Your sovereign rights being flushed down the toilet by our politicians

[flyingcrocodile46]

I doubt many of you will know anything about the TPP agreement that is being secretly negotiated. It is done secretly because earlier attempts at the negotiations had to be abandoned because of overwhelming negative public opinion.

Our politicians are not informing us of the concessions they are making until it is a done deal, because they know that public opinion will not be forthcoming. Mainstream media is silent because their owners support the process. Keeping us in the dark and feeding us shit. That is how our democracy works.

In summary, it is a trade agreement that sets aside national/sovereign laws in favour of newly created trading laws that favour corporations. i.e many of the new laws that make up this agreement do away with corporate liability for silly little things like product related death. If you want liability you will need to be very wealthy in order to finance your way through a protracted and essentially fruitless process.

Don't believe me . Do some internet research for the facts.


http://youtu.be/eAoPZdDP7cI

[AllanB]

You are under the illusion that I give a shit.

I'm 50 this week - I gave up decades ago believing any Government gives a crap about what is important to me other than on one day every three years.

Yeah - I agree I have a crap attitude to this and if people with the same attitude actually gave a shit and started making noise maybe things would change. But - I'd rather go for a ride or spend some time with my kids before they hit the age where they are too busy for me (it is inching closer :-( ).

So there - pay my ever increasing taxes so I can do less with my life in a ever increasingly restrictive world.

I may pop out this afternoon and do a burn out - now referred to by Government as a loss of traction .........

[puddytat]

You are under the illusion that I give a shit.

But - I'd rather go for a ride or spend some time with my kids before they hit the age where they are too busy for me (it is inching closer :-( ).

.........

Typical baby boomer attitude:weird:.....& it'll be your kids & their kids that'll have to pay for it as well as the cost of climate change.

[jasonu]

10 characters
309011

[FJRider]

You voted to allow politicians to run your country on your behalf ... Even if the one's voted in were not your choice.

Run for PM ... and do it your way.

[oneofsix]

Typical baby boomer attitude:weird:.....& it'll be your kids & their kids that'll have to pay for it as well as the cost of climate change.

If he has just turned 50 he is not a boomer, at best a Jones which makes sense as he will be fucked off because the boomers fucked up everything before he got there and then through the excessive numbers banned it before he could enjoy it.

[oneofsix]

You voted to allow politicians to run your country on your behalf ... Even if the one's voted in were not your choice.

Run for PM ... and do it your way.

that is politicians BS, suggests that your only say is your vote every election. Democracy allows us to have a say whenever we feel like it. Troiuble with Kiwis is we are too mild mannered and worry about the nay sayers (it wont work, it will annoy people, they wont listen), making us easily controlled.
Part of TPP is to attack this right and by allowing the corporates to sue the country should we do something as rash as banning soft-drink dispensers in schools to help fight obesity.

[oldrider]

To portray something is not right in this country is to be branded - because it's easier to brand than it is to think or speak up! :puke::dodge:

[bogan]

In summary, it is a trade agreement that sets aside national/sovereign laws in favour of newly created trading laws that favour corporations. i.e many of the new laws that make up this agreement do away with corporate liability for silly little things like product related death. If you want liability you will need to be very wealthy in order to finance your way through a protracted and essentially fruitless process.

This is a push from US into NZ, I thought we typically had less suing and liability issues than US does? Do you have any specifics on that?

My concerns about it stem from the IP changes, the patent system does need a good kick up the arse, but I'm fairly sure US would be kicking it the wrong way.

[FJRider]

that is politicians BS, suggests that your only say is your vote every election.

It's NOT I know ... You can request a Public Referendum ...


Democracy allows us to have a say whenever we feel like it. Troiuble with Kiwis is we are too mild mannered and worry about the nay sayers (it wont work, it will annoy people, they wont listen), making us easily controlled.

You CAN say what you like (freedom of speech and all that ...) BUT ... having the authority/influence/numbers to actually change anything is another thing entirely.

Ask John Key about his "Public Mandate" to make changes ...


Part of TPP is to attack this right and by allowing the corporates to sue the country should we do something as rash as banning soft-drink dispensers in schools to help fight obesity.

Living in a "Free" country ... we should have the right to sue whomever we choose ... whenever we choose. If WE are prepared to pay the Lawyers ... whatever the outcome of said case ... and the judges final decision.

BUT ... Shouldn't SCHOOLS have the right to ban Soft drink dispensers in schools if they choose. I don't recall having such machines in schools being listed among one of any/many "Human Rights" ... perhaps you have a different list to mine ...

[AllanB]

Typical baby boomer attitude:weird:.....& it'll be your kids & their kids that'll have to pay for it as well as the cost of climate change.


Read again bud - I turn 50 on Wednesday - no baby boomer here.


You should be more worried about the global ageing population that the youth of today are going to have to be taxed to F to pay for. Grey Power will rule the Political environment in a few decades.

[FJRider]

Read again bud - I turn 50 on Wednesday - no baby boomer here.

Still just a kid ... :rolleyes:


You should be more worried about the global ageing population that the youth of today are going to have to be taxed to F to pay for. Grey Power will rule the Political environment in a few decades.

I better join it then ... :devil2:

[Voltaire]

So other than posting up that the TPP is not in Kiwis benefit what's the action plan?

[Laava]

So other than posting up that the TPP is not in Kiwis benefit what's the action plan?

Yep, that's what I was thinking too! Yokel ,Katman and FlyingCrocodile can form a party to address their concerns....or they can whine on endlessly on KB.
Ironically inspite of my tone, I would probably vote for them. They would at least stop our boys being Operation human shield for the yanks. But I also know they will do nothing about it.
Oh yeah, and aksle the gun totin', cop intimidating eight foot tall giant with flaming red hair can be their PM. Or finance minister. Or whip. Probably the whip. ping boy.

[flyingcrocodile46]

So other than posting up that the TPP is not in Kiwis benefit what's the action plan?

I don't know the answers. Hell, I don't even know all the questions.
The point is that it is being done in secret. You damn well know why that is. It means that the public wouldn't agree to the deals being done. The little people will be screwed again (and quite possibly the whole country).
This shit is real.

Part of TPP is to attack this right and by allowing the corporates to sue the country should we do something as rash as banning soft-drink dispensers in schools to help fight obesity.
If the public aren't invited to learn, discuss and debate the issues, then we need to educate ourselves as to what the implications are, form questions and discuss them with as many other people as possible (to fill the void left by our awol media and politicians). If a meaningful consensus is reached or if enough vocal people stand up to be heard, they will either get a hearing, or the negotiations will be cancelled/postponed again.

The only thing I am pushing is awareness

[Katman]

Ironically inspite of my tone, I would probably vote for them. They would at least stop our boys being Operation human shield for the yanks.

You should probably start making a bit of noise about it then.

Or, you could just leave it up to others.

[Voltaire]

+1 on that, you need more training on Rant and Rave and Pointless Drivel to have a really valid opinion :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Murray]

Read again bud - I turn 50 on Wednesday - no baby boomer here.


You should be more worried about the global ageing population that the youth of today are going to have to be taxed to F to pay for. Grey Power will rule the Political environment in a few decades.

Have a have birthday and a great Wednesday

[puddytat]

Read again bud - I turn 50 on Wednesday - no baby boomer here.


You should be more worried about the global ageing population that the youth of today are going to have to be taxed to F to pay for. Grey Power will rule the Political environment in a few decades.

I understood that baby boomers were from 1945-'64......so you either a maybe or a wannabe.
I'm worried about it all Bro. looking like the perfect shitstorm brewing from where I sit. What with one thing .or the other one....take your pick it's all related.

This may help...http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/

[blue rider]

blah blah blah

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11164328


could do, should do, or just have a beer and fart

http://www.nznotforsale.org/

it fuckn means nothing

https://data.awp.is/filtrala/2014/12/17/19.html

pfft
https://wikileaks.org/tppa-environment-chapter.html

health care who needs it

http://162.243.114.61/tags/pacific-rim/article/201502130149f7.new-zealand-leads-lancet-call-tppa

bernie sanders - us polititian who is not a happy chappy

http://video.twicsy.com/i/D2Xem

but nah, nothing to see here, honest john will manage to negotiate a good deal for NZ...hmmmm or himself, or what ever hat he is wearing this day...really trust him, he is that good.....just look at sky city.

[Flip]

We voted in a centre right goverment run by a deratives trader.


Seriously did you expect a goverment that would put your interests before a corporates?


Just shut the fuck up and take it like a conservative voter should.

[SPman]

Centre right?

30 yrs ago they'd be regarded as raving extreme right wing loonies!

[MisterD]

Centre right?

30 yrs ago they'd be regarded as raving extreme right wing loonies!

Yeah not so much. They're well left of Thatcher or Reagan...and by the way, they're left of that lefty icon Obama on most things too.

[oldrider]

There will be a new train at the station next election - John has worn out his welcome - remember NZ voters can only ever vote governments OUT! :rolleyes:

[blue rider]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/66223914/Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Trade-deal-secrecy-par-for-the-course

But the question is open: after years of off-on negotiations, what sort of deal will it be?

We simply don't know. The talks have been carried out in great secrecy, a fact that critics decried this week in select committee hearings at Parliament. And they certainly have a point. It is absurd that those who brought a petition on the matter four years ago have only just had their hearing in the select committee.

This fits the pattern of this Government's attitude, however. It has no time for critics and says: "Trust us: we know what we're doing."

This would be more convincing if it came from a Government with a better record in negotiating deals. But this is the crowd that wants a deal with SkyCity for a "free" convention centre and a plethora of pokie machines.

Last week it appeared the Government was seriously considering breaking the "free" part of the deal, till the casino withdrew its request for taxpayer cash yesterday


hahahaha, trust us, we are from the government and we are here to help you. bwhahahahahaha suckers.

[SPman]

Well...how about this little gem. This guy is a typical conservative kiwi, who every year is having his eyes opened more and more.....
All programmers beware

16 February 2015
There was a time when writing computer code was a pretty low-risk occupation.
Unless you were writing the control systems for the world's nuclear weapons stockpile or critical medical software responsible for the control of life-support systems, you were unlikely to be facing prison-time for simply doing your job.
Sadly, a new precedent set in the USA last week has changed all that and effectively made the job of computer programmer a very high risk one -- if you value your freedom and a clean criminal record.
What am I talking about?

Well imagine if you worked in a car factory, building a popular brand of vehicle and it was discovered that that one of those vehicles (one of the ones *you* personally had a part in assembling) had been used in a hit-and-run accident. How would you feel if the police arrested you, the courts convicted you and you were imprisoned for manslaughter because you built that car?


Sounds impossible?




I would have thought so too... until last week.
It wasn't a car and it wasn't an auto-assembler who set this precedent however. It was Andrus Nõmm, one of the guys who programmed Kim Dotcom's MegaUpload system and he's now facing a year's jail because the software he wrote was used by the company which employed him to allegedly commit a crime.
Let's get it very clear -- Nõmm was working as a programmer, operating under the directives of MegaUpload to create a dropbox site which had many, many legitimate and totally legal uses -- just as the car that you and I drive every day does.
However, the outrageous thing about his case is that he is being held responsible for the crimes committed with the software he wrote -- just as an autoworker might (based on this precedent) be held accountable for the crimes of a hit-and-run driver or an armed robber who uses such a vehicle in the commission of his crimes.

This is totally outrageous and speaks to the manner in which powerful corporate forces are twisting the law in the USA so as to destroy the very concept of justice. Most commentators agree that the US authorities have "cut a deal" with Nõmm who has agreed to a short term in prison in return for copping a guilty plea and offering to testify against Kim Dotcom. The alternative would have almost certainly been to face a raft of far more serious (trumped up?) charges and years in court until he was bankrupted by legal fees -- with no hope of avoiding a much longer jail-term.
What should be worrying for us here in New Zealand is that those same forces are at work and have already convinced our government to commit "unlawful" acts against Kim Dotcom, as well as changing our employment laws to suit their diktats.
If you're a programmer... you're effectively now on notice that if that handy little program or app you've written gets used for nefarious purposes, you may find yourself doing jail time as a result.

Of course as is the case with all high-level corruption of the systems that are meant to protect not persecute us, this precedent will be applied at the whim of those who pull the strings. Don't expect to see any of the programmers responsible for creating Google Earth or Google Maps from facing jail-time when those services are used by criminals to plan heists or even terror attacks. However, if you're some "low hanging fruit" that the MPAA or RIAA decide is ripe for the picking then you might as well kiss your liberty goodbye because these two organisations seem to have bought the US and NZ justice systems lock, stock and barrel.

Part of any employment contract that you sign in future as a programmer must now include indemnity against the mis-use of the code you write whilst in that employ -- lest you also are held accountable for any potential illegal activities committed by others with code that you've simply created to a spec that others have presented you with.

Every day I grow more worried that this world is being over-taken by an ever-smaller group of ever-powerful people who show contempt for justice, fairness and the concept of egalitarianism. I seriously wonder if the ultimate outcome of this will be some rather violent and nasty uprisings within the ranks of the disenfranchised peoples of the Western world when they finally realise what has been taken from them

[jasonu]

There will be a new train at the station next election - John has worn out his welcome - remember NZ voters can only ever vote governments OUT! :rolleyes:

That maybe so but who the hell WILL get in. Labor is fucked, the Greens, the maori party???

[Flip]

That maybe so but who the hell WILL get in. Labor is fucked, the Greens, the maori party???

Labour is not as fucked as the people of NZ are being at the moment.

I am really supprised that the Govt backed down about the event centre. I really expected then to put their mates ahead of schools, police and the social services.

[mstriumph]

You voted to allow politicians to run your country on your behalf ... Even if the one's voted in were not your choice.

Run for PM ... and do it your way.

he's right ... run for office - give us someone honest to vote for?

[mstriumph]

There will be a new train at the station next election - John has worn out his welcome - remember NZ voters can only ever vote governments OUT! :rolleyes:

unfortunately politicians don't get punished by the electorate for bad behaviour against the public good ... because the public have come to expect this behaviour as normal.

that may make politicians opportunists for taking advantage of this ... but it make us NUTS for permitting it?

[Damantis]

Under the same sort of agreements the TPPA will subject our government / future governments to. Apparently legitimate public health initiatives, like plain packaging for tobacco deprives said tobacco companies of profits and the rights of these corporations to market addictive and harmful substances far exceeds the rights of sovereign governments to enact and enforce legislation in their own countries. This is all part of the global, neo-conservative agenda that is rolled out in many countries already. Look at mining in PNG etc. It's easy for some to look at this as just a local issue but it's not happening in a global vacuum. Anyone who says it doesn't matter, needs a spanking.

[MisterD]

I don't blame Phillip Morris in the slightest, they've spent a lot of money over a lot of years, establishing a brand to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers of a completely legal product and the Australian government is arbitrarily denying them the use of their own property.

It's quite right, IMO, that this sort of behaviour be tested against free trade agreements. Wouldn't you like for Fonterra to be able to challenge the ability of (say) the US Government to kneecap them to advantage local producers? Indonesia are already implementing a retaliatory plain-packaging on alcohol because it will harm Australian wine exports.

It's worth pointing out, again, that Phillip Morris would have no avenue to contest a decision by the Australian government to make tobacoo illegal.

[puddytat]

The biggest winners will be the Lawyers......years & years of litigation.

[Damantis]

I don't blame Phillip Morris in the slightest, they've spent a lot of money over a lot of years, establishing a brand to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers of a completely legal product and the Australian government is arbitrarily denying them the use of their own property.

It's quite right, IMO, that this sort of behaviour be tested against free trade agreements. Wouldn't you like for Fonterra to be able to challenge the ability of (say) the US Government to kneecap them to advantage local producers? Indonesia are already implementing a retaliatory plain-packaging on alcohol because it will harm Australian wine exports.

It's worth pointing out, again, that Phillip Morris would have no avenue to contest a decision by the Australian government to make tobacoo illegal.

Unfortunately, it comes down to who has the most money, therefore stacking courts in favor of corporations over the sovereignty of governments. As for what's legal and not legal. That is purely arbitrary. What is allowed today may be illegal tomorrow and vice versa. ... unless you can sue to get the law changed cos it's affecting your ability to upgrade your superyacht ( which is what agreements like the TPPA are about. ) Don't buy into the "free trade" spin. That's just marketing for people who don't read the text.

[yokel]

Yep, that's what I was thinking too! Yokel ,Katman and FlyingCrocodile can form a party to address their concerns....or they can whine on endlessly on KB.
Ironically inspite of my tone, I would probably vote for them. They would at least stop our boys being Operation human shield for the yanks. But I also know they will do nothing about it.
Oh yeah, and aksle the gun totin', cop intimidating eight foot tall giant with flaming red hair can be their PM. Or finance minister. Or whip. Probably the whip. ping boy.

or I could do absolutely nothing like you?
your slack jaw passive attitude is why it's all going to shit.
it's your fault.

[Voltaire]

or I could do absolutely nothing like you?
your slack jaw passive attitude is why it's all going to shit.
it's your fault.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo: We have someone with a plan :niceone:

[yokel]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo: We have someone with a plan :niceone:

yes I do, the plan is guns.

[Voltaire]

yes I do, the plan is guns.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

[FJRider]

There will be a new train at the station next election - John has worn out his welcome - remember NZ voters can only ever vote governments OUT! :rolleyes:

Musical chairs in Parliament .. hardly effective Government .... :whistle:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Musical chairs in Parliament .. hardly effective Government .... :whistle:

Tape a stick of TNT to the chairs and start again.

[video=youtube;/video]

Try Woody Gutheries version


http://youtu.be/XDd64suDz1A?list=PLman4MacyInkiMEC8iO_DmHjFTIClgse z

[Laava]

yes I do, the plan is guns.

Yay! Go Cletus! Ah..hyuck!

[puddytat]

Here's 2 things you can do to stop the TPPA
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/02/16/two-things-you-can-do-to-stop-the-tppa/

3 if you read it.....

[oldrider]

Here's 2 things you can do to stop the TPPA
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/02/16/two-things-you-can-do-to-stop-the-tppa/

3 if you read it.....

They will want to get it in before John Key gets booted out - then he will be sure of getting his Knighthood and a big fat bonus! . :wait:

[awa355]

They will want to get it in before John Key gets booted out - then he will be sure of getting his Knighthood and a big fat bonus! . :wait:

Ambassador to the states?? :shit:

[MisterD]

3 if you read it.....


By Jane Kelsey...*click*

[mashman]

By Jane Kelsey...*click*

The sound of the parachute chord being pulled as the brain sails away to safety ;)

[FJRider]

Tape a stick of TNT to the chairs and start again.




I think Guy Fawkes had the right idea .... just lacked proper planning ... :doh:

[Scuba_Steve]

I think Guy Fawkes had the right idea .... just lacked proper planning ... :doh:

Might be one of the most sensible things you've ever said there FJ

[carbonhed]

The sound of the parachute chord being pulled as the brain sails away to safety ;)

Marxist academic and lawyer who's never done an honest days work in her life. Life is way too short...

[Brian d marge]

yes I do, the plan is guns.
funnily enough I agree
but actually it will just make things worse
the fkrs get antsy when ya burn down their million dollar mansion
non compliance is one way . .just take care of you . .your family and support your community
and dont support . .the system
get skilled in off grid living
the fkrs will still get bent out of shape if ya try and catch rain water or install an alternative sewerage system
need gov approval cos they knows best
in the mean time take photos of the fkrs that toe either by choice or by need . . the neocon . . imf economic doctrine
then if rhey need shooting you have proof of who why where and when

btw . . .ya just waking up to the tppa now.
fking ell its been on the table for years

and yes its a massive wealth transfer to the wealthy and an arse reaming for the common bloke

try singing happy birthday in public and see how far ya get if the copywrite was enforced

[mashman]

Here's 2 things you can do to stop the TPPA
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/02/16/two-things-you-can-do-to-stop-the-tppa/

3 if you read it.....

I'm surprised Monsanto never got a mention.


Marxist academic and lawyer who's never done an honest days work in her life.

So what.

[mashman]

and yes its a massive wealth transfer to the wealthy and an arse reaming for the common bloke

Thing is, if you want QE to work without making nasty things happen to the value of money and markets n shit, then I would suggest that the TPPA is a damned fine vehicle n'est pas?

[Brian d marge]

They will want to get it in before John Key gets booted out - then he will be sure of getting his Knighthood and a big fat bonus! . :wait:
ya better hurry up thats obamas idea

[Brian d marge]

By Jane Kelsey...*click*
smart woman that one . . .shame about the deriguer lesbian haircut and earing
is that the default wimmin look

[Brian d marge]

Marxist academic and lawyer who's never done an honest days work in her life. Life is way too short...
but has done more for nz than you or I have and will ever do

[puddytat]

Marxist academic and lawyer who's never done an honest days work in her life. Life is way too short...

She's famouser than you .....:cry:

[Brian d marge]

Thing is, if you want QE to work without making nasty things happen to the value of money and markets n shit, then I would suggest that the TPPA is a damned fine vehicle n'est pas?
ok having thought about it
wheres the link

qe government buys banks toxic assets releasing cash into the bank which bank should lend out
bank does to safe investment
large companies and homes
large companies buy back their own shares
house prices go up . .
tppa is a series of agreements to allow moneyied corperations to do business without local restrictions or barriers
so unless banks are getting the money to these large entities for them to purchase assets

[mashman]

ok having thought about it
wheres the link

qe government buys banks toxic assets releasing cash into the bank which bank should lend out
bank does to safe investment
large companies and homes
large companies buy back their own shares
house prices go up . .
tppa is a series of agreements to allow moneyied corperations to do business without local restrictions or barriers
so unless banks are getting the money to these large entities for them to purchase assets

Muchos briefly.

I believe the TPPA is to be a "closed system" that will allow for an "infinite" amount of money to be "printed/created". All you need is for any court case between any govt/corporate to have all records sealed citing commercial sensitivity and all financials frozen. The associated debt can be written off when the court makes a determination. Govt bonds are also as infinite as money, so long as the confidence is there to accept those bonds when (if) the court makes a determination. The world will turn, because who would notice the difference so long as the world is turning?

[blue rider]

health care
who needs it


http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/02/13/doctors-worldwide-blast-tpps-chilling-effect-health-climate-protections

[MisterD]

So what.

So she's still stuck fighting the battles that her fellow travellers lost in the 70's.

She's ideologically opposed to capitalism and globalisation, when in fact those are the two forces that have lifted more people out of real and actual poverty than anything else ever has or ever will.

[mashman]

So she's still stuck fighting the battles that her fellow travellers lost in the 70's.

She's ideologically opposed to capitalism and globalisation, when in fact those are the two forces that have lifted more people out of real and actual poverty than anything else ever has or ever will.

I'm glad someone's still fighting the bullshit that's touted as capitalism and globalisation but is nought more than legalised theft backed by force. Innovation is what has dragged us forwards kicking and screaming. The idea's of individuals turned into reality. It has sweet fanny adams to do with capitalism, like.

[bogan]

I'm glad someone's still fighting the bullshit that's touted as capitalism and globalisation but is nought more than legalised theft backed by force. Innovation is what has dragged us forwards kicking and screaming. The idea's of individuals turned into reality. It has sweet fanny adams to do with capitalism, like.

Good thing capitalism and globalisation foster innovation then :woohoo: Unlike communism, obviously; though the jury is still out on imaginism :eek:

[mashman]

Good thing capitalism and globalisation foster innovation then :woohoo: Unlike communism, obviously; though the jury is still out on imaginism :eek:

I agree with globalisation fosters certain innovations..

[mashman]

This sums up capitalism rather well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk

[bogan]

This sums up capitalism rather well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk

I think, since it is a work of fiction, it sums up your ideas of capitalism rather well :banana:

[mashman]

I think, since it is a work of fiction, it sums up your ideas of capitalism rather well :banana:

What, like a corporate person being a fiction. Thanks.

[bogan]

What, like a corporate person being a fiction. Thanks.

No, like the example used was a work of fiction. If it were like you wish it was, perhaps your example might not be based in fiction :scratch:

[mashman]

No, like the example used was a work of fiction. If it were like you wish it was, perhaps your example might not be based in fiction :scratch:

You're right.

[Voltaire]

Good thing capitalism and globalisation foster innovation then :woohoo: Unlike communism, obviously; though the jury is still out on imaginism :eek:

Yeah, I don't see Eastern Europe moaning about the loss of Communism, what good things did Stalin and that other mass murderer Mao do for anyone.

[Scuba_Steve]

Good thing capitalism and globalisation foster innovation then :woohoo: Unlike communism, obviously; though the jury is still out on imaginism :eek:

Yep those patent wars are doing great things for innovation alright :facepalm:

[mashman]

Yeah, I don't see Eastern Europe moaning about the loss of Communism, what good things did Stalin and that other mass murderer Mao do for anyone.

And they're loving capitalism.

[Voltaire]

And they're loving capitalism.

I toured around Eastern Europe, it was like going back to the 1950's, now they have BMW's maccers, KFC...all those good things.:drool:

I visited a blokes place in Karl Marx Stad ( Chemnitz), and he lived in a flat that shared a bathroom with 4 other families, rode an MZ with a sidecar.


Took me to another chaps place and he had a collection of Western motorcycles, apparently a Party member.

the movie " The lives of Others" reminded me of that time.

Good movie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM

[bogan]

Yep those patent wars are doing great things for innovation alright :facepalm:

Those sure do need a tune up. Still, I'll take the patent wars over communism's whimsical beheading, and imaginism's dolists any day :yes:

[Scuba_Steve]

Those sure do need a tune up. Still, I'll take the patent wars over communism's whimsical beheading, and imaginism's dolists any day :yes:

I'm not sure why you separate Communism & Capitalism so much anyways? China's more capitalist than America yet they're called Communist

[bogan]

I'm not sure why you separate Communism & Capitalism so much anyways? China's more capitalist than America yet they're called Communist

Because they are two different ways (and some of the most common) of doing the whole govt/political/financial thing. I'm not sure why you bring up China then, if it is not clearly one or the other.

[mashman]

I toured around Eastern Europe, it was like going back to the 1950's, now they have BMW's maccers, KFC...all those good things.:drool:

I visited a blokes place in Karl Marx Stad ( Chemnitz), and he lived in a flat that shared a bathroom with 4 other families, rode an MZ with a sidecar.


Took me to another chaps place and he had a collection of Western motorcycles, apparently a Party member.

the movie " The lives of Others" reminded me of that time.

Good movie


KFC (hot n spicy should be on the menu 365/24/7) :drool:

Aye, some people get the shitty end of the stick that really don't deserve it.

Subtitles. My nemesis. Shame as it looks like it might be quite interesting.

[puddytat]

Why does it all have to be so black & white?

Never going to get anything changed for the good with that attitude.

[mashman]

Why does it all have to be so black & white?

Never going to get anything changed for the good with that attitude.

You've just been to see 50 shades of grey aintcha... or you've been staring at a yin and yang picture for longer than you thought... or you can change to the light universe for a better contrast. What all?

[Brian d marge]

I think Guy Fawkes had the right idea .... just lacked proper planning ... :doh:

They have just done an damage report ..a what if it had gone bang

36 odd wine barrels of gunpowder ...would have levelled a fair bit ......

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Yeah, I don't see Eastern Europe moaning about the loss of Communism, what good things did Stalin and that other mass murderer Mao do for anyone.

Communism , remember just means sharing

what you are refering to is a wall street funding puppet dictator( s) using the name communism

As far as I know , Russia has never been communist ....the USSR on the other hand ....

btw ,,off top of head so dont quote ,,,Lenin was from an ordinary middle class background ...where did he get the money ..20 million odd? to fund his shenanigans ......Saved it up he reckoned

tui

Stephen

[Voltaire]

Communism , remember just means sharing

what you are refering to is a wall street funding puppet dictator( s) using the name communism

As far as I know , Russia has never been communist ....the USSR on the other hand ....

btw ,,off top of head so dont quote ,,,Lenin was from an ordinary middle class background ...where did he get the money ..20 million odd? to fund his shenanigans ......Saved it up he reckoned

tui

Stephen

Also from memory , wasn't lenin funded by the Germans to get Russia out of WW1.

There was a good Doco on Guy Fawkes recently on the BBC, other than having a poorly thought out plan, their kegs of powder were 'off'.

[mashman]

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." - John Maynard Keynes.

[Banditbandit]

Communism , remember just means sharing

what you are refering to is a wall street funding puppet dictator( s) using the name communism

As far as I know , Russia has never been communist ....the USSR on the other hand ....

btw ,,off top of head so dont quote ,,,Lenin was from an ordinary middle class background ...where did he get the money ..20 million odd? to fund his shenanigans ......Saved it up he reckoned

tui

Stephen

Lenin had a tame stockbroker .. he funded his party by trading in the Capitalist stock markets ...

[GCSB Thought Police]

yes I do, the plan is guns.

Michael, we would advise very strongly against such actions.

[Brian d marge]

Michael, we would advise very strongly against such actions.

I remember a fella once who said similar things;
Said dont fly to high or the wax will melt ......he was probably right


Stephen

[FJRider]

They have just done an damage report ..a what if it had gone bang

36 odd wine barrels of gunpowder ...would have levelled a fair bit ......

Stephen

Would that have put the Government (at the time) ... on the level then .. ???

[oldrider]

Lenin had a tame stockbroker .. he funded his party by trading in the Capitalist stock markets ...

No he didn't - only a blind - they were funded by international Zionism - couldn't fail they had unlimited financial backing! :sick:

[Voltaire]

No he didn't - only a blind - they were funded by international Zionism - couldn't fail they had unlimited financial backing! :sick:

interesting....that sort of backfired.

Seems meddling in other countries affairs has not panned out a few times.

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

[Brian d marge]

at one time there were more catapillar tractors in russia than in america

[Oscar]

No he didn't - only a blind - they were funded by international Zionism - couldn't fail they had unlimited financial backing! :sick:

In a forum full of drivelling idjuts, you never fail to stand out as the chief source of shite.
Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity.

[Voltaire]

In a forum full of drivelling idjuts, you never fail to stand out as the chief source of shite.
Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity.

This vid has a bloke with a British accent so he sounds convincing and an interviewer with bad 80's hair.
Dunno about the " Zionist" bit but Trotsky and Lenin appear to have been finance by America and the UK, the revolution was not televised.:msn-wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFklTLNy8c

[Oscar]

This vid has a bloke with a British accent so he sounds convincing and an interviewer with bad 80's hair.
Dunno about the " Zionist" bit but Trotsky and Lenin appear to have been finance by America and the UK, the revolution was not televised.:msn-wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFklTLNy8c

Hell, if'n it's on youtube it MUST be true.

[Voltaire]

Hell, if'n it's on youtube it MUST be true.

I added conspiracy in to the search this time :laugh:

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/wall_street_bolshevik.htm

This linking to long winded theories is easy...

[Oscar]

I added conspiracy in to the search this time :laugh:

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/wall_street_bolshevik.htm

This linking to long winded theories is easy...

And when questioned about it, aggressively tell them to look it for themselves on google…

[Brian d marge]

In a forum full of drivelling idjuts, I stand out as the chief source of shite.
Why don't I post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity. sometime

fixed it for ya

Stephen

[Oscar]

fixed it for ya

Stephen

Wow, that's really clever.
Now explain why I should spend one minute looking to validate his drivel (or yours for that matter)?

Do you actually believe that the Russian Revolution was a Zionist plot?
If so, you're a bigger fuckwit than I took you for.

[Brian d marge]

Wow, that's really clever.
Now explain why I should spend one minute looking to validate his drivel (or yours for that matter)?

Do you actually believe that the Russian Revolution was a Zionist plot?
If so, you're a bigger fuckwit than I took you for.
you opened ya gob and put both of you feet in it as usual

so if ya wnat to play . . either put up or shut up

ball in your court

[Oscar]

you opened ya gob and put both of you feet in it as usual

so if ya wnat to play . . either put up or shut up

ball in your court

The fact that Jewish people were Bolsheviks and/or Communists does not a Zionist plot make.
It would be novel to see you "put up" in any other fashion than:


Telling someone to google it themselves.
Or: Posting some idiot youtube clip.


Go fer your life.

[Brian d marge]

The fact that Jewish people were Bolsheviks and/or Communists does not a Zionist plot make.
It would be novel to see you "put up" in any other fashion than:


Telling someone to google it themselves.
Or: Posting some idiot youtube clip.


Go fer your life.
put up or shut up

simple concept

[Oscar]

put up or shut up

simple concept

Here's a simple concept for ya - how can I prove / disprove something which is nonsense from his fetid little imagination?
Or to put it another way - he vomited up the propaganda, let him back it up.
However if you believe, you prove it.

[Brian d marge]

Here's a simple concept for ya - how can I prove / disprove something which is nonsense from his fetid little imagination?
Or to put it another way - he vomited up the propaganda, let him back it up.
However if you believe, you prove it.
oscar
no one will play with you until you share the toys

no put up . . . .one must shut up

twas you that called bullshyte so it falls upon you to prove why

[Oscar]

oscar
no one will play with you until you share the toys

no put up . . . .one must shut up

twas you that called bullshyte so it falls upon you to prove why

So if I said you were a kiddy fiddler, it would be up to you to prove me wrong?

Notwithstanding that - how are you going to make me shut up?
Taunt me some more with your bad spelling and childish grammar?
You don't make the rules, tough guy...:facepalm:

[Katman]

So if I said you were a kiddy fiddler, it would be up to you to prove me wrong?


Wrong way round Oscar.

If you said he was a kiddy fiddler it would be up to you to prove it.

The same as when you call 'bullshit' - you should have something to back that claim up.

[Oscar]

Wrong way round Oscar.

If you said he was a kiddy fiddler it would be up to you to prove it.

The same as when you call 'bullshit' - you should have something to back that claim up.


The silly old fool claimed that the Russian Revolution was a Zionist Conspiracy (specifically, that the Zionists funded Lenin).

He said it, it's up to him to prove it.

Or to put it another way, all I have to do is call him a kiddy fiddler, wait for him to call "bullshit" and then (by your rules) it's up to him to prove he isn't.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

[Voltaire]

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Lenin_Money_Agent.jpg

Hard evidence of US financing Lenin :laugh:

[Katman]

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

<img src="http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/thumbnails/irony[1].jpg"/>

[Oscar]

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Lenin_Money_Agent.jpg

Hard evidence of US financing Lenin :laugh:

Seems convincing to me....

[Brian d marge]

The silly old fool claimed that the Russian Revolution was a Zionist Conspiracy (specifically, that the Zionists funded Lenin).

He said it, it's up to him to prove it.

Or to put it another way, all I have to do is call him a kiddy fiddler, wait for him to call "bullshit" and then (by your rules) it's up to him to prove he isn't.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?
nor is it yours

I said . . .some others added to that

you cried bull

so put up or shut up

and the bad grammar and spelling
dont mistake poor typing for poor critical thinkin skills. Thats a cognative bias . Look it up.

oh have look here .
http://www.imranhosein.org/books/530-malaysia-introduction-to-islamic-eschatology.html

game set and match

[bogan]

I said . . .



and the bad grammar and spelling
dont mistake poor typing for poor critical thinkin skills.

This is where the problem is, your critical thinking may not be shit, but the rest of us are not mind readers; and since your grammar is shit it often becomes unclear what you mean. Perhaps instead of insulting the poster because they misinterpreted the grammatically shit post you wrote, you simply correct them.

[FJRider]

... game set and match

Let the umpires decide who the winner(s) is/are ... facts are always debatable (on KB) ... :laugh:

[Oscar]

nor is it yours

I said . . .some others added to that

you cried bull

so put up or shut up

and the bad grammar and spelling
dont mistake poor typing for poor critical thinkin skills. Thats a cognative bias . Look it up.

oh have look here .
http://www.imranhosein.org/books/530-malaysia-introduction-to-islamic-eschatology.html

game set and match

Oh that looks convincing...:facepalm:

[Brian d marge]

This is where the problem is, your critical thinking may not be shit, but the rest of us are not mind readers; and since your grammar is shit it often becomes unclear what you mean. Perhaps instead of insulting the poster because they misinterpreted the grammatically shit post you wrote, you simply correct them.


Did call someone an Idjut or a fkwit? ...which when I last check was indeed an insult no I just said ......dont mistake poor typing for poor critical thinkin skills. Thats a cognative bias . Look it up.

Which it is ...

and the sentences I construct , and not that hard to grasp ( because others can and do )

even with bad grammar ( not that it should even be an issue on a multi cultural web site ...dont even go down THAT path )

Nice try

If I am unsure of what has been said I often , ask for clarification, , Mashman , a few posts back ...try it it works

soooooooo

Lets get back to the point

which is Oscar to post some form evidence to back up his claim of bullshyte ........

Until that happens

game set and match

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Oh that looks convincing...:facepalm:

Doesnt matter, its still vastly more than you have offered ...

off ya go ,

Stephen

[bogan]

Did call someone an Idjut or a fkwit? ...which when I last check was indeed an insult no I just said ......dont mistake poor typing for poor critical thinkin skills. Thats a cognative bias . Look it up.


See here, you're missing the subject in the first sentence, we must assume you meant did I

The next part, could be taken as when you last checked if it was an insult you said no; but I would assume you meant it is, but you did not say that. Which while it may be literally true (shame on you for hiding behind such word semantics when you have atrocious grammar on the whole if this is the case) you still insulted Oscar by changing his wording in your quote of him.


Lets get back to the point

which is Oscar to post some form evidence to back up his claim of bullshyte ........

Until that happens

game set and match

Stephen

Actually, the ball is in oldrider's court to back his claim. Why you insulted Oscar's post asking him to do so, albeit in an insulting tone as well, I'm not too sure.

Those who truly win the game, do not need to proclaim it, for they simply show what is ;)

[Oscar]

Doesnt matter, its still vastly more than you have offered ...

off ya go ,

Stephen

I haven't offered anything, I merely asked the old cunt to back up his claim.
What you and your fuckwit mates can't do is prove a lie, so you ask anyone challenging your shite to disprove it.
Total wankery...

[Brian d marge]

See here, you're missing the subject in the first sentence, we must assume you meant did I

The next part, could be taken as when you last checked if it was an insult you said no; but I would assume you meant it is, but you did not say that. Which while it may be literally true (shame on you for hiding behind such word semantics when you have atrocious grammar on the whole if this is the case) you still insulted Oscar by changing his wording in your quote of him.



Actually, the ball is in oldrider's court to back his claim. Why you insulted Oscar's post asking him to do so, albeit in an insulting tone as well, I'm not too sure.

Those who truly win the game, do not need to proclaim it, for they simply show what is ;)

Gosh did I do all that ..Damn I must be good at this computer thingy

The only thing I can make of that wall of words is that I changed , poor old oscars quote ,
AFTER
Dear Oscar replied to Oldrider post with this lovely bit of prose

* In a forum full of drivelling idjuts, you never fail to stand out as the chief source of shite.
Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity. *

and it was my post to which older rider was replying to .........

to which I , later on added a link to a well respected cleric whom, we can assume has looked into the subject a tad more than you and I .....

Are you ....following?

Sooooooooo

thanks for the detour , to look at ya grand-mamas garden , Im off to see if anything has improved with oscars , internet skills ......cant be that hard for him to find SOME thing

Stephen

[bogan]

Gosh did I do all that ..Damn I must be good at this computer thingy

The only thing I can make of that wall of words is that I changed , poor old oscars quote ,
AFTER
Dear Oscar replied to Oldrider post with this lovely bit of prose

* In a forum full of drivelling idjuts, you never fail to stand out as the chief source of shite.
Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity. *

and it was my post to which older rider was replying to .........

to which I , later on added a link to a well respected cleric whom, we can assume has looked into the subject a tad more than you and I .....

Are you ....following?

Sooooooooo

thanks for the detour , to look at ya grand-mamas garden , Im off to see if anything has improved with oscars , internet skills ......cant be that hard for him to find SOME thing

Stephen

Following? seems I'm well ahead. So, yes you insulted him, yes you have shit grammar, and no the ball is not in Oscar's court as we are still waiting for oldrider's evidence of a zionist conspiracy (which is what oscar asked for).

You keeping up?

[oldrider]

Some interesting reading to work from: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/zionisms_master_plan.htm

There are many many trails to follow on this subject - authors and material may vary but the general thread gets more and more clearly defined approaching today!

Edit: Another trail FWIW:http://theevilofzionismexposedbyjews.weebly.com/index.html

[puddytat]

Google the Protocols of Zion you fkwts....

Just 'cause its not on T.V 1 or Fox news doesn't mean its drivel anymore than Dear John saying he's working for us...

[Brian d marge]

Following? seems I'm well ahead. So, yes you insulted him, yes you have shit grammar, and no the ball is not in Oscar's court as we are still waiting for oldrider's evidence of a zionist conspiracy (which is what oscar asked for).

You keeping up?
you done gone smoked ya self retarded

* not an Insult , just an exclamation at your reply *


The ball is MOST definitely in Os court

I called him out , as in prove it he hasnt , and never has done ,,,just flaps his gums and insults people .......

I , me , not oldrider , not bananas in pyjamas , , not a small Eskimo with a fetish for a pineapple

Me I called him out ,......

I provided evidence , from a well respected source

now

I dont know where you are heading or of whom you are ahead of ..... might I suggest you re check your map.

soooooooooooo

Im bored

Waiting for the old fool , I might as well find the evidence for meself .... I only have one life time ,...

Now if you ask me WHY the Imran has such opinion or WHY do we think Lenin was funded by wall street ...I may stop watching Korean K POPS on you tube and switch me brain on

but ya wont ,,,,,,, cause you wont like the answer and your whole life will collapse , causing you to

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e4q6eaLn2mY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Im soooooooo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0VH-tJSpkjA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So PLEASE for the sake of humanity , please make your next post somewhat challenging


Stephen

[bogan]

you done gone smoked ya self retarded

* not an Insult , just an exclamation at your reply *


The ball is MOST definitely in Os court

I called him out , as in prove it he hasnt , and never has done ,,,just flaps his gums and insults people .......

I , me , not oldrider , not bananas in pyjamas , , not a small Eskimo with a fetish for a pineapple

Me I called him out ,......

I provided evidence , from a well respected source

now

I dont know where you are heading or of whom you are ahead of ..... might I suggest you re check your map.

soooooooooooo

Im bored

Waiting for the old fool , I might as well find the evidence for meself .... I only have one life time ,...

Now if you ask me WHY the Imran has such opinion or WHY do we think Lenin was funded by wall street ...I may stop watching Korean K POPS on you tube and switch me brain on

but ya wont ,,,,,,, cause you wont like the answer and your whole life will collapse , causing you to

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e4q6eaLn2mY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Im soooooooo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0VH-tJSpkjA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So PLEASE for the sake of humanity , please make your next post somewhat challenging


Stephen

No, that's an insult.

Prove what? What was you evidence for? Do you agree it was a zionist conspiracy like oldrider does?

[Brian d marge]

Google the ProtocProtocols of Zionols of Zion you fkwts....

Just 'cause its not on T.V 1 or Fox news doesn't mean its drivel anymore than Dear John saying he's working for us...

no 14 ..entertaining distractions ........

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9ybv4DOj-N0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Some of us , have been there and done that

much prefer this version

:innocent:

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

No, that's an insult.

Prove what? What was you evidence for? Do you agree it was a zionist conspiracy like oldrider does?
Sorry , yes that was an insult and i should take the boxing gloves off
ATM
everywhere I look seems to confirm a pax Judaic alliance

go back, ..just how did the Ottomans get and control such a LARGE AREA

why was Ayasophya or sancta sophia given away ?

one has A LOT OF QUESTIONS

What you are saying to me, or asking of me is; CAN I use a 118 or 135 drill bit for 316 stainless.

So sorry for the quip , you can , hopefully see why

Stephen

[bogan]

Sorry , yes that was an insult and i should take the boxing gloves off
ATM
everywhere I look seems to confirm a pax Judaic alliance

go back, ..just how did the Ottomans get and control such a LARGE AREA

why was Ayasophya or sancta sophia given away ?

one has A LOT OF QUESTIONS

What you are saying to me, or asking of me is; CAN I use a 118 or 135 drill bit for 316 stainless.

So sorry for the quip , you can , hopefully see why

Stephen

The questions were simple and to the point. Your answers were evasive. Weren't you saying something about putting up before? Nothing in you post answers my questions with any degree of certainty.

I shall re-iterate.

What does Oscar need to prove?

What was your evidence for?

Do you agree it was a zionist conspiracy like oldrider does?

[Brian d marge]

The questions were simple and to the point. Your answers were evasive. Weren't you saying something about putting up before? Nothing in you post answers my questions with any degree of certainty.

I shall re-iterate.

What does Oscar need to prove?

What was your evidence for?

Do you agree it was a zionist conspiracy like oldrider does?

Same technique as me i SEE

1.,Oldrider post ; No he didn't - only a blind - they were funded by international Zionism - couldn't fail they had unlimited financial backing! :sick:
to which Oscar replied;

Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity.

he has done, in an other thread .....but... he has ( oldrider .that is , to which oscar dismissed it as crap ....but then a third source , the imran I posted also confirmed oldriders stance , )

sooooooooooo we are STILL waiting

1.b

evidence for what I dont understand the question

1c I answer that i a previous post , do you not understand pax Judaic ? , Pax Americana ?


think man, I know you have it in you . your replies on the economy were very good , .....this is the third time you have asked me about a 135 angle into stainless and its the third time I've answered

do some reseach , come bac k then ask , I will be more than happy to show you what I have unearthed ......

Stephen

[mashman]

do some reseach

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa. GOLD!

[bogan]

Same technique as me i SEE

1.,Oldrider post ; No he didn't - only a blind - they were funded by international Zionism - couldn't fail they had unlimited financial backing! :sick:
to which Oscar replied;

Why don't you post one ounce of genuine historical proof behind this mental atrocity.

he has done, in an other thread .....but... he has ( oldrider .that is , to which oscar dismissed it as crap ....but then a third source , the imran I posted also confirmed oldriders stance , )

sooooooooooo we are STILL waiting

1.b

evidence for what I dont understand the question

1c I answer that i a previous post , do you not understand pax Judaic ? , Pax Americana ?


think man, I know you have it in you . your replies on the economy were very good , .....this is the third time you have asked me about a 135 angle into stainless and its the third time I've answered

do some reseach , come bac k then ask , I will be more than happy to show you what I have unearthed ......

Stephen

1. Perhaps Oscar doesn't consider what has been posted to be "one ounce of genuine historical proof", I know I don't.

1b. You posted some links over the last few pages along with insults and other garbled text I could not decipher. So I'd like to know what those links/evidence was in support of, so I could judge it's ability to confirm or dispute your conclusions.

1c. You may think you have, but again, your grammar is atrocious and I have not deciphered such from the words you write (there is a strong inference that it is a yes; but I'd rather have clarification). So why not a simple yes/no here to clarify?

Research what? I've only seen a garbled message and some anti-zionist links from you, and hate and anti-judaism from oldrider. There is nothing to research, you simply have yet to 'put up' anything worthy of it.

[Brian d marge]

1. Perhaps Oscar doesn't consider what has been posted to be "one ounce of genuine historical proof", I know I don't.

1b. You posted some links over the last few pages along with insults and other garbled text I could not decipher. So I'd like to know what those links/evidence was in support of, so I could judge it's ability to confirm or dispute your conclusions.

1c. You may think you have, but again, your grammar is atrocious and I have not deciphered such from the words you write (there is a strong inference that it is a yes; but I'd rather have clarification). So why not a simple yes/no here to clarify?

Research what? I've only seen a garbled message and some anti-zionist links from you, and hate and anti-judaism from oldrider. There is nothing to research, you simply have yet to 'put up' anything worth of it.

No , now you are just putting words in my mouth

Others have understood and have txted so
so
its your style of input which is different to mine ... ( you are going to have to spend a bit of time on the hinternet , sorry ...)

Insults , no , I have apologised to you if my text to you have caused any offence , but this is the SECOND time you have raised this , so Im guessing you are fishing for an angle

I think you do not know what you are talking about , I am more than happy to share what I have found , though,

AND THEN

if you disagree , then fine ,

I HAVE answered your point about Zionism , please note my lack of use of the word Jew and of Zion , you just havent understood , ( others have , you havent )

. To restate my opinion; there are too many un answered questions regarding the role of the Judaic , Christian alliance throughout history and more so since and before the Balfour agreement

So

I do tend to agree with The koranic version of the Muslim view , also with the orthodox Christian view regarding the Zionist movement . If you try and link that with a anti Jewish rhetoric , I say .

very clearly

You DO NOT KNOW what you are talking about.

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa. GOLD!

phukin phone , looked ok before I sent it .... research ...

[Brian d marge]

bye Oscar
do come back sometimes to relieve my tension ......

Stephen

[bogan]

No , now you are just putting words in my mouth

Others have understood and have txted so
so
its your style of input which is different to mine ... ( you are going to have to spend a bit of time on the hinternet , sorry ...)

Insults , no , I have apologised to you if my text to you have caused any offence , but this is the SECOND time you have raised this , so Im guessing you are fishing for an angle

I think you do not know what you are talking about , I am more than happy to share what I have found , though,

AND THEN

if you disagree , then fine ,

I HAVE answered your point about Zionism , please note my lack of use of the word Jew and of Zion , you just havent understood , ( others have , you havent )

. To restate my opinion; there are too many un answered questions regarding the role of the Judaic , Christian alliance throughout history and more so since and before the Balfour agreement

So

I do tend to agree with The koranic version of the Muslim view , also with the orthodox Christian view regarding the Zionist movement . If you try and link that with a anti Jewish rhetoric , I say .

very clearly

You DO NOT KNOW what you are talking about.

Stephen

Which is what happens when you have extremely poor grammar, one must make assumptions. That others can assume the thing you meant correctly does not mean you have explained it well; even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You insults were not just at me, will you be apologising to oscar?

You haven't (i can't decipher such without putting words in your mouth), and while that post was much better, you still rely on others to do the talking for you; eg, the koranic version of the... And the orthodox... Why not just state your view, so no ambiguity can come into it.

[Brian d marge]

Which is what happens when you have extremely poor grammar, one must make assumptions. That others can assume the thing you meant correctly does not mean you have explained it well; even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You insults were not just at me, will you be apologising to oscar?

You haven't (i can't decipher such without putting words in your mouth), and while that post was much better, you still rely on others to do the talking for you; eg, the koranic version of the... And the orthodox... Why not just state your view, so no ambiguity can come into it.

Nice try

others understood well enough .........

No , Oscar is a genuine idiot , you are not

your third point , trying to put words in my mouth and I have been clear enough , if you dont understand email me off thread and I will spend as much time as you need to clarify the point

Stephen

[Oscar]

bye Oscar
do come back sometimes to relieve my tension ......

Stephen

Are you going somewhere?
Before you go, tell me again your rules of the forum -how obvious bullshit needs to be debunked to your satisfaction. What a pompous twat you are....

[bogan]

Nice try

others understood well enough .........

No , Oscar is a genuine idiot , you are not

your third point , trying to put words in my mouth and I have been clear enough , if you dont understand email me off thread and I will spend as much time as you need to clarify the point

Stephen

Who?

Oscar is not an idiot, he may be a dick, but calling him an idiot is simply a way for you to avoid thinking too hard about the very valid points he puts forward that contradict your own.

You have not been clear enough, and you rarely ever are.

[Voltaire]

Sorry , yes that was an insult and i should take the boxing gloves off
ATM
everywhere I look seems to confirm a pax Judaic alliance

go back, ..just how did the Ottomans get and control such a LARGE AREA

why was Ayasophya or sancta sophia given away ?


Stephen

Its all explained in this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg

Istanbul is a cool place and the locals drink beer and Raki.

[Brian d marge]

Who?

Oscar is not an idiot, he may be a dick, but calling him an idiot is simply a way for you to avoid thinking too hard about the very valid points he puts forward that contradict your own.

You have not been clear enough, and you rarely ever are.
no it not
now ur are just making things up

i would like debate oscar just that it would be impossible

as he rarely if ever validates his argument

it thats simple

[Brian d marge]

Are you going somewhere?
Before you go, tell me again your rules of the forum -how obvious bullshit needs to be debunked to your satisfaction. What a pompous twat you are....
your back
i was worried

not to good at this internet thing
ya cant come onto a thread
call someone into question
then expect all will be fine

them seem to be your rules doesnt matter if you think its bullshyte

thats called an opinion

if you do offer an opinion in this case you did

then expect someone to ask why

so at this point

its either put up or shut up

and as for being a twat
i havent yet called a whole forum whinners and idjuts

that pomposity to a whole new level

i stand in awe

[Brian d marge]

Its all explained in this song

Istanbul is a cool place and the locals drink beer and Raki.
off top of head isnt it illegal there
to refer to the city as constantinople

[Oscar]

your back
i was worried

not to good at this internet thing
ya cant come onto a thread
call someone into question
then expect all will be fine

them seem to be your rules doesnt matter if you think its bullshyte

thats called an opinion

if you do offer an opinion in this case you did

then expect someone to ask why

so at this point

its either put up or shut up

and as for being a twat
i havent yet called a whole forum whinners and idjuts

that pomposity to a whole new level

i stand in awe

If you were such a clever arbiter of the forum, you would know that, when challenged on his stupidity, the silly old cahnt said it was "only his opinion" and wandered off in a haze of senile dementia...

[bogan]

no it not
now ur are just making things up

i would like debate oscar just that it would be impossible

as he rarely if ever validates his argument

it thats simple

What is that even in reply to? 'no it not' What is the 'it' you are talking about? What are you saying I am making up? Why did you not answer the question of who manages to get your posts 100%?

I would like to debate you (oscar probably would too), but you are incapable of effectively using the English written language, so indeed, it is impossible.

[Oscar]

What is that even in reply to? 'no it not' What is the 'it' you are talking about? What are you saying I am making up? Why did you not answer the question of who manages to get your posts 100%?

I would like to debate you (oscar probably would too), but you are incapable of effectively using the English written language, so indeed, it is impossible.

Although his lack of any command of English grammar doesn't help, the main problem is that never actually debates his own thoughts. He uses youtube and various obscure websites to speak for him...

[Brian d marge]

What is that even in reply to? 'no it not' What is the 'it' you are talking about? What are you saying I am making up? Why did you not answer the question of who manages to get your posts 100%?

I would like to debate you (oscar probably would too), but you are incapable of effectively using the English written language, so indeed, it is impossible.
now ya just being rude

[bogan]

now ya just being rude

No, just bluntly correct; your continued evasion and illiteracy shows it.

[Brian d marge]

Although his lack of any command of English grammar doesn't help, the main problem is that never actually debates his own thoughts. He uses youtube and various obscure websites to speak for him...
its called backing up what i say

does matter whether you think its true or not

u on the other hand do nowt . . .gums just flap

[Oscar]

its called backing up what i say

does matter whether you think its true or not

u on the other hand do nowt . . .gums just flap

You seem to be very concerned if it's true or not.
You seem to very concerned that the fetid ravings of some silly old cunt are true or not.
I don't need to disprove some of the more obvious shyte (for example that the WTC was brought down by Russian atomic weapons) that is posted here, and I'm certainly not attempting to argue something that is obviously risible and unsupported by any real evidence.

[oldrider]

You seem to be very concerned if it's true or not.
You seem to very concerned that the fetid ravings of some silly old cunt are true or not.
I don't need to disprove some of the more obvious shyte (for example that the WTC was brought down by Russian atomic weapons) that is posted here, and I'm certainly not attempting to argue something that is obviously risible and unsupported by any real evidence.

It's like Oscar - it simply doesn't matter! :oi-grr:

[bogan]

does matter whether you think its true or not

Well if it does matter, why not have a better go at influencing his thoughts. You might like to start by apologising for calling him an idiot...

[Brian d marge]

Well if it does matter, why not have a better go at influencing his thoughts. You might like to start by apologising for calling him an idiot...
ill just quote your post . . .

No, just bluntly correct; your continued evasion and illiteracy shows it.

[bogan]

ill just quote your post . . .

To show that I'm right on both counts? Fine by me :woohoo:

[Brian d marge]

To show that I'm right on both counts? Fine by me :woohoo:
if you want to be . . . the people that have had no problem with comprehension might disagree
im not fussed either way

[bogan]

if you want to be . . . the people that have had no problem with comprehension might disagree
im not fussed either way

Oh look, more evasion of the main point but assertions that you are correct regardless.

Look, you've already shown everybody I'm right, there is no need to keep doing so ;)

[flyingcrocodile46]

To show that I'm right on both counts? Fine by me :woohoo:

Yeah! Right.

Nice avatar btw. Was it a choice of mere chance or a display of self conscious irony.


http://youtu.be/Xbp6umQT58A

[bogan]

Yeah! Right.

Nice avatar btw. Was it a choice of mere chance or a display of self conscious irony.

Thanks for your agreement and support.

I literally swung my mouse at the keyboard an it loaded that avatar, I didn't choose it even a little bit.

[Virago]

It's interesting to note that if all the "Prove it" "No, you prove it" posts were removed from these conspiracy threads, there wouldn't be much left.

The key issue is that it is the responsibility of the person who makes a claim to provide the evidential proof, not the responsibility of others to prove them wrong.

I could claim that the sun is going to explode* at 10.46am on 27 July 2104. Can you prove me wrong? No of course you can't. But does that make me right - can I prove it?



* The sun exploding may be part of a Zionist conspiracy...

[flyingcrocodile46]

Thanks for your agreement and support.

I literally swung my mouse at the keyboard an it loaded that avatar, I didn't choose it even a little bit.


Didn't give it a thought huh!

#makes mental note for future reference# 'Admission of making decisions without thinking - Zero credibility in respect to claims as to forming an opinion'

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's interesting to note that if all the "Prove it" "No, you prove it" posts were removed from these conspiracy threads, there wouldn't be much left.

The key issue is that it is the responsibility of the person who makes a claim to provide the evidential proof, not the responsibility of others to prove them wrong.

I could claim that the sun is going to explode* at 10.46am on 27 July 2104. Can you prove me wrong? No of course you can't. But does that make me right - can I prove it?

* The sun exploding may be part of a Zionist conspiracy...

I think it is self evident that your claim is bogus. You might have stood a better chance if the claim was for 27 July 2105.


What did I win?

[Brian d marge]

and if evidence was given then the onus falls on the person who dismisses the evidence given to explain why or keep quiet
if neither happens then the term idiot applies

[Oscar]

and if evidence was given then the onus falls on the person who dismisses the evidence given to explain why or keep quiet
if neither happens then the term idiot applies

Even the idiot that you are trying to defend won't back up his shyte.
Give up now before you make even more of a twat of yourself.

[Brian d marge]

Oh look, more evasion of the main point but assertions that you are correct regardless.

Look, you've already shown everybody I'm right, there is no need to keep doing so ;)
no evasion

ive even offered to spend time offline explaining things to you

not much else i can do really

[Brian d marge]

Even the idiot that you are trying to defend won't back up his shyte.
Give up now before you make even more of a twat of yourself.
he did
and has offline shown me

you just . .as usual . .dismissed it

as you did with the link i posted

which if had bothered actually led to a very interesting speaker . .whether you agreed with him or not

but you were true to form . .even down to the choice of noun used to descibe the person

step ya game up old man

[Oscar]

he did
and has offline shown me

you just . .as usual . .dismissed it

as you did with the link i posted

which if had bothered actually led to a very interesting speaker . .whether you agreed with him or not

but you were true to form . .even down to the choice of noun used to descibe the person

step ya game up old man
So now instead of google it yourself or calls to disprove nonsense, now it's offline conversations.
Sad, really...

[bogan]

no evasion

ive even offered to spend time offline explaining things to you

not much else i can do really

Lots of evasion, you've still yet to explain who actually has no problem understanding your illiterate posts.

That in itself is evasion, why evade explaining things here?

You could make more of an effort to either proof read or learn proper English grammar. But is suspect you're like many of the other stupid worlders, who would far rather blame somebody else instead of finding the path to self improvement.

[bogan]

now it's offline conversations.

Offline conversations that you have dismissed apparently. Not sure how you are expected not to dismiss something you haven't seen though... :scratch:

[bogan]

Didn't give it a thought huh!

#makes mental note for future reference# 'Admission of making decisions without thinking - Zero credibility in respect to claims as to forming an opinion'

Your sarcasm detector broken?

I didn't give your vid a thought, because it was not accompanied by one :bleh:

[Brian d marge]

So now instead of google it yourself or calls to disprove nonsense, now it's offline conversations.
Sad, really...
clutching at straws again . .

it may be sad in your world

but thats . .in our world . ,how friends comunicate

ya called everyone one on kb
an idiot
ya constantly call people fwits etc

and when asked to clarify , . ie put up or shut up we get 32 pages of oscarism

now THAT is sad

[flyingcrocodile46]

Your sarcasm detector broken?

I didn't give your vid a thought, because it was not accompanied by one :bleh:

You should. You might then laugh with me, at the apparently karmic selection of your avatar. :lol:

Having fun yet?

[mashman]

Lots of evasion, you've still yet to explain who actually has no problem understanding your illiterate posts.

I understand him... mind you, I'm willing to bend.

[Brian d marge]

I understand him... mind you, I'm willing to bend.

not without a cash advance

[mashman]

not without a cash advance

Trust me...

[bogan]

You should. You might then laugh with me, at the apparently karmic selection of your avatar. :lol:

Having fun yet?

Is it karmic or ironic? I watched about 3 mins into it, what a fucking dreary way to view the world.

[Brian d marge]

Trust me...
you will be gentle wont you?

[mashman]

you will be gentle wont you?

Don't worry, it'll be about you.

[bogan]

I understand him... mind you, I'm willing to bend.

Understand, or agree with? I've not seen you discuss anything at length with him...

[flyingcrocodile46]

I understand him... mind you, I'm willing to bend.

dunno about 'bending', but I don't have any trouble following what he is saying. Mind you, I have been on American forums for years. If you can follow merican scrawl, you can follow anything. :laugh:

[Brian d marge]

Lots of evasion, you've still yet to explain who actually has no problem understanding your illiterate posts.

That in itself is evasion, why evade explaining things here?

You could make more of an effort to either proof read or learn proper English grammar. But is suspect you're like many of the other stupid worlders, who would far rather blame somebody else instead of finding the path to self improvement.
congnative bias

look it up

how many times do you need to be told

no evasion i have answered all of you questions

if you havent or cannot understand

i have offered spend time explaining

if there is any part of this post you do not understand please highlight it

バイアス

それをルックアップ

あなたが言ったことを何回必要なのですか

私はあなたの質問のすべてに答えていない脱税ない

あなたはか理解できない場合は、

私が説明する過ごす時間を提供してきました

このポストのいずれかの部分がある場合、あなたはそれを強調してください理解していない

[Voltaire]

How do you prove stuff?
The world is run by fuckwits is easy to prove, just watch the news.
As for Zionists, Corporations, Bolshoi,Galactic Republic, less easy.:msn-wink:

Bing says its about tax evasion

Bias


Look it up


What you have said many times is necessary?


I am not tax evasion did not answer all of your questions


You do not understand


Has offered to spend time to explain my


If there are parts of this post, you should highlight it do not understand

[mashman]

Understand, or agree with? I've not seen you discuss anything at length with him...

Understand and most of the time agree with. My lack of bitching at him should be a clue.


dunno about 'bending', but I don't have any trouble following what he is saying. Mind you, I have been on American forums for years. If you can follow merican scrawl, you can follow anything. :laugh:

:laugh:... yet you've been on them for years :shifty: I've never had the pleasure, but have been treated mighty well by some of them fullas overseas... even though they do talk funny, like.

[flyingcrocodile46]

:laugh::laugh: lol'd at 'tax evasion not being the answer'


congnative bias

look it up

how many times do you need to be told

no evasion i have answered all of you questions

if you havent or cannot understand

i have offered spend time explaining

if there is any part of this post you do not understand please highlight it

バイアス

それをルックアップ

あなたが言ったことを何回必要なのですか

私はあなたの質問のすべてに答えていない脱税ない

あなたはか理解できない場合は、

私が説明する過ごす時間を提供してきました

このポストのいずれかの部分がある場合、あなたはそれを強調してください理解していない

[bogan]

congnative bias

look it up

how many times do you need to be told

no evasion i have answered all of you questions

if you havent or cannot understand

i have offered spend time explaining

if there is any part of this post you do not understand please highlight it

バイアス

それをルックアップ

あなたが言ったことを何回必要なのですか

私はあなたの質問のすべてに答えていない脱税ない

あなたはか理解できない場合は、

私が説明する過ごす時間を提供してきました

このポストのいずれかの部分がある場合、あなたはそれを強調してください理解していない

Cognitive bias is indeed the answer, but to the question of who 'understands' you. People who don't disagree with your posts, nor discusses them in detail, seem to 'understand' them. Which is to say, they read what they want to out of it due to their own cognitive bias :yes:

Saying you've answered them, yet not reiterating the answers is evasion too ;)

[flyingcrocodile46]

How do you prove stuff?
The world is run by fuckwits is easy to prove, just watch the news.
As for Zionists, Corporations, Bolshoi,Galactic Republic, less easy.:msn-wink:

Bing says its about tax evasion

Bias


Look it up


What you have said many times is necessary?


I am not tax evasion did not answer all of your questions


You do not understand


Has offered to spend time to explain my


If there are parts of this post, you should highlight it do not understand

Lol. Google tells all. Just a smidgin different

Bias

And look it up

Do I need many times that you said

I am not tax evasion is not the answer to all of your questions

If you can not understand what,

It has been providing the time to spend that I described

If there is any part of this post, you do not understand please emphasize it

[bogan]

Understand and most of the time agree with. My lack of bitching at him should be a clue.

See cognitive bias for why you 'understand and agree' with him. And when you disagree, is it due to a misunderstanding?

[Brian d marge]

How do you prove stuff?
The world is run by fuckwits is easy to prove, just watch the news.
As for Zionists, Corporations, Bolshoi,Galactic Republic, less easy.:msn-wink:

Bing says its about tax evasion

Bias


Look it up


What you have said many times is necessary?


I am not tax evasion did not answer all of your questions


You do not understand


Has offered to spend time to explain my


If there are parts of this post, you should highlight it do not understand

Hahahaha even google understood !

Stephen

[mashman]

I have answered all of your questions and believe that you may be suffering a mild case of cognative bias given that you think otherwise. You might want to look it up just in case you think it important enough to address. It looks like a pretty bad case from where I'm sitting, but my fingers are pissed.

バイアス

それをルックアップ

あなたが言ったことを何回必要なのですか

私はあなたの質問のすべてに答えていない脱税ない

あなたはか理解できない場合は、

私が説明する過ごす時間を提供してきました

このポストのいずれかの部分がある場合、あなたはそれを強調してください理解していない

fixed that for ya.

[flyingcrocodile46]

fixed that for ya.

You must spread.... LMAO Perfect translation

[mashman]

See cognitive bias for why you 'understand and agree' with him. And when you disagree, is it due to a misunderstanding?

Don't see why I should as it has nothing to do with anything. There will be many reasons for why I disagree. One of them may well be misunderstanding on the guess the context interweb.

[flyingcrocodile46]

See cognitive bias for why you 'understand and agree' with him. And when you disagree, is it due to a misunderstanding?

Cognitive bias appears to preclude possibilities other than cognitive bias being behind all comprehension.

You're an Oscar. :blink:

[bogan]

Is it karmic or ironic? I watched about 3 mins into it, what a fucking dreary way to view the world.

Interesting that the temptation of a saying nothing circlejerk seems to outweigh discussion of a posted link; since it was youtube and you guys love that shit, right?


You must spread.... LMAO Perfect translation

This is why you will remain part of the herd, to be farmed. Instead of seeing things in the negative light you think might make you happy, first learn the reality of things, then of how you can change them, or view them in a positive light.

[Brian d marge]

Cognitive bias is indeed the answer, but to the question of who 'understands' you. People who don't disagree with your posts, nor discusses them in detail, seem to 'understand' them. Which is to say, they read what they want to out of it due to their own cognitive bias :yes:

Saying you've answered them, yet not reiterating the answers is evasion too ;)

I also suffer from cognative bias

another cross one must bear

Snip;

Curse of knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge) When better-informed people find it extremely difficult to think about problems from the perspective of lesser-informed people.:killingme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#cite_note-29)

Stephen

do i really have to trawl back and get the questions and copy paste or retype the same answers JUST so you can jet some jollies ...I dont mind but.........

[mashman]

Interesting that the temptation of a saying nothing circlejerk seems to outweigh discussion of a posted link; since it was youtube and you guys love that shit, right?

I thought the videos were posted to offer a shared point of reference with which to start further and shared understanding of the issues. Mind you, I thought that was implied.



This is why you will remain part of the herd, to be farmed. Instead of seeing things in the negative light you think might make you happy, first learn the reality of things, then of how you can change them, or view them in a positive light.

Funny, I don't read what Croc post in a negative light. Projection, cough cough.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Interesting that the temptation of a saying nothing circlejerk seems to outweigh discussion of a posted link; since it was youtube and you guys love that shit, right?


see my previous post. Sorry dude, I don't do idiots. On your way now.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I thought the videos were posted to offer a shared point of reference with which to start further and shared understanding of the issues. Mind you, I thought that was implied.



Funny, I don't read what Croc post in a negative light. Projection, cough cough.

He' one of those what thinks he will be safe from negative light as long as he keeps his eyes squeezed tight. :yes:

[bogan]

Don't see why I should as it has nothing to do with anything. There will be many reasons for why I disagree. One of them may well be misunderstanding on the guess the context interweb.

As is my point, you don't view his posts with unbiased scrutiny; which is the best test of whether the ideas within are literate.


Cognitive bias appears to preclude possibilities other than cognitive bias being behind all comprehension.

You are well fucked. :blink:

Congitive bias appears to be the only thing present between you guys, 'oh look that guy dislikes "the man" so I will agree with him and insult those who do not' Bravo, sheeple.


I also suffer from cognative bias

another cross one must bear

Snip;

Curse of knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge) When better-informed people find it extremely difficult to think about problems from the perspective of lesser-informed people.:killingme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#cite_note-29)

Stephen

do i really have to trawl back and get the questions and copy paste or retype the same answers JUST so you can jet some jollies ...I dont mind but.........

You sure do.

Yes the Curse of Knowledge is a thing, but no it does not apply in this case.

With any luck you should still be able to remeber what your answers were, as they should not have changed.


I thought the videos were posted to offer a shared point of reference with which to start further and shared understanding of the issues. Mind you, I thought that was implied.

Funny, I don't read what Croc post in a negative light. Projection, cough cough.

May well have been, but like I said, discussion on them was abandoned in favor of insulting those who do not share your opinion... Not really a way to go about sharing understanding is it :killingme

He thinks we are all enslaved by the govt; how is that not a negative viewpoint to have?


see my previous post. Sorry dude, I don't do idiots. On your way now.

Ah when confronted with logic the sheeple retreats behind a thin veil of insults.

[Brian d marge]

fixed that for ya.

not all the time they aint ...just at lunch times and meetings ......

[mashman]

He' one of those what thinks he will be safe from negative light as long as he keeps his eyes squeezed tight. :yes:

Ooo, that rhymed too. I have a different theory... but I'd hate to label him :laugh:

[bogan]

He' one of those what thinks he will be safe from negative light as long as he keeps his eyes squeezed tight. :yes:

So your post was viewing things in a negative light then? Seems mashy has problems with english too then.

Nah, I'm just smart enough to put on the welding helmet of knowledge before viewing the incandescence of reality.

To bring it back from abstract insults though, tell me why it would be such a bad thing to be enslaved to a system which provides us with so much?

[mashman]

As is my point, you don't view his posts with unbiased scrutiny; which is the best test of whether the ideas within are literate.

Now you're telling me how I arrive at conclusions? Gold! I've had an annoying itch in my arse recently, but didn't realise it was an attempted etheric attempt at possession. At least lube yourself properly man.



May well have been, but like I said, discussion on them was abandoned in favor of insulting those who do not share your opinion... Not really a way to go about sharing understanding is it :killingme

He thinks we are all enslaved by the govt; how is that not a negative viewpoint to have?

Oh you were a part of that... more so by not engaging through the media supplied than any sticks n stones. Pot Kettle@sharing understanding.

You're asking me to get inside his head based of his posts? Ok, I'll have a go. He knows that we are enslaved by our govt. That's positive. Likely why he offers up links that offer information to back that view. I've read and watched different videos, yet have come to the same conclusion. You could too... if you wanted to. Smoke, fire, and a history of it.

[mashman]

not all the time they aint ...just at lunch times and meetings ......

:laugh: one has to get through the day.

[Brian d marge]

As is my point, you don't view his posts with unbiased scrutiny; which is the best test of whether the ideas within are literate.



Congitive bias appears to be the only thing present between you guys, 'oh look that guy dislikes "the man" so I will agree with him and insult those who do not' Bravo, sheeple.



You sure do.

Yes the Curse of Knowledge is a thing, but no it does not apply in this case.

With any luck you should still be able to remeber what your answers were, as they should not have changed.



May well have been, but like I said, discussion on them was abandoned in favor of insulting those who do not share your opinion... Not really a way to go about sharing understanding is it :killingme

He thinks we are all enslaved by the govt; how is that not a negative viewpoint to have?



Ah when confronted with logic the sheeple retreats behind a thin veil of insults.

must resist ,,,must resist

why Sir does the drill bit glow red when i try to drill 304 stainless ...........

When , you understand about the drill bit , then your questions will become relevant

until then , if you think the posts are ill informed , show me ..Im all ears and willing to learn


Stephen

oh by the way remember has 2 "M"S in it but dont worry I still understood ...and Im not sure you understand cognitive bias ...might want to google that

[Scuba_Steve]

To bring it back from abstract insults though, tell me why it would be such a bad thing to be enslaved to a system which provides us with so much?

Because some of us like to think for ourselves & like to be free... some, like yourself obviously, do not; horses for courses, or each to their own type shit. Fuck there's even some that like to be enslaved in the system within the system i.e. are career prisoners

To that end "tell me why it would be such a bad thing to be enslaved to a system [prison] which provides with so much?"... For all intents & purposes it's the same thing on a different level

[bogan]

Now you're telling me how I arrive at conclusions? Gold! I've had an annoying itch in my arse recently, but didn't realise it was an attempted etheric attempt at possession. At least lube yourself properly man.



Oh you were a part of that... more so by not engaging through the media supplied than any sticks n stones. Pot Kettle@sharing understanding.

You're asking me to get inside his head based of his posts? Ok, I'll have a go. He knows that we are enslaved by our govt. That's positive. Likely why he offers up links that offer information to back that view. I've read and watched different videos, yet have come to the same conclusion. You could too... if you wanted to. Smoke, fire, and a history of it.

Yes, is your bias not obvious to yourself? Guess that is the problem with stupid worlders, they are often too stupid to recognise it.

Being enslaved by the govt is a positive? I would have considered it to be a negative, but I guess each to their own. Though that is at odds with most of your posts complaining about it though.


must resist ,,,must resist

why Sir does the drill bit glow red when i try to drill 304 stainless ...........

When , you understand about the drill bit , then your questions will become relevant

until then , if you think the posts are ill informed , show me ..Im all ears and willing to learn


Stephen

oh by the way remember has 2 "M"S in it but dont worry I still understood ...and Im not sure you understand cognitive bias ...might want to google that

Talking about drill bits is your idea of a straight answer? I can humor you if you like though. If you're getting a red glow it is because you're a hamfisted buffoon; you'll see signs well before that like if the cutting fluid starts smoking too vigourously you should back off the pressure and change the speed down, and check drill sharpness before resuming.

Might want to back up your vague insults and proclaimations with things of substance instead of vague directions to google; just saying.


Because some of us like to think for ourselves & like to be free... some, like yourself obviously, do not; horses for courses, or each to their own type shit. Fuck there's even some that like to be enslaved in the system within the system i.e. are career prisoners

To that end "tell me why it would be such a bad thing to be enslaved to a system [prison] which provides with so much?"... For all intents & purposes it's the same thing on a different level

So what you are saying, is that any reasonable person would interpret the idea of us all being enslaved to the govt as a negative thing (viewpoint)?

And why do you think I do not like to think for myself or like to be free?

It would be bad (a negative thing) because being in a prison greatly limits our potential, and our happiness.

[mashman]

Yes, is your bias not obvious to yourself? Guess that is the problem with stupid worlders, they are often too stupid to recognise it.

Being enslaved by the govt is a positive? I would have considered it to be a negative, but I guess each to their own. Though that is at odds with most of your posts complaining about it though.


Coming to a conclusion will always require bias. I'm comfortable with my decisions.

The knowing is. So you admit that you were projecting. At least you know where your bias stems from.

[bogan]

Coming to a conclusion will always require bias. I'm comfortable with my decisions.

The knowing is. So you admit that you were projecting. At least you know where your bias stems from.

Wrong, I can conclude the cup on my desk cup contains 78% water, there is no bias in that. Just an impartial examination of the reality; it is the key to understanding what is, do you not meditate?

Of course the knowing would be positive, if it were the case; but it simply isn't. If you were faced with a choice between two realities, one in which you were enslaved and one in which you were not; any reasonable person would choose the one in which they were not. Yet by 'knowing' the govt enslaves us, you are choosing the one in which you are enslaved, not by the govt, but by your own mind.

Lets try a thought experiment, try to list the three biggest points of enslavement our govt puts upon us.

[Brian d marge]

Snip
Talking about drill bits is your idea of a straight answer? I can humor you if you like though. If you're getting a red glow it is because you're a hamfisted buffoon; you'll see signs well before that like if the cutting fluid starts smoking too vigourously you should back off the pressure and change the speed down, and check drill sharpness before resuming.

it was my attempt to use some kind of an analogy you might understand .... and ya didnt even check the bit included angle ......

Now back on topic

If you are looking for a yes no answer , along the lines of "do I hate jews" , well take your boxing gloves away from me , don’t come near me with your prejudices,

but If you are looking for an answer along the line of " why do you think the Govn enslaves US ( pun intended) , ?

I will give you an answer. but he is something for u to think about before asking the question,,,,,

Have you never asked yourself why , student loans or acc , or the police charging for services came into being ....?

have you ever thought that there might be more to life than the hours of 9 to 5 ?

Stephen

oh and vigorously was spelt wrong but dont worry I understood .....

[Brian d marge]

Wrong, I can conclude the cup on my desk cup contains 78% water, there is no bias in that. Just an impartial examination of the reality; it is the key to understanding what is, do you not meditate?

Of course the knowing would be positive, if it were the case; but it simply isn't. If you were faced with a choice between two realities, one in which you were enslaved and one in which you were not; any reasonable person would choose the one in which they were not. Yet by 'knowing' the govt enslaves us, you are choosing the one in which you are enslaved, not by the govt, but by your own mind.

Lets try a thought experiment, try to list the three biggest points of enslavement our govt puts upon us.

try and not pay a tax

try and not get social security number ...

try and not go to school

try not using money ....

theres 4 just off the bat ......

the first part of freedom is knowledge, Some still think the wealth will trickle down ......


Stephen

[mstriumph]

.............................. tell me why it would be such a bad thing to be enslaved to a system which provides us with so much?

:facepalm: I expect that turkeys ask the same question on the countdown to thanksgiving.....

[mashman]

Wrong, I can conclude the cup on my desk cup contains 78% water, there is no bias in that. Just an impartial examination of the reality; it is the key to understanding what is, do you not meditate?

Of course the knowing would be positive, if it were the case; but it simply isn't. If you were faced with a choice between two realities, one in which you were enslaved and one in which you were not; any reasonable person would choose the one in which they were not. Yet by 'knowing' the govt enslaves us, you are choosing the one in which you are enslaved, not by the govt, but by your own mind.

Lets try a thought experiment, try to list the three biggest points of enslavement our govt puts upon us.

Logical parallel <_< No, I don't meditate.

You say isn't, I say is. I doubt that that sort of thing fills his every waking hour... and even if it does, he seems to have a damned fine handle on it.

Let's not.

[bogan]

but If you are looking for an answer along the line of " why do you think the Govn enslaves US ( pun intended) , ?

I will give you an answer. but he is something for u to think about before asking the question,,,,,

Have you never asked yourself why , student loans or acc , or the police charging for services came into being ....?

have you ever thought that there might be more to life than the hours of 9 to 5 ?

That would be good.

Yes, I have.

Yes, so much more.


try and not pay a tax

try and not get social security number ...

try and not go to school

try not using money ....

theres 4 just off the bat ......

the first part of freedom is knowledge, Some still think the wealth will trickle down ......

These are not govt enslavement, these are just your mind enslaving you to useless concepts. Tax, SSN and money only have the value which you assign them. Education, that is a legit issue, but I'll wait for two more before addressing them all.


:facepalm: I expect that turkeys ask the same question on the countdown to thanksgiving.....

Turkey's are not sapient, so I'd expect quite the opposite.

[bogan]

Logical parallel <_< No, I don't meditate.

You say isn't, I say is. I doubt that that sort of thing fills his every waking hour... and even if it does, he seems to have a damned fine handle on it.

Let's not.

You should try it, it is a good way to examine your own self and its bias'.

I say isn't, and ask you to provide reasons to back up your is. You say lets not; thus refusing to back up your own opinion. This is why I say it is your mind that enslave you, seek enlightenment and shared understanding with me, break free of your shackles :banana:

[mashman]

You should try it, it is a good way to examine your own self and its bias'.

I say isn't, and ask you to provide reasons to back up your is. You say lets not; thus refusing to back up your own opinion. This is why I say it is your mind that enslave you, seek enlightenment and shared understanding with me, break free of your shackles :banana:

Awesome assumption.

I gave you an answer for why I see his outlook as positive. I said let's not for my reasons. Refusing to back myself up was not on the list.

However, if it makes you feel any better, not being arsed was No 1.

[bogan]

Awesome assumption.

I gave you an answer for why I see his outlook as positive. I said let's not for my reasons. refusing to back myself up was not on the list.

It's not an assumption as it has worked for me.

But you answer is only valid if your reasons are, so refusing to back yourself up is now on the list.

[mashman]

It's not an assumption as it has worked for me.

But you answer is only valid if your reasons are, so refusing to back yourself up is now on the list.

Spoken like a true conservative.

The answer came before your addendum, it stands in its own right and needs no further examination. Trust me, I know why I wrote what I wrote.

[bogan]

Spoken like a true conservative.

The answer came before your addendum, it stands in its own right and needs no further examination. Trust me, I know why I wrote what I wrote.

Spoken like one who knows the self irrespective of such labels.

But if the govt does not enslave us, thinking that they do can only be considered a negative viewpoint. Hence the second part of my interpretation and question. Thus it is not projection as you claimed, but simply the realities of the situation.
That answer stands in its own right, and can only be shown to be wrong if you could show the govt enslaves us. Which you refuse to do.

[mashman]

Spoken like one who knows the self irrespective of such labels.

But if the govt does not enslave us, thinking that they do can only be considered a negative viewpoint. Hence the second part of my interpretation and question. Thus it is not projection as you claimed, but simply the realities of the situation.
That answer stands in its own right, and can only be shown to be wrong if you could show the govt enslaves us. Which you refuse to do.

lol. Rough around the edges but with stars in my eyes.

It's a piece of knowledge.
There are plenty of threads containing plenty of information on the subject. I see no reason to put up any more information when the subject has already been amply covered.

[Brian d marge]

hurry up we need another two before he replies and i get too pissed

[bogan]

lol. Rough around the edges but with stars in my eyes.

It's a piece of knowledge.
There are plenty of threads containing plenty of information on the subject. I see no reason to put up any more information when the subject has already been amply covered.

So you do claim it has been shown the govt enslaves us?

[bogan]

hurry up we need another two before he replies and i get too pissed

That was two more legit issues for you to provide. In addition to those other points you were working on.

[Brian d marge]

That would be good.

Yes, I have.

Yes, so much more.



These are not govt enslavement, these are just your mind enslaving you to useless concepts. Tax, SSN and money only have the value which you assign them. Education, that is a legit issue, but I'll wait for two more before addressing them all.



Turkey's are not sapient, so I'd expect quite the opposite.
theres me thinking someone else had to do it
my bad
taxes
money
education

my big one

sorry frieudian slip

my big issue , . . interest

as in interest on loans

one more . . . . conscription and or military rule in times of disaster or percieved disaster

an electorial system designed not to give freedom of expression to the people whom need it the most

ok . . . . go

btw some musilim cities limited profit and taxes of business other cultures had debt free money . . ,

just added that to sway your cognitive bias

[bogan]

theres me thinking someone else had to do it
my bad
taxes
money
education

my big one

sorry frieudian slip

my big issue , . . interest

as in interest on loans

one more . . . . conscription and or military rule in times of disaster or percieved disaster

an electorial system designed not to give freedom of expression to the people whom need it the most

ok . . . . go

btw some musilim cities limited profit and taxes of business other cultures had debt free money . . ,

just added that to sway your cognitive bias

I've already said taxes and money are not points of slavery. Money is simply a system of barter, a concept, if you feel enslaved by this it is your own mind doing it; same with taxes. Interest is not valid either as nobody is forced to get a loan in the first place. Conscription? when was the last time anyone was conscripted? Electoral system, nope, not having things run the way you would like does not constitute slavery by the govt; but if you look at it too negatively then your mind does enslave you to it.

So it is still only mandatory Education on the list.

[Scuba_Steve]

So what you are saying, is that any reasonable person would interpret the idea of us all being enslaved to the govt as a negative thing (viewpoint)?

And why do you think I do not like to think for myself or like to be free?

It would be bad (a negative thing) because being in a prison greatly limits our potential, and our happiness.

reckon so

Because of your blindness/willingness to "tow the company line without question" & your initial question of "why is it so bad to be enslaved"

So same as being enslaved by a govt... again same concept different level

[mashman]

So you do claim it has been shown the govt enslaves us?

Yes, there is more than enough evidence there to support that conclusion.

[bogan]

reckon so

Because of your blindness/willingness to "tow the company line without question" & your initial question of "why is it so bad to be enslaved"

So same as being enslaved by a govt... again same concept different level

I agree.

I have ample justification for 'towing the company line' and back up my viewpoint far more often than those who oppose it (see below). The question was just that, a question, to ensure we are on the same page to start with as someone was saying it wasn't a negative thing.

Indeed.


Yes, there is more than enough evidence there to support that conclusion.

Then where is it? Will you provide any to back yourself up, or continue the evasion?

[Woodman]

Yes, there is more than enough evidence there to support that conclusion.

Like what?

[Katman]

I agree.

I have ample justification for 'towing the company line' and back up my viewpoint far more often than those who oppose it (see below).

You have never backed up your viewpoint.

All you ever do is ask if stuff is peer reviewed.

You don't seem to have a mind of your own.

[bogan]

You have never backed up your viewpoint.

All you ever do is ask if stuff is peer reviewed.

You don't seem to have a mind of your own.

Try me.

Which viewpoint would you like me to back up?

[Katman]

Try me.

Which viewpoint would you like me to back up?

Why do you dismiss the presence of nano thermite in the WTC dust samples?

[Woodman]

You have never backed up your viewpoint.

All you ever do is ask if stuff is peer reviewed.

You don't seem to have a mind of your own.

Isn't having something thrashed out by peer review and coming to a conclusion based on all evidence better than using just one mind forming at best an opinion?

[mashman]

Then where is it? Will you provide any to back yourself up, or continue the evasion?


Like what?

Dunno, I just make this stuff up as I go along.

[bogan]

Why do you dismiss the presence of nano thermite in the WTC dust samples?

Because I have seen no evidence of its presence.

So what you are really asking is why is my viewpoint controlled by the evidence? The answer to that is simple, it is the way of science.

[bogan]

Dunno, I just make this stuff up as I go along.

And it shows.

[bogan]

Isn't having something thrashed out by peer review and coming to a conclusion based on all evidence better than using just one mind forming at best an opinion?

Depends what answer you want I guess... :facepalm:

[Katman]

Because I have seen no evidence of its presence.


Quite simply because you refuse to view the evidence.

You're like NIST claiming they found no evidence of explosives when they openly admit they didn't look for any evidence of explosives.

[mashman]

Isn't having something thrashed out by peer review and coming to a conclusion based on all evidence better than using just one mind forming at best an opinion?

Yes... but I think the point has been made that the conclusion made was not done so with all of the evidence taken into account. Eye witnesses and the respected in their specialist field have decided this, not one mind (depending on viewpoint that may well be seen as wrong), but from many. You seem to be convinced that what is known is all that there is to know on the subject. Fair enough.

[mashman]

And it shows.

Pot Kettle...

[bogan]

Quite simply because you refuse to view the evidence.

You're like NIST claiming they found no evidence of explosives when they openly admit they didn't look for any evidence of explosives.

Post your best evidence then.

[Katman]

Post your best evidence then.

Go look for it yourself - it's not hard to find.

[bogan]

Go look for it yourself.

So you still have nothing then. Thought so.

To expand on that in the original context. The idea that you form a conclusion (or are given one) then go look for the evidence until you are convinced of its veracity is most unscientific. It shows massive bias and close-mindedness. That is why I back my conclusions up with evidence along with the conclusion; so debates of substance can be had. That is why the scientific community places so much importance on peer reviewed articles. And that is why I'm right so often :shifty:

[Katman]

So you still have nothing then. Thought so.


So you're still a lazy cunt then. Thought so.

[bogan]

So you're still a lazy cunt then. Thought so.

And there it is; the evasion of my main point. You guys just make it too easy sometimes.

[Katman]

And there it is; the evasion of my main point. You guys just make it too easy sometimes.

Here's an idea, you could watch that film '9/11 The Anatomy of a Great Deception' with an open mind and then offer your viewpoint on the evidence presented therein.

But you won't, because you're too frightened that you might have to re-evaluate your viewpoint.

[bogan]

Here's an idea, you could watch that film '9/11 The Anatomy of a Great Deception' with an open mind and then offer your viewpoint on the evidence presented therein.

But you won't, because you're too frightened that you might have to re-evaluate your viewpoint.

That or I have better things to do than be indoctrinated.

Still, funny how your accusation of me never being able to back myself up so quickly ended with you refusing to back yourself up :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

What's so great about this peer reviewed stuff???
Workmate the other day pointed out a recent peer reviewed claim which was recently shown to be total shit, so much so the guy who wrote it has admitted he "made it up with no evidence" yet it was peer reviewed & published as "correct"... Apparently this isn't the 1st or only time it's happened either
I'll have to ask the workmate what/who it was I didn't pay too much attention as it was more his interest than mine.

And in a slightly related but different note; maybee those "peer reviewed" articles aren't so peer reviewed afterall
Having an authentic name, representing a real research institution, and offering actual scientific results are apparently not required for publication in many open access journals, Science has found. A completely invented scientist—“Ocorrafoo Cobange”—who worked at a fabricated institution—“the Wassee Institute of Medicine in Asmara”—was able to get the same terribly faked paper accepted for publication in 157 journals. (http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37798/title/Fake-Paper-Exposes-Failed-Peer-Review/)

[Katman]

That or I have better things to do than be indoctrinated.


I'm sticking with the 'too frightened' option.

[mashman]

And there it is; the evasion of my main point. You guys just make it too easy sometimes.

No, you keep trying to frame the debate and when that fails because someone passes you something for your consideration, you dismiss it by moving the goalposts.

So, just to clear it up, unless there is evidence to your satisfaction i.e. standard, you simply will not watch or read any material put before you?

[bogan]

What's so great about this peer reviewed stuff???
Workmate the other day pointed out a recent peer reviewed claim which was recently shown to be total shit, so much so the guy who wrote it has admitted he "made it up with no evidence" yet it was peer reviewed & published as "correct"... Apparently this isn't the 1st or only time it's happened either
I'll have to ask the workmate what/who it was I didn't pay too much attention as it was more his interest than mine.

And in a slightly related but different note; maybee those "peer reviewed" articles aren't so peer reviewed afterall
Having an authentic name, representing a real research institution, and offering actual scientific results are apparently not required for publication in many open access journals, Science has found. A completely invented scientist—“Ocorrafoo Cobange”—who worked at a fabricated institution—“the Wassee Institute of Medicine in Asmara”—was able to get the same terribly faked paper accepted for publication in 157 journals. (http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37798/title/Fake-Paper-Exposes-Failed-Peer-Review/)

How was it shown to be total shit?

Did somebody watch a youtube about the topic? Or was it peer reviewed (the process continues after publication you know)

[bogan]

I'm sticking with the 'too frightened' option.

Whatever helps your confirmation bias I guess.


So, just to clear it up, unless there is evidence to your satisfaction i.e. standard, you simply will not watch or read any material put before you?

Not just to my standard, to the scientific standard. That's for when it is stated as proven fact, or requires expert analysis. If the evidence is self evident from the material, ie, not accompanied by opinionated drivel, then I shall watch or read it.

[mashman]

(the process continues after publication you know)

That is a truly scarey thing.

[Katman]

If the evidence is self evident from the material, ie, not accompanied by opinionated drivel, then I shall watch or read it.

Bullshit.

Your mind is as closed as Ed's.

[mashman]

Not just to my standard, to the scientific standard. That's for when it is stated as proven fact, or requires expert analysis. If the evidence is self evident from the material, ie, not accompanied by opinionated drivel, then I shall watch or read it.

So you've read all of the peer reviewed documentation on the 9/11 truth site then?

[bogan]

That is a truly scarey thing.

In what way?


Bullshit.

Your mind is as closed as Ed's.

Then post some and prove it.


So you've read all of the peer reviewed documentation on the 9/11 truth site then?

I'm not sure, post me some links of ones you think I may have missed...

[flyingcrocodile46]

So you still have nothing then. Thought so.

To expand on that in the original context. The idea that you form a conclusion (or are given one) then go look for the evidence until you are convinced of its veracity is most unscientific. It shows massive bias and close-mindedness. That is why I back my conclusions up with evidence along with the conclusion; so debates of substance can be had. That is why the scientific community places so much importance on peer reviewed articles. And that is why I'm right so often :shifty:


You are spouting self serving shit again. You truly are full of it.

You have repeatedly asked for three (or was it 4) examples of how people are enslaved to the govt. The mere act of asking for more than one example is both evidence of your bias against accepting such examples and an involuntary admission that you know it to be true.

Only one example is needed to demonstrate the truth. Yet you insist on three. According to that sort of disingenuous twaddle, you would deny that a 19th century African American slave was a slave because he couldn't articulate more than "cause massa says so".

Put simply, your self deception and dishonesty is so overwhelming that your bias demands three examples because you can think of two yourself.


This blatantly dishonest approach to debating discourages me from wasting any time with argumentative shitheads like you.