The French solution to the S.U.V. problem...

[jazbug5]

Wonder if the law in NZ would allow for this..? (http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68809,00.html?tw=wn_8culthead)

[froggyfrenchman]

Good to see my brethren are leading the world foward....
Who am i kidding, im not atcualy french

[Sniper]

Include me in. I'll start a movement in CHCH, who wants to follow :devil2:

[myvice]

As much as I don’t like the things I couldn’t do that to someone’s vehicle.
Would piss me off if it happened to me caus someone didn’t like the noise of my bike or bikes in general.

[badlieutenant]

that would work. Only thing is how many of them would drive away unaware that they had flat tyres and then have an accident ?? you would really hope they noticed the flyers

[Aitch]

I don't like your car, so I 'll let your tyres down.....what next? SUV owners don't like bikes so they push em over?
Get a life silly Frogs!

[oldrider]

Why don't they just mind their own fucking business. What about freedom of choice. Nosy bloody do gooders make me sick. Next it will be them telling us not to ride bikes!!! That will just not do! Pissed off, John. Fuck them again. :argh:

[Ixion]

Any dickhead tried that on me, I can tell you EXACTLY where that bicycle pump would end up.

[bumsex]

People are very short sighted these days...
While every motor vehicle contributes to pollution, think about the needless excess that this group of motorists contribute.
The environment is gonna be fucked soon and someone has to do something about it...

[Timber020]

A small stone put under the valve cap lets em down pretty well.


Is it illegal here?

[bumsex]

Probably. but only if you get caught.

[**R1**]

Fucken greeny's, i ride my bike for fun, so duz that mean some fuckwit greeny is going to let my tyres down for wasting gas? fucken french twats, if i caught the fucker i would deflate hisretarded head.

[Pathos]

my thoughts exactly

Only thing thats going to help the environment is a movement away from gas.

The extra pollution caused by SUV's is very little.

[bumsex]

Think about it though...these vehicles (SUVs) are bing used in place of a car and use a fuckload more gas to do the same job. Essentially they are a status symbol.

[Ixion]

Think about it though...these vehicles (SUVs) are bing used in place of a car and use a fuckload more gas to do the same job. Essentially they are a status symbol.

Just so. Similar way to TL1000's being used in place of a scooter and using a fuckload more gas to do the same job

[**R1**]

Think about it though...these vehicles (SUVs) are bing used in place of a car and use a fuckload more gas to do the same job. Essentially they are a status symbol.whats wrong with status symbols? as i have got better at riding i have bought better bikes to display my riding status...and i have a hilux that uses fuck all gas but people seem to think that because its a 4x4 it uses heaps, my bike would go through 3times the gas of my truck and i use that for doing wheelies and going for rides...and you seem to think that becoz i can afford the cars and bikes i want i should have my tyres let down?? come off it..im sure if some one gave you a v10 viper you would take it for a blast....if not your a retard..

[Macktheknife]

I have noticed that any kind of stupidity can be justified on the basis of someones opinion about wastage, I believe the nazis used that argument too. Seriously though, no one has the right to do damage or harm to anothers property because of philosophical differences. law #104 Thou shalt not fuck with my vehicle!

[Jackrat]

Think about it though...these vehicles (SUVs) are bing used in place of a car and use a fuckload more gas to do the same job. Essentially they are a status symbol.

That's bloody rich coming from a TL owner. :weird:

[bumsex]

Yeah I may have made too many genralisations there. Sorry guys

But is it really all that stupid? Cool if you own a 4x4 Aaron. Whats not cool is (in my opinion) SUVs/4x4s being bought just because they are perceived as cool. A lot of them will never be used for their intended perpose (off roading/towing). Bikes as status symbols are okay by me. I ride mine hard and it uses bugger all gas but these gas guzzling monsters are (disproportionatly) contributing to an increase in fucking up our environment.

I don't like this.

[bumsex]

I have noticed that any kind of stupidity can be justified on the basis of someones opinion about wastage, I believe the nazis used that argument too. Seriously though, no one has the right to do damage or harm to anothers property because of philosophical differences. law #104 Thou shalt not fuck with my vehicle!

It's not just the wastage its the damage to the environment (i'm not a tree fucker)

[bumsex]

R1Aaron:and you seem to think that becoz i can afford the cars and bikes i want i should have my tyres let down?? come off it..im sure if some one gave you a v10 viper you would take it for a blast....if not your a retard..[/QUOTE]

I think that it's cool to enjoy your money but when it adversely affects other people (via damage to environment) then its not cool.

[bumsex]

Just so. Similar way to TL1000's being used in place of a scooter and using a fuckload more gas to do the same job

Guilty there.

[Karma]

One of the major hangups I have with the 4x4s (and this may just be in the uk) is that they seem to be bought by middle class familys so that the mother can run the kids to school without fearing for her life.

They justify these cars by saying things like "It's got a five star safety rating" etc.. but you should see the roads around the primary schools at 9am and 4pm, 4x4s everywhere. Do these people not realise that anyone in the 4x4 is safer, but the 4x4 itself makes everyone outside it less safe.

How many times have you come to a busy junction and can't see shit coming because some fucken 4x4 is blocking the whole view.

Too many kids have been killed around schools in the UK either directly, or indirectly because of these things.

My point?

A Volvo is just as safe as a Jeep, but will kill less people if you hit them.

[hazard02]

are they doing the same to those V12 6+ litre ferraris?

[Silage]

Include me in. I'll start a movement in CHCH, who wants to follow :devil2:

Well I trust you get out and about today on your bike/car and you don't slide into any ditch or anything cos of the snow and all. On the otherhand I felt perfectly safe in our diesel Isuzu 4x4 that gets about 30mpg (better than the petrol Suzuki Vitara we had previously). :Pokey:

[Lou Girardin]

.and i have a hilux that uses fuck all gas but people seem to think that because its a 4x4 it uses heaps, my bike would go through 3times the gas of my truck ..

So tell us the consumption figures of these miraculous vehicles.

[**R1**]

So tell us the consumption figures of these miraculous vehicles.Miraculous??? what makes them Miraculous?, i know thw R1 gets 9k's per litre and if i use it for work i go through $30-$40 my trucks milage i have know idea but the same travel costs me $9-10, it is deisel tho..but who cares....all i know is the tree fucking hippys would be in for some hurting if they touched my bike or car.

[bumsex]

Miraculous??? what makes them Miraculous?, i know thw R1 gets 9k's per litre and if i use it for work i go through $30-$40 my trucks milage i have know idea but the same travel costs me $9-10, it is deisel tho..but who cares....all i know is the tree fucking hippys would be in for some hurting if they touched my bike or car.

Do you think that concern for the environment makes me a tree hugging hippy?

[**R1**]

Do you think that concern for the environment makes me a tree hugging hippy?No. but if you started letting dwn tyres to save the enviroment, it would make you a fuckwit!!, and it aint going to do shit for the enviroment, just piss people off. if you care about the enviroment, you would be out designing a car that runs off water, not letting dwn tyres, I mean come on lets get real eh!!!

[Lou Girardin]

Miraculous??? what makes them Miraculous?, i know thw R1 gets 9k's per litre and if i use it for work i go through $30-$40 my trucks milage i have know idea but the same travel costs me $9-10, it is deisel tho..but who cares....all i know is the tree fucking hippys would be in for some hurting if they touched my bike or car.

9k's per litre while commuting? Who the hell are you?
Ghost rider?
Do a proper mileage check and if the bike uses more litres than the truck over the same route and same distance, I'll shout you a tank of gas. (for the bike)

[Pixie]

The environment is gonna be fucked soon and someone has to do something about it...
Bullshit,little puppy,The "environment" survived flood lava events,asteroid impacts and many unexplained mass extinction events, and it's still there
Even the human race was reduced to only 7000 individuals at one time.

[bumsex]

No. but if you started letting dwn tyres to save the enviroment, it would make you a fuckwit!!, and it aint going to do shit for the enviroment, just piss people off. if you care about the enviroment, you would be out designing a car that runs off water, not letting dwn tyres, I mean come on lets get real eh!!!

For sure it would make me a fuckwit, but that is not in dispute. I agree that interferring with peoples vehicles will do very little for the environment but it is a start.
I try to do my bit ie. ride pushbike as much as poss.

[bumsex]

Bullshit,little puppy,The "environment" survived flood lava events,asteroid impacts and many unexplained mass extinction events, and it's still there
Even the human race was reduced to only 7000 individuals at one time.

Yes it's true that it is still there (the environment) but this is a man made issue. We are rooting the environment more and more each and every day. There's a good chance that Significant climate change is on it's way which will significantly alter our environment for the worse.

Oh and please don't insult me. It hurts my feelings. :laugh:

Seriously though I am only writing my opinions and not trying to impress or offend anyone so please consider this before you insult me again

[**R1**]

9k's per litre while commuting? Who the hell are you?
Ghost rider?
Do a proper mileage check and if the bike uses more litres than the truck over the same route and same distance, I'll shout you a tank of gas. (for the bike)na not ghost rider, and if i use the bike for commuting it's a tad faster than the truck..and my bike duz only get 9-10k's per L, im sure without even checking my hilux gets better, id bet my bike on it....just ask Biff about how much gas my bike goes through(U might find him a bit more reputable than me??)

[**R1**]

I agree that interferring with peoples vehicles will do very little for the environment but it is a start.
.A start to what???? whould u rather we all dumped our cars in a land fill??? Did you know the average Kiwi produces over 1Ton of landfill per year, if you want to start saving the enviroment perhaps you should remove your self from it... cant believe im arguing with someone that calls them selves "bumsex" FFS.

[bumsex]

A start to what???? whould u rather we all dumped our cars in a land fill??? Did you know the average Kiwi produces over 1Ton of landfill per year, if you want to start saving the enviroment perhaps you should remove your self from it... cant believe im arguing with someone that calls them selves "bumsex" FFS.

A start to reducing and eventually eliminating vehicle emissions. I hope that yes, eventually all peterol powered cars (not bikes: I'm a hypocrite) will be made obsolete (and be dumped) by a more environmentally friendly form of transport.
By the way...lets not make this personal: we're having an intelligent discussion! (it's just a name)

[Lou Girardin]

na not ghost rider, and if i use the bike for commuting it's a tad faster than the truck..and my bike duz only get 9-10k's per L, im sure without even checking my hilux gets better, id bet my bike on it....just ask Biff about how much gas my bike goes through(U might find him a bit more reputable than me??)

Is it carbed or injected? Because that is a shit load of gas to be pouring through it outside a track.

[**R1**]

Is it carbed or injected? Because that is a shit load of gas to be pouring through it outside a track.Carbed, and i know. it isnt standard, and for the perfomance i get out of it, it seems cheap!! a car with the same performance im sure is a lot worse??. and i get about 5k's per L at the track..

[Ghost Lemur]

Not condoning what they do, but I do find it interesting how many of you are offended by what they did, and yet have patted the backs of our very own wing mirror squad.

[zeRax]

sounds pretty economical aaron, not. :O, you must be stations favorite customer

[**R1**]

sounds pretty economical aaron, not. :O, you must be stations favorite customerwhen ya love riding then ya going to have to pay for gas aint ya? when it hits $5 a litre i'll start complaining...till then i couldnt care less as long as there is a station within 170k of my travels....

[**R1**]

A start to reducing and eventually eliminating vehicle emissions. I hope that yes, eventually all peterol powered cars (not bikes: I'm a hypocrite) will be made obsolete (and be dumped) by a more environmentally friendly form of transport.
By the way...lets not make this personal: we're having an intelligent discussion! (it's just a name)Dude I think you need to go back and re-read this thread again!! I mean u dont like harmfull emissions, but its ok to dump old cars in landfill???? and how do you expect to have an intelligent discussion when the topic is clueless morons letting down tyres like little school kids? and the you contridict(SP) what your point is by saying bikes are ok?.....
Here is how i see it, people have this perseption of 4x4's being bad for the enviroment, and bikes being better, when this isnt always the case!! you can fit up2 7 people in some of the newer 4x4's and a max of 2 on a bike, and if the bike happens tobe a 1000 multi, its going to use a fuck site more gas to get the same amount of people from point A to point B, simple so if the hippys want to make some kind of statment that has any credibility they are going to have to start stalking people to see how many people they cart around...Coz to me if some Mum has 3-4 kids and is pregnant and some pimple faced tree fucker has let her tyre down coz he thinks she is fucking the enviroment, and she is out trying to pump up/change tyres thats just FUCKED UP, or do u think she deserves that????? if so you nuffin but a cunt. do you see my point? I dont want the enviroment fucked anymore than you but come on lets come up with real solutions, not just shit that pisses people off or delays people a few minutes..as for only picking on 4x4's how about ya go let down the tyres on black powers v8 falcons, tuff guys, or bite the big one and geniside(SP) anyone that has a 4x4, im sure some Nazi's out there can give u some pointers on where to start..

[scracha]

<snip>
Here is how i see it, people have this perseption of 4x4's being bad for the enviroment, and bikes being better, when this isnt always the case!! you can fit up2 7 people in some of the newer 4x4's and a max of 2 on a bike, and if


I'm not for letting tyres down etc myself but you've missed some vital points.
Firstly 99% of these vehicles journeys are with a solo occupant so you're 7 people comment isn't valid (probably similar number of motorcycle journeys too).
Secondly, people forget about the sheer amount of energy/materials involved in making a vehicle. You're talking several tonnes of waste to make a normal sedan, never mind a 4x4.

The "fuck everyone else I've got my V8" attitude won't get us anywhere. What will happen when 1 billion Chinese/Indian/etc drivers get purchasing power for cars (as they are starting to) and have that attitude?

I'm all for turbo diesel bikes (think of the torque) as an interim measure before we're all zipping about on gearless 200bhp electric motorcycles or summit! :eek:

[bumsex]

[QUOTE=R1Aaron]Dude I think you need to go back and re-read this thread again!! I mean u dont like harmfull emissions, but its ok to dump old cars in landfill???? and how do you expect to have an intelligent discussion when the topic is clueless morons letting down tyres like little school kids? and the you contridict(SP) what your point is by saying bikes are ok?.....
Here is how i see it, people have this perseption of 4x4's being bad for the enviroment, and bikes being better, when this isnt always the case!! you can fit up2 7 people in some of the newer 4x4's and a max of 2 on a bike, and if the bike happens tobe a 1000 multi, its going to use a fuck site more gas to get the same amount of people from point A to point B


See Scratcha's post above.


,...Coz to me if some Mum has 3-4 kids and is pregnant and some pimple faced tree fucker has let her tyre down coz he thinks she is fucking the enviroment, and she is out trying to pump up/change tyres thats just FUCKED UP, or do u think she deserves that????? if so you nuffin but a cunt.


No she does not deserve that.


do you see my point? I dont want the enviroment fucked anymore than you but come on lets come up with real solutions, not just shit that pisses people off or delays people a few minutes..as for only picking on 4x4's


Agreed.


how about ya go let down the tyres on black powers v8 falcons, tuff guys, or bite the big one and geniside(SP) anyone that has a 4x4, im sure some Nazi's out there can give u some pointers on where to start..


hahaha! Fuck that. The mongrel mob/ Black Power run around in Mercedes cars where I am from (Wairoa). Havnt seen many of them in Hams (that's a good thing)

[Lou Girardin]

Activists were burning SUV's in the States recently.
But if someone gives society the finger by unnecessarily driving a selfish vehicle like a 4x4, can you be surprised that some people take strong exception to it?

[Monsterbishi]

Carbed, and i know. it isnt standard, and for the perfomance i get out of it, it seems cheap!! a car with the same performance im sure is a lot worse??. and i get about 5k's per L at the track..

Nice for some, I get about .25k's per L at the track :-( - (ok, so it's a drag car, but we won't mention that)

If I catch a froggy mongrel letting the air out of my SUV, I'll beat them to a pulp, it's that simple, they could make a bigger difference if they went round with their bike pumps and made sure every car they came across had the correct air pressure, since most people run too low and that drinks fuel...

[bumsex]

I've noticed that lots of people like to make threats on this site. Whats with that? Is it to make people think that you are tough?

[Motu]

''A SUV a symbol of wealth?'' - aw shucks,thank you...it's nothing really,but if you guys can't afford $500 for a Pajero I'd say get off the dole and get a real job!

[Sniper]

I've noticed that lots of people like to make threats on this site. Whats with that? Is it to make people think that you are tough?

Just peoples way with words mate. You may very well throw a threat around one day. But most people aren't too fussed.
Any threats from R1Aaron though? Well, Ill let you decide.......... :blink:

[**R1**]

Activists were burning SUV's in the States recently.
But if someone gives society the finger by unnecessarily driving a selfish vehicle like a 4x4, can you be surprised that some people take strong exception to it?So it's a socialist state your after? what ever happened to freedom?? if polution is the problem why not hit the main contributors first? like big industry(or is it easy to attack soccer Mum), they contribute to 85% of the world polution, and 65% of that is from china, perhaps you should start killing off the asians??
Activists were burning SUV's in the States recently. ?Wouldnt expect any less from the tossers, but they dont give a shit about all the oil wells they caused the rag heads to light, and the good old usa birth place of muscle cars.

And whats with this "But if someone gives society the finger by unnecessarily driving a selfish vehicle" I have already said i ride my bike for fun it uses a shit load of gas, I didnt realise i was giving society the big finger.. so i should take up knitting?...I think we are all going to have to agree to dis-agree....i just think there is bigger fish to fry than the poor old 4x4..

[**R1**]

I've noticed that lots of people like to make threats on this site. Whats with that? Is it to make people think that you are tough? like WT says "not if ya back it up"

[**R1**]

Just peoples way with words mate. You may very well throw a threat around one day. But most people aren't too fussed.
Any threats from R1Aaron though? Well, Ill let you decide.......... :blink:Have I threatend some one? im sure they would know if i had:motu: .. I cant see the point of making threats on a forum unless you are in the same city...like you Sniper:nya:

[Sniper]

Have I threatend some one? im sure they would know if i had:motu: .. I cant see the point of making threats on a forum unless you are in the same city...like you Sniper:nya:

Nah, you didn't threaten anyone. I just know you are bigger than me. So Im nice to you because of that. :laugh: Besides, Im fairly sure you know where I live too. :eek5:

[jahrasti]

Activists were burning SUV's in the States recently.
But if someone gives society the finger by unnecessarily driving a selfish vehicle like a 4x4, can you be surprised that some people take strong exception to it?

I have just sold a 4x4 (not because of the price of petrol) I used it for towing things and mostly 4x4ing. Now because it was mine and my misses has her own car am i a wanker for driving it around by myself? because it was a modern truck when it was muddy as fuck people would laugh at it and people didnt class it as a gas guzzler .Also it was awesome for going up the mountain to go snowboarding as it would fit all the kit and the boys in it.I believe we need to look after the enviroment and the japs (mazda) are moving ahead with Hydrogen fuel which has zero emissions. I am just trying to say that we cant blame people for buying these vehicles it may have another use than just dropping off kids at school, should we expect them to buy a small car for all of that stuff.You then have rego,wof,insuranse etc,etc.

[bumsex]

I have just sold a 4x4 (not because of the price of petrol) I used it for towing things and mostly 4x4ing. Now because it was mine and my misses has her own car am i a wanker for driving it around by myself? because it was a modern truck when it was muddy as fuck people would laugh at it and people didnt class it as a gas guzzler .Also it was awesome for going up the mountain to go snowboarding as it would fit all the kit and the boys in it.I believe we need to look after the enviroment and the japs (mazda) are moving ahead with Hydrogen fuel which has zero emissions. I am just trying to say that we cant blame people for buying these vehicles it may have another use than just dropping off kids at school, should we expect them to buy a small car for all of that stuff.You then have rego,wof,insuranse etc,etc.

Fair enough.

[Motu]

If they still made the 48 Merc we wouldn't need no stinkin' 4x4s and De Licka vans.The ''house'' could do it all.

''I Wanna Live in a Maori Car.''

[Lou Girardin]

It's interesting that everyone defending 4x4's has a justification for using them. Which is well and good. But the problem is evident everyday outside schools, in Aucklands gridlock and generally being a pain in the arse because of their size. There is nothing a 4x4 will do in a city that a sedan or station wagon couldn't do better and use fewer resources to do so.
How did people cope with towing, skiing, and all the things 4x4's are supposedly indispensible for before they became so common?
At least in Europe there are disincentives to drive these things, but in the US and NZ it's the other way around. Sheer madness.
If you want to drive a lumbering, smokey, mobile roadblock that's fine, but don't expect to be liked for it.

[Ixion]

It's interesting that everyone defending 4x4's has a justification for using them. Which is well and good. But the problem is evident everyday outside schools, in Aucklands gridlock and generally being a pain in the arse because of their size. There is nothing a 4x4 will do in a city that a sedan or station wagon couldn't do better and use fewer resources to do so.
How did people cope with towing, skiing, and all the things 4x4's are supposedly indispensible for before they became so common?
At least in Europe there are disincentives to drive these things, but in the US and NZ it's the other way around. Sheer madness.
If you want to drive a lumbering, smokey, mobile roadblock that's fine, but don't expect to be liked for it.

They used honking great V8 station wagons. Which have now become rare.

So, tell me. My Pajero has a 2.6L petrol motor. Same one that's in the Mitsi Magna station wagon, and a few other of their cars. So how is that motor, in the Pajero, doing anything worse to the environment than the same motor in a car or station wagon?

And why is a 5 litre V8 station wagon no problem for the environment , but the 2.6 litre Pajero is destroying the environment ? Hm ?

And why is the 4WD a "mobile roadblock" but all the trucks vans and stationwagons aren't? Hm?. People movers are usually BIGGER than 4WDs. How come they ain't "mobile roadblocks"? Let alone Ford Transits.

Not disputing that there's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive SUVs. Sure are. There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive station wagons.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive people movers.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive ordinary ole cars. SOME unfriendly people might claim that here's an awful lot of incompetant prats ride motorcycles .

[bumsex]

like WT says "not if ya back it up"

Hey Aaron who's WT?

[Motu]

Zigactly! - My XC Coon S/W was freakin' huge! We would roam parking buildings looking for a spot that could take the Coon,forget parallel parking,it was longer than the space allowd,the 6 cyl motor used more fuel than the V8.(I had a XC Fairmont too) The Pajero takes more people,although not the same load space when you do,much more manoeverable,and uses less of a cheaper fuel...tiz a no brainer man.

[bumsex]

They used honking great V8 station wagons. Which have now become rare.

So, tell me. My Pajero has a 2.6L petrol motor. Same one that's in the Mitsi Magna station wagon, and a few other of their cars. So how is that motor, in the Pajero, doing anything worse to the environment than the same motor in a car or station wagon?

That same motor has more mass that it needs to propel, therefore it is working harder and emitting more gasses.

And why is a 5 litre V8 station wagon no problem for the environment , but the 2.6 litre Pajero is destroying the environment ? Hm ?

Who said that 5litre V8 s/wagons are no prob? All vehicles are poisoning the environment


And why is the 4WD a "mobile roadblock" but all the trucks vans and stationwagons aren't? Hm?. People movers are usually BIGGER than 4WDs. How come they ain't "mobile roadblocks"? Let alone Ford Transits.

The other vehicles mentioned in this paragraph are mainly used for industrial purposes (not as everyday run about vehicles for the gen pop.) They are mobile roadblocks because there always seems to be one blocking your line of sight.

Not disputing that there's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive SUVs. Sure are. There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive station wagons.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive people movers.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive ordinary ole cars. SOME unfriendly people might claim that here's an awful lot of incompetant prats ride motorcycles .

So what? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Do you care what I think about you? cos I don't really give a shit. (not meaning to be offensive)

[Monsterbishi]

I've noticed that lots of people like to make threats on this site. Whats with that? Is it to make people think that you are tough?

Well, do you think I'm not 'tough'? I gave up caring what people think years ago, makes being honest much easier.

[Lou Girardin]

Not disputing that there's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive SUVs. Sure are. There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive station wagons.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive people movers.There's an awful lot of incompetant prats drive ordinary ole cars. SOME unfriendly people might claim that here's an awful lot of incompetant prats ride motorcycles .

The difference between 4x4's and the vehicles mentioned is sheer numbers and/or the fact that, even when parked they are a curse. Ever tried to back out of an angle park with a 4x4 to your left?

Then there was the car park for the Home Show on Saturday. Picture 2 or 3 rows of hulking 4x4's parked on the flat part of the grass and on the steepest part of the slope was a 2wd car. :tugger: s

[bumsex]

Well, do you think I'm not 'tough'? I gave up caring what people think years ago, makes being honest much easier.

I don't know you. Do you think I care? I am just sick of the "if______ does that or this I'll____" comments

[Motu]

The difference between 4x4's and the vehicles mentioned is sheer numbers and/or the fact that, even when parked they are a curse.

Wot? Before 4x4s do you think Falcons,Holdens,Valiants,Super Snipes,Jaguars,Damilers,48 Mercs and Chev Fleetmasters weren't common? Shift out of Kohi to South Auckland and have a look at who is in Pajeros,Delica's,Bongo's,Surfs and Teranno's - they's full of big fat Coconuts and Maori,the socioeconomic group that needed 48 Mercs and Falcon Stationwagons now needs big people movers,they have no money to maintain them and they belch black smoke and go slow - your Kohi Mum and kids has a nice Territory that's well maintained and keeps up with traffic.Come down to Mt Roskill on a school morning sometime - 3 schools on one site,the traffic is kaos and grid lock.....but not caused by 4x4s,but stupid Asians who bought their licence for a bargin price without having to sit it,they stop in the middle of the road to let kids out,comb their hair and check the lunch box,then do a U turn in traffic without looking.

[Lou Girardin]

That's why they're called Remuera tractors, not Roskill.

[Jantar]

Think about it though...these vehicles (SUVs) are bing used in place of a car and use a fuckload more gas to do the same job. Essentially they are a status symbol.

Wrong!!! I used my SUV to get to work this morning because my bike just couldn't handle the amount of snow on the ground. :doh: