Why housing costs are so ridiculously high

[husaberg]

Oh dear, have I upset you?
You seem to have issues...

Trolls like you don't upset me, why would you? you are not that important in your own right or to those around you, So why would you think you would be in mine, but after all the thread is about you, So feel free to carry on, seeing as you are still hungry.

[gjm]

Dunno about pensions but health spending has increased every year for the last decade or more. Mostly because they keep inventing new and expensive ways to keep people alive.
Annual spending on health routinely increases. Generally by around 2% less than the actual real cost of providing that health care. This is before we take into account continual population growth.
So in 'real' terms, health spending is decreasing year on year.

[Ocean1]

Annual spending on health routinely increases. Generally by around 2% less than the actual real cost of providing that health care. This is before we take into account continual population growth.
So in 'real' terms, health spending is decreasing year on year.

How do you figure that? Spending increases higher than the rest of the nation's doesn't represent a spending decrease, does it? The fact is the industry is spending more every year, indeed it's spending more per capita every year. In "real" terms that's not a budget "decrease".

[husaberg]

How do you figure that? Spending increases higher than the rest of the nation's doesn't represent a spending decrease, does it? The fact is the industry is spending more every year, indeed it's spending more per capita every year. In "real" terms that's not a budget "decrease".

he's talking per capita

[Winston001]

Annual spending on health routinely increases. Generally by around 2% less than the actual real cost of providing that health care. This is before we take into account continual population growth.
So in 'real' terms, health spending is decreasing year on year.

But today we get more bang for the buck. 21st century medicine is at science fiction levels.

In 1978 Dunedin had a major public fundraising campaign to buy a CAT scanner for the new hospital. The cost in todays money was about $850,000. It was a very big deal at the time.

Today you can buy a CAT scanner off the shelf for $100,000 - 150,000. Private medical centres have them. A friend of mine is a candidate for a heart transplant. That used to be impossible in New Zealand yet now the surgeons are quite relaxed about the procedure.

The core problem with public medicine is that science is able to repair and prolong people's lives with the effect many more old people are still alive. And they need more complex and expensive care. I know an 88yr old who went in for a hip operation recently.

[Ocean1]

he's talking per capita

He's talking what?

310711

[Ocean1]

The core problem with public medicine is that science is able to repair and prolong people's lives with the effect many more old people are still alive. And they need more complex and expensive care. I know an 88yr old who went in for a hip operation recently.

Or to put it more succinctly: the core problem with public medicine is fuckwits that demand funding for everything, fuckwit health service providers that pretend we should be delivering it and fuckwit politicians that don't seem to have the balls to point out that there's a limit to funding.

And we don't get the bang for our buck we once did as a direct result.

[husaberg]

He's talking what?

310711

your figures are not adjusted to per capita
Nor do they take into account the burden of debts brought by underfunding (the DHB's are carrying and having to finance) nor the aging population demographic.

[Ocean1]

your figures are not adjusted to per capita
Nor do they take into account the burden of debts brought by underfunding (the DHB's are carrying and having to finance) nor the aging population demographic.

Terribly sorry, I thought the arithmetic was pretty straightforward.

Here: 310715

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/health-expenditure-trends1997-2007.pdf

Healthcare spending per capita has doubled over that timeframe.

So all that "underfunding" turns out to be "overspending".

Which is a pity, because all of that debt is going to collide with the loss of that aging population's considerable tax revenue as they retire.

Bit of shoddy planning ain't it?

And in spite of the almost complete lack of financial direction throughout the industry we do get good service from our health spend. I read a scathing report commissioned by an off-shore health union and much repeated by the local versions showing NZ health spending lagged behind many other OECD countries. The fact is if you look at the services delivered NZ public health outperformed almost all of them. Particularly interesting was a comparison to the US overall spend, which is much higher than NZ's, and delivers a considerably lower level of services, over a much narrower demographic spread.

[Oscar]

Trolls like you don't upset me, why would you? you are not that important in your own right or to those around you, So why would you think you would be in mine, but after all the thread is about you, So feel free to carry on, seeing as you are still hungry.

So, let's recap - your reply to my post about the DPB/Widows Pension involved penis amputation.
Who's the troll again?

[husaberg]

Ah, the Chief Twat has weighed in.
What has the number of jobs in the country got to do with wimmin on the DPB?
It's a simple concept really, get knocked up (once), hubby (or wife) runs off or dies - the state should support you and the kid (and I agree the amount is too low).
But have a second kid whilst yer on the DPB?
That's a whole other thing.



That's not going anywhere near far enough Oscar, to make it fair any man that fathers a child with theses wanton hussies, should be made actually pay for the upkeep of that child directly rather than it being the taxpayers burden.
Failing that maybe remove their willies.
Where is a sarcasm font gone.



So, let's recap - your reply to my post about the DPB/Widows Pension involved penis amputation.
Who's the troll again?

You I was just feeding you.
My post was pointing out (albeit in a sarcastic manner) how idiotic your suggestion was.
but that was the whole point of what you wrote, to rile someone up.
I was just giving you the kind of reaction you wanted.

[Voltaire]

Looks like the Govt has no plans other than that plonker Nick the Prick pointing the blame at the Council.

How about they make the interest on rental property non taxdeductable ?

( oh no I hear all the rental owners scream.....we're offering a service ....yeah right)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11445580

[BMWST?]

Looks like the Govt has no plans other than that plonker Nick the Prick pointing the blame at the Council.

How about they make the interest on rental property non taxdeductable ?

( oh no I hear all the rental owners scream.....we're offering a service ....yeah right)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11445580


well they are arent they?Who would provide the rental properties if not the private landlord?The govt or council would then have the investment in a HUGE number of properties.

[Ocean1]

well they are arent they?Who would provide the rental properties if not the private landlord?The govt or council would then have the investment in a HUGE number of properties.

Like fuck they would, they loose more than their ratepayers enjoy paying for on the one's they've already got.

I agree with the basic thrust of the article, although "No other business provides a service few of its customers want" is rampant drivel, and "Rising rents would be another transitional hardship" would seem to shoot the argument dead centre of both feet.

And the obsession with taxing the so-called "rich" more to help the less "rich" identifies the source of the concept as largely discredited Labour policy. Doesn't it make at least as much sense to allow mortgage interest deductions for private home owners as well? Means less tax, of course, which would mean more "inequity". :rolleyes:

[gjm]

Capital gains applied to flip resale of property would make a difference to the turnover of ownership, and cut down on the investment aspect a little. Long term, it'd make no difference, but it might give an opportunity to find a better solution.

Like sorting the bloody railway so there was less pressure on living in Auckland!

[BMWST?]

Like fuck they would, they loose more than their ratepayers enjoy paying for on the one's they've already got.

I agree with the basic thrust of the article, although "No other business provides a service few of its customers want" is rampant drivel, and "Rising rents would be another transitional hardship" would seem to shoot the argument dead centre of both feet.

And the obsession with taxing the so-called "rich" more to help the less "rich" identifies the source of the concept as largely discredited Labour policy. Doesn't it make at least as much sense to allow mortgage interest deductions for private home owners as well? Means less tax, of course, which would mean more "inequity". :rolleyes:

exactly but you havent ansswered the implied question.If not the private landlord ....who?

[Ocean1]

Capital gains applied to flip resale of property would make a difference to the turnover of ownership, and cut down on the investment aspect a little. Long term, it'd make no difference, but it might give an opportunity to find a better solution.

Like sorting the bloody railway so there was less pressure on living in Auckland!

There's no end to the money you could spend making it easier for people to do what they can't afford to.

And there's already a solution to the price of entry level housing: arsehole the monopoly suppliers parasitizing the market. Seems to me that the easiest way to do that is for govt to take advantage of the same advantages CHH, Fletchers et al and local councils do: favourable purchasing conditions and compliance protocols and sheer size and beat the fuckers at their own game. In short, out monopolise them by supplying small houses at the competitive cost-to-supply.

That advantage would last just a decade or so, until the usual govt departmental rot set in but by that time you'd have flooded the market with cheap housing, you'd flog the whole business to the highest private bidder.

[Ocean1]

exactly but you havent ansswered the implied question.If not the private landlord ....who?

Oooh, ooh, I know: how about the ones actually living in them?

[Voltaire]

A rather ordinary 2 bed unit in a block of 6 next to me sold for $535 000 last week.

Assuming it was a Landlord type who bought it for a moment.

6% of that is $32 000

so $615 a week in interest payments.

+ rates, insurance and other bits..

I'm guessing the rent is going to go up. :shit:

But hey, can claim the interest off you tax and all the expenses as its " just like running a business"

Looking at the interest you get off savings and the 33% that the IRD take its not worth bothering with savings.

[eldog]

There's no end to the money you could spend making it easier for people to do what they can't afford to.

And there's already a solution to the price of entry level housing: arsehole the monopoly suppliers parasitizing the market. Seems to me that the easiest way to do that is for govt to take advantage of the same advantages CHH, Fletchers et al and local councils do: favourable purchasing conditions and compliance protocols and sheer size and beat the fuckers at their own game. In short, out monopolise them by supplying small houses at the competitive cost-to-supply.

