Courts problem

[lukehyslop]

A few months ago I got a minor speeding fine (in a cage). Because I wanted to go for CBTA I requested to the police that my case be heard in court. This was to try to keep the points off my licence until I did my cbta. Anyway the police said that they would transfer the case to the courts and that they were out of the loop so to speak. Two months later I got a letter from the courts saying that they had heard the case had been heard in my absence and here was my fine plus court costs etc etc. I never received a summons to the hearing.

Does anyone have any idea what I do from here. I rang the number on the notice but typically got the collections department who couldn't help me.

[Jantar]

A few months ago I got a minor speeding fine (in a cage). Because I wanted to go for CBTA I requested to the police that my case be heard in court. This was to try to keep the points off my licence until I did my cbta. Anyway the police said that they would transfer the case to the courts and that they were out of the loop so to speak. Two months later I got a letter from the courts saying that they had heard the case had been heard in my absence and here was my fine plus court costs etc etc. I never received a summons to the hearing.

Does anyone have any idea what I do from here. I rang the number on the notice but typically got the collections department who couldn't help me.

I have had this happen to me twice.

What you do now is got to the Registrar at your local court with a copy of your letter to the police, and their reply, and request that the case be reheard. Both times that I have done this the verdict and fine has been wiped, and the case hasn't come to court.

[scumdog]

I have had this happen to me twice.

What you do now is got to the Registrar at your local court with a copy of your letter to the police, and their reply, and request that the case be reheard. Both times that I have done this the verdict and fine has been wiped, and the case hasn't come to court.

Good call Jantar, not had any experience of this kind of case but have already PM'ed lukehyslop about it.

[Lou Girardin]

I have had this happen to me twice.

What you do now is got to the Registrar at your local court with a copy of your letter to the police, and their reply, and request that the case be reheard. Both times that I have done this the verdict and fine has been wiped, and the case hasn't come to court.

Aha! a loophole. Court clerk stupidity.

[Ramius]

A few months ago I got a minor speeding fine (in a cage). Because I wanted to go for CBTA I requested to the police that my case be heard in court. This was to try to keep the points off my licence until I did my cbta. Anyway the police said that they would transfer the case to the courts and that they were out of the loop so to speak. Two months later I got a letter from the courts saying that they had heard the case had been heard in my absence and here was my fine plus court costs etc etc. I never received a summons to the hearing.

Does anyone have any idea what I do from here. I rang the number on the notice but typically got the collections department who couldn't help me.

File a Form 57 at court. I requested a hearing and did not get a date. The collections dept should have been easily able to tell you this!

Section 78B of the Summary Proceedings Act, 1957:
Power To Correct Irregularities In Proceedings For Infringement Offences:

(1)--This section shall apply to a defendant who,--

(a) On the filing of a copy of a reminder notice pursuant to section 21 of this Act, is deemed to have been ordered to pay a fine and costs; or

(b) On the hearing conducted following the filing of a notice of hearing pursuant to section 21 of this Act, is ordered to pay a fine or costs, or both.

(2) Where a District Court Judge [or Registrar], on the application of a defendant to whom this section applies, is satisfied, whether on the basis of a statutory declaration or evidence given before the Judge, that--

(a) The defendant did not in fact receive the reminder notice, or a copy of the notice of hearing, required to have been served on the defendant pursuant to section 21 of this Act; or

(b) Some other irregularity occurred in the procedures leading up to the order for the fine or costs, or both,--

the Judge [or, subject to subsection (3) of this section, the Registrar,] may do one or more of the following:

(c) Set aside or modify the order:

(d) Grant a hearing or rehearing of the matter and proceed with the hearing or rehearing immediately or set it down for a later date:

(e) Authorise or require another copy of the reminder notice or notice of hearing to be served on the defendant, and for that purpose require the defendant to specify an address at which personal service, service by post, or service by either method may be effected:

(f) Make any other order as to costs or otherwise that the Judge [or Registrar] considers appropriate in the circumstances.

(3) Where a Registrar exercises power under subsection (2) of this section, the Registrar shall not have authority to set aside or modify the order under subsection (2) (c) of this section.

