Annual road toll up 44

[Akzle]

...the head of the NZ Water Safety Council's comments on the amount of drownings of late and the fact that they are all males could easily slide in here as relevant...

were they muddercyclists, or internet heroes?

[Madness]

...the head of the NZ Water Safety Council's comments on the amount of drownings of late and the fact that they are all males could easily slide in here as relevant...he believes the cause is, being unaware of the dangers and an inflated sense of ones capabilities...sound familiar?...

I thought Jesus could walk on water?

[Edbear]

...the head of the NZ Water Safety Council's comments on the amount of drownings of late and the fact that they are all males could easily slide in here as relevant...he believes the cause is, being unaware of the dangers and an inflated sense of ones capabilities...sound familiar?...

The younger ones tend to dismiss or minimise the dangers especially if warned by older people or authorities. And, yes, an inflated view of their capabilities is normal for their age having not generally had to face their limitations as most older ones have.

Certainly celebrate your youth and strength but temper it by taking heed of those who have the experience.

[haydes55]

The younger ones tend to dismiss or minimise the dangers especially if warned by older people or authorities. And, yes, an inflated view of their capabilities is normal for their age having not generally had to face their limitations as most older ones have.

Certainly celebrate your youth and strength but temper it by taking heed of those who have the experience.

Basically, live in fear of death, do everything in life the boring way to try live as long as possible. I'd rather live to be 30 and enjoy those years, than live to 90 having never tested my limitations.

I can't fly, so I won't jump of a cliff. If I couldn't swim, I wouldn't go swimming in the ocean.

[Madness]

I'd rather live to be 30 and enjoy those years, than live to 90 having never tested my limitations.

That will look really cool on your headstone. Now you've just got to pick the right font. Might I suggest Comic Sans?

[swbarnett]

I drive it at slower speeds than most of you ride, especially around corners.
HUGE assumption mate.


I know I'm safe, I can see my driving, I know how often I'm at risk and manage those risks each time.
All good in principle but the only time you will be anything near to safe is when you realise you're not.

[swbarnett]

Basically, live in fear of death, do everything in life the boring way to try live as long as possible.
Definitely not. Just don't go through life saying "it'll never happen to me". No matter how much you practice avoiding accidents. No matter how skilled you are you can still come to grief. Otherwise racetracks wouldn't need gravel traps.


I'd rather live to be 30 and enjoy those years, than live to 90 having never tested my limitations.
To be honest I agree with this. It's just that you seem to expect the best of both - push right to the edge and beyond and still live to 90.

[pritch]

Right, so if we take that as gospel, it'd be safer for everyone to go 71 mph than 49 mph.



You had better read it again, that's not what it said.

[Edbear]

HUGE assumption mate.

All good in principle but the only time you will be anything near to safe is when you realise you're not.


Definitely not. Just don't go through life saying "it'll never happen to me". No matter how much you practice avoiding accidents. No matter how skilled you are you can still come to grief. Otherwise racetracks wouldn't need gravel traps.

To be honest I agree with this. It's just that you seem to expect the best of both - push right to the edge and beyond and still live to 90.

Very true. "No risk, no reward" is true, however recklessness and the "Devil may care" attitude benefits nobody.

[awa355]

Not a good weekend for motorcyclists. :no::no: Three fatalities that I have read of, plus a 6yr operating an atv.

[WNJ]

And another today ,http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11392025

[FJRider]

... than live to 90 having never tested my limitations.



Your own limitations are the least of your worries. The limitations of those others near you (and have no control of) are the one's to worry about ...

[dangerous]

...the head of the NZ Water Safety Council's comments on the amount of drownings of late and the fact that they are all males could easily slide in here as relevant...he believes the cause is, being unaware of the dangers and an inflated sense of ones capabilities...sound familiar?...

ohh and today the SPCA reguarding dog resposabilitys said "people of some ethnicities had no idea of their responsibilities and "don't care".
fuck sake what the world comming to, my ethnic what ever is Kiwi... fuk im a bad rider, boater and now dog owner LMFAO

Ohh and There were more than 2000 claims to ACC as a result of accidents on all terrain vehicles at a cost of $4.4m last year... thats what my rego paid for, cos they not regoed and paying acc

[FJRider]

...the head of the NZ Water Safety Council's comments on the amount of drownings of late and the fact that they are all males could easily slide in here as relevant...he believes the cause is, being unaware of the dangers and an inflated sense of ones capabilities...sound familiar?...

