sparky/gadget whizzes.. little help pls?

[bugjuice]

Can I help you? I'm Beanman!! so no.. however...
sorry, I read that title, and that's all I can think of at the moment..

anyway, on-topic - gots me an idea. But I'm not quite in the right mindset about a few bits (cos my mind is filled with other stuff).

What I want is a push button. That runs a wee tiny motor (what's the strongest smallest motor available? without spending my annual salary), for a set period of say, 5 seconds (time will depend on how fast the motor spins etc)..?

any clues on how I can do it?? I have an idea for something, but I just want to see if the electrics are easy enough to sus before I start fabricating stuff (and by 'fabricating', I mean bodging)

ta all, love ya work

[Lou Girardin]

Can I help you? I'm Beanman!! so no.. however...
sorry, I read that title, and that's all I can think of at the moment..

anyway, on-topic - gots me an idea. But I'm not quite in the right mindset about a few bits (cos my mind is filled with other stuff).

What I want is a push button. That runs a wee tiny motor (what's the strongest smallest motor available? without spending my annual salary), for a set period of say, 5 seconds (time will depend on how fast the motor spins etc)..?

any clues on how I can do it?? I have an idea for something, but I just want to see if the electrics are easy enough to sus before I start fabricating stuff (and by 'fabricating', I mean bodging)

ta all, love ya work


The servos used to adjust the shocks on jap import cars are smallish, about 60 mm diameter and 10 mm thick.
Going to 'adjust' your number plate remotely?

[skelstar]

You want to change something from one position to the next?

If it were to move a plate like device from one pos to another then you could use a servo from a modelcrafts shop ie like a remote control plane...

[bungbung]

It'll be no problem to make a push button trip a relay for a set period of time (eg 5 secs) using a 555 timer.

[bugjuice]

The servos used to adjust the shocks on jap import cars are smallish, about 60 mm diameter and 10 mm thick.
Going to 'adjust' your number plate remotely?
I had a dog, and it's name was...........



I have fabricated a design in mind which should look quite 'trick' when it's finished, that's if I can finalise it in my nuggin, then in a template. Should be good. Just need the electrics to work right.

Had thought about a servo from a radio set (having played with stuff like that before), but I don't know if it'd have the length/range I need, and strength for it's size. Might..

The motor bit isn't the biggest problem. It's the timing of it (relay?), and making it go one way with a push, then the other way with another push

[skelstar]

What about a solenoid? Just apply 12VDC to it and it moves in. Unless you want a 'trick' sci-fi movie like feature a plain old cetral locking mechanism would be good. hide it away under the seat with an arm coming out to the 'thing you want to move'...

[bugjuice]

solenoid? how big are they? (brain fart, please excuse)
I'm wanting to keep it tiny, neat, small, light and tidy, and most importantly - avoid the option of cutting into the tail to fit stuff.. So it's ideally gonna be fairly small. It'll be housed too, but damp could be an issue

[enigma51]

You need to give more info bug if you want to the do some lift and hold thing then maybe you should have the motor lift it and once it gets to the top a magnet pulls a hook towards the lets say plate which then turn the power off to the motor and when you turn the swith to the off position it lets go of the magnet which then lets go of the plate.

[bugjuice]

You need to give more info bug if you want to the do some lift and hold thing then maybe you should have the motor lift it and once it gets to the top a magnet pulls a hook towards the lets say plate which then turn the power off to the motor and when you turn the swith to the off position it lets go of the magnet which then lets go of the plate.
the motor is going to just wind the plate back. Mechanically, it'll fold and hold (set it, and forget it!!!)
the motor won't have too much to strain about (hopefully)

[enigma51]

Just a note but im sure you have though about it already. You want it to swing backwards so that the number are showing up. The wind will help the motor out ie less work for the motor.

[2much]

What about the motor and setup out of a car with pop-up headlights? Could be pretty cheap from a wreckers out of an old integra or something similar.... not sure of the size tho.

[sAsLEX]

It'll be no problem to make a push button trip a relay for a set period of time (eg 5 secs) using a 555 timer.

what he said, they are fairly simple to use as well which is always handy and cost bugger all

[bugjuice]

Just a note but im sure you have though about it already. You want it to swing backwards so that the number are showing up. The wind will help the motor out ie less work for the motor.
yeah, that's the idea. It's more out of design than force-help for the motor. It's just a bonus. And, it won't be swinging :msn-wink:


What about the motor and setup out of a car with pop-up headlights? Could be pretty cheap from a wreckers out of an old integra or something similar.... not sure of the size tho.
pop-up headlight mechanics are often huge. Way bigger than what I've got in mind, and can be a little heavy for some. Plus, it'd mean either a fair bit of cutting around the tail (really not doing that) or some big ugle thing under the tail (ain't gonna be pretty), so altho it'd be a logical approach, it doesn't serve what I'm after.. thanx for the input tho

[SPORK]

Take a look here, this might be usefull. Not sure though...

http://www.cardomain.com/shoptype/Actuators

[bugjuice]

It'll be no problem to make a push button trip a relay for a set period of time (eg 5 secs) using a 555 timer.
what he said, they are fairly simple to use as well which is always handy and cost bugger allwhat he said, they are fairly simple to use as well which is always handy and cost bugger all
what about making it go one way, then go the other on the next push?

[bugjuice]

Take a look here, this might be usefull. Not sure though...

http://www.cardomain.com/shoptype/Actuators
thanx, but not enough range..
something on there has given me an idea about an automatic car ariel tho.. hmmmm...

[enigma51]

thanx, but not enough range..
something on there has given me an idea about an automatic car ariel tho.. hmmmm...
Those motors are usual big

[SPORK]

Sooo, any chance of you whipping up some basic plans for what you're going to do, so people have a good idea on how to help ya?

[skelstar]

Solenoid: http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/432e42140584eaa4273fc0a87f9906e7/Product/View/P9010

Would be about 5cm x 2cm x I dont know. Actuator moves about 1-2cm maybe? You would use a #8wire/lever arm solution so you can relocate into a seat compartment...hidden like.

[bugjuice]

Those motors are usual big
yeah, that's what I'm thinking tho.. but the mechanics might help, or clear up a couple of things.. I'm thinking the motor is on a worm-wind, then the plate itself is mounted to a up-side-down T bar, and that's on the worm, then the plate winds itself back into place

[enigma51]

Skelstars idea might work the best I think

[bugjuice]

Sooo, any chance of you whipping up some basic plans for what you're going to do, so people have a good idea on how to help ya?
I'll put some basic drawings up. I kinda wanted to keep it shhhhh until it's revieled, but I'm starting to not care too much about that now.. Let me final some plans (got an hour long meeting tomorrow, so probably then), and post then I'll post 'em up


Solenoid: http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/432e42140584eaa4273fc0a87f9906e7/Product/View/P9010

Would be about 5cm x 2cm x I dont know. Actuator moves about 1-2cm maybe? You would use a #8wire/lever arm solution so you can relocate into a seat compartment...hidden like.
thanx for that, but the movement needs to be around 150mm..

[skelstar]

Ok, I must be bored but this is what im thinking...(pic below).

If you use a lever then the arm doesnt have to move as far. The more you shorten the lever on the solenoid side the more the other side moves (obvioulsy). Infact you could do away with the hinge on teh left altogether.

[bugjuice]

Ok, I must be bored but this is what im thinking...(pic below).

If you use a lever then the arm doesnt have to move as far. The more you shorten the lever on the solenoid side the more the other side moves (obvioulsy). Infact you could do away with the hinge on teh left altogether.
nice work.. almost got the angle of the undertail spot on too!
not quite what I was thinking tho, and that would mean cutting into the tail, which I want to avoid.

I'm gonna draw/sketch up some ideas and figure out the logics etc, then I'll CAD it and post it tomorrow..

[aff-man]

I gots me a few idea's on how to do it. As for the push button thing a simple flip-flop circut is what you want easy to make easy to use.

As for moving the plate a simple geared motor with a cut of switch mounted on it will do the trick.

Parts required: Geared motor (really small i have one that like 10mm*20mm)
cut out switch * 2
flip flop
diodes
couple gears.

This all depends on the plate being mounted on a fixed shaft with a gear. There are fancier ways to do this electronically (i.e. without the cut off switched) but it will be more complicated and stuff.

Give me a yell if ya want to know more (gots me a few other idea's)

[sAsLEX]

I gots me a few idea's on how to do it. As for the push button thing a simple flip-flop circut is what you want easy to make easy to use.

As for moving the plate a simple geared motor with a cut of switch mounted on it will do the trick.

Parts required: Geared motor (really small i have one that like 10mm*20mm)
cut out switch * 2
flip flop
diodes
couple gears.

This all depends on the plate being mounted on a fixed shaft with a gear. There are fancier ways to do this electronically (i.e. without the cut off switched) but it will be more complicated and stuff.

Give me a yell if ya want to know more (gots me a few other idea's)

yeah you could use a stepper motor to avoid the use of the contacts if i am thinking about it the same as you

[aff-man]

yeah you could use a stepper motor to avoid the use of the contacts if i am thinking about it the same as you

Naaa cause then you need a stepper motor and driver and you're looking at $100+ for a cheap one (good old penis smith). Whereas geared motors + 2 kill switches are like maybe $20 on the outside and then diodes are cents a piece and it'll be easier to hook up.

But if you got the time and money stepper motors would do the trick.

Something like this

[froggyfrenchman]

Hmmmmm, im workn on something similar... will reveal at completion

[aff-man]

Hmmmmm, im workn on something similar... will reveal at completion

I edited my post above to include design.
Need to add a few resistors and stuff that is just basic painshop hahahah

I'm gonna patent it i promise... or not hahahhahahahah

[skelstar]

I edited my post above to include design.
Need to add a few resistors and stuff that is just basic painshop hahahah
I'm gonna patent it i promise... or not hahahhahahahah
Would be funny if you didnt include switch debouncing :)...the plate would rattle up and down rapidly :).

[sAsLEX]

Naaa cause then you need a stepper motor and driver and you're looking at $100+ for a cheap one (good old penis smith). Whereas geared motors + 2 kill switches are like maybe $20 on the outside and then diodes are cents a piece and it'll be easier to hook up.

But if you got the time and money stepper motors would do the trick.

Something like this

bout 20 http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=YM2751&CATID=&keywords=stepper+motor&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=


will teach myself how the buggers work and whip up a control unit cant be hard

[skelstar]

bout 20 [url]http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=YM2751&CATID=&keywords=stepper+motor&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=[/urlwill teach myself how the buggers work and whip up a control unit cant be hard
Youll need to read up about PWM and stuff. Could use a 555 timer like has been previously suggested but to be honest while its a good solution it would be a little overkill.

[aff-man]

Would be funny if you didnt include switch debouncing :)...the plate would rattle up and down rapidly :).

Baaaa who needs switch debouncing we just have a low ratio motor so it basically "slams" the plate into the switch :eek: :eek: :wari:

But yeh i mean i could wip up something on protell that's got all the wasjigs and whonanny's but why bother.

was thinking about it and solanoids with a flip flop would be way easier. And if i remember correctly there are some awesome ones in car central locking systems.

[skelstar]

...But yeh i mean i could wip up something on protell that's got all the wasjigs and whonanny's but why bother....

Indeed. besides protel is shit slow on my computer at work. Still using 99SE...maybe thats the problem...or windows 2000 with only 256MB RAM :).

[sAsLEX]

Youll need to read up about PWM and stuff. Could use a 555 timer like has been previously suggested but to be honest while its a good solution it would be a little overkill.

yeah in fact I am currently a little involved trying to accuratly reproduce a nice sine wave using PWM in FPGAs (VHDL is so annoying!) mean I am little short of spare time.

Its more about giving the motor the right sequences and it might be possible with some simple memory elements but will ask some more knowledgeable people in at uni tomorrow

[aff-man]

Indeed. besides protel is shit slow on my computer at work. Still using 99SE...maybe thats the problem...or windows 2000 with only 256MB RAM :).

hahahah i'm suprised your computer hasn't commited suicide hahahaha

[skelstar]

yeah in fact I am currently a little involved trying to accuratly reproduce a nice sine wave using PWM in FPGAs (VHDL is so annoying!) mean I am little short of spare time.
Ive been lucky enough to avoid the bulk of FPGA stuff at work. I tend to stick to micros thank goodness. Even writing assembler is better than FPGA code.

[phaedrus]

anyone remember those corrugated plastic pictures that change when you tilt them?

if you use that idea you can reduce the time it takes to make the number plate vanish, or even better change at the touch of a button

it might be a little pricey though.

[scumdog]

anyone remember those corrugated plastic pictures that change when you tilt them?

if you use that idea you can reduce the time it takes to make the number plate vanish, or even better change at the touch of a button

it might be a little pricey though.

If you're going to that extent you may as well make a home-made number-plate!!

PS Phaedrus, did YOUR mum say you look handsome (on the Dunedin/South Otago thread) like campbelllukes mum did????????

[phaedrus]

If you're going to that extent you may as well make a home-made number-plate!!

PS Phaedrus, did YOUR mum say you look handsome (on the Dunedin/South Otago thread) like campbelllukes mum did????????
If it works the way I think it does, it needs to be designed into the number plate and it won't get affected by wind.

handsome? no, didn't hear her say that.

[bugjuice]

ok, so I sketched out a few designs of what I was thinking, but it's not going to be as easy as I first thought. The original design had a guide which the number plate slid back on, and that held it up. But two issues - firstly, after time, the plate where it's rubbing might fault somehow, and secondly, the wind could blow it about a bit when it's down so a 'stop' would have to be put there, but that could get in the way of the plate coming back down..

so the plate tilting would have to be mechanical some other way. That bit, I'm still going to figure out which is best. I know how I want the plate to move, and I will get it to move (that's the brief I've set for it), it's just figuring out how to make it do it, the lightest, smallest and tidiest possible.

if anyone can figure out my bad sketches, then go for it. I'll have to brain storm a little more, then I'll design something which is a bit more understandable

[myvice]

Why not cut the numberplate in 1/2 ? Maybe length ways and fold the bottom part over the top with your favourite message underneath?
There are two types of door lock actuator, one is a motor and gearbox, very common, and the other is a solenoid type.
I have the solenoid type one sitting on my toolbox if you want it, if you get a 3-wire door lock actuator you will get the little rods and mounts you need as well.
Hook it up to your hazed switch?
Or you could get a Stealth Plate cover that goes dark (black) when you kill the current to it.
Or you could keep the front wheel in the air.
Or... You could get a large automatic welding helmet visor and tune it to camera flashers.
Maybe a light sensor wired to a phosphorous grenade?
There is a VERY simple way of doing what you want to do but its not as much fun...

[skelstar]

Ok BJ this has been playing on my mind a bit. Heres my latest design. Now I dont know what the inside of your bike looks like but I think you should be able to do this with one hole in your bike.

Basically you would have the solenoid mounted inside the seat, attached to it would be a piece of cable that would pass over a 'cable rest' and go down through a hole and connect to the plate. Obvioulsy the further up the plate the more movement you would get out of the solenoid action.

[bugjuice]

Ok BJ this has been playing on my mind a bit. Heres my latest design. Now I dont know what the inside of your bike looks like but I think you should be able to do this with one hole in your bike.

Basically you would have the solenoid mounted inside the seat, attached to it would be a piece of cable that would pass over a 'cable rest' and go down through a hole and connect to the plate. Obvioulsy the further up the plate the more movement you would get out of the solenoid action.
good design, but it'd mean cutting into the tail section, which I'm not going to do. This design I want to be able to bolt on and off. I'm not going to keep changing it over, but I've made the decision that anything I do to the bike, I can reverse back to stock if I want/need to. So cutting is out.

It also doesn't have the movement I want. When it's 'hidden', it's got to be parallel to the undertail of the bike, and it can't 'flip' straight up, cos it'll hide the tail light and disturb the sexy lines of the back..

I have another idea brewing, which I'll sketch up soon, see if that'll work and see what comments are about it

thanx for the input tho ;)

[bugjuice]

k, this is really rough, and really not to scale, but this idea has been bouncing around in my head for a couple of days now.. The 'arms' would obviously be as thin and as small as poss. Probably chromed up would look nice, don't think coloured (except carbon fibre) wouldn't cut it really. Possibly the same grey as the frame..??

anyway....

[skelstar]

Looks cool. The only thing I can think of is that the further the plate moves up, the shallower the angle and the more force is required to pull the plate up.

[NhuanH]

you really don't do any work for [Insert Anonymous Telco here] do ya?

[skelstar]

I may have read the diagram wrong. Is the plate the thin black line bit? I assumed it was inside the holder the whole time.

[bugjuice]

you really don't do any work for [Insert my balls here] do ya?
yeah I do.. fukhoff.. I'm making myself look busy by doing this :finger:


I may have read the diagram wrong. Is the plate the thin black line bit? I assumed it was inside the holder the whole time.
yeah, you've got it right. The black line is meant to be the plate. The bottom of the plate pulling up when closed is the bit I need to think a bit harder on. The plate would be attached at the top and bottom, no real need for a frame of any sort. Was thinking of some sort of gear that kicks in when the plate is half way or more, to push the bottom up and hold it there

[skelstar]

Still reckon there could be issues. What about the plate being sprung? ie the plate would spring closed given the chance but there would be a little 'plunger' that would stop it until your 'switch' pulled the plunger out of the way and the plate would spring up *viola*. You would then have to stop to put the plate back down :).

[bugjuice]

cos that wouldn't be as cool as the plate sliding away like this..
nap.. I've set the brief for myself, now I must forefill..
thanx all the same tho ;)

[Ixion]

I think you're making it unnecessarily difficult by moving/swinging the plate. Plus inviting Mr Plod to examine the plate and ask "Wot's all this 'ere, then, attached to yer number plate.".

The only requirement is to conceal the number. Why not just have a hinged cover that is normally held up under the tail (at right angles to the plate). Release a little catch (just a trip wire will do) and the cover falls down under its own weight , covering the plate. Nothing at all attached to the plate to attract suspicion, the cover is normally concealed up under the tail (paint it the same colour as the bike and it'll be almost invisible) , and very simple and little to go wrong.

Not of course that I would ever condone making such a device. But I understand that this is a purely hypothetical exercise.


cover (in up position)
hinge
o---------------
|
| plate
|

:when the cover is unclipped it falls down covering teh palte


o
| | cover concealing plate
| |
| |
| |

[bugjuice]

I see what you're saying with that.
But I'm not making this to run from the cops or whatever. It's purely 'bling' stuff, cos I'm bored and want to try it out. If anyone wants to stop me and question it, then feel free. I haven't got anything to hide

With your design, to uncover the plate, I'd have to stop and reset it, wouldn't I? Plus the cover would obstruct the tail light while it's up and flap around when it's down..

[Ixion]

I see what you're saying with that.
But I'm not making this to run from the cops or whatever. It's purely 'bling' stuff, cos I'm bored and want to try it out. If anyone wants to stop me and question it, then feel free. I haven't got anything to hide

With your design, to uncover the plate, I'd have to stop and reset it, wouldn't I? Plus the cover would obstruct the tail light while it's up and flap around when it's down..

Ah , if it's not in the interests of "anonomity" then, yes, the deficiences become more manifest. You would indeed have to stop and reset it , and it would bounce against the plate (don't think it would flap , but it would bump ). Don't think it would obscure the light though, depends on how your tail is designed.

Such issues are of less import in the purpose which I conjectured. (ie, just hiding your number fast)

[avgas]

anyone remember those corrugated plastic pictures that change when you tilt them?

if you use that idea you can reduce the time it takes to make the number plate vanish, or even better change at the touch of a button

it might be a little pricey though.
Its funny as i have an electrical background....but i thought i read through and see if someone see's the same solution as me.
If you put something on the plate that difracts the light, it would effectively reflect any camera flash, but the plate would still be visiable through the thin layer. Something like the lense pattern of an OHP would do the trick.
This is what they currently use on all those 'super fast' cars around the show.
As for the PWM concept into a stepped motor.....would you have suffiecnt torque for limited size? Why not have a mechanical locking arm running off a 12v DC motor, as this would make the work of the plate returning to a stand still possition easier at high speeds.
If it doesnt need to come back a high speeds, set up a simple bistable solenoid latch. As u dont need the driving power of CPLD or Micro to work as a simple switch.

[pyrocam]

what. you guys havent learnt to ride with your foot over the plate yet?

edit:
or even better
a hinge at the top
and a sting that comes out near your handlebars. pull and it goes up.