Why you should load the car BEFORE heading to the pub

[Tazz]

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/national_news/2014/12/tourist_driver_kayak_E1.jpg


A tourist caught driving with a kayak tied cross-ways across his car roof told shocked police that he was just trying to preserve his vehicle.

The tourist was pulled over after an officer spotted him with the dangerously wide load on State Highway 25 between Kopu and Hikuai on Sunday.

Inspector Freda Grace says the tourist defended his actions when the officer asked him what he was thinking.

"The driver was unrepentant, telling the officer that stopped him that if he secured the kayak long-ways as he is supposed to it would cause damage to the roof of his car.

"To make matters worse the Tairua officer was already on her way to a vehicle crash and this driver's behaviour could very easily have caused another. Imagine if he's encountered a cyclist driving like this?"

Mrs Grace says overseas tourists are believed have caused several recent crashes.

She says a Canadian driver is thought to be at fault for a two car collision in Athenree Gorge on Saturday that injured six people.

Another person was critically injured in a crash on Sunday where a Swiss driver crossed the centre line, she says.

"Driving conditions varied over the weekend from periods of heavy rain to fine weather. What didn't change were the actual roads.

"The various routes remained winding and offer quite a challenge to drivers irrespective of if they are used to European or North American highways or Auckland's Southern Motorway and all motorists need to be at their peak if we are to reach the beach this summer."

To make matters worse Facebook said he was Irish....:laugh:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/were-you-thinking-police-shocked-tourist-driver-6207304

[tigertim20]

I hope the copper bludgeoned the silly cunts face in with a baton. :bash:

and this prick might breed one day? . . . :crazy:

[jim.cox]

I hope the copper bludgeoned the silly cunts face in with a baton. :bash:

and this prick might breed one day? . . . :crazy:

Maybe its not his face that needs bludgeoning?

[MD]

I believe it. I hitch hiked around Ireland and still can't explain the dangerous, weird and bloody stupid driving I experienced.

[oldrider]

Heard that on the radio today ... had to laugh!

There was a guy parked in the center parks in Oamaru the other day with a long dinghy tied along the cab rack and deck crate!

OK you might think but the dinghy poked out over 3/4 the way across the lane behind his utility deck - no flag on it either!

Saw him heading out of town later (Around dusk) no lights no flags ... probably went right over to the West coast like that! :shifty:

[Swoop]

Imagine if he's encountered a cyclist driving like this?"
Well...

That IS a good idea!
Perhaps when there is a good gaggle of pscyclists all bunched up, pretending they're in the tour de frog.

I'd pay good money to see that!:2thumbsup

[willytheekid]

:crazy:sweet Jebus!

...all to save the roof of his car??:facepalm:

[Tazz]

:crazy:sweet Jebus!

...all to save the roof of his car??:facepalm:

And a Honda at that :laugh:

[skippa1]

Chainsaw would fix that

[Murray]

So maybe Mr Popo wasn't quite clear in what went on (could that ever be the case!!! Surely not)

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tourist-driver-hits-back-kiwi-cops-kayak-claims-6207876

Kat Klebenow responded on ONE News' Facebook page that she was a passenger in the car, and was "appalled" by the "lack of help" given by police.

"Our roof rack snapped in the storm. We pulled over no more than 10 metres ahead of when this damage was done," she wrote on Facebook.

"There are two sides to every story....its just that theirs is wrong."

[awa355]

TBH, I find it hard to to believe that the driver could have driven very far at all with the kayak in that position. He would've whacked a powerpole or bank at some stage, or people would have been phoning in about him. Maybe the front rack did twist and break away.

[Paul in NZ]

Speaking as an occasional kayaker.... I find it hard to believe anyone could be THAT dumb... and - if they are please alert the coastguard whenever he launch's what's left of his kayak...

[R650R]

I liked Paul Henrys take on it last night.... :)

I use a soft roof rack setup for mine and part of it gently touches the roof but I wouldn't say damage.... This all confirms my post in another thread that joe public should not be allowed trailers and now also roof racks....

