Navy unable to board fishing vessels

[rustyrobot]

Look, I know they probably do a great job with a lack of funding and support from the government, but it's a bit embarrassing that the navy is trying, and unable to, board those fishing boats. They have given the reason that it was due to the 'conditions' (looks pretty calm to me) and evasive maneuvers by the boats' captains. Blow me down - if evasive moves by those rusty old hunks stop them - they've got bugger all chance against a foreign force.

I see from the photo they brought in the entire New Zealand airforce to help too.

Am I being too harsh? I just thought - you know, 3 rusty fishing boats shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[skippa1]

Cant see why they should even try to board, just sink the cunts

[ellipsis]

Cant see why they should even try to board, just sink the cunts

...should really board their tub to bugger them and take down their colours before opening the sea cocks...YoHoHo matelots...

[unstuck]

...should really board their tub to bugger them and take down their colours before opening the sea cocks...YoHoHo matelots...

Sort of like a naval patch over.:shutup:

[ellipsis]

Sort of like a naval patch over.:shutup:


...or even navel lint...

[schrodingers cat]

Tragic story really.
Look I'm certain the thing is being mis-reported but if these theiving cunts are helping themselves in our territorial waters surely we have the right to do a bit more than ask the crooked fellas in the piss pot country they are currently claiming to be registered to if we can ask the nice captain Chappy to have a cup of tea with us.

[schrodingers cat]

Tragic story really.
Look I'm certain the thing is being mis-reported but if these theiving cunts are helping themselves in our territorial waters surely we have the right to do a bit more than ask the crooked fellas in the piss pot country they are currently claiming to be registered to if we can ask the nice captain Chappy to have a cup of tea with us.

Read this tho.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/64927953/pirate-fishing-boats-on-new-zealands-radar

Fuckers.

I bet if you just sunk the steaming old pieces of shit some lawyer would make you buy them new ones

[awa355]

Dont the navy have a ship with a helicopter on it? Shouldn't be too hard to lower a couple of Bruce Willis's onto the fishing boat. Hope this doesn't hit the world headlines, we'll be the laughing stock of the naval world.

[rustyrobot]

What I don't get is - if Greenpeace and SeaShepherd can manage to board Japanese boats (who are prepared to repel them) on a regular basis... why is it so hard for our Navy? It's not like they are going to get shot at, and they have the go-ahead to board. Surely there's more to the story?!

[skippa1]

. Surely there's more to the story?!
Yep.
work safe will prosecute their arses if they bruise one.


makes me laugh how you read a newspaper article and/or see some footage on tv and youre an expert on boarding a boat in the southern ocean:blink:

[caseye]

Do an RNZAF Op's, put a shot (rocket) over their bows! There is a Skyhawk out there with a maru ship under a cross painted on it's flank somewhere.
But hit them instead, damn lucky no one was killed, but the Japs stopped sending their ships down here illegally for quite sometime.
Seriously, ask permission????
Sink them and leave their crews to drown. Our (joke) territorial waters should only be for our use.
Not our fault every other fishing fleet owning country has fished their existing stocks completely out.
Hell if we did blow these schmucks out of the water and were prepared to do it again to any foreign fishing vessel in our waters, we'd be on a roll when it came to selling quota, only through our fleets and only to our closest allies, fuck the rest of em, let them starve.Or better, eat cake.

[Oakie]

What I don't get is - if Greenpeace and SeaShepherd can manage to board Japanese boats (who are prepared to repel them) on a regular basis... why is it so hard for our Navy? It's not like they are going to get shot at, and they have the go-ahead to board. Surely there's more to the story?!

Because if they do it illegally it is called 'piracy'. Greenpeace and SeaShepherd can do it as they are happy to work outside maritime law. The NZ Navy has to observe it (no matter how much they want to have a bit of live firing practice)

[Swoop]

What I don't get is - if Greenpeace and SeaShepherd can manage to board Japanese boats (who are prepared to repel them) on a regular basis... why is it so hard for our Navy?
Seriously? The answer is "osh".

Boarding parties, however, will be chomping at the bit to get over there, Remington and Sig in hand.

"Sea state too rough?".
Mr Browning's .50 cal says "nope!".

[skippa1]

Our (joke) territorial waters should only be for our use.

Dont think they are our territorial waters

The waters of the Southern Ocean, which were previously overfished, leading to the ban, are strictly regulated by the Commission for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources (CCAMLR).

[rustyrobot]

Seriously? The answer is "osh".

Boarding parties, however, will be chomping at the bit to get over there, Remington and Sig in hand.



Looks like you are right...


Asked how the two fishing boats, which appear rusty and in poor repair, managed to evade the offshore patrol boat, a defence spokesman said: "Ask MFAT [Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade]." A spokeswoman for MFAT said: "It was an operational decision made for safety reasons."

:facepalm:

They've probably been told they can't board until "Caution: Surface may be slippery" signs are put up on the fishing boats, and all hazardous areas are swathed in neon day-glo.

[Ocean1]

This isn't a procedural problem, the assets present are more than capable of boarding the fishing ships.

One key point: they're not in NZ waters, they're in international waters protected by agreed fishing restrictions. The boys in blue have to do it by someone else's book.

And it sounds like they're less than happy about how that book reads: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64927663/navy-unable-to-board-illegal-fishers-boats

Asked how the two fishing boats, which appear rusty and in poor repair, managed to evade the offshore patrol boat, a defence spokesman said: "Ask MFAT [Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade]."

[oldrider]

If our patrol boats are powerless to act - why even bother going down there! :confused:

They should be able to poke a few holes in the rust buckets at least enough to make them head home for repairs so that they can't continue to fish! :Pokey:

[Akzle]

just increase the size limits while decreasing bag limits...

[EJK]

Ramming speed!

[skippa1]

Whenred and green are seen in front, hammer down and ram the cunt

[Winston001]

Do our navy ships carry a squad of marines?

[Flip]

That pic of the two boats looks fake to me.

[Virago]

That pic of the two boats looks fake to me.

Lol. Without a doubt.

The TV1 news report tonight showed rather different weather conditions.

[Laava]

Is it time to put our foil hats on yet?

[oldrider]

Is it time to put our foil hats on yet?

:eek: You would do well to never remove it - your daily life is probably part of one conspiracy or another! ATGATT :ride: - Forewarned is forearmed! :whistle: .

[TheDemonLord]

Fire a warning shot across the Bow, preferably with something bigger than a pee shooter:



And tell them to stop and prepare to be boarded or the next one won't be going across the bow....

[5150]

More like 11 warning shots through the boat and then one across the front of the bow. Should fix the fuckers right. :laugh:

[Swoop]

Do our navy ships carry a squad of marines?
There is a boarding party on each vessel. Trained to do precisely that, under a variety of conditions (day/night, sea state, via helo/RIB, etc), all whilst being backed up with Mr Remington's finest hardware.

[rustyrobot]

Is it time to put our foil hats on yet?

Please don your hats now....

Fisheries are managed by Ministry for Primary Industries
Occupational Health is managed by Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment

Given that it is MFAT who are preventing the Navy from proceeding, and that Yongding and Songhua (the names of the boats) don't sound particularly like they are from Equitorial Guinea... perhaps Judith Collins is having to get clearance from her pals in China before proceeding?

[rustyrobot]

So you think owners of regenage fishing boats dont carry guns????.

Oh not at all, I am sure they have guns. I just don't think they'll use them against a legitimate naval force, although they might against ecological crusaders.

[Waihou Thumper]

In the video I saw they would stretch crew members between ships for not obeying orders.

That seems pointless! The cabin space and deck-heads are small anyway...Guess that means the crew sleep out on deck, but bloody handy when you need to reach that
painter on the davit arm aye...:)

[puddytat]

NZFist is waving their one with Ron Marks:ar15:

[Banditbandit]

Do our navy ships carry a squad of marines?

Godzone does not have marines ...

But the Navy has permission to board ... https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25990031/nz-can-board-illegal-fishing-boats/ (paragraph three) ...

The boats' captains are not being cooperative ... it's not like a land-based police chase - they can't box them in and force them to stop ..



"The HMNZS WELLINGTON attempted to exercise its legitimate right to board the Yongding and the Songhua earlier (on Wednesday), but the vessels refused to cooperate.

"Due to the conditions and the evasive tactics of the masters it was not possible to safely board these vessels."

OK .. so you are on the high seas, probably in rolling conditions and you are trying to get from one boat to the other and the other boat is not cooperating ... the reality could be that it is NOT POSSIBLE to board a boat running fast in a high sea and trying to evade you ... nothing to do with the law or the willingness of people - but the actual physics of the situation ... our navy can shadow the boats and get them at any time - it's not worth risking lives to get on the boats immediately.

[Waihou Thumper]

... our navy can shadow the boats and get them at any time - it's not worth risking lives to get on the boats immediately.

To a point, and at present they are playing a waiting game (the illegal fishing boats) until such time the RNZN needs to fuel the vessel and bugger off back to port...

[Banditbandit]

To a point, and at present they are playing a waiting game (the illegal fishing boats) until such time the RNZN needs to fuel the vessel and bugger off back to port...


The same applies to the fishing boats .. they will need to refuel sometime ..

[TheDemonLord]

The boats' captains are not being cooperative ... it's not like a land-based police chase - they can't box them in and force them to stop ..

OK .. so you are on the high seas, probably in rolling conditions and you are trying to get from one boat to the other and the other boat is not cooperating ... the reality could be that it is NOT POSSIBLE to board a boat running fast in a high sea and trying to evade you ... nothing to do with the law or the willingness of people - but the actual physics of the situation ... our navy can shadow the boats and get them at any time - it's not worth risking lives to get on the boats immediately.

I find that unlike a land based chase - a series of 25 mm Cannon shells whizzing over my head would be a great incentive to stop

Also - WTF are we doing with the biggest gun on a patrol boat being a 25 mm?

[Waihou Thumper]

I find that unlike a land based chase - a series of 25 mm Cannon shells whizzing over my head would be a great incentive to stop

Also - WTF are we doing with the biggest gun on a patrol boat being a 25 mm?

She also carries 2 .50 calibre machine guns
They'd put a nice ding in anyones side...

Browning Machine Gun, Cal. .50, M2, HB, Flexible.

[Banditbandit]

I find that unlike a land based chase - a series of 25 mm Cannon shells whizzing over my head would be a great incentive to stop

Also - WTF are we doing with the biggest gun on a patrol boat being a 25 mm?

You would find that an incentive ... maybe the captains of these boats would not find it an incentive at all ... maybe they face worse if they get back home without the boat and catch.

And, given what we know about what goes on onboard these types of boats (slave labour and abuses basically), it would be very unwise to shoot at the boats and kill helpless and captive workers ..

Why are some people here trying to second-guess what to do ... Let the authorities sort out this one ...

[Taxythingy]

I vote we buy a couple of submarines. Use them to torpedo the fuckers and invoke some plausible deniability.

Cheaper would be doing the Rainbow Warrior thing on the ships the next time they call into port. A couple of rounds of that and someone will work out that fishing the area isn't quite as economic as it once was.

[awayatc]

Cheap.....?
bit of line with a buoy either end could easily faul a prop...
R.I.B. very quick and manouvrable...
bummer if they would have to request a tow.....
hard to find cheaper solution....

[Waihou Thumper]

R.I.B. very quick and manouvrable...
bummer if they would have to request a tow.....
hard to find cheaper solution....

They got plenty of these...2 in fact. RHIB, and could even deck out with a landing craft (not useful in this case though)
BUT, they could use one of these...

Kaman SH-2G Super Seasprite

[Akzle]

Also - WTF are we doing with the biggest gun on a patrol boat being a 25 mm?
why, that's only slightly larger than my pig-gun (http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm)

... Let the authorities sort out this one ...

have you considered fucking right off?
if not, give it some thought...

who the fuck trusts "the authorities"... even on a good day.

[5150]

if i'm allowed, because JIAFP.

That's a big pee-shooter you have there...:crazy:

[mashman]

I vote we buy a couple of submarines. Use them to torpedo the fuckers and invoke some plausible deniability.

Cheaper would be doing the Rainbow Warrior thing on the ships the next time they call into port. A couple of rounds of that and someone will work out that fishing the area isn't quite as economic as it once was.

NZ needs rail guns.

[Gremlin]

More like 11 warning shots through the boat and then one across the front of the bow. Should fix the fuckers right. :laugh:
Every time I hear about warning shots... I can't help it

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/PNcDI_uBGUo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[rustyrobot]

NZ needs rail guns.

But if they run them as well as the rest of the rail system... well...

(No disrespect to the actual rail workers)

[TheDemonLord]

But if they run them as well as the rest of the rail system... well...

(No disrespect to the actual rail workers)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rustyrobot again.

If I was drinking at the time of reading, you would owe me a new monitor

[rustyrobot]

To a point, and at present they are playing a waiting game (the illegal fishing boats) until such time the RNZN needs to fuel the vessel and bugger off back to port...


"The navy ship chasing down illegal fishing boats in Antarctic waters is returning to Wellington because it is running low on fuel." (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/65086040/navy-ship-heads-back-to-nz)

Damn - we sure showed them! Murray McCully you are a douche.

"Foreign Minister Murray McCully has pledged to "throw the book" at the poachers and their masters. "

Oh wait, I get it... they went down there, threw the book (which possibly missed), then came back having reached the extent of their mandate from Masher McCully.

[skippa1]

Under international law though would a peaceful activity like fishing justify it. They could always fire tear gas canisters at them and only if they start shooting in response then sink them.
I dont appreciate your quoting me.

youre a weird cunt

[R650R]

Hell I was nearly going to start a thread about this myself....

This is the most embarrassing thing on world stage our nation has done since we bent over and gave the French their terrorists back after the rainbow warrior incident.
Look at McCully, even he seemed ashamed to announce it. We are the laughi9ng stock of the fucking world now, Somalia pirates be relocating to the pacific.

"we asked to board and they said no" WTF!!!!

We are going to get arseholded on the next season of southpark lol, sure they will make an episode of it.....

They already had permission from the ships owners, all they had to do was fire few shots or sink the fucker. The US coastguard apparently goes around sinking vessels in international waters that refuse to stop or provide documents.... all those yachts lost at sea and never found....
The Navy is fuckin lucky Helen is not in charge or the boats would be joining the skyhawks.... Jesus Christ were they running low on Vaseline or something....?????

[oldrider]

They could have taken Keith Locke out there and used his services - they would have got on board during that exchange no sweat! :yes:

Maybe even Tazered a few of them to demonstrate tazer power and safety to Keith while they were at it! :mellow: KL for PM - :sick: - :grouphug: Tuff love politics! :puke:

[jonbuoy]

Hell I was nearly going to start a thread about this myself....

This is the most embarrassing thing on world stage our nation has done since we bent over and gave the French their terrorists back after the rainbow warrior incident.
Look at McCully, even he seemed ashamed to announce it. We are the laughi9ng stock of the fucking world now, Somalia pirates be relocating to the pacific.

"we asked to board and they said no" WTF!!!!

We are going to get arseholded on the next season of southpark lol, sure they will make an episode of it.....

They already had permission from the ships owners, all they had to do was fire few shots or sink the fucker. The US coastguard apparently goes around sinking vessels in international waters that refuse to stop or provide documents.... all those yachts lost at sea and never found....
The Navy is fuckin lucky Helen is not in charge or the boats would be joining the skyhawks.... Jesus Christ were they running low on Vaseline or something....?????

What's the point in risking someone's life for a few fish. It's not easy getting onboard a boat that's helping you - let alone one that doesn't want you onboard. If someone went over the side they wouldn't last long in that water.

[unstuck]

Hell I was nearly going to start a thread about myself....



Yeah, I can see that happening.:shifty:

[Banditbandit]

Under international law though would a peaceful activity like fishing justify it. They could always fire tear gas canisters at them and only if they start shooting in response then sink them.

Of course it would. The laws of the capitalist countries are there to protect property, not lives ... fish are property ...

[Banditbandit]

who the fuck trusts "the authorities"... even on a good day.


So what ??? Are you going to go out there and sort it out yourself ???? Yeah right ...

[oldrider]

Of course it would. The laws of the capitalist countries are there to protect property, not lives ... fish are property ...

And thats different in communist/socialist/left-wing countries? - How would they have handled the situation differently? Seriously. :scratch:

[oldrider]

why, that's only slightly larger than my pig-gun (http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm)

Did anybody notice the price of the practice rounds for Akzle's "Pig Gun"? :"Training ammo $10 each FFS!!" and that's cheap!

Every night on the TV news etc - terrorists with no means of support fire off at random thousands of dollars worth of miscellaneous ammunition! (each)

There is no shortage of money for munitions for war - then follows TV coverage of impoverished medical teams trying to administer aid to the sick wounded or dying!

No money for that sort of activity eh! - Our money systems are being controlled used and abused by design and we just let it happen! :doh:

[Banditbandit]

And thats different in communist/socialist/left-wing countries? - How would they have handled the situation differently? Seriously. :scratch:

Are you asking the question theoretically or based on the countries we currently misrepresent as communist/socialist/left wing?

Fairly obviously, from an anarchist perspective, there is no such thing as private property so there would be no laws protecting the things that we currently apply that concept to.


The current crop of left wing dictatorships would have probably blown the boats out of the water ... which is what any of the posters here want .. how interesting ..

[rustyrobot]

Are you asking the question theoretically or based on the countries we currently misrepresent as communist/socialist/left wing?

Fairly obviously, from an anarchist perspective, there is no such thing as private property so there would be no laws protecting the things that we currently apply that concept to.


The current crop of left wing dictatorships would have probably blown the boats out of the water ... which is what any of the posters here want .. how interesting ..

I would say that another anarchist perspective might be that fish are not 'property', but a common asset which need to be protected, or at least conserved. A consensus could be made to protect the fishing stocks, and then direct action taken against those who act in an adverse manner.

I suspect that instead of blowing the boats out of the water, many of the dictatorial states would collectivise the boats and the fish, and then put the boats to work doing much the same job. The sailors, well - re-education or labour camps if lucky.

[oldrider]

Are you asking the question theoretically or based on the countries we currently misrepresent as communist/socialist/left wing?

Fairly obviously, from an anarchist perspective, there is no such thing as private property so there would be no laws protecting the things that we currently apply that concept to.


The current crop of left wing dictatorships would have probably blown the boats out of the water ... which is what any of the posters here want .. how interesting ..

Just wanted to know what your alternative was that's all - nothing tricky - just askin and you have told me. :niceone:

[Akzle]

Did anybody notice the price of the practice rounds for Akzle's "Pig Gun"? :"Training ammo $10 each FFS!!" and that's cheap!



$USD.
Can reload 50bmg for about 10. 20mm closer to 25 a shot.
Fuck practice ammo. Frangible HPs

[Banditbandit]

I would say that another anarchist perspective might be that fish are not 'property', but a common asset which need to be protected, or at least conserved. A consensus could be made to protect the fishing stocks, and then direct action taken against those who act in an adverse manner.

Yeah - I would go with that - a collective resource ..


I suspect that instead of blowing the boats out of the water, many of the dictatorial states would collectivise the boats and the fish, and then put the boats to work doing much the same job. The sailors, well - re-education or labour camps if lucky.

They are all into private enterprise now (apart from Cuba maybe) so they would seize the boats then sell them off to their mate's fishing companies ...

[oldrider]

Putin was working with Cuba when Obama rushed in to grab the initiative off the Russians!

[QUOTE Banditbandit]They are all into private enterprise now (apart from Cuba maybe) so they would seize the boats then sell them off to their mate's fishing companies ... [QUOTE Banditbandit]

Wont be long now and Cuba will be just like the rest of USA-Israel capitalistic lackeys and choked with debt! :yes:

[R650R]

Yeah, I'm getting a hardon about that happening.:shifty:

fixed that for you ;p

[R650R]

What's the point in risking someone's life for a few fish. It's not easy getting onboard a boat that's helping you - let alone one that doesn't want you onboard. If someone went over the side they wouldn't last long in that water.

Its our Mana at stake. This is what the navy bitches sign up for and train for. This is like a military version of the polices 'cultural sensitivity' in the kahui case..... oh the seas a bit rough, oh they don't want us to board yet, give them ten days shall we.....

[Waihou Thumper]

Its our Mana at stake. This is what the navy bitches sign up for and train for. This is like a military version of the polices 'cultural sensitivity' in the kahui case..... oh the seas a bit rough, oh they don't want us to board yet, give them ten days shall we.....

Have you served? No....Have you been to sea and served in the armed forces? No...
Keep your Bigotry to yourself!

[oldrider]

Have you served? No....Have you been to sea and served in the armed forces? No...
Keep your Bigotry to yourself!


Hardly bigotry - he is a taxpayer and therefore involved - he doesn't have to have served to have an opinion - our servicemen serve to protect his right to have one!

[Waihou Thumper]

Hardly bigotry - he is a taxpayer and therefore involved - he doesn't have to have served to have an opinion - our servicemen serve to protect his right to have one!

apart from the comment...

This is what the navy bitches sign up for and train for

[Smifffy]

Hardly bigotry - he is a taxpayer and therefore involved - he doesn't have to have served to have an opinion - our servicemen serve to protect his right to have one!

They may serve to protect his right to an opinion - one which he has just so eloquently expressed, and you have also defended. That doesn't mean they need to risk their life when the taxpayer's elected representatives decide there is another way to deal with it.

Nobody's freedom of speech or expression is at risk here.

The Wellington and her crew have done everything that was asked of them, and done it well.

Also, if they had been asked to board the FFVs at all costs, or to fire upon them, I have no doubt that they would have done so effectively, and without hesitation.

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

[oldrider]

They may serve to protect his right to an opinion - one which he has just so eloquently expressed, and you have also defended. That doesn't mean they need to risk their life when the taxpayer's elected representatives decide there is another way to deal with it.

Nobody's freedom of speech or expression is at risk here.

The Wellington and her crew have done everything that was asked of them, and done it well.

Also, if they had been asked to board the FFVs at all costs, or to fire upon them, I have no doubt that they would have done so effectively, and without hesitation.

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

I defended his "right" to have an opinion - not necessarily his "stated" opinion - I hope you understand that!

More interesting how are the government going to react to that vigilante group spooling around down there playing policeman of the sea?

They are a frigging embarrassment we don't need right now IMHO!

[The Reibz]

Ah yes, yet another forum of armchair critics and experts on boarding party operations and International Maritime Law. You all must have thousands of sea days.

Respect to HMNZS Wellington and her crew for patrolling over xmas and new years while the rest of us were pissing it up.

[unstuck]

while the rest of us were pissing it up.

Speak for yourself, coont.:2thumbsup

[ellipsis]

Respect to HMNZS Wellington and her crew for patrolling over xmas and new years while the rest of us were pissing it up.


...yeah, talk for yourself...

[rustyrobot]

Ah yes, yet another forum of armchair critics

Welcome to The Internet.



To be clear my issue is with the politicians.

[Akzle]

Respect to HMNZS Wellington and her crew for patrolling over xmas and new years while the rest of us were pissing it up.

you say that as though THEY werent....

[The Reibz]

Navy is dry now Akzle. At sea anyway.
Bring back the Tot

[Akzle]

Navy is dry now Akzle. At sea anyway.
Bring back the Tot

pussies.
Id love to be dic a fuken destroyer. Err. Frigate. Uhh, cruiser?...rib? Runabout?
Fuck it. A raft, at least.

[Winston001]

The frigate Wellington. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If the Wellington's sailors try to board one of these ships and one or more of them die in the attempt - what can any of us say of comfort to their families? Johnny died trying to check out some fish? That is a hard message to tell.

Or maybe the Wellington fires on the ship - chinese or spanish crew die and/or at have to be rescued from the freezing ocean. That would look good to the rest of the world.

The real bad guys (the owners) are thousands of miles away and at no risk. Do we really want to kill people who earn sod all and barely know why they are there?

[awayatc]

We'd be doing them a favour really if you put it like that.....

was it the owners who prevented boarding..?

or the captain....?

[skippa1]

Look, I know they probably do a great job with a lack of funding and support from the government, but it's a bit embarrassing that the navy is trying, and unable to, board those fishing boats. They have given the reason that it was due to the 'conditions' (looks pretty calm to me) and evasive maneuvers by the boats' captains. Blow me down - if evasive moves by those rusty old hunks stop them - they've got bugger all chance against a foreign force.

I see from the photo they brought in the entire New Zealand airforce to help too.

Am I being too harsh? I just thought - you know, 3 rusty fishing boats shouldn't be too much of a problem.


What I don't get is - if Greenpeace and SeaShepherd can manage to board Japanese boats (who are prepared to repel them) on a regular basis... why is it so hard for our Navy? It's not like they are going to get shot at, and they have the go-ahead to board. Surely there's more to the story?!


Welcome to The Internet.



To be clear my issue is with the politicians.
yeah right

[TheDemonLord]

Or maybe the Wellington fires on the ship - chinese or spanish crew die and/or at have to be rescued from the freezing ocean. That would look good to the rest of the world.

It would - If you come to NZ to fish illegally you can expect to be Boarded, using force if you don't comply.

[skippa1]

It would - If you come to NZ to fish illegally you can expect to be Boarded, using force if you don't comply.
Yep....spot on

[R650R]

apart from the comment...

This is what the navy bitches sign up for and train for

All armed forces are cannon fodder and they sign their lives away to the govt to this effect. Perhaps bitches was a bit sexist and didn't acknowledge the male members.
But can you imagine the airforce saying ohhhh we cant intercept that incoming terrorist plane, a thunderstorm is forecast.
Or the army saying its too frosty to raid that terrorist compound.

oh well guess they wont be any new boats for awhile after this embarrassment, well they cant recruit enough sailors as it is anyway.

No haven't served but did Cadet forces for six years so know what it would be like, cant see it being any different to a tough life doing long hours in the private sector...
Now active COMBAT service UNDER FIRE from real enemy soldiers/terrorists, know people who've been there and done that and that is something special worth acknowledging....

[Swoop]

The frigate Wellington.
HMNZS Wellington is not a frigate.

She is an OSPV.
Off Shore Patrol Vessel. (P55)

You might be confusing her with F-69.

[The Reibz]

No haven't served but did Cadet forces for six years so know what it would be like
Quote of the year right there. My deepest condolences for the hard yards you did in the cadets.

Why are you still breathing?

[R650R]

Quote of the year right there. My deepest condolences for the hard yards you did in the cadets.

Why are you still breathing?

Never said it was hard yards, just saying I've experienced the environment and could picture myself passing the required training etc back in the day if I'd gone down that path. Incidently cadet forces do go to Dipflat and do the same extreme winter bushcraft camp that army intake does except for a lesser time period. I got put through a full regular army PT training session at Linton on our SNCO course, was tough but I've since pushed myself harder in civilian endurance sports events. It got canned after two days as the instructor got done for bullying two female (school age) cadets on the course, guess that's being tough...

Have seen various ex army drivers come though transport companies and at a few service agents. One 'driver' couldn't even operate a forklift properly and load a b-train with plts of toilet tissue without tipping stuff over, and this is on dead flat concrete, not some cobbled together landing strip/base. The long hours were prob too much as he managed to dent diesel tank parking tractor unit in shed at end of shift....
My point is too often military service is bandied about as some badge of ultimate toughness when the most that many have done is camped out cold and wet for six weeks and gotten yelled at by drill instructor, very few have done the full monty active combat service getting shot at crap.

There are loads of people living in civilian life doing long hours in poor conditions, working alongside gang members etc where as most military employees are living a very safe structured life with three meals cooked every day for them etc...

[Delerium]

All armed forces are cannon fodder and they sign their lives away to the govt to this effect. Perhaps bitches was a bit sexist and didn't acknowledge the male members.
But can you imagine the airforce saying ohhhh we cant intercept that incoming terrorist plane, a thunderstorm is forecast.
Or the army saying its too frosty to raid that terrorist compound.

oh well guess they wont be any new boats for awhile after this embarrassment, well they cant recruit enough sailors as it is anyway.

No haven't served but did Cadet forces for six years so know what it would be like, cant see it being any different to a tough life doing long hours in the private sector...
Now active COMBAT service UNDER FIRE from real enemy soldiers/terrorists, know people who've been there and done that and that is something special worth acknowledging....

Exactly. You haven't served. So now you are dribbling a lot of shit, pretending you are an internet expert on the subject. Reality is you don't know fuck all on the subject. Your post also shows you don't have a complete understanding of the situation.

YOU haven't experienced jack shit. cadet forces is a far cry from serving.

Stop spouting so much crap.

[Delerium]

Never said it was hard yards, just saying I've experienced the environment and could picture myself passing the required training etc back in the day if I'd gone down that path. Incidently cadet forces do go to Dipflat and do the same extreme winter bushcraft camp that army intake does except for a lesser time period. I got put through a full regular army PT training session at Linton on our SNCO course, was tough but I've since pushed myself harder in civilian endurance sports events. It got canned after two days as the instructor got done for bullying two female (school age) cadets on the course, guess that's being tough...

Have seen various ex army drivers come though transport companies and at a few service agents. One 'driver' couldn't even operate a forklift properly and load a b-train with plts of toilet tissue without tipping stuff over, and this is on dead flat concrete, not some cobbled together landing strip/base. The long hours were prob too much as he managed to dent diesel tank parking tractor unit in shed at end of shift....
My point is too often military service is bandied about as some badge of ultimate toughness when the most that many have done is camped out cold and wet for six weeks and gotten yelled at by drill instructor, very few have done the full monty active combat service getting shot at crap.

There are loads of people living in civilian life doing long hours in poor conditions, working alongside gang members etc where as most military employees are living a very safe structured life with three meals cooked every day for them etc...

could picture myself passing the required training etc :
But you haven't. your attitude suggests you wouldn't even get in.

Incidently cadet forces do go to Dipflat and do the same extreme winter bushcraft camp that army intake does except for a lesser time period
More bullshit. Dip Flat is an RNZAF asset for a start. And your deluded if you think cadet forces does anything in the same ballpark as NZDF.

I got put through a full regular army PT training session at Linton on our SNCO course, was tough but I've since pushed myself harder in civilian endurance sports events
Well whopdeedoo You did ONE PT session. Something that is designed to increase fitness, not get you wasted. Iv played sports for PT sessions too. Does that mean you're a bigger e-thug hard man?

Have seen various ex army drivers come though ...
cool story bro.

My point is too often military service is bandied about as some badge of ultimate toughness when the most that many have done is camped out cold and wet for six weeks and gotten yelled at by drill instructor, very few have done the full monty active combat service getting shot at crap.


You wouldn't know. YOU haven't served. YOU don't know what is involved in the job.

There are loads of people living in civilian life doing long hours in poor conditions, working alongside gang members etc where as most military employees are living a very safe structured life with three meals cooked every day for them etc

Does this come from your wealth of experience on long exercises, deployments, and dealing with other situations in the course of your duties?

TLDR version: you went to cadets in highschool, couldn't make it into NZDF, and are now an expert.

I just called you out for being an armchair expert.

[TheDemonLord]

this thread just got interesting - I am eager to see how this turns out.

FWIW - I think that the cadets is akin to the forces (so Mr. R650R has a point) but cannot be considered the same, or the same level - kinda like how gokart racing is racing, and F1 is racing, so are akin to each other but are not the same by any stretch of the imagination. (which is the point Mr Reibz and Mr delerium are making)

[unstuck]

The navy are such pussies, spent many a night in the espalnade? pub in Devonport letting them tire themselves out by punching me in the head.
Such a shame that boxing is a points game though, otherwise I would have won on stubborness.:girlfight:

[oldrider]

Oh goody a keyboard pissing contest - next one might be - How would you know if you have never had a baby? :scratch: (Oops, nah not good) :facepalm: . :oi-grr: :sick::spanking:

[huff3r]

There were quite a few cadets and ex lsv people on my Basic. Not many passed, and all of them were shocked at what an Army basic is truly like. Most civilians would be amazed at what recruits are put through.

As everyone has said, if you haven't done it then you truly have no idea.

[R650R]

Oh goody a keyboard pissing contest - next one might be - How would you know if you have never had a baby? :scratch: (Oops, nah not good) :facepalm: . :oi-grr: :sick::spanking:

Yes indeed. The original point was the Navy, their management and personel are assigned a task and must be able to execute under all conditions. The supplied info about the incident does not read well.
The Americans would have just sunk this boat for non compliuance with orders.
But anyway to degenerate the thread into people aren't qualified to judge is just a silly pissing contest. There are ample credible books out there describing military life and real life operations to say that the navy has not performed as required.
McCullys face said it all, surely if there were genuine reasons for a no go that would have been explained to him and he would have relayed that to the press in a relaxed manner.
Lets see if our Kiwibiker vet's are tough enough to hold fire, bite their tongues and let this thread get back to what it was about...

[unstuck]

My son found the navy fairly easy compared to being at home he said.:scratch:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/InBXu-iY7cw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:banana::banana:

[Akzle]

everyone in the navy is a hommosexual.

[puddytat]

and some of them are women too.......

[oldrider]

and some of them are women too.......

I still haven't had a baby but if some of the messages that I have received come to pass it will not be long before it all begins! :eek: - :buggerd: - :moon: - ouch!

[Smifffy]

Yes indeed. The original point was the Navy, their management and personel are assigned a task and must be able to execute under all conditions. The supplied info about the incident does not read well.
The Americans would have just sunk this boat for non compliuance with orders.
But anyway to degenerate the thread into people aren't qualified to judge is just a silly pissing contest. There are ample credible books out there describing military life and real life operations to say that the navy has not performed as required.
McCullys face said it all, surely if there were genuine reasons for a no go that would have been explained to him and he would have relayed that to the press in a relaxed manner.
Lets see if our Kiwibiker vet's are tough enough to hold fire, bite their tongues and let this thread get back to what it was about...

Their task was assigned to them by MFAT, and MFAT called them off. Their orders were to back off and refuel, and they followed those orders. Now you say the American model is a foreign policy method to aspire to?

[R650R]

Their task was assigned to them by MFAT, and MFAT called them off. Their orders were to back off and refuel, and they followed those orders. Now you say the American model is a foreign policy method to aspire to?

That's a nice cover story they have come up with since the initial reports. What kind of operator goes out with a full tank of gas in the first place?????
No not their foreign policy just their shoot first and ask questions later operational practices when it comes to dealing with pirates/terrorists/fugitives etc....

[Delerium]

That's a nice cover story they have come up with since the initial reports. What kind of operator goes out with a full tank of gas in the first place?????
No not their foreign policy just their shoot first and ask questions later operational practices when it comes to dealing with pirates/terrorists/fugitives etc....

It's what happened. There is quite a bit more to the situation that hasn't been reported in the press - something that is quite common when it comes to the military - The press either doesn't report all the facts (doesn't want to) or doesn't have all the facts. I suspect the same thing happens with police/fire etc.

[Delerium]

That's a nice cover story they have come up with since the initial reports. What kind of operator goes out with a full tank of gas in the first place?????
No not their foreign policy just their shoot first and ask questions later operational practices when it comes to dealing with pirates/terrorists/fugitives etc....

The Vessel was not assigned specifically to go after these three fishers. It had already been under way for quite some time. Not a case of not going out with ' a full tank'.

The vessel has returned to wellington to refuel, not to Devonport to just give up. Of course if you don't mind the navy pissing away your tax payers money we could send the fleet oiler out to carry out replenishment at sea, but then everybody will be bitching and moaning about how much is being spent.

Always more to a story than is reported.

[oldrider]

If our land police force don't carry guns why do we expect our fish police to have them? - Send Wellington back out fitted with a giant TAZER! :mellow:

[skippa1]

That's a nice cover story they have come up with since the initial reports. What kind of operator goes out with a full tank of gas in the first place?????..
Jump to many conclusions lately???? :facepalm:

[The Reibz]

R650R, Please go kill yourself.

That is all

[Akzle]

just their shoot first and ask questions later operational practices when it comes to dealing with pirates/terrorists/fugitives etc....

/refuges/hospitals/kindergartens/shopping malls/residential streets....

[JATZ]

The navy are such pussies, spent many a night in the espalnade? pub in Devonport letting them tire themselves out by punching me in the head.
Such a shame that boxing is a points game though, otherwise I would have won on stubborness.:girlfight:

Splades bar.... :headbang:

[awa355]

Todays cartoon in the Herald.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11388265

[Swoop]

The video footage shown on tonight's news was interesting. It showed the RIB up close with the fishing vessel and the sea was really quite pleasant. A small swell running but nothing to trouble anyone.

Reibz: Does Wellytown have RaS capability?

[The Reibz]

Reibz: Does Wellytown have RaS capability?
As far as I know, no. No OPV experience though, could be wrong.
Only ever seen our frigates ras with the big e.
Did a double Ras with a US Destroyer. Think it was in the south china sea. Destroyer makes Ezy look little as.

Gangsta Photo
308107

[Swoop]

As far as I know, no. No OPV experience though, could be wrong.
Only ever seen our frigates ras with the big e.
Did a double Ras with the Destroyer USS Kidd. Think it was in the south china sea. Destroyer makes Ezy look little as.
I'm suspecting as much too.
Just went through my photos of Otago and Wellytown and can't spot any RaS gear. The Blue Funnel Line website also fails to mention any capability either. Good legs on them though. 11k kilometre/6k N Mile range.

[The Reibz]

I remember going to the Solomon Sea on Resolution for 3 months and when we got home she barely used half a tank. Miss that ship hard.
If you look at it from a operational perspective, a tanker will always be deployed to support a frigate. That way it can go where ever it needs to go, and sit there as long as the tanker can. Patrol craft just don't need to do that. Also if the vessel being boarded doesn't want to be boarded we can't. No ladder visable on any of those shots tonight and we aint trained enough to grapple hook our way on board like batman or some shit lol

R650R has thousands of seadays and hundreds of boardings, earned through years of pain and suffering in the NZ Cadet Corps. I'll just shutup now...

[R650R]

I remember going to the Solomon Sea on Resolution for 3 months and when we got home she barely used half a tank. Miss that ship hard.
If you look at it from a operational perspective, a tanker will always be deployed to support a frigate. That way it can go where ever it needs to go, and sit there as long as the tanker can. Patrol craft just don't need to do that. Also if the vessel being boarded doesn't want to be boarded we can't. No ladder visable on any of those shots tonight and we aint trained enough to grapple hook our way on board like batman or some shit lol

R650R has thousands of seadays and hundreds of boardings, earned through years of pain and suffering in the NZ Cadet Corps. I'll just shutup now...

No seadays although I've deployed up to 2km offshore Kayak fishing ;p

My official rank on Battlefield 3 is Chief Warrant officer class 3. Logged 156hrs31mins with 3.8% accuracy which is not bad for playing with desktop mouse. Scored 2031 kills and died 8563 times in the line of duty :) Fuckin Respec aye!
I hope you didn't choke on your coffee laughing at that.

Just remember your fighting to protect our rights as citizens to free speech even if you don't like what we say :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1toRYJC3_Es

[TheDemonLord]

My official rank on Battlefield 3 is Chief Warrant officer class 3. Logged 156hrs31mins with 3.8% accuracy which is not bad for playing with desktop mouse. Scored 2031 kills and died 8563 times in the line of duty :) Fuckin Respec aye!


Lol

Noob

http://bf3stats.com/stats_pc/TheDemonLord666

[R650R]

Lol

Noob

http://bf3stats.com/stats_pc/TheDemonLord666

Respec... even if you prob in cheat mode with an aimbot... or maybe you just are good :)

I have a shitty net connection and usually get shot before my shot gets through the interweb. When I am on a good killing streak I get kicked off for high ping 300ms etc by the crybaby german and American servers mostly... even though at my end the gameplay seems alright...

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/NZRRRNZ2/stats/911125888/pc/

[TheDemonLord]

Respec... even if you prob in cheat mode with an aimbot... or maybe you just are good :)

I have a shitty net connection and usually get shot before my shot gets through the interweb. When I am on a good killing streak I get kicked off for high ping 300ms etc by the crybaby german and American servers mostly... even though at my end the gameplay seems alright...

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/NZRRRNZ2/stats/911125888/pc/

Nope, no aimbots here - I play competitively - the scary part is that there are people I play against and with who legitimately make me look like a noob.

[Katman]

Nope, no aimbots here - I play competitively - the scary part is that there are people I play against and with who legitimately make me look like a noob.

Wow, a breed of supergeeks.

Frightening.

[R650R]

Wow, a breed of supergeeks.

Frightening.

How dare you insult us Battlefield veterans you meagre message board poster. You don't know what its like if you haven't been "Back to Karkland" or the slaughterhouse of the Noshar Canals ;)

BTW for the record I'm playing on a business machine with a shitty Dell corded mouse and keyboard controls and no mouse pad except for a coffee stained A3 deskpad....

http://d1vr6n66ssr06c.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/00133.jpg

[Madness]

:facepalm:

[Akzle]

Wow, a breed of supergeeks.

Frightening.

dunno dude... they are being bred/trained for "next gen warfare"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

and drone strikes and shit....
"it's just like playstation!"

[R650R]

dunno dude... they are being bred/trained for "next gen warfare"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

and drone strikes and shit....
"it's just like playstation!"

Yep and the terminator style robots are getting developed very fast, truly is the age of rise of the machines.
The average grunt level soldier/crewman/sailor will be a thing of the past in years to come and we'll prob have more war because of it. Currently the biggest thing promoting peace is not mutually assured destruction but the political fallout of the bodybag count...

[jonbuoy]

Yep and the terminator style robots are getting developed very fast, truly is the age of rise of the machines.
The average grunt level soldier/crewman/sailor will be a thing of the past in years to come and we'll prob have more war because of it. Currently the biggest thing promoting peace is not mutually assured destruction but the political fallout of the bodybag count...

If it's just robots killing robots maybe they could just do it in a simulator and leave us alone to crack on with our lives.

[Akzle]

If it's just robots killing robots maybe they could just do it in a simulator and leave us alone to crack on with our lives.

i never quite comprehended why it couldnt be settled with a paintball match...

[Big Dog]

i never quite comprehended why it couldnt be settled with a paintball match...

It could, but some dick would bring paint grenades and full auto guns to a single round pump action match. This would escalate over time until nukes were back in play.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Akzle]

It could, but some dick would bring paint grenades and full auto guns to a single round pump action match. This would escalate over time until nukes were back in play.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

the ref could card 'em.

Dont fuck with paintball refs.

[TheDemonLord]

Wow, a breed of supergeeks.

Frightening.

Just cause your KDR is lower than 1.....

[oldrider]

dunno dude... they are being bred/trained for "next gen warfare"



and drone strikes and shit....
"it's just like playstation!"

Wow - I was anticipating a paintball gun (with enthusiasm) but you gave us - THAT! :eek:

[Smifffy]

Which all goes to show (yet again) how well qualified y'all are to besmirch the courage and commitment of some of the bravest and most highly skilled armed forces anywhere in the world.

[rustyrobot]

Which all goes to show (yet again) how well qualified y'all are to besmirch the courage and commitment of some of the bravest and most highly skilled armed forces anywhere in the world.

Just out of interest - which are the least brave and less skilled armed forces?

[oldrider]

Just out of interest - which are the least brave and less skilled armed forces?

Google won't respond to the least brave and skilled request but here are the best ten: http://www.wonderslist.com/10-best-special-forces-world/

New Zealand doesn't make it - so have we got anything to offer? - Stupid bloody Google bastards!

[Big Dog]

Google won't respond to the least brave and skilled request but here are the best ten: http://www.wonderslist.com/10-best-special-forces-world/

New Zealand doesn't make it - so have we got anything to offer? - Stupid bloody Google bastards!

NZSAS are just so covert the authors have never heard of them.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[TheDemonLord]

Google won't respond to the least brave and skilled request but here are the best ten: http://www.wonderslist.com/10-best-special-forces-world/

New Zealand doesn't make it - so have we got anything to offer? - Stupid bloody Google bastards!

I have heard from multiple different sources that the NZSAS and the ASAS are thought of in the highest regard by other special forces of a similar calibre.

I should point out - I frequently deride the NZ armed forces, not for the men and women who are on the hypothetical front line, but more the political and beuarocratic blunders that I see - for an island nation, we don't have a Marine force, we don't have full amphibious assault capability and we don't have a fleet air arm.....

[ellipsis]

for an island nation, we don't have a Marine force, we don't have full amphibious assault capability and we don't have a fleet air arm.....

...and we dont have any money...

[angle]

I have heard from multiple different sources that the NZSAS and the ASAS are thought of in the highest regard by other special forces of a similar calibre.
It's SASR not ASAS. Secondly for an SF unit to be effective you need to have and utilise a lot of other capabilities such as intel networks (electronic as well as human), communication networks (including own secure satellites), transportation (sea, air and land), logistical support, combat support (air support including CAS, armour support, indirect and stand off fire support, precesion fire support) etc. The list is very long, the actual SF is only one small piece of a special operation.


I should point out - I frequently deride the NZ armed forces, not for the men and women who are on the hypothetical front line, but more the political and beuarocratic blunders that I see - for an island nation, we don't have a Marine force, we don't have full amphibious assault capability and we don't have a fleet air arm..... Are you willing to pay for a full amphibious assault capability? Very few nations can afford that. There is a Fleet Air Arm (well sort of) aka the 6th Squadron. I do agree with you wrt "political and beuarocratic blunders" though.

[Akzle]

Are you willing to pay for a full amphibious assault capability?

our hovercraftis full of eels.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you willing to pay for a full amphibious assault capability? Very few nations can afford that. There is a Fleet Air Arm (well sort of) aka the 6th Squadron. I do agree with you wrt "political and beuarocratic blunders" though.

Well, it depends - are you trying to have a full blue water navy with Amphibious assault options? in which case - yes, that is very expensive - but I think in NZ our need for a full blue water navy (if our armed services are just a defence force) isn't large - we should (as an island nation) have a focus on protecting the coast, territorial waters and inland waters

[Akzle]

we should (as an island nation) have a focus on protecting the coast, territorial waters and inland waters

why?
If jew key gets his way theyll be sold and ergo, not our problem.

[R650R]

I have heard from multiple different sources that the NZSAS and the ASAS are thought of in the highest regard by other special forces of a similar calibre.

I should point out - I frequently deride the NZ armed forces, not for the men and women who are on the hypothetical front line, but more the political and beuarocratic blunders that I see - for an island nation, we don't have a Marine force, we don't have full amphibious assault capability and we don't have a fleet air arm.....

Usually always from a NZ source, just like how our media and the govt like us to think we're some special breed innovative nation of conquerers and inventors who can make anything out of number eight wire...
But then you go overseas and we're not even on the radar of most nations, there are lots more clever people and inventors around the world.

We don't need a marine force, we don't need sweet FA of anything really. Just who is a threat to NZ? Who is big enough to actually arrive here in sizeable numbers??? Have a look and the possible list of contenders are so much bigger than us that we'd get cleaned up no matter what fight we put up.

The biggest actual real threat is of the CIA setting up/sponsoring a fake terror group here like the Te Urewera four etc and conducting false flag attacks to justify Team America into moving in here to 'save' us from the rebels and set up permanent bases. Lets hope we never discover massive oil or mineral reserves in NZ. Otherwise we'll be the next afganistan or Iraq etc....

[Kickaha]

The biggest actual real threat is of the CIA setting up/sponsoring a fake terror group here like the Te Urewera four etc and conducting false flag attacks to justify Team America into moving in here to 'save' us from the rebels and set up permanent bases.

Have you been reading too much "Smith's Dream" ?

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idutds4WoXg#t=18

[unstuck]

Carnage vid

Hunting Aotearoa is just about to start, I wish Matua had one of them things.:devil2:

[husaberg]

Hunting Aotearoa is just about to start, I wish Matua had one of them things.:devil2:

Easier and a bit more fun than boarding rusting hulks in a leaking Aussie frigate.......We already have the C130's.
We could use just about anything......including the Orions
look what the yanks did AC47 or DC3 with a few miniguns and a Fighter gunsight.
Not a single US installation was lost to the enemy in the Vietnam war when a AC47 was deployed overhead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKOrpyO0z48

[Delerium]

Usually always from a NZ source, just like how our media and the govt like us to think we're some special breed innovative nation of conquerers and inventors who can make anything out of number eight wire...
But then you go overseas and we're not even on the radar of most nations, there are lots more clever people and inventors around the world.

We don't need a marine force, we don't need sweet FA of anything really. Just who is a threat to NZ? Who is big enough to actually arrive here in sizeable numbers??? Have a look and the possible list of contenders are so much bigger than us that we'd get cleaned up no matter what fight we put up.

The biggest actual real threat is of the CIA setting up/sponsoring a fake terror group here like the Te Urewera four etc and conducting false flag attacks to justify Team America into moving in here to 'save' us from the rebels and set up permanent bases. Lets hope we never discover massive oil or mineral reserves in NZ. Otherwise we'll be the next afganistan or Iraq etc....

Oh FFS. don't make me school you on the realities of the military again.

[Flip]

A few years ago the navy got in a spot of trouble when they shot a bridge off a fishing boad doing a runner, but this was in NZ waters.

[angle]

Well, it depends - are you trying to have a full blue water navy with Amphibious assault options? in which case - yes, that is very expensive - but I think in NZ our need for a full blue water navy (if our armed services are just a defence force) isn't large - we should (as an island nation) have a focus on protecting the coast, territorial waters and inland waters

Protecting from what threats? Please expand, what does the navy need and why?

A few years ago the navy got in a spot of trouble when they shot a bridge off a fishing boad doing a runner, but this was in NZ waters.
Are you sure that it wasn't a botched up gunnery exercise?

[TheDemonLord]

Protecting from what threats? Please expand, what does the navy need and why?

Coastal defence from Smugglers, poachers, illegal fishing
Protection of commercial shipping interests that are in NZ territorial waters
Disaster relief in the event of a major coastal disaster (such as a Tsunami or similar)
Projection of force to any part of NZ in the case of major civil unrest and or disaster.
Intervention in the event of an armed conflict or civil war amongst our Pacific neighbours

And finally - in the event of an armed conflict on NZ soil (granted it is unlikely) then I see the NZ navy with amphibious capability as a harrassment/vanguard force, forcing any invading enemy to constantly stop to defend their supply lines/logistics from amphibious assault (due to the large concentration of major cities by the coast/major waterways)

[Big Dog]

Seriously though, why invade New Zealand? It would cost far less to buy New Zealand than to mount a campaign of any serious nature. Unless the Aussies decide they want to raid the half they don't already own.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously though, why invade New Zealand? It would cost far less to buy New Zealand than to mount a campaign of any serious nature. Unless the Aussies decide they want to raid the half they don't already own.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Hobbit fetish?
Tolkein complex?

[angle]

Coastal defence from Smugglers, poachers, illegal fishing
Protection of commercial shipping interests that are in NZ territorial waters
Disaster relief in the event of a major coastal disaster (such as a Tsunami or similar)
Projection of force to any part of NZ in the case of major civil unrest and or disaster.
Intervention in the event of an armed conflict or civil war amongst our Pacific neighbours
The navy already has those capabilities.


And finally - in the event of an armed conflict on NZ soil (granted it is unlikely) then I see the NZ navy with amphibious capability as a harrassment/vanguard force, forcing any invading enemy to constantly stop to defend their supply lines/logistics from amphibious assault (due to the large concentration of major cities by the coast/major waterways)
Who is the invading enemy? What is this enemy using? How many of them are there? How is amphibious capability going to contribute to the harassment of the enemy?

[TheDemonLord]

The navy already has those capabilities.

That is debatable, since the whole issue of this discussion was how they weren't able to prosecute those capabilities


Who is the invading enemy? What is this enemy using? How many of them are there? How is amphibious capability going to contribute to the harassment of the enemy?

We are a country of lots and lots of coastline and waterways - just like the vietcong were able to hide in the large water networks and use it as one of the supply methods during the Vietnam war. Also like how the Columbian Drug cartels use the Amazon basin to hide from authorities and launch smuggling attempts from the large network of lakes and rivers.

if such low tech adversaries can outmaneuver and hide from the US (which arguably has the most powerful Navy on the planet) then I think it is safe to say that using the same amphibious hit-and-run methods first developed by the Vikings and shown to be effective in modern combat, we could mount a successful resistance, appearing suddenly for a raid against key logistics or infrastructure via either the coast or river systems, then retreating just as quickly to hide in amongst all the other river/island/bay areas.

[Banditbandit]

Intervention in the event of an armed conflict or civil war amongst our Pacific neighbours


Yeah ?? Go down to south dorkland and stand between a Tongan and a Samoan about to try to kill each other ... intervention won't seem like such a good idea then ..

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah ?? Go down to south dorkland and stand between a Tongan and a Samoan about to try to kill each other ... intervention won't seem like such a good idea then ..

it does if they have sticks and you have assault rifles :laugh::laugh:

[Winston001]

our hovercraftis full of eels.

Gotta bling this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao

[angle]

That is debatable, since the whole issue of this discussion was how they weren't able to prosecute those capabilities
How were they not capable? The CO made the decision not to, because they already had all the evidence they needed.


We are a country of lots and lots of coastline and waterways - just like the vietcong were able to hide in the large water networks and use it as one of the supply methods during the Vietnam war. Also like how the Columbian Drug cartels use the Amazon basin to hide from authorities and launch smuggling attempts from the large network of lakes and rivers.

if such low tech adversaries can outmaneuver and hide from the US (which arguably has the most powerful Navy on the planet) then I think it is safe to say that using the same amphibious hit-and-run methods first developed by the Vikings and shown to be effective in modern combat, we could mount a successful resistance, appearing suddenly for a raid against key logistics or infrastructure via either the coast or river systems, then retreating just as quickly to hide in amongst all the other river/island/bay areas.
That made me smile, I think I'll share this extract with a few people:) Viet Cong was not technically inferior to US, in some aspects it was superior and the reasons for US defeat have nothing to do with the waterways. You should research this conflict a bit deeper. South American drug cartels have very advanced tech, in many cases more advanced than not specialised military units. Their organisational capabilities, which are the main reason for their “success”, are significantly superior than ones of those who try to control them and span through quite a lot of organisations. Vikings were a bunch of thugs that attacked and pillaged weak peaceful settlements.

Appearing suddenly for a raid with an amphib force? :) How are you going to do that? I suggest you study some of the amphib operations conducted by USN during WWII, and then think about the capability of modern sensor/weapon systems. Also, where is this river system in the North Island and what key logistics and infrastructure are you talking about?

[Akzle]

te awa waikato! :laugh:

[ellipsis]

...my friend has a central NI pond...a really big one...it would need a few more Willows planted around it for making it less obvious from the air, and he would probably only want it vacated for duck shooting season...I could run the idea past him...

[Banditbandit]

That made me smile, I think I'll share this extract with a few people:) Viet Cong was not technically inferior to US, in some aspects it was superior and the reasons for US defeat have nothing to do with the waterways. You should research this conflict a bit deeper. South American drug cartels have very advanced tech, in many cases more advanced than not specialised military units. Their organisational capabilities, which are the main reason for their “success”, are significantly superior than ones of those who try to control them and span through quite a lot of organisations. Vikings were a bunch of thugs that attacked and pillaged weak peaceful settlements.

Appearing suddenly for a raid with an amphib force? :) How are you going to do that? I suggest you study some of the amphib operations conducted by USN during WWII, and then think about the capability of modern sensor/weapon systems. Also, where is this river system in the North Island and what key logistics and infrastructure are you talking about?


Mao Zedong once said 'The army that controls the countryside at night controls the country' - Vietnam is a good case in point. The Vietcong certainly knew Mao's teachings and put them into practice ..

As well, the US political structure lost quite a bit of support at home and lost enthusiasm for a lengthy and expensive war - much the same reason why England lost the American war of independence ...

Surprise amphibian operations al la the Vikings is simply not possible with current sensor and coastal defence systems. A strike force may get close enough to attack without detection to launch an attack with some element of surprise - at least enough to have a small advantage of time .. but it is not as easy as it used to be.

A guerrilla force in Godzone would not escape modern detection techniques, especially infra-red. Tracking from satellites is way too easy ...

[puddytat]

I think the Navy should keep on doing what its doing...namely fishing shit & stuff.
When & or if we become the target of some foreign state bent on having a strategic place in the South Pacific against our will, then I firmly believe that because we are "strategically" placed that our "defence" will be assured by which ever global power that wants us .
Whether we want it or not.

[Ocean1]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/67439413/boat-caught-with-illegal-180-tonne-toothfish-haul

[rustyrobot]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/67439413/boat-caught-with-illegal-180-tonne-toothfish-haul

Yeah - oddly the New Zealand news articles don't mention that the vessel was successfully boarded by the Australians a month after the unsuccessful attempt by New Zealand.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/130986/australian-govt-seizes-toothfish-poacher-kunlun/

It will be interesting to see how long they can hold it in Thailand. Knowing the deep pockets of the syndicate likely to be backing the boats I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to slip away.

[Ocean1]

Yeah - oddly the New Zealand news articles don't mention that the vessel was successfully boarded by the Australians a month after the unsuccessful attempt by New Zealand.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/130986/australian-govt-seizes-toothfish-poacher-kunlun/

It will be interesting to see how long they can hold it in Thailand. Knowing the deep pockets of the syndicate likely to be backing the boats I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to slip away.

They were boarded by the Aus navy in international waters?

[ellipsis]

...fuck the navy...leave it to our airforce...

[rustyrobot]

...fuck the navy...leave it to our airforce...

Maybe they tried?

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/air-force-forced-to-turn-back-from-vanuatu-2015031716

"Two flights carrying aid for storm-ravaged Vanuatu have been forced to head back to New Zealand without landing.

Royal New Zealand Air Force sent a C-130 Hercules and a Boeing 757 to the archipelago today but both were forced to turn back after unrelated instrumentation problems."

[ellipsis]

...that sarcasm font is really needed at times...

[FJRider]

Sink the fuckers ....




Nuff said.

[Akzle]

...that sarcasm font is really needed at times...

comic sans, i'm telling you man!

[Ocean1]

Sink the fuckers ....

As long as you're good with, say the Aussies, sinking a Kiwi fishing boat, fine.

[FJRider]

As long as you're good with, say the Aussies, sinking a Kiwi fishing boat, fine.

If the Kiwi's are not where the are supposed to be .... go the Ockers ...


But ... if the Ockers are NOT where THEY should be .... they'd better wear a life jacket.

[Flip]

The RNZN have opend fire on overseas fishing vessels in NZ waters in the late 80's. They stopped when the boat caught on fire.

[awa355]

The RNZN have opend fire on overseas fishing vessels in NZ waters in the late 80's. They stopped when the boat caught on fire.

Which boat? theirs or ours'?? :blink:

[ellipsis]

Which boat? theirs or ours'?? :blink:


...no, the wanker landlubber with a new fizz boat who had no idea of where he was...

[Swoop]

The Navy appear to be unable to organize a root in a whorehouse.

They had the taxpayer fund one specialist toy of theirs, named the Canterbury. It was a dedicated "disaster relief" vessel that could be used with our Pacific neighbours...

I can imagine some mid-level desk jockey fucking around with deployment schedules and saying that Vanuatu was not do-able because of some other important (but scheduled) tasking. Like lifeboat training off the coast of Dunedin or somewhere.

I note the "media" hasn't raised a pen or annoyed some electrons to throw some light onto this. The knowledge was out there that a "super cyclone" was bearing down on one of the Pacific nations, so the "where did that fucking well come from!" excuse can't be used by them.

The poor matelot's slogging their guts out while trying to jam hundreds of tons of gear aboard are hopefully bitching about senior staff.
The brass hats should be hung out to dry for this utter incompetence.

[Delerium]

The Navy appear to be unable to organize a root in a whorehouse.

They had the taxpayer fund one specialist toy of theirs, named the Canterbury. It was a dedicated "disaster relief" vessel that could be used with our Pacific neighbours...

I can imagine some mid-level desk jockey fucking around with deployment schedules and saying that Vanuatu was not do-able because of some other important (but scheduled) tasking. Like lifeboat training off the coast of Dunedin or somewhere.

I note the "media" hasn't raised a pen or annoyed some electrons to throw some light onto this. The knowledge was out there that a "super cyclone" was bearing down on one of the Pacific nations, so the "where did that fucking well come from!" excuse can't be used by them.

The poor matelot's slogging their guts out while trying to jam hundreds of tons of gear aboard are hopefully bitching about senior staff.
The brass hats should be hung out to dry for this utter incompetence.

Good rant!

[Swoop]

Good rant!

Thank you. I aim to please.