LAMS bikes, for petrol heads

[bingslayer]

LAMS approved bikes that are not exactly learner friendly, around $5k and under because anyone who is spending more than that on a L bike needs their head checked :bleh:

Before the PC crew step in, I fully agree that a first timer should stick to a scorpio 225 or similar for a few months. However there are a lot of reasons why a capable rider may find themselves stuck on their learners/restricted until they can legally get a decent bike....this thread is for those people :niceone:

Il get the ball rolling:

Motards :Punk: , WR450f and 450exc etc.... Definately a hoonworthy choice to do your time on. I can imagine a complete newbie would easily find their bum dragging on the ground if they were not carefull with their right hand!

[TheDemonLord]

LAMS approved bikes that are not exactly learner friendly, around $5k and under because anyone who is spending more than that on a L bike needs their head checked :bleh:

Before the PC crew step in, I fully agree that a first timer should stick to a scorpio 225 or similar for a few months. However there are a lot of reasons why a capable rider may find themselves stuck on their learners/restricted until they can legally get a decent bike....this thread is for those people :niceone:

Il get the ball rolling:

Motards :Punk: , WR450f and 450exc etc.... Definately a hoonworthy choice to do your time on. I can imagine a complete newbie would easily find their bum dragging on the ground if they were not carefull with their right hand!

GSX650FU

With a simple snip it becomes a full power 650...

Not that I would know....

[Akzle]

GSX650FU

With a simple snip it becomes a full power 650...

Not that I would know....

but higher rego.... if you're inclined to pay it that is.

[BlackSheepLogic]

GSX650FU With a simple snip it becomes a full power 650... Not that I would know....

Yep easy to derestrict the GSX650FU but the downside on the GSX650FU is that it's a heavy bike. (only weights ~20Kg less than my bike).

[BlackSheepLogic]

but higher rego.... if you're inclined to pay it that is.

Judging by the number of derestricted mopeds I'l say most people are not so inclined.

[Haggis2]

The amount you pay in registration is cc rated only from what I thought. Unless they bought in Dyno testing at WOF time they would never know if a LAMS bike had been hotted up or not.

You're right. 600 plus cc costs more

[James Deuce]

but higher rego.... if you're inclined to pay it that is.


The amount you pay in registration is cc rated only from what I thought. Unless they bought in Dyno testing at WOF time they would never know if a LAMS bike had been hotted up or not.

For someone who complains that people don't read her posts properly, you:

A. Screwed that up.
B. Still haven't figured Akzle out.

Glass houses and all that. Oh, and history can be helpful too. And local knowledge. And observation skills.

[kiwi-on-wheels]

Early Cbr250... 18k redline :-D

[TheDemonLord]

Yep easy to derestrict the GSX650FU but the downside on the GSX650FU is that it's a heavy bike. (only weights ~20Kg less than my bike).

It is heavy (I may have tested the frame sliders while moving it around my garage and getting caught out)

but when riding in weather, the weight is a plus, not getting pushed around as much in winds is awesome

[MarkH]

It is heavy (I may have tested the frame sliders while moving it around my garage and getting caught out)

but when riding in weather, the weight is a plus, not getting pushed around as much in winds is awesome

That bike isn't heavy, my ST1300 would be ~100kg heavier!
But yeah, heavy bikes are pretty good when riding in strong winds.

For a LAMS bike the biggest question would be what style of bike you are wanting.
There are bikes like the DR650 which is available as LAMS compliant, but you could mod the fuck out of one to have a pretty grunty bike - torque for days!
Some mods would make it not so LAMS compliant, but if you stuck with stock exhaust then I'd doubt any cops would notice.

[EJK]

Good learners bike on budget.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-833904761.htm

[mossy1200]

Good learners bike on budget.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-833904761.htm

Yoshi pipe so it wouldn't comply.

[sil3nt]

I test rode an RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=RC390) the other day. Why anyone would spend $10,000 on that is beyond me. Vibrates like hell, has shit brakes and wasn't exactly confidence inspiring in high speed corners. An excellent town commuter but you can get an excellent town commuter for $8000 less....

[mossy1200]

I test rode an RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=RC390) the other day. Why anyone would spend $10,000 on that is beyond me. Vibrates like hell, has shit brakes and wasn't exactly confidence inspiring in high speed corners. An excellent town commuter but you can get an excellent town commuter for $8000 less....

They look cool from a distance though.

[pritch]

I test rode an RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=RC390) the other day. Why anyone would spend $10,000 on that is beyond me. Vibrates like hell, has shit brakes and wasn't exactly confidence inspiring in high speed corners. An excellent town commuter but you can get an excellent town commuter for $8000 less....

Ahh but that's not for the likes of thee or me, it's a teenager's wet dream. Of course back when I was a teenager all bikes vibrated, had shit brakes and weren't exactly confidence inspiring. And then there was the question of reliability - and the electrics produced by Joseph Lucas the prince of darkness.

I'm in envy of the bikes the kids have available today. I doubt that I'd have survived if they were available way back when...

[breakaway]

I test rode an RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=RC390) the other day. Why anyone would spend $10,000 on that is beyond me. Vibrates like hell, has shit brakes and wasn't exactly confidence inspiring in high speed corners. An excellent town commuter but you can get an excellent town commuter for $8000 less....

Same reason people pay top dollar for their RVFs etc. It floats their boat.

[BlackSheepLogic]

It is heavy (I may have tested the frame sliders while moving it around my garage and getting caught out)
but when riding in weather, the weight is a plus, not getting pushed around as much in winds is awesome

Yep, in a sports touring role it would probably be my top choice in the segment & price.

[gjm]

Yoshi pipe so it wouldn't comply.

What mods are allowed on a LAMS bike? Anything which improves the power-to-weight ratio is out (I think) but could you take a LAMS-approved big single and turn it into a cafe racer, assuming no performance mods?

[mossy1200]

What mods are allowed on a LAMS bike? Anything which improves the power-to-weight ratio is out (I think) but could you take a LAMS-approved big single and turn it into a cafe racer, assuming no performance mods?

I would say if you lower the weight by an amount that the popo would see as an attempt to improve power to weight percentage you would need get it certified to prove it was within the limits and recorded as being ok. I could be wrong though it could be a flat no its no longer Lams approved and cant be considered as such even if checked.
Lets face it if you take a bike and remove enough bits to be a good café racer its unlikely many bikes will remain LAMS legal.
Although mine isn't under 650 or on the list it shows its not hard to shed weight. Mines lost 72kg so far. Most of the old air cooled and oil coiled 500+ bikes that would suit café racer conversion will drop 40kg very easily. If they were already a light bike then they wouldn't have been on that list in the first place.

[Imagineering]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=829559754


600SS, 750SS & 1000DS Motors will all fit if one is so inclined.

[Akzle]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=829559754


600SS, 750SS & 1000DS Motors will all fit if one is so inclined.

but what kind of masochistic moron (MM (tm)) would buy a duke??

[EJK]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=829559754



He said he wanted a bike for a petrol head, not for a mechanic or an electrician!

[Rhys]

[QUOTE=Akzle;1130819126]but what kind of masochistic moron (MM (tm)) would buy a duke??[/QUOTE
The same one that would buy a BMW

[pritch]

but what kind of masochistic moron (MM (tm)) would buy a duke??

Ummmm guilty yer honour. :whistle:

[bingslayer]

GSX650FU

With a simple snip it becomes a full power 650...

Not that I would know....

Yes definately a good choice....however the U models are nowhere near the 5k mark :bleh:


Early Cbr250... 18k redline :-D

The lil 4cyl 90s 250 sports bikes are definately still a relevant choice. I flicked my zxr250 off quickly thinking that they would become worthless when the LAMS kicked in but here I am considering one again. There isnt actually much competion if you are looking for a full on sports lams bike. The only thing is that they are so crap off the lights and if you commute a lot (filtering etc) then this can get a bit frustrating.

Can anyone compare the now legal 400s to the 250s in terms of moving off the line in a hurry? Im seriously considering a bandit 400 or maybe even zxr,fzr,gsxr but only if it is worth it as they are much more scarce than the 250s


I test rode an RC390 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=RC390) the other day. Why anyone would spend $10,000 on that is beyond me. Vibrates like hell, has shit brakes and wasn't exactly confidence inspiring in high speed corners. An excellent town commuter but you can get an excellent town commuter for $8000 less....

I agree, I was really excited when I heard that ktm was going to play the lams game. However the price has even made the bike not as attractive as when I first saw one. Maybe when they are older and cheaper they will be a great option....but not with that price tag.

Any other suggestions? Ive recently seen a Honda bros 650 , which would be great if you liked the look of them, unfortunately I couldnt live with it. Its got a single sided swingarm and a nice low swept exhaust but it just doesnt look right. Honda should have just made a naked NC30 with raised bars and less agressive peg position...now that would have been cool:niceone:

[nzspokes]

This would be a mint bike. Perfect learner bike with good power.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-835202814.htm

[GrayWolf]

Ahh but that's not for the likes of thee or me, it's a teenager's wet dream. Of course back when I was a teenager all bikes vibrated, had shit brakes and weren't exactly confidence inspiring. And then there was the question of reliability - and the electrics produced by Joseph Lucas the prince of darkness.

I'm in envy of the bikes the kids have available today. I doubt that I'd have survived if they were available way back when...

not sure about that, the Starfire 250's, tiger cub sports, ariel arrow etc, were never as quick as the japper 250's, but man, the handling?? One day I was riding my S1 (kwaka 250 triple, for the unknowing).. blue haze of smoke, went past a nice looking 'brit' cafe racer single L plater (250), came to the twisty bits on the country lanes, and braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap, he came past me like crazy....... Caught up with him at box hill (bikers meeting place) ooops the yellow and black should have 'warned me'.. bloody Ducati 250 desmo.......:laugh:

Try re-riding one of 'our' 250's... the handling quickly comes back to remind you of the period... if we survived them? /i'd guess we'd have survived a modern one, back then.

[bingslayer]

This would be a mint bike. Perfect learner bike with good power.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-835202814.htm

Those are actually pretty dam cool with their full sized wheels and flowing lines. Plus it looks like I could take a nap on that seat! Im still a bit hesitant on the 4cyl 250s though with their lack of pulling power off the lights.I wonder if the hornet is geared a bit lower than the cbr , considering its more aimed at touring/commuting? A few times I got caught out in the wrong gear on my old zxr, that just doesnt happen on the Vtwin hyobag gt250 im currently riding, its annoyingly easy to ride. The howl of the lil 4cyls just cant be beat though!

Has anyone tried to gear down their 250s to be a bit more grunty off the bottom?

[nzspokes]

Those are actually pretty dam cool with their full sized wheels and flowing lines. Plus it looks like I could take a nap on that seat! Im still a bit hesitant on the 4cyl 250s though with their lack of pulling power off the lights.I wonder if the hornet is geared a bit lower than the cbr , considering its more aimed at touring/commuting? A few times I got caught out in the wrong gear on my old zxr, that just doesnt happen on the Vtwin hyobag gt250 im currently riding, its annoyingly easy to ride. The howl of the lil 4cyls just cant be beat though!

Has anyone tried to gear down their 250s to be a bit more grunty off the bottom?

A hornet 250 will eat a Hyo off the line. Its got almost double the HP.

Being in the right gear is just part of riding a motorcycle. My litre V twin wont pull away in the wrong gear so why would a 250?

[TheDemonLord]

I would say if you lower the weight by an amount that the popo would see as an attempt to improve power to weight percentage you would need get it certified to prove it was within the limits and recorded as being ok. I could be wrong though it could be a flat no its no longer Lams approved and cant be considered as such even if checked.
Lets face it if you take a bike and remove enough bits to be a good café racer its unlikely many bikes will remain LAMS legal.
Although mine isn't under 650 or on the list it shows its not hard to shed weight. Mines lost 72kg so far. Most of the old air cooled and oil coiled 500+ bikes that would suit café racer conversion will drop 40kg very easily. If they were already a light bike then they wouldn't have been on that list in the first place.

^^^ This I believe - I think they will turn a blind eye to small things (like racing levers, crash knobs, pack racks etc.) but the general rule is that anything that touches the engine/exhaust system and any significant changes to weight will make it not LAMS approved.

From what I read, the LAMS list isn't subject to certification either - basically a bike in its stock form is LAMS approved from the manufacturers specs, any changes to that and its automatically not LAMS approved


Yep, in a sports touring role it would probably be my top choice in the segment & price.

Yeah, I test rode a couple of the big LAMS approved sport tourers - the GSX was by far my fav (comfier seat to accomodate my fat ass, ECU limit instead of throttle stop, Gear and Fuel gauges)


Yes definately a good choice....however the U models are nowhere near the 5k mark

Ah.

didn't realise you had a price range (must of misread something), they are a bit pricey, I incurred the wrath of she-who-must-be-kept-happy when I got mine, but that is all sorted now, I have pretty much doubled the KMs on it since I got it, and it just purrs along.

Will be interesting to see how its held its value when I come to sell it and gets myself a thou+ bike, despite the KMs I still think it will be worth a good 8-9k

[kiwi-on-wheels]

My cbr i think is running stock gearing, rpms for speed looks about right. Its great around town, very poky away from lights just got to slip the clutch and give it a bit of rev... peak torque isnt until like 10k rpm and power at 12500 or there abouts, but the scream is fantastic :-)

[mossy1200]

Honda NTV600 Revere 583
Honda NTV650 Revere 647
Honda BROS 649


Note Honda Bros 650 is a recent addition to the list.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-834903723.htm
You can thank me for that link later.
Contact him and tell him 2.8k buy now and own a great LAMS bike (might need tone the muffler down, maybe hes got original also).
These are 3 bikes very under rated and would be great LAMS bikes on a under 5k budget.

[awa355]

The amount you pay in registration is cc rated only from what I thought. Unless they bought in Dyno testing at WOF time they would never know if a LAMS bike had been hotted up or not.

I feel the only time you are likely to get the LAMs eligibility questioned is if a cop pulls you up. I register my bike at the local NZVT, they only check the form is filled out and take my money. Have never once asked about compliance with the rego class. A wof at the local garage, and they have never queried the LAMs status of the bike, as long as it passes all the requirements.

[gjm]

Honda NTV600 Revere 583
Honda NTV650 Revere 647
Honda BROS 649


Note Honda Bros 650 is a recent addition to the list.

Good bikes, all. I rode a Bros soon after they came out, late 80s. Sweet - light, easy to ride, plenty of go for everyday use. More than a few in the UK were converted for racing.

For a first-time rider, I'd recommend the Bros 400. On paper it may be overweight, underpowered and getting a little long in the tooth. Find a good one though, and you'll find it is torquey, doesn't need constant gear changes, is economical, reliable and really easy to ride.

[MisterD]

I feel the only time you are likely to get the LAMs eligibility questioned is if a cop pulls you up.

I still reckon that what the legislation is really there for, is to stop people turning restricted LAMS versions into full-fat bikes and that nobody really cares about pipes that add a few HP, but would still leave the bike inside LAMS hp/kg figures.

I'll report back when my SR has gone from 23hp to the giddy heights of 28..

[xenothius]

With the correct application of throttle and clutch my I4 250 (gsf) would leave hyo's with a serious case of WTF! And that was under 5k and did a great job of teaching gearing and throttle, even now I have a lams approved triumph I still wouldn't trade that time and experience.

[DamianW]

Take a LAMS 250 to Hampton Downs, Taupo or any other track. With some coaching (eg CSS) an inexperienced rider will quickly learn that the bike has more ability than the rider. Why? Because at a track a 250 will carry a shite load more corner speed than any bike (legally) on a public road in NZ

Edit: There's a lad in the national supersport racing class that can lap 1:22 at Hampton Downs on a Hyosung GT250 pre-season. Now that's quick.

[gjm]

Take a LAMS 250 to Hampton Downs, Taupo or any other track. With some coaching (eg CSS) an inexperienced rider will quickly learn that the bike has more ability than the rider. Why? Because at a track a 250 will carry a shite load more corner speed than any bike (legally) on a public road in NZ

Edit: There's a lad in the national supersport racing class that can lap 1:22 at Hampton Downs on a Hyosung GT250 pre-season. Now that's quick.

Many - most? - bikes are better than most riders. Of course, the only place to really find out how good a rider - or a bike - is, is on the track. Certainly my trips up and down SH1 don't give any opportunity for testing anything (other than the patience of any traffic police).

[DamianW]

Many - most? - bikes are better than most riders. Of course, the only place to really find out how good a rider - or a bike - is, is on the track. Certainly my trips up and down SH1 don't give any opportunity for testing anything (other than the patience of any traffic police).

^^ Too true.

All the more reason for folks to get more enjoyment from their riding by giving track days a go. There's heaps of very knowledgable & experienced people who are always keen to help riders improve.

[nzspokes]

^^ Too true.

All the more reason for folks to get more enjoyment from their riding by giving track days a go. There's heaps of very knowledgable & experienced people who are always keen to help riders improve.

Agreed, nothing like being in a turn on a thou and having a 8 year old ride round the outside of you on a Hyobag 250. :facepalm:

[haydes55]

Agreed, nothing like being in a turn on a thou and having a 8 year old ride round the outside of you on a Hyobag 250. :facepalm:

That happened to me on my first ever track day at Hampton downs on my thou. My ego made sure I ditched him on the straights and picked up my corner speed.

My KLX300 could corner faster than my thou.... But on the open road, with random gravel patches, the 300's tires would easily step way off line and take longer to regain grip, the big fat tires on the thou, along with added weight to actually get heat in them, doesn't get as badly effected by changes in grip. I feel safer cornering faster on the thou than a smaller bike, on real world roads.

[gjm]

Agreed, nothing like being in a turn on a thou and having a 8 year old ride round the outside of you on a Hyobag 250. :facepalm:

I did that to the rider of a ZX9R, while on my GS1000. Priceless. He left me for dead on the next straight, ran a touch wide and I was up the inside and past him, again. Probably more to do with knwing my bike (and I was ridinganother GS1000 in Earlystocks) than anything else.

The bikes available to NZ riders via LAMS can be pretty good if you spend a little time researching and learning what they can do. OK, if (like me) you have a highway 60km commute to and from work, a 250cc single or twin isn't going to light your fire for long. But if you live anywhere rural, or have a commute on smaller roads, many LAMS bikes could be a lot of fun. And most of them would ride around me on anything twisty.

[ryanstev]

I bought my 1992 CB400 Super Four for $3,200, from Experience Motorcycles.
39kw/53 HP, 190kg, just squeezes under 150kw per tonne.

[HenryDorsetCase]

So my partners brother showed up on his new bike on Sunday. He is one who rode for a few years, never got a full licence, gave it up for a while and now is getting into it again. He is on whatever the restricted licence is called now because of the whole CBF sorting it out years ago thing.

But that's not important right now.

He rolled up on a brand spanking Triumph Street Triple 660 LAMS.

What a nice bike! the only thing different in them vs the full fat version is the capacity decrease (shorter stroke?) and ECU but the chassis and running gear and accoutrements are the same.

What a nice bike! He offered me a ride but I told him I would wait till it was run in.

the other thing was it was $14k brand spankers I think he said.

Cor. since I never ride my Street Triple R faster than 101kph and never lean it more than 10 degrees either way, I'm thinking of trading up!

It also came with decent tyres.

I introduced him to the word "farkling". I dont think his wife will thank me... but their credit card provider doubtless will.

[DamianW]

So my partners brother showed up on his new bike on Sunday. He is one who rode for a few years, never got a full licence, gave it up for a while and now is getting into it again. He is on whatever the restricted licence is called now because of the whole CBF sorting it out years ago thing.

But that's not important right now.

He rolled up on a brand spanking Triumph Street Triple 660 LAMS.

What a nice bike! the only thing different in them vs the full fat version is the capacity decrease (shorter stroke?) and ECU but the chassis and running gear and accoutrements are the same.

What a nice bike! He offered me a ride but I told him I would wait till it was run in.

the other thing was it was $14k brand spankers I think he said.

Cor. since I never ride my Street Triple R faster than 101kph and never lean it more than 10 degrees either way, I'm thinking of trading up!

It also came with decent tyres.

I introduced him to the word "farkling". I dont think his wife will thank me... but their credit card provider doubtless will.

The Striple 660 is selling very well in the dealers by all accounts and at around $2k cheaper than the LAMS Ducati 659 it's relatively well priced too. Haven't ridden a 660 but it's likely to be a hoot to ride if the 675 version of the Striple is anything to go by.

[TheDemonLord]

I have found out what Farkle means

I hate you
My Wallet hates you
My wife when she finds out will hat you too

[HenryDorsetCase]

luckily your bike loves you, because of the farkling....

[Reckless]

Had to google it but I like it.

Motorcycle enthusiasts may install accessories, called farkles (also spelled farkel), to customize their machine.
One source attributes the term to Pete Wells, the organizer of a 1997 Honda ST1100 rally
www.nabble.com/Re:-Farkel,
{delete this line and join two halves for url}
-or-is-it-Farkle--p2354383.html

The term is well known in the sport touring community.

An enthusiast may be in the process of "farkling". The completed motorcycle would be all "farkled up". Radar detectors, Global Positioning System receivers, heated grips, and satellite radios are some of those farkles. Other accessories could be aftermarket seats, side and/or top cases or bar risers, which make the motorcycle more suitable for long miles.

F.A.R.K.L.E. -- Fancy Accessory Really Kool Likely Expensive

My Missus and me have been farkling ours since we got it and the list is long but nearly there :yes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Had to google it but I like it.

Motorcycle enthusiasts may install accessories, called farkles (also spelled farkel), to customize their machine.
One source attributes the term to Pete Wells, the organizer of a 1997 Honda ST1100 rally
www.nabble.com/Re:-Farkel,
{delete this line and join two halves for url}
-or-is-it-Farkle--p2354383.html

The term is well known in the sport touring community.

An enthusiast may be in the process of "farkling". The completed motorcycle would be all "farkled up". Radar detectors, Global Positioning System receivers, heated grips, and satellite radios are some of those farkles. Other accessories could be aftermarket seats, side and/or top cases or bar risers, which make the motorcycle more suitable for long miles.

F.A.R.K.L.E. -- Fancy Accessory Really Kool Likely Expensive

My Missus and me have been farkling ours since we got it and the list is long but nearly there :yes:

my bike came with a bunch of them - stuff I would not have done like the Triumph accessory ano brake reservoirs and stuff like that... it also had the front cowl and flyscreen. But the big money I spent has been in lieu of trading the old girl: Ohlins TTX36 shock, fork rebuild* by KSS, Arrow lowboy zorst and a bunch of other stuff like CRG levers and a fender extender and radiator guard. Oh, and a Triumph grab rail: I have taken the passenger footpegs off it but the grabrail is good for putting it on the axle stand.

It goes adequately now, just not enough.

*currently mulling over a set of Ohlins cartridges for it.