[Ulsterkiwi]

I believe it. I hitch hiked around Ireland and still can't explain the dangerous, weird and bloody stupid driving I experienced.

Cant argue there are lots of halfwits in Ireland and bad drivers etc, about the same number as in New Zealand I would say. :innocent:

[jasonu]

So maybe Mr Popo wasn't quite clear in what went on (could that ever be the case!!! Surely not)

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tourist-driver-hits-back-kiwi-cops-kayak-claims-6207876

Kat Klebenow responded on ONE News' Facebook page that she was a passenger in the car, and was "appalled" by the "lack of help" given by police.

"Our roof rack snapped in the storm. We pulled over no more than 10 metres ahead of when this damage was done," she wrote on Facebook.

"There are two sides to every story....its just that theirs is wrong."

But wait there's more...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11375738

[Virago]

So maybe Mr Popo wasn't quite clear in what went on (could that ever be the case!!! Surely not)...

...Kat Klebenow responded on ONE News' Facebook page that she was a passenger in the car, and was "appalled" by the "lack of help" given by police.

"Our roof rack snapped in the storm. We pulled over no more than 10 metres ahead of when this damage was done," she wrote on Facebook...

Yes, and it appears that they then tied it on sideways on the one remaining roof-bar.. Nothing like bending the truth themselves, eh? The driver's own post on the TV1 facebook page basically confirms it.

The only thing the popo got wrong was the nationality of the driver - that and the warning only are the only things they're apologising for.

[haydes55]

Lets not ticket someone who is an obvious threat to the safety of every road user near by. But lets ticket someone for wafting down a straight road at 110km/h

[FJRider]

Cant argue there are lots of halfwits in Ireland and bad drivers etc, about the same number as in New Zealand I would say. :innocent:

At least in Ireland ... they can claim they're Irish ..... :shifty:

In NZ ... maybe they can claim they're from Auckland ... :innocent:

[Gremlin]

I suspect the officer is going to have sore knuckles... didn't check the licence? How often do you get asked for your licence when speaking to the police... every time for me...

So does this mean that all the Irish jokes will now be kiwi jokes? :confused:

[FJRider]

... So does this mean that all the Irish jokes will now be kiwi jokes? :confused:

What harm could it do ... :shutup:

[Paul in NZ]

Hes still as dumb as a turnip.... I have driven thousands of kms with kayaks on the roof and NO way would I haul that in poor weather without a bow line attached ... The flare on the bow alone generates significant lift/resistance... Vick and I were slammed by a sudden southerly front a few holidays back on the desert road which snapped a strong tie down on the front bar.... Would have lost the kayaks without the bow and stern secured... Maybe I'm just over anal....

[awayatc]

and this prick might breed one day? . . . :crazy:

Not likely.....
If he gets something the size of a kayak Sideways.....
what are the chances of getting something substantially smaller ths right way up and in....?

[FJRider]

Not likely.....
If he gets something the size of a kayak Sideways.....
what are the chances of getting something substantially smaller ths right way up and in....?

Foreigners ... eh ... !!! :rolleyes:

[RogIrwin]

I'm in favour of overseas drivers taking some kind of driving test. I couldn't count the number of stupid things on the road that I have witnessed. This includes camper vans holding up massive lines or traffic...

This guy may also prove that some kind of intelligence test is also required...

This has got to save more lives than ticketing people for doing 101km/h. They could charge for the tests to make up the revenue shortage.

[Big Dog]

Maybe I'm just over anal....

Lol.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Berries]

I'm in favour of overseas drivers taking some kind of driving test. I couldn't count the number of stupid things on the road that I have witnessed. This includes camper vans holding up massive lines or traffic... .
I have seen far more stupid shit from locals. What do we do about them?

[jasonu]

Lets not ticket someone who is an obvious threat to the safety of every road user near by. But lets ticket someone for wafting down a straight road at 101km/h

Fixed it for ya

[awayatc]

I have seen far more stupid shit from locals. What do we do about them?

They are doing the testing,

Or are given uniforms and vehicles with discolights.......

[JimO]

Maybe I'm just over anal....
does your boyfriend know?

[awayatc]

Can't be arsed......

got into some deep shit.......

[Paul in NZ]

does your boyfriend know?

I'll ask him when he gets back from his adventure ride - apparently he still likes dirt tracks so I guess not...

[buggerit]

So does this mean that all the Irish jokes will now be kiwi jokes? :confused:

Nah, Irish/Jaffa jokes, changing passports cant work miracles:stupid:

[haydes55]

This thread is going up shit creek with a sideways canoe.

[scumdog]

Lets not ticket someone who is an obvious threat to the safety of every road user near by. But lets ticket someone for wafting down a straight road at 110km/h

OK - if you say so...;)

[mossy1200]

I hope the copper bludgeoned the silly cunts face in with a baton. :bash:

and this prick might breed one day? . . . :crazy:

Not he tries to stick it in sideways.

[awa355]

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/Untitledpicture-42.png

Lucky he only had one kayak.
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/1.png

[Big Dog]

Tee hee hee.
http://www.3news.co.nz/iwitness/police-await-advice-on-overloaded-car-2014121715#axzz3M7GmANdI

[Ulsterkiwi]

Tee hee hee.
http://www.3news.co.nz/iwitness/police-await-advice-on-overloaded-car-2014121715#axzz3M7GmANdI

oh FFS :tugger:

[jasonu]

Tee hee hee.
http://www.3news.co.nz/iwitness/police-await-advice-on-overloaded-car-2014121715#axzz3M7GmANdI

Pushbikes don't weigh much. As long as they were all tied on safely and not obstructing the drivers vision I don't see a problem.

[R650R]

Hes still as dumb as a turnip.... I have driven thousands of kms with kayaks on the roof and NO way would I haul that in poor weather without a bow line attached ... The flare on the bow alone generates significant lift/resistance... Vick and I were slammed by a sudden southerly front a few holidays back on the desert road which snapped a strong tie down on the front bar.... Would have lost the kayaks without the bow and stern secured... Maybe I'm just over anal....

No that's good, long loads should always be secured at the extreme ends to stop rotation on longer trip.
Especially kayaks as you cant really crank the main straps down too tight before you start damaging the kayak. I use two strops in middle on 5 min hops down to the beach but any further and both ends get tied.
I think your strop that broke would have been from existing damage, it doesn't take much fraying/abrasion for them to be derated.
I was following a lady in UK on motorway that had a huge Indian canoe on top of her car, got on the brakes as soon as I saw it twitching before it went 90 deg and slid of the back of her roof to ski down the road. I managed to miss it in the truck.... wonder if there was a biker behind me who run it over and started a thread about it lol.....
Had another guy coming towards me once, was already worried about the angle sitting in ute tray pointing at the sky, he went over the railway lines and it launched like an ICBM!!! Stopped to help, silly old git had borrowed it off his brother and forgot to tie it down at all!

[Big Dog]

Pushbikes don't weigh much. As long as they were all tied on safely and not obstructing the drivers vision I don't see a problem.

As long as they are all ties on securely and do not exceed the width of the vehicle by standards etc you are quite right. They are not heavy, however a small car like that doesn't take much to destabilise it.

The bit I found funny is the police don't know if it is illegal or dangerous but stopped them anyway.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scumdog]

As long as they are all ties on securely and do not exceed the width of the vehicle by standards etc you are quite right. They are not heavy, however a small car like that doesn't take much to destabilise it.

The bit I found funny is the police don't know if it is illegal or dangerous but stopped them anyway.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

I guess they had to stop it to find out???:bleh:

[jasonu]

As long as they are all ties on securely and do not exceed the width of the vehicle by standards etc you are quite right. They are not heavy, however a small car like that doesn't take much to destabilise it.

The bit I found funny is the police don't know if it is illegal or dangerous but stopped them anyway.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.


I guess they had to stop it to find out???:bleh:

They did stop him but

"At this stage, I am waiting on advice from our Commercial Vehicle Investigation Unit on the best way to proceed," says Officer Lockwood. "They are the subject matter experts in regards to specific weight/dimension/loading offences."

I would have thought the cops would know this sort of thing on their own. IE max length, max height, is it securely tied down etc. Isn't that sort of stuff in the road code? Doesn't sound too difficult to me.

[Big Dog]

I guess they had to stop it to find out???:bleh:

One could argue that they don't know if you are smuggling drugs on your Harley. Should you get the finger because the local cop in the town you are passing through is a fan of Sons of Anarchy?
Or to enlist an American term: do they need probable cause?

It looks pretty unsafe. But then bicycles attached to cars usually do.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Virago]

They did stop him but

"At this stage, I am waiting on advice from our Commercial Vehicle Investigation Unit on the best way to proceed," says Officer Lockwood. "They are the subject matter experts in regards to specific weight/dimension/loading offences."

I would have thought the cops would know this sort of thing on their own. IE max length, max height, is it securely tied down etc. Isn't that sort of stuff in the road code? Doesn't sound too difficult to me.

An interesting point. If the cops themselves need to seek specialist legal advise to determine the legality of an indiviudal load, then how is Joe Public supposed to know? It seems that in this case, the driver is expected to know better than the cops - or else face prosecution.

[Big Dog]

That has always been the case. "Ignorance is no defence" is a line that was drilled into me during driving school, tax classes, school etc.

We were advised (esp around tax and traffic) you get prosecuted and it is up to you to show that you did not break the law.
Innocent until guilty only refers to did you do what you are accused of. Not did you break the law.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scumdog]

One could argue that they don't know if you are smuggling drugs on your Harley. Should you get the finger because the local cop in the town you are passing through is a fan of Sons of Anarchy?
Or to enlist an American term: do they need probable cause?

It looks pretty unsafe. But then bicycles attached to cars usually do.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Two different scenarios BD!

Now if I had what looks like on of Azkles cannabis plants strapped to my back while riding past a cop than I could see the similarity..

And in the bikes-on-car scenario - I guess there was 'probable cause'.

[Paul in NZ]

No that's good, long loads should always be secured at the extreme ends to stop rotation on longer trip.
Especially kayaks as you cant really crank the main straps down too tight before you start damaging the kayak. I use two strops in middle on 5 min hops down to the beach but any further and both ends get tied.
I think your strop that broke would have been from existing damage, it doesn't take much fraying/abrasion for them to be derated.
I was following a lady in UK on motorway that had a huge Indian canoe on top of her car, got on the brakes as soon as I saw it twitching before it went 90 deg and slid of the back of her roof to ski down the road. I managed to miss it in the truck.... wonder if there was a biker behind me who run it over and started a thread about it lol.....
Had another guy coming towards me once, was already worried about the angle sitting in ute tray pointing at the sky, he went over the railway lines and it launched like an ICBM!!! Stopped to help, silly old git had borrowed it off his brother and forgot to tie it down at all!

I have taken to using those little doofers that wedge under the bonnet leaving a little loop sticking through the fender/bonnet gap of late. They really are bloody good...

[Big Dog]

Two different scenarios BD!

Now if I had what looks like on of Azkles cannabis plants strapped to my back while riding past a cop than I could see the similarity..

And in the bikes-on-car scenario - I guess there was 'probable cause'.
A neighbours house got raided once. The lady over my back fence reported the Maori over my side fence for some suspicious plants.

Those suspicious plants were cherry tomatoes.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Tazz]

The retort saying they stopped in 10m and the cop was unfair is crackup. If anything the reporter might be fudging facts from both sides (as they do) but your kayak doesn't tie itself sideways like that all by its lonesome.


They did stop him but

"At this stage, I am waiting on advice from our Commercial Vehicle Investigation Unit on the best way to proceed," says Officer Lockwood. "They are the subject matter experts in regards to specific weight/dimension/loading offences."

I would have thought the cops would know this sort of thing on their own. IE max length, max height, is it securely tied down etc. Isn't that sort of stuff in the road code? Doesn't sound too difficult to me.

True. And with a generous weight of 25kg each the car couldn't be considered overloaded weight wise with just the driver in it otherwise loaded with 5 passengers it would also be breaking the law, so as long as the bikes were well secured it is only really a case of shock factor.

I'm sure it would have been within the max height, they are pretty generous.

[Big Dog]

The retort saying they stopped in 10m and the cop was unfair is crackup. If anything the reporter might be fudging facts from both sides (as they do) but your kayak doesn't tie itself sideways like that all by its lonesome.



True. And with a generous weight of 25kg each the car couldn't be considered overloaded weight wise with just the driver in it otherwise loaded with 5 passengers it would also be breaking the law, so as long as the bikes were well secured it is only really a case of shock factor.

I'm sure it would have been within the max height, they are pretty generous.

The suspension can easily be overloaded in some smaller cars just by putting a bum in every seat.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Tazz]

The suspension can easily be overloaded in some smaller cars just by putting a bum in every seat.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Man throw a decent fatty in and you can completely stuff up the handling of anything. In fact, the weight distribution of those bikes would probably be safer than a lard arse over one side of the car.

That said that sort of weight on the roof may cause other issues, but on the whole it looks a lot worse than it really is in my mind.

[FJRider]

That has always been the case. "Ignorance is no defence" is a line that was drilled into me during driving school, tax classes, school etc.



What about the "It's not my fault ... because it was an Accident " excuse ... that seems popular in this day and age ... ???? :shifty:

[FJRider]

... do they need probable cause?



NO ... :doh:


The random stopping of motor vehicles ... IS permitted under current New Zealand legislation ... :shifty:

[Big Dog]

NO ... :doh:


The random stopping of motor vehicles ... IS permitted under current New Zealand legislation ... :shifty:
Unless the rules have changed that is for very narrow and specific checks.
Warrant
Reg.
WoF.
Drivers license.
Breathalyser.

Beyond that they need whatever the NZ equivalent of probable cause, no? (should that be probe able)


"Persuant to the misuse of drugs" bit is supposed to be preambled by "Because of the <insert reason>" we will be searching your person and vehicle" or have I been watching too much TV and think we live in a land of milk and honey where we still have rights?
Unless that has been changed "under urgency" my understanding is they need cause such as a smell of dope or a lifeless form bound and gagged in the back seat.
From my past experience as a passenger... failing the attitude test is pretty much probable cause.




When can the Police stop and search my car, and do they need a warrant?

The Police may enter and search your vehicle if you give them permission or if they have a search warrant.

They can obtain a warrant to search your vehicle if they have reason to suspect that (i.e. it is almost certain that) an offence punishable by imprisonment is being (or has been, or is about to be) committed and they believe that there is evidence of it in or on the vehicle.

Circumstances in which a warrant is not required -
The Police can:

enter and search your vehicle without a warrant in order to check for alcohol in an area where a liquor ban is in force.
enter your vehicle without a warrant if they suspect there is an emergency. An emergency means a risk to life or safety of a person, of if an offence is being committed.

The Police may also enter and search your vehicle without a warrant if they have reason to suspect that (i.e. it is highly likely that):

someone in the vehicle has committed an offence for which a warrant is not required for an arrest, and they are trying to flee to avoid arrest
an occupant of the vehicle (including someone who has just got out of the vehicle) is unlawfully in possession of an offensive weapon or disabling substances
a firearms offence has, is, or is about to be committed in the vehicle, or that there is evidence relating to a firearms offence in the vehicle
someone in charge of the vehicle is carrying arms, or in control of arms, and:
is carrying them illegally; or
because of their physical or mental condition, they can’t be in proper control of the arms; or
because of their physical or mental condition, they might kill or injure someone; or
a protection order or police safety order is in force against them, or there are grounds for one to be made against them.

The Police can enter and search your vehicle without a warrant if they have reasonable grounds to believe that (i.e. it is almost certain that):

the vehicle contains evidence relating to a serious offence
someone in the vehicle is unlawfully at large (e.g. has escaped from prison or a warrant for their arrest is in force or committed an offence punishable for a prison sentence). In this case, they also have the power to stop your vehicle.
the vehicle contains illegal drugs (or substances for manufacturing them) or evidence that someone in the vehicle has, or is about to, manufacture or trade in illegal drugs and there is a risk that the evidence could be destroyed or hidden before a search warrant can be obtained
the vehicle contains stolen property



I don't by any means think you should be an egg like this guy... https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1013088138707679... if you ask me he would do well to provide the ky when they catch up with him.

[FJRider]

Unless the rules have changed that is for very narrow and specific checks.
Warrant
Reg.
WoF.
Drivers license.
Breathalyser.

Beyond that they need whatever the NZ equivalent of probable cause, no? (should that be probe able)


.

If the Cops opening line is ... Please blow into this (or similar) ... ALL bases are covered.

But the choice of ANY of those FIVE options you gave ... gives NO need of probable cause for a legal stop.

Stupid driving is not always the result of stupid people driving. Your vehicle or your driving should not attract the attention of Plod. If it will ... expect to be stopped.

[Big Dog]

If the Cops opening line is ... Please blow into this (or similar) ... ALL bases are covered.

But the choice of ANY of those FIVE options you gave ... gives NO need of probable cause for a legal stop.

Stupid driving is not always the result of stupid people driving. Your vehicle or your driving should not attract the attention of Plod. If it will ... expect to be stopped.

Aye. But if their opening line is take off your clothes, lift your balls, squat and cough you took a very wrong turn somewhere.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Personally I have only ever had a police officer enter a premise or vehicle at my request.

I did get stopped for warrant checks a lot on the Hayabusa. Oddly they rarely actually checked the WoF. Mostly they just oogled the bike. Talked about the bike they used to ride etc.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[FJRider]

Aye. But if their opening line is take off your clothes, lift your balls, squat and cough you took a very wrong turn somewhere.




I'll avoid Tuakau then ... <_<

[Big Dog]

I'll avoid Tuakau then ... <_<

Rofl.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[R650R]

Tee hee hee.
http://www.3news.co.nz/iwitness/police-await-advice-on-overloaded-car-2014121715#axzz3M7GmANdI

Actually in this the operation of the doors looks to be obstructed. I'm guestimating the weight to be around 300-400kg, so no different to having four fatties in the car.
I think he's right to stop them, even just to see if secured properly as it is outside what is considered normal use.
Wonder if there are actually any real laws about car roof racks or car roofs and max weight?

[Tazz]

A 27-36kg bike is a bit on the high side. Maybe the tandem but the average bike weight these days is sub 20 easily. Shit even my old Raleigh 20 would struggle to hit 15kg.

[jasonu]

. Shit even my old Raleigh 20 would struggle to hit 15kg.

How much with you on it?:whistle:

[Tazz]

How much with you on it?:whistle:

:laugh: depends on the time of the day and how much spice was in last nights curry.

[R650R]

A 27-36kg bike is a bit on the high side. Maybe the tandem but the average bike weight these days is sub 20 easily. Shit even my old Raleigh 20 would struggle to hit 15kg.

How many bikes do you count, I reckon at least 15 on that roof. My Trek slash 8 is 14.9 kg, a lot of lower spec bikes and downhill rigs are heavier than that... splitting hairs though, its an ugly load and the cop is well justified in investigating.

[Murray]

But was he speeding??

[jasonu]

But was he speeding??

If he was doing a death defying 101kmh then yes.