/R is located under the battery box, just ahead of the rear wheel. I have extended the cables and mounted the R/R just under the steering head for additional cooling. Also keep the oil level up, as the stator cooling is assisted by oil flow inside the housing. Both these things seem to have work as both the stator and R/R are original (1982)

[Blackbird]

Might do that with the old one given Hondas reputation with stators.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

My Blackbird stator failed and I had it re-wound by a chap in Hamilton who had a good reputation. It lasted until I sold the bike a year later but IIRC, failed a year after that on the chap that bought it. Honda supposedly fixed the problem post-2002 but there were still failures. JAWS Blackbird Motorcycle Spares UK, the Blackbird specialist; offered an uprated design and I've never heard of one of them failing. Sounds like Honda San still hasn't caught up with specialist manufacturers!