That advantage would last just a decade or so, until the usual govt departmental rot set in but by that time you'd have flooded the market with cheap housing, you'd flog the whole business to the highest private bidder.

If your going to make cheap houses, there needs to be a standard which they are healthy to live in and the ground needs to be above the water table. Not some cheap freezing cold shitboxes which leak.

But your right, it would work for some. Its just getting work for people to do so they can reasonably be able to pay for it. - this is the kicker

[Ocean1]

If your going to make cheap houses, there needs to be a standard which they are healthy to live in and the ground needs to be above the water table. Not some cheap freezing cold shitboxes which leak.

But your right, it would work for some. Its just getting work for people to do so they can reasonably be able to pay for it. - this is the kicker

The general bleating about house pricing almost always fails to compare apples with apples. Your parents/grandparents could afford a cheap, freezing cold 90sqM shitbox that met the standards of their day, (just) they almost certainly couldn't have afforded the 200sqM palace today's prospective homeowners are comparing it to.

NZ houses are amongst the largest and best appointed in the world, and frankly, I don't give a shit how many people can't afford these 200sqM palaces. But I do care that a generation of kids are denied the basic entry-level house our parents were proud to own and in which they raised us, with varying degrees of success.

Make no bones about it, ill conceived building standards and arbitrary council compliance costs are a large part of the reason for today's house prices, they're the delight of every monopoly currently profiting from them. If we were allowed to and if the building sites were available then economies of scale and superior materials and design would today make the cost of those small 3 bdrm "sub-standard" homes our parents started with a fair bit less than it ever cost them, certainly not more.

[Ocean1]

A rather ordinary 2 bed unit in a block of 6 next to me sold for $535 000 last week.

Assuming it was a Landlord type who bought it for a moment.

6% of that is $32 000

so $615 a week in interest payments.

+ rates, insurance and other bits..

I'm guessing the rent is going to go up. :shit:

But hey, can claim the interest off you tax and all the expenses as its " just like running a business"

Looking at the interest you get off savings and the 33% that the IRD take its not worth bothering with savings.

So, rather than making it more expensive for both investor and tenant to do their thing by taxing them harder why don't we make it easier and more profitable to invest the money in local business? Current going rate for a general business loan is around 7.5%, I was hoping peer to peer structured lending would shorten that AND make investments other than housing more attractive for Mum and Dad's retirement nest egg, but so far it's looking like just another financial institution rort.

[eldog]

NZ houses are amongst the largest and best appointed in the world, and frankly, I don't give a shit how many people can't afford these 200sqM palaces. But I do care that a generation of kids are denied the basic entry-level house our parents were proud to own and in which they raised us, with varying degrees of success.

I live in one of these 200sqM houses not a modern one. I pay out 75%+ of my wages each week on the mortgage alone. I save where I can, but I have been lucky.

Ocean1 - I agree with you about general housing just how we can achieve this I don't know. Obviously we need more work so people can earn to pay. But we also need to build decent homes.
I don't want to see blocks of apartments like the UK.
Maybe make home owning some sort of priority.. and rentals not a money making exercise

Some people (like KBers) don't want to be told what to do there lies the problem, do we make home owning a state enterprise

I am just not sure.

On the other hand I have seen some people don't give a shit about their homes.....

[Ocean1]

On the other hand I have seen some people don't give a shit about there homes.....

Aye, in my experience those who live in homes they haven't worked hard to own.

[JimO]

Aye, in my experience those who live in homes they haven't worked hard to own.
and a lot of tenants

[mada]

If govt. had balls it would stop subsidising this un-productive part of the economy:

1 - remove the accommodation supplement which is costing approx 2 Billion per annum to top up rents for those who can't afford them.
2 - make the interest on rental property non taxdeductable

As it is now the taxpayer is paying a double wammy to rental property owners and property investors with subsidises that are inflating the market rates.

But instead Key and Smith... want to increase these fucking subsidies

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/258480/rent-subsidy-will-address-poverty-pm

[Voltaire]

My guess would be there are a lot of Govt types with rental properties.

[Stylo]

I live in one of these 200sqM houses not a modern one. I pay out 75%+ of my wages each week on the mortgage alone. I save where I can, but I have been lucky.

Ocean1 - I agree with you about general housing just how we can achieve this I don't know. Obviously we need more work so people can earn to pay. But we also need to build decent homes.
I don't want to see blocks of apartments like the UK.
Maybe make home owning some sort of priority.. and rentals not a money making exercise

Some people (like KBers) don't want to be told what to do there lies the problem, do we make home owning a state enterprise

I am just not sure.

On the other hand I have seen some people don't give a shit about their homes.....

75% !

That's a serious amount of wedge coming out of your back pocket eldog. Don't know how you do it ...

[gjm]

Seen the news today?

People queued overnight for the opportunity to pay $420k+ for bare 800-1200m sections in Beachlands.

When that is happening, the game is up. Affordable housing? Where...?

Of course, the real estate agents have jumped on this. 12 sections, at an average of (say) 450k gives a sale price of $5.4m, of which they will take their usual percentage. Good earning for very little effort.

At least they did price these sections. Another agent is selling 12 more similar sections at auction in a couple of weeks to "let the market decide" what they are worth. Lazy bastards - take a cut but don't even bother valuing anything anymore.

[bogan]

People queued overnight for the opportunity to pay $420k+ for bare 800-1200m sections in Beachlands.

When that is happening, the game is up. Affordable housing? Where...?

Most places that aren't fucking Beachlands. You can get house and property build brand new for that in hamilton.

[husaberg]

Most places that aren't fucking Beachlands. You can get house and property build brand new for that in hamilton.

Get a few in one place that the government has effectively destroyed now
http://www.realestate.co.nz/residential/search/prices_max/1000000/prices_min/200000/suburbs/1666

Nice Villa
http://www.realestate.co.nz/1928417
New build
http://www.realestate.co.nz/2252979
First Home buyers
http://www.realestate.co.nz/2283875

[eldog]

75% !

That's a serious amount of wedge coming out of your back pocket eldog. Don't know how you do it ...

I am determined to pay the bastard off ASAP because I can see the long term benefits.

It means long hours at work, going without etc. I spend carefully on good gear so it lasts. If I cant afford it I dont buy it. But I have been lucky and my mistress works too.

It doesnt suit everyone. I hope to be debt free when I retire.

make sure you plan stuff.

[pete376403]

My guess would be there are a lot of Govt types with rental properties.

Like this guy for example:

"Owner Stephen Henry, who is chief operating officer at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, said he was selling the property to shake up his portfolio.

The Kensington was already in the building when he bought it, and the brothel had been "fine" as a tenant."


http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/68278459/Take-a-peek-inside-Wellington-brothel-The-K

[Voltaire]

My fav of the week on TM
Wanganui. Under 500k....would have got you a section in Beachlands ( only 90 minits drive from city)
http://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/357688387.jpg

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=798477150

[Gadget1]

I am determined to pay the bastard off ASAP because I can see the long term benefits.

It means long hours at work, going without etc. I spend carefully on good gear so it lasts. If I cant afford it I dont buy it. But I have been lucky and my mistress works too.

It doesnt suit everyone. I hope to be debt free when I retire.

make sure you plan stuff.


Good on ya! Changing to fortnightly payments instead of monthly and shortening the term of the loan etc all reduce the amount of interest paid on a mortgage.

[eldog]

Good on ya! Changing to fortnightly payments instead of monthly and shortening the term of the loan etc all reduce the amount of interest paid on a mortgage.

weekly, put everything on card, pay card via direct debit so no interest only card year cost. No worries about late payment or forgetting. only problem is........

overspending ummmmm and will I have a job tomorrow/next week. its been touch and go for a few years now. I try not to think about it to much, survived the 87 crash buy selling almost everything.

[Gadget1]

weekly, put everything on card, pay card via direct debit so no interest only card year cost. No worries about late payment or forgetting. only problem is........

overspending ummmmm and will I have a job tomorrow/next week. its been touch and go for a few years now. I try not to think about it to much, survived the 87 crash buy selling almost everything.


Yep, even better. I've just picked up a part-time job so that means more money for fuel and more motorcycling.

[nodrog]

My fav of the week on TM
Wanganui.

heres a beach house

http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-864456207.htm

[Voltaire]

heres a beach house

http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-864456207.htm

Wow, could have a Remmers type house in the city and chill out at the beach with a slab of woodies only 15 minutes away....

[eldog]

Wow, could have a Remmers type house in the city and chill out at the beach with a slab of woodies only 15 minutes away....

take the Woodies with you no good them being 15mins away unless you ride your bike to get them?:brick:

[sidecar bob]

Wow, could have a Remmers type house in the city and chill out at the beach with a slab of woodies only 15 minutes away....

Umm, you haven't toured cuzziecliff have you?

[mossy1200]

Umm, you haven't toured cuzziecliff have you?

House comes with extra layer of foil in the walls for insulation and UV heat lamps for added warmth plus an all year tan.

[Voltaire]

House comes with extra layer of foil in the walls for insulation and UV heat lamps for added warmth plus an all year tan.

Sounding better all the time, are blocks supplied for under the car and can the lawn be just left?

[eldog]

Sounding better all the time, are blocks supplied for under the car and can the lawn be just left?

and if you get lost(pissed or locked up), remember you tied your good shoes up on the phone lines to remind you were you live aye:drinkup:

[swarfie]

Umm, you haven't toured cuzziecliff have you?

My cuzzie (Cousin....true story) lives there. Nice old place next to a park and the beach. Visited him after racing at The Cemetery Circuit last year. Seemed allright to me;)
And Willy lives there too.....
Better than living in Dorkland;):shutup:

[Voltaire]

Better than living in Dorkland;):shutup:

Once the underground train is up an running and they have built the 12 000 houses needed per year Len says its going to be" sweet as."

Seeing how long it takes to get things done, that should be in about 20 years.

[sidecar bob]

My cuzzie (Cousin....true story) lives there. Nice old place next to a park and the beach. Visited him after racing at The Cemetery Circuit last year. Seemed allright to me;)
And Willy lives there too.....
Better than living in Dorkland;):shutup:

Yeah, we always drop in on will when we are in town, ed is out there too.
There's a bunch of million dollar places right out the end, but the beach is black sand, It blows a gale & you have to drive through the Bronx to get to them.

[swarfie]

There's a bunch of million dollar places right out the end, but the beach is black sand, It blows a gale & you have to drive through the Bronx to get to them.

That'd be depressing....still better than driving through Dorkland tho'

[Voltaire]

That'd be depressing....still better than driving through Dorkland tho'

So on Friday are you going to catch a ferry to Whangarai?

[Swoop]

How about they make the interest on rental property non taxdeductable ?
That would be a sure-fire way to get a massive rent increase throughout the country.
Landlords will not make a loss on their investments, so will pass on any financial problems to the tenants. This is also why a capital gains tax is unfavorable.



House comes with extra layer of foil in the walls for insulation and UV heat lamps for added warmth plus an all year tan.
Hopefully with the "specially wired" electricity meter too?:Punk:

[swarfie]

So on Friday are you going to catch a ferry to Whangarai?

Mumble, mumble, mumble....I fecking HATE riding through there....mumble, mumble, mumble

[Voltaire]

Mumble, mumble, mumble....I fecking HATE riding through there....mumble, mumble, mumble

Its got a lot worse lately, been a crawl from Drury in last couple of times.

Its all those bods from the provinces coming up looking for investment properties :lol:

[nodrog]

Mumble, mumble, mumble....I fecking HATE riding through there....mumble, mumble, mumble

why the fuck are you going to whanagrainy? its sucks ever since I moved out.

[Laava]

why the fuck are you going to whanagrainy? its sucks ever since I moved out.

I am only staying here in hope of your imminent return!
That and so I can hang out with axehole and learn all about bikes from him.
And fuel economy.

[Laava]

Mumble, mumble, mumble....I fecking HATE riding through there....mumble, mumble, mumble

The worst feature of northland.

[Voltaire]

The worst feature of northland.

I thought it was the one lane bridges strangling economic growth.....:innocent:

The more lanes your bridges have the more successful your economy....note Auckland has 8 lanes :whistle:

[Laava]

We do actually have a four lane bridge in whangas. Sadly, this does not equate to half of the auckland economic growth.
On a plus, we do not have traffic congestion. North of wellsford anyway.

[Gadget1]

We do actually have a four lane bridge in whangas. Sadly, this does not equate to half of the auckland economic growth.
On a plus, we do not have traffic congestion. North of wellsford anyway.


Wellsford certainly isn't the quiet little town it used to be.

I rode the Paparoa-Oakleigh road recently as I hadn't been up that way for years. It was great!

[Voltaire]

We do actually have a four lane bridge in whangas. Sadly, this does not equate to half of the auckland economic growth.
On a plus, we do not have traffic congestion. North of wellsford anyway.

are there two Harley Boat tails up your way ?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-603356742.htm

[swarfie]

why the fuck are you going to whanagrainy? its sucks ever since I moved out.

Precisely the reason I'm going there...because you're NOT there....ya nosey bugger:killingme

[nodrog]

Precisely the reason I'm going there...because you're NOT there....ya nosey bugger:killingme

Buying a harley boat tail?

[swarfie]

Buying a harley boat tail?

Yeah right...wouldn't be seen dead on the POS
You trying to wind me up?...It worked:baby:

[sidecar bob]

Yeah right...wouldn't be seen dead on the POS
You trying to wind me up?...It worked:baby:

You have to drop in on Daves welding, (boat tail 60k bloke) you might learn something about engineering of the non precision type, but I doubt it.

[Voltaire]

Yeah right...wouldn't be seen dead on the POS
You trying to wind me up?...It worked:baby:

here is the Trade Me Add


THIS BIKE IS RUNNING ORSUM !!! OFF TO GET A WOF/REG IN NEXT FEW DAYS.!!..NEW BRAKE FLUID/BATTERY/FORK OIL,ETC... ONLY ONE FOR SALE IN N.ZED,!!! I have here a very rare WILLIE-G FACTORY BOATAIL SUPERGLIDE,FX; [has MATCHING NUMBERS..!!]which for any harley nut will no this is one rare bike. (beleived to be the ONLY ONE in NZ,AS NO ONE HAS SPOKEN UP...!!)rego on HOLD.THIS IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE '1st NITETRAIN'!!!
95% original. ...[MOST R ONLY SEEN IN MUSEIUMS !! ...,HAVE U EVER SEEN ONE LIVE !!! ONLY GOING TO BECOME RARER AS TIME GOES ON.] this 1 has been used till the last few years.it is in fairly good original condition with the odd extra bits of chrome.has orginal juice drum rear brake.[may trade/swop a 56 f100 v8 plus $$.,or other V8,COUPES ONLY, [nun ov those front wealdrive bitsa shit lol] dodge challenger/roadrunner/charger,MAY­BE CORVETE AN CASH!!]ps....,this HARLEYS kick start only as these didnt come out with electric start.[but starts easly]ie;A REAL MANS BIKE!..IE ; IF U CANT KICK IT U DONT RIDE IT....!!!!. may swop motor sailer or boat...

may put on ebay later if no interest in new zealand.[ps; the 'FLYING LADY' is going on another bike.] this is kool old skool !!.....shit 70 watchers,.28521 !!!! veiws!! p s.IM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR VEIWS..!! KEEP THEM TO UR SELF !!! [or join the others on my BLACKLIST.] GOOGLE 71/72 SUPER GLIDE.!!.
MAY KONCIDA BMW R90S AS PART EXCHANGE

[Laava]

are there two Harley Boat tails up your way ?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-603356742.htm

No, I have a boat tail kit on my suzuki.

[gjm]

House prices are rising because realestate agents (4% commission on the first $500k, 2% thereafter) keep telling sellers they can get more for a given property. Across the board increases in advertised prices leads to a perception that prices are rising, meaning buyers (those that can) indebt themselves for longer and for more money to buy.

The agents win. If house prices crash, they'll sell house on behalf of the mortgage lender and make more money.

So you sit in a car you borrowed money to buy, on a road on the way to make more money for someone else, so you get some money to pay for that car, so you can pay the mortgage on the house you spend less and less time in.

[mada]

House prices are rising because realestate agents (4% commission on the first $500k, 2% thereafter) keep telling sellers they can get more for a given property. Across the board increases in advertised prices leads to a perception that prices are rising, meaning buyers (those that can) indebt themselves for longer and for more money to buy.

The agents win. If house prices crash, they'll sell house on behalf of the mortgage lender and make more money.

So you sit in a car you borrowed money to buy, on a road on the way to make more money for someone else, so you get some money to pay for that car, so you can pay the mortgage on the house you spend less and less time in.

That and a lot of Real Estate agents are in the game themselves... ie are property investors buying up large - inflating prices which they benefit from when their clients houses sell at a higher price.

Win win win!

[mashman]

House prices are rising because realestate agents (4% commission on the first $500k, 2% thereafter) keep telling sellers they can get more for a given property. Across the board increases in advertised prices leads to a perception that prices are rising, meaning buyers (those that can) indebt themselves for longer and for more money to buy.

The agents win. If house prices crash, they'll sell house on behalf of the mortgage lender and make more money.

So you sit in a car you borrowed money to buy, on a road on the way to make more money for someone else, so you get some money to pay for that car, so you can pay the mortgage on the house you spend less and less time in.

You wapscallion.

http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/770448335/stwike_him_centurion_fun_shirt.jpg?height=250&width=250&padToSquare=true

[mossy1200]

Its worth is what someone will pay for it. Prices increase because people pay the increased price.

[sidecar bob]

House prices are rising because realestate agents (4% commission on the first $500k, 2% thereafter) keep telling sellers they can get more for a given property. Across the board increases in advertised prices leads to a perception that prices are rising, meaning buyers (those that can) indebt themselves for longer and for more money to buy.

The agents win. If house prices crash, they'll sell house on behalf of the mortgage lender and make more money.

So you sit in a car you borrowed money to buy, on a road on the way to make more money for someone else, so you get some money to pay for that car, so you can pay the mortgage on the house you spend less and less time in.

I have now done nine property deals, purchases & sales included without using an agent. Apart from the seller feeling able to give you a better price because they are not having to fork out a fortune in agents fees for essentially nothing you can't do for yourself, there is also a great calm & direct dialogue between seller & buyer, without some third party muppet constantly popping their worthless head up creating a lot of pushing shoving & angst in a vain attempt to justify their worth.

[swarfie]

You have to drop in on Daves welding, (boat tail 60k bloke) you might learn something about engineering of the non precision type, but I doubt it.

I'm sure his "engineering" is ORSUM :tugger:

[blue rider]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/271023/key-denies-akl-housing-crisis


The average price for a three bedroom home in the old Auckland city boundaries now stands at over $1 million.
Prime Minister John key acknowledged the rise in house prices in the city were unsustainable, but said there was no crisis.
"No, I don't think you can call it a crisis. What you can say though is that Auckland house prices have been rising, and rising too quickly actually."



bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahah

[Ocean1]

"For a builder wanting to construct a new house or do renovations on an existing one they will need to get consents, need to ensure their power tools have been "tested and tagged" every three months, need to erect a scaffold or handrail if they are working at more than one metre which can can add thousands of dollars and many extra days to a job. The needs go on. For professionals who have already gone through a Licensed Building Practitioner accreditation to ensure they are qualified still need more process at every step."


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/68381781/builders-buried-under-mountains-of-compliance

[mossy1200]

"For a builder wanting to construct a new house or do renovations on an existing one they will need to get consents, need to ensure their power tools have been "tested and tagged" every three months, need to erect a scaffold or handrail if they are working at more than one metre which can can add thousands of dollars and many extra days to a job. The needs go on. For professionals who have already gone through a Licensed Building Practitioner accreditation to ensure they are qualified still need more process at every step."


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/68381781/builders-buried-under-mountains-of-compliance

Got to fill out a JSA, working and height permit and inform workplace NZ to lift the boom arm and clean a camera dome. Used to be a 20min job. Bonus is I can charge 2hrs now.

[BuzzardNZ]

I've not read any of this thread, but I'm pretty sure why this is the case, my opinion only...

It all started when the POM's wanted 2 come to NZ thru the 90's till now. Their £ was like 3 to 1 at the time, so kiwi house owners were only too happy to sell to them at a profit. I seriously believe this started the boom. I kinda also blame LOTR as that seems to have put NZ on the map as a desirable place to live.

Next, NZ imports loads of g00ks and nargs and those kunts can seem to afford the inflated prices ( by the POMs ) as they fit 20 odd people into a home to make ends meet.

Long story short, your 1st real kiwi home buyer is fucked, too much competition from the above, don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm living the nigthmare :mad:
Born and breed 4th ( maybe 5th who fucking knows ) gen NZér from Wellington, who doesn't wanna settle for Naenae, Porirua, Waihphetu, nor Wainuiomata.

[mada]

I've not read any of this thread, but I'm pretty sure why this is the case, my opinion only...

It all started when the POM's wanted 2 come to NZ thru the 90's till now. Their £ was like 3 to 1 at the time, so kiwi house owners were only too happy to sell to them at a profit. I seriously believe this started the boom. I kinda also blame LOTR as that seems to have put NZ on the map as a desirable place to live.

Next, NZ imports loads of g00ks and nargs and those kunts can seem to afford the inflated prices ( by the POMs ) as they fit 20 odd people into a home to make ends meet.

Long story short, your 1st real kiwi home buyer is fucked, too much competition from the above, don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm living the nigthmare :mad:
Born and breed 4th ( maybe 5th who fucking knows ) gen NZér from Wellington, who doesn't wanna settle for Naenae, Porirua, Waihphetu, nor Wainuiomata.

Nah based on that narrative it started in 1800's. Good to have some mana whenua input here though. :corn:

[gjm]

It all started when the POM's wanted 2 come to NZ thru the 90's till now. Their £ was like 3 to 1 at the time, so kiwi house owners were only too happy to sell to them at a profit. I seriously believe this started the boom.

When we started looking at leaving the sceptic isles of GB, I think the rates were $3.24 to £1. By the time we got here, it was well under $2 to £1 - the delay was courtesy of call-centre type information processing morons. The total cost of moving here ran to £0000s (immigration and relocation), much paid to the NZ government. (It'd take a long time to explain, but believe me - it was a long and painful process.)

So, yes, I confess the exchange rate was an initial attraction, but by the time we got here it made no difference whatsoever. As we were moving for quality of life and not financial gain or 'things', it didn't matter (so much) to us. But, I agree, that really won't have helped.


Next, NZ imports loads of g00ks and nargs and those kunts can seem to afford the inflated prices ( by the POMs ) as they fit 20 odd people into a home to make ends meet.

This. This is so true. It's frustrating, but it is their way of life, and their way of making things work - I wouldn't want to share a house with a dozen other people (and I don't think it would work for us), but I suppose it is an option. The biggest export from China and India is people, and I've heard someone say there are more islanders living here than in the islands; there was some talk a while ago about the Chinese government actually paying people to leave the country.

So, while I cannot possibly claim any sort of NZ heritage, I (like to) think we're here for the right reasons. We'll always be ex-pat poms in the eyes of many, but we're keen to be Kiwis too. We have no preconceptions or pretence to be Brits abroad... We moved to NZ, so we live like Kiwis (unlike, perhaps, too many other immigrants). Doesn't help - we're in exactly the same situation as so many others. We work hard, earn respectable money, but can't get close to starting to buy anything.

It's very frustrating. And I moan too much about it.

[TheDemonLord]

Long story short, your 1st real kiwi home buyer is fucked, too much competition from the above, don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm living the nigthmare :mad:


Yet, I did this....

Its easier to blame other people for inflating the price than to compromise on where you want to live vs where you can afford to live :rolleyes:

[sidecar bob]

Long story short, your 1st real kiwi home buyer is fucked, too much competition from the above, don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm living the nigthmare :mad:
Born and breed 4th ( maybe 5th who fucking knows ) gen NZér from Wellington, who doesn't wanna settle for Naenae, Porirua, Waihphetu, nor Wainuiomata.

You can afford a home, but by your own admission, there's quite a lot that is beneath your minimum expectation. Good luck with that attitude & trying to get off to a start on the fourth rung of the ladder.
My first home was a relocated 50's plaster two bedroom place, in an average part of town. I made 119k on that in the early 90's, it served the purpose of keeping me warm & dry while not paying rent & was a vital first step in what has been an interesting & worthwhile trip on the property investment ladder.
Take a punt on an old shitter in a half decent street, what's the worst that could happen? you end up with a place to live & the "rent" goes back to you.
Or you can tidy it up while living in it, then put a tenant in it to continue to pay it off, get it revalued, use your newly realised equity in it, which will include the deposit you put on it, plus the added value you put into it by tidying it up, as a deposit on a nicer place that better suits your needs & expectations. Later sell it without using a worthless & expensive estate agent & use the money you pull out of it to bang a hole in the mortgage of the second place, or keep it as an investment property. (Absolute minimum two year plan)
Yes, it does take some ball bag, but if you are not a wanker about it, you should be ok. Being a wanker includes trying to have the latest & best of everything, cars, bikes & appliances etc on tick while you are trying to achieve this, the cool stuff will come later once you have established yourself.

[neels]

You can afford a home, but by your own admission, there's quite a lot that is beneath your minimum expectation. Good luck with that attitude & trying to get off to a start on the fourth rung of the ladder.
My first home was a relocated 50's plaster two bedroom place, in an average part of town. I made 119k on that in the early 90's, it served the purpose of keeping me warm & dry while not paying rent & was a vital first step in what has been an interesting & worthwhile trip on the property investment ladder.
Take a punt on an old shitter in a half decent street, what's the worst that could happen? you end up with a place to live & the "rent" goes back to you.
Or you can tidy it up while living in it, then put a tenant in it to continue to pay it off, get it revalued, use your newly realised equity in it, which will include the deposit you put on it, plus the added value you put into it by tidying it up, as a deposit on a nicer place that better suits your needs & expectations. Later sell it without using a worthless & expensive estate agent & use the money you pull out of it to bang a hole in the mortgage of the second place, or keep it as an investment property. (Absolute minimum two year plan)
Yes, it does take some ball bag, but if you are not a wanker about it, you should be ok. Being a wanker includes trying to have the latest & best of everything, cars, bikes & appliances etc on tick while you are trying to achieve this, the cool stuff will come later once you have established yourself.
I agree with pretty much all of the above, it can be done, and plenty of the young fellas that work for me are doing it.

I remember me and the missus moving into our first flat with a bed, a free couch and a 14" tv sitting on a beer crate to furnish the place, seems a long way back now but time and a shitload of work has life looking pretty good now. The deposit for our first house came from saving 10% of our net income for 10 years, as well as me working a second job, so I struggle to have too much sympathy for people with $1000 cellphones and cars worth more than any car I've ever owned on finance along with a houseful of furniture and a home theatre system and a gaming computer complaining they can't save a deposit.

I don't think I'll ever know what it's like to walk into a brand new house, I just can't bring myself to pay the premium when there are so many houses out there that can have so much value added with a bit of time and money, I guess that means I'll also never know what it's like to have a house with the butlers pantry that seems to be so essential in a first home these days.

[98tls]

so I struggle to have too much sympathy for people with $1000 cellphones and cars worth more than any car I've ever owned on finance along with a houseful of furniture and a home theatre system and a gaming computer complaining they can't save a deposit.

They wont need your sympathy fella all they will need is more of your hard earned in the form of another fuck up akin to the so called working for families,i have no doubt that within the next decade or so that having a child will give you far more than some cash to put in the pokies or help out with the car payments it will indeed put a roof over your head.Fwiw the ones that crack me up the most are those with the cellphones and no car:lol::weird:

[neels]

They wont need your sympathy fella all they will need is more of your hard earned in the form of another fuck up akin to the so called working for families,i have no doubt that that within the next decade or so that having a child will give you far more than some cash to put in the pokies or help out with the car payments it will indeed put a roof over your head.Fwiw the ones that crack me up the most are those with the cellphones and no car:lol::weird:
They're already getting enough of my money thanks.

When we had our kids there there was no working for families, no free doctors visits, no paid maternity leave, no free childcare, no free money from the government to buy your first house. I guess at least I can have the satisfaction when I go to sleep in my fourth house, which is almost up to the standard of a lot of peoples expectation of their first house, that everything I have I've earned myself.

[5ive]

I agree, these fucking young scum these days. Paying for their own education, high rents, high cost of living, and low paying jobs. They practically have no rights to home ownership or a comfortable retirement. They deserve everything they get.

In my day I had to walk 10 kilometers to school in the snow in bare feet, and in summer my PE teacher used to abuse me.

[mada]

I agree, these fucking young scum these days. Paying for their own education, high rents, high cost of living, and low paying jobs. They practically have no rights to home ownership or a comfortable retirement. They deserve everything they get.

In my day I had to walk 10 kilometers to school in the snow in bare feet, and in summer my PE teacher used to abuse me.

Totally agree. They're all so lazy, which is why zero hour contracts are the norm.

[mada]

Just bought my first home in Auckland.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/68598011/auckland-house--derelict-and-dangerous--sells-for-677000

with a lifelong mortgage and bit of hard work should come up alrite

[5ive]

Just bought my first home in Auckland.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/68598011/auckland-house--derelict-and-dangerous--sells-for-677000

with a lifelong mortgage and bit of hard work should come up alrite

Congrats!

I'm sure there will be quite a lot of interest from renters once you've done nothing to it, and listed it on Trademe for $700 a week, bargain!

[gjm]

Congrats!

I'm sure there will be quite a lot of interest from renters once you've done nothing to it, and listed it on Trademe for $700 a week, bargain!

$700?

That's cheap...

And that's another reason so many people are struggling to buy a house - all their money has gone on rent. OK, $700 a week may not be cheap, but a 3 bed place in Papakura will run you to $450 a week now. Rent that for 3 years and that's over $70k gone, which even if saved, wouldn't be enough for a 20% deposit.

Some say why buy when you can rent? How're you going to pay that rent when (if) you retire?

[sidecar bob]

I just fuckin laugh at these Aucklanders that think that NZ stops at the top of the bombays.
$677k in Tauranga will get you a modern flash pad in a very nice part of town with a butlers pantry & all it will need for the next ten years is vacuuming & mowing.
Had to laugh when I typed Aucklanders into my IPad just now, the IPad corrected it to Suck Landers. :facepalm:

[gjm]

I just fuckin laugh at these Aucklanders that think that NZ stops at the top of the bombays.
$677k in Tauranga will get you a modern flash pad in a very nice part of town with a butlers pantry & all it will need for the next ten years is vacuuming & mowing.
Had to laugh when I typed Aucklanders into my IPad just now, the IPad corrected it to Suck Landers. :facepalm:

At least a third of the total population of NZ lives in the Auckland region... And more are moving there every day. That's one problem - immigration isn't so much to NZ, but to Auckland. This pushes prices for everything up, meaning more 'middle- and upper-class' people live there. This often translates to votes for a certain political party so they have less incentive to change anything.

Looks like prices in Tauranga have gone up quite dramatically too. When we looked at the area, I was astonished at what we could buy for $450k! Then after 14 months of trying, I was finally offered work south of Auckland which kinda sealed our fate.

[ellipsis]

...while I was getting angry and stressed and feeling like our oldest daughter and family have been fucked over badly and they would probably never, ever be able to own there own roof, they went and bought one...single income, still smiling...I seem to remember that feeling of hopelessness about thirty years ago, that I would never be able to own or buy a property...then we bought one...this is just generational shit that rolls on and on and on...

...if you were not born with a silver spoon, the only way to do it, is...get up in the morning, go to work...repeat...ad nauseum...

[eldog]

At least a third of the total population of NZ lives in the Auckland region... And more are moving there every day. That's one problem - immigration isn't so much to NZ, but to Auckland. This pushes prices for everything up, meaning more 'middle- and upper-class' people live there. This often translates to votes for a certain political party so they have less incentive to change anything.

Looks like prices in Tauranga have gone up quite dramatically too. When we looked at the area, I was astonished at what we could buy for $450k! Then after 14 months of trying, I was finally offered work south of Auckland which kinda sealed our fate.

We need more industry around the place to spread the work around, but transport cost generally kills it.
too many cafes/food places in akl, just what are these people doing for a living? there is no real resources/minerals/forestry/agricultural stuff here.

Tauranga/Papamoa is where all the akl retirees go WFG

14 months - I couldn't last that long

and if you hadn't noticed the value of most of the homes has gone up -> automatic increase in rates.

Not complaining at least they are finishing the western corridor - surprised about the high cross overs intersections at Pt Chev - hope they get the chamber right

[Moi]

At least a third of the total population of NZ lives in the Auckland region... And more are moving there every day. That's one problem - immigration isn't so much to NZ, but to Auckland ... I was finally offered work south of Auckland which kinda sealed our fate.


We need more industry around the place to spread the work around, but transport cost generally kills it ...

Housing in provincial centres is generally far more affordable. But, you need to have employment. And that is as big a problem as the issue of house prices...

[eldog]

Housing in provincial centres is generally far more affordable. But, you need to have employment. And that is as big a problem as the issue of house prices...

+1 - You put it much clearer than I did.

Something to do/make/supply/use = business
Employment
Skills required
housing etc.

Apart from births/living/deaths and taxes which are fixed - I don't see a silver bullet to fix all.

Passed through a lot of places recently - saw lack of employment - also saw some affluent looking areas - Wanganui is a case in point

I know there are a lot of rural people still facing the wall.

My work is always reliant on others, its always been a 1 week till the next type of arrangement. Sometimes feast sometimes famine.

We try and make the most of what we have - often means we go without for the business to survive

We always try and use the best we can afford - we know in the long run it will service us well.


I would be lost without my work and the mbike.

[Zedder]

Housing in provincial centres is generally far more affordable. But, you need to have employment. And that is as big a problem as the issue of house prices...

Yep, I agree.

[Zedder]

+1 - You put it much clearer than I did.

Something to do/make/supply/use = business
Employment
Skills required
housing etc.

Apart from births/living/deaths and taxes which are fixed - I don't see a silver bullet to fix all.

Passed through a lot of places recently - saw lack of employment - also saw some affluent looking areas - Wanganui is a case in point

I know there are a lot of rural people still facing the wall.

My work is always reliant on others, its always been a 1 week till the next type of arrangement. Sometimes feast sometimes famine.

We try and make the most of what we have - often means we go without for the business to survive

We always try and use the best we can afford - we know in the long run it will service us well.


I would be lost without my work and the mbike.

Very good post there, good attitude.

[Moi]

I do wonder about people who set up a retail business of some sort, whether it be the $2 shop concept through to a cafe. There are only so many cafes / bars / cheap $2 shops / vacuum cleaner shops that are needed. How many vacuum cleaners does a person need to buy in their life time?

These are not businesses which generally provide employment for a family person - I am ignoring here the traditional family diary or fruit/veg shop or butcher or such like business. Businesses which employ people with skills [doesn't need to be a trade skill, just the skill to do a job well] seem to be disappearing from the provinces, that is certainly the impression I have gained from travelling round the North Island over the last few years. Yes, Hamilton and Tauranga/the Mount, Palmerston North and New Plymouth still appear to have many such businesses but what about the many other places?

So if these "skill using businesses" are disappearing, what are people supposed to do for a job? It must be extremely disheartening for people in the traditional service centres seeing businesses close and being told they have to go to the main centre some distance away - what do they do for a job? what about the kids going through the local high school?

Don't give me the "they could set up on their own" - some people are not business people.

[eldog]

Very good post there, good attitude.
:Offtopic:
good attitude at the moment

I have massive swings UP and down - (issues 99% of my own making- I take on way more than I can do.)
Currently on an upswing - getting shit done, which I have been leaving - doing it on my own is great :)

I am a loner who thinks way too much.... hence the mbike to get away from it all and concentrate on were I am at that moment (nothing else)
I don't do drugs (maybe I should) don't drink much alcohol, try not to get into trouble
I currently have 15 people and their families (more if including customers) who rely on me to supply work to them.
I have help but most things come down to me.

some days I just like to be by myself - even if there is a group/party in the house
some days I want to be part of a group
some days I only want just to be close to friends
some days....

that's why I only have a very select group of people become my close friends - I can be a bit difficult to understand for most people

[Gadget1]

I do wonder about people who set up a retail business of some sort, whether it be the $2 shop concept through to a cafe. There are only so many cafes / bars / cheap $2 shops / vacuum cleaner shops that are needed. How many vacuum cleaners does a person need to buy in their life time?

These are not businesses which generally provide employment for a family person - I am ignoring here the traditional family diary or fruit/veg shop or butcher or such like business. Businesses which employ people with skills [doesn't need to be a trade skill, just the skill to do a job well] seem to be disappearing from the provinces, that is certainly the impression I have gained from travelling round the North Island over the last few years. Yes, Hamilton and Tauranga/the Mount, Palmerston North and New Plymouth still appear to have many such businesses but what about the many other places?

So if these "skill using businesses" are disappearing, what are people supposed to do for a job? It must be extremely disheartening for people in the traditional service centres seeing businesses close and being told they have to go to the main centre some distance away - what do they do for a job? what about the kids going through the local high school?

Don't give me the "they could set up on their own" - some people are not business people.

I'm researching lifestyle blocks and self sufficiency currently. It's a very interesting subject.

[eldog]

I do wonder about people who set up a retail business of some sort, whether it be the $2 shop concept through to a cafe. There are only so many cafes / bars / cheap $2 shops / vacuum cleaner shops that are needed. How many vacuum cleaners does a person need to buy in their life time?

These are not businesses which generally provide employment for a family person - I am ignoring here the traditional family diary or fruit/veg shop or butcher or such like business. Businesses which employ people with skills [doesn't need to be a trade skill, just the skill to do a job well] seem to be disappearing from the provinces, that is certainly the impression I have gained from travelling round the North Island over the last few years. Yes, Hamilton and Tauranga/the Mount, Palmerston North and New Plymouth still appear to have many such businesses but what about the many other places?

So if these "skill using businesses" are disappearing, what are people supposed to do for a job? It must be extremely disheartening for people in the traditional service centres seeing businesses close and being told they have to go to the main centre some distance away - what do they do for a job? what about the kids going through the local high school?

Don't give me the "they could set up on their own" - some people are not business people.

totally agree here, businesses seem to be getting smaller too. Not thinking about the dairy side of things (Fonterra types)

[Zedder]

I'm researching lifestyle blocks and self sufficiency currently. It's a very interesting subject.

Yep, my wife and I are into that as well.

[Zedder]

:Offtopic:
good attitude at the moment

I have massive swings UP and down - (issues 99% of my own making- I take on way more than I can do.)
Currently on an upswing - getting shit done, which I have been leaving - doing it on my own is great :)

I am a loner who thinks way too much.... hence the mbike to get away from it all and concentrate on were I am at that moment (nothing else)
I don't do drugs (maybe I should) don't drink much alcohol, try not to get into trouble
I currently have 15 people and their families (more if including customers) who rely on me to supply work to them.
I have help but most things come down to me.

some days I just like to be by myself - even if there is a group/party in the house
some days I want to be part of a group
some days I only want just to be close to friends
some days....

that's why I only have a very select group of people become my close friends - I can be a bit difficult to understand for most people

All looks very human to me.

[sidecar bob]

I'm researching lifestyle blocks and self sufficiency currently. It's a very interesting subject.

Banks are seriously fuckin shy of lifestylers. You will need a far bigger deposit (if you need to borrow money at all) than for a conventional residential home.

[sidecar bob]

All looks very human to me.

What I was thinking. Sounds like a busy man with pressures & responsibilities. S.N.A.F.U.
must learn to multi quote.

[Ocean1]

I do wonder about people who set up a retail business of some sort, whether it be the $2 shop concept through to a cafe. There are only so many cafes / bars / cheap $2 shops / vacuum cleaner shops that are needed. How many vacuum cleaners does a person need to buy in their life time?

These are not businesses which generally provide employment for a family person - I am ignoring here the traditional family diary or fruit/veg shop or butcher or such like business. Businesses which employ people with skills [doesn't need to be a trade skill, just the skill to do a job well] seem to be disappearing from the provinces, that is certainly the impression I have gained from travelling round the North Island over the last few years. Yes, Hamilton and Tauranga/the Mount, Palmerston North and New Plymouth still appear to have many such businesses but what about the many other places?

So if these "skill using businesses" are disappearing, what are people supposed to do for a job? It must be extremely disheartening for people in the traditional service centres seeing businesses close and being told they have to go to the main centre some distance away - what do they do for a job? what about the kids going through the local high school?

Don't give me the "they could set up on their own" - some people are not business people.

It's certainly easier for large businesses to manage the increasingly complex compliance and admin costs than a small business. That alone tends to put SMEs at a disadvantage, and in the long run economies of scale for most supply businesses sees them gone.

It's the one thing I think needs to change if we're serious about improving business start-ups and reducing attrition amongst SMEs, and we need that, they represent 80% of the country's GDP.

But saying some people aren't business people is akin to saying some people aren't good at breathing, if they can't manage the hassles of managing themselves then why should they expect anyone else to do it for them?

[Gadget1]

Banks are seriously fuckin shy of lifestylers. You will need a far bigger deposit (if you need to borrow money at all) than for a conventional residential home.

It's a different scenario alright. Nothing's put me off yet though.

[gjm]

And, in a complete about face, JK has announced capital gains tax on properties sold within two years of the purchase, and also investigation into reducing the effects of overseas buyers purchasing NZ property.

He has not, of course, acknowledged there may be an issue with housing in Auckland.

(Not at all) odd that National are now implementing one of the policies that ensured Labour didn't get a larger share of the vote at the election.

[Voltaire]

And, in a complete about face, JK has announced capital gains tax on properties sold within two years of the purchase, and also investigation into reducing the effects of overseas buyers purchasing NZ property.

He has not, of course, acknowledged there may be an issue with housing in Auckland.

(Not at all) odd that National are now implementing one of the policies that ensured Labour didn't get a larger share of the vote at the election.

I did find it interesting that the so called foreigners did not need to have an IRD number and NZ bank account....so they buy these houses and leave them empty...?

Far easier to get IRD to chase average Kiwi bloke than large companies and rich people.

They are just clarifying the " intent" part of buying a house as an investment.

Labour :killingme:killingme:killingme

[gjm]

I did find it interesting that the so called foreigners did not need to have an IRD number and NZ bank account....so they buy these houses and leave them empty...?

Far easier to get IRD to chase average Kiwi bloke than large companies and rich people.

They are just clarifying the " intent" part of buying a house as an investment.

Labour :killingme:killingme:killingme

The IRD number bit may come later - a belated attempt to curb investment from overseas. At the moment there are known to be a lot of overseas 'investors' buying property, renting it out, and taking the money 'home'. When they sell, it will be because (even) they can't rent out the rundown house they've done no maintenance on, but because prices are rising they'll still make a profit.

Interesting I thought, that while the media and everyone else is calling this a capital gains tax, JK is assuring everyone it isn't a tax on capital gains. :wacko:

And completely contrary to his position a mere week or two ago, he referred to the housing "issue" on TV this morning.

[sidecar bob]

The primary dwelling thing is merely a chicane, just put it in a relations name & get that persons mail sent there, im sure that part wont slow the Chinese down for a second.

[sidecar bob]

The IRD number bit may come later - a belated attempt to curb investment from overseas. At the moment there are known to be a lot of overseas 'investors' buying property, renting it out, and taking the money 'home'. When they sell, it will be because (even) they can't rent out the rundown house they've done no maintenance on, but because prices are rising they'll still make a profit.

Interesting I thought, that while the media and everyone else is calling this a capital gains tax, JK is assuring everyone it isn't a tax on capital gains. :wacko:

And completely contrary to his position a mere week or two ago, he referred to the housing "issue" on TV this morning.

A tax on capital gains is a capital gains tax by any other name, a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

[nodrog]

A tax on capital gains is a capital gains tax by any other name, a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

Yeah but its a pig that is slighty more fuckable than a normal pig.

[Zedder]

Yeah but its a pig that is slighty more fuckable than a normal pig.

Has Akzle hacked nodrog's account?

[husaberg]

Has Akzle hacked nodrog's account?
Hacked with a machete would be more appropriate
Axel needs intro music though
<iframe width="554" height="310" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8L6KGuTr9TI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.chapmantripp.com/publications/Pages/New-Zealand-now-an-attractive-tax-location.aspx

[James Deuce]

Just used Treasury's inflation calculator to price out the house Mum & Dad built in Glenfield for 8000 pound all up in 1967. Comes out at $284,000.

Median value for that street is $704,000. They sold it about 8-9 years ago for ~$360,000.

[pete376403]

Comment heard on NatRad this arvo about this Claytons Capital Gains tax - it will be largely ineffective, but when then bubble bursts it will be used by National to prove they "didn't do nothing about the housing crisis"

[Ocean1]

Is pretty straight forward, if you're in the business of trading houses then you should be paying tax on income generated by that business. That's the way it's been for yonks, they're just tightening the definitions around "business".

And I think 2 years is about the time you should be pinged for it, no excuses.

None of which has anything to do with a CGT across the whole residential market.

[gjm]

Comment heard on NatRad this arvo about this Claytons Capital Gains tax - it will be largely ineffective, but when then bubble bursts it will be used by National to prove they "didn't do nothing about the housing crisis"

It's unlikely to make much difference. Lip service, at best. How will NZ tax someone who isn't registered in NZ for tax?
The requirement for an IRD number on the various forms will cause people to think a little harder, but is hardly an insurmountable hurdle.

They're really not trying very hard. But having said they wouldn't implement a CGT - which is why JK is so adamant this isn't a CGT, they've tried to find a balance between not penalising their supporters, and being seen to do something. Even if most people will see it as being as ineffective as it is.

JK's done so many U-turns recently, he must be getting dizzy by now.

[Banditbandit]

They're really not trying very hard. But having said they wouldn't implement a CGT - which is why JK is so adamant this isn't a CGT, they've tried to find a balance between not penalising their supporters, and being seen to do something. Even if most people will see it as being as ineffective as it is.

JK's done so many U-turns recently, he must be getting dizzy by now.

And yet .. and yet .. people keep supporting him .. even (or maybe and) the dickheads here ..

[TheDemonLord]

And yet .. and yet .. people keep supporting him .. even (or maybe and) the dickheads here ..

Support is a strong word, I would go more with he is the most competent leader out of a bunch of utterly incompetent politicians

[Banditbandit]

Support is a strong word, I would go more with he is the most competent leader out of a bunch of utterly incompetent politicians

Yeah maybe ... but is that any reason to vote for him and his collection of dipshits???

And if he's leading in the wrong direction why follow him ??? Sheeple ...

[SPman]

Support is a strong word, I would go more with he is the most competent leader out of a bunch of utterly incompetent politicians He's competent at pulling the wool over the eyes of the bulk of the population. Voting for the percieved best of a bad bunch is still voting for a bad bunch!
Better not to vote at all. Voting seldom changes anything!

[sidecar bob]

Yeah maybe ... but is that any reason to vote for him and his collection of dipshits???

And if he's leading in the wrong direction why follow him ??? Sheeple ...

So who should we all vote for & why?

[Oscar]

Yeah maybe ... but is that any reason to vote for him and his collection of dipshits???

And if he's leading in the wrong direction why follow him ??? Sheeple ...

He's not going in the wrong direction.
He's entered into a "steady as you go" phase which is almost a dead stop.
I still prefer this to the direction the various opposition parties want us to go...

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah maybe ... but is that any reason to vote for him and his collection of dipshits???

And if he's leading in the wrong direction why follow him ??? Sheeple ...

Going in a direction is better than having the wheels fall off and being stuck on the side of the road....

[Banditbandit]

So who should we all vote for & why?

Don't ask this old anarchist - I protest vote .. wouldn't vote FOR any of the fuckers .. but I can't not vote .. too many people died to get the vote ..



He's not going in the wrong direction.
He's entered into a "steady as you go" phase which is almost a dead stop.
I still prefer this to the direction the various opposition parties want us to go...

Yeah . I can get that .. I do get that you will never agree with me on politics .. you have your views and make your stand. I'm happy with that.

Most people just follow .. that's what I don't get .. just sheeple ... bleat on about the Government them vote them back in ...


Going in a direction is better than having the wheels fall off and being stuck on the side of the road....

No it's not ... especially if that direction is off a cliff (metaphor - not to be likened to the national party direction) Going in a Communist direction I am sure you would see as wrong - I hope you would see going in a fascist direction would also be wrong ...

Going in the direction that sells our country to overseas businesses and overseas people would also be wrong.

[sidecar bob]

Don't ask this old anarchist - I protest vote .. wouldn't vote FOR any of the fuckers .. but I can't not vote .. too many people died to get the vote ..



Bugger, I got the impression you had an idea on who was better than the current chaps.

[Banditbandit]

Bugger, I got the impression you had an idea on who was better than the current chaps.


I think the left - Labour, Greens - might make a better job of it .. but fucking politicians, can't trust any of the buggers, not enough to vote FOR them ... but hey, I'm biased ... as are we all ...

[TheDemonLord]

No it's not ... especially if that direction is off a cliff (metaphor - not to be likened to the national party direction) Going in a Communist direction I am sure you would see as wrong - I hope you would see going in a fascist direction would also be wrong ...

Going in the direction that sells our country to overseas businesses and overseas people would also be wrong.

both a communist or a fascist direction is better then a country suffering a financial crisis and imploding (granted not much better, but still)

[Banditbandit]

both a communist or a fascist direction is better then a country suffering a financial crisis and imploding (granted not much better, but still)

So you think the massive increase in Government overseas debt under this National-led Government (nearly $30billion) is not heading towards financial implosion ???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg/578px-NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg.png

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand

[TheDemonLord]

So you think the massive increase in Government overseas debt under this National-led Government (nearly $30billion) is not heading towards financial implosion ???


No, I'm saying that under any other combination of Government, it would be worse!

[Oscar]

So you think the massive increase in Government overseas debt under this National-led Government (nearly $30billion) is not heading towards financial implosion ???



Adjusted for inflation, the 1990 debt is roughly NZ$32b.
So where's the increase?

Actually NZ's public debt to GDP ratio is very good at about 41%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Much better than the UK, US and Singapore, not as good as Australia.

[Voltaire]

both a communist or a fascist direction is better then a country suffering a financial crisis and imploding (granted not much better, but still)

No, been to Soviet era Communist countries and I like it here as it is. Frankly no hopers are going to be no hopers whatever Govt you have.:baby:

[gjm]

Adjusted for inflation, the 1990 debt is roughly NZ$32b.

That suggests it is even worse, as a more-or-less static debt was maintained until 2008(ish) after which it increased rather dramatically. Of course, 2008 was (I think) around the time that the NZ $ started to get much stronger against other currencies, too.

As a % of GDP, NZ debt went from 36% down to 17.5% under Labour, and under National it's back to where Labour started, and climbing.

[SPman]

both a communist or a fascist direction is better then a country suffering a financial crisis and imploding (granted not much better, but still) Hmmmm communist....North Korea.....fascist....USA . both suffering financial crisis and both on the verge of imploding.........

[Ocean1]

The cost of "safety".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/70261429/new-zealand-initiative-claims-scaffolding-costs-stoking-housing-crisis

My industry sources say 15% is about right...

[Naki Rat]

Adjusted for inflation, the 1990 debt is roughly NZ$32b.
So where's the increase?

Actually NZ's public debt to GDP ratio is very good at about 41%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Much better than the UK, US and Singapore, not as good as Australia.
Speaking of Singapore: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-14/china-s-economic-troubles-start-to-spread
And the relevance is that China's dose of economic 'flu' has NZ and many others starting to develop 'sniffles' :(

[Banditbandit]

The cost of "safety".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/70261429/new-zealand-initiative-claims-scaffolding-costs-stoking-housing-crisis

My industry sources say 15% is about right...

So .. what is a human life worth and how much are we prepared to spend saving one ???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/7760714/Construction-injury-rates-mean-50-deaths-by-2018


If the Kiwi construction industry's woeful current injury rates play out during the Canterbury rebuild, by 2018 about 50 people will die on Canterbury work sites, Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson says.

[James Deuce]

So .. what is a human life worth and how much are we prepared to spend saving one ???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/7760714/Construction-injury-rates-mean-50-deaths-by-2018

It's completely conditional. If you:

1. Earn less than 6 figures a year because you don't work hard enough
2. Have mental health issues
3. Suffer from a disease viewed as self-inlficted or easily avoided if you just had more willpower
4. Ride a motorcycle
5. Are a pensioner
6. Are a beneficiary of any kind
7. Disabled

Then the answer is: absolutely nothing.

[awa355]

Another view of the cost of housing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11482648

[Moi]

So .. what is a human life worth and how much are we prepared to spend saving one ???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/7760714/Construction-injury-rates-mean-50-deaths-by-2018

Is the Minister really concerned about making the workplace safer or saving ACC $80 million? If the former then paragraph two would not need to continue beyond the comma...

[Voltaire]

it
Another view of the cost of housing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11482648

I suppose back the olden days a bank was where savers put money and then once banks had enough the could lend some out at a margin.

I doubt they get much in the way of savings these days,

As for everyone bleating on about " racism" every time you say Chinese are buying lots of property...that's pathetic.

There are now millions of wealthy Chinese and they are getting it out of China, buying property all over the world. We'd probably do it too in the same circumstances.

We're a soft touch as anyone can buy property here, and amazingly they were not even tracking it ( they say) up till recently.

China wont let non residents buy property, and that applies to non residents from other states/provinces, its just common sense to avoid what's happening in Auckland

The rest of the country may say who cares about Auckland but that might change when Aucklander's start buying up Hamilton and Towelronger ( its probably already happening)

As for Health and Safety pushing up the prices, as a former climber up triple extension ladders and working of roofs great that that's no longer acceptable.

However getting a bill for $650 for two guys to go up a 3 metre ladder to isolate a Fan Coil Unit heater is hard to explain to the Client.

[Woodman]

My house needs painting. Its 2 storey with a high peaked roof on a hill.

Was asking a guy in the trade what it would cost to paint, and he advised that I do it myself because the scaffolding that the painters will have to use will cost shitloads. If I do it myself then I can take all the risks I want:innocent:

[Voltaire]

My house needs painting. Its 2 storey with a high peaked roof on a hill.

Was asking a guy in the trade what it would cost to paint, and he advised that I do it myself because the scaffolding that the painters will have to use will cost shitloads. If I do it myself then I can take all the risks I want:innocent:

There is an idea, make SWMS and Permit to Works part of doing DIY at home :cool:

Bunnings/Mitre 10 could do a Course and issues with a " Homesafe Card", which you would need to do any works on your house.

Probably about 5-10 years away from that happening.

[Ocean1]

So .. what is a human life worth and how much are we prepared to spend saving one ???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/7760714/Construction-injury-rates-mean-50-deaths-by-2018

Depends who you ask. Your life? Who's prerogative should it be to price that?

Not the point, though, you bounced right off that. The point is the cost of NZ housing, and associated angst, blame, conspiracy theories etc etc.

And what we're seeing is that the reason house prices are higher than historical figures is that the cost of today's houses includes a lot more than our parents paid for. Primarily double the quantity of house to start with. And a fit-out that would make Lyn of Tawa blush. And the cost of work-related safety.

The OTT safety thing stands out from other increases, though, because not only is it an item the client doesn't necessarily want to pay for but it's an item the supplier often doesn't want to supply either. But, see, ACC didn't bother to check with us if paying for our fuckups automatically gave them the right to dictate how we behave. So does it?

Now, if you want to talk about who decides the price of a life there's a beginning for you. In the meantime you don't get to bitch about the price of housing AND decide that no price is too much to pay to attempt to make the builder safe. Was a time the price was agreed without question between the two parties involved. There's still no reason to involve anyone else in that agreement.

[jasonu]

It's completely conditional. If you:

1. Earn less than 6 figures a year because you don't work hard enough
2. Have mental health issues
3. Suffer from a disease viewed as self-inlficted or easily avoided if you just had more willpower
4. Ride a motorcycle
5. Are a pensioner
6. Are a beneficiary of any kind
7. Disabled
.

8. Brown..

[pete376403]

My house needs painting. Its 2 storey with a high peaked roof on a hill.

Was asking a guy in the trade what it would cost to paint, and he advised that I do it myself because the scaffolding that the painters will have to use will cost shitloads. If I do it myself then I can take all the risks I want:innocent:
Not sure if that is correct. My son is building his own house and was shut down by worksafe because he was not using approved scaffolding

[Ocean1]

Another view of the cost of housing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11482648


it

I suppose back the olden days a bank was where savers put money and then once banks had enough the could lend some out at a margin.

I doubt they get much in the way of savings these days.

Yeah. But fractional rate banking has been around for much longer than the current housing price boom.

And in fact almost all of the "created" money outside of that 17% reserve goes into residential mortgage finance. So by all means blame the banks, but without fractional reserve systems 73% of you wouldn't own your houses.

I notice the article claims new subdivisions aren't the answer to housing price rises. Which is bullshit, if you're serious about house prices then you weed out all of the parasitic costs that've attached themselves to the largest flow of money in the economy and you flick the fuckers to touch. And when new homes are available for the actual cost to supply them then existing house prices will plummet.

[FJRider]

... its just common sense to avoid what's happening in Auckland

The rest of the country may say who cares about Auckland but that might change when Aucklander's start buying up Hamilton and Towelronger ( its probably already happening)



A very large portion of Queenstown is foreign owned.



It is definitly not just an Auckland issue. It's just Aucklanders whinge more ...


And the Chinese are unlikely to ship the property they've bought ... back to China.

The reason they bought it ... is ...

1: Because they CAN ...

2: Because they can afford it ...

3: Because it is legal.

[eldog]

A very large portion of Queenstown is foreign owned.



It is definitly not just an Auckland issue. It's just Aucklanders whinge more ...


And the Chinese are unlikely to ship the property they've bought ... back to China.

The reason they bought it ... is ...

1: Because they CAN ...

2: Because they can afford it ...

3: Because it is legal.

4: They realise it will always hold its value - smart buggers

5: Land ownership is a sign of prestige

6: Can and will generate income via rent

I guess buyers of Queenstown property because it was better than Paradise (full of trendy caravan/mbike owners):corn:

[FJRider]

... I guess buyers of Queenstown property because it was better than Paradise (full of trendy caravan/mbike owners):corn:

It's only half an hour away from Paradise (on a motorbike) ... :msn-wink:

The KIWI's they buy the property FROM ... have NEVER complained about the high prices they were paid ... in ANY area. (funny that)

[jonbuoy]

4: They realise it will always hold its value - smart buggers

5: Land ownership is a sign of prestige

6: Can and will generate income via rent

I guess buyers of Queenstown property because it was better than Paradise (full of trendy caravan/mbike owners):corn:

It will always hold "A" value but maybe not as much as you once paid for it.

[Voltaire]

A very large portion of Queenstown is foreign owned.



It is definitly not just an Auckland issue. It's just Aucklanders whinge more ...


And the Chinese are unlikely to ship the property they've bought ... back to China.

The reason they bought it ... is ...

1: Because they CAN ...

2: Because they can afford it ...

3: Because it is legal.

I wish I had a good as grasp of economics as you.

[swarfie]

The rest of the country may say who cares about Auckland but that might change when Aucklander's start buying up Hamilton and Towelronger ( its probably already happening.

Big full page feature in this mornings Waikato Times stating that something like 40% of all house sales in North Waikato (includes Cambridge, Te Awamutu, Hamilton, Ngaruawahia, and Huntly) are being sold to Auckland buyers whether they be first home buyers or investors. Yep it's already happening and has for some time now.

[Berries]

................. are being sold to Auckland buyers whether they be first home buyers or investors.
That is outright placeist reporting.

[Voltaire]

That is outright placeist reporting.

I'll only believe it when the official list is leaked from those thieving ticket clipping Real Estate agents.

They need to build more Bunning's so I can sell up and move to the provinces an get a job.:woohoo:

I'd be that old bloke in Hardware.

[sidecar bob]

I'll only believe it when the official list is leaked from those thieving ticket clipping Real Estate agents.
.

Yep, the biggest waste of space job invented out of thin air.
Since when do you go into a dairy & ask someone in the shop to tell the dairy owner that you would like a loaf of bread & a bottle of milk & pay that person for the service of speaking to the shopkeeper on your behalf, what a load of fuckin shit.
Someone argued with me the other day that by going to auction she could get 100k over cv for her place. I guaranteed her that she could also achieve that result with a sign outside her house & a ad on trademe.

[sidecar bob]

Big full page feature in this mornings Waikato Times stating that something like 40% of all house sales in North Waikato (includes Cambridge, Te Awamutu, Hamilton, Ngaruawahia, and Huntly) are being sold to Auckland buyers whether they be first home buyers or investors. Yep it's already happening and has for some time now.

We have the same thing going on in Tauranga. It's kind of nice when you have properties & the price is being driven up, but it's not helping my kids for the future.

[Voltaire]

We have the same thing going on in Tauranga. It's kind of nice when you have properties & the price is being driven up, but it's not helping my kids for the future.

Ain't that the truth.:weep:

[Laava]

We have the same thing going on in Tauranga. It's kind of nice when you have properties & the price is being driven up, but it's not helping my kids for the future.

Makes it hard to know when to sell as well! Do we sell now or wait for another year? Do we sell our hard earned investment now and watch some suited investor resell in a years time, without doing anything, pocketing another $200K?

[Voltaire]

Makes it hard to know when to sell as well! Do we sell now or wait for another year? Do we sell our hard earned investment now and watch some suited investor resell in a years time, without doing anything, pocketing another $200K?

Remember the Stockmarket here in the mid 80's and pyramid scams? That's where the Chinese economy is at the moment reading the overseas papers.

[Woodman]

Makes it hard to know when to sell as well! Do we sell now or wait for another year? Do we sell our hard earned investment now and watch some suited investor resell in a years time, without doing anything, pocketing another $200K?

Yeah, but sell and do what. Purchase in the same market, and as long as it is still increasing then all good. Sell and rent or move away for a while and hope that the market goes down and then come back and purchase a better place? Best to stay in the same market, unless of course the ass drops and puts you in a negative equity position, and don't forget the agents ridiculous fees.

[sidecar bob]

Yeah, but sell and do what. Purchase in the same market, and as long as it is still increasing then all good. Sell and rent or move away for a while and hope that the market goes down and then come back and purchase a better place? Best to stay in the same market, unless of course the ass drops and puts you in a negative equity position, and don't forget the agents ridiculous fees.

It all comes back to the same thing. "The only people that worry about money are those with too much & those with not enough"
The market ain't going down, in the long term, not ever.
In 1987 I had a mate & her parents house was worth $275,000, at the same time, my parents house was worth about $75,000. Those houses, the exact ones are now worth $2million & $380,000 respectively.
Imagine if the owners had just put their money in the bank instead at the time.
And fuck the agents & their ridiculous fees, I have done countless property deals without an agent & refuse to buy or sell if they are involved.

[Swoop]

That is outright placeist reporting.
In Auckland it would be Lacist...

... by going to auction...
Bad move. Sale by tender is preferred - THEN revert to sale by auction.