The old .. "It won't happen to me ... I'm a good rider(swimmer)" ideology you mean ... ????

[Madness]

ohh and today the SPCA reguarding dog resposabilitys said "people of some ethnicities had no idea of their responsibilities and "don't care".
fuck sake what the world comming to, my ethnic what ever is Kiwi... fuk im a bad rider, boater and now dog owner LMFAO

I don't think he was pointing the finger at gingers.

[nodrog]

ohh and today the SPCA reguarding dog resposabilitys said "people of some ethnicities had no idea of their responsibilities and "don't care".
fuck sake what the world comming to, my ethnic what ever is Kiwi... fuk im a bad rider, boater and now dog owner LMFAO

.....

they were talking about Bantu immigrants in south Auckland.

[ellipsis]

they were talking about Bantu immigrants in south Auckland.

...ginga Bantus?...fuck that...

[nodrog]

......fuck that...

sick cunt.

[haydes55]

Definitely not. Just don't go through life saying "it'll never happen to me". No matter how much you practice avoiding accidents. No matter how skilled you are you can still come to grief. Otherwise racetracks wouldn't need gravel traps.


To be honest I agree with this. It's just that you seem to expect the best of both - push right to the edge and beyond and still live to 90.

I'd agree with you, if I were going to anywhere near 100% of my ability, or my vehicles grip. My vans tires are the size of biscuits, they overheat in fuck all time and start squealing while the paperwork on my passenger seat barely moves (the plastic clipboard always goes flying, so i chuck my towel over it). I've come across trucks cutting into my lane around blind corners, with tires squealing and still had ample time and reserves of grip to turn sharper, add brakes and avoid them.

Every time I've been in an emergency situation, I've always had reserves available. Because I know the limits of the van, I know how much sharper I can turn, or how hard I can brake etc. I know what options I have available to avoid the collisions that Cassina would say are unavoidable.

[haydes55]

HUGE assumption mate.


All good in principle but the only time you will be anything near to safe is when you realise you're not.

The HUGE assumption you made was the quality of my work van.... It can't go fast.

I know the risks. I know the dangers of being on the road. The only thing that last sentence proves, is how dangerous speed limits are "I'm safe, I don't speed" -Dead drivers. I'm safe, I trust no road is clear beyond what I can see, I know how to control my vehicle if I am in a dangerous situation and lose grip. I'm safe because I consciously and constantly think "what if [Worst case scenario] was around the corner".

Basically I drive like how I ride "no one has seen me, drivers will fail to indicateindicate wrong and muppets will actually drive straight at me".

Are you claiming you realise you aren't safe.... Therefore saying you're a safer driver/rider than me because you know it's dangerous? Therefore you aren't as safe as you realise... (that's some Matrix logic there :laugh:)

[swbarnett]

...
At this point I'm going to stop going around in circles and assume that you're not getting your point across very well. Because, from what you've written you're not as safe as you think you are. The reality, of course, may be quite different.

[Brian d marge]

that 1 km/h over is a byatch ....I mean if those 44 people had been travelling at 99 km/h they would have been fine ........

TV said so

Stephen

[RDJ]

That will look really cool on your headstone.

I've always thought the most appropriate epitaph to be one I read years ago

"I expected this, but not so soon"

[roogazza]

that 1 km/h over is a byatch ....I mean if those 44 people had been travelling at 99 km/h they would have been fine ........

TV said so

Stephen

we aren"t hearing a thing now mate. 4 k is still in but , news seems to all about saving us from fucking drowning now.
Oh , Govt , please save me.

what 44 over proves is fuckwit humans die sometimes doing shit....

[scumdog]

what 44 over proves is fuckwit humans die sometimes doing shit....


And it probably would have been 45 dead if the so-called 1kph over-and-ticket thing had never existed.

I blame the public, the ones that equated "1kph over and you will be stopped" to "1kph over and you will get a ticket"

If they think like that then lord knows how they think when actually driving - well the ones that DO think...:msn-wink:

[bogan]

And it probably would have been 45 dead if the so-called 1kph over-and-ticket thing had never existed.

