Asian motorcycle culture observations

[rastuscat]

Just back from 3 weeks visiting Hong Kong, Vietnam (various cities), Thailand and Singapore.

I paid particular attention to the motorcycle culture, and the contrast between the developed countries, and the developing ones. Singapore is the most developed, Hong Kong is next, Thailand follows that, and Vietnam varies between developed and developing. E.G. Hanoi is lagging Saigon, aka Ho Chi Minh City.

It's interesting to contrast the country which have been at war most recently, being Vietnam, and Singapore, which hasn't wasted money on a war since the Malay conflict back more than 50 years.

I have lots of motorcycle pics from Thailand and Vietnam, but bugger all of HK and Singapore, as those places have all replaced their motorcycle culture with cars, as they have become richer. Mores the pity, as the roads have become more and more congested since the bikes started to disappear. Even in Thailand, which still has a motorcycle focus, the roads are totally blocked with cars for several hours each day.

There's an irony there. I was last in Bangkok 10 years ago, and there were more bikes back then. Most families could only afford a bike, so that was the standard. These days, it appears most families now have cars, or that's the way it appears from the congestion on the road. Just think what space 100 motorcycles need compared to 100 bikes.

On reflection, I think it's a pity that cars are being preferred. I recall buying my first bike in 1982, a CB250N, because cars were beyond most young folki back then. The Japanese imports changed all that in 1985 (ish), and I believe that was the start of the decline in bikes in NZ. Bikes here have become a novelty, a luxury even.

I also looked at the enforcement bikes and culture in Asia. The Popos get cool bikes in some places, but seriously naff ones in others. I wouldn't want to be a motorcycle Popo in any of those places. I even saw an R1200RT-P in Bangkpk, those most of the Popos there were on Honda 650s. Mrs Cat eventually called me a stalker for taking pics of the Popos, so I gave it away.

Interested in whatever your views on the changing culture in developing countries, and particularly in Godzone.

BTW, I finally saw the bike book on NZ bike culture a bloke did a couple of years back. I was flicking through a book in the bargain bin at Te Warehouse. Saw myself. Cringe. Had to get a copy, just for old times sake. It'll be a good read at my funeral.

[TLDV8]

I have lots of motorcycle pics from Thailand and Vietnam, but bugger all of HK and Singapore, as those places have all replaced their motorcycle culture with cars, as they have become richer.

No different to the UK and Europe after the war, motorcycles gave the possibility of transport, just transport nothing else.

[Blackbird]

When we were in Vietnam 4 years ago, bikes were simple people and goods movers. (A couple of photos attached by way of example!). Back in the 90's which was our last time in Bali, there was a bit of a bike culture. Saw a few big ones owned by locals but lots of smaller ones which had been customised to look like race bikes. At one pavement garage, we saw one guy rolling and welding up an expansion chamber from sheet steel. Looked terrific but there probably wasn't much science behind it :lol:

[BlackSheepLogic]

There's an irony there. I was last in Bangkok 10 years ago, and there were more bikes back then. Most families could only afford a bike, so that was the standard. These days, it appears most families now have cars, or that's the way it appears from the congestion on the road. Just think what space 100 motorcycles need compared to 100 bikes.

I spent quit a while in Egypt and weeks would go by without seeing a bike. The driving in Egypt was chaotic with very little traffic enforcement. Unbelievable amount of congestion virtually around the clock where bikes could have lessened the congestion for sure. But riding a bike was strongly discouraged due to the very high risks on lawless roads with almost zero policing.

Much as the police get criticized for the traffic enforcement they do, the average Joe Bloggs has no concept of what our roads would be like if it were not for the traffic enforcement.

[swbarnett]

On reflection, I think it's a pity that cars are being preferred. I recall buying my first bike in 1982, a CB250N, because cars were beyond most young folki back then.
My first bike (also in 1982) was a CB125T. I had it for a year before upgrading to a CB250N. For me it was more about parking at Uni.


The Japanese imports changed all that in 1985 (ish), and I believe that was the start of the decline in bikes in NZ.
Definitely. In Auckland I watched bike shop after bike shop go bust over the decade or two after that.


Bikes here have become a novelty, a luxury even.
What we need is for more people to see them as a serious alternative for primary transport. I honestly think the fact that I use a bike more than 99% of the time keeps me sane (although some may disagree with my appraisal of my mental state).

[rastuscat]

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Just one that causes me amusement.

[rastuscat]

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Motorcycle courier, Hanoi.

Check out the guy on the opposing lane too.

[rastuscat]

Must upload some to YouTube. Took some mad vids too.

[caspernz]

Bit like how in Europe a Merc or Beemer can be just a taxi like Holden or Ford is over here, basic transport changes as affluence improves huh?

Give it another ten years and fewer bikes will be seen in some parts of Asia.

The biker culture book was a good read though, nothing wrong with a snapshot in time...even if the tone of the book was a bit cheesy.

[Smifffy]

A memory that sticks with me was seeing a family of 5 on a 125'ish commuter bike. Dad was driving, with boy about 5 in front of him on the tank, slightly older daughter sitting behind him, and Mum behind her, sitting side saddle, holding a baby in one arm, and an umbrella in the other hand.

[FJRider]

Must upload ....

See your lawyer ... regarding divorce costs first ... :innocent:

[Ocean1]

China, numbers of bikes varies, lots, depending on local conditions / rules. Flat rural towns usually means almost exclusively bicycles for example. You could drive for days and not see a motorbike, pull into a new town and they'd be everywhere.

Larger cities small bikes and scooters are common simply because they've reached a threshold where more cars simply couldn't move.

In Guilin every teenager has an electric scooter. Extension cords tangled all over the sidewalks.

Biggest bikes I saw on the road were in Beijing, actual Honda 250 cop bikes.

[rastuscat]

In Saigon they are planning to ban motorised vehicles from the central city, except for tourist vehicles, goods service vehicles and the like. They are hoping it will become far more cycle and pedestrian dominated.

[Voltaire]

In Saigon they are planning to ban motorised vehicles from the central city, except for tourist vehicles, goods service vehicles and the like. They are hoping it will become far more cycle and pedestrian dominated.

Saigon ...pedestrian friendly, good luck with that.
Vietnam is an awesome place, rode from Saigon to Hanoi, 3600 km of mayhem and WOW.:woohoo:

[The End]

Many a time did I see people transporting furniture such as tables, chairs and matresses on scooters...

Not to mention the amount of children (<5 years old) not wearing helmets and holding on to mum and dad...

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In Saigon they are planning to ban motorised vehicles from the central city, except for tourist vehicles, goods service vehicles and the like. They are hoping it will become far more cycle and pedestrian dominated.

Was told to just walk out and continue at a moderate pace and the scooters will ride around you. Took a few goes to get used to, but after doing it for a while it became like second nature. If you stop or hesitate in the middle of the road, that is when accidents happen.

[R650R]

My first bike FZR250R Exup was bought in 93, influenced by polytech mates with bikes and it being a cheaper option at the time than the desired first choice of a Mk4 Cortina with mags. Prob better I got the bike as my first crash (wakeup call) ended up being low speed affair at 45k on a country road. One would expect that a testosterone induced crash would have eventuated with the Cortina if I'd got it and who knows the results and casualty list??? Imports at the time then still weren't anything special or easily accessed, well in HB anyway.

Overseas obsevations. Firstly in the UK the general acceptance of joe public mostly as motorbikers being equally valuable road users and members of society, none of this temporary citizen snobbery rubbish we get over here. And of course the higher standards of training and testing.

Holiday in Italy for three weeks, bikes everywhere and a culture of tooting for awareness instead of roadrage, never saw single accident despite being in main centres and covering lot of ground.

[BlackSheepLogic]

What we need is for more people to see them as a serious alternative for primary transport. I honestly think the fact that I use a bike more than 99% of the time keeps me sane (although some may disagree with my appraisal of my mental state).

Much as I really like going for a ride on my bike, I don't enjoy riding the bike in the city or in congested traffic. A small bike for me would be too limiting. Much as scooters are made fun of, they are cheap and very effective in city traffic. With there "easy more novice friendly" image they could go a long way towards increasing the use of bikes over cars.

The adoption rate of scooters here is small compared to say Europe. Their "girl/gay image" in NZ I'm sure plays a large part in the low adoption rate we have in NZ. I do see some underpowered mopeds around but unless you live very close to work it's hard to see them as alternative transport.

[pritch]

I recently sold my moped as since I retired I wasn't using it, just paying rego every three months. I have struck the "girlie" image thing here, but only from the type of rider that you'd suspect of harbouring such a view.