(4) Where a Registrar exercises a power under paragraph (d) or paragraph (e) of subsection (2) of this section, the order made or deemed to have been made against the defendant shall cease to have effect.

(5) Where a defendant granted a rehearing pursuant to this section does not appear at the rehearing, the Court may, if it thinks fit, without rehearing the matter, direct that the original order be restored.

[lukehyslop]

Hey I filed a form 57 using:
The defendant did not in fact receive the reminder notice, or a copy of the notice of hearing, required to have been served on the defendant pursuant to section 21 of this Act; or
As my reasoning. I got a letter saying declined. The Registrar is not satisfied that you have sufficient grounds to have your application granted under this section.

WTF is up with that of course I wont go to the hearing if I dont get a summons about it. Is there anything I can do from here? file another form 57?

[Jantar]

From here it depends on just what you are trying to achieve. if it is in fact just a delaying tactic, then take it on the chin and pay up.

If you feel that you do have a reasonable defence to the speeding charge, then write to the registrar as soon as possible stating that you are considering appealing to the high court. Ask for copies of court documents that were supposed to have been sent to you including the original summons.

Note that an appeal will be costly. That is why if it is just a delaying tactic it wouldn't be worth it.

[Ramius]

Hey I filed a form 57 using:
The defendant did not in fact receive the reminder notice, or a copy of the notice of hearing, required to have been served on the defendant pursuant to section 21 of this Act; or
As my reasoning. I got a letter saying declined. The Registrar is not satisfied that you have sufficient grounds to have your application granted under this section.

WTF is up with that of course I wont go to the hearing if I dont get a summons about it. Is there anything I can do from here? file another form 57?

In this case, you have said you have tried 2 different tacks. You can only apply for one or the other. You would only apply for not receiving notice of hearing if you in fact did request a hearing in writing to the prosecuting authority, I would assume in this case, it is the police.
As for not receiving the reminder notice, you have to provide evidence that you were not at the address stated on the reminder notice at around about the time that it was sent. Whether you were in the country or not. If you cannot prove either of these, you are shit out of luck.

Hope this helps, any more questions, just yell out.

[What?]

If you really want to waste some dosh, sue the clerk in a civil action for failure to ensure you recieved your summons. But as all you are trying to do is avoid collecting demerit points, you likely won't go there, will you?
You could also write a letter of complaint to the minister for courts, and copy your local MP - this will cost you naff-all and might even achieve something. Maybe.

Who's who: http://www.clerk.parliament.govt.nz/

[Lou Girardin]

As for not receiving the reminder notice, you have to provide evidence that you were not at the address stated on the reminder notice at around about the time that it was sent. Whether you were in the country or not. If you cannot prove either of these, you are shit out of luck.
t.

I don't think he has to prove anything. They have to prove service.

[FzerozeroT]

I filed a form 57 due to not recieving a ticket reminder and getting collection costs, never got a letter that said "we don't believe you didn't get the first letter" and because I didn't reply to the second letter within 14/28 days it got finalised as guilty, of course once they got that they gave me a ring and told me to pay up. Bunch of cunts.

[lukehyslop]

Well I'm done with trying to delay and stall etc so I guess I will just pay up. What really makes me angry is though:
1) I asked the police for a hearing and they did the hearing in my absence without sending me a summons.
2) I filed a form 57 (the clerk at the court did it for me) and they declined it meaning that they either didn't even read it or they dont believe me that I didn't receive the summons. Incidentally they have been sending all my letters to my residential address when they shold have gone to my postal address (which they have on record) so quite understandable for something to not get delivered.
3) There is nothing I can realistically do about it.

I guess I'll just pay up but I'm going to write a letter to the local MP though

[froggyfrenchman]

Ah yes, the new zealand justice system. Need i say any more?

[Storm]

No but I'll give you a hand

%&%%^ ^%^$&*(* & ## $

(kept it kiddy friendly)

[What?]

If you are writing to your MP, DO NOT PAY UP!
If said MP is any use, you may even get the fine wiped, as well as no points.

Make sure you notify the clerk of the court that you have taken the matter to your MP - otherwise the bailiffs might show up.

[Str8 Jacket]

If you are writing to your MP, DO NOT PAY UP!
If said MP is any use, you may even get the fine wiped, as well as no points.

Make sure you notify the clerk of the court that you have taken the matter to your MP - otherwise the bailiffs might show up.


Sorry What, this aint gonna happen.... I worked as a fines collector for 18+ months and now work "behind the scenes" for MOJ collections. You'd be amazed at how many people think this- it just doesn't happen. At the least the fine may be "sent back" to the police authority for reconsideration, but if the Police decide you have to pay it and you don't it is then sent back to the court system, where if not paid then enforcement action can be taken by the courts and the person forced to pay. What im trying to say is that it doesn't matter who you try to get to help you out, if the fine is in court and the issuing authority (being the police) will not withdraw it then you have to pay....
Your best bet is to take proof of your POSTAL address as opposed to your PHYSICAL address back to the DC with the failed form 57, demand to speak to a Team Leader and explain what you have already posted previously. This may not work , but believe me not all courts staff are sadistic evil clowns...

[Ramius]

If you really want to waste some dosh, sue the clerk in a civil action for failure to ensure you recieved your summons. But as all you are trying to do is avoid collecting demerit points, you likely won't go there, will you?
You could also write a letter of complaint to the minister for courts, and copy your local MP - this will cost you naff-all and might even achieve something. Maybe.

Who's who: http://www.clerk.parliament.govt.nz/

And that will get quashed before you can even file the papers. As for writing, what is the purpose? If you did something wrong, grow some balls and pay your dues!

[Ramius]

I don't think he has to prove anything. They have to prove service.

Yes, he does have to prove it. They don't. As long as the papers have been sent to the correct address, it is, by the letter of the law, served. If for some reason the person was not at the address, then prove it.

[Ramius]

I filed a form 57 due to not recieving a ticket reminder and getting collection costs, never got a letter that said "we don't believe you didn't get the first letter" and because I didn't reply to the second letter within 14/28 days it got finalised as guilty, of course once they got that they gave me a ring and told me to pay up. Bunch of cunts.

Get over it.

[Ramius]

Well I'm done with trying to delay and stall etc

Stop piss arsing about and just pay the bloody thing. It would make the whole of New Zealand sleep easier.

For any legal information relating to fines etc etc... check out the Summary Proceedings Act 1957

Cheers

(I never had my weetbix this morning, so I am ANGRY!)

[Str8 Jacket]

Stop piss arsing about and just pay the bloody thing. It would make the whole of New Zealand sleep easier.

For any legal information relating to fines etc etc... check out the Summary Proceedings Act 1957

Cheers

(I never had my weetbix this morning, so I am ANGRY!)

Ah only this kind of cynicsm could come form an ex fines collector! You must be an ex-MOJ employee. Still suffering from the anxiety of the job eh?

Its a shame but Ramius is correct Luke....

[What?]

Nice clarity Str8 Jacket. :niceone:
Also nice to know that there is at least one human working for the MOJ...

[Ramius]

Ah only this kind of cynicsm could come form an ex fines collector! You must be an ex-MOJ employee. Still suffering from the anxiety of the job eh?

Its a shame but Ramius is correct Luke....

Been out of action, but still an employee. I just don't have time for the death threats, the violence, the swearing, the pathetic Wombats who think that it is their right to break the law, Makes me oh so proud to call myself a New Zealander. :whocares:

[hobdar]

Time to start an MOJ branch of Kiwi Biker....there are at least 3 or 4 bikers at WNDC that i know of....time to start dropping kiwi biker leaflets on bikes.....

[Str8 Jacket]

Time to start an MOJ branch of Kiwi Biker....there are at least 3 or 4 bikers at WNDC that i know of....time to start dropping kiwi biker leaflets on bikes.....

Yea, but if we do that then MOJ will know where I spend a good part of my day when Im supposed to be working.... :whistle:

[Psalm42]

MOJ? Should Read MOL. Law. There is no justice in that system, just proceedure. Pay the fine, and remember if you want conveniance smile and pay. If you want Justice know your rights before you open your mouth.

[inlinefour]

A few months ago I got a minor speeding fine (in a cage). Because I wanted to go for CBTA I requested to the police that my case be heard in court. This was to try to keep the points off my licence until I did my cbta. Anyway the police said that they would transfer the case to the courts and that they were out of the loop so to speak. Two months later I got a letter from the courts saying that they had heard the case had been heard in my absence and here was my fine plus court costs etc etc. I never received a summons to the hearing.

Does anyone have any idea what I do from here. I rang the number on the notice but typically got the collections department who couldn't help me.

I thought they was obliged to hadnd a summons in person???

[terbang]

They are still chasing me for a parking fine from 1987! I have no Idea what they are talking about and they inform me that I have no way out! They ring me up from time to time demanding payment of around $90 now for a fine that ws origionally $27. It is so frustrating talking to stupid people who cannot even come up with any paperwork as to where I got it and can only say that it is on their computer and I must pay and threaten all sorts of consequences..Yeah Right..I just string them along for a while running up hefty phone bills that will easily now be in excess of the $90. I even had calls when I was living in Australia. When I advised the caller that he had rung an Aiustralian number he seemed surprised and muttered something about wondering about the length of the number he had just rung. I argued with this twit for 30 minutes to establish that he had no authority to collect it in Australia..Duh..
:shake:

[Str8 Jacket]

They are still chasing me for a parking fine from 1987! I have no Idea what they are talking about and they inform me that I have no way out! They ring me up from time to time demanding payment of around $90 now for a fine that ws origionally $27. It is so frustrating talking to stupid people who cannot even come up with any paperwork as to where I got it and can only say yhat it is on their computer and I must pay..Yeah Right..I just string them along for a while running up hefty phone calls that will easily now be in excess of the $90. I even had calls when I was living in Australia.
:shake:

hmmm, although I understand your frustration these stupid people (being me) are only doing their job. Have you thought to actually TALK to these stupid people? You may find that you were contacted about this fine originally (1980's) which means there are notes to say so on your profile, yes notes do date back to 1980. If so, then you were aware of the fine and you are liable to pay it. If you can HONESTLY say that you were never contacted and there are no notes on your profile to prove this then I would go to the DC and talk to a Team Leader, you may be eligible to file a form 57. From the looks of your attitude you will have to pay it. Believe me, piss an officer of the court of and they'll get you.
And yes you will get calls in Aussie about your fines. I am one of those stupid people that sit on the net all day doing Track and Trace, looking for idiots such as yourself in fact we search for ANYONE who owes fines and are not paying them so everyone be warned.
My advise for you terbang is to just get over yourself stop busting a gut over a $90 fine, which you may find will stop you from going overseas or arrivng from overseas until it is sorted. If you have issues with the fine, blame the poeple that ISSUED you the fine ie, THE COUNCIL and not the poor fines collectors who are just doing their job!

[terbang]

Str8 jacket I am not really busting my gut over a $90 dollar fine in fact I normally don't give it very much thought and at around $5 per year I will have no problem eventually paying it. Anyone who rings me up in Australia without realising that they have rung international is stupid. By the tone of your post I suspect a few veins bulging in you neck over a $90 fine from 18 years ago. It also gives me an insight as to the potential of cynical, vindictive and small minded people that are within our justice system that obviously doesn't have any more pressing issues to deal within our society. When you do catch me how do you want it Cheque, Visa or Cash..?

[Str8 Jacket]

Str8 jacket I am not really busting my gut over a $90 dollar fine in fact I normally don't give it very much thought and at around $5 per year I will have no problem eventually paying it. Though by the sound of your post I am left with the impression that there are some veins bulging on you neck over a $90 fine from 18 years ago. When you do catch me how do you want it Cheque, Visa or Cash..?

Hey dude, im NOT a fines collector I WAS one and I had to deal with idiots all the time.... Pay it how you want, or don't. I really dont give a flying fu*k mate, but just think before you start spouting stuff of when you don't have all the facts.
The courts are like Baycorp, the issuing authority passes the imposition to the courts and the courts have no choice but to collect it unless the issuing authority withdraws it. If you clocked up a huge debt with a finance company by not paying it and they passed it onto Baycorp you would know without argument that you had to pay it or lose your credit rating... just so you could understand.

[terbang]

Originally Posted by Str8 Jacket
Believe me, piss an officer of the court of and they'll get you.
Believe me, piss an officer of the court off over a $27 parking fine from 1987 and not too many really care a damn.

Baycorp is a business, and is still in business, and doesn't spend 18 years and much taxpayer dollars in excess of the fine, taking up Court, Police and Border rescoursces over $27.

[Str8 Jacket]

oh *sigh* you still going on...

[terbang]

OK you got a point there Jacket I do go on a bit, like yer bike.. :rockon:

[Str8 Jacket]

lol! I give up, some people are just always gonna be idiots! :thud:

[lukehyslop]

Well I paid my fine up today + court costs just to get it over with. Wankers.

[geoffm]

$90 they will chase you to the end of the earth. Wait until it is $30,000 and then they will write it of fand you are away scot free
Geoff

[Winston001]

Haven't been into this sub-forum before but there is clearly some fun to be had. :wari:

Ramius and St8 Jacket are correct and have given good advice.

What is being overlooked is that traffic fines are a Summary offence. That means they are dealt with summarily. The law permits an officer to issue an instant fine - pay it if you want to. Payment is a guilty plea.

If you do nothing, the District Court sends you an infringement notice by post. You then must advise the Court that you want to plead not guilty at a hearing. They set a hearing usually presided over by Justices of the Peace.

The infringement process is not a summons. A summons has to be personally served on you.

If you don't turn up for the hearing, then the only evidence is what the prosecution (Police, local council parking, dog control, fish and game etc etc) present to the Court. Or if you ignore the infringement notice - same thing. Inevitably a conviction is entered followed by a fine and court costs.

[terbang]

Yep thats written all over the back of the ticket an all.
Your point being?

[terbang]

Yep thats written all over the back of the ticket an all.
Your point being?


lol! I give up, some people are just always gonna be idiots! :thud:

Yep like you say real good advice

[Str8 Jacket]

Yep thats written all over the back of the ticket an all.
Your point being?



Yep like you say real good advice


lol, yeah.... :zzzz:

[Winston001]

My point being that various people will read this thread and perhaps they will understand the summary procedure system better. Hey - we're here to help each other. :doobey:

[Skyryder]

A few months ago I got a minor speeding fine (in a cage). Because I wanted to go for CBTA I requested to the police that my case be heard in court. This was to try to keep the points off my licence until I did my cbta. Anyway the police said that they would transfer the case to the courts and that they were out of the loop so to speak. Two months later I got a letter from the courts saying that they had heard the case had been heard in my absence and here was my fine plus court costs etc etc. I never received a summons to the hearing.

Does anyone have any idea what I do from here. I rang the number on the notice but typically got the collections department who couldn't help me.

If you want to go down the road of defending your actions by all means go for it. There is an importan princple at stake here. Your right to defend yourself. The Police by not notifying you of your date in court needs to be investigated as to why this did not happen. That's your first line of defence. Write to the Police Commissoner asking this question giveing all relevent details. Send a copy of this letter to your Local MP with CC etc.

In short the Police have fucked up and your rights have been violated. That's a strong word but untill you have been given a reason as to why the Police or the Justice Department did not notify you then at this point you have no evidence to the contrary. This you can win but don't get personal, keep the letter breif, and no need to go in great detail about the offence. Make a lot of noise if neccessary.

Skyryder

Skyryder

[slopster]

Actually I sent a letter to police commisioner and minister of justice and the local electorate MP. I didn't ask them to do anything about it but just made a complaint about the way things were handled.

[Str8 Jacket]

Actually I sent a letter to police commisioner and minister of justice and the local electorate MP. I didn't ask them to do anything about it but just made a complaint about the way things were handled.



hehe ive just a few beers. Im LMAO right now, would you like your own cheer leading team?? :apumpin:

[Str8 Jacket]

Jesus you fullas are a bit slow, you've only just given me red rep now?!.......... Its funny how some people only want advice that they like the sound of, eh?! <_<