Ultimate 911 POLL [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

TheDemonLord

4th January 2015, 19:13

Their own official story accepts incompetence and failings so option 1 I guess or 2

The last time I bothered to look at 911 (which was a while ago admitedly) there was a bit of 'oh yeah we could have done things better, but at the time blah blah blah, and process blah blah blah'

kinda like they were downplaying how much they cocked up - my personal belief is that the cockup/incompetence was much more than they are prepared to admit and it was just that, as opposed to being ignored so as to have justification for war.

I will stay with my 1.5 opinion I should also point out at this point that I am unlikely to read any further on it due to my weariness of the 911 saga (the official side, the American media hype, the conspiracy theories etc.)

Swoop

4th January 2015, 20:19

No option for "dem aliem's did it"?

yokel

4th January 2015, 20:35

No option for "dem aliem's did it"?

or lizards in skin suites dun it? actually there maybe some truth to that regarding the lizard part of the human brain.

oldrider

4th January 2015, 21:26

You left out non of the above - incomplete poll can't/wont vote. :no:

EJK

4th January 2015, 23:41

Where is an option for this 911?

<img width="600" src="http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/PORSCHE-911-Turbo-S--991--4855_40.jpg" />

HenryDorsetCase

5th January 2015, 08:04

I am a big fan of the 911, and really admire the way that Ze Chermans have taken something that kinda didnt work that well and shouldnt work as well as it does, and made it work really bloody well indeed. The purity of the shape of the early up to mid-70's ones appeal to me (plus they are quite affordable, easy enough to get parts for, and were one of the first vehicles manufactured where every panel was galvanised (or otherwise rust protected) prior to painting. Unlike, sya, Toyotas of that era which rust into holes as soon as look at you.

I think my favourite hairy chested "mans car" version though is the good old widebody turbo whaletail. "I like big butts and I dont know why..."

unstuck

5th January 2015, 10:34

Swoop

5th January 2015, 10:37

... the way that Ze Chermans have taken something that kinda didnt work that well and shouldnt work as well as it does...
Sounds like a conspiracy with some gubbinment under-handedness, of some sort, there!
Quick! On with the tin-foil hats.

unstuck

5th January 2015, 10:45

Sounds like a conspiracy with some gubbinment under-handedness, of some sort, there!
Quick! On with the tin-foil hats.

My tin foil still has stuff in it, and I'm not tipping it out.:oi-grr:
But will see if I can find some zig zags an speed up the process.:innocent:

Laava

5th January 2015, 11:52

I would vote for the 911 turbo or especially the Gemballa Avalanche spec but what were Porsche thinking with those awful boxsters? Looks like it was bodywork by the Falcon AU team!

mashman

5th January 2015, 11:54

I would vote for the 911 turbo or especially the Gemballa Avalanche spec but what were Porsche thinking with those awful boxsters? Looks like it was bodywork by the Falcon AU team!

Somink for de ladeez innit

Madness

5th January 2015, 12:07

I've been passenger in a 911 but bugger owning one. In fact bugger owning any European car for that matter.

Where's the Japanese option?

unstuck

5th January 2015, 12:09

Where's the Japanese option?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Toyota_Celica_GT-FOUR_02.jpg

bogan

5th January 2015, 12:11

ST185

While that option is closer to 911 than the following, my poll rises further for this one...

http://www.gt4.com.pl/polyurethane/images/st165_2.jpg

Tazz

5th January 2015, 12:17

The fuck, I came here for Porsches, not 9/11!

Most disappointing thread of 2015 so far =(

I would have even settled for a turck.

EJK

5th January 2015, 12:31

The fuck, I came here for Porsches, not 9/11!

Most disappointing thread of 2015 so far =(

I would have even settled for a turck.

Way ahead of ya buddy.

Tazz

5th January 2015, 12:40

Way ahead of ya buddy.

I only looked at the first page :o

TheDemonLord

5th January 2015, 13:00

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Toyota_Celica_GT-FOUR_02.jpg

God.

It is still just as Sexy as I remember it

(I'm sorry mods, but it really is a Sexy car)

Laava

5th January 2015, 13:14

What about an option for, "Will a mod merge this 911 poll thread with yonkels other 911 poll thread"

Oh, and yeah, those old school Celicas are a class act!

ellipsis

5th January 2015, 13:44

...my little pommy (RIP) mate had a leased 911...I drove it often, usually when he was pissed and couldn't...sometimes I was was pissed and shouldn't have...I loved driving it but it was hard work...

Swoop

5th January 2015, 15:25

My tin foil still has stuff in it, and I'm not tipping it out.:oi-grr:
But will see if I can find some zig zags an speed up the process.:innocent:
An excellent plan! Destroy the evidence with fire!:Punk:

R650R

5th January 2015, 16:43

You left out non of the above - incomplete poll can't/wont vote. :no:

That's alright as expected the numbers so far are mirroring the other poll, a massive 1/3 of voters don't believe the official story. That's the same number that gave Jon Keys a 'mandate' to govern NZ....
The main aim is make people realise the 'conspiracy theorists' all have different views and aren't all kooks as the official story cultists make out when they uphold the wackiest example as a representation....
There so terriefied of the truth coming out they are spamming the thread which is cool as it bumps it to top of pagfe :)

unstuck

5th January 2015, 17:32

There so terriefied of the truth coming out they are spamming the thread which is cool as it bumps it to top of pagfe :)

So you dont like porches or toymotas? :msn-wink:
Maybe you are more of an a110 fan? :niceone:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Renault_Alpine_A_110_(Sp).JPG

Tazz

5th January 2015, 17:53

There so terriefied of the truth coming out they are spamming the thread which is cool as it bumps it to top of pagfe :)

The only terrifying thing here is your assault on written engriph/English :bleh:

But mine's pretty shit, and 911's are awesome, so we'll let it slide.

http://carzz.co/porsche-911-moby-dick-flat-nose-favorite-cars-carzz_163693.jpg

bogan

5th January 2015, 18:05

That's alright as expected the numbers so far are mirroring the other poll, a massive 1/3 of voters don't believe the official story. That's the same number that gave Jon Keys a 'mandate' to govern NZ....
The main aim is make people realise the 'conspiracy theorists' all have different views and aren't all kooks as the official story cultists make out when they uphold the wackiest example as a representation....

Hang on a sec, the second category goes under official story too. So it is actually a minor 15% of an already subset of the population predisposed to having an interest in this topic that disagree with the official story.

There so terriefied of the truth coming out they are spamming the thread which is cool as it bumps it to top of pagfe :)

I agree with Tazz; what is it about these conspiracy threads that facilitates such a grammatorium :scratch: oh yeh, idiots :facepalm:

Katman

5th January 2015, 18:08

I agree with Tazz; what is it about these conspiracy threads that facilitates such a grammatorium :scratch: oh yeh, idiots :facepalm:

You're sounding more and more like Ed.

Woodman

5th January 2015, 18:12

There so terriefied of the truth coming out they are spamming the thread which is cool as it bumps it to top of pagfe :)

Really didn't know that. Must remember to generalise more

So you dont like porches or toymotas? :msn-wink:
Maybe you are more of an a110 fan? :niceone:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Renault_Alpine_A_110_(Sp).JPG

Thats Gorgeous:love::love:

bogan

5th January 2015, 18:12

You're sounding more and more like Ed.

That's alright, the corollary of that is it means I usually sound less like him.

Speaking of which...

http://crooucy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1986-Corolla-AE86-Blacl-Front-Side-View-Desgin-Wallpaper.jpg

unstuck

5th January 2015, 18:29

corollas aye...........

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/037mc5716_Toyota-Corolla-E30.jpg

Tazz

5th January 2015, 18:37

Always prefered the old Celicas to the Corollas

http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Hawaii-RA21-Celica-13-1200x800.jpg

unstuck

5th January 2015, 18:38

The new pics that make you jizz thread???:Punk::Punk:

Tazz

5th January 2015, 18:45

Good point. Should probably get back on topic sorry...:(

http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/Porsche-PB-Display-1.jpg

:cool:

unstuck

5th January 2015, 18:46

A much better topic than constitheory if you ask me.:2thumbsup

bogan

5th January 2015, 18:47

http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/Porsche-PB-Display-1.jpg

Rothmans...

Rothschild...

Media...

Government...

911 Coverup...

Where do I go to redeem* my tin foil hat?

*will not be redeeming unless I am given a mint ST165 to go there in, and it involves a lot of gravel...

Tazz

5th January 2015, 18:50

You've had to many Martinis bro. One more won't hurt though:

http://www.carskings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Porsche-911-Safari-Rally-off-road-5.jpg

unstuck

5th January 2015, 18:50

Where do I go to redeem* my tin foil hat?

Just find a house with a pair of shoes over the powerlines outside it.:shifty:

R650R

5th January 2015, 18:53

Hang on a sec, the second category goes under official story too....

No option 2 involves a conspiracy as to let it happen deliberately means collusion by two or more parties to fail to act/stand down/subvert defence mechanisms.
Like the Saudi ambassador who said hey these bitches are on the no go list but the CIA ordered him to approve heir USA entry visas.
A conspiracy is two or more people conspiring for an event to happen.

More concerning than 911 though is the overt homosexuality here with all the car photos, and not just any car photos but good ones suggesting a hidden collection of car photos here by many members.....

unstuck

5th January 2015, 18:54

No option 2 involves a conspiracy as to let it happen deliberately means collusion by two or more parties to fail to act/stand down/subvert defence mechanisms.
Like the Saudi ambassador who said hey these bitches are on the no go list but the CIA ordered him to approve heir USA entry visas.
A conspiracy is two or more people conspiring for an event to happen.

More concerning than 911 though is the overt homosexuality here with all the car photos, and not just any car photos but good ones suggesting a hidden collection of car photos here by many members.....

You meet the strangest people on motorcycling forums.:2thumbsup

bogan

5th January 2015, 18:57

No option 2 involves a conspiracy as to let it happen deliberately means collusion by two or more parties to fail to act/stand down/subvert defence mechanisms.
Like the Saudi ambassador who said hey these bitches are on the no go list but the CIA ordered him to approve heir USA entry visas.
A conspiracy is two or more people conspiring for an event to happen.

More concerning than 911 though is the overt homosexuality here with all the car photos, and not just any car photos but good ones suggesting a hidden collection of car photos here by many members.....

Yes but that 'conspiracy' tows the line of the official story, in which planes flown by box cutters hit the towers and the towers fell down. Additionally, that conspiracy is not provable by evidence available.

Mate, they're not hondas... celicas are hetro as.

Tazz

5th January 2015, 19:02

More concerning than 911 though is the overt homosexuality here with all the car photos, and not just any car photos but good ones suggesting a hidden collection of car photos here by many members.....

Yeah man, anyone into cars is clearly a hairdresser.

How much you want off the top again? Seems there is already a chunk missing...:devil2:

Mate, they're not hondas... celicas are hetro as.

You meet the nicest people in a Celica.

http://img.favcars.com/toyota/celica/toyota_celica_1971_wallpapers_1.jpg

bogan

5th January 2015, 19:11

You meet the nicest people in a Celica.

Mmmm, sure do.

I think I now need a rally spec ST165, and an RA25 with a big supercharger out the bonnet.

R650R

5th January 2015, 19:11

Yeah man, anyone into cars is clearly a hairdresser.

]

#youdidnttapthat actually probably #younevermetthat lol

Hair dressers are ok, it's stylists you don't want to bend over near....

unstuck

5th January 2015, 19:12

HenryDorsetCase

5th January 2015, 19:17

So you dont like porches or toymotas? :msn-wink:
Maybe you are more of an a110 fan? :niceone:

Cor thats the business. and way more expensive than a 911 I bet.

HenryDorsetCase

5th January 2015, 19:25

#youdidnttapthat actually probably #younevermetthat lol

Hair dressers are ok, it's stylists you don't want to bend over near....

Here's a real question. When did hair become "designed"?

because I have seen hair cutting shops that label themselves "designers" which I find odd.

Supplementary question: Did the use of "design" in this context come about solely because of the Talking Heads song "Warning Sign"? You will recall it contains the lyrics:

Warning sign, warning sign,
I see it but I pay it no mind.
Hear my voice, hear my voice,
It's saying something and I hope you're concentrating
I've got money now, I've got money now,
C'mon baby, c'mon baby.

Warning sign of things to come (take it over, take it over)
Someone's talking on my telephone (when we're older,
when we're older)
Hear my voice, move my hair.
I move it around a lot, but I don't care. (what I remember)

Warning sign, warning sign,
Look at my hair, I like the design.
It's the truth, it's the truth.
Your glassy eyes and your open mouth
Take it easy, take it easy,
It's a natural thing and you have to relax,
I've got money now, I've got money now.
C'mon baby, C'mon baby.
Warning sign, of things to come (turn me over, turn me over)
Love is here but I guess it's gone now (hurry up babe,
hurry up babe),
Hear my voice, move my hair.
I move it around a lot, but I don't care.

Do you remember
What it is that you remember
Baby remember
Baby remember.

Do you think that those lyrics inspired this? The song was, after all, released on their genius album from 1978 called "More Songs about Buildings and Food"

Here is a youtube clip of the song:

Z3HVf0-BIRE

That link is a bit special, because it is from their rejected 1975 CBS demo session. You will note that at this point they are a three piece, Jerry Harrison has not yet quit architecture school to join the band. His keyboards really flesh out the early recordings, particularly given Tina's very basic skills at the time - the whole track has to be carried by David's git-box and Chris' drum kit and the vocal.

God, how I love this band.

what were we talking about again?

bogan

5th January 2015, 19:30

Here's a real question. When did hair become "designed"?

They're not even using the fucking term right. There are no cad models, no fancy presentations, but worst of all; their designs get finished on time and on budget. That shit just ain't right.

Woodman

5th January 2015, 19:35

I remember in the eighties a mate was a Talking Heads fan and just played their music constantly. On a piss trip to the big city I got that sick of hearing it that I ejected the tape and threw it out the window of my Charger at near 100mph somewhere between Greymouth and Christchurch.

Odd now I really really like Talking Heads. Wonder if anyone ever found the tape?

HenryDorsetCase

5th January 2015, 19:36

Yeah man, anyone into cars is clearly a hairdresser.

How much you want off the top again? Seems there is already a chunk missing...:devil2:

You meet the nicest people in a Celica.
pointy sweater meats.

Katman

5th January 2015, 19:37

I agree with Tazz; what is it about these conspiracy threads that facilitates such a grammatorium :scratch: oh yeh, idiots :facepalm:

I'm interested to hear your take on the issue of the group of Israelis caught filming the 9/11 attack and celebrating the result.

Woodman

5th January 2015, 19:39

I'm interested to hear your take on the issue of the group of Israelis filming the 9/11 attack and celebrating the result.

Off topic.:weird:

Katman

5th January 2015, 19:47

Off topic.:weird:

Is that because the issue is too hard to address?

oldrider

5th January 2015, 19:47

Off topic.:weird:

Well - It's not actually it's part and parcel fact coinciding with events of 9/11 - just another thing not investigated formally! :mellow:

Woodman

5th January 2015, 19:49

Is that because the issue is too hard to address?

No, because it is too hard to take seriously.

Katman

5th January 2015, 19:59

No, because it is too hard to take seriously.

What, you don't believe it happened?

:scratch:

Woodman

5th January 2015, 20:09

What, you don't believe it happened?

:scratch:

:bleh:

The whole discussion about what happened is what I find hard to take seriously, but fortunately yourself and few others keep me entertained, but not for much longer.

Swoop

5th January 2015, 20:21

Where do I go to redeem* my tin foil hat?
All the evidence points towards "Taupo".

Tazz

5th January 2015, 20:24

pointy sweater meats.

No doubt a few eyes were harmed during that phase.

https://howfashionworksdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bullet-bra.png

There are worse ways to lose depth perception though.

They're not even using the fucking term right. There are no cad models, no fancy presentations, but worst of all; their designs get finished on time and on budget. That shit just ain't right.

On budget is debatable. I have to pay exorbitant prices for a decent bowl cut these days. Sometimes I wonder if it would be less to just trace around a spoon instead.

Mmmm, sure do.

I think I now need a rally spec ST165, and an RA25 with a big supercharger out the bonnet.

I don't reckon they suit the fastback look. Not wide enough or too short or something. Don't mind the later ones with a hatch though. Machines.

bogan

5th January 2015, 21:52

I'm interested to hear your take on the issue of the group of Israelis caught filming the 9/11 attack and celebrating the result.

Similar take to anyone else I hear of celebrating the death of innocents, they are dicks who deserve neither celicas nor pointy sweater meats.

Virago

5th January 2015, 22:22

Yes but that 'conspiracy' tows the line of the official story...

Toes. Toes the line. Remember your grammar please...:lol:

bogan

5th January 2015, 22:24

Toes. Toes the line. Remember your grammar please...:lol:

Mint, I am now more educated than I was yesterday. Just in the nit of thyme for today's quota too :innocent:

Katman

6th January 2015, 06:33

Similar take to anyone else I hear of celebrating the death of innocents, they are dicks who deserve neither celicas nor pointy sweater meats.

What about the van packed with explosives found on the George Washington Bridge that same day?

Were the box-cutter wielding hijackers responsible for that too?

unstuck

6th January 2015, 07:08

Maybe it was a celica that flew into the towers????:shifty:

http://nitroaddiction.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Toyota-Celica-GT4-Sainz.jpg:msn-wink:

R650R

6th January 2015, 07:14

No, because it is too hard to take seriously.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/record_9-11.jpg

bogan

6th January 2015, 08:16

What about the van packed with explosives found on the George Washington Bridge that same day?

Were the box-cutter wielding hijackers responsible for that too?

Ill need some evidence before deciding...

Katman

6th January 2015, 08:32

Ill need some evidence before deciding...

There is evidence out there.

I'd point you towards it myself except you'd only accuse me of presenting that which suited me.

TheDemonLord

6th January 2015, 08:34

I think I like this thread better when it was talking about Old-School Rallying.

I lament for B-Spec Rallying

Also a moments Silence for Colin Mcrae

unstuck

6th January 2015, 08:37

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Audi_Quattro_-_2007_Rallye_Deutschland_%28cropped%29.jpg/1024px-Audi_Quattro_-_2007_Rallye_Deutschland_%28cropped%29.jpg

bogan

6th January 2015, 08:58

There is evidence out there.

I'd point you towards it myself except you'd only accuse me of presenting that which suited me.

If there actually is evidence out there, I'd be unable to accuse you of that at all.

Meanwhile, in evidence for awesome, it does come from america...

http://acrylichrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/69Charger2.jpg

I think I have a penchant for hidden lights...

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 09:01

Cor check out the arse on this. Gulf racing FTW

unstuck

6th January 2015, 09:03

Hidden lights now is it.............

http://www.productioncars.com/send_file.php/ford_ltd_white_1969.jpg

Berries

6th January 2015, 09:05

Some nice wheels being posted. Last seen driving over a bridge in Brooklyn -

mashman

6th January 2015, 09:09

The mighty mean motored metro. I seem to remember these things were banned over safety concerns :laugh:

http://allracingcars.com/gallery/mg-metro-6r4/1986-rally-monte-carlo-mg-metro-6r4.jpg

Madness

6th January 2015, 09:09

awesome...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6syCBrvmJ68" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

. :corn:

unstuck

6th January 2015, 09:09

Niva bitches.........

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/lada/2049031.jpg

Berries

6th January 2015, 09:13

Pimp my ride.

mashman

6th January 2015, 09:15

Pimp my ride.

Sure, and IF she's fit I'll even throw in the bus fare to get her here.

Woodman

6th January 2015, 11:42

If there actually is evidence out there, I'd be unable to accuse you of that at all.

Meanwhile, in evidence for awesome, it does come from america...

http://acrylichrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/69Charger2.jpg

I think I have a penchant for hidden lights...

Faaaaarrk thats cool

Virago

6th January 2015, 11:55

What about the van packed with explosives found on the George Washington Bridge that same day?

Were the box-cutter wielding hijackers responsible for that too?

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/A_truckload_of_explosives

Katman

6th January 2015, 12:13

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/A_truckload_of_explosives

Retracting stories at a later date does not necessarily mean they didn't happen.

It can simply mean someone's had a change of heart. (Or been told to change their story).

There's usually no smoke without fire.

bogan

6th January 2015, 12:28

Retracting stories at a later date does not necessarily mean they didn't happen.

It can simply mean someone's had a change of heart. (Or been told to change their story).

There's usually no smoke without fire.

Yeh I can see why you were so reluctant to post 'evidence' for those claims :yes:

Something about smoke?

http://zombiedrive.com/images/1998-dodge-ram-pickup-3500-1.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 12:35

Yeh I can see why you were so reluctant to post 'evidence' for those claims :yes:

So because Mayor Guiliani and the New York City Police Commisioner contradict the reported story we should just leave it at that?

You really are a model citizen, aren't you?

bogan

6th January 2015, 12:41

So because Mayor Guiliani and the New York City Police Commisioner contradict the reported story we should just leave it at that?

You really are a model citizen, aren't you?

Nope, because none of those involved with the story ever provided a shred of evidence to confirm the originally reported story (which is more likely to be wrong due to hysteria hype, and urgency to report news as it is breaking) we should discount it as evidence for a wider conspiracy; any other take on it is simply confirmation bias.

Models?

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=54134.0;attach=148 292;image

Katman

6th January 2015, 12:51

Nope, because none of those involved with the story ever provided a shred of evidence to confirm the originally reported story (which is more likely to be wrong due to hysteria hype, and urgency to report news as it is breaking) we should discount it as evidence for a wider conspiracy; any other take on it is simply confirmation bias.

Of course, because you can implicitly trust the authorities, can't you?

:rolleyes:

bogan

6th January 2015, 13:02

Of course, because you can implicitly trust the authorities, can't you?

:rolleyes:

I trust the evidence, when all you have is one person against another, that is not what I consider evidence. The reason you consider it evidence is because you are already biased to believe one side over the other.

https://bhorrorblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/black-devil-doll_car-wash.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 13:05

I trust the evidence, when all you have is one person against another, that is not what I consider evidence. The reason you consider it evidence is because you are already biased to believe one side over the other.

So what exactly is your 'evidence'? That two planes flew into two towers? (Something that I have never denied).

Because that's all the 'evidence' I can see that you've presented.

bogan

6th January 2015, 13:08

So what exactly is your 'evidence'? That two planes flew into two towers? (Something that I have never denied).

Because that's all the 'evidence' I can see that you've presented.

Other evidence would be that the towers fell down.

http://pics.imcdb.org/0is19/topgeartoyotahilux12.4861.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 13:18

Other evidence would be that the towers fell down.

I've never denied that either.

See, the difference between you and me is that I would like to know the truth.

You're just happy accepting what the authorities tell you.

Like I said - a model citizen. (Sort of like Ed - except without the drug habit).

Tazz

6th January 2015, 13:31

Just to keep the fatties happy, car of the future. Check out those sexy curves:

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1267255454920238.jpeg

bogan

6th January 2015, 13:32

I've never denied that either.

See, the difference between you and me is that I would like to know the truth.

You're just happy accepting what the authorities tell you.

Like I said - a model citizen.

Wrong, the difference between us is that I recognize an unknowable 'truth' when I hear one. I am able to recognize this because I am also able to recognize what is evidence and what isn't. Those two first ones were the indisputable (by any reasonably minded person) bits of evidence. Next to come would be the peer reviewed evidence; that which is not immediately apparent to a layman. Things like plane velocities, structural tower damage, fall velocities. Other things can come after, like motivations and who said what which loudest, but are largely of little consequence when compared to the former.

And then, occams razor must be applied, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, while it could conceivibly be a cyborg in a duck suit; it's probably just a duck.

http://images.gizmag.com/hero/2823_01.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 13:44

Wrong, the difference between us is that I recognize an unknowable 'truth' when I hear one. I am able to recognize this because I am also able to recognize what is evidence and what isn't. Those two first ones were the indisputable (by any reasonably minded person) bits of evidence. Next to come would be the peer reviewed evidence; that which is not immediately apparent to a layman. Things like plane velocities, structural tower damage, fall velocities. Other things can come after, like motivations and who said what which loudest, but are largely of little consequence when compared to the former.

There is a huge number of highly qualified people who strongly dispute the "peer reviewed evidence" that you so blindly believe.

Katman

6th January 2015, 13:45

And then, occams razor must be applied, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, while it could conceivibly be a cyborg in a duck suit; it's probably just a duck.

And the authorities never lie, right?

:rolleyes:

bogan

6th January 2015, 14:04

There is a huge number of highly qualified people who strongly dispute the "peer reviewed evidence" that you so blindly believe.

And why do you believe those who dispute that make a better case than those who put it forward. Pick one point and we can go through the evidence for that if you like. All the times I've gone through it, those who dispute it do so on their interpretation, not empirical evidence; thus moving such evidence into the latter category of little use.

http://truckphoto.net/jet_truck_bob_motz.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 14:09

And why do you believe those who dispute that make a better case than those who put it forward.

For a start, NIST is a government agency. Do you really expect them to say anything other than what they're told to say?

What have the likes of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth got to gain from disputing the official story - other than uncovering the truth?

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 14:18

And why do you believe those who dispute that make a better case than those who put it forward. Pick one point and we can go through the evidence for that if you like. All the times I've gone through it, those who dispute it do so on their interpretation, not empirical evidence; thus moving such evidence into the latter category of little use.

Ohhhhh I get it now. They're religious people. Gotcha.

Katman

6th January 2015, 14:18

And why do you believe those who dispute that make a better case than those who put it forward.

Why do you think that NIST refuse to disclose their computer modelling process?

Do you really think that to do so would jeopardise public safety?

Why do you think the authorities refuse to release any of the footage from security cameras around the Pentagon? (Footage that doesn't even legally belong to them).

All we've seen is a couple of frames that certainly don't provide any 'evidence' to support the official story.

bogan

6th January 2015, 14:39

Why do you think that NIST refuse to disclose their computer modelling process?

Do you really think that to do so would jeopardise public safety?

Why do you think the authorities refuse to release any of the footage from security cameras around the Pentagon? (Footage that doesn't even legally belong to them).

All we've seen is a couple of frames that certainly don't provide any 'evidence' to support the official story.

So, you're choosing not to go through any specifics of the evidence; skipping the important step of peer reviewed data and going straight to the far more useless motivations and who said whats approach. This is why I say the 'trush' you wish to know is unknowable, because it is not one adherent to evidence.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g237/lewielewielewie/car/90b9f30a.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 14:42

So, you're choosing not to go through any specifics of the evidence; skipping the important step of peer reviewed data and going straight to the far more useless motivations and who said whats approach. This is why I say the 'trush' you wish to know is unknowable, because it is not one adherent to evidence.

How about you show me how the failure of one single column (one of 83) could cause an entire floor area to collapse uniformly at the rate of free fall?

Here's hoping you can convince me - because NIST certainly couldn't.

bogan

6th January 2015, 14:47

How about you show me how the failure of one single column (one of 81) could cause an entire floor area to collapse uniformly at the rate of free fall.

You must first show me the evidence of uniform collapse at freefall speeds and that only one column failed to initiate it, to ensure the correct context.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fhfj2HQegtA/maxresdefault.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 14:52

You must first show me the evidence of uniform collapse at freefall speeds and that only one column failed to initiate it, to ensure the correct context.

Have you not seen the video? Where have you been - asleep?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Mamvq7LWqRU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bear in mind that the collapse you can see with your very own eyes does not at all resemble the computer animation that NIST presented that shows the building buckling and twisting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEKtvB80us

(And the one column failure theory is NIST's official story).

unstuck

6th January 2015, 15:07

http://www.vintageadgallery.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/posters_750/VF141_Ford_Escort_Mexico_1973_750.jpg

bogan

6th January 2015, 15:28

Have you not seen the video? Where have you been - asleep?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Mamvq7LWqRU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bear in mind that the collapse you can see with your very own eyes does not at all resemble the computer animation that NIST presented that shows the building buckling and twisting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEKtvB80us

(And the one column failure theory is NIST's official story).

I've seen many, but they are not evidence, I can't judge freefall acceleration and uniformity from a video; where is the peer reviewed video analysis?

So why does NIST think it was a single column failure then? To gather evidence properly, we must back track to ensure all assumptions are correct in the scope we use them.

http://cdnpix.com/show/imgs/d8eb7a5997a004ee1011c903a05ff298.jpg

Katman

6th January 2015, 15:33

I've seen many, but they are not evidence, I can't judge freefall acceleration and uniformity from a video; where is the peer reviewed video analysis?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/rP9Qp5QWRMQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So why does NIST think it was a single column failure then?

Good question. You should probably ask them.

yokel

6th January 2015, 16:00

I've seen many, but they are not evidence, I can't judge freefall acceleration and uniformity from a video; where is the peer reviewed video analysis?

So why does NIST think it was a single column failure then? To gather evidence properly, we must back track to ensure all assumptions are correct in the scope we use them.

so the videos of the planes hitting the towers are not evidence ether?? hahahahahaha you're fucking moron.

"I can't judge freefall acceleration and uniformity from a video" you obviously cant judge anything from anything unless there's a peer reviewed study on it.

what they are telling you to believe CLEARLY doesn't match the videos, but you're to stupid to see it.

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 16:01

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 16:03

Cool flying truck pic

That's gonna hurt when it lands. any video?

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 16:09

OK, engaging with conspiracy theorists is a hiding to nothing. They are not rational and no matter what the actual evidence is it won't matter because their position will not change. Same as arguing with any religion-blind person, or a Moon landing doubter, or a young-earth creationist (or fuckwit as the technical term is). Giggle, point and laugh and move on. Or post more cool car pics -with or without busy wenches or pointy sweater meats.

A final point, and why people like Dawkins dont get into debates with them: "Well, it would look good on your CV, but not mine."

TheDemonLord

6th January 2015, 16:15

I only like this thread for the cars. Not sure what I am more turned on by, the busty wench and the (?) Ferrari? or the Tom Selleck-alike perched on the Escort Mexico.

I did see a Mk 2 Escort rally special thing the other day which was really tidy.

Busty Wenches on the internet are a dime a Dozen.

Dude rocking the 70's mo, Flares and platforms like a Boss on an old Escort - that is a rare sight to behold

I have to say - I like this style of debate - make a point, Post a car picture - I shall contribute:

click here cause it won't let me imbed it (http://www.zipp.co.uk/gallery/Shelsley-Walsh-2008-08-17/10_35_53-2806.jpg.html)

yokel

6th January 2015, 16:22

Katman

6th January 2015, 16:40

....and no matter what the actual evidence is it.....

There's more evidence that leads to questions than supports the official story.

The fact that the authorities are actively withholding 'evidence' leads to the biggest question of all.

What have they got to hide?

bogan

6th January 2015, 17:00

Katman

6th January 2015, 17:07

....however it was found that NIST did indeed make a clarification on that point, that "Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)" occured.

Their report was ammended after their 'mistake' was pointed out to them.

Do you think the people at NIST tasked with producing the initial report were incompetent or were they perhaps trying to be deliberately misleading?

Do you understand what has to occur within a building structure to achieve freefall?

unstuck

6th January 2015, 17:09

Wish they would have let me do that is this one. Fucking horrible trucks.:niceone:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/284509_227251993986229_2893683_n.jpg?oh=59aca7d203 28bd002c6b68cf810f67ca&oe=5521555A&__gda__=1430678930_6ce0a760a36e47126bd41f27b41b7ff c

R650R

6th January 2015, 17:27

Well I see a few are feeling self conscious about their exuhuberent use of car photos and are trying to hide their homosexuality with truck photos now, cause everyone knows all truckers are straight....

Anyway if you were in New York you might have seen the five isrealis in one of these...

https://christconquers.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/9-11-mural-van.jpg

bogan

6th January 2015, 17:31

Their report was ammended after their 'mistake' was pointed out to them.

Do you think the people at NIST tasked with producing the initial report were incompetent or were they perhaps trying to be deliberately misleading?

Do you understand what has to occur within a building structure to achieve freefall?

Either way, it's all evidence of what happened; remember how this trumps any evidence of perceived motivations and the like.

I understand the basics, but I'm not a structural engineer so I'd prefer to see evidence both presented and interpreted by one. W which has also been peer reviewed by others in order to put into context what has to happen for this and to give an idea how likely this is. Emphasis is on the peer reviewed here, because there is no slam dunk of both sides agreeing on what happened.

http://pegasusnews.com/media/img/photos/2007/01/02/thumbs/pimped_van.jpg.728x520_q85.jpg

unstuck

6th January 2015, 17:33

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01903/plumber_6201_1903118a.jpg

R650R

6th January 2015, 18:26

When you absolutely have to conceal evidence from a crime scene theres nothing like a mafia mob run trucking company and your buddy guiuliani to take care of it

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2876512-4x3-940x705.jpg

HenryDorsetCase

6th January 2015, 20:12

When you absolutely have to conceal evidence from a crime scene theres nothing like a mafia mob run trucking company and your buddy guiuliani to take care of it

Ooooh oooh I know this one! THE SOPRANOS S3 E4 where Anthony has to go to the waste management company and pretend to work to take the heat off from the FBI?

To be honest I think we need to class this thread up a bit... Aston Martin AMV8 Vantage. Oooohhhh errrrr missus. Or as Sean Connery would say "Ashton Marrrrrrtin"

R650R

6th January 2015, 20:21

Aston Martin... yes prob the best way to blend in around New York while scouting locations for the Naudet brothers to film the first attack on the towers....

http://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2012/05/aston-martin-am-310.jpg

Woodman

6th January 2015, 20:27

There's more wild speculation that leads to questions than supports the official story.

The fact that the authorities are actively withholding 'evidence' leads to the biggest question of all.

What have they got to hide?

Blowers, I like blowers

unstuck

6th January 2015, 21:57

Ooooooo blowers :eek:

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/files/2010/11/34rod1.jpg

R650R

7th January 2015, 07:34

Blowers that reminds me for a couple of reasons, it was rumoured Atta and his co boxcutter wielders were getting around in something like this when the team and their CIA handlers were visiting all the Las Vegas strip clubs. Guess when your topping yourself for the promise of 71 virgins you need to see the merchandise on offer first....

http://fancytuning.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cult-dodge-challenger-srt8-3.jpg

unstuck

7th January 2015, 07:56

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/twin-engine-1932-ford-sedan-delivery-hot-rod-up-for-sale-at-hemmings_100450981_m.jpgMustaffa lottacash.

TheDemonLord

7th January 2015, 08:31

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/twin-engine-1932-ford-sedan-delivery-hot-rod-up-for-sale-at-hemmings_100450981_m.jpgMustaffa lottacash.

Needs More Engines

unstuck

7th January 2015, 08:57

Needs More Engines

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Tractor_pull_02.JPG:bleh::bleh:

TheDemonLord

7th January 2015, 15:33

I must confess - I have a softspot for Tractor Pulling

any sport where someone can bolt on multiple Jet engines to a vehicle has to be awesome

R650R

7th January 2015, 15:59

Those are only starter motors, now this is an engine, well gas turbine actually... a bit different to the one that laned on west 86th street next to Attas unblemished passport....

http://www.siemens.com/innovation/pool/en/publikationen/publications_pof/pof_fall_2007/materials_for_the_environment/world_s_largest_gas_turbine/pof207art20_bild1_1465727.jpg

yokel

7th January 2015, 16:09

Those are only starter motors, now this is an engine, well gas turbine actually... a bit different to the one that laned on west 86th street next to Attas unblemished passport....

you have no evidence that the passport was planted to frame someone else to get the blame for their evil deeds apart from unblemished passport it self.

it just "ejected" out of the plane in the crash haha

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZGlua7W1x1Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

unstuck

7th January 2015, 16:10

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1KnXSRXR--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18ogpou9tup35jpg.jpg

mashman

7th January 2015, 16:23

My engine is bigger than your engine :D

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/Sun-Earth_br.jpg

unstuck

7th January 2015, 16:34

My engine is bigger than your engine :D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yqqpq1JYclk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:bleh::bleh::bleh:

mashman

7th January 2015, 16:37

unstuck

7th January 2015, 16:39

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/41/49/41497a66b313a62088a86246464446e2.jpg?itok=dBawUGBu

TheDemonLord

7th January 2015, 20:02

http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/57357-bigthumbnail.jpg

Akzle

7th January 2015, 20:23

[IMG]]

million hache pees at 100rpm.
Burned an offensive number of tonnes of diesel.
Yay boat!

unstuck

8th January 2015, 07:09

Yay boat!

SHIP, newbie.:rolleyes:

I want one of these, cos it has a turbo retard clutch, and that sounds like it would suit me.:wacko:

https://3d-car-shows.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Heavy-Duty-Truck.jpg

R650R

8th January 2015, 07:36

'Nuetral' Swede hauling a train in to help take all the official story believers to the camps where they will be safe....

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6228/6351619751_7145c7f52e.jpg

unstuck

8th January 2015, 08:56

'Nuetral' Swede hauling a train in to help take all the official story believers to the camps where they will be safe....

FH16???? Would love a go in one of them:headbang::headbang::headbang:

R650R

8th January 2015, 16:48

FH16???? Would love a go in one of them:headbang::headbang::headbang:

Yep, 700. Have driven up to 600hp myself on regular basis. More like that would be nice but you've already got plenty at that level anyway.
Always though those straight sixes made better power than Scania V8 configuration too for some reason... Drove an old FH16 520 at roadfrighteners and was pretty impressed.
google HHA megatruckers discovery channel series on youtube, think they showed it on tv recently too....

But these guys have some nice gear.

We should be glad the arabs don't realise westerners are more scared of trucks than plane crashes lol....

https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/NeWuyjaX5Qg/hqdefault.jpg

EJK

8th January 2015, 18:00

'Nuetral' Swede hauling a train in to help take all the official story believers to the camps where they will be safe....

This thread has derailed big time.

Tazz

8th January 2015, 18:58

This thread has derailed big time.

We did our best to keep it on topic =(

http://www.oneighturbo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/1-oneighturbo-porsche-Silverstone-091309.jpg

EJK

8th January 2015, 19:14

Here's my all time favorite 911. Yes, it's still a 911.

<img width="600" src="http://www.mad4wheels.com/webpics/hires/00002899%20-%201998%20Porsche%20911%20GT1%20street%20version/1998_Porsche_911_GT1_street_version_004_6740.jpg" />

unstuck

8th January 2015, 19:15

911 flight simulator.:shifty:

http://www.ausmotive.com/pics/2012/Porsche-911-crash-Phillip-Island.jpg

Tazz

8th January 2015, 19:32

Splooge

Fark that is noice. Looks like a GT1 car.

This would have to be mine:

http://www.6speedonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/IMG_2479.jpg

unstuck

8th January 2015, 19:34

Smoking has killed more people than planes flying into buildings.:shifty:

http://www.ferdinandmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Lorenzo-Pearson-Porsche-911-Dakar-1.jpg

Edbear

8th January 2015, 19:37

This thread has derailed big time.

How many 9/11 threads does it take to wear the subject out?

EJK

8th January 2015, 19:54

How many 9/11 threads does it take to wear the subject out?

911.

Sorry had to say it. Speaking of which...

<img width="600" src="http://image.automobilemag.com/f/34974567+w750+st0/porsche-911-GT2-RS-drift-in-motion.jpg" />

EJK

8th January 2015, 19:56

911 flight simulator.:shifty:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/b31O4FmljGY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:msn-wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b31O4FmljGY

R650R

8th January 2015, 20:26

911.

Sorry had to say it. Speaking of which...

that looks like the Nueremburg ring.... where Bush mind end up on trial if they find out the truth....

Carting away the real plane in bits after it landed at a secret CIA base....

http://www.cargolaw.com/images/disaster2009.water.land48.jpg

EJK

8th January 2015, 20:38

Did Optimus Prime attacked the twin towers?

R650R

8th January 2015, 20:46

Did Optimus Prime attacked the twin towers?

No it was the Evil Man-child Bush and co.... Optimus was busy on tow jobs....

Really this is the original optimus prime truck, wrecker operator bought it and gave it full monty new paint job....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/10/af/4b/10af4bfe3391969d8559104b864a9566.jpg

HenryDorsetCase

8th January 2015, 21:33

Fark that is noice. Looks like a GT1 car.

This would have to be mine:

heh heh "Booby"

what is the big suppository thing the booby sticker is on? Were those 911's still air cooled? Racing in the desert with the air cooled engine in the back. Oh ja ve are Cherman, ve vill make it verk!

Tazz

8th January 2015, 21:52

heh heh "Booby"

what is the big suppository thing the booby sticker is on? Were those 911's still air cooled? Racing in the desert with the air cooled engine in the back. Oh ja ve are Cherman, ve vill make it verk!

I did have something about a phallus encased booby typed in that post, but I pulled out.

They were upgraded to 959 spec from what I read, which were watercooled (so the bastards chickened out).

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2K-nNXE1lRW2j44AzvpKIimz19hlS0erBPcP_W01KZa03gndl

unstuck

9th January 2015, 06:28

http://photos.imageevent.com/motorbiker/newspics4/Porsche-Hess-Motorcycle.jpg

Swoop

9th January 2015, 10:40

what is the big suppository thing the booby sticker is on?
I was going to comment that it was the water reservoir for the radiator. The VW Beetle is air cooled, so that would have been very silly.
So I shall make no such comment.

:bleh:

SPman

9th January 2015, 15:21

Either way, it's all evidence of what happened; remember how this trumps any evidence of perceived motivations and the like.

I understand the basics, but I'm not a structural engineer so I'd prefer to see evidence both presented and interpreted by one. W which has also been peer reviewed by others in order to put into context what has to happen for this and to give an idea how likely this is. Emphasis is on the peer reviewed here, because there is no slam dunk of both sides agreeing on what happened.

it's already sounding like a global warming/no it's not scenario........

The gullible always say that if a conspiracy existed someone would have talked.

But people do talk. It just doesn’t do any good. For example, during George W. Bush’s first term a NSA whistleblower leaked to the New York Times that the NSA was bypassing the FISA Court and spying on American citizens without warrants. Under US law, NSA was in a conspiracy with the Bush regime to commit serious felonies (possibly for the purpose of blackmail), but the New York Times spiked the story for one year until George W. Bush was re-elected and the regime had time to ex post facto legalize the felonies.

Operation Gladio was a conspiracy kept secret for decades until a President of Italy revealed it.

The Northwoods Project was kept secret until years afterward when the second Kennedy Commission revealed it.

More than one hundred first responder police and firemen report hearing and personally experiencing multiple explosions floor by floor and even in the sub-basements of the World Trade Center twin towers, and these testimonies had no effect whatsoever.

It only took one high school physics professor to shoot down NIST’s account of the collapse of WTC 7. The fact that it has been conclusively proven that this building was brought down by controlled demolition has had no effect on the official story.

The co-chairmen and legal counsel of the 9/11 Commission published books in which they say that information was withheld from the Commission, that the US Military lied to the Commission, and that the Commission “was set up to fail.” Neither Congress, the media, nor the US public had any interest in investigating why information was withheld, why the military lied, and why the Commission was set up to fail. These extraordinary statements by the leaders of the official investigation had no impact whatsoever.

Even today a majority of the US population believes Washington’s propaganda that Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed some provinces. Neither judgement nor intelligence are strongpoints of the American public and juries.

Porsche 911's - hate the fucking things, ever since out with a colleague in his 911 Turbo, when he hit the rev limiter in second mid corner, the engine cut momentarily, but it was enough to flick the car backwards off the road through a fence! We were OK but the car was rather rooted.

unstuck

11th January 2015, 09:46

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/01/10/911-firefighter-blows-open-wtc-7-cover-up/ :shifty:

911

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/images/6/500_o5671.jpg

Edbear

17th December 2015, 17:35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=127&v=FzF1KySHmUA

Katman

17th December 2015, 17:56

Nice dredge Ed - I'd forgotten about this one.

Now if a moderator could do their fucking job and clear the thread of the off-topic fucking shit that would be fucking cool.

Cheers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=127&v=FzF1KySHmUA

(I was waiting for the first person to post this moronic shit).

Akzle

17th December 2015, 19:31

Now if a moderator could do their fucking job and clear the thread of the off-topic fucking shit that would be fucking cool.

:scratch:
Forum : Off topic : Rant or Rave : Ultimate 911 POLL

:laugh:

TheDemonLord

17th December 2015, 20:25

(I was waiting for the first person to post this moronic shit)

Pray Tell - why is it Moronic?

Its a very concise and visual demonstration of what happens to Structural steel at high temperatures before Melting....

(like say weakening the structure of a building for several hours)

Me thinks if you had any form of intelligent rebuttal - You'd post it up. But your leap straight to insults speaks volumes.

Woodman

17th December 2015, 20:35

Nice dredge Ed - I'd forgotten about this one.

Now if a moderator could do their fucking job and clear the thread of the off-topic fucking shit that would be fucking cool.

Cheers.

(I was waiting for the first person to post this moronic shit).

Yes, because 9/11 threads should be taken seriously :weird:

Katman

18th December 2015, 06:10

Me thinks if you had any form of intelligent rebuttal - You'd post it up. But your leap straight to insults speaks volumes.

Dude, the video is the epitome of moronic discourse.

The fact that you seem to rate it highly speaks volumes.

5150

18th December 2015, 06:46

Damn, I thought OP was asking which 911 Porsche I like the best?? :facepalm::confused:

TheDemonLord

18th December 2015, 08:34

Dude, the video is the epitome of moronic discourse.

The fact that you seem to rate it highly speaks volumes.

As I said - it is a perfectly valid demonstration of Metal Strength when exposed to heat. You will note he makes no other claims - just merely pointing out that numerous people (Yourself included) keep repeating the same, easily disproved BS about steel and how it behaves when heated.

I think the phrase 'cognitive disonance' springs to mind.....

But how about this - instead of insulting it (and showing your own position to be fundamentally flawed) why don't you post an actual rebuttal about why you don't think it is relevant.

Katman

18th December 2015, 08:42

But how about this - instead of insulting it (and showing your own position to be fundamentally flawed) why don't you post an actual rebuttal about why you don't think it is relevant.

(Let's leave out the fact that he states jet fuel burns at 1500C but chooses to heat his steel rod to 1800C instead).

You seem to have forgotten that a large percentage of the jet fuel ignited and burnt off in the initial fireball. (After all, what did you think that big orange ball was - Scotch mist?)

You also seem to have forgotten that within an hour the area of impact was at a temperature that would allow people to stand and wave without spontaneously combusting.

And even if the area of impact was heated to 1500C for a short while, do you really think that the building's structure 50 floors below got to anywhere near that temperature?

yokel

18th December 2015, 09:11

Pray Tell - why is it Moronic?

Its a very concise and visual demonstration of what happens to Structural steel at high temperatures before Melting....

(like say weakening the structure of a building for several hours)

Me thinks if you had any form of intelligent rebuttal - You'd post it up. But your leap straight to insults speaks volumes.

You Muppet, that doesn't explain the molten steel.

Hey you don't need a plane to hit a building for it to fall down.

TheDemonLord

18th December 2015, 09:19

Okay lets address each one:

(Let's leave out the fact that he states jet fuel burns at 1500C but chooses to heat his steel rod to 1800C instead).

He's a Blacksmith and keeping your forge at a constant temperature is important - not ideal for a true scientific test, but the principle is clearly demonstrated.

You seem to have forgotten that a large percentage of the jet fuel ignited and burnt off in the initial fireball. (After all, what did you think that big orange ball was - Scotch mist?)

So you have the exact weight of fuel that burnt off in the Fireball and that was left in the tanks, and based on the difference between those 2 figures, worked out the weight of fuel that was left over and determine that the energy output of that fuel wasn't sufficient to weaken the Steel Structure? (not to mention all the other combustable things found in offices) or are you basing the statement on what you think occurred?

You also seem to have forgotten that within an hour the area of impact was at a temperature that would allow people to stand and wave without spontaneously combusting.

I really haven't - if you look closely at the video, you will notice, when the Blacksmith stands in front of his Forge (at 1800 degrees, so hotter than Jet fuel) that he doesn't spontaneously combust. Also consider that there are numerous videos on the internet of Blacksmiths working in front of their Forges - and they don't spontaneously combust either!

And even if the area of impact was heated to 1500C for a short while, do you really think that the building's structure 50 floors below got to anywhere near that temperature?

Steel is a fantastic conductor of heat - if you put a thick steel frying pan on a heat source and touch the very edge of it with bare hand - let me know how that goes.

Katman

18th December 2015, 09:25

I really haven't - if you look closely at the video, you will notice, when the Blacksmith stands in front of his Forge (at 1800 degrees, so hotter than Jet fuel) that he doesn't spontaneously combust. Also consider that there are numerous videos on the internet of Blacksmiths working in front of their Forges - and they don't spontaneously combust either!

And I'm sure if someone had been operating a small forge on the 93rd floor it wouldn't have caused the building to collapse either.

Katman

18th December 2015, 09:57

Steel is a fantastic conductor of heat - if you put a thick steel frying pan on a heat source and touch the very edge of it with bare hand - let me know how that goes.

Here's an experiment you could try.

Secure a steel rod in a vice so that the rod extends 6 inches out past the vice on both sides.

Then grab your oxy/acetylene torch and heat a spot 2 inches in from the left hand end of the rod until it's glowing red.

Then grab the right hand end of the rod and see if you can bend it.

Let me know how that goes.

TheDemonLord

18th December 2015, 10:10

Here's an experiment you could try.

Secure a steel rod in a vice so that the rod extends 6 inches out past the vice on both sides.

Then grab your oxy/acetylene torch and heat a spot 2 inches in from the left hand end of the rod until it's glowing red.

Then grab the right hand end of the rod and see if you can bend it.

Let me know how that goes.

We both know what would happen - the Vice would act as a Heat Sink. However assume that I kept that spot Glowing red for an hour, 2 hours would it make a difference to the Experiment? The answer is dependant on the specific heat capacity of the vice, the steel rod, Ambient losses etc (remembering that a building is insulated whereas your steel rod isn't)

Would it make a difference if the other end was heated by flammable material ignited by a Fireball?

pzkpfw

18th December 2015, 11:20

yokel

18th December 2015, 19:48

That's as retarded as the thing I saw not long after the event, on youtube. Some guy sticks a brick on top of a wire rabbit cage. Burns a newspaper inside the cage. Surprise, the brick doesn't squash the cage. Aha! Conspiracy! Therefore secret space based lasers. Or something.

Retards.

Out of all the available vids on YT you choose that one( i've not seen it BTW) to from your opinion??

Yeah you make who the retards are quite clear.

Woodman

18th December 2015, 20:02

Out of all the available vids on YT you choose that one( i've not seen it BTW) to from your opinion??

Yeah you make who the retards are quite clear.

Giant flying balls.....Yes the retards are very clear

yokel

18th December 2015, 20:10

Giant flying balls.....Yes the retards are very clear

Yes The flying giant balls are just a theory thats turns out to be wrong, you do know what a theory is don't you?
I never believed it because it is just a theory you stupid fuck.

bogan

18th December 2015, 20:19

Woodman

18th December 2015, 20:22

Yes The flying giant balls are just a theory thats turns out to be wrong, you do know what a theory is don't you?
I never believed it because it is just a theory you stupid fuck.

Yes I do know what a theory is, but like you say it turned out to be wrong, meaning that when you posted it, you must have believed it, yet now you say you never believed it because it was just a theory.

J.A.W.

18th December 2015, 23:40

Yes I do know what a theory is, but like you say it turned out to be wrong, meaning that when you posted it, you must have believed it, yet now you say you never believed it because it was just a theory.

Been hard at the woodenbong again?

Too funny, you & your whole quaint 'belief' misapprehension..

Science does not require, or indeed, even register 'belief'.. as a concept - & it has no place in scientific inquiry..

Woodman

19th December 2015, 07:46

Been hard at the woodenbong again?

Too funny, you & your whole quaint 'belief' misapprehension..

Science does not require, or indeed, even register 'belief'.. as a concept - & it has no place in scientific inquiry..

There was no science in the giant balls theory. And remember this is yokel we are talking about.

Katman

19th December 2015, 13:56

You forgot the pancake collapse phenomenon.

You mean the one that defies the Laws of Physics?

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:00

You mean the one that defies the Laws of Physics?

You'll want to insult me for doubting your ability to back that statement up I'm guessing? Cos I'm going to more than doubt it, I'm going to say it's completely full of shit.

Basic laws of physics show how it works, an object with momentum takes force to slow down; falling objects convert gravitational potential to this momentum (kenetic energy) which causes more of the objects to fall, thus entering a very simple self sustaining and increasing falling/momentum scenario.

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:02

You'll want to insult me for doubting your ability to back that statement up I'm guessing? Cos I'm going to more than doubt it, I'm going to say it's completely full of shit.

Basic laws of physics show how it works, an object with momentum takes force to slow down; falling objects convert gravitational potential to this momentum (kenetic energy) which causes more of the objects to fall, thus entering a very simple self sustaining and increasing falling/momentum scenario.

I'm sure that's what you want to believe.

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:03

I'm sure that's what you want to believe.

It's just basic physics, were it otherwise you could form a coherent rebuttal... again, your silence speaks volumes :killingme

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:08

Even NIST's report doesn't support the pancake theory.

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:13

Even NIST's report doesn't support the pancake theory.

In its conclusions, or in your interpretation of its 'Laws of Physics' :laugh: :killingme

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:15

In its conclusions, or in your interpretation of its 'Laws of Physics' :laugh: :killingme

FAQ #8

http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:22

FAQ #8

http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm

So, it was elimintated due to them figuring out exactly what did happen.

NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

Guess that's case closed then. And the obvious point to take from that, is the sagging floors pulled the columns inwards, ie, just like taking a hot steel bar and applying a lateral force to bend it; so by your own choice of evidence, it shows the 'moronic shit' in that video is anything but :wings:

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:25

So, it was elimintated due to them figuring out exactly what did happen.

Guess that's case closed then. And the obvious point to take from that, is the sagging floors pulled the columns inwards, ie, just like taking a hot steel bar and applying a lateral force to bend it; so by your own choice of evidence, it shows the 'moronic shit' in that video is anything but :wings:

So you're going to go with the 'super-heated core 50 floors below' theory, are you?

Go back and try that experiment with the oxy/acetylene torch again.

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:29

So you're going to go with the super-heated core 50 floors below theory, are you?

Go back and try that experiment with the oxy/acetylene torch again.

You what? Where does the 50 floors come from. I'm just pointing out that your evidence source for no-pancaky is that the sagging floors bent the heated columns so the columns couldn't pancake. You can't just pick and choose the conclusions from a report while having no basic understanding how they were obtained.

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:33

You what? Where does the 50 floors come from.

How did the steel core of the towers 50 floors below the impact/fire zone heat up sufficiently to allow that part of the building to collapse in the manner that was witnessed?

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:38

How did the steel core of the towers 50 floors below the impact/fire zone heat up sufficiently to allow that part of the building to collapse in the manner that was witnessed?

Who is saying the collapse started 50 floors below the point of impact?

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:43

Who is saying the collapse started 50 floors below the point of impact?

You are truly one of the dumbest fucks on this site.

Nobody claims that the collapse started 50 floors below the point of impact shitforbrains.

But 50 floors (and more) below the point of impact collapsed as though it didn't contain any degree of structural integrity. I'm asking whether you believe that the fire 50 floors above weakened the lower structure to the point where it could crumble like it did.

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:50

You are truly one of the dumbest fucks on this site.

Nobody claims that the collapse started 50 floors below the point of impact shitforbrains.

But 50 floors (and more) below the point of impact collapsed as though it didn't contain any degree of structural integrity. I'm asking whether you believe that the fire 50 floors above weakened the lower structure to the point where it could crumble like it did.

Maybe cos it was hit with the momentum of more than 50 floors of falling mass. At that point it matters not if it was weakened by fire or not. See my basic physics explanation a number of post back for a very simplistic explanation on how momentum and gravitational potential work.

Or, for a more practical explanation, go jump in front of a cyclist; get up after that then go try it with a bus...

Katman

19th December 2015, 14:56

Maybe cos it was hit with the momentum of more than 50 floors of falling mass. At that point it matters not if it was weakened by fire or not. See my basic physics explanation a number of post back for a very simplistic explanation on how momentum and gravitational potential work.

Or, for a more practical explanation, go jump in front of a cyclist; get up after that then go try it with a bus...

By the time the 50 floors above arrived, they had no mass. They had turned to dust.

(Or have you not even seen the video?)

bogan

19th December 2015, 14:59

By the time the 50 floors above arrived, they had no mass. They had turned to dust.

(Or have you not even seen the video?)

Please tell me you're kidding with that shit? I mean I know I said you were getting stupider the other week, but I didn't think you'd continue the trend for whole month :no:

Katman

19th December 2015, 15:12

Please tell me you're kidding with that shit? I mean I know I said you were getting stupider the other week, but I didn't think you'd continue the trend for whole month :no:

Ok, you should probably start by viewing a video of the collapse.

Madness

19th December 2015, 15:16

What are you two getting each other for Christmas?

bogan

19th December 2015, 15:17

Ok, you should probably start by viewing a video of the collapse.

And you should probably start with primary school if you think 50 floors of a falling building can turn to some sort of massless dust. I mean FFS, you're on the list with yokel and mashy now, literally too stupid to have an opinion of any value whatsoever; if you need an illustrative measure of severity for that, Ed's not on the list.

Akzle

19th December 2015, 15:18

What are you two getting each other for Christmas?

a meal for two with a hairy view...

bogan

19th December 2015, 15:19

What are you two getting each other for Christmas?

I was going to give him an education, but he just went on the naughty list...

yokel

19th December 2015, 15:20

If someone doesn't realise the pancake theory/intentional lie is a wrong after pointing it out?
Then there is no help for them.

https://kendoc911.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/claphands911meme.jpg

Akzle

19th December 2015, 15:24

If someone doesn't realise the pancake theory/intentional lie is a wrong after pointing it out?
Then there is no help for them.

[img]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNXElmEUIJo

Katman

19th December 2015, 15:31

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNXElmEUIJo

Fuck, it was probably him that caused them to collapse.

Katman

19th December 2015, 15:37

If someone doesn't realise the pancake theory/intentional lie is a wrong after pointing it out?
Then there is no help for them.

On the right of that picture is a huge section of the building falling outward.

Below that would certainly not have the same mass bearing down on it any more.

Yet it continued to crumble as though it did.

bogan

19th December 2015, 15:40

On the right of that picture is a huge section of the building falling outward.

Below that would certainly not have the same mass bearing down on it any more.

Yet it continued to crumble as though it did.

F=ma 10mfch

Katman

19th December 2015, 15:42

F=ma

Did you learn that at university or did you just look it up?

bogan

19th December 2015, 15:53

Did you learn that at university or did you just look it up?

Force is what affect the floors below. As m decreases slightly while increasing, a is still increasing; thus f is increasing.

Katman

19th December 2015, 16:03

Force is what affect the floors below. As m decreases slightly while increasing, a is still increasing; thus f is increasing.

Seriously, are your eyes telling you that section of building that fell outward was a 'slight' decrease in mass?

yokel

19th December 2015, 16:04

Force is what affect the floors below. As m decreases slightly while increasing, a is still increasing; thus f is increasing.

Just more mindless verbal diarrhoea.

767 flight envelope

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/11fakeVgdiagramp4tlies.jpg

bogan

19th December 2015, 16:09

Seriously, are your eyes telling you that section of building that fell outward was a 'slight' decrease in mass?

Yup, just as I'm telling you the mass was increasing as each floor that failed started it's downward movement, and just as I'm telling you that as the speed increased so must the local acceleration at the failure front.

Katman

19th December 2015, 16:25

Yup, just as I'm telling you the mass was increasing as each floor that failed started it's downward movement, and just as I'm telling you that as the speed increased so must the local acceleration at the failure front.

Then clearly you're beyond help.

yokel

19th December 2015, 16:32

A lesson in physics, the weight of the falling top section of the tower is at 36% of it's mass.

https://youtu.be/DPwwcXF_V0c?t=41m20s

Woodman

19th December 2015, 17:11

A lesson in physics, the weight of the falling top section of the tower is at 36% of it's mass.

https://youtu.be/DPwwcXF_V0c?t=41m20s

For those of us who can't be fucked sitting through 1hr 48 of boring shit delivered by a boring guy with a bad haircut to an audience also with bad haircuts, can you explain what this invited guest was going on about.

I wonder if they invited any one to balance the argument? I would guess no because it wouldn't fit their agenda, and they wouldn't listen anyway.

Katman

19th December 2015, 17:25

For those of us who can't be fucked sitting through 1hr 48 of boring shit delivered by a boring guy with a bad haircut to an audience also with bad haircuts, can you explain what this invited guest was going on about.

Don't worry, you probably wouldn't understand it anyway.

Katman

21st December 2015, 15:19

The push to get the 28 pages of the 9/11 Congressional Inquiry declassified continues to gain support.

http://28pages.org/2015/12/19/holiday-rush-8-more-reps-urge-release-of-28-pages-on-911/

TheDemonLord

21st December 2015, 15:43

The push to get the 28 pages of the 9/11 Congressional Inquiry declassified continues to gain support.

http://28pages.org/2015/12/19/holiday-rush-8-more-reps-urge-release-of-28-pages-on-911/

If they were so steadfast in their support - they would just release it themselves (like a proper whistleblower)

This is more about pandering to the American voter. Just like Mr Trump is doing.

Katman

21st December 2015, 15:44

If they were so steadfast in their support - they would just release it themselves (like a proper whistleblower)

Perhaps they'd like to keep their jobs at the same time.

TheDemonLord

21st December 2015, 15:54

Perhaps they'd like to keep their jobs at the same time.

Thank you for proving my entire point.

Katman

21st December 2015, 16:24

Thank you for proving my entire point.

You don't have a point.

TheDemonLord

21st December 2015, 20:41

You don't have a point.

I do, you just need to be able to understand it.

If you really want, I can spell it out to you - but I CBF.

Katman

21st December 2015, 21:00

I do, you just need to be able to understand it.

If you really want, I can spell it out to you - but I CBF.

If your point is that they should risk making themselves liable for a 10 year prison term by prematurely disclosing the classified information, then it's a pretty fucking stupid point.

But I suppose that should come as no surprise to anyone.

bogan

21st December 2015, 21:10

If your point is that they should risk making themselves liable for a 10 year prison term by prematurely disclosing the classified information, then it's a pretty fucking stupid point.

But I suppose that should come as no surprise to anyone.

I think the more relevant point is, that pointing the blame to a foreign country to help said terrorists is reliant on not just the basic physical possibility, but the near certain probability of events happening as per the nist report; completely devoid of your aforementioned <s>pixie</s> massless dust :whistle:

But I guess it is a different day so it's no surprise your 'theory' has completely changed... And I know this has taken a while, but how are you going on fact checking that opinionated bloke's US household figures, you're not counting them individually are you? because I think you'll run out of fingers and toes a bit too quick :killingme

Katman

21st December 2015, 21:21

I think the more relevant point is, that pointing the blame to a foreign country to help said terrorists is reliant on not just the basic physical possibility, but the near certain probability of events happening as per the nist report; completely devoid of your aforementioned <s>pixie</s> massless dust :whistle:

The possibility that the Saudi government was heavily involved in the planning and execution of 9/11 in no way absolves the US government of their part in it.

In fact it begs the question, if the US were aware of Saudi involvement in an attack on US soil right from day 1, why would they still consider Saudi Arabia as an ally?

bogan

21st December 2015, 21:25

The possibility that the Saudi government was heavily involved in the planning and execution of 9/11 in no way absolves the US government of their part in it.

In fact it begs the question, if the US were aware of Saudi involvement in an attack on US soil right from day 1, why would they still consider Saudi Arabia as an ally?
And yet, all that is baseless conjecture. Of course you're probably about to counter that if the docs show that to be true it wouldn't be baseless, which will be just hilarious...

Katman

21st December 2015, 21:30

And yet, all that is baseless conjecture. Of course you're probably about to counter that if the docs show that to be true it wouldn't be baseless, which will be just hilarious...

Well there's been plenty of 'clues' dropped by those who have read the 28 pages.

To call it baseless conjecture is clutching at straws somewhat.

bogan

21st December 2015, 21:33

Well there's been plenty of 'clues' dropped by those who have read the 28 pages.

To call it baseless conjecture is clutching at straws somewhat.
Of course they are dropping 'clues' it's how they stay in the media and garner votes. Surely you've noticed all the clues are baseless, as is the conjecture, as is the theory.

Katman

21st December 2015, 21:50

Of course they are dropping 'clues' it's how they stay in the media and garner votes. Surely you've noticed all the clues are baseless, as is the conjecture, as is the theory.

There's that wilful ignorance again.

bogan

21st December 2015, 21:56

There's that wilful ignorance again.
Speaking of which, how is your fact checking of that opinionated bloke's article going?

Katman

21st December 2015, 22:04

Speaking of which, how is your fact checking of that opinionated bloke's article going?

You seem greatly concerned by what 6 trillion divided by 75,000 is.

bogan

21st December 2015, 22:09

You seem greatly concerned by what 6 trillion divided by 75,000 is.
No I'm just pointing out the wilful ignorance actually demonstrated is your own. You've got fuck all so expect to insult everyone else into making your points for you; fucking pathetic.

TheDemonLord

21st December 2015, 22:13

If your point is that they should risk making themselves liable for a 10 year prison term by prematurely disclosing the classified information, then it's a pretty fucking stupid point.

But I suppose that should come as no surprise to anyone.

No, My point is that IF what was in the 28 pages was as damning as they imply it to be and they are as deeply offended by it as they claim to be and it was concrete evidence that another Sovreign country helped with the 9/11 Attack then they would release it (Edward Snowden springs to mind, The Watergate Scandal springs to mind, Erwin Rommel springs to mind).

History is full of Whistleblowers who when confronted with something that they are fundamentally opposed to and know to be wrong - they stick their neck out.

Since they aren't doing that, it tends to suggest that all they are doing is making noise in order to Drum up votes/support - By pandering to the lowest common denominator.