Different helmet shapes for different markets?

[Bassmatt]

I have read and had people tell me, several times, that you shouldn't buy a helmet from overseas as the manufacturers supply helmets to fit different head shapes depending on the particular market, they say a NZ sold Shoei GT Air (for example) will have a different fit to a US sold Shoei GT Air.
At first this sounded feasible as I can imagine Asians may have a slightly different head shape than African Americans (for example).
But as I have put more thought into it I am calling bullshit for these reasons
a) there are different headshapes among an otherwise seemingly homogonous population anyway eg my wife and I are both Kiwis of european heritage but have different shaped heads.
b) Most countries have a mixture of ethnicities (and therefore headshapes).
c) If I shifted to the US (for example) I would need to order a helmet from New Zealand?, do shops here turn away "foriegners" when they want to buy a helmet? - "sorry mate you'll have to order it from your home country NZ helmets wont fit"
d) It doesn't fit with the "I have an Arai (shoei,hjc, whatever) head" meme. Do I only have an Arai(NZ) head?

So is it a load of crap or am i having a major logic fail here?

***yes I know you shouldn't buy a helmet without trying it on first, thats not what I am getting at here.

[Gremlin]

There are different shapes for different regions. What you get in store will actually vary depending on where it was sourced from.

From memory, the variation is US, European and Asian markets - obviously brands will vary in amongst in that.

[Mike.Gayner]

I tried to get to the bottom of this when I was buying my Shoei but never could get a straight answer. As best I can tell it's just another lie told by local dealers to try and prevent you from getting a better deal online.

In the end when buying my NXR I would only have saved around $100 buying online (after horrific shipping charges) so decided to stick with the dealer, even though they were unable to get my preferred graphics/size combo.

[Bassmatt]

There are different shapes for different regions. What you get in store will actually vary depending on where it was sourced from.

From memory, the variation is US, European and Asian markets - obviously brands will vary in amongst in that.

You say that as if you know it for a fact.
please explain this with regard to my points b, and c.

[Bassmatt]

I tried to get to the bottom of this when I was buying my Shoei but never could get a straight answer. As best I can tell it's just another lie told by local dealers to try and prevent you from getting a better deal online.


Yeah thats my feeling too. Asians in the US need to import helmets from Japan? yeah right.

[Gremlin]

You say that as if you know it for a fact.
please explain this with regard to my points b, and c.
It's simple, coz you're over-thinking it.

You try a helmet on, it's not comfortable. You try another helmet on, it's comfortable. You buy it.

Even NZ shops will have different sources of supply (well, import). I've had two N104s from Europe, and I'm sure the supply varied between purchases, as the first was more comfortable than the 2nd, but the 2nd is finally wearing in...

[nzspokes]

I tried to get to the bottom of this when I was buying my Shoei but never could get a straight answer. As best I can tell it's just another lie told by local dealers to try and prevent you from getting a better deal online.

In the end when buying my NXR I would only have saved around $100 buying online (after horrific shipping charges) so decided to stick with the dealer, even though they were unable to get my preferred graphics/size combo.

It is true. I have been involved in the design of helmets for another use in the past. Different markets will run a different head shape to suit the local demographic.

[Tazz]

I've bought two from overseas, no problemo, but I believe there will be some truth to it for some brands as I know clothing sizes (SML, MED, LRG) are different for different markets too, let alone difference between brands.
Best bet is to just ask who your buying off direct for the measurements vs sizing chart to be sure.

For both of mine I went off my own measurements and the sellers rather than trying in a store as morally I'd feel like a bit of a cunt doing that.

[Tazz]

It is true. I have been involved in the design of helmets for another use in the past. Different markets will run a different head shape to suit the local demographic.

Wasn't there someone on here that tried to buy the same helmet they had at home somewhere random like Kathmandu, and found all the sizes were up the piss by comparison? Was a Shoei or Arai too.

[Bassmatt]

It is true. I have been involved in the design of helmets for another use in the past. Different markets will run a different head shape to suit the local demographic.

So whats the difference between a European head in France and an ethnically European head in the US?

[Bassmatt]

Wasn't there someone on here that tried to buy the same helmet they had at home somewhere random like Kathmandu, and found all the sizes were up the piss by comparison? Was a Shoei or Arai too.

Size is not shape.

[nzspokes]

Wasn't there someone on here that tried to buy the same helmet they had at home somewhere random like Kathmandu, and found all the sizes were up the piss by comparison? Was a Shoei or Arai too.

Don't remember that but I always wanted a bell helmet. Tried one at Motomail and it hurt like hell. That was a few years back. Went there a few months ago and they said they now get the American head shape not the euro. Fitted me well.

[nzspokes]

So whats the difference between a European head in France and an ethnically European head in the US?

Euro head from memory(was 20 years ago) is narrow oval and US Std is wide oval.

[nzspokes]

Oh and Asian again from memory is round.

[Tazz]

So whats the difference between a European head in France and an ethnically European head in the US?

Can you tell me the difference in density and weight of a subway 9 grain wheat foot long and an Italian herbs and cheese?

Man, head shapes can be different between siblings let alone ethnicity.

[SPP]

depends on manufacturer. Sometimes its a big difference sometimes not really.
I always think of US helmets being slightly more narrow... and heavier but that has more to do with snell vs. ece

Arai RX7, Shoei X-11, HJC RPS-10 were slightly more narrow than EU model.

Shark i think offer same helmets in US and EU. So depends.

from Arai website
"Besides the different shell sizes, another characteristic of Arai is the use of different shell shapes for different models. There is for instance the G-shell for a more rounded human head and the L-shell for longer narrower faces. Arai has even developed different shaped inner and different sizes outer shells for different continents! One for Europe, one for Asia and one for North and South America since there are significant differences in head shapes among these regions."

[Bassmatt]

Man, head shapes can be different between siblings let alone ethnicity.

Exactly. so every market probably has every head shape, so why differentiate between markets?

[Bassmatt]

from Arai website
One for Europe, one for Asia and one for North and South America since there are significant differences in head shapes among these regions."

Can anybody suggest why there would be a significant difference between head shapes in Europe and North America when North America is predominantly populated by immigrants from Europe?

[Tazz]

Exactly. so every market probably has every head shape, so why differentiate between markets?

Averages.
You seen the size of the dudes on the Chinese basketball team? They exist, but would you make a set range of clothes or helmets for a nation of approx 1,300,000,000 people based on their dimensions? Same for heads. There will be a mix, but some will be will be more dominate than others and then basic economics will kick in based on those...

I'm not saying it's a fact or anything at all, like I said I got two helmets from overseas sweet as, but there is not a complete lack of logic behind the idea and it is factual that clothes sizes (and even shapes) are different for different markets so helmets being the same is nothing out of this world crazy or worth writing home about.

[nzspokes]

Can anybody suggest why there would be a signicant difference between head shapes in Europe and North America when North America is predominantly populated by immigrants from Europe?
Wow. You just don't get it do you.

[Bassmatt]

Averages.
You seen the size of the dudes on the Chinese basketball team? They exist, but would you make a set range of clothes or helmets for a nation of approx 1,300,000,000 people based on their dimensions?


Not for their SIZE, no. They are the same basic shape as the other Chinese tho (allowing for fatties of course).
Do hat makers use different shapes depending on the market?

[Bassmatt]

Wow. You just don't get it do you.

No, clearly I don't. Please explain.

[Tazz]

Not for their SIZE, no. They are the same basic shape as the other Chinese tho (allowing for fatties of course).
Do hat makers use different shapes depending on the market?

Nah there are different shapes. I only know a little because one of my ex's was a pattern maker or some jazz and worked for one firm where the owners new wife started doing the designing and sizing, and she was an ex professional rower, and it fucked up their sizing for their usual customer base but they picked up sales from another.

If you made em to the proportion of those dudes it would fit fark all people regardless of the sizes, but for a country that has a lot more tall/athletic build like the Dutch they might be spot on.

No clue on hats. Mildly interested in shit like this though so had a quick google (you know how you use the google aye? :bleh:) and found this on hats from the first link...


Headsize circumference given in the table chart are not correct for all American-made hats, because there is not yet a complete standardization in all the factories. They are, however, correct measurements according to the standard in effect in factories making at least three-quarters of American hats. But no matter how well the manufacturer adheres to standardization of sizes, considerable effort is lost if the hat does not look well on the consumer. It must be a fundamental consideration that the form and size of skulls are extremely important right from the very beginning of hat-making. It is here that a hat begins life, and designers should bear in mind always that the skulls of various races and people differ widely in form and size.

So to answer that, yes, there are different hats for different countries/races, and I have one more useless piece of information filed away in my head :laugh:

http://www.hatlife.com/headsize.php

[Tazz]

Can anybody suggest why there would be a significant difference between head shapes in Europe and North America when North America is predominantly populated by immigrants from Europe?

Missed this. Going by your logic we should all be black because humans apparently originated from Africa. Why aren't we all black Africans man?

[Bassmatt]

Missed this. Going by your logic we should all be black because humans apparently originated from Africa. Why aren't we all black Africans man?

Really? Thats the best you've got? Your suggesting that over a period of 523 years, absolute maximum, that European immigrants to North America have diverged genetically from the Europeans that didn't? So much that they now have a different shaped head!?
What could possibly have caused that?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol

[Tazz]

Really? Thats the best you've got? Your suggesting that over a period of 523 years, absolute maximum, that European immigrants to North America have diverged genetically from the Europeans that didn't? So much that they now have a different shaped head!?
What could possibly have caused that?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol

Are you drunk? All I've got? I'm not arguing with you, you just clearly don't understand much about what you're asking about, hence all the questions you seem to have?

Again, first fucking link from google.

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/120508_crania.htm

I'm to lazy to even read it now because you're clearly to lazy to open your mind and research something you knowing nothing about yourself, instead you will stick to what you think you know (which clearly is fuck all) and get all smart arse about it all for some reason?

On the Europeans bowling over to The Americas, man, bunch of different European people, rocking in mixing with others that haven't done so before on that scale, doesn't mean their all going to be the same shape, it more likely means there would be entirely NEW shapes and trends.
Things can change dramatically within 2-3 generations, let alone 'only' 523 years (did you look that up? Good shit. Gold star.).
Doesn't have to be a wildly different shape that won't fit anything necessarily, but you asked...

From all that there will still be a statistically/genetically dominant shape, which a marketing department will cater to if the demand is great enough.

[haydes55]

I feel sorry for immigrants. Never able to find a helmet that fits their head.....

[pritch]

I can't comment about other factories, I know though that Arai definitely do offer different headshapes. IIRC they don't offer different headshapes within a helmet style, the different models come in different head shapes. This is all explained in detail on the Arai website. My USA bought Arai fitted because I could buy it knowing that it had the same head shape as the Arai I already owned.

From the web site:

Q: I see that Arai now has three different shell shapes. Why?
A: It could be argued that helmet fit can be kind of a benign process. A helmet manufacturer does some R&D to develop a shell shape and an interior fit shape they think will appeal to a lot of riders; then they make the helmet and put it on the market. The potential customer then tries on the helmet, and it either fits the customer’s head, or it doesn’t. Arai Helmets, on the other hand, takes a different approach. Instead of one-shape-for-all, Arai offers you three different interior fit shapes to choose from. Arai believes helmet fit is critical to both the performance and the enjoyment of a helmet.. Arai believes the rider benefits of a better, more comfortable fit result in a helmet you can wear longer – longer rides, longer years – without fatigue or “pressure points”. A better fit can also help reduce wind noise because it seals better, conforming more your head shape. It allows for a better chance of buying a helmet that’s the right size for your head – instead of one that’s too large – because in the search for comfort we might be tempted to buy a size that’s too large in order to get a “one-shape-for-all” helmet to feel comfortable. And a too-large helmet is one of the major contributors to wind noise, buffeting, and in the extreme, a helmet that moves around on your head.Next, the science of helmet fit isn’t an exact science. If it were, somebody would probably have created the “perfect” shape years ago and been done with it. But there are a countless number of head shapes that not only vary from person to person, but from culture to culture. To Arai’s designers and engineers, that means you work as hard as you can to come as close as you can to “the best fit for the most riders”. It also takes a particular type of company to encourage its people devote so much time and effort to the search.

Q: What’s the difference between the helmet shapes?
A: It comes down to a basic fact: the shape of the head – the relationship between length and width – are as important as head size in determining the right helmet for you a helmet:

The traditional Arai fit – the “Long Oval” – For heads whose length is distinctly narrow side-to-side, combined with a longer front to back measurement

The transitional fit – the “Round Oval” – For heads that are distinctly rounder, the length and width being almost even.

The bridge fit – the “Intermediate Oval” – For heads with a round shape, but with considerably more forehead length. This shape “bridges” the gap between the two previous shapes.

[nzspokes]

No, clearly I don't. Please explain.

People have different head shapes in different parts of the world. How hard does it have to be?:brick:

[pritch]

My understanding, from the reading I did when I was looking into buying an Arai, was that Asian heads tend to be a longer narrower shape than European heads. Which may explain why that was the "traditional" Arai headshape. Arai being a Japanese company.

In case you are wondering what effect all of this has? The Arai helmets are the most comfortable I've worn. Of course if you fucked up and bought the wrong head shape the helmet could be completely unwearable.

[Tazz]

i am having a major logic fail here.


I can't comment about other factories, I know though that Arai definitely do offer different headshapes. IIRC they don't offer different headshapes within a helmet style, the different models come in different head shapes. This is all explained in detail on the Arai website. My USA bought Arai fitted because I could buy it knowing that it had the same head shape as the Arai I already owned.

From the web site:

Q: I see that Arai now has three different shell shapes. Why?
A: It could be argued that helmet fit can be kind of a benign process. A helmet manufacturer does some R&D to develop a shell shape and an interior fit shape they think will appeal to a lot of riders; then they make the helmet and put it on the market. The potential customer then tries on the helmet, and it either fits the customer’s head, or it doesn’t. Arai Helmets, on the other hand, takes a different approach. Instead of one-shape-for-all, Arai offers you three different interior fit shapes to choose from. Arai believes helmet fit is critical to both the performance and the enjoyment of a helmet.. Arai believes the rider benefits of a better, more comfortable fit result in a helmet you can wear longer – longer rides, longer years – without fatigue or “pressure points”. A better fit can also help reduce wind noise because it seals better, conforming more your head shape. It allows for a better chance of buying a helmet that’s the right size for your head – instead of one that’s too large – because in the search for comfort we might be tempted to buy a size that’s too large in order to get a “one-shape-for-all” helmet to feel comfortable. And a too-large helmet is one of the major contributors to wind noise, buffeting, and in the extreme, a helmet that moves around on your head.Next, the science of helmet fit isn’t an exact science. If it were, somebody would probably have created the “perfect” shape years ago and been done with it. But there are a countless number of head shapes that not only vary from person to person, but from culture to culture. To Arai’s designers and engineers, that means you work as hard as you can to come as close as you can to “the best fit for the most riders”. It also takes a particular type of company to encourage its people devote so much time and effort to the search.

Q: What’s the difference between the helmet shapes?
A: It comes down to a basic fact: the shape of the head – the relationship between length and width – are as important as head size in determining the right helmet for you a helmet:

The traditional Arai fit – the “Long Oval” – For heads whose length is distinctly narrow side-to-side, combined with a longer front to back measurement

The transitional fit – the “Round Oval” – For heads that are distinctly rounder, the length and width being almost even.

The bridge fit – the “Intermediate Oval” – For heads with a round shape, but with considerably more forehead length. This shape “bridges” the gap between the two previous shapes.

Well there we have it, 5 mins of looking on your own and you would have found the answer :laugh:

Interesting they have 3 shapes, for some reason I though it would just be two.

[AllanB]

My last couple of HJC's have been purchased ex USA. Fix my head perfect as do the equivalent NZ HJC.


Possibly the more interesting question is: are vaginas globally different between races? Does one size really fit all?

[Tazz]

My last couple of HJC's have been purchased ex USA. Fix my head perfect as do the equivalent NZ HJC.


Possibly the more interesting question is: are vaginas globally different between races? Does one size really fit all?

And do they queef or flap different notes in the wind. If so, are they tuneable?

[HenryDorsetCase]

So whats the difference between a European head in France and an ethnically European head in the US?

Not the point. the point is that manufacturers supply a different shell or padding shape to a market depending on the demographic factors of that market.

If you are in that market then you buy the helmet that fits you same as here. You might be an Asian person with a round head instead of the more usual "long oval" so a lot of helmets dont fit you there but you keep trying till they do.

I struck it personally with Arai and the fuckwits that import them to NZ. Get this, they are different as between Straya and UnZud..... model range and name, graphics etc.

That, and the issues with damage in transit and hassle in returning (plus the GST/customs thing) would make me think twice about doing it again.

I also bought another brand of helmet not available here out of the US, and lucked out that it fit me pretty well. But it is cool enought that I was prepared to use it as an ornament if not.

[nodrog]

Arai has different sized shells in each model range, not to suit different head shapes but to use in the different sizes. ie their small shell will do xxs to s, and the large shell will do L to Xxl.

they do different shaped shells for head shape, but they are model specific. ie an rx7 will be a different shape to a quantum.

Its not feasible or economic to make a shell shape for every ethnicity, with 3 different shell sizes, on every model.

It would be ok though if immigration wasnt invented.

[caspernz]

It would be ok though if immigration wasnt invented.

That might be the answer to the housing problem in Auckland. Now let's invent the time machine...:eek5:

[Oscar]

When I was in Spain a few years ago, I needed a helmet, and after a lot of shagging around trying get the right size, I bit the bullet and selected what I thought was the exact same Shoei Hornet that I had bought in NZ. Despite it being the same model and size, the damn thing wouldn't go over my fat head (size 60 / XL).

In fact, there were very few helmets in the larger size available in Spain - 58 was generally the largest.

[SPP]

Can anybody suggest why there would be a significant difference between head shapes in Europe and North America when North America is predominantly populated by immigrants from Europe?

Nope, didn't care much past knowing the helmets were different. The back of a spoon can fix things if they're not too far out.