Police admit knocking motorcyclist off bike

[madbikeboy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/65179377/police-admit-knocking-motorcyclist-off-bike

Hmm.

[Pound]

Best thing the cop could have done, and as far as I'm concerned, the family of the biker should be grateful to the cop for saving the bikers life.

[JimO]

Best thing the cop could have done, and as far as I'm concerned, the family of the biker should be grateful to the cop for saving the bikers life.
yep, the clown was old enough to know better as well

[James Deuce]

I knew you guys would take the approach of, "It doesn't matter if we kill one innocent person so long as we catch the evil drug dealers."

That's all well and good, but unlike the good bastard cops who frequent KB, most of them identify bikes by colour. Then your estate is left with the expense of proving it wasn't you who committed the crime that engendered the overly ridiculous response of knocking someone off a motorcycle. I've been stopped and threatened with arrest for daring to ride past a cop who was looking for a speeding motorcyclist. The only thing that saved me was my zero ticket record. I was riding a Harley Davidson Dyna Glide. He was looking for what he called a sports bike. He didn't know the brand, just that is was silver like the bike I was riding.

If it becomes OK to to simply swerve in front of a motorcyclist and the "General Public" support it because the motorcyclist deserved it and was old enough to know better, then innocent motorcyclist killed by Police due to dubious pursuit practices becomes collateral biker death in war against lawless bikie gangs.

[Mo NZ]

Sounds like he did stop...finally. Then he got knocked off.

" Davie said the motorcycle came to a complete stop after coming around the corner of Collins St, and a police car knocked the motorcyclist off his bike at low speed".


I guess we will never know if he was about to gap it again .

[caseye]

Old enough to know better.
Yes.
Dumb enough to still have drugs on him when still evading police and gets knocked off his bike.
Bad karma, for him.
I went back and re read the article, based purely on how it reads, in this case I don't think there was an issue of identity, he was being chased after twice declining to stop for police, in the attempt to evade them he came to almost a complete stop and the pursuing police car knocked the bike out from under him,at low speed, acceptable practice under the circumstances in my humble opinion.
Young and impetuous police types have been known to chase different motorcycles thinking they were one and the same, usually though any police officer knocking someone off a bike or putting a pursued car around is pretty sure its the one they're after.

[p.dath]

I knew you guys would take the approach of, "It doesn't matter if we kill one innocent person so long as we catch the evil drug dealers."

No one was killed.

[Luckylegs]

I knew you guys would take the approach of, "It doesn't matter if we kill one innocent person so long as we catch the evil drug dealers."

That's all well and good, but unlike the good bastard cops who frequent KB, most of them identify bikes by colour. Then your estate is left with the expense of proving it wasn't you who committed the crime that engendered the overly ridiculous response of knocking someone off a motorcycle. I've been stopped and threatened with arrest for daring to ride past a cop who was looking for a speeding motorcyclist. The only thing that saved me was my zero ticket record. I was riding a Harley Davidson Dyna Glide. He was looking for what he called a sports bike. He didn't know the brand, just that is was silver like the bike I was riding.

If it becomes OK to to simply swerve in front of a motorcyclist and the "General Public" support it because the motorcyclist deserved it and was old enough to know better, then innocent motorcyclist killed by Police due to dubious pursuit practices becomes collateral biker death in war against lawless bikie gangs.

This is not about whether he was an evil drug dealer, it's about choosing to continue instead of stopping like a normal law abiding citizen

[Banditbandit]

This story says he was hitting speed of 118kph ... https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/26031616/biker-hit-in-police-chase/

Shit - I'm not always in top gear at that speed ...

And the cops did not know he was "an evil drug dealer" .. they found drugs on him AFTER they caught him. And they found drugs - might have been one tinnie .. that does not make him an evil drug dealer ...

I'd say they tapped him to make him fall off at no speed .. rather than have him take off again ...

[Mo NZ]

No No No No.

Just read that article.
He was doing 118 and then took off.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I knew you guys would take the approach of, "It doesn't matter if we kill one innocent person so long as we catch the evil drug dealers."

That's all well and good, but unlike the good bastard cops who frequent KB, most of them identify bikes by colour. Then your estate is left with the expense of proving it wasn't you who committed the crime that engendered the overly ridiculous response of knocking someone off a motorcycle. I've been stopped and threatened with arrest for daring to ride past a cop who was looking for a speeding motorcyclist. The only thing that saved me was my zero ticket record. I was riding a Harley Davidson Dyna Glide. He was looking for what he called a sports bike. He didn't know the brand, just that is was silver like the bike I was riding.

If it becomes OK to to simply swerve in front of a motorcyclist and the "General Public" support it because the motorcyclist deserved it and was old enough to know better, then innocent motorcyclist killed by Police due to dubious pursuit practices becomes collateral biker death in war against lawless bikie gangs.

+1 This posts sums up my thoughts and concerns about this practice nicely.

It's not ok to deliberately knock someone off the bike. It can cause serious injuries and people have died after tipping a bike over while stopped. There's far worst criminals out their than bikers who don't stop. The pursuit should have ended if it became so dangerous that the only option was to knock the bike over with a police vehicle.

[BlackSheepLogic]

This story says he was hitting speed of 118kph ... Shit - I'm not always in top gear at that speed ...
Technically I don't even need to be in 2nd gear at that speed, although I do like 2nd gear much better.

[James Deuce]

No one was killed.

Sigh. You don't get any less literal with age, do you?

[haydes55]

"your speed was so dangerous and reckless that we had to force you to crash below the speed limit to tell you".

Irony, another rider who would have been safer without speed limits.

Although he deserved to be knocked off if he was trying to corner by stopping the bike and walking it around the corner :/ something tells me the police side of the story isn't 100% accurate. Or the guy was fried on drugs.

[Pound]

+1 This posts sums up my thoughts and concerns about this practice nicely.

It's not ok to deliberately knock someone off the bike. It can cause serious injuries and people have died after tipping a bike over while stopped. There's far worst criminals out their than bikers who don't stop. The pursuit should have ended if it became so dangerous that the only option was to knock the bike over with a police vehicle.


On the other side of the coin though, what if he had come off at speed and was seriously injured/killed whilst the cops were chasing him?
Surely the lesser of two evils.......

[James Deuce]

This is not about whether he was an evil drug dealer, it's about choosing to continue instead of stopping like a normal law abiding citizen

I know that. My point is that the PR machine can paint a picture that justifies the action after the event.

I try to post in a way that doesn't insult the audience.

Knocking him off, even at "low speed", is a dubious practice. If this one event caught someone with drugs then it becomes the starting point of a litany that includes the "fact" that motorcyclists doing runners are druggies or drug dealers, thereby justifying an action that can cause serious injury, even at low speed.

[schrodingers cat]

Boooooorrrrrringgggggg

Fuckwit gets some shit happening to him.

Liberal motorcyclists on the Internet throw insults


Dude was a cock. Fuck him

[caseye]

+1 This posts sums up my thoughts and concerns about this practice nicely.

It's not ok to deliberately knock someone off the bike. It can cause serious injuries and people have died after tipping a bike over while stopped. There's far worst criminals out their than bikers who don't stop. The pursuit should have ended if it became so dangerous that the only option was to knock the bike over with a police vehicle.

Na, sorry, you can't simply pull up behind someone/anyone bike or car and ask them politely to stop and that be an end to it!
Might as well send all of the guys and girls in blue home and give everyone a gun.
Pursuit initiated, vehicle identified, requested to stop, blue and reds, loud hailer etc, twice, take them out, end of subject. lets not forget, it was a low speed punt, not a full blooded ram raid get him at any cost, it was a sensible and thought out act that stopped an offender.
Finding drugs warrants etc after the event, bonus and this way no one is in any doubt, being chased by Police? good idea would be to stop and do as you are told.
As for there being far worse criminals out there, the result here would indicate that this rider is one of those "far worse" types and this is.
A typical of that type, run, not stop, defy until someone else is killed or injured and then get lawyered up and go to court.

[Pound]

Pursuit initiated, vehicle identified, requested to stop, blue and reds, loud hailer etc, twice, take them out, end of subject.


Pretty much my view on the matter.

If you deliberately fail to stop, actively try and evade the police, well, you forfeit all of your rights and deserve whatever may, or may not happen to you............

[BlackSheepLogic]

Na, sorry, you can't simply pull up behind someone/anyone bike or car and ask them politely to stop and that be an end to it!
Might as well send all of the guys and girls in blue home and give everyone a gun

It's actually common practice by police forces outside of NZ to break the pursuit off when it's engaging lives. The rider/driver are included in that assessment.

[Luckylegs]

It was not good from the perspective that it has never been police policy to chase motorcyclists to the point where they will be knocked off if they don't stop. In the event this knocking the guy off is found to be reasonable after an investigation it will then become a good incentive for motorcyclists to stop which cant be a bad thing can it. Out of fairness though they would have to apply the same to fleeing car drivers too if they or motorcyclists don't crash themselves anyway.

What have you done with cassina???

[PrincessBandit]

If he'd pulled over in the first place as "instructed" to do the whole thing wouldn't have happened. If you are going to run because of a guilty conscience or for shits and giggles... :yawn:

[Tazz]

http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif

[Luckylegs]

http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif

Da fuck????

[PrincessBandit]

Wassa pwoblem? You expecticating some regurgitated posts?

[Mom]

On the other side of the coin though, what if he had come off at speed and was seriously injured/killed whilst the cops were chasing him?
Surely the lesser of two evils.......

If he had crashed and burned while being pursued he would have got what he deserved IMO. I am not an advocate of the runner.

My reading of the article in the "media" tell me he made a bad turn and was actually stopped when he was knocked off his bike. The Police in this chase were out of line! Bikers are bad ok? Get used to it.

Sure, this idiot was found to have drugs once he picked himself off the tarmac. IDIOT is as idiot does.

Knocking a biker off his bike attempting to stop him is inexcusable. Forget the fucking speed will ya!

[R650R]

Knocking him off, even at "low speed", is a dubious practice. If this one event caught someone with drugs then it becomes the starting point of a litany that includes the "fact" that motorcyclists doing runners are druggies or drug dealers, thereby justifying an action that can cause serious injury, even at low speed.

Your drawing a long bow here. for ages Police have been doing similar stuff to cars with the moving block technique. Now while they have road spiked innocent motorists at times and their own patrol cars they have never moving blocked an innocent car. So the likelihood of innocent biker getting deliberately knocked off doesn't even register on scale of probability.

Failing to stop is a criminal offence so any minor tumbles is no different to a normal crim resisting arrest getting a few knocks on the way down.... non issue.

[mossy1200]

Police not knowing why he failed to stop at the time and chose to instead stop him, knocking him off when they spotted an opportunity to cause the least damage to the rider but prevent further chance of endangerment to the public.

Fair call.

Could have been any reason behind failure to stop. Rider choice was to try evade so rider takes risks. He owned the risk and it didn't pay off. Bad Luck.

If the risk for failing to stop was restricted to only riders ability to run then everyone would take the number plate off their bike and enjoy the freedom of lawlessness at other peoples risk not just their own.

[FJRider]

No one was killed.

But ACC will still list it as a Motorcycle accident in their statistics .. :blank:

[FJRider]

If he'd pulled over in the first place as "instructed" to do the whole thing wouldn't have happened. If you are going to run because of a guilty conscience or for shits and giggles... :yawn:

But ... isn't his "Right" to run from the Police ... :scratch:

[ruaphu]

But ... isn't his "Right" to run from the Police ... :scratch:

Yeah an look where it 'LEFT' him?

He's just a dickhead, no doubt the outcome woulda been the same if the half wit had been on four wheels, cept we wouldn't be bitchin about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanB]

Worst thing is the rider will claim ACC for any injury from being knocked off (probably get a 5 year sickness benefit out of it ....) - another ACC motorcycle stat :(

[ruaphu]

Worst thing is the rider will claim ACC for any injury from being knocked off (probably get a 5 year sickness benefit out of it ....) - another ACC motorcycle stat :(

Yeah ya probably right on that AB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mossy1200]

Worst thing is the rider will claim ACC for any injury from being knocked off (probably get a 5 year sickness benefit out of it ....) - another ACC motorcycle stat :(

Did they change the law? I think ACC is no longer an option if injury occurs during a criminal activity. I could be wrong because i am losing smarties every day I survive now.

[p.dath]

Sigh. You don't get any less literal with age, do you?

Your argument was persuasive. But he didn't die. He did fail to stop. I wouldn't want to speculate too much on the rest of the article, as the press often write an article with a point of view than something which is balanced and factual.

Ultimately it was this motorcyclist that contributed towards the colouring issue that you described.

I'm not happy with the Police knocking a parked motorcyclist off his bike - but ultimately it is the motorcyclist himself that I find acted in an unacceptable manner.

The old personal responsibility argument I guess.

[pritch]

Fuck. This incident wasn't worth two threads. Even on KB. :whistle:

[Big Dog]

Maybe I'm a bit simple. It wasn't clear to me weather the police car knocking him over was intentional or accidental.

Intentional as a variation of a PIT manoeuvre I am all for provided it is reasonable to believe he knew he was being stopped. Shit, imagine being a deaf rider...

I feel sad when people doing runners are let go because they drive too fast. The message it sends is of your enough of a cock you can have another go at being one.

No one likes collateral damage but I do wonder how many of today's criminals still would be if we took away the softly softly approach.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

Your argument was persuasive. But he didn't die. He did fail to stop. I wouldn't want to speculate too much on the rest of the article, as the press often write an article with a point of view than something which is balanced and factual.

Ultimately it was this motorcyclist that contributed towards the colouring issue that you described.

I'm not happy with the Police knocking a parked motorcyclist off his bike - but ultimately it is the motorcyclist himself that I find acted in an unacceptable manner.

The old personal responsibility argument I guess.

I didn't suggest he did die. Hence my comment about your literal response.

[Banditbandit]

No No No No.

Just read that article.
He was doing 118 and then took off.

Yeah yeah .. I get that .. my point is that 118 hardly justifies the beat-up language of the news media ...


If you are going to run because of a guilty conscience or for shits and giggles... :yawn:

That was why I did a runner once - for shits and giggles (still got caught anyway ...)


But ACC will still list it as a Motorcycle accident in their statistics .. :blank:


Worst thing is the rider will claim ACC for any injury from being knocked off (probably get a 5 year sickness benefit out of it ....) - another ACC motorcycle stat :(

He was not injured - therefore no ACC claim .. therefore no ACC statistics .. (don't you fuckers read with comprehension ??? Or don't you read?)

[James Deuce]

Maybe I'm a bit simple. It wasn't clear to me weather the police car knocking him over was intentional or accidental.

Intentional as a variation of a PIT manoeuvre I am all for provided it is reasonable to believe he knew he was being stopped. Shit, imagine being a deaf rider...

I feel sad when people doing runners are let go because they drive too fast. The message it sends is of your enough of a cock you can have another go at being one.

No one likes collateral damage but I do wonder how many of today's criminals still would be if we took away the softly softly approach.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Every study into Police chases comes to the same conclusion. Let them go. More people, both Police and innocent bystanders, get hurt than anyone being apprehended. Actively knocking people off motorcycles is utter stupidity. Condoning this as standard practice because the alleged crim did something wrong is a sure sign of a very sick society.

[Big Dog]

Every study into Police chases comes to the same conclusion. Let them go. More people, both Police and innocent bystanders, get hurt than anyone being apprehended. Actively knocking people off motorcycles is utter stupidity. Condoning this as standard practice because the alleged crim did something wrong is a sure sign of a very sick society.

Obviously MFAT agrees with you.
This is a very complicated issue and one that cannot be answered with a blanket policy either way.

I don't support having a set of criteria that a chase is automatically called off. E.g at 150 let them go. If it's that simple it encourages runners to run faster.

I do support frontline officers making the call, or having a set of guidelines beyond which they need approval to continue a pursuit.

Given how often the alleged offender crashes seconds after a chase is called off perhaps all chases should be called off sooner?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[pritch]

The answer to the question, "Why would a cop deliberately knock a guy of a motor bike?" is the same as the answer to the question, "Why does a dog lick his balls?"
The answer is, "Because he can."

[PrincessBandit]

Every study into Police chases comes to the same conclusion. Let them go. More people, both Police and innocent bystanders, get hurt than anyone being apprehended. Actively knocking people off motorcycles is utter stupidity. Condoning this as standard practice because the alleged crim did something wrong is a sure sign of a very sick society.

I don't know that deliberately knocking a motorcyclist off their bike would be considered a standard practice. As pointed out the article didn't indicate whether the action was intentional or not, remember none of us were there so did not witness what happened with our own eyes (had been a large juicy contentious bone in a few threads lately).
Maybe some of our resident cops here could comment on "standard practice" for dealing with two wheeled runners.

[TLDV8]

Evade the Police at high speed while in possession of drugs = Bad Police for chasing that person to a point they exceeded the posted speed limits.

Crash while evading Police = Polices fault due to pushing said person beyond their limits.

Crash and injure ones self = Polices fault due to pushing said person beyond their limits.

Crash and maim or kill member of the public while being chased = Polices fault because they elected to start the chase resulting in pushing said person beyond their limits.

Chase and do not catch person in question = Bad Police for not apprehending imminent threat to the general public based on how far the Police pushed the chase speed against the conditions at the time.

Push said person off motorcycle while it is stationary which might be regarded as the safest time to end said chase with minimum risk to all parties = Bad Police, what if said motorcycle had fallen onto panel or other part of public funded Police car resulting in costly repairs.

You know the world is !@#$ed when a innocent until proven guilty citizen is goaded into a chase by the Police, that's what happened, right ?

[PrincessBandit]

...... Bad Police for chasing that person to a point they exceeded the posted speed limits.

...= Polices fault due to pushing said person beyond their limits.

... Polices fault due to pushing said person beyond their limits.

... Polices fault because they elected to start the chase resulting in pushing said person beyond their limits.

... Bad Police for not apprehending imminent threat ...
... Bad Police, what if said motorcycle had fallen onto panel or other part of public funded Police car resulting in costly repairs.

You know the world is !@#$ed when a innocent until proven guilty citizen is goaded into a chase by the Police, that's what happened, right ?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Banditbandit]

You know the world is !@#$ed when a innocent until proven guilty citizen is goaded into a chase by the Police, that's what happened, right ?

No. Said person was guilty of speeding and guilty of possessing illicit drugs. (only the police did not know about the drugs.)

The police knew they were guilty of the first offence ... hence the chase ... the rider did not want the police to find out they were guilty of the second offence ... hence they ran.

As soon as they ran they were guilty of a third offence - failing to stop ... they were not goaded .. they made the choice (as I have done in the past) to run rather than to stop.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I do support frontline officers making the call, or having a set of guidelines beyond which they need approval to continue a pursuit.

The officer at the frontline in a pursuit is not the one who should be making the call to continue. They are too influenced by the moment. The decision to continue is best made by someone with a clear head based on the information being feed back from the front line.

[breakaway]

It's not ok to deliberately knock someone off the bike. It can cause serious injuries and people have died after tipping a bike over while stopped. There's far worst criminals out their than bikers who don't stop. The pursuit should have ended if it became so dangerous that the only option was to knock the bike over with a police vehicle.

What's your point? People have died slipping off their 2-step deck on a rainy morning. They've died (or worse, gotten paralyzed) slippingin the shower. Might as well live in a bubble.

Would you be singing the same tune if this fuckwit had run head on into some innocent party and caused death or other serious injury?

Dumbarse ran from cops, in a place where it was unsafe to do so. He got what was coming to him.

[PrincessBandit]

No. Said person was guilty of speeding and guilty of possessing illicit drugs. (only the police did not know about the drugs.)

The police knew they were guilty of the first offence ... hence the chase ... the rider did not want the police to find out they were guilty of the second offence ... hence they ran.

As soon as they ran they were guilty of a third offence - failing to stop ... they were not goaded .. they made the choice (as I have done in the past) to run rather than to stop.

Oh, I thought his post was a p/t :pinch:

[BlackSheepLogic]

What's your point? People have died slipping off their 2-step deck on a rainy morning. They've died (or worse, gotten paralyzed) slippingin the shower. Might as well live in a bubble

There's a difference between me slipping down a set of stairs and you pushing me down a set of stairs.

[mossy1200]

There's a difference between me slipping down a set of stairs and you pushing me down a set of stairs.

But if you were standing at the top with a dangerous weapon idd push you down the stairs.

[FJRider]

... He was not injured - therefore no ACC claim .. therefore no ACC statistics .. (don't you fuckers read with comprehension ??? Or don't you read?)

He would have been checked over for any injuries after the accident by a doctor. This is to ensure the riders safety in case at a later stage ... an injury becomes apparent. Such medical checks are kept on record. Thus WILL feature in non-injury MOTORCYCLE accidents.

[Katman]

No. Said person was guilty of speeding and guilty of possessing illicit drugs. (only the police did not know about the drugs.)

The police knew they were guilty of the first offence ... hence the chase ... the rider did not want the police to find out they were guilty of the second offence ... hence they ran.

As soon as they ran they were guilty of a third offence - failing to stop ... they were not goaded .. they made the choice (as I have done in the past) to run rather than to stop.

*whoooosh*

[roogazza]

what , no 140 tolerance ??? bastards !

'Moment of stupidity'
A Hamilton man caught driving at 240kmh says he will never do it again.
STUFF.CO.NZ

[madbikeboy]

I don't know that deliberately knocking a motorcyclist off their bike would be considered a standard practice. As pointed out the article didn't indicate whether the action was intentional or not, remember none of us were there so did not witness what happened with our own eyes (had been a large juicy contentious bone in a few threads lately).
Maybe some of our resident cops here could comment on "standard practice" for dealing with two wheeled runners.

Was there a clarification of standard practice?

[scumdog]

Maybe some of our resident cops here could comment on "standard practice" for dealing with two wheeled runners.

Me?
Give it a squirt to see if the biker will stop, if not I keep going at a slower pace and call ahead to the next unit.
Eventually they fall off the road somewhere between two units.

Down here it can be hard for an 'out of towner' to figure out a place to hide - or to figure out some bends.

And when the constant pressures on they seem to over-shoot/run wide on some bend.

The flattened grass and scrape-marks on the gravel verge points to where they ended up.

Rough on the bike, so far luckily not too rough on the rider...

[Banditbandit]

Me?
Give it a squirt to see if the biker will stop, if not I keep going at a slower pace and call ahead to the next unit.
Eventually they fall off the road somewhere between two units.

Down here it can be hard for an 'out of towner' to figure out a place to hide - or to figure out some bends.

And when the constant pressures on they seem to over-shoot/run wide on some bend.

The flattened grass and scrape-marks on the gravel verge points to where they ended up.

Rough on the bike, so far luckily not too rough on the rider...

And not rough on you either ...

[Tazz]

what , no 140 tolerance ??? bastards !

'Moment of stupidity'
A Hamilton man caught driving at 240kmh says he will never do it again.
STUFF.CO.NZ

Damn straight! He wants to hit 299 now. 240 is old hat :laugh:

[BlackSheepLogic]

'Moment of stupidity'
A Hamilton man caught driving at 240kmh says he will never do it again.
STUFF.CO.NZ

I thought the suspension would be longer than 9 months. I thought getting clocked at that speed would remove your license and have to resit it when allowed. Good to know they don't impound the vehicle here.

[madbikeboy]

Damn straight! He wants to hit 299 now. 240 is old hat :laugh:

Pffft. Slow old car, not sure you could get a stock Falcon to do that (unless gravity and a Hercules were involved). 299 is a magic number to GSXR owners, that's where the speedo stops, and then you watch the revs bend another 1000 RPM past that…