Trademe Auctions

[The Stranger]

There is a new Honda Blackbird (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourer/auction-35609519.htm) for sale on trademe.

It has a start bid of $13,495 on it and no reserve.

So my question is this. If you place a bid on this bike and the auction closes at the $13,495.00 figure is the seller legally bound to sell?
Is an online auction such as this a legally binding contract?

As I see it there is offer and acceptance and intent to complete the transaction so it sould be binding.

[SPORK]

Yep, they have to.

Never had a bad trade on TM. Go for it, if you're interested?

[Waylander]

Depends on what the reserve is and if it meets it.

If it doesn't meet the reserve price that means that the seller can say no deal.

If it does go over reserve though then yea I think he does have to sell.

[kerryg]

Yep, they have to.

Never had a bad trade on TM. Go for it, if you're interested?


But then there's the law...and then there's the real world.

If the vendor changes his mind you may have to prosecute him to enforce the sale. The reality may well be that the costs and practicalities mean that unless the vendor caves in at the prospect of litigation you just have to walk away and chalk it down to experience.

It's one of the realities about buying on sites like TradeMe or privately through newspapers etc. You don't have the same safeguards that dealing with a reputable business provides, but you trade that off for the possibility of a bargain. You can't have it both ways.

And I HAVE had some bad experiences on TradeMe.

[TLDV8]

So my question is this. If you place a bid on this bike and the auction closes at the $13,495.00 figure is the seller legally bound to sell?
Is an online auction such as this a legally binding contract?


There is also the possibility the seller can push the Withdraw Auction button if the bids don't reach what they want...
>
Ok..i hadn't actually bothered following the link..it would appear the reserve is not met but could be infact be met with a bid of $13,495.

[Hammer]

There is a new Honda Blackbird (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports-tourer/auction-35609519.htm) for sale on trademe.

It has a start bid of $13,495 on it and no reserve.

So my question is this. If you place a bid on this bike and the auction closes at the $13,495.00 figure is the seller legally bound to sell?
Is an online auction such as this a legally binding contract?

As I see it there is offer and acceptance and intent to complete the transaction so it sould be binding.

This sure does smell odd!!!

[Zed]

So my question is this. If you place a bid on this bike and the auction closes at the $13,495.00 figure is the seller legally bound to sell?No, and you'll notice that TM is very up front about taking no responsability should the sale turn to custard:


From TM Website

2.2 At your own risk: Transactions and all other contact between you and other members are conducted entirely at your own risk. You agree that Trade Me takes no responsibility or liability for any misconduct of any of its members including, without limitation, members that have registered under false pretences or who attempt to defraud you. Trade Me gives no undertakings, representations, or warranties in relation to items sold or listed on the web site, including:

about ownership of any item;
as to the content, safety, description, worthiness, quality, or legality of the items that are listed on the web site;
as to the accuracy or truth of listings;
that any item will meet your requirements or expectations; or
about the ability of members to complete a transaction.
I see that auction closed at 9.00pm tonight and did not meet the reserve price! Sounds like a genuine sale to me, especially since the bike is available to view at a local bike shop. :corn:

[TwoSeven]

No, as far as I know a transaction only occurs if both parties indicate their intent to form one. Also, a contract is made if accepted by both parties. An offer can be made by either party (a fixed price sale is usually an offer made by the seller and an auction is usually an offer made by a potential buyer).

What that means in an auction is that when someone lists the bike, there is no transaction occuring until another part places a bid. A sales contract isnt made on the transaction until the seller makes an offer that the buyer accepts, or accepts an offer that the buyer has made.

As far as I know offering a bike for sale with or without the reserve only indicates a transaction is occuring. Since the seller is not making an offer, while everyone else is bidding on it, they do not have to sell the bike when the auction ends. At the end of the auction, they get the choice of making an offer to the highest bidder (thats when the contract will get formed). If they chose not to make an offer, then they dont sell the bike.


You have to watch how you make a transaction/offer. I think from memory, if I offered to buy your bikes for $10 in this forum and you agreed, that would be legally binding - even if made in jest. I'd have to check on that tho.

[Da Bird]

That Bird has been on Trade Me a while now. It was originally $15995, still $2,000 less than the "new" price and now the price has dropped to the $13495.00. I too think it is legit but go to Cyclespot to see for yourself.

It does seem strange that someone would buy a bike like this, put 0 kms on it and then try to re-sell it but it would appear to be a bit of a bargain at any rate. I even considered having a look at it but my one does the job for now.

BC.

[scumdog]

If you WILL fuck around with funny non-American bikes (specifically non H-D) then you CAN be expected to be burnt....
But don't let ME hold you back!!

[texmo]

Ha auction closed no bids....

[Sniper]

Its life, the auction may count as a contract or an agreement. But human nature can change very quickly.

[The Stranger]

No, as far as I know a transaction only occurs if both parties indicate their intent to form one. Also, a contract is made if accepted by both parties. An offer can be made by either party (a fixed price sale is usually an offer made by the seller and an auction is usually an offer made by a potential buyer).

What that means in an auction is that when someone lists the bike, there is no transaction occuring until another part places a bid. A sales contract isnt made on the transaction until the seller makes an offer that the buyer accepts, or accepts an offer that the buyer has made.

As far as I know offering a bike for sale with or without the reserve only indicates a transaction is occuring. Since the seller is not making an offer, while everyone else is bidding on it, they do not have to sell the bike when the auction ends. At the end of the auction, they get the choice of making an offer to the highest bidder (thats when the contract will get formed). If they chose not to make an offer, then they dont sell the bike.


You have to watch how you make a transaction/offer. I think from memory, if I offered to buy your bikes for $10 in this forum and you agreed, that would be legally binding - even if made in jest. I'd have to check on that tho.

Ok, thinking back to those contract law seminars many moons ago I recall that you are pretty well correct.

An auction, just like goods displayed in a shop are an invitation to treat. The offer must come from the buyer and acceptance from the seller before a contract can be formed.

I doubt the offer in jest would be acceptable as there would be no intent and anyway could probably be argued under the contractural mistakes act or the contractural remedies act.

[kerryg]

An auction, just like goods displayed in a shop are an invitation to treat. The offer must come from the buyer and acceptance from the seller before a contract can be formed.




I would have thought that offering an item for sale at auction, with the opening bid equalling the reserve, and the "reserve" explicitly meaning the price at which the vendor is willing to sell, clearly constitutes an offer by the vendor, and that a bidder who bids the reserve price or above clearly makes acceptance of that offer. My recollection is that to create a valid contract there must be 3 elements: the parties intend to create legal relations (obvious from the auction process), the parties are mutually bound by offer and acceptance (ditto) and that a consideration is exchanged (motorbike for money). Those 3 elements are surely present in an auction.

But I return to my earlier comments: if either party re-neges for whatever reason and reasonable negotiation fails, it then takes legal action to sort it out and that is often not practical. More often than not, in private sales like these, the bad guy wins. It is important to be prudent from the outset (inspect the item, deal with people with a decent reputation, get a VIR etc etc) rather to rely on legal remedies if things go AWOL

[Monsterbishi]

Gotta love Trademe, I bought some comfy front seats for my car, rails and seatbelt stalks included, for a whopping $2.50! Even better still, the guy literally lived 2 blocks away from me!

If you're keen on the bike, put in a bid, if it falls through afterwards, you've lost nothing, and the seller still has to pay for the listing/auction fee.

[lizardb0y]

So my question is this. If you place a bid on this bike and the auction closes at the $13,495.00 figure is the seller legally bound to sell?
Is an online auction such as this a legally binding contract?

The reality is that if they refuse to part with the bike you're stuffed. You can't force them to sell it. What'll happen is you post bad feedback, they'll probably go to TradeMe and ask for their listing fee back making up some story about you never emailing them and you both end up with "sale was not completed" notes in your feedback.

Chances are though, if they listed it at that price, no reserve, they'll probably sell it for that.