A Good Reason to Vote National!

[Dafe]

Courtesy of John Banks, Pacific Radio Talkback Host.

That reason is: Ida Hawkins.

Who is Ida Hawkins.......

Ida Hawkins is a woman on an invalid's benefit. It has taken her the past 10 years to put aside a little bit of money each week from that benefit, she has now saved enough money to purchase her daughters headstone.

Her daughter was Colleen Burrows, 15, who was kicked to death in Napier in 1987 by gang members when she refused to have sex with them.

In particular, one Sam TeHei was sentenced to prison for the murder which consisted of kicking the victim all over her body during a 30 minute period before she died, her brains having been kicked out.

Mrs Hawkins had previously saved $600 for a trip to Wellington to speak to parliament officials requesting assistance to pay for the headstone.
The government stating "We cannot help you in any way!"

As for Sam TeHei, 10 years on...
Sam TeHei has received $90,000 in tax payers money for compensation by the government for the way he was treated in Mangaroa prison, Hawkes Bay.

Sam TeHei is currently inline awaiting a second compensation payment of $25,000 for mistreatment at Paremoremo Prison in Auckland.

There are currently 211 criminals awaiting compensation payouts of our taxpayers money, by this government!

10 years on, Ida Hawkins will now be enjoying laying her daughter to rest with a Headstone to mark her memory.
:oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr:

BTW: A prison guard stated the $90,000 had been used on drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and sex.

[Storm]

That really makes me want to say very very bad words

[froggyfrenchman]

Its beyond words really. The heart bleeds for the poor mother and daughter. Scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum, what more can i say?

[Gremlin]

umm... am I missing something... why does this make us want to vote National??

Is it the compo?? I won't start anything there... words fail me... and I might use some very bad words the youngsters might not like...

[Dafe]

umm... am I missing something... why does this make us want to vote National??

Is it the compo?? I won't start anything there... words fail me... and I might use some very bad words the youngsters might not like...
Because the labour government pays too much of our taxpayers money to criminals for bullshit reasons and doesn't spend it on decent things, like the headstone for the mother.
I'd rather see 1500 spent on a headstone and the remainder of the $90,000 put to decent use.

[Gremlin]

ahh, but I reckon there was no need to even change the old system. First they changed it, realised they screwed up and then had to make a law about a law :oi-grr:

You did the crime, and although it doesn't completely make it right to randomly beat you up, its fun, and jail should never be a country club. If you hadn't brutally killed someone you wouldn't have been there in the first place.

*trying really hard not to rant...*

[Dafe]

Unfortunately, As loop holes are discovered, there is normally a requirement to counter it by changing the law.

[Gremlin]

Unfortunately, As loop holes are discovered, there is normally a requirement to counter it by changing the law.
yeah, plug it, not blow it wide open.

Parliament is answerable to no-one, so they do not have to actually listen to the courts and can override them anytime they like.

[Motu]

And you think this is caused by the Labour Government....and by putting National in all will be solved????? Sorry,it's world wide,nothing to do with Labour,National,Democrate or MotoGP,we would have to live in total isolation from the rest of the world to get away from this sort of crap.

[Dafe]

And you think this is caused by the Labour Government....and by putting National in all will be solved????? Sorry,it's world wide,nothing to do with Labour,National,Democrate or MotoGP,we would have to live in total isolation from the rest of the world to get away from this sort of crap.
Worldwide? Just what do you think happens to people commiting these crimes in Singaporean, taiwanese, vietnamese, burmese or chinese prisons???
Coz, they sure ain't paying them mistreatment compensation! :rofl: and they're not building themselves a wee empire from the confines of their luxury fortresses where they receive their tax payer funded university education, internet connections, tv and movie nights with their 3 square meals a day.
There is a reason behind the term "Club Paremoremo" you know!
I'm sure those countries aren't allowing the likes of Eugene Thomas to text innocent members of the public from their jail cells with sexual references either.

I'm not saying it's caused by labour, perhaps more so contributed to, by labour. I'm saying "I'm sick of criminals receiving tax payer money by using the system which the labour government has continued to have in place". It's a joke to society which Labour has accepted and continues to accept.

And I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with your comment that it has nothing to do with a party, hence government.
For it is the governments responsibility to enforce criminal punishment.
You would find crime in NZ on a major decline if NZ was enforced by the Singaporean government.

I'm also not saying all will be solved under National, Just that it will become realistic than the joke it is today!

All in all, your comments do help me understand the social adjustments required to be faced by a government wanting to alter the course, for the better.

[Motu]

We aren't Afganistan under the Taliban either where we could stone a girl to death for looking at another man,we are in New Zealand I'm afraid,a Western civilisation with Democracy,or something similar.You are welcome to go and live in Singapore or Taiwan,welcome to stay here too.You can grow your hair long and chew chewing gum if you like,drive a BIG car or motorcycle.Don't compare us to another country unless you are prepared to take on the whole culture....