I blame the public, the ones that equated "1kph over and you will be stopped" to "1kph over and you will get a ticket"

If they think like that then lord knows how they think when actually driving - well the ones that DO think...:msn-wink:

I blame the cops, why bother to stop people doing 1km over at all?

[ellipsis]

...I blame the cunt who invented the wheel...

[scumdog]

I blame the cops, why bother to stop people doing 1km over at all?

Dunno, I never did.

[Swoop]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw2ap5lEmCJHcjV6cXRfb2RmT1E/edit?pli=1


.............

Air Force pilots, astronauts and motorcycle racers often talk about "the zone".Hmm. Obviously Tinfoil Hatman missed that one.

[swbarnett]

I blame the public, the ones that equated "1kph over and you will be stopped" to "1kph over and you will get a ticket"
Given the lack of discretion that has been previously publicised this is a perfectly logical assumption. The police need to learn that these are people they're dealing with, not automaton mind readers.

[scumdog]

Given the lack of discretion that has been previously publicised this is a perfectly logical assumption. The police need to learn that these are people they're dealing with, not automaton mind readers.

Ah, that great word 'assumption'...<_<

[swbarnett]

Ah, that great word 'assumption'...<_<
We don't all have the time to research everything to the nth degree. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is logical to assume it is a duck.

The process of assumption is something that all higher order animals do. Any species that doesn't dies out pretty quick because they spend so much time concerned about things that are of no real consequence that they don't have any left to sustain themselves or procreate.

[James Deuce]

I didn't do it.

[haydes55]

Just heard an ad on the radio, basically saying "there will be thousands of police on the roads enforcing the speed limit, when we target speeding, we see less deaths and less injuries, the rest is up to you" basically the ad is saying don't speed, but we wont bother looking for any other traffic violation.

[YellowDog]

Just heard an ad on the radio, basically saying "there will be thousands of police on the roads enforcing the speed limit, when we target speeding, we see less deaths and less injuries, the rest is up to you" basically the ad is saying don't speed, but we wont bother looking for any other traffic violation.

Police officers are not morons. Unfortunately I can't say the same about the people they report to.

[swbarnett]

"when we target speeding, we see less deaths and less injuries"
Lies, damn lies and statistics!!!





Besides not knowing English - "less" = Continuous (e.g. less sand), FEWER = discrete (e.g. fewer grains of sand) and is the word they need here.

[swbarnett]

Police officers are not morons.
Some certainly are (as with any profession). Most of those that I've met on the road seem to have bought the speed lie hook, line and sinker.

[FJRider]

Lies, damn lies and statistics!!!







Simple fact ...

Hitting SOLID objects at slower speeds does increase the chances of less injury.

Are you feeling lucky ... PUNK .. ???

[swbarnett]

Simple fact ...

Hitting SOLID objects at slower speeds does increase the chances of less injury.
Even simpler fact ...

NOT hitting solid objects at all has a 100% chance of no injury.

Allowing everyone to find their own optimal speed is the best way to reduce the occurrence of hitting solid objects. Aiming at an arbitrary maximum speed is a good way to increase the occurrence of hitting solid objects.

[caspernz]

Simple fact ...

Hitting SOLID objects at slower speeds does increase the chances of less injury.

Are you feeling lucky ... PUNK .. ???

In some cases this approach has flaws though. Cross the centre line in your car, take on a truck head-on, it matters little whether you're doing 70/80/90/100/110.

Bit like the difference between a 0.338 and a 0.50 round isn't it? Both are deadly if they're coming at you. Better not to find oneself in the line of fire.

The whole "speed is the only evil" myth continues to crack me up. Lovely to see some effort going into the other activities drivers get up to that are the cause of many incidents...while the Kodak cash cams still seem to sit on the downhill runs :shit:

[Edbear]

Even simpler fact ...

NOT hitting solid objects at all has a 100% chance of no injury.

Allowing everyone to find their own optimal speed is the best way to reduce the occurrence of hitting solid objects. Aiming at an arbitrary maximum speed is a good way to increase the occurrence of hitting solid objects.

Allowing everyone to find their own optimal speed is to assume that everyone is in fact as capable as they think they are! The drivers who crash and kill and maim are clear testament to the fallacy of that.

I suppose you would then happily accept being stuck behind an open road driver doing 40km/h.

[FJRider]

Even simpler fact ...

NOT hitting solid objects at all has a 100% chance of no injury.

