Scooters are depressing

[corsaro128]

Hi all, new member here.

*sad violin music*

I've been riding a soul crushing Piaggio MP3 250 for 3 months racking up 7300km already. Ive had 5 motorcycles before but got this thinking I'd save some money. Now I'm selling it and buying an 08 z750 on Monday. I just can't take riding it anymore. It not safe like you would think. Sure it stops well in the wet and dry but I think because the engine is in the back and two front wheels dispersing the weight, its front end is non existent. It freaks me out hitting a small bump mid corner to have the bike wobble and waft around under you. I have noticed its hard to get a wave from other bikers! If there is a big group the only guy to wave will be the guy at the back because if the guy at the front waves everybodys going to call him man lover.
It sucks riding in these winds (50-90kph). I get knocked down to 80kph all the time. 130kph is as fast as she goes. Can't hear the engine at speed. Donkey balls.

New z750 is going to be so gud!

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. all of that. Scooters are shit !!!

Have fun on the z750 ... I'm sure you will ove it after the scooter - and remember it has a lot more grunt ..

[frogfeaturesFZR]

and I thought you were an aprilia / Griso fan !

[FJRider]

It freaks me out hitting a small bump mid corner to have the bike wobble and waft around under you. I have noticed its hard to get a wave from other bikers!

It sucks riding in these winds (50-90kph). I get knocked down to 80kph all the time. 130kph is as fast as she goes. Can't hear the engine at speed. Donkey balls.

New z750 is going to be so gud!

Buy a Harley ... the only difference you'll notice ... is when you have to push it (or it falls onto you)

[Maha]

83% of all scooters are owned by fucking annoying goofy looking shit bags... with no regard/respect for their own life or those they share the road with, the rest are owned by people as a two wheeled cop out before purchasing something to be proud of. Enjoy the Z750, nice bikes.

[Akzle]

i don't know what the fuck i just read. try lerning sum gooder engrish.
but, uhh, bike > scooter, all the time.

[rastuscat]

i don't know what the fuck i just read. try lerning sum gooder engrish.
but, uhh, bike > scooter, all the time.

Been have Engrish lessons have we Skoober?

[awa355]

Here's a new concept. The U turns at 1.46 show its quite stable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2OJa-vWEaE&feature=youtu.be

[pritch]

The OP is right, scooters are depressing. I sold mine and that's depressing. :whistle:

[husaberg]

....................................
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/2d/e6/3b/2de63b3b3604bbd8152cf7b6930231bd.jpghttp://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/95/b9/dc/95b9dc7f06d45e73c5c92f0f43a960f4.jpg

[Mike.Gayner]

83% of all scooters are owned by fucking annoying goofy looking shit bags... with no regard/respect for their own life or those they share the road with, the rest are owned by people as a two wheeled cop out before purchasing something to be proud of. Enjoy the Z750, nice bikes.

Pretty much this. Scooters are fucking gay, as are the people that ride them.

[husaberg]

Pretty much this. Scooters are fucking gay, as are the people that ride them.

Shit I just realised, what if you have a Honda Scooter.......

[Swoop]

Shit I just realised, what if you have a Honda Scooter.......

Two negatives = a positive.
iirc from maffs klass.



Here's a new concept. The U turns at 1.46 show its quite stable.
Perfect for Jeremy Clarkson!

[husaberg]

Two negatives = a positive.
iirc from maffs klass.

Perfect for Jeremy Clarkson!

So if it is a Pink Honda scooter then back to square one?

306093

[jasonu]

I bought a scooter myself to make my 750 last longer while I was paying off my mortgage and would have to agree I never felt as safe on that as my 750 and ended up being knocked off it by a car doing a U turn.

Maybe you should enroll in a riding skills course.

[unstuck]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kHfJL5c2NCY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:scooter::scooter::scooter:

[Swoop]

So if it is a Pink Honda scooter then back to square one?
Fucked if I know! That's algebra.:eek5:

[Voltaire]

I had a Yamaha 1987 something 200 that I got for 3 hundy and rode it to work for months, lots of fun, sold it for 8 hundy.
Dragged of 50cc scooters easily.
50cc engines are for weed eaters.

[neels]

When I was riding a scooter, briefly, I felt like a moving target for the other fucktards on the road. So much more secure with a bit of horsepower to get out of trouble if needed.

[speedpro]

I thought long and hard before buying my scooter and even after getting it was having 2nd thoughts, until about the 2nd day in commuter traffic down Te Atatu Rd and the NW motorway. The thing was perfect. The seating position at commuter speed up to about 90KmH is just what's needed to keep an eye out for dumbarse car drivers and other hazards. I've got close to 30K on the clock now but use it only now and again now as I can walk to work.
I don't think many scooterists would call an MP3 a scooter. That's just a farked up barsteward of a thing.

I did think now and then I could use more power but with a top speed of about 105kmh it wasn't a real problem in commuter traffic. It still ended up with essentially a Taiwanese 200cc scooter racing engine and taller gearing. Now it's good for 135KmH limited by the rev limiter and gets there pretty quick.

[Akzle]

Don't you mean the car driver should enrol in a driving skills course??? THEY were in the wrong!!!

right of way is a great idea.
I hope it keeps you warm while youre in traction for 6 months.

[jasonu]

Don't you mean the car driver should enrol in a driving skills course??? THEY were in the wrong!!!


right of way is a great idea.
I hope it keeps you warm while youre in traction for 6 months.

No matter who might be in the wrong, you as the motorcyclist will almost always come off 2nd best.

[pritch]

Fucked if I know! That's algebra.:eek5:

If the square was on the hypotenuse it would be geometry.

[Swoop]

If the square was on the ...
That's carpentry!

[corsaro128]

306227


Today I bought a Shoei Qwest helmet $550 from Emoto, Draggin Jeans (Oilskin) from the Rolling Thunder 330ish?, Berik boots $299 from Norjo and a X-ring DID and sprocket set for $280, $80 fitted (i know....)

[unstuck]

306227


Today I bought a Shoei Qwest helmet $550 from Emoto, Draggin Jeans (Oilskin) from the Rolling Thunder 330ish?, Berik boots $299 from Norjo and a X-ring DID and sprocket set for $280, $80 fitted (i know....)

Do a skid.:2thumbsup

[Akzle]

So the course by your reasoning then should be to give up motorcycling completely so we can never come off second best.

no, you fucking moron.

just dont count 'right of way' as a given.

[rastuscat]

no, you fucking moron.

just dont count 'right of way' as a given.

Interesting. I had a chance encounter today with someone who agrees with you.

Two cars turning into a 1 way street from opposite direction. The one way was 2 lanes, so theoretically the car turning left takes the left lane, the car turning right takes the right lane. no ROW conflict.

But the woman turning left turned right out onto the right hand lane, oh so common in our city. She forced the car turning legally and correctly into that lane to brake to avoid hitting her.

Disco lights came on, as did the bells. The first thing she said was that under the new rules, she had right of way.

HAS OUR WHOLE BLOODY COUNTRY FORGOTTEN THAT WE HAVE TO TURN INTO THE NEAR LANE WHEN TURNING???? Right of way isn't everything.

It's a pity that the defensive driver has to allow for the piss poor driving of the rest (who all consider themselves to be good drivers.)

Off topic, sorry.

[rastuscat]

right of way is a great idea.
I hope it keeps you warm while youre in traction for 6 months.

Nice one, Centurion.

[Akzle]

Interesting. I had a chance encounter today with someone who agrees with you.

Two cars turning into a 1 way street from opposite direction. The one way was 2 lanes, so theoretically the car turning left takes the left lane, the car turning right takes the right lane. no ROW conflict.

But the woman turning left turned right out onto the right hand lane, oh so common in our city. She forced the car turning legally and correctly into that lane to brake to avoid hitting her.

Disco lights came on, as did the bells. The first thing she said was that under the new rules, she had right of way.

HAS OUR WHOLE BLOODY COUNTRY FORGOTTEN THAT WE HAVE TO TURN INTO THE NEAR LANE WHEN TURNING???? Right of way isn't everything.

It's a pity that the defensive driver has to allow for the piss poor driving of the rest (who all consider themselves to be good drivers.)

Off topic, sorry.

i hope you impounded her vehicle and took her license and tasered her a bit.
Anything less and you aint safening no fuken community.

[rastuscat]

i hope you impounded her vehicle and took her license and tasered her a bit.
Anything less and you aint safening no fuken community.

She got the full weight of the law. $150. Well, actually, I think it has nil demerits, but that's an NZTA thing. Boy, is THAT another subject.

[Akzle]

She got the full weight of the law. $150. Well, actually, I think it has nil demerits, but that's an NZTA thing. Boy, is THAT another subject.

i fucking love road safety.

[rastuscat]

i fucking love road safety.

Me too. Worry not Skoober, the inequities frustrate me every hour of every day.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHH..............why do I keep calling you Skoober..................sorry to both of you

[ICE180]

bike v scooter is a mind set

I use both to ride to work and on long rides
round town the scooter is soo much better than the bike smaller lighter etc..
the bike I have just as much fun in town but I have to take a back pack with me every where if I waht to pick anything up

but my scooter is not a standard scooter anymore :2thumbsup ands Its a 2T so I love the smell
I think its best to have at least 2 or 3 of each so you can work out whats best

[Akzle]

Me too. Worry not Skoober, the inequities frustrate me every hour of every day.

you should smoke some weed and chill out.

[unstuck]

i hope you impounded her vehicle and took her license and tasered her a bit.
Anything less and you aint safening no fuken community.

Just seen a fella in town get peppered and his takeaway dumped all over the ground in the middle of our main street. Must not have been wearing his seatbelt.:2thumbsup

[unstuck]

you should smoke some weed and chill out.

Must spread.:2thumbsup

[Akzle]

Just seen a fella in town get peppered and his takeaway dumped all over the ground in the middle of our main street. Must not have been wearing his seatbelt.:2thumbsup

that shit livens up a curry like nothing else.

Also gets you a bit high.
Mmmmm. Piperazine.

[pritch]

That's carpentry!

Pythagorus was a car painter?

[rastuscat]

you should smoke some weed and chill out.

Sound career advice,that.

[unstuck]

that shit livens up a curry like nothing else.


Makes me want to keep my head in a bucket of water for half an hour is all, and I hate the snots you get afterwards.:innocent:

[Akzle]

Sound career advice,that.

i fuken reckon. If more people took it on, i might not be so opposed to society.

Be the change rastu, be the change.

[unstuck]

Sound career advice,that.

Theres a lot further up than you, partake of da erb. :shifty:

[Akzle]

Makes me want to keep my head in a bucket of water for half an hour is all, and I hate the snots you get afterwards.:innocent:

snort some buffalo yak yoghurt stuff, get that mucous lining going.*



*will not save you from the ring of fire the next day.

[Akzle]

Theres a lot further up than you, partake of da erb. :shifty:

fucken worse. Those pricks can afford the good (schedule A controlled substance) shit. And can afford to get away with it.
Fuken jew fucks.

[unstuck]

fucken worse. Those pricks can afford the good (schedule A controlled substance) shit. And can afford to get away with it.
Fuken jew fucks.

Ah, thats just the jealousy talking. I know what you mean about them having access to the good shit though. Got offered some lines from a high ranking officer one night at an angels party in waipu cove. Fucker made me nervous as hell.:eek5:

[pritch]

you should smoke some weed and chill out.

That's what he does while you think he's eating donuts. The donuts come later when the munchies cut in.

[unstuck]

That's what he does while you think he's eating donuts. The donuts come later when the munchies cut in.

Mmmmmmmm, donuts. :drool::drool::drool: Bastard, got the munchies now.

[Akzle]

vicious cycle... Havin the hash hungries.
When all you have to eat is hash brownies.

[Akzle]

i had a fair decent coffee donut today, an' all.

[Akzle]

Ah, thats just the jealousy talking. I know what you mean about them having access to the good shit though. Got offered some lines from a high ranking officer one night at an angels party in waipu cove. Fucker made me nervous as hell.:eek5:

meh. Ive taken drugs with people from the homeless (hardly worth it) to famous nz people (like their amphetamines they do), to unfamous but exceedingly wealthy folk (50/50 some of them wouldnt know good dope if you shot it through their eyeball)

being said. The cops take a lot of the top shelf, but only from blacks. And the difference between whats taken vs whats presented at court, is... Revealing.

[unstuck]

meh. Ive taken drugs with people from the homeless (hardly worth it) to famous nz people (like their amphetamines they do), to unfamous but exceedingly wealthy folk (50/50 some of them wouldnt know good dope if you shot it through their eyeball)

being said. The cops take a lot of the top shelf, but only from blacks. And the difference between whats taken vs whats presented at court, is... Revealing.

I aint black, and they took some good shit of mine. Got caught with 7 oz's and got charged in court for 3 oz's. Bloody thieves, cannot trust nobody.:oi-grr:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi all, new member here.

*sad violin music*

I've been riding a soul crushing Piaggio MP3 250 for 3 months racking up 7300km already. Ive had 5 motorcycles before but got this thinking I'd save some money. Now I'm selling it and buying an 08 z750 on Monday. I just can't take riding it anymore. It not safe like you would think. Sure it stops well in the wet and dry but I think because the engine is in the back and two front wheels dispersing the weight, its front end is non existent. It freaks me out hitting a small bump mid corner to have the bike wobble and waft around under you. I have noticed its hard to get a wave from other bikers! If there is a big group the only guy to wave will be the guy at the back because if the guy at the front waves everybodys going to call him man lover.
It sucks riding in these winds (50-90kph). I get knocked down to 80kph all the time. 130kph is as fast as she goes. Can't hear the engine at speed. Donkey balls.

New z750 is going to be so gud!

I'd probably give you $500 for the MP3. And a bag of chips. cash money.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Interesting. I had a chance encounter today with someone who agrees with you.

Two cars turning into a 1 way street from opposite direction. The one way was 2 lanes, so theoretically the car turning left takes the left lane, the car turning right takes the right lane. no ROW conflict.

But the woman turning left turned right out onto the right hand lane, oh so common in our city. She forced the car turning legally and correctly into that lane to brake to avoid hitting her.

Disco lights came on, as did the bells. The first thing she said was that under the new rules, she had right of way.

HAS OUR WHOLE BLOODY COUNTRY FORGOTTEN THAT WE HAVE TO TURN INTO THE NEAR LANE WHEN TURNING???? Right of way isn't everything.

It's a pity that the defensive driver has to allow for the piss poor driving of the rest (who all consider themselves to be good drivers.)

Off topic, sorry.

did she have mad cans?

[Big Dog]

Obviously not. She got a ticket.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Berries]

So you stop for both green and red lights then? With doing that you run the risk of being rear ended by others who do not think like you. Sounds like you should not be riding at all if you have that much fear. You are the fucking moron.
You're like an old record at times, an old record stuck to the turntable. "Don't count 'right of way' as a given" is the soundest advice a rider can get and if people actually had that thought in their heads when out and about there would be a lot less of them sliding down the road or coming to a rapid stop in the front wing of a car. I don't know why you need to try and pick holes in it.

[haydes55]

I still stand by what I said in that having an attitude like that will end up seeing you rear ended as not all motorists will think the same way when you decide to brake in front of them on the odd chance someone may not give way to you coming out of a side street or through a red light. There is some merit to it if you have no one behind you perhaps but I would give up riding if I thought it was too dangerous to enter any intersection without slowing or stopping where I had right of way.


Need more face to go with the amount of palm I'm giving it.

[unstuck]

Need more face to go with the amount of palm I'm giving it.

Surprised you could get your palm off your cock long enough.:bleh::whistle:

[Akzle]

id stop at a green light if there was someone clearly about to fuck my day up.
I ignore red lights.

Rastarse's post about women not having a fucking clue how to drive, yet being allowed to, exemplifies my point. If the situationally aware hadnt forfeited right of way, there would have been a collision.

[jasonu]

So the course by your reasoning then should be to give up motorcycling completely so we can never come off second best.

That would certainly reduce your risk of getting flattened by some cunt in a car.

[jasonu]

So you stop for both green and red lights then? With doing that you run the risk of being rear ended by others who do not think like you. Sounds like you should not be riding at all if you have that much fear. You are the fucking moron.

You have to be trolling. Surely no one is that Fucking thick.

[James Deuce]

Need more face to go with the amount of palm I'm giving it.

I'd give you some of mine, but I seem have lost a lot of it lately.

[unstuck]

Surely no one is that Fucking thick.

Oh I think you may be surprised.:devil2:

[James Deuce]

You have to be trolling. Surely no one is that Fucking thick.

No, no, this one is serious.

[James Deuce]

You were the fucking thick one that said that people should give way when they have right of way. You aren't the dude on here who feels all motorists should be able to read the minds of other motorists so they stay safe are you?

Being right about the road rules when interred 6ft under in a cemetary plot is still dead.

[James Deuce]

You're being a dick for no reason. There are plenty of instances where I've "given way" when I wasn't legally required to. I will never ever trust another motorist and will err on the side of caution. You are less likely to be struck from behind than to run into a vehicle turning right out of a side street across your path. It is not "unworkable" to look out for your own safety at all times. Blindly following road rules that very few road users know implicitly is a recipe for disaster. Observation followed by an appropriate response are rules number 1 and 2. How you achieve that requires practice and the maintenance of riding and observation skills all done with goal of never arriving at the same place and time as another vehicle.

[unstuck]

You're being a dick for no reason. There are plenty of instances where I've "given way" when I wasn't legally required to. I will never ever trust another motorist and will err on the side of caution. You are less likely to be struck from behind than to run into a vehicle turning right out of a side street across your path. It is not "unworkable" to look out for your own safety at all times. Blindly following road rules that very few road users know implicitly is a recipe for disaster. Observation followed by an appropriate response are rules number 1 and 2. How you achieve that requires practice and the maintenance of riding and observation skills all done with goal of never arriving at the same place and time as another vehicle.

:first::niceone:

[HenryDorsetCase]

So is OP considering my offer, or what?

FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS

[Big Dog]

Just to add fuel to the flames. My last 2 car accidents were at the same set of lights. Both times if the person had paid attention to the horn approaching from their right over the green light in front of them they would have had a much better day.
One would have seen the falcon aqua planing at about 45 km diagonally into the intersection instead of pulling out for me to hit I could have slid through the intersection recovered control and carried on. But because she cared more about her green light than the safety of her unborn baby both our days were ruined.

The second would have seen a giant 4x4 tyre that had just sheared the nuts off the hub bouncing down the road and let it carry on toward the hedge. Instead she pulled out into the path of the approaching air horns. Let's just say the wheel made short work of her b pillar.

My grand father and father always repeated the following when driving and something came up meaning they went against the accepted rules.

Boy, always remember: many a man has lost his life defending his right of way.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Banditbandit]

So if it is a Pink Honda scooter then back to square one?




Yeah ... heterosexual cars fuck pink scooters all the time ..

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tWqvsW7WRl0/TGyhhnNBfdI/AAAAAAAAYBc/LFHKD8LdWek/s640/Speeding+Car+vs.+Rear+Ended+Cut+Off+Motor+Scooter+ 1.jpg





Today I bought a Shoei Qwest helmet $550 from Emoto, Draggin Jeans (Oilskin) from the Rolling Thunder 330ish?, Berik boots $299 from Norjo and a X-ring DID and sprocket set for $280, $80 fitted (i know....)

And the bike ???


Pythagorus was a car painter?

Pythagorus = dead geek


vicious cycle... Havin the hash hungries.
When all you have to eat is hash brownies.

And that is a problem because?

[James Deuce]

You should definitely give up riding if you feel you can not trust any other motorist as what are you doing when you travel down the road and there are cars coming the other way. You are trusting them to not cross the centre line and hit you and they are trusting you not to cross the centre line and hit them. I rest my case.

Not ever. Correct, I'm not. They shouldn't. You don't have a case. You have blind faith.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Five hundred dollars

[Big Dog]

You should definitely give up riding if you feel you can not trust any other motorist as what are you doing when you travel down the road and there are cars coming the other way. You are trusting them to not cross the centre line and hit you and they are trusting you not to cross the centre line and hit them. I rest my case.
I never blindly trust others. I always take responsibility for my actions.

Hope and faith are two different things.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

I don't think you are aware of it but yes you (we) do place trust in other motorists on the road and I gave the example of trusting cars going the other way not to cross the centre line and hit you. Good luck with however you think when on the road.

I am aware that some people think like that. I don't. Every interaction with another vehicle on the road is tempered by, "Where's my escape route?" That doesn't render my argument invalid. Luck is irrelevant and a fantasy. There's no point being right and dead.

[Big Dog]

I don't think you are aware of it but yes you (we) do place trust in other motorists on the road and I gave the example of trusting cars going the other way not to cross the centre line and hit you. Good luck with however you think when on the road.
So if one crosses the centre line you just hammer on and expect that they will return to their side before they impede your journey?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I never blindly trust others. I always take responsibility for my actions.

Hope and faith are two different things.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

"things" is not a nice way to talk about Hope and Faith who were blonde and brunette respectively, and who were strippers at Calendar Girls.

mmmmm strippers.

[James Deuce]

mmmmm strippers.

$500??????

[unstuck]

"things" is not a nice way to talk about Hope and Faith who were blonde and brunette respectively, and who were strippers at Calendar Girls.

mmmmm strippers.

Good idea HDC. :devil2:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RGqJ0pp92h0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bogan]

Five hundred dollars

Five Hundred and Ten dollars!







What are we bidding on? Strippers, right?

[Big Dog]

"things" is not a nice way to talk about Hope and Faith who were blonde and brunette respectively, and who were strippers at Calendar Girls.

mmmmm strippers.

Or two blondes that made for a pretty mediocre sitcom.

Candy, brandy and ginger sound tastier.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

You are assuming there will be time to analyse if they will return to the other side of the road before they hit you. This is not always the case.

In such a case should not your analysis default to a "they probably won't" state, though?

[Big Dog]

You are assuming there will be time to analyse if they will return to the other side of the road before they hit you. This is not always the case.

It takes a lot less time to think about it I you have an exit strategy.

But for the purposes of the above hypothetical. Assuming you have 100m to spare when you see them cross the line.

Do you carry on as off nothing is happening?
Or do you take action just in case?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

In such a case should not your analysis default to a "they probably won't" state, though?

Or if you must spend six months in traction as a result would you not prefer to know you did everything you could? Or would you rather lay there feeling proud you did not surrender?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Take action but what would depend on the situation/road

So you would be willing to take evasive action rather than trust the other road user to return to his side of the divide?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

Take action but what would depend on the situation/road

You have to expect it to happen before you can take action. You have two response systems built into your brain. Type 1 is heuristic and builds its responses from the sum of your experience. If your experience does not include vehicles crossing the centre-line you get referred to type 2 which has two modes. Fight or flight or rationalising a response. One of which is random and driven by your endocrine system and the other of which is too slow to deal with an emergency.

Postulating scenarios and practising responses is either compulsory or you simply go, "meh, I trust everyone".

Your approach to every discussion I've seen you enter leaves you relying on a Type 2 response IMO, because I've never seen you postulate anything except never going around corners and always following the road rules. You're the sort of rider for whom the unexpected can be fatal because you're expecting to think your way out of a problem. You never have time to do that. If your baseline skills and mental practice aren't able to sustain the demands of an emergency you'll fail to negotiate it.

[haydes55]

Surprised you could get your palm off your cock long enough.:bleh::whistle:


To be honest, it's so lubricated my hand slid off and I slapped my face.

[haydes55]

You should definitely give up riding if you feel you can not trust any other motorist as what are you doing when you travel down the road and there are cars coming the other way. You are trusting them to not cross the centre line and hit you and they are trusting you not to cross the centre line and hit them. I rest my case.


You have the same retarded rationale of a christian. Blind faith. You have zero proof the other driver is competent, impaired or distracted. Thousands of drivers every year are convicted of drink driving, dangerous driving, unlicensed etc..... And you trust them to think clearly and not break road rules..... Yet I bet you witness another road user breaking the road code every 2 minutes on the road.... Still trust them though, because god exists too.

[Banditbandit]

You have the same retarded rationale of a christian. Blind faith. You have zero proof the other driver is competent, impaired or distracted. Thousands of drivers every year are convicted of drink driving, dangerous driving, unlicensed etc..... And you trust them to think clearly and not break road rules..... Yet I bet you witness another road user breaking the road code every 2 minutes on the road.... Still trust them though, because god exists too.

So - tell me - do you still ride or drive on the roads??? It seems unlikely after that response ..

[Swoop]

Not ever. Correct, I'm not. They shouldn't. You don't have a case. You have blind faith.

Gotta have bind faith.
But no false hope.
F. Fighters. 2014.

[jasonu]

You were the fucking thick one that said that people should give way when they have right of way. NO
You aren't the dude on here who feels all motorists should be able to read the minds of other motorists
so they stay safe are you? NO AGAIN

You are about the thickest cunt (or one of the best trolls) to have ever graced this forum that is Kiwi Biker. Please keep it up, it is a great source of entertainment.:niceone::niceone::niceone:

[haydes55]

So - tell me - do you still ride or drive on the roads??? It seems unlikely after that response ..


I still drive, about 50,000km every year in the work van, and just ticked up 15,000km since getting my bike last year.

My point was I trust no body. So I question everyone's actions.

For cassina, yes I can read other peoples minds. I call my magic power common sense. E.g. Over taking a car, that is going faster than the car in front of it.... It's obvious the car is going to pull into my lane without indicating (because indicators don't exist). So I have right of way, but give way to the driver because they haven't seen me.

The majority of vehicle vs vehicle collisions require both parties to not be driving defensively. If one person makes a fuck up, that doesn't mean you have to crash with them. You have the option of assessing every other user to foresee their likely paths, you can turn left or right, you could brake or accelerate, you could stay on the same path, or any other combination of the above. To trust another vehicle is obeying the law, attentive and competent is foolish, your next crash will be soon.

[James Deuce]

That's why I ride. I don't have to think about any of the other stuff of life while I'm second guessing all the other people thinking about everything except driving or riding.

[bogan]

So if you did not have defensive riding traffic reading ability like you claim would you still risk driving? Even when you are driving it cant be very relaxing for you continually reading the defensive riding traffic reading of other drivers in the event they screw up.

It is not mind reading ffs, just good defensive riding practice; no wonder you have so many accidents with an attitude like that. It becomes second nature when you do it long enough, self improvement has a relaxing quality all of its own as well, you should try it sometime :bleh:

[James Deuce]

It's like a form of active meditation. Keeps the mind clear when death is on the line.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Five hundred and ten dollars, packet of chips, a dozen Double brown swappa crate. Final offer.

[James Deuce]

Five hundred and ten dollars, packet of chips, a dozen Double brown swappa crate. Final offer.

Only if we're talking strippers, buddy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Only if we're talking strippers, buddy.

Strippers are classy. No Double Brown for them.... Lindauer. Special reserve.

[unstuck]

Strippers are classy. No Double Brown for them.... Lindauer. Special reserve.

Chateau de legopener. :lol::lol:

[pritch]

You are about the thickest cunt (or one of the best trolls) to have ever graced this forum that is Kiwi Biker. Please keep it up, it is a great source of entertainment.:niceone::niceone::niceone:

Nah. I've had her on ignore for months, now I can read a thread like this one and retain a sense of unruffled calm :innocent:

It's not hard to see what's going on though, and I'm with Jim2. Once in another life I drove a city bus for a while and I can tell y'all that's a real eye opener. And I'm talking about other road users, the passengers can wait for another day... The first thing I learned was that on seeing something silly start to unravel don't think to yourself, "She won't do that." Mistake! Yes she bloody will, no matter how stupid.

[haydes55]

Five hundred and ten dollars, packet of chips, a dozen Double brown swappa crate. Final offer.


Are we betting on cassina being the next KB member to bin a bike? If so, I'm in.

[Berries]

You aren't the dude on here who feels all motorists should be able to read the minds of other motorists so they stay safe are you?
To be fair I think that was me but you picked up the wrong end of the stick in that discussion and ran with it just like you have here. People can't read minds. What they can do is make an assessment of the hazards ahead, whether it is a car on the side road who 9 times out of 10 will give way or a rental car coming towards them on a corner when 99 times out of 100 it won't cross the centre line towards you. I would rather be prepared to take evasive action than ride along happily knowing I am complying with all the road rules as if that somehow made me safe. I ride every day and if I tried it with that attitude I would be knocked off two or three times a month.

And before you start, that hazard assessment should include what vehicles are behind you. If you do have a car or truck behind you then the car on the side road is more likely to see someone approaching and not pull out in front of you ergo if no vehicles are behind you the more likely the car is going to pull out in to your path. Dirty old white car = more likely. New small car looks like a rental = more likely. Sun behind you = more likely. Woman driver = more likely. Bloke with dreads = more likely. Four lads = more likely. Etc etc etc.

.

[bogan]

All of my opponents in this debate are riding with the assumption that there will always be time to take evasive action should shit happen and I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake. Hence the reason why I claim they must have mind reading ability. Or do they have just as false a belief in their riding safety as they claim I have? Yes I do check cars behind me but the car on the side of the road that may or may not pull out you have to either take your chances and pass or stop and wait to see what they do if they do anything at all which is going to make getting from A to B a very slow process eh wherever you go.

Again you pick up the wrong end of the stick. There may not absolutely always be time, but it is better to ride defensively as if there was, as there is time in the vast majority of cases. In your crashes you didn't have time to brake because you were not watchful for signs you might need to, and thus were not prepared; it takes less than half a second to apply the brakes if you are prepared.

[James Deuce]

All of my opponents in this debate are riding with the assumption that there will always be time to take evasive action should shit happen and I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake. Hence the reason why I claim they must have mind reading ability. Or do they have just as false a belief in their riding safety as they claim I have? Yes I do check cars behind me but the car on the side of the road that may or may not pull out you have to either take your chances and pass or stop and wait to see what they do if they do anything at all which is going to make getting from A to B a very slow process eh wherever you go.

No we're not. Not only are you a concrete thinker, you can't read either.

And just this weekend past, I stopped twice whilst riding from Taupo to Greytown because I knew damn well that the person at the side road ahead was going to pull into my path. One of them wasn't slowing on his approach to the Intersection enough to come to a complete halt in the time available. And didn't. The other one was traveling inordinately slowly. And came to halt in the middle of my lane before looking and indicating and was at least 300 years old. Neither of these decisions was particularly conscious however they were as a result of previous experience. Who knows if my decision to stop as a result of my lack of trust of these two had any basis in what may have happened. What did happen was I wasn't run over by people failing to give way. That's a win, is it not? You DON'T have to take your chances. In terms of progress, given the statements you have made on here, I guarantee I can get from your point a to your point b quicker than you can. There's a difference between being careful and wilfully ignorant of risk.

[Big Dog]

All of my opponents in this debate are riding with the assumption that there will always be time to take evasive action should shit happen and I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake. Hence the reason why I claim they must have mind reading ability. Or do they have just as false a belief in their riding safety as they claim I have? Yes I do check cars behind me but the car on the side of the road that may or may not pull out you have to either take your chances and pass or stop and wait to see what they do if they do anything at all which is going to make getting from A to B a very slow process eh wherever you go.

And I am saying that your statement above indicates a lack of awareness.
There have been a couple of times I started an emergency braking manoeuvre before I was consciously aware of the risk.
I have found that by maintaining a constant vigil sometimes I have finished evading a crisis before I could actively describe it. Usually after the fact I can recall a clue or two, but when I initiate the action I don't always know why. I put this down to constantly evaluating risks, probabilities and exits. I put this down to practice and experience. This is a quite meditative state. More so the more risks as you shut down unnecessary threads of thought, banish those things in out daily lives that cause is stress. While quite taxing energy wise it is quite fulfilling and relaxing.

For the 1 to 2 hours a day I am riding in heavy traffic there are no thoughts of where is my career going, do I have enough money for food, do I have enough children, do I have enough income to support my family etc , all of that is gone.
Just me, my bike and the task at hand.

I think the quote goes along the lines: The reward of a job done well is that it is done.

Have I ever had times when I had absolutely no time to react and an accident occurred through no fault of my own? Yes an no.
If I am truly honest with each of them they were at fist beyond my control, but in thorough introspection I see that:
My first, if I had a better lane position it would not have mattered how badly she was driving she could not have hit me without also hitting a row of cars.
My second, if I had a better understanding of motorcycle maintenance or defensive riding the two could not have colluded to result in an accident.
My third, understanding the difference between loaded and overloaded would have helped but practice braking on gravel would have saved me.
My fourth, I still don't see a lesson in that. But through my quick actions instead of ending up pushed under a car my bike held back a Holden ute. I could also have made a bail for the foot path and hoped the pedestrians moved and probably watched the ute tbone the car crossing in front. But I made my assessment and acted.

Am I perfect? God no!
Do I hang about taking forever to get a cross town. No.
Do I get more out of riding than I put in. Hell yes!


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

But with every other vehicle on the road effectively being a "Sign" as you put it you would be best to give up riding. As a matter of interest what is the "sign" in advance that someone is coming around a corner on the wrong side of the road? I say there is no "Sign".

In my experience that is usually a panicked look on the drivers face as they came in to hot.
A see sawing of the pitch and or yaw of the vehicle as they desperately brake after coming in way too hot.
The centreline disappearing under the car instead of beside.
All of the passengers in the car leaning out of the turn.
Unusual tyre or engine noise.
An indicator on.
A turn off near the corner.
After 7 on a Friday or Saturday near a rural pub.


There are more.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Personally I try to take corners so that I could stop on half the available distance.
Even if the person coming the other way does not do the same this is usually good enough to initiate evasive or at least damage reducing accidents.


Not every accident is avoidable, but it is your responsibility to either avoid or mitigate as much harm as possible.

If that is not your view you should not be operating heavy machinery or using the road.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

But with every other vehicle on the road effectively being a "Sign" as you put it you would be best to give up riding. As a matter of interest what is the "sign" in advance that someone is coming around a corner on the wrong side of the road? I say there is no "Sign".

Why would I give up? I'm not the one having accidents since I actually bother to read the 'signs'. The sign there is, a vehicle on the wrong side of the road coming towards you. Standard defensive riding practice is to be able to stop within the distance you can see, while an oncoming car of course eats into that distance, there would still be plenty of time to react and have a slow speed biff into the ditch as the worst case; which is a far better worst case than riding straight into a head-on without applying brakes at all as you seem to think is the only option there; comparing those two options I would say, perhaps it is best you give up riding.

[Grubber]

You are about the thickest cunt (or one of the best trolls) to have ever graced this forum that is Kiwi Biker. Please keep it up, it is a great source of entertainment.:niceone::niceone::niceone:

Madness would come a close 2nd.:2thumbsup

[buggerit]

I am possibly a better defensive rider than you think as I have been riding non stop since 1976. I just don't try and claim that all accidents that are not your fault are avoidable like what you guys do and have experienced a few unlike you guys perhaps. The other guy said he was hit by a driver who did not look and that he would not have been hit had he been better positioned in the lane. I was hit by a car doing a U turn and was correctly positioned in the lane but from now on if I think there is a risk of that happening will ride the centre line of the road to give me a bit more time. I would not be so arrogant to make a claim that such a practise will work at all times in the future though.

Suggest you attend an ACC subsidised rider training programme in your area, you will probably get more out of it
if you open your ears and shut your mouth.
You have been riding 38 yrs, fuck, buy a lotto ticket too!

[Big Dog]

I am possibly a better defensive rider than you think as I have been riding non stop since 1976. I just don't try and claim that all accidents that are not your fault are avoidable like what you guys do and have experienced a few unlike you guys perhaps. The other guy said he was hit by a driver who did not look and that he would not have been hit had he been better positioned in the lane. I was hit by a car doing a U turn and was correctly positioned in the lane but from now on if I think there is a risk of that happening will ride the centre line of the road to give me a bit more time. I would not be so arrogant to make a claim that such a practise will work at all times in the future though.
I was hit in spite of being in the left hand wheel track fully within my lane. Because my left arm got struck. Pinwheeling the bike. I was completely in my lane, but looking at it in retrospect if I had been 6 inches to the right she could not have clipped my arm without hitting the row of cars waiting at the lights.


As to signs you might get in advance ( I have):
Farm vehicles - often have someone passing them in blind corners.

Approaching sirens - don't always stay on their side if the road.

Screeching tyres - a reason I am not fond of loud bikes.

Approaching helicopters - in the case I am thinking if it was the eagle helicopter with its million power search light. I pulled over knowing something was up but not what. Sedan with no lights came round the corner at a great rate o knots.

A vehicle moving particularly fast - often followed by another.

Etc.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Again not all accidents are avoidable by both parties but you do have to do your bit.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Ps. I was 2 in 76. So I was not riding defensively then.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

I am possibly a better defensive rider than you think as I have been riding non stop since 1976. I just don't try and claim that all accidents that are not your fault are avoidable like what you guys do and have experienced a few unlike you guys perhaps. The other guy said he was hit by a driver who did not look and that he would not have been hit had he been better positioned in the lane. I was hit by a car doing a U turn and was correctly positioned in the lane but from now on if I think there is a risk of that happening will ride the centre line of the road to give me a bit more time. I would not be so arrogant to make a claim that such a practise will work at all times in the future though.

There are NO accidents that aren't your own fault. They're all avoidable. They're usually the result of arrogance, ego, or ignorance, or a combination of all three.

[Big Dog]

There are NO accidents that aren't your own fault. They're all avoidable. They're usually the result of arrogance, ego, or ignorance, or a combination of all three.

The job exceeding the tools in the kit.

Not enough tools? Get more.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

Suggest you attend an ACC subsidised rider training programme in your area, you will probably get more out of it
if you open your ears and shut your mouth.
You have been riding 38 yrs, fuck, buy a lotto ticket too!

I suggest the IAMS course...

[James Deuce]

Ok then wise guy explain how you would avoid being hit by a car driver who thinks the bridge he is about to cross is 2 lane and not one lane as you are about to exit it on a bend? I was lucky to be in my car that day but would have been killed on a bike.

Keep on thinking whatever you like.

Sounds like poor observation to me.

[James Deuce]

I suggest the IAMS course...

Too crunchy.

[James Deuce]

Hypothetical situations filled with variables only known to you are called: A Set Up.

I was referring to your observational skills. Those are the only ones you can control.

[buggerit]

Don't you think if I have been riding that long I would be riding pretty much the same way that is taught in any training programme anyway?
Training programmes do not offer you full protection against situations that are the fault of others.

I have yet to read someone on here saying their "IAMs" (as an example) training has saved them when another driver screwed up.

Ive been riding since 1971 and am still learning, they say to give up when you stop learning.
Training programmes dont offer full protection but they do improve your odds if your mind is open to learning.
Nothing offers fool protection which you seem to require.

[bogan]

I am possibly a better defensive rider than you think as I have been riding non stop since 1976. I just don't try and claim that all accidents that are not your fault are avoidable like what you guys do and have experienced a few unlike you guys perhaps. The other guy said he was hit by a driver who did not look and that he would not have been hit had he been better positioned in the lane. I was hit by a car doing a U turn and was correctly positioned in the lane but from now on if I think there is a risk of that happening will ride the centre line of the road to give me a bit more time. I would not be so arrogant to make a claim that such a practise will work at all times in the future though.

Well, it would be fucking difficult to be a worse one than I think you are :killingme In fact most people who use time/age etc to show how good they are, tend to be the most set in their ways, and hearing of all the accidents you've had, your ways are shit.

We don't claim that it will work at all times, the post you just quoted clearly shows that. However, riding like it will is the best way to maximise the chances that it will :sunny: Arrogance goes both ways, like it is arrogant to say there is nothing more you could have done to avoid an accident, in that arrogance is characterised by an unwillingness to learn. I'd prefer the 'arrogance' that lets me avoid accidents, and I'm sure fido would prefer me to ride that way too.

[buggerit]

BTW How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

We dont do mind reading, only observation, you might want to try it<_<

[Ender EnZed]

How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

Too fucking many.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I have yet to read someone on here saying their "IAMs" (as an example) training has saved them when another driver screwed up.

Recently had a car roll though a roundabout, then seeing me after he entered the roundabout used his anchors to stop blocking both lanes. I pulled up the bike within a few inches of the car. It was not the ability to read the drivers mind - the approach speed, position of the car, and not making eye contact with the driver were clues that this driver may not have seen the bike, or even looked for other vehicles on the roundabout.

A lot of roadcraft is about looking for risks. Although experience plays a part (I'm pretty waring of any intersection). Working with an instructor does improve risk observation and the awareness of what's happening around us

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't you think if I have been riding that long I would be riding pretty much the same way that is taught in any training programme anyway?
Training programmes do not offer you full protection against situations that are the fault of others.

I have yet to read someone on here saying their "IAMs" (as an example) training has saved them when another driver screwed up.

V2f-MZ2HRHQ

[bogan]

I am just glad the justice system does not have people like you handing out traffic accident fines as I bet you would hand them out to the innocent victims of crashes too as your way of thinking does confirm that and I bet they would be equal too. BTW How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

Who said anything about fault? The ability to avoid an accident is not the same as causing it. I think this is your problem, you're too caught up in who is 'right' to remain 'upright' when an incident occurs.

Enough that you even get to use the qualifier 'with another vehicle'... :laugh: How many subsections in you accident repertoire are there :crazy:

[James Deuce]

I am just glad the justice system does not have people like you handing out traffic accident fines as I bet you would hand them out to the innocent victims of crashes too as your way of thinking does confirm that and I bet they would be equal too.

"No fault" and "innocent" are two very different things. There are no innocent parties in any accident. I'm almost willing to give passengers a break, but that's a compromise based on their likelihood of distracting the rider/driver vs. culpability.

I've never had an accident I wasn't responsible for. There was always a better choice that would have avoided it, but I made errors of judgment that made the avoidable inevitable. But irrespective of the justice system and insurance company's decisions (neither of which believe I've been at fault in an accident) they've all been my own stupid fault. I've had two single vehicle accidents. One was a head high sheep and the other was a pool of diesel around a blind corner. Can't plan for those. But both times my head was elsewhere. Observation and responses flawed. Both avoidable for a number of reasons.

[James Deuce]

As you have said you have never had an accident you were not responsible for this would explain why you don't understand where I am coming from. Why do you not see the farmer who let his sheep run on the road and the driver that dumped the diesel as being responsible for you crashing? That's like me saying it was my fault being in the way of the other motorists when they screwed up?

It would be your fault for being in the way. You need to make sure you are not there.

It's not the farmer's fault I didn't see his sheep. It's mine. Combined with I should't have even been on that road, I should have taken the shorter route to meet my wife at the cafe instead of being a dick and being disrespectful and expecting her to be late. My head was in the wrong place so I made a mistake I didn't need to make. The sheep was avoidable, just like the mob I'd just gently trickled through at walking pace. I SHOULD have expected some outliers.

There were many clues that there was an incident ahead when I fell off on an extensive diesel slick. The big pile of clay on the apex of the corner should have been enough of a hint to stop rather than slow, but I was having fun. My fault entirely.

You can whinge about the scenario that "caused" the accident all you want. The only person who can avoid it is me. I'd rather get better at that than blaming other people and circumstances for events that ultimately only affect me and the people who rely on me. My responsibility is to learn how to do this motorcycle thing better all the time, not sit back and let other people's whims dictate my fate.

[Murray]

I don't think you are aware of it but yes you (we) do place trust in other motorists on the road and I gave the example of trusting cars going the other way not to cross the centre line and hit you. Good luck with however you think when on the road.


It would be your fault for being in the way. You need to make sure you are not there.

It's not the farmer's fault I didn't see his sheep. It's mine. Combined with I should't have even been on that road, I should have taken the shorter route to meet my wife at the cafe instead of being a dick and being disrespectful and expecting her to be late. My head was in the wrong place so I made a mistake I didn't need to make. The sheep was avoidable, just like the mob I'd just gently trickled through at walking pace. I SHOULD have expected some outliers.

There were many clues that there was an incident ahead when I fell off on an extensive diesel slick. The big pile of clay on the apex of the corner should have been enough of a hint to stop rather than slow, but I was having fun. My fault entirely.

You can whinge about the scenario that "caused" the accident all you want. The only person who can avoid it is me. I'd rather get better at that than blaming other people and circumstances for events that ultimately only affect me and the people who rely on me. My responsibility is to learn how to do this motorcycle thing better all the time, not sit back and let other people's whims dictate my fate.

Can't green bling you again - must spread first

[jasonu]

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

You really are a thick cunt.

[buggerit]

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

Situational awareness in both cases may have avoided or mitigated the accidents, so the sheep and the diesel were there, and
obsrtuctions that may have been avoided with more thought, then both incidents would have been a non event.
James Deuce is shouldering some of the blame for not being on his game,good on him for an honest assessment of his accident
and moving on to improve, something you cant do if you cant recognise your own faults .

[Big Dog]

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

And there in lies the principal difference between fault = full or partial blame vs fault = legal liability / culpability.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[haydes55]

Cassina..... Has anyone ever agreed with your arguments?

Is that not proof enough that you should at least open your mind to different options to help stay upright?

You're quick to ask why people ride if they are so scared of other factors which could cause a crash. When in reality, I don't know if I would ride or drive at all if I believed that unavoidable accidents could occur. I think you must have girl balls the size of guy martins man balls if you know that around any corner you could crash and die, and there is nothing you could do about it.

Just going by what you post (and in all fairness sometimes the words people choose don't always portray their opinion accurately), you seem to treat riding like a game of Russian roulette with a million empty chambers and a couple of bullets.... Whereas everyone else is still playing the same game of Russian roulette, but we choose to move our head out of the sights before pulling the trigger.

[corsaro128]

So is OP considering my offer, or what?

FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS

HmmmmmMMMM

[bogan]

Firstly those that disagree with my argument are always the same 3 or 4 people out of maybe several hundred or even thousand guys who are members of this site.

So anyone who doesn't actively disagree with you, must agree with you by default? Does that apply to what those same 3 or 4 people are saying to, I mean three people are saying essentially the same thing, to only your disagreement; so do the sums and 4x the number of registers users on this site agree with me and think you are a complete moron.

[Mike.Gayner]

Holy fuck this is a gay thread.

[bogan]

Holy fuck this is a gay thread.

It is now you're here.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/v2F0kpTC8yU/hqdefault.jpg

[HenryDorsetCase]

HmmmmmMMMM

By yesterday I had gotten up to $510, a bag of chips and a swappa crate of double brown. Unless you are a stripper in which case it is $510, the chips and a couple of bottles of Lindauer Special Reserve. Are you a stripper? Or, like, could you be?

[buggerit]

Firstly those that disagree with my argument are always the same 3 or 4 people out of maybe several hundred or even thousand guys who are members of this site. So on that basis there is no certainty whatsoever that they are wrong and I am right otherwise there would be at least 30 or 40 guys opposing my views at the very minimum. When you think about it you are correct in comparing riding to Russian roulette and the same goes for cycling. When I first started riding there was a saying that motorcyclists were temporary NZers if you have ever heard that but not you guys eh!!

You take "thick as pig shit" to a whole new level, don't you:facepalm:

[skippa1]

Firstly those that disagree with my argument are always the same 3 or 4 people out of maybe several hundred or even thousand guys who are members of this site. So on that basis there is no certainty whatsoever that they are wrong and I am right otherwise there would be at least 30 or 40 guys opposing my views at the very minimum!
I wasn't going to post in this thread but there is no way I am going to indicate any support for your fucked up theories by remaing silent

cunt

[Taxythingy]

Cassina, I disagree with your argument.

I have found my experiences on the road, including two crashes, most of my other riding and driving, observations of several avoided crashes and driving in multiple countries, fits well with JD's approach.

I find your arguments to be very black or white, with little or no acceptance of the other position as having any merit.

I see little that I can reference back to serious study of safety, both on and off the road, particularly around how people actually do things and why compared to older, systems based approaches to safety.

Your counter arguments appear to target edge cases and then use these as a reason to refute an opposing argument completely. When this happens, it makes it look as though you haven't understood the other position.

None of this means I think your ideas are wrong, I just find them difficult to accept. Flip side, I find some other people to have made very good counter arguments and in these I place significantly more value.

Ride the way you want and believe what you will, but I think you would do well to reread some of these longer threads and consider why others have taken the positions they have.

Except Akzle's. There's no point trying to attain that level of artistry.

Edit: Should have written what Skippa did.

[Madness]

Are we doing a partition? I completely disagree with everything Cassina has ever posted on this site.

[Big Dog]

Firstly those that disagree with my argument are always the same 3 or 4 people out of maybe several hundred or even thousand guys who are members of this site. So on that basis there is no certainty whatsoever that they are wrong and I am right otherwise there would be at least 30 or 40 guys opposing my views at the very minimum. When you think about it you are correct in comparing riding to Russian roulette and the same goes for cycling. When I first started riding there was a saying that motorcyclists were temporary NZers if you have ever heard that but not you guys eh!!

Ironically I have outlived everyone who has ever called me that to my face.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Cassina, I disagree with your argument.

I have found my experiences on the road, including two crashes, most of my other riding and driving, observations of several avoided crashes and driving in multiple countries, fits well with JD's approach.

I find your arguments to be very black or white, with little or no acceptance of the other position as having any merit.

I see little that I can reference back to serious study of safety, both on and off the road, particularly around how people actually do things and why compared to older, systems based approaches to safety.

Your counter arguments appear to target edge cases and then use these as a reason to refute an opposing argument completely. When this happens, it makes it look as though you haven't understood the other position.

None of this means I think your ideas are wrong, I just find them difficult to accept. Flip side, I find some other people to have made very good counter arguments and in these I place significantly more value.

Ride the way you want and believe what you will, but I think you would do well to reread some of these longer threads and consider why others have taken the positions they have.

Except Akzle's. There's no point trying to attain that level of artistry.

Edit: Should have written what Skippa did.

I agree. Closed minded, flippant, modify the data to fit your argument statements don't really compare to reasoned debate and rebuttal crafted to fit the evidence / data.
I would also like to add we have invited him to rebut any of our arguments. To which we only ever get a restatement of the original statement. Not even a fresh argument.


This leads me to believe I have been lured in by a lurid troll.


Lured into giving long an reasoned arguments.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Ironically I have outlived everyone who has ever called me that to my face.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Now that I think about it my doctor used to refer to me as an organ donor.
He'll keep.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

The argument is simply this and that is the others think there is always time when another motorist screws up to take evasive action and I am saying that this is not always the case and I have found this out from experience. The others have just got very lucky in always having time to take evasive action in my opinion. If it was possible for all riders to take evasive action when other motorists screw up no one would die as a result of the screw up now would they?

A falsehood wrapped up in an enigma.

Asked and answered. Yes.
Because as humans we evolve. As we find new ways to survive ever more perilous pursuits we find better ways to die or maim ourselves.

Very few persons have all the tools in their tool box to deal with every possible scenario but if we take responsibility for ourselves and those around us we can limit the likely hood that we have a hammer in our hand when we need a saw.

Failure to plan becomes a plan to fail.

The big difference between me and many more skilled riders I have had the pleasure of knowing through this site who are no longer with us is I take the time to develop and practice my survival skills and hold this in higher regard than popping wheelies or going super fast.

You feel free to accept a fatalist approach and live on the luck portion of the equation if you like, me, I'll continue to modify the things I can change, improve the things I can improve and hope for the best with the rest.

Any survival equals:
Resources x planning x luck x will = survival.

I am not about to put a zero into any of those variables.

I will also offer support, advice and encouragement to any person of any background who also wants to live.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Taxythingy]

The argument is simply this and that is the others think there is always time when another motorist screws up to take evasive action and I am saying that this is not always the case

Wrong, and that supports what I said when I suggested a lack of understanding of the other position.

Your argument is that there isn't always time to take action when another motorist screws up.
The other side of the argument is that there isn't always time to take action when another motorist screws up, but that good observation and planning will reduce the number of those situations.

It's the same fundamental position, but showing a plan of attack to deal with some of the lack of certainties, increasing the chances that when something does go wrong they will have the time to deal with it.

[bogan]

The argument is simply this and that is the others think there is always time when another motorist screws up to take evasive action

Wrong, we think that you should ride so as to ensure there is (within reason), so as to minimise the risk of accident.

You seem to advocate the opposite approach, that there isn't always going to be time to react, so why bother trying to ensure there is at all. No wonder you have enough accidents under your belt to subcategorise em!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Y'all mahfuckers know there's this thing called the "ignore" button, right?

[James Deuce]

Y'all mahfuckers know there's this thing called the "ignore" button, right?

That fucks up the entertainment factor in some cases.

[HenryDorsetCase]

DrIHqR1s2Ac

[jasonu]

Y'all mahfuckers know there's this thing called the "ignore" button, right?

Don't be stupid. This is the best thread since Shaun Harris admitted to cheating.

[Murray]

Wrong, we think that you should ride so as to ensure there is (within reason), so as to minimise the risk of accident.

You seem to advocate the opposite approach, that there isn't always going to be time to react, so why bother trying to ensure there is at all. No wonder you have enough accidents under your belt to subcategorise em!


Don't be stupid. This is the best thread since Shaun Harris admitted to cheating.

I would agree with both those comments

[BuzzardNZ]

Don't be stupid. This is the best thread since Shaun Harris admitted to cheating.

I doubt anything will ever top the I cheated thread.

[jasonu]

I doubt anything will ever top the I cheated thread.

Yep that will be hard to top.

[haydes55]

If you are dumb enough to think I don't try and avoid accidents when others screw up you are wrong its just that sometimes things as I said can happen too quick to even brake. You are now trying to claim that I said that there is "NEVER" any time to try and avoid accidents when others screw up eh!!!


The point everyone tries telling you is, by being vigilant and trying to spot early signs of other drivers fucking up, you can make allowances in your current path to be in a better position to avoid an accident if the other person actually ends up fucking up.

If all of your accidents happened because you had no time to brake.... Then I'd counter to say you weren't being vigilant enough and missed the signs. Yes, you may have been in the right, their insurance paid you out and the cops ticketed the other person..... But you still ended up eating asphalt.

[bogan]

If you are dumb enough to think I don't try and avoid accidents when others screw up you are wrong its just that sometimes things as I said can happen too quick to even brake. You are now trying to claim that I said that there is "NEVER" any time to try and avoid accidents when others screw up eh!!!

They happen a lot quicker if you go in unprepared though. Anyone will try and avoid an accident once it is imminent; but defensive riding is about not being in that position to begin with. If you have accidents that happen too quick to even brake you are clearly not riding in a defensive fashion.

Learn to read, plebby; I claimed nothing of the sort.

[bogan]

It was because I was on a bike and nothing to too with failing to see any "signs" that I hit the road.

Didn't you tuck the front and rear end some cunt who was braking? Pretty sure all vehicles are equipped with some bright red things to act as signage to avoid such an occurrence.

[bogan]

I said it was a head on. For it to be rear end he would have had to be coming off the bridge in front on me. I am now getting the impression you are not as bright as you think you are to decide what I said was a head on was a rear end collision. Or are you just on the piss or drugs this afternoon???

You also said you were on your bike, while the bridge head on was in your car wasn't it? or are there a couple that category too? In any case, I'm referring to one you mentioned a while back, open up you accident files, subcategory 'motorcycle vs car', subcategory 'my fault'; though I suspect it may have been misfiled under 'their fault' or 'act of god'...

[Madness]

http://gamasutra.com/db_area/images/blog/227048/stack-of-papers.jpg

[BlackSheepLogic]

If after an accident you believe you were 100% right (it was all someone else fault), or you believe it was an unavoidable situation (nothing could have been done) you will in similar circumstances have that accident again.



It was because I was on a bike and nothing to too with failing to see any "signs" that I hit the road. As for the time I was in my car coming off the one way bridge I would have seen him sooner if I had been on my bike or a 4WD and not a low sports coupe but there still would have been no way out. You will need to be in a crash where things happen too fast to see any "signs" before you understand my argument but enjoy keeping on believing such a crash could never happen. You will no doubt give up riding when/if it does I bet.

[bogan]

The time when I hit a car on my bike the car was parked on the side of the road and did a u turn in front of me. In future read my old posts again as your memory is not the best when you try and conceive accident scenarios that I have never stated happened but that's the effect of what you are on perhaps eh!!

Wrong file again I think, which was the accident that caused you to be scared of locking the front end when doing emergency stops?

Maybe you should upgrade your filing system?

http://1by4.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/messy-office-03.jpg

[Akzle]

Wrong file again I think, which was the accident that caused you to be scared of locking the front end when doing emergency stops?

Maybe you should upgrade your filing system?

[IMG]

hly fknshit... wait! zoom out!

yep, that's his mum's basement!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=306354&stc=1&d=1417677109

[haydes55]

And you could have the same sort of accident happen to you. I am not the only person who has ever hit a dog on the road or who has been in a u turn accident or head on collision. If you think such an accident could never happen to you you are a fool and the same goes for the others on this site that think the same.


You're right, those situations happen to other people too..... Other people manage to avoid crashing in those same situations. So it must be avoidable.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I think you missed the point.


And you could have the same sort of accident happen to you. I am not the only person who has ever hit a dog on the road or who has been in a u turn accident or head on collision. If you think such an accident could never happen to you you are a fool and the same goes for the others on this site that think the same.

[Big Dog]

I think you missed the point.

Or we understand that point and counter with it being our responsibility to do our utmost to avoid said situation.
We acknowledge that we personally will not be able to avoid every single situation but believe all situations are avoidable.
It is only a question then of:
Does the rider / driver in the given situation have the necessary tools for the job?
Is the driver / rider in that situation willing to do everything in their power to avoid a situation in the first place?
What is the balance on that vs never going riding?

People have been run over by locomotives while sleeping in their beds. So far I have avoided this, for those that have been run over this was "unavoidable" so which is true is it unavoidable or avoidable?
Clearly those who sleep in homes near railway tracks have done more to avoid this fate than a homeless person sleeping on the tracks in a rarely used tunnel.
Someone who lives further from the railway has done even more to mitigate the risk.
Each has chosen an exposure level.

[James Deuce]

Or we understand that point and counter with it being our responsibility to do our utmost to avoid said situation.
We acknowledge that we personally will not be able to avoid every single situation but believe all situations are avoidable.
It is only a question then of:
Does the rider / driver in the given situation have the necessary tools for the job?
Is the driver / rider in that situation willing to do everything in their power to avoid a situation in the first place?
What is the balance on that vs never going riding?


For example, I had booked the Katmantana in for a ride this morning, but I cancelled it because:

1. It was raining and I've had a year off riding and I haven't calibrated my riding brain yet without dealing with the extra stuff needed to ride in the rain.
2. I've been doing long hours at work this week and woke up feeling horrible.

I put the cover back on the bike and got the train.

[Big Dog]

And had the balls to admit it on KB.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[BlackSheepLogic]

The point was if you believe you executed flawlessly and it was completely unavoidable then for all intense and purposes it is.

However, if instead you ask yourself why did I fail to see the dog, why did I not stop in time after seeing the dog, and what could I change in my riding to lessen or mitigate this unfortunate event in the future, you may avoid other unfortunate events in the future.

I feel the only improvements to make me safer on the road is to improve my riding, awareness, & attitude. Not to hope other road users, animals, children, weather conditions, miscellaneous items, road surfaces etc will stop being hazards which negatively effect my enjoyment of riding.

Self critical assessment of my riding both the good and bad gave me an open enough mind to seek out training. The biggest plus to having training is having your riding accessed by instructors who are exemplary riders. But you have to have an open enough mind to accept that there may be flaws in your riding or area where improvement could be made to make this worthwhile.


Or we understand that point and counter with it being our responsibility to do our utmost to avoid said situation.
We acknowledge that we personally will not be able to avoid every single situation but believe all situations are avoidable.
It is only a question then of:
Does the rider / driver in the given situation have the necessary tools for the job?
Is the driver / rider in that situation willing to do everything in their power to avoid a situation in the first place?
What is the balance on that vs never going riding?

People have been run over by locomotives while sleeping in their beds. So far I have avoided this, for those that have been run over this was "unavoidable" so which is true is it unavoidable or avoidable?
Clearly those who sleep in homes near railway tracks have done more to avoid this fate than a homeless person sleeping on the tracks in a rarely used tunnel.
Someone who lives further from the railway has done even more to mitigate the risk.
Each has chosen an exposure level.

[bogan]

Do you have any idea how fast a dog can run?

Given a 0.5s reaction time and general minimum of 5m to roadside shrubbery concealment, 10m/s or 36kmhr. Of course had a dog been doing those speeds you should have been warned by movement within the shrubbery beforehand, so taking acceleration from rest into account, 20m/s or 72kmhr with an acceleration of 40m/s (or roughly 4g). Greyhound on steroids that just sat on an exposed electrical cable was it?

[Banditbandit]

http://i.imgur.com/csXB3xu.jpg

[bogan]

Have you not heard the saying that what should happen in theory does not always work out in practise. Good luck with your theory when/if a dog runs out at you.

It didn't work out for you because your identification and reaction time was vastly longer than 0.5s, obviously. Also evidence by your long list of crashes, all filed under 'nothing I could do'.

My theory did hold up when a dog ran at me, I had time to slow, and evade, then accelerate again cos the fucker was coming at me, not just crossing the road :bleh:

[BuzzardNZ]

pro-tip for dealing with dogs running at you while on your bike...

If you have time, put your boot out and accelerate hard, I did and almost took the bastards ( a large rottie ) jaw off. Only works when dog is coming at you from the side obviously.

Also, it was this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Serepisos ) dickheads dog that came at me!

[jasonu]

You make an assumption the dog was standing in the middle of the road I was not on the ball enough to see it. Well you are wrong the dog actually ran out on the road (Do you have any idea how fast a dog can run?) and in such a situation there can be zero time to take evasive action.

Unless, as a good rider that likes to be aware of their surroundings so is constantly scanning left and right, noticed a dog on the footpath and thought 'shit I will keep my eye on that dog and be ready to take evasive action in case it runs on the road which dogs often do'.
Out runs the dog. You already are aware of its presence and take evasive action possibly a second or 2 earlier than if you hadn't seen it earlier and hopefully that is enough extra time to avoid the runaway pooch.
You could substitute in 'other vehicle' for 'dog'. The scenario and the result could be the same.

[Big Dog]

pro-tip for dealing with dogs running at you while on your bike...

If you have time, put your boot out and accelerate hard, I did and almost took the bastards ( a large rottie ) jaw off. Only works when dog is coming at you from the side obviously.

Also, it was this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Serepisos ) dickheads dog that came at me!
I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
She is friendly enough, unless she thinks you are threatening her humans.

In my experience: keep your chin up and avoid eye contact, slow as much as you can on the gears. It stops your bike from making the growl the dog recognises as threat. Most exhausts may even make a playful bark. When you draw to within a few feet of the dog, Drop 2 gears and launch forward. Ideally at the tail end but the speed should surprise the dog enough for either end to work.

Not my experience but advice I have stored away just in case from various riders and stockman: If a dog or farm animal strike becomes inevitable loosen your grip and apply a little rear brake before:
A) small animal who's spine is lower than your front axle. - hit it square and be accelerating.
B) large animal, make the blow as glancing as possible. Be accelerating.

In either case most of the time the bike will right itself as soon as you are past as long as you held on to the bars but not too tightly.

When I have had no time to brake rolling off the throttle and clutching in has caused them to change vector.

It ain't perfect but you need to understand. The dog does not want to hurt you. The dog is threatened by the sounds your bike is making or some bikes may sound like they are trying to play. Scooters for example.

This is why so many dogs come to the gate as you ride around.

Take away the threat or the offer of play and they have no interest in you.

Exception: my dog will continue to play with you if you have pot. That is what she did in the prison service. Look for pot and other recreational drugs.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
.

Why do you allow your dog to run onto the road whenever it wants to?

[Taxythingy]

Given a 0.5s reaction time and general minimum of 5m to roadside shrubbery concealment, 10m/s or 36kmhr. Of course had a dog been doing those speeds you should have been warned by movement within the shrubbery beforehand, so taking acceleration from rest into account, 20m/s or 72kmhr with an acceleration of 40m/s (or roughly 4g). Greyhound on steroids that just sat on an exposed electrical cable was it?

Think you might be being a bit harsh there. It's perfectly reasonable to have the dog run at high speed from behind a solid fence or hedge. That would be 3m to the gutter and 4-5m to the middle of the lane. The dog could easily be doing 35km/hr, so 10m/s. That places the dog 2-3m to your left when you first react. Given 50km/hr on the bike, you try stopping or swerving to avoid that. Given also that there isn't time to decide which way to go - it will have to be instinctive or to your escape plan. 0.3s of hard swerve at that speed will not move the track of the bike more than about 1m to the side.

I reckon in that kind of situation you would very likely hit the dog.

The construct is artificial, but from the limited amount I've read of the crash (just this thread), it is a reasonable one. That would put it in the unavoidable position.

If there was more information available to the rider earlier, then there is definitely room for avoidance. Then it comes down to some of the issues discussed in this thread.

[Big Dog]

Why do you allow your dog to run onto the road whenever it wants to?

I don't.
That dog got out 3 or 5 times I know about. 2 were to pursue burglars.
One was to chase off a neighbours dog who had gotten I to our back yard and she got frightened by a bike coming down the road and then suddenly pointing at her and accelerating.

My current dog has escaped less than a dozen times in since 06. Trouble with former drug dogs is I can't legally build a fence the dog can't get over at a private property.
As such I am limited to training to keep her on my property. She does stay on the property if I leave the gate open while I am home.


She has been known to bark at people in possession of recreational drugs. She has also been known to escape if I am not home and they tease her. She doesn't approach them, just follows them around sounding the alarm. 2-4 times.

When she was on a run instead of behind a fence she chewed through a couple of collars to go play. 5-8 times.
I am not aware of her hanging out on the road.

She has not escaped since we have been in the current house.

Where she is now there is a generous run she goes on when we have visitors or neighbours have parties they have warned us about. The rest of the time she wanders in the back yard behind the fence. We both know she can jump it but she doesn't.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

I don't.
That dog got out 3 or 5 times I know about. 2 were to pursue burglars.
One was to chase off a neighbours dog who had gotten I to our back yard and she got frightened by a bike coming down the road and then suddenly pointing at her and accelerating.

My current dog has escaped less than a dozen times in since 06. Trouble with former drug dogs is I can't legally build a fence the dog can't get over at a private property.
As such I am limited to training to keep her on my property. She does stay on the property if I leave the gate open while I am home.


She has been known to bark at people in possession of recreational drugs. She has also been known to escape if I am not home and they tease her. She doesn't approach them, just follows them around sounding the alarm. 2-4 times.

When she was on a run instead of behind a fence she chewed through a couple of collars to go play. 5-8 times.
I am not aware of her hanging out on the road.

She has not escaped since we have been in the current house.

Where she is now there is a generous run she goes on when we have visitors or neighbours have parties they have warned us about. The rest of the time she wanders in the back yard behind the fence. We both know she can jump it but she doesn't.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

I hope the dog got a good hold on the robbers and bit their nuts off.

[BuzzardNZ]

I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
She is friendly enough, unless she thinks you are threatening her humans.

In my experience: keep your chin up and avoid eye contact, slow as much as you can on the gears. It stops your bike from making the growl the dog recognises as threat. Most exhausts may even make a playful bark. When you draw to within a few feet of the dog, Drop 2 gears and launch forward. Ideally at the tail end but the speed should surprise the dog enough for either end to work.

Not my experience but advice I have stored away just in case from various riders and stockman: If a dog or farm animal strike becomes inevitable loosen your grip and apply a little rear brake before:
A) small animal who's spine is lower than your front axle. - hit it square and be accelerating.
B) large animal, make the blow as glancing as possible. Be accelerating.

In either case most of the time the bike will right itself as soon as you are past as long as you held on to the bars but not too tightly.

When I have had no time to brake rolling off the throttle and clutching in has caused them to change vector.

It ain't perfect but you need to understand. The dog does not want to hurt you. The dog is threatened by the sounds your bike is making or some bikes may sound like they are trying to play. Scooters for example.

This is why so many dogs come to the gate as you ride around.

Take away the threat or the offer of play and they have no interest in you.

Exception: my dog will continue to play with you if you have pot. That is what she did in the prison service. Look for pot and other recreational drugs.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

u r right, dogs don't seem to like certain bike sounds, mines a v twin with two brothers pipes, so kind of loud and I'm sure this is what set the dog off.

I never had time to think ( was going about 50kph ), nor make eye contact with this huge mutt, it just sprung out of nowhere and it was instinctive that I did what I did ( i.e. booted it )

I love dogs and have owned a few different breeds ( English Bull Terrier ,Rhodesian Ridgeback and Doberman ) and always kept them secured in the property, other people that own large dogs should do the same as they can be a huge hazard to bikers!

[Big Dog]

I hope the dog got a good hold on the robbers and bit their nuts off.

The old dog.
Sort of...

Night one. muffled talking on the deck. Sent the dog who had come to wake me up to "investigate", as soon as she started investigating at full noise they took off. I got up and got her some some dog roll and a cameo creame.

Night two. she woke me up, I told her to be quiet until the ranch slider opened, she stopped at the end of the block when I called her. More dog roll and biscuits.
A night or two later it sounded like the same lot. I did not call her back.
A few hours later she came back. Carrying a back pocket. A bit of blood on the pocket too.

I can't remember it was a long time ago there may have been another time she went berserk before they even got as far as the deck. Either way not fast learners. I think the muffled talking may have been to get her attention in a no bark means dog is still at work with the owner kind of thing.


I was worried the police or animal control would get involved. They didn't


The new dog: In spite of chasing off several persons of indiscernible intent she has always stopped at the boundary barring one time she chased two thugs in dark hoodies down the road after they got into their poxy Mazda Familia.
She came back after a block though.

A few months ago though the neighbors had a party they had not warned me about so I did not tie the dog up. Among the kids at the part were several that were carrying.
When she started "alerting" I went out and politely warned them that she was a former drug dog and if they wanted the barking to stop could they please take their "party favours" back to their cars or at least stay away from the fence. About a dozen unhappy looking individuals made trips to their cars.
I went back inside but she started alerting again. I looked out the window and there were a group teasing her through the fence. Throwing ice at her, squirting her with water bottles, making growling noises etc.
So I went back out into the back yard and politely informed them they might want to reconsider, that her training meant the fence they were leaning on would not contain her if she really wanted out. They backed away from the fence but I did not even get back to the couch before she started alerting again. I went back outside and rather than explain it to this feeble minded lot I took a fence paling left over from building the fence and hoisted the tyre she has used as a chew toy since she was a pup and hoisted it as high at the fence. They backed away from the fence when she leaped up to take it...
The Dux amongst them thought now was a good time to throw ice at her again. So I hoisted the tyre up a little higher so she could jump for it... raising it a little more each time until she was jumping high enough to get it from the end of the paling held up by my out stretched arm. I am not short so I would estimate between 2.2 and 2.5 metres. I am 1.93M and her back legs were going higher than my head.
I then walked over to the fellow who had been chucking ice. "I think we both know she can clear this fence, without a run up. Do you really want her to work that out champ?".

The party went on until daylight the next day, the music got turned down at about 3, but I did not hear another peep out of the dog before I brought her in for the night about 12:30-1am.

[Big Dog]

u r right, dogs don't seem to like certain bike sounds, mines a v twin with two brothers pipes, so kind of loud and I'm sure this is what set the dog off.

I never had time to think ( was going about 50kph ), nor make eye contact with this huge mutt, it just sprung out of nowhere and it was instinctive that I did what I did ( i.e. booted it )

I love dogs and have owned a few different breeds ( English Bull Terrier ,Rhodesian Ridgeback and Doberman ) and always kept them secured in the property, other people that own large dogs should do the same as they can be a huge hazard to bikers!

I agree, and I go to great lengths to keep mine under control.
My problem seems to be I like smart dogs... Never underestimate the ability of a dog to escape if they want to.
My first dog to taken to the pound by a neighbor because it jumped the fence while his wife was teasing her. Bloody lucky I was not there according to my flatmate she was then left hanging from her chain not able to reach the ground while the callous fuckers called the pound, duct taped her mouth shut and then let her off the chain. Apparently all the while she was bucking kicking and foaming at the mouth as she choked.
My fault, I was leaving her at home while I went to work when at the previous job she came to work with me so she would start howling at lunch time because she would normally have got one of my sandwiches and a walk about then.
Anyway back to the point, when I went to pick her up from the pound she was getting beaten up by another dog. I went looking for the pound guy, came back and she was just coming back from a trip to the neighboring tip.
3 meter prison style fence with the sloping barbed wire.
50 odd dogs detained in the pen... not this bitch.

I don't even try and stop them escaping any more. I work on their psychology so they want to stay home want to protect the pack. The fence is more to make the neighbors and the council happy.
I have tried a few escape proof methods... both of my dogs I have had seem to think that is funny. They sort of smile pant hang their tongue out and pant and a soon as you turn their back they are history. Then you find them hiding under the house, or sitting by the truck hoping to go for a ride.
It is infuriating because they are still on the property, just not where they are supposed to be.

[Berries]

Night two. she woke me up, I told her to be quiet until the ranch slider opened.
I never realised Lassie was from NZ. One smart dog.

[Big Dog]

I never realised Lassie was from NZ. One smart dog.

Pretty sure if she ever found anyone in a well she didn't tell me...

[bogan]

Think you might be being a bit harsh there. It's perfectly reasonable to have the dog run at high speed from behind a solid fence or hedge. That would be 3m to the gutter and 4-5m to the middle of the lane. The dog could easily be doing 35km/hr, so 10m/s. That places the dog 2-3m to your left when you first react. Given 50km/hr on the bike, you try stopping or swerving to avoid that. Given also that there isn't time to decide which way to go - it will have to be instinctive or to your escape plan. 0.3s of hard swerve at that speed will not move the track of the bike more than about 1m to the side.

I reckon in that kind of situation you would very likely hit the dog.

The construct is artificial, but from the limited amount I've read of the crash (just this thread), it is a reasonable one. That would put it in the unavoidable position.

If there was more information available to the rider earlier, then there is definitely room for avoidance. Then it comes down to some of the issues discussed in this thread.

My point was that you do have time to react, albeit short and possibly futile. I'm simply trying (also perhaps futilely) to encourage the ideal that treating every accident as avoidable is the safest way to ride. Cassina seems to have had a whole stack of 'unavoidable' ones, making here either extremely unlucky, or just really shit at defensive riding. I mean how many people here would even say they have had one unavoidable one?


And your dumb enough to believe that the direction and speed of the dog and your bike will be exactly the same if there is a next time?

Of course not, I was just pointing out it had happened; and considering I check all directions for hazards (both speeding and stationary), I am confident it will be avoidable next time. You're clearly dumb enough not to learn from your accidents so you keep having them. Gee, I wonder which of us is better off?

[mossy1200]

Got chased by a wolf hound from the top of the cable car in welly. Took all the way down the road past the uni to gap him enough for him to give up. Big angry fast dog that didn't like the sound of a SP1.

[bogan]

The fact that if there is a next time you will be confident in being able to avoid hitting the dog still gives me the impression that you will be expecting all distances, directions and speeds to be the same. Your thinking reminds me of the very first time I skied down the steepest slope at mt hutt and did not crash. I came away confident I could do it again without crashing but it did not always work out that way if you can see the analogy.

Wrong, I expect said speeds/directions to be in the same range (ie, reality); like how I said I looked everywhere for hazards (not same direction, obviously). That analogy is analogous in that you have clearly missed the point, but it still works anyway; skiing down the slope without crashing proves it is possible to avoid crashing, crashing on subsequent runs means on those runs it was your lack of skill that contributed to the crash; how could it be otherwise?

[bogan]

No not lack of skill but just being overconfident after a successful first run and I just see you as being overconfident after avoiding your first dog.

Overconfidence is exaclty that though, getting yourself into a situation where you do not have the skill to avoid the crash. Confidence (be it over or under) would be meaningless in the face of an unavoidable accident. That you bring it up only shows the accidents are as I describe, avoidable with the right skillset. If you also learned to read I didn't say I would avoid it, just that it would be avoidable; the distinction's implications are important.

[madbikeboy]

I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake.

You're either not paying any attention, or your processing is so slow that you're retarded. Maybe multiple crashes with zero braking response should be enough advance warning that you're just no good at this biking thing?

[Akzle]

You're either not paying any attention, or your processing is so slow that you're retarded. Maybe multiple crashes with zero braking response should be enough advance warning that you're just no good at this biking thing?

:killingme

+rbjiafp.

[dinosaur]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

[Scubbo]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

and like fat chic's they're cheap (to rego...)

[Akzle]

Maybe like a few others on here you have just got lucky in having enough time in the past to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash.

:killingme

you deserve to die in a manglement of automotive steel.

[madbikeboy]

Maybe like a few others on here you have just got lucky in having enough time in the past to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash. Keep in mind this may not always be the case in the future so then you will become the one not paying attention or being retarded and should at that point give up riding yourself.

Madam Retard,

You take a very passive role in determining your fate if you believe that luck alone will save you.

Planning, training, constant attention, and giving yourself space, time and distance. I'll take my survival strategies over yours.

MBB.

[FJRider]

... Planning, training, constant attention, and giving yourself space, time and distance. I'll take my survival strategies over yours.

MBB.

Misjudge any one of those six factors ... and regardless of (your) ability/skill/luck ... you could be toast.

And sometimes .... luck is all it is that keeps you alive. Don't knock it ...

Personally ... the warning voices in my head have saved the day a few times.

[FJRider]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

The trick is not to be seen climbing off EITHER ... :beer:

[jasonu]

:killingme

you deserve to die in a manglement of automotive steel.

With riding skills like that there is a fair chance she probably will.

[FJRider]

With riding skills like that there is a fair chance she probably will.

If she's lucky ... she'll live longer than you.

Such is motorcycling ... get over it.

[Big Dog]

and like fat chic's they're cheap (to rego...)

and if you try to go to fast you get a bit of rebound... get too carried away and you bounce off the other side.

[FJRider]

... you deserve to die in a manglement of automotive steel.

YOU may not deserve it (regardless of what the general consensus of KB opinion is) ... but we live in the hope ... :sleep:

[mada]

It's not all too bad

http://www.theedge.co.nz/Producers-Revenge--Jay-Jays-nude-scooter-ride/tabid/106/articleID/34322/Default.aspx

[madbikeboy]

Misjudge any one of those six factors ... and regardless of (your) ability/skill/luck ... you could be toast.

And sometimes .... luck is all it is that keeps you alive. Don't knock it ...

Personally ... the warning voices in my head have saved the day a few times.

Without bad luck, I'd have no luck at all…

Seriously, my point is to rely on luck alone, like the rider has no input at all, is a childish argument.

[madbikeboy]

So you think everyone who crashes is a retard for not giving themselves enough time to brake. If you ride with an attitude like that you may very well become the next retard!!

I think anyone who crashes with monotonous regularity needs to work out what they're doing wrong, or find another pastime. I think you're a retard for more reasons than your inability to think far enough ahead to crash more than a few times without squeezing the brakes. Go find an instructor at a track day (one who has immense patience and the ability to communicate using small words).

[Akzle]

I think anyone who crashes with monotonous regularity needs to work out what they're doing wrong, or find another pastime. I think you're a retard for more reasons than your inability to think far enough ahead to crash more than a few times without squeezing the brakes. Go find an instructor at a track day (one who has immense patience and the ability to communicate using small words).

+rbjiap .

[FJRider]

Without bad luck, I'd have no luck at all…

Seriously, my point is to rely on luck alone, like the rider has no input at all, is a childish argument.

Without input .... luck is what you rely on.

If luck keeps you alive ... it may be attributed to your skill you are alive.

If whatever you rely on to keep you alive ... is it really a BAD thing ... if you remain ... ALIVE ... ???

[bogan]

No you are the retard as it's you and not me that has claimed I crash with monotonous regularity and if I had the problems you allege I would have given up riding long ago.

Why, is it ever-changing regularity instead? Cos it surely happens often; go off to your filling cabinet and give us a run down of the first 10 dates/incident titles you come across eh...

[madbikeboy]

No you are the retard as it's you and not me that has claimed I crash with monotonous regularity and if I had the problems you allege I would have given up riding long ago.

Quoting someone named cassina on page eight of this stupid thread: "All of my opponents in this debate are riding with the assumption that there will always be time to take evasive action should shit happen and I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake. ".

Few. Meaning more than once, but less than a lot. That's enough to be regular. Clearly written comprehension isn't your strongest skill. Nor riding without crashing. What are you good at, Petal? Perhaps your Mommy should have been more honest and less encouraging.

Oh dear. First day back on KiddieBiker and I'm going to get sin binned for being mean to the village idiot.

[madbikeboy]

Without input .... luck is what you rely on.

If luck keeps you alive ... it may be attributed to your skill you are alive.

If whatever you rely on to keep you alive ... is it really a BAD thing ... if you remain ... ALIVE ... ???

Hmm. Philosophy. … …

Can't argue. Bling for you.

[swtfa]

The Ultimate Cockblocking Moment...


http://www.hauraki.co.nz/video/random-funny/the-ultimate-cockblock-moment/

[jasonu]

The Ultimate Cockblocking Moment...


http://www.hauraki.co.nz/video/random-funny/the-ultimate-cockblock-moment/

Well that was a total waste of 2 minutes of my employers time.

[PrincessBandit]

The OP is right, scooters are depressing. I sold mine and that's depressing. :whistle:

Lol, Balu has owned two 650 Burgmans and misses them so much he's seriously considering another, despite having my bike to ride :dodge:

[FJRider]

Lol, Balu has owned two 650 Burgmans and misses them so much he's seriously considering another, despite having my bike to ride :dodge:

But ... it's a suzuki ... :doh:

[unstuck]

But ... it's a suzuki ... :doh:

At least it's not a Yamaha, that would be really sick.:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

At least it's not a Yamaha, that would be really sick.:msn-wink:

You're from Gore. You have no taste ... :whistle:

[husaberg]

You're from Gore. You have no taste ... :whistle:

He's from gore his taste stretch more towards the ovine............

[unstuck]

He's from gore his taste stretch more towards the ovine............

Faster than a scooter.:2thumbsup

[FJRider]

He's from gore his taste stretch more towards the ovine............

I'm thinking more ... Bovine .... :blank:

[husaberg]

Faster than a scooter.:2thumbsup

Never ridden either..........

[Big Dog]

http://www.therock.net.nz/Theres-no-bike-code-between-scooters/tabid/1454/articleID/35730/Default.aspx
http://www.therock.net.nz/One-way-to-cock-block-a-guy-trying-to-pick-up/tabid/1454/articleID/35692/Default.aspx

Gotta roll like this....