[SuperDave]

I've got a great idea and I'm certain I'm not the first to think of it. I think that the government should not pay for prisoner's food, clothes, soap and what not. Sure government should pay for the prison buildings and the prison staff but everything else should be non-government funded. Therefore in order for prisoners to eat and have other essentials they will need to pay for this through their own money or if they can't then their family or friends will have to absorb the cost.

This way, those who deserve to die will die as a result, and they will suffer suitably. Of course there will have to be a more structured system deciding what crimes warrant this kind of punishment, ie the example first posted. I also would think that there should be limitations imposed on what they are allowed to receive or pay for whilst serving their term.

What ya reckon?

[MacD]

We aren't Afganistan under the Taliban either where we could stone a girl to death for looking at another man,we are in New Zealand I'm afraid,a Western civilisation with Democracy,or something similar.You are welcome to go and live in Singapore or Taiwan,welcome to stay here too.You can grow your hair long and chew chewing gum if you like,drive a BIG car or motorcycle.Don't compare us to another country unless you are prepared to take on the whole culture....

And of course the first thing you'd have to get used to is that you wouldn't be able to criticise the Government...

People seem to have a naive fantasy about totalitarian regimes that they would always be on the "right" side. Bizarre.

[Dafe]

You stated "Sorry,it's world wide,nothing to do with Labour,National,Democrate or MotoGP" I'm telling you it has everything to do with the Government.
Our justice system is one of the topics under fire this election. The rest of the country seem to think it has to do with the governing party! Why don't you, Motu?

[Motu]

Well,of course it's to do with the government,but it's not going to change with a change of government.A lot of policies governments put into place were started by the party in office previously - National carried on with Labours Rogernomics because they had to,Labour is doing the Kyoto bit because National signed up for it.Very little gets pulled apart,but lots gets added.Vote who you like,but don't expect overnight change.I don't expect my vote to change my world,it never has before.......otherwise we would all be riding Urals.

[Beemer]

umm... am I missing something... why does this make us want to vote National??

Is it the compo?? I won't start anything there... words fail me... and I might use some very bad words the youngsters might not like...

National is one of the parties supporting tougher sentences for violent offenders, Labour is not, I think that's the reasoning behind this.

And how's this for yet another kick in the guts for this woman?

"A campaign to get a better deal for victims of violent crime has fallen foul of a political decision within Television New Zealand.

TVNZ has told the Sensible Sentencing Trust it would not broadcast an advertisement featuring the mother of a teenager murdered 18 years ago when she refused to have sex with gang members in Napier.

In the advertisement, Ida Hawkins said she wanted a better deal for victims of violent crime.

She had had no help after her 15-year-old daughter Colleen Burrows was murdered in 1987. Sam Te Hei, one of her daughter's killers, had been given $90,000 in compensation after he claimed his human rights were breached in prison and could be in line for another $25,000.

Sensible Sentencing Trust spokesman Garth McVicar said in the television advertisement Mrs Hawkins wanted to expose the way she had been treated and the "gravy train" which criminals had latched on to for compensation.

The advertisement was due to be published last night but Mr McVicar said TVNZ decided it breached the Broadcasting Act.

In a letter to the trust, TVNZ said Section 70 of the Broadcasting Act 1989 prohibited any election programme being broadcast on television or radio if it was not paid for with monies allocated to a political party by the Electoral Commission.

He said TVNZ claimed an election programme was defined as a programme which encouraged voters to vote or not vote for a political party.

"We are staggered, absolutely staggered, shocked to be honest," Mr McVicar said.

He said the advertisement featured the parties which supported the trust's call for tougher sentences for violent crimes. It mentioned ACT, National, New Zealand First, and United Future.

It gave voters an informed choice but did not encourage voters to vote or not to vote for any party.

He said the Labour Party would not support the call for tougher sentences for violent offenders.

"We are not saying vote for anybody. We are saying this is the situation."

The trust wanted voters to be informed when casting their vote.

He said the advertisement would have cost the trust $10,000 to broadcast.

"It is gagging freedom of speech."

He said the trust was apolitical and had worked with all political parties.

"But we don't mince our words if we think the system is breaking down," he said.

He said Mrs Hawkins was absolutely furious and after being helped to climb out of a dark emotional hole by the trust, the "system seems to belt her back down into it".

He said there was not the time or the resources to appeal the TVNZ decision.

TVNZ company secretary Noel Vautier, said he made the decision to drop the advertisement yesterday when it was brought to his attention.

"It is discouraging voters from voting Labour or a Labour-led Government and encouraging them to vote for a National-led Government."

He said the decision could not be appealed and the advertisement could not be run next week because it was an election programme.

He said TVNZ and the Sensible Sentencing Trust had a different interpretation of the advertisement under the terms of the act."

[Dafe]

Interesting, because what I didn't tell you is that the policy claimed upon by Sam TeHei, was infact one put in place by National under Jenny Shipley's era.
However, the issue is that with two terms in office, Labour has failed to alter the system when the system has begun collapsing.
A change can happen very quick indeed, It's only the passing of a bill afterall.
When the system begins to fail us, the current government needs to address the problem urgently, rather than sit on it for at least two years whilst it costs you and I.
It's not so much an issue of who put the law in place, as laws added later can end up creating the loop holes and opening the doors to vulnerabiliity.

[What?]

National is one of the parties supporting tougher sentences for violent offenders, Labour is not...
Does not mean they will change anything should they take power this weekend. How many election promises have you ever seen kept? I can only think of one (Lange's anti-nuke policy).
Sorry, but I agree with Motu - a change of govt is not going to change the crap situation with the penal system. Or much else.

[Lou Girardin]

There has not been any compelling reason to vote for any party this election, other than the hip pocket.
None of them have propounded a vision for where they want to take New Zealand other than the usual cliches.
They both blame each other for policies they either introduced, or failed to change.
Threads like this that expect people will vote because of one isolated issue are naive.
The best we can hope for is the lesser of two evils. Which is why I'm not voting for Nat s or Labour.

[Biff]

And voting National would have convinced the thugs not to kill her? And a National govt would have given her taxpayers money for a head stone?

We're getting a little desperate here me thinks.

[esspro]

One thing that really pissed me off recently was on the last issue of Police 10 7. One guy did a runner in a stolen car from the cops and in the end hsi car got spiked.. he then fled from the car and got caught by a police dog as well as his passenger (who also fled). Upon bringing them back to the station they let the passenger go scotch free because he "didn't know the car was stolen"... bullshit... after a half hour police chase you didn't think that possibly the car might have been stolen... and when you get picked up by your mate in a car you've never seen before you don't ask any questions about where it came from?

And the main thing that pissed me off is not only had the driver admitted to stealing cars he also was found to be involved in violent crime, multiple house breakins and theft as well as having 6 warrants for his arrest... and he got - a menial fine and community service!! WTF!! after stealing a car and running from police at over 100kms through a residential zone and all the other stuff he ADMITTED to... makes me want to become a crim

[Beemer]

Does not mean they will change anything should they take power this weekend. How many election promises have you ever seen kept? I can only think of one (Lange's anti-nuke policy).
Sorry, but I agree with Motu - a change of govt is not going to change the crap situation with the penal system. Or much else.

No, it doesn't mean anything would necessarily change if Labour was kicked out this weekend, and if anyone votes for a party because of ONE policy of theirs, they deserve the government they get!

But the fact is, Labour will not come out in support of tougher sentences for violent offenders whereas these other parties will. It doesn't mean they will rush out and implement policies once they are in power, but it does mean they are aware there is a problem and think something should be done about it.

[Pathos]

I remember this being a news story a while ago before the money had been given.

Labour promised that legislation would go through so that all money won my the inmates would go to the victims family.

Obviously that hasn't happened.

[Beemer]

Upon bringing them back to the station they let the passenger go scotch free...

Well, I should hope so, I don't want my hard-earned tax dollars going towards free whisky for crims. And besides, then they would have had to process him for drink driving... :rofl:

[MSTRS]

Well, I should hope so, I don't want my hard-earned tax dollars going towards free whisky for crims. And besides, then they would have had to process him for drink driving... :rofl:
Absolutely....course it could have been Whiskey. :dodge:
BTW Luv yr siggy

[Beemer]

Absolutely....course it could have been Whiskey. :dodge:
BTW Luv yr siggy

Nope, you're wrong there - Scotch is spelled whisky, and Irish is whiskey!

BTW - couldn't resist it!

[kerryg]

I remember this being a news story a while ago before the money had been given.

Labour promised that legislation would go through so that all money won my the inmates would go to the victims family.

Obviously that hasn't happened.


Yes, that's righty. Phil Goff was pretty hot about the whole thing but it seems to have faded into the background. Maybe it will get some attention again now that this woman's situation has had some publicity.

It's impossible not to feel outrage that a killer, and especially such a brutal killer, can be collecting big payouts from the taxpayer but I heard the case argued and it's interesting: under all the conventions of international law it is not legally right (the morality might be a different matter though!) for the Crown or victims or whomever to lay claim to money paid to prisoners for mistreatment in prison or other (arguably legitimate) grievances. The penalty determined by the Courts, if it is 10 years' imprisonment or whatever, is the totality of the penalty. If a prisoner is legitimately and legally awarded compensation for something (e.g. treatment in prison that is outside the bounds of what is reasonable and of what the Courts envisioned) that is in pretty much the same category as you or me getting compensation for something: it's nobody's business but my own. The lawyer I heard arguing about on National Radio made a very persuasive case, aying that any attempt by Phil Goff or anyone else to distrain (is that the word?) the compensation moneys paid in such circumstances would expose NZ's legal system to international ridicule.

Let me be clear: if it was my kid was kicked to death by that animal, I would want him not merely imprisoned but disembowelled while being kept alive as long as possible and then fed into a mincer, starting with his goolies (and NOT his pudenda, cos he's a boy :slap: ) and fed to the seagulls. My point is not to defend the case for letting him keep his money. Emphatically he is not morally entitled to live, let alone to get compensation, but the legalities are not straightforward

[MSTRS]

Nope, you're wrong there - Scotch is spelled whisky, and Irish is whiskey!


Ye think Ah didnae ken thart?
There are plenty out there who think (e) is just as good and will try to do a 'Jim' with it.

[MSTRS]

Let me be clear: if it was my kid was kicked to death by that animal, I would want him not merely imprisoned but disembowelled while being kept alive as long as possible and then fed into a mincer, starting with his pudenda, and fed to the seagulls. My point is not to defend the case for letting him keep his money. Emphatically he is not morally entitled to live, let alone to get compensation, but the legalities are not straightforward
Hear Hear.....but his pudenda??

[kerryg]

Hear Hear.....but his pudenda??


:Oops: :dodge: ..I thought it was applicable to both genders ....ahem....ah well, at least I've learnt something today...

[Beemer]

Ye think Ah didnae ken thart?
There are plenty out there who think (e) is just as good and will try to do a 'Jim' with it.

No problem with the 'e' when it's on an Irish bottle - if it comes from the U S of A, then I'm sorry, it ain't whisk(e)y of any description!

[What?]

About time another thread got hijacked and turned into a whisky thread!
Glenlivet or Glenmorangie? - that is the question... :Punk:

[froggyfrenchman]

Im not gonna vote, have never seen any of the bribes(i mean policys) followed through

[SPman]

Worldwide? Just what do you think happens to people commiting these crimes in Singaporean, taiwanese, vietnamese, burmese or chinese prisons???
Coz, they sure ain't paying them mistreatment compensation! :rofl: and they're not building themselves a wee empire from the confines of their luxury fortresses where they receive their tax payer funded university education, internet connections, tv and movie nights with their 3 square meals a day.
There is a reason behind the term "Club Paremoremo" you know!
I'm sure those countries aren't allowing the likes of Eugene Thomas to text innocent members of the public from their jail cells with sexual references either.

I'm not saying it's caused by labour, perhaps more so contributed to, by labour. I'm saying "I'm sick of criminals receiving tax payer money by using the system which the labour government has continued to have in place". It's a joke to society which Labour has accepted and continues to accept.

And I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with your comment that it has nothing to do with a party, hence government.
For it is the governments responsibility to enforce criminal punishment.
You would find crime in NZ on a major decline if NZ was enforced by the Singaporean government.

I'm also not saying all will be solved under National, Just that it will become realistic than the joke it is today!

All in all, your comments do help me understand the social adjustments required to be faced by a government wanting to alter the course, for the better.
What a crock of shit!
Glenlivet

[oldrider]

The Labour led coalition Government will be back again on Saturday so they will still have a chance to correct the wrongs addressed in this thread. Yeah right, as they say in the Tui adds. The results will most likely be:

Lefties
Labour
Progressive
Greens

Center
National (Largest Party)

Fence Sitters
United Future
Maori
NZ 1st

Right
Nill

Labour will lead a coalition govt aided by the fence sitters. :puke:

We will see. Cheers John.

[What?]

So you prefer a blend to a single malt, Oldrider??

[oldrider]

No, that is what I thought the outcome would be. Not too far off eh!
Me personally? I would like better quality than any of the above are offering! John.

[marty]

So you prefer a blend to a single malt, Oldrider??

Dunno bout Oldrider, but i'm just back from Sydney with $150 worth of 2 bottles of duty free single malt. 1 x Laphroaig, 1 x Glenmorangie.

Oh how I'm going to enjoy those :)

[What?]

... 1 x Laphroaig, 1 x Glenmorangie.

Oh how I'm going to enjoy those :)
A man of taste!

[Wolf]

People seem to have a naive fantasy about totalitarian regimes that they would always be on the "right" side. Bizarre.
Of course. I know a couple of people who actively advocate bringing back the rope who would be the first to perish on it if we did.