Simple people are not aware of this ... and continue to advantage themselves of their right of personal choice of choosing their own impact speed.


Allowing everyone to find their own optimal speed is the best way to reduce the occurrence of hitting solid objects. Aiming at an arbitrary maximum speed is a good way to increase the occurrence of hitting solid objects

How many attempts (ie:number of crashes) are allowed to find this "Optimal" speed ... and increasing arbitrary speeds will enhance the occurrence as well ...


Personal choice as to choice of impact speeds exist already. The biggest guess is opposing traffic speed ... if you guess correctly ... :2thumbsup:

Guess wrong ... :eek:

[Edbear]

It does seem that generally the traffic is going slower nowadays, but until the road toll comes down I will continue to opine that many drivers are unsafe at any speed.


Personally I have no issues with complying with the law, but then I am an old fuddy duddy nowadays... Not that I don't enjoy power and speed, but I'd prefer to do high speeds on the track these days. Less likely to be the victim of someone else's mistake.

[Katman]

It does seem that generally the traffic is going slower nowadays, but until the road toll comes down I will continue to opine that many drivers are unsafe at any speed.


You're a prime example.

[FJRider]

In some cases this approach has flaws though. Cross the centre line in your car, take on a truck head-on, it matters little whether you're doing 70/80/90/100/110.

Bit like the difference between a 0.338 and a 0.50 round isn't it? Both are deadly if they're coming at you. Better not to find oneself in the line of fire.

The whole "speed is the only evil" myth continues to crack me up. Lovely to see some effort going into the other activities drivers get up to that are the cause of many incidents...while the Kodak cash cams still seem to sit on the downhill runs :shit:

Speed isn't evil.

Impact speeds ARE. The faster you go ... the greater the likely impact speed. REGARDLESS of what you hit.

The ... "Not my fault" attitude ... will not reduce said impact speed (or it's result)

[dangerous]

And it probably would have been 45 dead if the so-called 1kph over-and-ticket thing had never existed.

I blame the public, the ones that equated "1kph over and you will be stopped" to "1kph over and you will get a ticket"

If they think like that then lord knows how they think when actually driving - well the ones that DO think...:msn-wink:

Ya know what... I reckon it would a been 43 "dead if the so-called 1kph over-and-ticket thing had never existed"

"I blame the public, the ones that equated "1kph over and you will be stopped" to "1kph over and you will get a ticket"

Cos Im reckoning that at least ONE dead was due to a public driver driving at 90kph cos they were shit scead of doing 101kph and getting told of and there 1st ever speeding ticket holding up a stream of tail gaters and ONE of them became impatent and did a dumb move and passed the slow prick Mr public and caused a crash killing ONE

[caspernz]

Speed isn't evil.

Impact speeds ARE. The faster you go ... the greater the likely impact speed. REGARDLESS of what you hit.

The ... "Not my fault" attitude ... will not reduce said impact speed (or it's result)

Never said speed was evil, the whole myth created by being "safe" when doing a certain slower speed...that's the crux of it.

Driver skill improvement and sensible enforcement of all dodgy driving aspects is all I'd like to see, but heck the focus on speed seems ingrained now.

The Smiths driving system is supremely simple in essence, and it keeps me safe and sensible on 2, 4 and more wheels. Yes sensible speed is part of it, and taking charge of a situation as well...maybe if more folks would learn it, the roads would be safer for all of us :drinknsin

[FJRider]

Cos Im reckoning that at least ONE dead was due to a public driver driving at 90kph cos they were shit scead of doing 101kph and getting told of and there 1st ever speeding ticket holding up a stream of tail gaters and ONE of them became impatent and did a dumb move and passed the slow prick Mr public and caused a crash killing ONE

So ... the one at fault was a slow driver ... because another was impatient and did a dumb thing and caused (your words) a crash killing .. ??

Next you'll be blaming a bar tender for a drunk driver accident death.

[Scuba_Steve]

Next you'll be blaming a bar tender for a drunk driver accident death.

Again go read yourself some legislation... They quite often DO blame the bar/bar tender, it's old legislation that allows for this

[FJRider]

Never said speed was evil, the whole myth created by being "safe" when doing a certain slower speed...that's the crux of it.



Show me WHERE .. and what cop says it is safe at legal (or less) speeds.

The cop catchline ... "the faster you go .. (etc) " does not say that ...


The size of the mess is up to you.

[FJRider]

Again go read yourself some legislation... They quite often DO blame the bar/bar tender, it's old legislation that allows for this

So ... the Speeding motorists and drunk drivers don't know the rules or legislation .. ???

Personal choice is great ... if you can pin the blame on somebody ELSE ...

[caspernz]

Show me WHERE .. and what cop says it is safe at legal (or less) speeds.

The cop catchline ... "the faster you go .. (etc) " does not say that ...


The size of the mess is up to you.

You should probably not try skydiving :innocent:

[dangerous]

So ... the one at fault was a slow driver ... because another was impatient and did a dumb thing and caused (your words) a crash killing .. ??

Next you'll be blaming a bar tender for a drunk driver accident death.

FFS the slow driver wasnt at fault... they were just over reacting to the new threats by the cops, scear tactics you could almost say mental bullying... if it was not for the threats, then there would not have been an issue, shit man I was piss taking the prick I quoted

[Brian d marge]

ever get the feeling ya been sold a pup
I mean 1 ..4. . km over cameras . . .witches burning at the stake

all designed to scare sheep . . .

u hit a tree at 80 which is more than enough speed on a lot of nz roads ya fked

same tree 101 km ,just as fked

bad driving is caused by bad decisions
either by the objectification of others . . tis what happens when break down communities

or by lack of knowledge

most of nz bad driving comes from the first catagory . .the 2nd i reckon comes from people unused to nz driving conditions or of low experience

all of which aint nowt to do with speed

but tv says speed kills so it must be true . . . .

[FJRider]

FFS the slow driver wasnt at fault... they were just over reacting to the new threats by the cops, scear tactics you could almost say mental bullying... if it was not for the threats, then there would not have been an issue, shit man I was piss taking the prick I quoted

The overreaction that did the harm ... was by the impatient driver. Not the one who was within the law.

[swbarnett]

Allowing everyone to find their own optimal speed is to assume that everyone is in fact as capable as they think they are!
And yet evidence from places where the speed limits were raised show that the road toll drops. It's not about how good people think they are. It's about the psychology. The fact that the brain is necessarily more engaged at a higher speed i.e a driver's optimal speed.


The drivers who crash and kill and maim are clear testament to the fallacy of that.
A more engaged driver is a safer driver. No matter how good they are to start with. Even the "numptys" that "crash and kill and maim".


I suppose you would then happily accept being stuck behind an open road driver doing 40km/h.
I get that several times a week - and it's more like 10kph. It's called living rural. Oh, and I'm not stuck for long.

[swbarnett]

Simple people are not aware of this
To be honest I highly doubt that. It comes with being human. If anyone is not aware of this then I want to see the plastic bubble they grew up in.


How many attempts (ie:number of crashes) are allowed to find this "Optimal" speed ...
To my mind 1. Cause a crash, get the book thrown at you.


and increasing arbitrary speeds will enhance the occurrence as well ...
This has been proven wrong time and again where speed limits have been raised.

[Brian d marge]

To be honest I highly doubt that. It comes with being human. If anyone is not aware of this then I want to see the plastic bubble they grew up in.


To my mind 1. Cause a crash, get the book thrown at you.


This has been proven wrong time and again where speed limits have been raised.
south auckland . . .waimate. . .Blenheim,

[swbarnett]

south auckland . . .waimate. . .Blenheim,
To which part of my post were you referring?

[Brian d marge]

the plastic bubble they grew up in

[dangerous]

The overreaction that did the harm ... was by the impatient driver. Not the one who was within the law.

"sigh" and if the law was not imposed as such a bullying threat the 'one who was withen the law' would not have sat 10k less than the posted limit and the impatient would not have become impatient


did you actually ride or drive anywere over the xmas break?

[Scubbo]

I hear there is a group being formed to make ABS brakes compulsory on motorcycles in NZ, my sister in law went for a job with this group, she was telling me I needed abs brakes on my bike... so there is a group out there who don't ride, who only look at numbers and are only looking at saving ACC money whilst they line their own pockets --- gotta love nz, my already low respect for the girl has hit rock bottom... good thing she's fecking off to europe in a month.

[Madness]

I hear there is a group being formed to make ABS brakes compulsory on motorcycles in NZ, my sister in law went for a job with this group, she was telling me I needed abs brakes on my bike... so there is a group out there who don't ride, who only look at numbers and are only looking at saving ACC money whilst they line their own pockets --- gotta love nz, my already low respect for the girl has hit rock bottom... good thing she's fecking off to europe in a month.

It seems there's no end to the groups, protests and petitions around motorcycling these days.

Fuck 'em all I say. Motorcycles, just ride the cunts.

[avgas]

I hear there is a group being formed to make ABS brakes compulsory on motorcycles in NZ, my sister in law went for a job with this group, she was telling me I needed abs brakes on my bike... so there is a group out there who don't ride, who only look at numbers and are only looking at saving ACC money whilst they line their own pockets --- gotta love nz, my already low respect for the girl has hit rock bottom... good thing she's fecking off to europe in a month.
I am so happy they are changing the name and motto of the organization.

BMW Riders Club wasn't working for them.

[dangerous]

I hear there is a group being formed to make ABS brakes compulsory on motorcycles in NZ.
Ohhh fuck off... whats next then compulsory anti wheelie, wheel spin, hell I rode a bike with all the above the other day V4 Prilla... didnt like it, felt well out of control of the bike as in in controled me.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ohhh fuck off... whats next then compulsory anti wheelie, wheel spin, hell I rode a bike with all the above the other day V4 Prilla... didnt like it, felt well out of control of the bike as in in controled me.

Na next is compulsory self drive cars. Manual control cars & bikes will just be for us "criminal rebels"

[Brian d marge]

my enfield has anti lock brakes . . .so does me old bantam

[FJRider]

"sigh" and if the law was not imposed as such a bullying threat the 'one who was withen the law' would not have sat 10k less than the posted limit and the impatient would not have become impatient

Within the speed limits ... does not always equate to within the law. Impeding the flow of traffic is also a Traffic Infringement risk. *555 is your friend ...


did you actually ride or drive anywere over the xmas break?

I did ... and half the population of NZ (and a quarter of the known worlds drivers) were here in Paradise. Definitely not normal numbers by average year round figures. We expect such in ALL holiday seasons ... and get on with it ... but slower.

[haydes55]

my enfield has anti lock brakes . . .so does me old bantam


That reminds me, my old flatmate had a 919 hornet. I gave him shit about his anti lock brakes, under heavy braking, I could pull the lever hard against the throttle and the front wouldn't lock and it wouldn't do a stoppie...... He didn't believe me when I told him it was dangerous, nor did he let me adjust it... He bought an aftermarket CNC'd lever, left the adjustment to have the bar as close to the grip as possible.... ABS or not would make no difference to him.

[FJRider]

In some cases this approach has flaws though.

True ... the main flaw being that other motorists can be crossing into YOUR side ... without advising you of their intentions first.

Good luck with avoiding THEM ...

[swbarnett]

True ... the main flaw being that other motorists can be crossing into YOUR side ... without advising you of their intentions first.

Good luck with avoiding THEM ...
Easier said than done I'll agree but it can be done. My wife came across a black BMW fully on her side of the road on a blind corner. She had to use the grass verge to avoid them but avoid them she did.

And I've had idiots pull U-turns under similar circumstances and completely avoided a collision. And I wasn't exactly crawling either.

[FJRider]

Easier said than done I'll agree but it can be done. My wife came across a black BMW fully on her side of the road on a blind corner. She had to use the grass verge to avoid them but avoid them she did.

And I've had idiots pull U-turns under similar circumstances and completely avoided a collision. And I wasn't exactly crawling either.

It is good to hear there are still some that put their lives ahead of preserving (persevering with) their personal rights (of way) .. <_<

[FJRider]

Again go read yourself some legislation... They quite often DO blame the bar/bar tender, it's old legislation that allows for this

"Drunk Drivers" are usually not "Drunk" as such ... just over the declared limit. As such ... to blame the guy/gal that served them their last drink ... is stupidity.

Quite often do ... ??? :laugh: They DO blame said bar staff ... when it court they admit they DID know he was already drunk (slurred speech and staggering) and served them anyway. As such ... is contrary to the legislation in place NOW.

BOTH parties know (or should) the rules ... keeping to them is their choice. The possible result of NOT (by both parties) is ALSO known.


The belief (also by both parties) ... is it won't happen to me ...

[rustyrobot]

Na next is compulsory self drive cars. Manual control cars & bikes will just be for us "criminal rebels"

Scary thing is this is not far-fetched at all. A lot of people would prefer self-driving cars, and then it's us lot with 'human input' that are the risk factor. I imagine a severe increase in ACC levy for anyone that wants a human-driven vehicle.

[rustyrobot]

... to blame the guy/gal that served them their last drink ...

This idea has some merit. Perhaps I could send any speeding tickets to the person who sold me my bike? It's clearly their fault.

[swbarnett]

Scary thing is this is not far-fetched at all. A lot of people would prefer self-driving cars, and then it's us lot with 'human input' that are the risk factor.
There is one thing that will change this view in an instant - the first time that a self-drive car causes a fatality.

My assertion with self-drive cars is not that they will have more accidents than humans (or even the same number). It's that when they do they will be more catastrophic. Data corruption is a fact of the electronic age. Self-drive cars (or automated roads for that matter) will not be immune.

[swbarnett]

This idea has some merit. Perhaps I could send any speeding tickets to the person who sold me my bike? It's clearly their fault.
Or perhaps to the reprobate that had the gall to sell you your last tank of gas.

[cheshirecat]

my enfield has anti lock brakes . . .so does me old bantam
And very effective I seem to remember, along with the instant lock in the wet twin leading shoe on me CB160

[RDJ]

There is one thing that will change this view in an instant - the first time that a self-drive car causes a fatality.

My assertion with self-drive cars is not that they will have more accidents than humans (or even the same number). It's that when they do they will be more catastrophic. Data corruption is a fact of the electronic age. Self-drive cars (or automated roads for that matter) will not be immune.

Yeah, this. Especially if they're running on Microsoft Windows... the blue screen of death will become literal.

[swbarnett]

the blue screen of death will become literal.
Yes, having the software crash (no pun intended) is of concern. However, this is not the real danger. The real danger is when the software is still running and thinks all is fine but the information it's receiving is incorrect, leading to actions that are dangerous. It wouldn't take much dust and dirt on a few sensors (or simply being out of alignment or calibration) for this to happen.

[Murray]

"Drunk Drivers" are usually not "Drunk"

There is actually no defined amount that means you are drunk. It is on behaviour patterns only. The police cannot say you blew 500 so you are drunk you are actually over the limit to drive not over the limit to have a few beersies in the pub. You are correct

[swbarnett]

There is actually no defined amount that means you are drunk. It is on behaviour patterns only. The police cannot say you blew 500 so you are drunk you are actually over the limit to drive not over the limit to have a few beersies in the pub. You are correct
Which means that the drink driving limit is just another arbitrary limit with no basis in reality (in this case human physiology).

[Murray]

Which means that the drink driving limit is just another arbitrary limit with no basis in reality (in this case human physiology).

Yes thats right

[TheDemonLord]

Which means that the drink driving limit is just another arbitrary limit with no basis in reality (in this case human physiology).

I'll admit that I haven't done a whole lot of research of late on this - but my memory is that a driver at the Legal limit (so not over) is 3 times more likely to be involved in a crash than a driver who has not had a drink.

[swbarnett]

I'll admit that I haven't done a whole lot of research of late on this - but my memory is that a driver at the Legal limit (so not over) is 3 times more likely to be involved in a crash than a driver who has not had a drink.
"Lies, damn lies and statistics". There are "stats" that say motorcyclists are 20 times more likely to die than car drivers as well. Doesn't make it true.

[FJRider]

Which means that the drink driving limit is just another arbitrary limit with no basis in reality (in this case human physiology).

This is KB ... who the fuck on here does reality ... :rolleyes:

But ... until there is a change of legislation ... the "Arbitrary limits" apply ... God I love this free country ... :cool:

[FJRider]

... You are correct

as (almost) always ... :blank:

[Murray]

I'll admit that I haven't done a whole lot of research of late on this - but my memory is that a driver at the Legal limit (so not over) is 3 times more likely to be involved in a crash than a driver who has not had a drink.

And someone on a cellphone 5 times more likely?? but again no research

And I do not condone drink driving and do not do it. However the point is statistics can be found and skewed for any event.

[YellowDog]

A cop mate of mine showed me how to get off a DIC suspicion :o












I've not ever tried it, as I don't earn enough :lol: