More price-gouging in NZ

[Blackbird]

There have been some lengthy threads about overseas vs local purchases but thought I’d give an up to date example of price differences for non-motorcycle stuff.

I have a Sony DSC RX100 camera which is just over a year old. Fantastic camera which has exceeded my expectations. Unfortunately, I knocked it off the bike seat a couple of weeks ago and although it was in a padded case, it returned an error message when I switched it on and couldn't use it

Rang Sony NZ but got what I assume was a call centre out of the country. They advised me to send it to the authorised service centre in Auckland. Did that and 3 days later, got a diagnostic report that the lens assembly and associated electronics needed replacement. The part alone, excluding GST was $344. More than expected but authorised them to go ahead as I wanted it back fast.

The next day, I logged onto eBay to see whether I could find what the price of the part was overseas and just about choked as it varied between US$75 and US$90, plus postage! I’m not sure I’d have had the competence or tools to do the replacement myself but was really pissed off about the price difference.

Rang the service centre back and they were very apologetic but said they were obliged to buy the part through Sony NZ. Rang Sony NZ and asked how they could justify the mark-up. Predictably, the conversation was marketing-speak but the guts of the reply was “because we can”.

I’ve said before that where an added value component or service is part of the deal, I’ll try and shop in NZ but not where it’s blatant price-gouging.

[Edbear]

Agree, it's a long time issue, but the more people who make a fuss, the more likely they will listen, especially if it get to the news media... :shutup:

[pritch]

Another unhappy Sony owner. Mine stopped working and reported "access error". So I Googled that and there's screeds on it. Some people took their camera to the beach after which they got the dreaded access error. Mine hasn't been to the beach. The problem is apparently that there is grit or something stuck between the lens and its housing which prevents the lens coming out.

The usual recomendation is that you bang the camera on a table to shake the offending material out. I'm only prepared to take that so far because the lens is quite a long way down a plastic tube and I can see that ending in tears.

This camera was purchased for the first of my trips to Phillip Island and I don't see me needing anything so sophisticated again. I'll use the iPod or the phone or...
If I do buy another camera though it won't be a Sony.

[Mike.Gayner]

Agree, it's a long time issue, but the more people who make a fuss, the more likely they will listen, especially if it get to the news media... :shutup:

I don't bother making a fuss any more, just quietly buy from overseas.

[Paul in NZ]

Look I hear ya... But - its never that simple.

Despite the apparent gouging you can burn $$ very fast on stuff like that. We supplied TV's and flat panels for yonks and people call up for a remote control. Look we just cant afford to hold spare remotes for every bloody screen (although there are commonalities) as the warehousing costs very quickly add up so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise and the most we would add is 10% but usually just pass them on at cost... Not usually many takers...

Holding spares for every camera - yikes....

[jasonu]

I don't bother making a fuss any more, just quietly buy from overseas.

That is the New Zealand way. Say nothing and don't do back. The yanks are more likely to say summat at the time of shitty service or product which adds to the 'loud mouth yank' reputation.

[Mike.Gayner]

Look I hear ya... But - its never that simple.

Despite the apparent gouging you can burn $$ very fast on stuff like that. We supplied TV's and flat panels for yonks and people call up for a remote control. Look we just cant afford to hold spare remotes for every bloody screen (although there are commonalities) as the warehousing costs very quickly add up so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise and the most we would add is 10% but usually just pass them on at cost... Not usually many takers...

Holding spares for every camera - yikes....

When you can air freight a part individually for a fraction of the cost and given the same lead time, someone is taking the piss.

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130826568]Look I hear ya... But - its never that simple.

so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise QUOTE]

But freight cost for a remote control from Japan or Aussie to NZ shouldn't be much more than $20. Or is someone adding a 'packing and handling' fee on top of the actual freight cost?

[Big Dog]

Another unhappy Sony owner. Mine stopped working and reported "access error". So I Googled that and there's screeds on it. Some people took their camera to the beach after which they got the dreaded access error. Mine hasn't been to the beach. The problem is apparently that there is grit or something stuck between the lens and its housing which prevents the lens coming out.

The usual recomendation is that you bang the camera on a table to shake the offending material out. I'm only prepared to take that so far because the lens is quite a long way down a plastic tube and I can see that ending in tears.

This camera was purchased for the first of my trips to Phillip Island and I don't see me needing anything so sophisticated again. I'll use the iPod or the phone or...
If I do buy another camera though it won't be a Sony.

Dry air. If you have a compressor with a water filter give it a few short sharp blasts. Go for about a 45 degree angle where possible.
Avoid long blasts as this may cause condensation and the benefit is in the higher pressure of the first 1/2 second.

If your lens is cloudy when done you use too much air or did not have a water trap. Put it in a warm dry place with the lens vertical.

If you sent it to a repairer that would be their first course of action.
Otherwise canned air works almost as
Well.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Voltaire]

That is the New Zealand way. Say nothing and don't do back. The yanks are more likely to say summat at the time of shitty service or product which adds to the 'loud mouth yank' reputation.

The how come there are so many McDonalds, Burger Kings, KFC around:innocent:

[bogan]

Somewhat related as the shop is a bit gougey. I got treated like a liar the other day when I went to exchange a workshop consumable which had obviously been pre-fucked before getting sold to me.

Spent around 3k at that shop this year, being given shit for the return of a busted 10 dollar part doesn't bode well for the rest of the year's spending with them...

[jasonu]

The how come there are so many McDonalds, Burger Kings, KFC around:innocent:

I am not sure what your point is.

[Blackbird]

When you can air freight a part individually for a fraction of the cost and given the same lead time, someone is taking the piss.

Yep, international logistics these days means that you don't have to hold significant inventory. I might as well add the other step I omitted for the sake of brevity. I wrote on the Sony NZ Facebook site about their price gouging and got this reply "Hi Geoff - Thanks for reaching out to us here about your spare part enquiry. We'd like to have one of our Sony Spare Parts team work with you directly to get things back on track with your RX100 repair. Just to clarify, have you been dealing with Sony Support directly on this one? " I sent all the details to them and 2 days later, got a reply that parts were regionally priced and they couldn't be of help. Annoyed the crap out of me and I noticed that they'd used almost identical wording for someone who was complaining about a laptop.

[Big Dog]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130826568]Look I hear ya... But - its never that simple.

so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise QUOTE]

But freight cost for a remote control from Japan or Aussie to NZ shouldn't be much more than $20. Or is someone adding a 'packing and handling' fee on top of the actual freight cost?

Each person in the chain adds their markup. Being a cannon dealer cost money, being the distributer / approved repairer costs a lot of money.
I have repaired a few cameras mostly not for a job though, my fingers are too fat, but pretty much anything younger than me is mostly units pre assembled and then jammed into a body. Almost all parts post 1990 are intended to be FRU. Full Replacement Units.
Some fancy bits also need reprogramming to accept the new part. Less so post 2000.
Almost all will require some specialist tools unless you have the hands of a surgeon and a fair amount o luck. Bits that snap into joiners that are behind another part to connect a ribbon connector are common as compact is king.
As for the specialist tools for locating these ribbons. Worse than computer tools and model specific.
Training and tools cost a lot to keep current.

All these things add up. I've taken the punt on a few fixes myself. I've done a few for friends. Mostly because of the poor factor.
Done a few at a camera shop I worked at in the 90's.

All were with the expressed: this will either fix it or fuck it completely guarantee.
So far the score is around 20 successes to 1 fail.
Nothing quite like hearing a Nikon fail to start that was starting before but not taking pictures.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Voltaire]

I am not sure what your point is.

Just remembering when there were good burger bars around and now I rarely buy a burger as they are horrible, I should have complained more.:yes:

[jasonu]

Each person in the chain adds their markup. Being a cannon dealer cost money, being the distributer / approved repairer costs a lot of money.
I have repaired a few cameras mostly not for a job though, my fingers are too fat, but pretty much anything younger than me is mostly units pre assembled and then jammed into a body. Almost all parts post 1990 are intended to be FRU. Full Replacement Units.
Some fancy bits also need reprogramming to accept the new part. Less so post 2000.
Almost all will require some specialist tools unless you have the hands of a surgeon and a fair amount o luck. Bits that snap into joiners that are behind another part to connect a ribbon connector are common as compact is king.
As for the specialist tools for locating these ribbons. Worse than computer tools and model specific.
Training and tools cost a lot to keep current.

All these things add up. I've taken the punt on a few fixes myself. I've done a few for friends. Mostly because of the poor factor.
Done a few at a camera shop I worked at in the 90's.

All were with the expressed: this will either fix it or fuck it completely guarantee.
So far the score is around 20 successes to 1 fail.
Nothing quite like hearing a Nikon fail to start that was starting before but not taking pictures.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Yeah I understand what you are saying but I was referring to a post by PauinNZ (shown below) freighting a TV remote control from Japan or 'Stralia to NZ. No repair or labor fee just freight costs which someone looks to be adding a gouge to.

PaulinNZ post
Despite the apparent gouging you can burn $$ very fast on stuff like that. We supplied TV's and flat panels for yonks and people call up for a remote control. Look we just cant afford to hold spare remotes for every bloody screen (although there are commonalities) as the warehousing costs very quickly add up so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise and the most we would add is 10% but usually just pass them on at cost... Not usually many takers...

[gjm]

There are many cases where careful shopping and buying abroad works out in your favour.

Occasionally, it works out more expensive and the home-sourced kit is cheaper. Can take some digging, but worth it.

Often though, take the purchase price in the US (you're probably paying retail, and the buy price is less than here). Add shipping. Add insurance. It's probably over NZ$400 now, so add the customs fees and duties. The price often works out to be very very close to what you'd pay here, despite all that additional cost in shipping and fees being added. You're paying retail, remember.

This is certainly true of some things I have looked at recently. I'm not saying the local seller has looked at what is possible for the individual and priced accordingly, but.. OK.. Maybe I am saying that.

I've been looking at suspension for the car. Even after shipping from Germany, etc, is factored in, it is at least 40% cheaper to buy from overseas: I can land the kit for around $600 but it'll cost twice that to buy here, and the wait is longer so it's obviously not in stock. Local dealer tells me they can't compete with overseas prices. I'm paying retail overseas (I assume local dealers have a trade agreement) and it's so much cheaper? Perhaps I should sell to the local dealer?

I'll certainly buy locally if I can, and I appreciate the convenience in doing so. But if it's significantly cheaper elsewhere, then my wallet comes first.

[Blackbird]

There are many cases where careful shopping and buying abroad works out in your favour.

I've spent several thousand bucks on overseas purchases in the last 2 years ranging from domestic goods, electronics and clothing through to all sorts of motorcycle stuff. Have made really big savings compared with NZ on stuff that is predominantly either compact or light weight. Failed when it came to getting hold of a pair of Michelin PR4's due to shipping rates and coughed up $750 for the pair at Drury Performance Centre. I might have a way round that next time though :cool:

Edit: I should have added that I bought a custom spec Nitron shock through Robert Taylor a short while ago and his mark-up compared with me getting one directly from the UK was very reasonable, especially as he did all the organising. Good for Robert :sunny:

[jasonu]

Just remembering when there were good burger bars around and now I rarely buy a burger as they are horrible, I should have complained more.:yes:

Pretty much everyone rags on McD, BK, Wendys etc, I don't eat that shit, I'll never go back etc yet they are all doing OK...
I think they are all shit too but maybe once every 3 months I'll suffer thru a south western bacon cheese burger from Carls Jr yummy!!!!!
You are right though, the burger bar stuff of days gone by were the best. Mt Eden takeaways used to do a bomber lamb burger and there used to be a place at the top of Parnell in the late 80's that had the best grub in town.

[Voltaire]

Pretty much everyone rags on McD, BK, Wendys etc, I don't eat that shit, I'll never go back etc yet they are all doing OK...
I think they are all shit too but maybe once every 3 months I'll suffer thru a south western bacon cheese burger from Carls Jr yummy!!!!!
You are right though, the burger bar stuff of days gone by were the best. Mt Eden takeaways used to do a bomber lamb burger and there used to be a place at the top of Parnell in the late 80's that had the best grub in town.

Al and Petes it was called, very busy on Friday and Sat nights.:yes:

But back to the main story, I just get stuff off the net, bike shops have never been good for the old shitters I ride and I'm not really into the new stuff due to depreciation, locked into dealers spares and service, and inability to go fast on our roads.

[swbarnett]

Al and Petes it was called, very busy on Friday and Sat nights.:yes:
It's now called "Penny". Last time I was there nothing much had changed except the name. Still just as good.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Almost all will require some specialist tools unless you have the hands of a surgeon and a fair amount o luck. Bits that snap into joiners that are behind another part to connect a ribbon connector are common as compact is king.
As for the specialist tools for locating these ribbons. Worse than computer tools and model specific.
Training and tools cost a lot to keep current.

I have no comment on the cost of parts, but for me those specialized tools and knowledge was a significant investment. You can buy the parts cheaper off shore, but the parts can be a small cost of the repair. The repair business has to make money somewhere in the deal to stay in business. It may look like 10-15 minutes to rework a board but theres 100K+ sitting on the bench to enable that kind of repairs + people to pay.

[Madness]

Yep, international logistics these days means that you don't have to hold significant inventory.

:laugh: Good luck with that.

[pete376403]

Macbook Pro 15" LCD - around $800 here, around $US90 + $US25 freight off E-bay - which is probably the same place the local supplier gets it from

[swbarnett]

Macbook Pro 15" LCD - around $800 here, around $US90 + $US25 freight off E-bay - which is probably the same place the local supplier gets it from
Link please...

[Virago]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.

[pete376403]

Link please...

Sorry, not off E-bay, I had been searching there, but later came across this site.


http://www.laptopscreen.com/English/model/Apple/MACBOOK~PRO~15~UNIBODY~MODEL~A1286/

[Edbear]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.

Chinese copies of course. They may be fine for a while but you're taking a gamble.

I had the windscreen replaced in the Kizashi due to an irreparable chip. Smith and Smith fitted an aftermarket screen, (unbeknownst to me), made in Australia but they couldn't get the rain sensor to work properly and after three goes to fix it, including replacing the sensor, they replaced the screen again but with a genuine Suzuki screen. No problems and everything worked perfectly as soon as it was hooked up.

My local panelbeater said they always try the cheaper screens first and usually the car owner is no wiser but he pointed out some common flaws with the aftermarket screens that make me certain to insist on genuine if I ever have to replace another one.

[bogan]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.

Fuck mate, get good. Even that TM bloke is gouging when you look at this link.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Remote-Control-Remote-Key-Fob-3-1-Button-433MHZ-Entry-Remote-For-Ford-BA-BF-Falcon/32244932878.html

[jasonu]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.

Except you got a genuine remote fob and the ones on tardme are knock offs which might or might not work, might or might not keep working. A friend of mine had to pay $400 for a genuine Honda remote fob.

[rustyrobot]

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession... I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found ...

I need to replace one too (Toyota) - how do you programme the new remote?

[jasonu]

I need to replace one too (Toyota) - how do you programme the new remote?

Check your owners book. I had to program a chipped security key for my Focus and it was all in the book.
Or you can pay the dealers an hours shop time to do the 5 minute job... now THAT is a gouge!

[Ocean1]

Rang Sony NZ and asked how they could justify the mark-up. Predictably, the conversation was marketing-speak but the guts of the reply was “because we can”.

Fuck I'm sick of getting ripped off. Every time I turn around some prick is trying to charge me twice what he should based on a simple cost-to-market price.

Reckon the fix is an approach similar to the no-more-cowboys effort. A web page dedicated to scoring consumer manufacturers NZ pricing and after market service pricing. Y'know, because you can.

How do you go about setting up something like that?

[Blackbird]

How do you go about setting up something like that?

I guess you could do it via Blogger as it's free but the IT savvy guys on the forum probably know a better way.

[Virago]

I need to replace one too (Toyota) - how do you programme the new remote?

Every manufacturer is different - a quick google of your model should find it for you. That's what I did for mine - believe it or not it simply required the 'coon demister button to be pressed three times in quick succession to put the car into program mode. I was surprised how easy it was.

[BMWST?]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.

its not a genuine original ford part...he says so.The ford dealer will be bound to buy parts form FORD...i bet the actual margin over the counter is not what you think it is.They will be getting ripped of by FORD too

[Katman]

I've heard of people buying motorcycle gear from overseas and then going into a local shop and wanting them to sort out a warranty issue with it.

If that's not taking the piss, I don't know what is.

[Virago]

its not a genuine original ford part...he says so.The ford dealer will be bound to buy parts form FORD...i bet the actual margin over the counter is not what you think it is.They will be getting ripped of by FORD too

Yeah, I see that. I don't think he had that disclaimer in the earlier trade I looked at. The remote certainly appears absolutely identical in every regard - buttons, colour, plastic texture, key ring loop.

[Gremlin]

I guess you could do it via Blogger as it's free but the IT savvy guys on the forum probably know a better way.
No idea, too busy fixing IT stuff ;)

[bogan]

Fuck I'm sick of getting ripped off. Every time I turn around some prick is trying to charge me twice what he should based on a simple cost-to-market price.

Reckon the fix is an approach similar to the no-more-cowboys effort. A web page dedicated to scoring consumer manufacturers NZ pricing and after market service pricing. Y'know, because you can.

How do you go about setting up something like that?

Hit the interwebypipes with a number 7 hammer?

Trade discounts is one of the things that fucks me off. Not the you buy heaps so you can have 20% off sort one; but the cunts that set their base price 5x what they expect to sell at. I've walked in off the street and got 60% off fairly often. Other times, 10% or less. Artificial price fluctuations like a motherfucker.

Got two places I like though as their list prices are both stable and competitive, and their service is excellent:
http://www.bearingandengineering.co.nz
http://www.carbidenz.co.nz/store/index.php

euromarc seem good too for abrasives, but they don't list prices.
Steel, stainless, and ali are all pretty hard to get good rates on small quantities too.

[bogan]

If that's not taking the piss, I don't know what is.

Buying local, having a warranty issue, and getting a one month turnaround because they have to slow boat it overseas anyway :innocent:

[jasonu]

Fuck I'm sick of getting ripped off. Every time I turn around some prick is trying to charge me twice what he should based on a simple cost-to-market

One good reason why I I have no intention or interest in living in NZ again.

[Voltaire]

One good reason why I I have no intention or interest in living in NZ again.

but...but Al and Petes is still there :msn-wink:

I like it, just wish they would throttle the immigration tap back so my kids can one day buy a house.....oh too late.

[Paul in NZ]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130826568]Look I hear ya... But - its never that simple.

so we get them from Japan or Aussie... The freight etc lifts them into orbit price wise QUOTE]

But freight cost for a remote control from Japan or Aussie to NZ shouldn't be much more than $20. Or is someone adding a 'packing and handling' fee on top of the actual freight cost?

True - but as you infer, that the freight cost is just a small component of the 'cost' to a corporate. The query has to be responded to, payment arranged, processed, order dispatched, item picked in the warehouse and packed and dispatched. That means someone has to fund an IT system, a financial system and pay wages. If you allowed an hour labour you will add say $40, add some more for the infra structure, say $10 and the 'cost' is suddenly $70. Then you need to courier it to the customer so say $85 plus the actual cost of the thing...

[jasonu]

but...but Al and Petes is still there :msn-wink:

I like it, just wish they would throttle the immigration tap back so my kids can one day buy a house.....oh too late.

Mail me a cheese and bacon burger would ya...:niceone:

[Edbear]

[QUOTE=jasonu;1130826582]

True - but as you infer, that the freight cost is just a small component of the 'cost' to a corporate. The query has to be responded to, payment arranged, processed, order dispatched, item picked in the warehouse and packed and dispatched. That means someone has to fund an IT system, a financial system and pay wages. If you allowed an hour labour you will add say $40, add some more for the infra structure, say $10 and the 'cost' is suddenly $70. Then you need to courier it to the customer so say $85 plus the actual cost of the thing...

I am in the fortunate position of low overheads, ie: no shop to pay for, no staff wages, (though my wife would like some...:mellow:), and I am the direct importer and sole agency for two key products in high demand.

I worked out my dealer margin to be as realistically close to the US equivalent as possible to avoid the issue of parallel importing. It's just not worth while for anyone to import themselves from another dealer in the US. Plus my warranty is far superior to the Shorai one.

So I do the exchange rate conversion, add GST and freight, put on the minimum mark up I can survive with and rely on volume and the longer term growth. It means my margin to dealers is very tight and I am exposed to the fluctuations in the exchange rate more than others, but it has been the right strategy so far as four years down the track, sales have picked up rapidly and are now about three times what they were two years ago.

Also, I am only now, four years later, having to seriously look at raising my prices, as the exchange rate is now just under what I worked out the original mark up on, and projected to fall further. It's a hard decision to make, even if I'm only looking at 5%.

[Woodman]

Hit the interwebypipes with a number 7 hammer?

Trade discounts is one of the things that fucks me off. Not the you buy heaps so you can have 20% off sort one; but the cunts that set their base price 5x what they expect to sell at. I've walked in off the street and got 60% off fairly often. Other times, 10% or less. Artificial price fluctuations like a motherfucker.

Got two places I like though as their list prices are both stable and competitive, and their service is excellent:
http://www.bearingandengineering.co.nz
http://www.carbidenz.co.nz/store/index.php

euromarc seem good too for abrasives, but they don't list prices.
Steel, stainless, and ali are all pretty hard to get good rates on small quantities too.

Yes , but the suppliers that do have genuine trade customers who do spend a lot have to offer them a great discount because they then resell the product/part as part of a job and that is how they make a profit. If those same customers ever find out that someone off the street is getting the same discount as they are then the supplier may lose their business. I have seen it happen.

You are right about bearing and engineering. They just down the road and are bloody good.

[bogan]

Yes , but the suppliers that do have genuine trade customers who do spend a lot have to offer them a great discount because they then resell the product/part as part of a job and that is how they make a profit. If those same customers ever find out that someone off the street is getting the same discount as they are then the supplier may lose their business. I have seen it happen.

You are right about bearing and engineering. They just down the road and are bloody good.

I get that, and no problem with 20-40% discounts over walk ins for trades, buying power and all that. It is when the trades gets 80% off, and walk ins get 20-60% off, that I don't get the point. It is the same thing essentially, but with more price variation; for a completely unnecessary reason. We get fucked off with it and just source shit ex china. So if losing business is their worry, a change is in order.

[Woodman]

I get that, and no problem with 20-40% discounts over walk ins for trades, buying power and all that. It is when the trades gets 80% off, and walk ins get 20-60% off, that I don't get the point. It is the same thing essentially, but with more price variation; for a completely unnecessary reason. We get fucked off with it and just source shit ex china. So if losing business is their worry, a change is in order.

Trust me when I say that it is a friggen balancing act. When you get some walk in demanding full trade prices so he can save himself $20 versus risking the loss of 6 figure accounts, what do you think will be the answer?

[bogan]

Trust me when I say that it is a friggen balancing act. When you get some walk in demanding full trade prices so he can save himself $20 versus risking the loss of 6 figure accounts, what do you think will be the answer?

You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting walk ins get trade prices, just that walk ins get stable prices (list) which are not outrageously more expensive than trade (50% at most).

And it isn't just the walk ins that bring in cheap stuff ex china... Though it is worth mentioning that today's walk ins could be tomorow's 6 figure accounts...

[Woodman]

You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting walk ins get trade prices, just that walk ins get stable prices (list) which are not outrageously more expensive than trade (50% at most).

And it isn't just the walk ins that bring in cheap stuff ex china... Though it is worth mentioning that today's walk ins could be tomorow's 6 figure accounts...

Agree with you in every way, but like I say, to manage it is a balancing act on a daily basis.

[bogan]

Agree with you in every way, but like I say, to manage it is a balancing act on a daily basis.

Surely the first step is to lower the list prices far enough to remove any need for walk-in discounts though?

[Woodman]

Surely the first step is to lower the list prices far enough to remove any need for walk-in discounts though?

That is happening , but the guys depending on good trade margins then start asking questions why the RRP is not a lot higher than they are used to. They can and should charge a markup to suit their own needs, not just rely on their supplier to recommend it.

[Ocean1]

You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting walk ins get trade prices, just that walk ins get stable prices (list) which are not outrageously more expensive than trade (50% at most).

And it isn't just the walk ins that bring in cheap stuff ex china... Though it is worth mentioning that today's walk ins could be tomorow's 6 figure accounts...

But the results of most trade discounting practices is that the trades in question end up pricing their labour at cost. At best. They can afford to do that because they're making 500% on the materials.

The problem I have with that is they're not actually selling their trades skills, which is what I want to hire. They're simply taking advantage of a manipulated market, what they're selling is materials. Fuck all that, I want to pay for their ability to supply trade skills, not the size of their materials budget.

What's more; as a retail hardware buyer I don't expect to be subsidising professionals by paying 4-5 times the price they do.

[jasonu]

My mate used to be a grease monkey at Road Race and Rally in Penrose. He used to send me to various vendors for car stuff and I was told to say it's for Brett at RR&R and the trade price was given. Soon after I would go to the same vendors for my personal stuff. It's for Brett at RR&R but I'll pay cash. Never failed to get full trade prices.

[bogan]

But the results of most trade discounting practices is that the trades in question end up pricing their labour at cost. At best. They can afford to do that because they're making 500% on the materials.

The problem I have with that is they're not actually selling their trades skills, which is what I want to hire. They're simply taking advantage of a manipulated market, what they're selling is materials. Fuck all that, I want to pay for their ability to supply trade skills, not the size of their materials budget.

What's more; as a retail hardware buyer I don't expect to be subsidising professionals by paying 4-5 times the price they do.

Which is why we buy stuff elsewhere. Market forces simply don't tolerate such market manipulation now the cost of importing is so low. Especially now that 'elsewhere' has come local too.

[Ocean1]

Which is why we buy stuff elsewhere. Market forces simply don't tolerate such market manipulation now the cost of importing is so low. Especially now that 'elsewhere' has come local too.

Electrician to terminate my new garage? Nobody's interested, they don't get the materials mark-up.

Plumber to install a new boiler? Only if they supply it.

I don't mind paying a premium to a top tradesman for a top job. But I'm fucked if I want someone on the job who's primary interest begins and ends at selling me some cheep piece of shit for 4 times the price he paid.

Outfits like Telecom certainly import off-shore tradesmen to drive local tradesmen costs down, but that's a different story. One that also resulted in some fucking shoddy work.

[Woodman]

Electrician to terminate my new garage? Nobody's interested, they don't get the materials mark-up.

Plumber to install a new boiler? Only if they supply it.

I don't mind paying a premium to a top tradesman for a top job. But I'm fucked if I want someone on the job who's primary interest begins and ends at selling me some cheep piece of shit for 4 times the price he paid.

Outfits like Telecom certainly import off-shore tradesmen to drive local tradesmen costs down, but that's a different story. One that also resulted in some fucking shoddy work.

Whats the difference between paying a markup on a product than getting charged $100per/hr when the guy doing the job only gets $30per/hr?

[yevjenko]

[QUOTE=jasonu;1130826582]

All were with the expressed: this will either fix it or fuck it completely guarantee.


That'd make a good t shirt

[yevjenko]

I've just experienced the ultimate in price gouging.

Both key remotes for my BF Falcon died in rapid succession. I called in at Dunedin City Motors to enquire about a replacement. They were available ex stock - price $193.00. The thing is, that was the price range I was (naively) expecting, so I bought one on the spot.

A couple of days later while aimlessly surfing the 'net, I thought I'd (rather belatedly) search for other prices. This is what I found for the identical article - right here in NZ:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/other/auction-840291572.htm

Lesson learnt the hard way.
Doh!

You know you can buy those at Mr minit stands in the mall these days...

[bogan]

Whats the difference between paying a markup on a product than getting charged $100per/hr when the guy doing the job only gets $30per/hr?

The difference between getting overpriced stuff installed as quickly as possible, and well priced stuff installed thoroughly?

[Ocean1]

Whats the difference between paying a markup on a product than getting charged $100per/hr when the guy doing the job only gets $30per/hr?

I don't have a problem paying a mark-up. Up to a point.

But when "trade" is 20% of what I have to pay then not only are the public subsidising the trade in general but the price I pay for the labour content is masked by the materials mark-up.

Why shouldn't I be able to shop for the materials and the labour separately, paying the price appropriate for the quality of both, not some fucked up mixture of both where the quality of either is unclear.

[bogan]

Why shouldn't I be able to shop for the materials and the labour separately, paying the price appropriate for the quality of both, not some fucked up mixture of both where the quality of either is unclear.

Liability.

[Ocean1]

Liability.

Liability for who? The respective suppliers?

Pretty much what's required innit? they both need to be responsible for the quality of their product, anything else is bullshit.

[bogan]

Liability for who? The respective suppliers?

Pretty much what's required innit? they both need to be responsible for the quality of their product, anything else is bullshit.

Supplier/installer, if a job goes tits up, who is liable? How easy is it to figure out what is installation fault, and what is product fault?

[Woodman]

Liability for who? The respective suppliers?

Pretty much what's required innit? they both need to be responsible for the quality of their product, anything else is bullshit.

No, If you as a tradesman fit a customer supplied part then you have deemed by your experience/qualifications that the part is fit for purpose. If something goes pearshaped it ends up in a 3 way shitfight and it is generally the installer who ends up liable, which begs the question, why would you warranty something you have not supplied/made any mark up on?:weird:

[bsasuper]

There are a lot of people living in huge flash mansions in NZ make of that what you will.You will always buy something overseas cheaper than here, often I can buy 2 or 3 for the price of one here.I just bought a Shorai battery for my bike $100 less than what I was quoted for the same Shorai battery here,(don't get mad ed, I have brought off you in the past) and that was paying a bit extra to have a lithium battery shipped safely.
I did buy a new shoei helmet here in NZ though, as it was only $40 more.

[mossy1200]

But the results of most trade discounting practices is that the trades in question end up pricing their labour at cost. At best. They can afford to do that because they're making 500% on the materials.

The problem I have with that is they're not actually selling their trades skills, which is what I want to hire. They're simply taking advantage of a manipulated market, what they're selling is materials. Fuck all that, I want to pay for their ability to supply trade skills, not the size of their materials budget.

What's more; as a retail hardware buyer I don't expect to be subsidising professionals by paying 4-5 times the price they do.

The only electrical install product that's cost a tradesman 20% of retail would be cable. I don't know an electrician that has charged even close to trade price to sell cable. The public can buy cable from mitre10 etc for a fraction of trade price across the counter.


Electrician to terminate my new garage? Nobody's interested, they don't get the materials mark-up.


I don't mind paying a premium to a top tradesman for a top job. But I'm fucked if I want someone on the job who's primary interest begins and ends at selling me some cheep piece of shit for 4 times the price he paid.



Average domestic and commercial electrical charge out is between $55 and $60 per hour. If you pay someone $30 and add holiday pay, sick leave, public holidays, downtime, bad debts, admin, vehicle costs, insurances there is not much left. When you supply an electrician parts and he installs the parts then gives you a compliance certificate he has certified the parts as being compliant with NZ and Australian standards. Even further now if you buy a non compliant part he has certified that part as being compliant. If you run a cable underground he has certified that cable wasn't damaged and sits more than 450mm down for sub circuits and 600mm down for mains with warning tape and in a suitable soft soil or sand enclosure or within conduit pipe. He is certifying cable he cant see haven't been damaged or incorrectly positioned. Your electrician signs the risk.

Terminate your garage doesn't interest your electrician because its not worth the risk signing it off under his name.


Whats the difference between paying a markup on a product than getting charged $100per/hr when the guy doing the job only gets $30per/hr?

$100 an hour would be nice. Any electrician charges $100 per hour goes under unless he has specialised equipment or skills.
We have a fibre splicer worth $50k and we don't get $100 per hour using it even though we are one of a few that can splice fibre in the area.


I don't have a problem paying a mark-up. Up to a point.

But when "trade" is 20% of what I have to pay then not only are the public subsidising the trade in general but the price I pay for the labour content is masked by the materials mark-up.

Why shouldn't I be able to shop for the materials and the labour separately, paying the price appropriate for the quality of both, not some fucked up mixture of both where the quality of either is unclear.

Electrician will charge $60odd for labour which in a company might equal $12-$15 profit before bad debts and most company prices when the parts value isn't high is trade plus 10%. Cost on a lot of the parts is trade less 20%. Heavily discounted parts like cable is charged well below trade price to match the sales prices of your mitre 10s etc unless its a short length being used.

I cant talk about other trades as they will have their own systems.

Most people have a very poor awareness of how many regulations and how many punishments are involved with certified electrical work.
You may like cut price airlines prices but would you like a half trained airline pilot to save some more money. How about if the a pilot did the landing but a random passenger did the take off and mid-flight while he waited for the chance to complete your journey at the final hour.

Im not claiming its a bad way to make money but its not an extremely easy way.
Many times a small one operator electrician doesn't make it past year one.
Many times a small one operator electrician doesn't survive a main contractor declaring bankrupt at the end of a job and not paying his sub trades.

Even large companies in Wellington have folded in the last 10 years over one underquoted job or a non payment. There is a tendency to undercut your competition that pushes profit margins very low that has done damage to the industry pricing also. Low quotes pushed pressure onto wholesalers to discount below trade which is why there is a huge difference in pricing costs for cable etc. As a customer your not being punished but seeing a huge discount structure with retail being a figure that's irrelevant as its seldom used.

Retail on 2.5mm cable is likely $14 a metre approx (not exact as retails a figure I don't pay a lot of attention). Last time I charged 2.5mm cable it was in the low $3 a metre range.

[mossy1200]

Supplier/installer, if a job goes tits up, who is liable? How easy is it to figure out what is installation fault, and what is product fault?

Electrician supplies electrical certificate has made the product compliant. Fault becomes the electricians if it is not compliant. There is no importer control on what enters NZ as being compliant or not. Signing for it is owning the electrical responsibility.

[Ocean1]

No, If you as a tradesman fit a customer supplied part then you have deemed by your experience/qualifications that the part is fit for purpose. If something goes pearshaped it ends up in a 3 way shitfight and it is generally the installer who ends up liable, which begs the question, why would you warranty something you have not supplied/made any mark up on?:weird:

And this tradesman dude, he's got himself covered for professional indemnity? Public liability?

But he's incompetent enough that he also wants to be able to do the job five times before it costs as much as the retailer would charge me?

Who is this masked man? I desperately need to avoid him!

[Ocean1]

The only electrical install product that's cost a tradesman 20% of retail would be cable.

You're not trying hard enough, I get over 80% on some.

And stop it with the inside story, I'm trying to make a point and you're not helping :laugh:

[mossy1200]

You're not trying hard enough, I get over 80% on some.

And stop it with the inside story, I'm trying to make a point and you're not helping :laugh:

Should read off trade.

Theres no magic profit in the electrical trade. Most sparkies sell at cost plus x percent or trade plus 10% until the unrealistic trade price margins begin.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Try setting up a small business here:
Price for 30' role of matting approx NZD $2,080. US price USD $390.00 + shipping.

Don't even ask me about the price difference on other equipment I needed. Although the supplier looks like they are making excessive margins, the real issue is the distributer/manufacture not the supplier (at least in my case for the equipment I needed). The supplier was working on a small margin and just passing their acquisition cost along.

Another issue most people are unaware of is the import costs. Unless you are a customs broker you can't just walk into a customs facility to clear and release an item.

The NZ price is eventually passed on to the customer and it's part of the reason getting anything done here costs so much.

[Voltaire]

I was self employed for a few years as a sparkie/air con tech. I had an account at a large electrical supplier who gave me " trade' on cable, that was until I realised I could get the same cable cheaper at Bunnings and then a bloke off Trade Me for General Cable.
Same with PDL isolators, I could get good quality Chint Chinese ones for about a 1/3 of PDL.
I'm amazed Electrical wholesalers still exist, ideal candidate for Amazon type operation.

[MarkH]

I'll certainly buy locally if I can, and I appreciate the convenience in doing so. But if it's significantly cheaper elsewhere, then my wallet comes first.

Same here, I do spend plenty locally for various reasons like wanting to ensure something fits comfortably or because the price really isn't far off what it would cost me to import.
But then there are things that cost $585 here that I can import for a landed cost of $325 - shit mate, how could I justify to myself buying local for that?


I've heard of people buying motorcycle gear from overseas and then going into a local shop and wanting them to sort out a warranty issue with it.

That's easy to explain - some people are fuckwits!


Another issue most people are unaware of is the import costs. Unless you are a customs broker you can't just walk into a customs facility to clear and release an item.

Why not?
A while ago I dealt with customs, to import something expensive I needed to fill out a form and fax it to them, that gave me an import number I could quote.
I don't think I've needed to use that import number since.
I can't even remember when I last had to pay GST - but I do try hard to keep my packages value under the $400.
For more expensive packages that you have to pay GST on, unless things have changed you just need to provide a credit card number so they can charge you the GST and the admin fee.


I have come across some huge cost differences, something that cost $495 locally I was able to get from overseas for $150.
Try buying a new foil for a Braun shaver, I used to get these locally but the pricing & packaging has changed - I can only get the foil with a new cutting block for a huge price locally or really cheap with free international shipping from Ebay. I sorted out a foil for my step-father's shaver which was dearer locally than the shaver (WTF?) but the one from Ebay for NZ$12 (total landed cost) works just fine.

I am pretty sure that 90% of the worst price differences stem from greedy importers, I've seen plenty of pricing here that isn't too far from the overseas cost which makes me think that stuff doesn't need to be all that much dearer here. I'm pretty sure that some importers just charge as much as they think they can get away with even if it means 200% margin or more for them.

[AllanB]

Some years back Honda cars NZ decided to introduce a policy of one price for all - dumping the usual commercial/business users fleet discount. The theory was
a. the cars were too good to be discounted
b. fleet discounts inevitably lead to a flood of even further discounted used cars three years later where the vehicles are returned
c. it should give normal buyers reassurance in their expensive purchase holding it's value well.

Fleet sales crapped out and the influx of the used Japanese cars stuffed up resale anyway.

I don't know what their current policy is.

[KiwiGeek]

A good portion of my expensive purchases are now done on overseas websites. I recently bought a gaming mouse and pad from overseas as the price for Kiwi shoppers was twice the price of the US price.

[AllanB]

The problem with buying motorcycle stuff for the USA is they ride on the other side of the road to us. I had to get my helmet, gloves, mufflers, bars, levers, turn signals etc adjusted for NZ.

[Big Dog]

Interestingly buying a Honda stator from a local merchant, sourcing from Honda Japan was $100 cheaper than the route I used to get my Suzuki one ( mrcycles.com sell all of the big four plus Polaris and some others). We will see how long it takes to get here before commenting further.
Plus I don't need to worry customs will skim it.
Good on you Counties Honda.

I don't see how a bigger stator could cost half as much to land as Suzuki one.
$1050 + gst was what Colemans quoted me. For the DR350 stator.
$599 inc was price for CB1300 from Counties Honda.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[awa355]

The problem with buying motorcycle stuff for the USA is they ride on the other side of the road to us. I had to get my helmet, gloves, mufflers, bars, levers, turn signals etc adjusted for NZ.

I suppose wearing your American bought left glove on your right hand and visa versa would be a tad uncomfortable ;)

[pritch]

I am pretty sure that 90% of the worst price differences stem from greedy importers,

In the bad old days you couldn't import anything unless you had a licence to do so. Licences were only granted to specific businesses. A licence to import was pretty much a licence to print money. There are still importers around who have not grasped the idea that the world has changed.

[ruaphu]

Sheeeeeeeesh, ordered a full set of brake pads for our sled from my local bike shop.

Got a call to pick em up em last week so trundled off at lunch time to get em. Get to the bike shop, the parts guru is out to lunch, Errr can't find them? They gleefully tell me their parts guy doesn't like to put names on stuff........f*#*ing bully for him and a complete waste of time for me! Consequently had to go back a second time to pick em up once the parts guru aka 'the half wit' had located them.

Got charged $239 for the pads, FAR-Far-F*#k! really?!. I realise my bike shop has to make a profit and I support em where I can. But heck that price was ott considering they ordered em in as the middle man.

The other part I needed 'the half wit' had still F*#*ing forgotten to order in and furthermore couldn't be bothered following up, very frustrating!. They lost out on that sale, I ended up ordering it online along with another rear tyre from Jakewilson.com. So they nail me for $239 but miss out on another $200 worth of sales, not including the tyre.

What is it with bike shops and poor service, is it really that hard?

[jellywrestler]

Sheeeeeeeesh, ordered a full set of brake pads for our sled from my local bike shop.

Got a call to pick em up em last week so trundled off at lunch time to get em. Get to the bike shop, the parts guru is out to lunch, Errr can't find them? They gleefully tell me their parts guy doesn't like to put names on stuff........f*#*ing bully for him and a complete waste of time for me! Consequently had to go back a second time to pick em up once the parts guru aka 'the half wit' had located them.

Got charged $239 for the pads, FAR-Far-F*#k! really?!. I realise my bike shop has to make a profit and I support em where I can. But heck that price was ott considering they ordered em in as the middle man.

The other part I needed 'the half wit' had still F*#*ing forgotten to order in and furthermore couldn't be bothered following up, very frustrating!. They lost out on that sale, I ended up ordering it online along with another rear tyre from Jakewilson.com. So they nail me for $239 but miss out on another $200 worth of sales, not including the tyre.

What is it with bike shops and poor service, is it really that hard? whose going to fit your tyre when the bike shops have all shut down?

[pete376403]

Buy one of these and learn to use it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-tire-changer-attachment-60810.html

[BlackSheepLogic]

In the bad old days you couldn't import anything unless you had a licence to do so. Licences were only granted to specific businesses. A licence to import was pretty much a licence to print money. There are still importers around who have not grasped the idea that the world has changed.

It only appears easy because for the average person their item comes in below the threshold value (~ NZD 400) or it comes though the post and NZ post makes it easy for you as NZ Post has brokers. The charge around NZD $140.00 in addition to customs fees tho).

If the item comes in though a courier (DHL for example) their custom brokers will get it cleared for a fee though customs once you provide your NZCS client number (you need to apply for one). You pay the custom charges + a broker fee. The shipping is expensive but the broker fee was reasonable.

It is not always possible to get the item shipped though NZ post (for example YouShop has a NZ$2,999.99 max value) or the company you are dealing with uses their own freight forwarding company). If the item you desire is shipped via freight you have to have to use a broker and believe me it's not cheap nor is it easy to find a broker for a single one-off import.

It's not possible for you & I to get it released from customs without the use of a broker if it's shipped freight. I've had to get several items for my business recently where there was no NZ distributer (often Australia offices for equipment also represent NZ). It's been both time consuming and expensive to get though NZCS. The only positive is that the broker's company can arrange commercial freight to your door once it's cleared. Having an item shipped freight is a lot cheaper than NZ Post or a courier charges.

[jasonu]

whose going to fit your tyre when the bike shops have all shut down?

Do it yourself. It aint that difficult.

[jasonu]

Sheeeeeeeesh, ordered a full set of brake pads for our sled from my local bike shop.

Got a call to pick em up em last week so trundled off at lunch time to get em. Get to the bike shop, the parts guru is out to lunch, Errr can't find them? They gleefully tell me their parts guy doesn't like to put names on stuff........f*#*ing bully for him and a complete waste of time for me! Consequently had to go back a second time to pick em up once the parts guru aka 'the half wit' had located them.

Got charged $239 for the pads, FAR-Far-F*#k! really?!. I realise my bike shop has to make a profit and I support em where I can. But heck that price was ott considering they ordered em in as the middle man.

The other part I needed 'the half wit' had still F*#*ing forgotten to order in and furthermore couldn't be bothered following up, very frustrating!. They lost out on that sale, I ended up ordering it online along with another rear tyre from Jakewilson.com. So they nail me for $239 but miss out on another $200 worth of sales, not including the tyre.

What is it with bike shops and poor service, is it really that hard?

Were the pads for your Vulcan? If they are then you got royally fucked!!!
A quick look on ebay revealed http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-EBC-FA229HH-Front-MX-Brake-Pads-VN1500-VN-1500-Vulcan-Classic-Sintered-/331480289216?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d2dc3cfc0&vxp=mtr
There were cheaper but I know EBC is a recognized brand.
You would have been better off paying your shop the restocking fee and ordering them from ebay.

[swbarnett]

whose going to fit your tyre when the bike shops have all shut down?
A mechanic that doesn't work out of a shop perhaps?

[AllanB]

On the hunt for a new leather jacket. $700 NZ, $440 USA. not worth importing unless I catch a sale in the USA. Tax, duties exchange rate ....


Starting to save. I don't have a issue with the price here - it will set me for the next decade or more, just a issue with my disposable income!


Quasi verse Alpinestar????????????

[Latte]

whose going to fit your tyre when the bike shops have all shut down?

Car tire shops, the process uses similar equipment, if they don't now they will if there's a market for it when all the bike shops close.

[pritch]

Car tire shops, the process uses similar equipment,

Really? I've spent some time hanging around tyre shops waiting for repairs to work vehicles, but I didn't ever notice a machine that looked as if it would handle a motorcycle wheel.

Umm these petrol stations that you are between; are they in the USA? :sherlock:

[Latte]

Really? I've spent some time hanging around tyre shops waiting for repairs to work vehicles, but I didn't ever notice a machine that looked as if it would handle a motorcycle wheel.

Umm these petrol stations that you are between; are they in the USA? :sherlock:

"Most motorcycle tyre machines are simply a car machine with a different clamp fitted to raise the wheel higher so the fitting head can reach"

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/103266-Tyre-fitting-how-much?p=1129306297#post1129306297

Personally I didn't notice a difference at all. Will have to pay attention next time.

[Latte]

Ahh just noticed your location ...

Rest of the country has more tools than just a big hammer, and a bigger stick. :jerry:

[Erelyes]

Pretty much everyone rags on McD, BK, Wendys etc, I don't eat that shit, I'll never go back etc yet they are all doing OK...
I think they are all shit too but maybe once every 3 months I'll suffer thru a south western bacon cheese burger from Carls Jr yummy!!!!!
You are right though, the burger bar stuff of days gone by were the best. Mt Eden takeaways used to do a bomber lamb burger and there used to be a place at the top of Parnell in the late 80's that had the best grub in town.

If you ever get a chance to try Velvet Burger (visiting NZ or whatever), they are good. Very very good.

Course they don't do $3 big macs on a Wednesday, but you get what you pay for.


its not a genuine original ford part...he says so.The ford dealer will be bound to buy parts form FORD...i bet the actual margin over the counter is not what you think it is.They will be getting ripped of by FORD too

How often "Genuine (Brand)" means that the brand actually just outsources the manufacture of the component anyway and gets their logo put on it. The fact that both fobs died in quick succession speaks somewhat to the fact it's probably made in China anyway... probably even in the same factory.

I have a genuine George Foreman slow-cooker. It looks exactly identical in every respect, except the label, to a genuine Russell Hobbs pressure cooker. Except the pricetag was $10 different. :laugh:

[yevjenko]

If you ever get a chance to try Velvet Burger (visiting NZ or whatever), they are good. Very very good.

If in Wellie, try ekim burgers from the caravan on cuba street (used to be at lyall bay). Best burgers and chunky deep fried potato products i have ever tried... mmmm... hungry now