Police erode public faith article

[Murray]

Just came across this interesting article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/64786447/Police-erode-public-faith-with-zero-tolerance-zeal

pretty much sums it up and been said before!

What surprises me most is that it was released 05.00 09/01/15 and 419 comments posted already and reading some (there's too many to read them all) it's mostly one way traffic.

Bigger discontent than I expected through a one-off news article.

[Scuba_Steve]

And this erosion is just getting worse by the year :wait:

[Murray]

The response to that article certainly goes against this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/64791693/More-people-dob-in-bad-drivers

Which includes:

The number of public reports or complaints to police reinforced a finding from a survey last year - the Public Attitudes to Road Safety survey - conducted by the Ministry of Transport, he said.

The study found 93 per cent of New Zealanders wanted the level of road policing either increased (40 per cent) or maintained at the present level (53 per cent).

The same survey showed 81 per cent of those surveyed agreed that speed enforcement helped lower the road toll.

Surveys & stats - all damn lies

[haydes55]

The response to that article certainly goes against this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/64791693/More-people-dob-in-bad-drivers

Which includes:

The number of public reports or complaints to police reinforced a finding from a survey last year - the Public Attitudes to Road Safety survey - conducted by the Ministry of Transport, he said.

The study found 93 per cent of New Zealanders wanted the level of road policing either increased (40 per cent) or maintained at the present level (53 per cent).

The same survey showed 81 per cent of those surveyed agreed that speed enforcement helped lower the road toll.

Surveys & stats - all damn lies

Everyone is bombarded with bullshit advertising, saying again and again that the faster you go, the bigger the mess...... Years worth of this very one sided advertising... Then they ask the public if speed kills? Of course average Joe will say speeding kills people, they were told so as "fact".

About as stupid as advertising Ducatis on TV with a slogan about them being the fastest bike around, then asking people what motorbikes are fastest...

You can't survey a question that you advertise an answer to.

[bluninja]

The response to that article certainly goes against this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/64791693/More-people-dob-in-bad-drivers

Which includes:

The number of public reports or complaints to police reinforced a finding from a survey last year - the Public Attitudes to Road Safety survey - conducted by the Ministry of Transport, he said.

The study found 93 per cent of New Zealanders wanted the level of road policing either increased (40 per cent) or maintained at the present level (53 per cent).

The same survey showed 81 per cent of those surveyed agreed that speed enforcement helped lower the road toll.

Surveys & stats - all damn lies

It would be interesting what change (if any) there would be if the same survey was done, after the publicity that after zero tolerance on speed by police 17 road deaths occurred in the holiday period.

It's also interesting how the place several things together to imply linkage without any proof. They have had more calls to *555 than before 12706, of which 8715 were traffic related. The police refer to callers dobbing in "bad motorists"; had there been an increase in the numbers of people calling specifically about speeding motorists I'm certain that would have been highlighted. Then follows a survey (some time last years) that says people want more (or same) levels of road policing and focus on speeding helped. It's a bit hard to believe the results of a survey carried out by part of the mechanism that put the speeding policies in place.

Interesting at the end that PROVISIONAL crash reports indicate that 15 of the deaths had alcohol and/or speed as CONTRIBUTING factors. Surely it would be prudent to complete the crash reports before giving out possibly flawed data. Clearly they are not saying those factors caused the crash, just contributed....how much? we don't know....could be just 1%, could be more.

[Akzle]

jews did it.

[BlackSheepLogic]

The study found 93 per cent of New Zealanders wanted the level of road policing either increased (40 per cent) or maintained at the present level (53 per cent). The same survey showed 81 per cent of those surveyed agreed that speed enforcement helped lower the road toll.

Unfortunately people with very polarized strong views (righteous for example) tend to fill out surveys which the rest of us chose to ignore. This leads to a bias on the survey.

[Flip]

IMHO the Rozza are scum, they spend all day dealing with scumbags and they are little better than the people they asscoiate with.

When I was a lot younger my vehicle and I was searched illegally on the side of the road by a scum bag. Since then my general opinion of the rozza has been as lying scum bags. One of my good friends was a DI "scrote and asshole" even he was ubnable to change my opinion.

I won't talk to or help the Rozza in any way. I would help to prevent a crime from being comitted but would never help the Rozza with an investigation.

[Mike.Gayner]

I agree with you Flip. No one should ever talk to the police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[mada]

I agree quite a bit with the article. The major killer and cause of accidents on our roads is inattentive driving or drivers who do not drive to the required conditions.

But unlike speed and drink these are much harder to target and more time consuming for Police.

With lowering fuel prices, I expect to see an actual increase in accident rates as more people decide to drive on more occasions than before when they may have considered the higher price of fuel.

The last video I saw by Police regarding speed was pathetic. It starred an ex-Netball player who was talking about a guy who had driven 60km/h in a 50km/h zone and hit a kid who was on a bicycle and pulled out from behind a parked truck. An unfortunate incident, but it would've happened regardless of the speed!!!

She basically stated on the video "if he had spent more time looking at his speedo the kid might not have been hurt so much" - yeh nah, it would have actually been safer if the driver was going faster than 60km/h as he may have got past the location quicker! Even at 50km/h he still would have hit the kid. If he was staring at his speedo, like suggested then his chances of doing damage would be even higher - because his attention is not on the road - resulting in no braking at all. :weird::facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

as a theory about the Survey results:

if I asked everyone here:

Would you like Police to pay more attention to bad driving?


the result would almost be overwhelmingly positive

there are 2 factors I would theorise for this:

1: the person answering the survey believes them to not be in the group they feel the police should be looking at (everyone's an above average driver)
2: I didn't mention speed.

I will be interested in the results once the dust settles and in particularly when the next public holiday comes along what happens.

[bluninja]

The last video I saw by Police regarding speed was pathetic. It starred an ex-Netball player who was talking about a guy who had driven 60km/h in a 50km/h zone and hit a kid who was on a bicycle and pulled out from behind a parked truck. An unfortunate incident, but it would've happened regardless of the speed!!!

She basically stated on the video "if he had spent more time looking at his speedo the kid might not have been hurt so much" - yeh nah, it would have actually been safer if the driver was going faster than 60km/h as he may have got past the location quicker! Even at 50km/h he still would have hit the kid. If he was staring at his speedo, like suggested then his chances of doing damage would be even higher - because his attention is not on the road - resulting in no braking at all. :weird::facepalm:

There are places where speed limits need to be lower....such as around schools or shopping precincts. It is not about the drivers ability to avoid the accident, it is about the survivability of an accident at the speed limit. Small kids don't think , have limited spatial awareness and can't be seen when standing between cars. Low speed limits around schools, playgrounds and shops should be there so the kids, that run out between parked cars onto the bumper of a car, have a chance of surviving.

Clearly that distinction was lost on the ex netball player and the organisation making the video.

[swbarnett]

as a theory about the Survey results:
...
If you want to know the truth about surveys take a look at what Humphrey Appleby had to say about them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

[swbarnett]

There are places where speed limits need to be lower....such as around schools or shopping precincts. It is not about the drivers ability to avoid the accident, it is about the survivability of an accident at the speed limit. Small kids don't think , have limited spatial awareness and can't be seen when standing between cars. Low speed limits around schools, playgrounds and shops should be there so the kids, that run out between parked cars onto the bumper of a car, have a chance of surviving.

Clearly that distinction was lost on the ex netball player and the organisation making the video.
That's like saying "lets make all the knives blunt so we don't cut anyone". It's not about speed - even around schools. There's a primary school near where I live that is on a 70kph road. I've been through there a number of times just after school got out and all the kids, without exception, are either keeping well off the road or being picked up by parents on the school grounds. If that one's perfectly safe at 70 then why the are others so dangerous at 50?

[scumdog]

I would help to prevent a crime from being comitted but would never help the Rozza with an investigation.

Then the one you disadvantage ain't the cop - it's the victim.

Or do you intend to only 'never help' if the investigation doesn't relate to a victim??

[scumdog]

I agree with you Flip. No one should ever talk to the police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc


I ain't wasting 48+ minutes of MY life watching that load of tripe...<_<

[mstriumph]

jews did it.

dolly did it.

[mstriumph]

Then the one you disadvantage ain't the cop - it's the victim.

Or do you intend to only 'never help' if the investigation doesn't relate to a victim??

You are one of my favourite people ... but, profession-wise, you aren't typical.
If you need help, I'll give it gladly
but if that bastard with his hands on hips hung round with armaments he seemed to think made him a man, the one with bad breath and an attitude to match using his badge to BULLY me about the depth of tread on my front tyre that there was ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with ... if THAT excuse for a human being (or any similar) wanted my help, well, I wouldn't urinate on him if he were on fire and begging

sorry - just the way it is

[Akzle]

If that one's perfectly safe at 70 then why the are others so dangerous at 50?

townies are touched in the head...

[Akzle]

I wouldn't urinate on him if he were on fire and begging


oh but you did for me :devil2:

[TheDemonLord]

If you want to know the truth about surveys take a look at what Humphrey Appleby had to say about them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA


Hehehe - its been a while since I have watched Yes, Prime Minister!

But yes - Leading questions are such fun things aren't they

[mstriumph]

oh but you did for me :devil2:

only because I was sorry for having set you on fire ...

[Akzle]

only because I was sorry for having set you on fire ...

could have happened to anyone...and given the places you put candles! Nelly!

[mstriumph]

That's like saying "lets make all the knives blunt so we don't cut anyone". It's not about speed - even around schools. There's a primary school near where I live that is on a 70kph road. I've been through there a number of times just after school got out and all the kids, without exception, are either keeping well off the road or being picked up by parents on the school grounds. If that one's perfectly safe at 70 then why the are others so dangerous at 50?

can't answer, don't know that road
have to say though there could be many reasons, location, visibility, condition/width of road

you seem to be arguing that, just because one brown dog doesn't chase chickens then all brown dogs should be trustworthy in the hen house ... ithat isn't a reasonable arguement ...

[mstriumph]

I..............

The last video I saw by Police regarding speed was pathetic. It starred an ex-Netball player who was talking about a guy who had driven 60km/h in a 50km/h zone and hit a kid who was on a bicycle and pulled out from behind a parked truck. An unfortunate incident, but it would've happened regardless of the speed!!!

She basically stated on the video "if he had spent more time looking at his speedo the kid might not have been hurt so much" - yeh nah, it would have actually been safer if the driver was going faster than 60km/h as he may have got past the location quicker! Even at 50km/h he still would have hit the kid. If he was staring at his speedo, like suggested then his chances of doing damage would be even higher - because his attention is not on the road - resulting in no braking at all. :weird::facepalm:

in many cases there is no other POSSIBLE excuse for the speed limit posted in certain locations ... other than revenue raising

it sort of follows, then, that any attempt to uphold the validity of ALL speed limits on the general basis of 'safety' is - well - moronic

[haydes55]

That's like saying "lets make all the knives blunt so we don't cut anyone". It's not about speed - even around schools. There's a primary school near where I live that is on a 70kph road. I've been through there a number of times just after school got out and all the kids, without exception, are either keeping well off the road or being picked up by parents on the school grounds. If that one's perfectly safe at 70 then why the are others so dangerous at 50?

That's the pokeno one right? I can vouch for that, they have a parking bay where parents can drive to pick up the kids and a good fence/gate.

On a slightly different note, about 500m down the road (heading into pokeno from Tuakau) is a road workers fuck up of a repair job. In the rain the corner is shiny tar on the inside, then drops into a gravel filled repair job several inches below the rest of the road, so if you take the inside line, the bike will slide out into the lower patch, so the bike will drop out from under you, then there isn't a lot of grip there either... I know this corner is dodgy as fuck, and even at slow speeds my bike still slides through the corner.

[scumdog]

could have happened to anyone...and given the places you put candles! Nelly!

Speaking of those candles, your mum wants them back in time for your birthday....

[Berries]

Speaking of those candles, your mum wants them back in time for your birthday....
All four of them?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oaGpaj2nHIo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[swbarnett]

can't answer, don't know that road
have to say though there could be many reasons, location, visibility, condition/width of road
All of which are present irrespective of the presence of a school.

Part of the problem is that most city kids are picked up and don't get the chance to learn road sense walking home.

One other thing I just remembered about that school. I don't think I've ever seen a parent's car parked on the opposite of the road when school gets out.


you seem to be arguing that, just because one brown dog doesn't chase chickens then all brown dogs should be trustworthy in the hen house ... ithat isn't a reasonable arguement ...
This implies that only one brown dog doesn't chase chickens. It would be a more correct analogy to say that most brown dogs don't chase chickens. One brown that chases chickens does not give you the right to treat all brown dogs as if they do. This is called discrimination. This kind of thinking is why some people label all Muslims as terrorists.

Are all men rapists because a very, very small proportion are?

[swbarnett]

That's the pokeno one right? I can vouch for that, they have a parking bay where parents can drive to pick up the kids and a good fence/gate.
The one I'm talking about is Harrisville Rd. school on the north end of Tuakau. I know the one you mean though and, yes they are pretty much the same.

Far too many parents drive their kids to school in the cities. This makes it very hard to provide enough pick up area. I used to pass Westlake Boys High School regularly and the number of SUVs was hard to believe. Impossible to do more than 20kph sometimes with people crawling looking for a space. I'd have to say though, I never once thought 50kph would've been too fast as the students were extremely well behaved as far as the road goes.


On a slightly different note, about 500m down the road (heading into pokeno from Tuakau) is a road workers fuck up of a repair job. In the rain the corner is shiny tar on the inside, then drops into a gravel filled repair job several inches below the rest of the road, so if you take the inside line, the bike will slide out into the lower patch, so the bike will drop out from under you, then there isn't a lot of grip there either... I know this corner is dodgy as fuck, and even at slow speeds my bike still slides through the corner.
Ouch. I haven't been through there recently. To do with the new sub-division perhaps.

[unstuck]

I used to pass Westlake Boys High School regularly

There is a name for dudes like you.:shit::innocent:

[swbarnett]

There is a name for dudes like you.:shit::innocent:
"Commuter" perhaps? :innocent:

[PrincessBandit]

Geez, I used to think "who on earth would ever be a teacher?"; I now think "who on earth would ever be a cop?" especially for people who go in with the best of intentions (which get ground away by the sheer shittiness of the shit they deal with).

[swbarnett]

Geez, I used to think "who on earth would ever be a teacher?"; I now think "who on earth would ever be a cop?" especially for people who go in with the best of intentions (which get ground away by the sheer shittiness of the shit they deal with).
Perhaps if we return to a society where the general public isn't treated as the enemy by those in a position of power then the job wouldn't be so bad.

The same goes for the rest of us. Don't tar the many for the actions of the few.

[FJRider]

Far too many parents drive their kids to school in the cities.

The very act of trying to ensure their safety ... puts them in a very high danger zone. :rolleyes:

Add stupid driving/parking skills of those parents ... :wacko:

[RDJ]

Perhaps if we return to a society where the general public isn't treated as the enemy by those in a position of power then the job wouldn't be so bad.

Precisely, this.

[Swoop]

That's the pokeno one right?
Q: If a policeman writes out a ticket in Pokeno, is this incestuous?
:scratch:

[Murray]

Q: If a policeman writes out a ticket in Pokeno, is this incestuous?
:scratch:

Not as much as Gore!!!

[ellipsis]

...the only cop I know who wasn't human was RoboCop...every one knows about humans...some are fucked in the brain, some are even moreso...some are soft and some are wankers...and so on...some cunts should not just be given a uniform because they passed the qualifications and promised to obey the rules...this would apply to St Johns volunteers, the Police, Bus Drivers and Firemen and all the other uniformy type of jobs...there's something about uniforms...

[unstuck]

Not as much as Gore!!!

Oi, we have good coppers down here. Never heard of anyone getting a ticket for 1kmh over the limit down here. And if they did, they would go and let the coppers tires down in the night, not cry like a bunch of babies on the interwebs.:bleh::bleh:

[Murray]

Oi, we have good coppers down here. Never heard of anyone getting a ticket for 1kmh over the limit down here. And if they did, they would go and let the coppers tires down in the night, not cry like a bunch of babies on the interwebs.:bleh::bleh:

hoy stop stalking me. I feel the love though!!!

[unstuck]

hoy stop stalking me. I feel the love though!!!

You started it.:msn-wink:

[mstriumph]

..............
One other thing I just remembered about that school. I don't think I've ever seen a parent's car parked on the opposite of the road when school gets out.
that's probably a lot to do with it ... parents acting sensibly


.This implies that only one brown dog doesn't chase chickens. ......... you were only talking about one school - the analogy still appears valid? (......how the hell did Muslims get in on this act??!!! :girlfight: )

[swbarnett]

that's probably a lot to do with it ... parents acting sensibly
Yeah, I've noticed that people seem to be more courteous in general since we've gone semi-rural.


you were only talking about one school - the analogy still appears valid? (......how the hell did Muslims get in on this act??!!! :girlfight: )
I used one school as an example of how it can and should be. You came back accusing me of saying "just because one brown dog doesn't chase chickens then all brown dogs should be trustworthy in the hen house". I took this to be an analogy to driving. In that case I'm saying that most drivers "don't chase chickens", not just one.

In your post I read an implication that just because one driver can't drive you want every driver treated as if they can't. To think this way leads to all sorts of prejudice. Hence the Muslim reference.

I take it that this isn't what you meant?

[Flip]

Then the one you disadvantage ain't the cop - it's the victim.

Or do you intend to only 'never help' if the investigation doesn't relate to a victim??

Even then its name, rank and serial number.

[BlackSheepLogic]

In your post I read an implication that just because one driver can't drive you want every driver treated as if they can't. To think this way leads to all sorts of prejudice.

+1 The thinking that if we legislate to the lowest common denominator we will all be safe BS. Te focus needs to be on those few drivers who actually make the roads dangerous. Mandatory training for multiple offenders and at fault drivers would help. I would also also advocate for mandatory training for anyone involved in an accident before being allowed to drive/ride again.

[unstuck]

. I would also also advocate for mandatory training for anyone involved in an accident before being allowed to drive/ride again.

Victims or victimizers? Or just ALL parties involved? :innocent:

[FJRider]

+1 The thinking that if we legislate to the lowest common denominator we will all be safe BS.

Raising the lowest common denominator should be better ... and safer.


Te focus needs to be on those few drivers who actually make the roads dangerous.

Few .. ??? :scratch:

Which are the dangerous ones ... the slow ones .. the fast ones .. the drunk ones .. the stupid ones ... the texters .. the ones on the phone .. the ones that can't keep left ... ?? Be more specific ...


Mandatory training for multiple offenders and at fault drivers would help. I would also also advocate for mandatory training for anyone involved in an accident before being allowed to drive/ride again.

What sort of training would be recommend ... ?? (to suit every accident case). And as already well proven ... knowing the road rules won't ensure they will be obeyed. Unless it suits ... or there's a cop watching.

Many even crash with no laws or legislation being broken by them.

[kiwi cowboy]

"Commuter" perhaps? :innocent:

I think the word your looking for is unstuck? unhinged? unstuck???:innocent:

[BlackSheepLogic]

Victims or victimizers? Or just ALL parties involved? :innocent:

Those in control.... Training for those hapless individuals who suffer unavoidable accidents should not be overlooked.

[kiwi cowboy]

Oi, we have good coppers down here. Never heard of anyone getting a ticket for 1kmh over the limit down here. And if they did, they would go and let the coppers tires down in the night, not cry like a bunch of babies on the interwebs.:bleh::bleh:

So that's where ya get too in the night times is it gov?????? :girlfight::girlfight:

[BlackSheepLogic]

Which are the dangerous ones ... the slow ones .. the fast ones .. the drunk ones .. the stupid ones ... the texters .. the ones on the phone .. the ones that can't keep left ... ?? Be more specific ...

All of the above.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpJveCBanB4

[unstuck]

So that's where ya get too in the night times is it gov?????? :girlfight::girlfight:

Fuck you sheep shagger, you got no proof.:motu:

[mstriumph]

Yeah, I've noticed that people seem to be more courteous in general since we've gone semi-rural.


I used one school as an example of how it can and should be. You came back accusing me of saying "just because one brown dog doesn't chase chickens then all brown dogs should be trustworthy in the hen house". I took this to be an analogy to driving. In that case I'm saying that most drivers "don't chase chickens", not just one.

In your post I read an implication that just because one driver can't drive you want every driver treated as if they can't. To think this way leads to all sorts of prejudice. Hence the Muslim reference.

I take it that this isn't what you meant?

FFS - I give up.:mellow:

[Berries]

Success.




10mfc.

[swbarnett]

Few .. ??? :scratch:
There are a lot of drivers that are dis-courteous but not actually dangerous.

[swbarnett]

FFS - I give up.:mellow:
Yeah, wise move. I re-read your posts and realised that I completely took two parts of what you said separately instead of looking at one in the context of the other.

i.e. massive comprehension fuck-up brought on by trying to answer too many posts in a short space of time. Sorry.

[rastuscat]

Sitting in a Dunkin Donuts in Saigon as I write this. Bless public wifi.

You guys should all come here and experience a real motorcycle culture. It'd open a few eyes.

It feels funny to sit outside the NZ community and read all the derision
. The speed issue sure has raised a lot of discussion. That on its own almost makes it worth it.

I sure hope that something comes of the furore.

[unstuck]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130816960]Sitting in a Dunkin Donuts /QUOTE]

My idea of heaven. :drool:

[FJRider]

Fuck you sheep shagger, you got no proof.:motu:

No pic's ... didn't happen.


KB 101 ...

[mstriumph]

Yeah, wise move. I re-read your posts and realised that I completely took two parts of what you said separately instead of looking at one in the context of the other.

i.e. massive comprehension fuck-up brought on by trying to answer too many posts in a short space of time. Sorry.
happens :drinknsin: no problem

[BlackSheepLogic]

There are a lot of drivers that are dis-courteous but not actually dangerous.

While living in the US some traffic tickets could have the points mitigated and fines reduced by taking a half day class in road safety. I think this is a much better idea as once a driver has been identified as a problem on the road they are "encouraged" to improve there driving rather than being just being a revenue source.

[scumdog]

While living in the US some traffic tickets could have the points mitigated and fines reduced by taking a half day class in road safety. I think this is a much better idea as once a driver has been identified as a problem on the road they are "encouraged" to improve there driving rather than being just being a revenue source.

Given by the most common attitude I see/read you would have to beat most Kiwi drivers with a big stick to get them to attend a class on road safety. They's all good drivers donchaknow...;)

[rastuscat]

Many even crash with no laws or legislation being broken by them.

Describe such a crash please. I'd be willing to bet Careless Driving covers every crash.

[swbarnett]

Describe such a crash please. I'd be willing to bet Careless Driving covers every crash.
How about:


Loss of control due to invisible black ice on an otherwise dry road.
Catastrophic mechanical failure. A tyre blow out perhaps.
Caught in the middle of a landslide.


To name but a few.

[rastuscat]

How about:


Loss of control due to invisible black ice on an otherwise dry road.
Catastrophic mechanical failure. A tyre blow out perhaps.
Caught in the middle of a landslide.


To name but a few.

Well spotted. I thought you were referring to driver-caused crashes, which make up by far the vast majority of crashes.

To be sure, environmental crashes happen. One of my guys wrote off a troll bike years ago when a tree fell down into the roadway. He hit the tree as it hit the road. Nothing he could have done. He was already doing significantly less than the speed limit, due to heavy rain, in convoy with some other troll bikes. He only saw it at the last minute, it happened so fast. Stab Resistant Body Armour protected him from far worse injuries.

[swbarnett]

Well spotted. I thought you were referring to driver-caused crashes, which make up by far the vast majority of crashes.
To be honest I didn't put up the original post. And, yes, I may actually agree with you that given that the driver caused the crash and no environmental factors were at play the driver probably broke some law or other. At least failing to pay due care and attention.

[FJRider]

To be honest I didn't put up the original post. And, yes, I may actually agree with you that given that the driver caused the crash and no environmental factors were at play the driver probably broke some law or other. At least failing to pay due care and attention.

So ... if a driver crashes on a wet road (no other vehicle involved) ... is it (or not) the drivers fault ... or "Environmental" cause and NOT the drivers fault .. ???

[haydes55]

So ... if a driver crashes on a wet road (no other vehicle involved) ... is it (or not) the drivers fault ... or "Environmental" cause and NOT the drivers fault .. ???


The drivers fault.

[FJRider]

The drivers fault.

A driver recently crashed in the Kawerau gorge in pissing down rain. Said driver claimed it was not his fault as he was only doing 95 km/hr. (obviously speed was NOT a factor)

[haydes55]

A driver recently crashed in the Kawerau gorge in pissing down rain. Said driver claimed it was not his fault as he was only doing 95 km/hr. (obviously speed was NOT a factor)


Speed limits were a factor, if the road had no speed limits, the driver wouldn't have been going 95km/h. The driver would go a comfortable speed.

Too fast for the conditions, is too fast for the conditions, regardless of whether you are above or below the number in the circles on the sticks beside the road.

[FJRider]

Speed limits were a factor, if the road had no speed limits, the driver wouldn't have been going 95km/h. The driver would go a comfortable speed.

Too fast for the conditions, is too fast for the conditions, regardless of whether you are above or below the number in the circles on the sticks beside the road.

You obviously don't know this piece of road then ... :rolleyes:

[swbarnett]

You obviously don't know this piece of road then ... :rolleyes:
Please enlighten us northerners...

[rastuscat]

Speed limits were a factor, if the road had no speed limits, the driver wouldn't have been going 95km/h. .

Who is the numpty that says that because a sign says 100, you have to do 100? It's a maximum, not a mandatory.

[FJRider]

Please enlighten us northerners...

Street view gives you a good idea ..

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-45.0210809,169.0549482,3053m/data=!3m1!1e3

[haydes55]

Who is the numpty that says that because a sign says 100, you have to do 100? It's a maximum, not a mandatory.


Most people I know treat it as an exact speed to go, if you go slower than the posted limit everyone behind gets angry and tries to pass. Many roads are described like: "it's a 100km/h road", not "it's limited to 100km/h".

In my work van I stick to 100km/h, except for 45k corners or slower. Had all 4 tires squealing all the way through old taupo road yesterday and didn't break a single law. Yet I was probably at about 80% of the vans grip around most of the road

[rastuscat]

Most people I know treat it as an exact speed to go, if you go slower than the posted limit everyone behind gets angry and tries to pass. Many roads are described like: "it's a 100km/h road", not "it's limited to 100km/h".

In my work van I stick to 100km/h, except for 45k corners or slower. Had all 4 tires squealing all the way through old taupo road yesterday and didn't break a single law. Yet I was probably at about 80% of the vans grip around most of the road

Be careful. The laws of physics aren't as tolerant as the laws of the land.

[haydes55]

Be careful. The laws of physics aren't as tolerant as the laws of the land.


Good thing I only break laws of the land.

[swbarnett]

Street view gives you a good idea ..

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-45.0210809,169.0549482,3053m/data=!3m1!1e3
Yeah, it's a windy road. I looked at that previously but I still don't see what you're getting at.

[swbarnett]

In my work van I stick to 100km/h, except for 45k corners or slower. Had all 4 tires squealing all the way through old taupo road yesterday and didn't break a single law.
Even the one that says you must be able to stop in your visibility?

[Scuba_Steve]

Be careful. The laws of physics aren't as tolerant as the laws of the land.

Yea but they're also fairer, more consistent, & less corrupt. You always know where you stand with the laws of physics

[RDJ]

You always know where you stand with the laws of physics

This. Precisely.

[haydes55]

Even the one that says you must be able to stop in your visibility?


I've come around corners to find the road scattered with cows on several occasions and always stopped in time.

4 wheeled vehicles can stop in fuck all distance even around corners, you just need to watch the lift-off oversteer and not panic locking the inside rear wheel.

[ellipsis]

...ftp....

,,,

[Berries]

You obviously don't know this piece of road then ... :rolleyes:
To be fair, he can probably spell it correctly.


Who is the numpty that says that because a sign says 100, you have to do 100? It's a maximum, not a mandatory.
Another fuck up, they should have left the old white circle with black stripe through it. Means the same but then it did not have a target speed limit written on it so the implied message was different.

[Flip]

Be careful. The laws of physics aren't as tolerant as the laws of the land.

Its not a law its a regulation. It has no more status in law than having to pay for parking or not letting your dog crap on the footpath. The Rozza have become the new Parking wardens and dog catchers.

[rastuscat]

Yea but they're also fairer, more consistent, & less corrupt. You always know where you stand with the laws of physics

Just out of interest, how am I corrupt?

[rastuscat]

To be fair, he can probably spell it correctly.


Another fuck up, they should have left the old white circle with black stripe through it. Means the same but then it did not have a target speed limit written on it so the implied message was different.

I guess the problem was the expectation that everyone knew what that sign meant. Tourists didn't.

The big problem I see with the current signs is that they say 100. No mention of 90 when you're towing a trailer. Or driving a truck.

[Scuba_Steve]

Just out of interest, how am I corrupt?

You're part of NZ's biggest criminal gang (& terrorist organisation) aren't you? [NZ Police]
Transparency International rates Police more corrupt than the Govt in NZ

Never said you personally (don't know enough to make that claim), in-fact I claimed the "laws of the land" corrupt; but those who make & the gang paid to inforce said "laws of the land" definitely are.

[rastuscat]

You're part of NZ's biggest criminal gang (& terrorist organisation) aren't you? [NZ Police]
Transparency International rates Police more corrupt than the Govt in NZ

Never said you personally (don't know enough to make that claim), in-fact I claimed the "laws of the land" corrupt; but those who make & the gang paid to inforce said "laws of the land" definitely are.

Thanks for clarifying your lack of knowledge.

[scumdog]

You're part of NZ's biggest criminal gang (& terrorist organisation) aren't you? [NZ Police]
Transparency International rates Police more corrupt than the Govt in NZ

Never said you personally (don't know enough to make that claim), in-fact I claimed the "laws of the land" corrupt; but those who make & the gang paid to inforce said "laws of the land" definitely are.

Your failings in grammar, spelling and knowledge really shine there S.S.!:bleh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Your failings in grammar, spelling and knowledge really shine there S.S.!:bleh:

Yea, probably shouldn't have used the word "aren't" but meh! It's not like KB is the pinnacle of England literature

[scumdog]

You're part of NZ's biggest criminal gang (& terrorist organisation) aren't you? [NZ Police]


And YOU are paying me to be a part of it!:niceone:

True, I looked it up, all your taxes and GST go into my bank account, suhweeet!:devil2:

[FJRider]

... It's not like KB is the pinnacle of England literature

English literature actually ... and Hitcher might agree ... :yes:


But .... KB is a New Zealand site ... <_< Kiwi culture differs ... :doh:

[Scuba_Steve]

And YOU are paying me to be a part of it!:niceone:

True, I looked it up, all your taxes and GST go into my bank account, suhweeet!:devil2:

All my taxes? Thank fuck for that. I thought they might have been getting wasted by the Govt on stupid shit like the Govt

[speedpro]

English literature actually ... and Hitcher might agree ... :yes:



Did you miss the PT?

[FJRider]

Did you miss the PT?

The English language is a difficult language to learn.

Give it a try ... you won't be misunderstood so often ...