A significant percentage of riders of large and powerful machinery also own a scooter. You can't beat a scooter in heavy traffic - once you learn the skills required .:devil2:

[R650R]

I'm seeing heaps of scooters about these days. If anything is a disincentive its probably the high cost (at a bike dealer - novices aren't likely to buy first helmet off net) of helmets and a protective jacket n gloves.

I'd say a very small minority of potential users would be worried about looking girly or gay and its the first time I've ever heard scooters described in such way. I'm restoring an old 50's moped and the chick friends that have seen it so far think its way cool.
Sounds bit like the 'glamour' linehaul scene where many think how shiney their rig and how far they drive is a measure of a man...
Been there and done all that and now 'downgraded' to a 280HP jappa. And my new employers health and safety policy means I'm not even allowed to work to my maximum hours.
But I'm home every night and know i'll be home and when I'm working next along with a paycheck healthier than many linehaul drivers.

[swbarnett]

Much as I really like going for a ride on my bike, I don't enjoy riding the bike in the city or in congested traffic.
I ride mine from Tuakau to Auckland CBD daily. Being in Tuakau the first part is pretty devoid of traffic and there are plenty of back roads to take. This certainly helps me put up with the traffic when I see it. Of course, working flexible hours helps. I usually don't leave home until after 9am and and work until after 6pm so the traffic's not as bad as it could be.

Even if the above were not the case I still think commuting by bike is far superior to going by car. When I lived in Mairangi Bay My stress levels dropped considerably when I moved from car to bike.


A small bike for me would be too limiting.
No need for a "small" bike. Even with panniers I seldom find traffic I can't split.

[rastuscat]

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The local Gendarmes in Bangkok are quite proactive.

[rastuscat]

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Khao San Rd, Bangkok, from memory. Donuts appear to be the Popo flavour of the day here too.

[Racing Dave]

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Khao San Rd, Bangkok, from memory. Donuts appear to be the Popo flavour of the day here too.

I see he's riding a Boxer - my boxer has cylinders (two of them) and they stick out the sides!

[rastuscat]

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Even the Chermans made it to Khao San Road, Bangkok.

[RDJ]

Much as the police get criticized for the traffic enforcement they do, the average Joe Bloggs has no concept of what our roads would be like if it were not for the traffic enforcement.

Respectfully disagree. Have ridden and driven in very many countries over the last close-to-40 years, it has always seemed to me that the major determinants of road safety are (1) the national culture (esp. whether it's the will of some imaginary friend in the sky as to if you are going to crash or not - ditto regarding preventative maintenance, seatbelt use, crash helmet use); (2) road engineering, especially where roads intersect; and (3) whether the enforcement arm takes their cue from law and logic, or politicians (and by politicians I primarily mean the police force's politicians, not their alleged civilian parliamentary/government masters). I offer up your consideration the examples of Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, New York, Texas, Egypt, Sydney, Queensland.

[JimO]

china is full of scooters, the cunts are everywhere

[Scubbo]

india, KTMs are cheap as chips by our standards, though their Duke is a 200cc ;o

[bgd]

Sg has little or no bike culture. There are different local and expat groups but nothing you'd notice. The majority of scooters on the road are Malaysian workers who travel over daily. Motorbikes lost favour as transport as Singapore became wealthy. Cars are the status symbol, bikes are for the poor.

It's interesting that most Singaporeans can't afford a car - cheapest new car is over $100K - but don't generally move to bikes, probably because the public transport is so good. Bikes have also recently become more expensive as the COE (every vehicle needs one, lasts for 10 years) has risen to $4K from $1K (cars are about $65K) which pushes bikes further out of reach. Despite appearances, the bulk of the population survives on under 25K per year.

Malaysia, on the other hand, is quite different. It seems that kids start riding from an early age so there is a real scooter/small bike culture. They really do like their bikes. I've had lots of conversations around bikes over there. Even had one lady chat me up because she liked my bike, wife on pillion stopped that going any further. :msn-wink:

[RDJ]

Darn, that COE increase is really an impact on Singapore motorcyclists. When I was on assignment in there from 2004, I bought a 2002 Dyna with 41K on the clock (that's 41 km not 40,000 kilometres...) for 18,000 Singapore, and the COE on top of that was (them only) 254 SGD with of course no ACC equivalent - but mandatory insurance. It was my daily commute for seven years (cars being unaffordable for the reasons you describe) and now it's home with me in NZ. It was interesting to see the reactions from locals and fellow foreigners alike when I said that the motorcycle was my daily transport, immediate "perceived status" downgrade :rolleyes: